Arenanet's stance on Youtube content ID

Arenanet's stance on Youtube content ID

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Posted by: Shanaeri Rynale.6897

Shanaeri Rynale.6897

Over the last couple of days we’ve seen controversy erupt over youtube’s use of a content ID system which seems to flag and ‘hijack’ video content (such as reviews, live stream recordings and the like) which contains excepts from games.

The content creators then have to go through a dispute mechanism to try to reclaim the ownership of the content they created.

http://kotaku.com/youtube-copyright-chaos-continues-game-publishers-to-t-1481517758

A few games companies have come out and published their stance on it (such as blizzard,capcom and square enix) while others have adopted a ‘sort it out amongst yourselves’ approach

Since fan content creation (such as SPvP/livestreams etc) is such a key part of game awareness and community participation I’m wondering does Arenanet have a position on youtube’s content ID system and how content producers should go about resolving any content flagged up.

Note this isn’t a demand, calling out or anything like that just a player asking a question about an area of concern

Guild Leader of DVDF www.dvdf.org.uk since 2005

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

The change will also affect us players who have or had posted guild wars 2 copyright game play videos on you tube; channel.

What i’m worried about are the builds and the walk through guide videos.

I encourage Arena.net to comment on these changes.

http://www.tubefilter.com/2013/12/11/youtube-official-statement-contentid-claims/

“Our biggest story of the week has concerned the recent wave of ContentID claims against gaming YouTube channels. We initially reported that the changes would be tied to a new monetization review system for multi-channel networks that was set to debut in January. The story changed on December 10th, however, when thousands of videos across the site were flagged by ContentID.

The result has been chaos. Twitter has exploded, response videos are popping up en masse, and some creators are halting production on their videos as they try to figure out which claims are legitimate and which ones come from patent trolls or unrelated third parties.

In the latest development, YouTube has released an official statement that helps clear up the situation a little bit. The site has confirmed that the recent explosion of copyright claims is indeed related to a new system that will subject affiliate partners of MCNs to ContentID scanning. As a reminder, “affiliate” refers to most network partners, while the other category, “managed”, refers to channels where the network itself has taken a more active role.

Here is the unedited statement, in full:

“We recently enabled Content ID scanning on channels identified as affiliates of MCNs. This has resulted in new copyright claims for some users, based on policies set by the relevant content owners. As ever, channel owners can easily dispute Content ID claims if they believe those claims are invalid.”

This statement confirms what most creators already knew about the situation, but some troublesome elements are still unexplained. Why are so many claims coming from third parties with no apparent ties to game publishers? Why did YouTube enact this change much sooner than the January date it initially told Maker Studios? More philosophically, why would game publishers want to tear down a system that provides incalculably valuable exposure for their products?

We hope to get some more answers from YouTube soon. In the meantime, a video from YouTube gamer DPJ gives a nice overview of the ContentID system, explains what creators can do to fight against unjust claims, and shows off some impressive sniper rifle skills to boot".

Advocate of Justice, Liberty and Truth

(edited by Burnfall.9573)

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

Why is this in GW2 general? An old video sharing website of yesteryear having issues with copyright claims… I just don’t see the connection, even when video games are specifically mentioned.

Basically, why should we care about youtube copyright claims?

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

A lot of people post videos as guides and information for other players. It could be an issue for information distribution for those staples of our community

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Burnfall.9573

Burnfall.9573

Why is this in GW2 general? An old video sharing website of yesteryear having issues with copyright claims… I just don’t see the connection, even when video games are specifically mentioned.

Basically, why should we care about youtube copyright claims?

If you had read the article; this upcoming changes is not about youtube, it’s about company copyrights being used without their permission.

Arena.net is a company.

Advocate of Justice, Liberty and Truth

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

A lot of people post videos as guides and information for other players. It could be an issue for information distribution for those staples of our community

So….just use one of the hundreds of other video sharing websites? It’s not like we HAVE to use youtube, especially if it’s having problems like this. I guess I just don’t see the issue when there are other better options available anyway.

Good luck to those affected by this situation, I hope they work it out

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

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Posted by: Draco.2806

Draco.2806

GOOD!

YouTube cutting down on their own revenue is just what Blip.tv and Vimeo need.

On the bright side, while big publishers are busy trying to take down negative reviews and lets-plays of their games through abuse of the copyright claim system – thereby eliminating a large chunk of their advertising – PC and Indie games that have relied heavily on word of mouth will flourish as a result.

I highly doubt ANet would go as far as to take down videos of people playing their games or using their trailer footage. That would be a touch too… evil... and pretty dumb… which is usually EA, Nintendo and Capcom territory.

(edited by Draco.2806)

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

I guess I’m a peon. I know nothing about other video sharing sites. YouTube is the end all be all for me in terms of internet videos.

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Morrigan.2809

Morrigan.2809

man, good luck with me finding jumping puzzle guides o.o

Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: Turgut.4397

Turgut.4397

Google is well known for constantly shooting itself in the foot. Content creators can just switch to another video hosting site, while Google bows down to their corporate overlords, then wonders why they’ve lost a large majority of revenue the site generates. All great things come to an end. It’s time to move on.

Still waiting for the things I love about GW1.

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Posted by: Spiuk.8421

Spiuk.8421

Just move to other video uploading sites.

It’s pretty simple.

Rubios – Tales of the Sunless [TXS]

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Posted by: Peetee.9406

Peetee.9406

Angry Joe’s review is why I and a bunch of friends bought this game.

No review = No purchase

It makes no sense for any publisher/developer to back this.

Kayku
[CDS] Caedas
Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Redenaz.8631

Redenaz.8631

This discussion would be a lot more interesting if someone uploading GW2 footage had one of their videos affected and was posting about it. Has this actually happened to anyone with GW2 videos? Or are we just discussing “Oh, it happened with other games! It’s probably happening with us soon!” ?

I don’t see a reason to start panicking until we have details on something specific to panic about. It’s a strange situation. For example, some people in this thread are discussing the stance of game publishers on it, when a lot of the claims are actually coming from music companies, and many of them are being automatically generated, leaving a lot of supposed claimants nearly as confused as those affected.

So, are GW2 videos even being affected?

~The Storyteller – Elementalist – Jade Quarry~

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Posted by: Big Tower.5423

Big Tower.5423

Angry Joe’s review is why I and a bunch of friends bought this game.

No review = No purchase

It makes no sense for any publisher/developer to back this.

That guy’s for casuals x999999. Any hardcore gamer see’s gameplay footages of the games they wanna play and judge it by that. But yes youube matters at you gotta see gameplay

7800 hours ingame, and counting.

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Posted by: Xae Isareth.1364

Xae Isareth.1364

^ I would rather hear or read a review. Frankly, a lot if amazing gane look absolutely terrible just from gameplay, and a lot of terrible games look amazing from gameplay.

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Posted by: Charak.9761

Charak.9761

Turn off the GW2 Music when streaming/recording. The bots are mostly aiming at the music.

I think people are confused as to why people use youtube for their videos. You can monetize your videos now more easily. Most sites dont offer to pay you for your video uploads.

(edited by Charak.9761)

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Posted by: sadatoni.6524

sadatoni.6524

I was wondering the same thing when I read about that yesterday.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Angry Joe did a nice video on it, where he even used a Guild Wars 2 review of his as an example, which was receiving PlayNC ownership flags.

I hope both PlayNC and Anet come to the aid of their players in this respect, and help out with the digital right nonsense. People posting videos of your game is the best sort of advertisement for your game. But these content creators need to be protected against insane policies like this.

This may very well spell the end of YouTube by the way.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: Waldir.2571

Waldir.2571

They have said before they don’t mind people putting videos up. The the monetization factor is something that’s against the terms and conditions but they also said that they wold not go after anyone doing it. As far as YouTube flagging videos on their own… I don’t know if anet would even bother stepping up to help since the majority of videos do make it into YouTube.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

This new policy is a big problem to both game companies and it’s players. Because its a big hassle to go and approve all these content flags. Their customers are now stuck with hundreds of their videos auto-flagged and stripped of ad revenue.

Heed my words, this could kill YouTube. There might be a massive migration now to other video services, and all the content creators that made YouTube as big as it is, will leave them. That’s what happens if you first let all your users help you get rich, and then taff them over so badly.

I hope Ncsoft and ArenaNet stick up for their customers, and release some sort of a statement denouncing this YouTube policy. But I wouldn’t even hold it against them if they didn’t, because this is just ridiculous and a huge amount of work for everyone.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

(edited by Mad Queen Malafide.7512)

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Posted by: bobbles.5940

bobbles.5940

Angry Joe did a nice video on it, where he even used a Guild Wars 2 review of his as an example, which was receiving PlayNC ownership flags.

I hope both PlayNC and Anet come to the aid of their players in this respect, and help out with the digital right nonsense. People posting videos of your game is the best sort of advertisement for your game. But these content creators need to be protected against insane policies like this.

This may very well spell the end of YouTube by the way.

Just watched the Angry Joe video and came to ask the same thing

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

Good, people will stop using youtube and it’s archaic sharing policies will be moot.

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

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Posted by: Malchior.5042

Malchior.5042

There’s no way Google/Youtube could have intended for their copyright filter whatever the hell automated system to block celebrities with millions of views and subscribers without notice.

If they did it individually, yeah, that’s different, but most of this is being caused by an automatic content filter

I’d chalk it up to buggy software/poor implementation. Either way, it’s a dumb move on Youtube’s part and I, like many others, am interested in Arenanet’s stance and/or policies on the change.

Malchior Devenholm | Proud member of Zealots of Shiverpeak [ZoS] | Northern Shiverpeaks

(edited by Malchior.5042)

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Posted by: BaconCatTheGreasy.9542

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542

Basically, on the latest Angry Joe Video, at the 3 minute mark (Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAi81_uvztM#t=180), we see that “PlayNC” has thrown a copyright claim at Angry Joe for showing a picture of him and his Guildmates dancing in the background.

I would like to know if this is just an automated Youtube thing (and what steps they are taking to correct it) or if NCSoft is deliberately trying to take down Angry Joe’s videos despite the praise he has given the game.

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Posted by: AngelMouse.7345

AngelMouse.7345

“Sometimes, in madness resides genius.”

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Posted by: Meglobob.8620

Meglobob.8620

I don’t know if this is related/connected in anyway…

But loads of gaming videos are being taken down/censored off youtube, something to do with goggle apparently…anyway a lot of the gaming companies themselves don’t want this. Blizzard, Ubisoft others have said they are fine with the gaming videos and want them left alone.

Its a big mess about copyright laws apparently…a overreaction…

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Posted by: Draygo.9473

Draygo.9473

The problem is mainly on googles policy, right now people can copyright troll youtube videos and submit false copyright claims via content ID without having to prove the request is a reasonable one – as seen when a bunch of blizzard games got flagged.

Delarme
Apathy Inc [Ai]

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Posted by: Stephane Lo Presti

Stephane Lo Presti

Content Marketing Manager, French

Hi everyone,

During the last few weeks, there have been a lot of discussions about YouTube and the hot topic lately has been policies about posting to YouTube video content that contains videogame assets. This situation is continuing to develop and we’ll be monitoring YouTube changes, but we’d like to provide some clarification on the matter of our policies.

To use assets (e.g., screenshots, footage) from our games, any content creator needs to comply with the Guild Wars 2 Terms of Use that are detailed here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-content-terms-of-use/. These rules are pretty explicit and haven’t changed since we put them together. They define what content ArenaNet considers out of line. Content creators are not permitted to use our assets to create a commercial product and use of our assets for non-commercial purposes is permitted. Monetizing a fan-created Guild Wars 2 video on YouTube via its partner program is generally not against these Content Terms of Use, just as serving advertising (Google Ads, for instance) on a fansite is not against the Content Terms of Use.

We actually support people sharing their experiences with our game, such as Let’s Play, guides, reviews, or other types of fan videos on YouTube. We generally do not take any action against YouTube videos using our game assets. We will investigate what’s happening with the PlayNC claims. You can contact us at community@arena.net if you have further questions. We’re also going to start reviewing our policies to make sure they’re clear on where we stand regarding content creation. Keep in mind that this will take quite some time since it involves legal reviews.

Thanks a lot for supporting the Guild Wars 2 community by creating awesome content to show your experiences with the game!

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Posted by: boondocksaint.6529

boondocksaint.6529

That is really great to hear. I did not think we would get an answer soon because of all the legal issues, so much appreciated.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Splendid, and thanks for responding so swiftly. We understand that this is a complicated mess that YouTube has placed a lot of game companies in.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: thefantasticg.3984

thefantasticg.3984

Well, Anet, you can thank Angry Joe’s review of your game. If it wasn’t for that review I wouldn’t have purchased your game for me or my Wife. I also wouldn’t have gotten my sister and brother into playing it either.

I’m just going to leave that comment right there.

RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.

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Posted by: adubb.2453

adubb.2453

Hi everyone,

During the last few weeks, there have been a lot of discussions about YouTube and the hot topic lately has been policies about posting to YouTube video content that contains videogame assets. This situation is continuing to develop and we’ll be monitoring YouTube changes, but we’d like to provide some clarification on the matter of our policies.

To use assets (e.g., screenshots, footage) from our games, any content creator needs to comply with the Guild Wars 2 Terms of Use that are detailed here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-content-terms-of-use/. These rules are pretty explicit and haven’t changed since we put them together. They define what content ArenaNet considers out of line. Content creators are not permitted to use our assets to create a commercial product and use of our assets for non-commercial purposes is permitted. Monetizing a fan-created Guild Wars 2 video on YouTube via its partner program is generally not against these Content Terms of Use, just as serving advertising (Google Ads, for instance) on a fansite is not against the Content Terms of Use.

We actually support people sharing their experiences with our game, such as Let’s Play, guides, reviews, or other types of fan videos on YouTube. We generally do not take any action against YouTube videos using our game assets. We will investigate what’s happening with the PlayNC claims. You can contact us at community@arena.net if you have further questions. We’re also going to start reviewing our policies to make sure they’re clear on where we stand regarding content creation. Keep in mind that this will take quite some time since it involves legal reviews.

Thanks a lot for supporting the Guild Wars 2 community by creating awesome content to show your experiences with the game!

So, I’ve been thinking about recording all of the Living Story cinematics and major story events and putting them up on a YouTube channel. I wouldn’t be adding any commentary or anything to it, it would be more of a historical “Catch up on the story so far” series of videos.

Would this be something that you guys would be okay with?

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Posted by: neurojame.8570

neurojame.8570

Ms. Lo Presti,
Inactivity is the fertile field in which the thorns of tyranny grow.

Right now its a game reviewer, in the future if you criticize the powers that be, will they flag and take down your video if you were wearing a nike shirt, In the name of the company without their involvment?
In so far as you tube using your company name for these claims, this is how I see it…

“You are responsible for any use and related liabilities with respect to your company name whether or not such use and related liabilities were in any way authorized by You, and it is Your responsibility to safeguard your company name”

I use the same standards that your company uses in its user agreement.

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Posted by: Oniyui.8279

Oniyui.8279

Inactivity is the fertile field in which the thorns of tyranny grow.

Sylvari business lawyers? Hm, maybe we all could use a little more of Ventari’s teachings in our lives.

Act with wisdom, but act.

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Posted by: Kaos.9162

Kaos.9162

Ms. Lo Presti,

I believe you mean “Mr.”, but back to the topic at hand, great that there’s been a clear response on this.

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Posted by: neurojame.8570

neurojame.8570

This is what I’d Like to see….

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

NC Soft and Joe Vargas AKA angry Joe
Plaintiffs
Vs
Google Inc.
Defendant

Nature of the action

Claim 1: Defendant Google inc, knowingly used the name of NC play as a claimant against the review video of Mr. Vargas without the express written permission of NC soft and therefore violated copyright law.

Claim 2: Defendant Google inc, libeled NC soft by publishing a claim against the review of Mr. Vargas which was not initiated by NC soft, thereby damaging the reputation of NC soft and resulting in lost revenue by NC soft ( see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/I-ve-bought-my-last-gem/first#post3370672) Defendant is seeking damages for lost revenues.

Claim 3: Defendant Google inc, violated the ability for Mr. Vargas to collect revenue by the use of video or audio clips within the online review of video games. Use for criticism or comment are explicitly exempted from copyright law under the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 107. As Mr. Vargas’s source of income is based on the online reviews, the claimant is seeking damages for lost revenues as well as pain and suffering (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQfHdasuWtI)

I know this seems extreme, but keep in mind that this is against google who won a lawsuit after aruging fair use after copying complete books for google books.

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Posted by: eyelogix.1654

eyelogix.1654

The problem is mainly on googles policy, right now people can copyright troll youtube videos and submit false copyright claims via content ID without having to prove the request is a reasonable one – as seen when a bunch of blizzard games got flagged.

Like Mike B mentioned he got a video flagged because he used the word “poop”. Some kitten claimed the word poop was a copyright infrigment.
I just hope Google sort this kitten out.

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Posted by: Draygo.9473

Draygo.9473

I would like to see some of the youtube content providers give google a nice lawsuit for damages.

Delarme
Apathy Inc [Ai]

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Posted by: Sirendor.1394

Sirendor.1394

I do actually think it helps this game a lot. I have totally enjoyed watching videos about Guild Wars 2, even before it was released. Woodenpotatoes probably made me decide to buy it along with a few other Youtube podcasters. If anything, those people are very important for both players and the developers. Players get a chance to see what the game is like, know if it will fit them and enjoy watching. Developers get free advertisements.

What more can you wish?

Gandara – Vabbi – Ring of Fire – Fissure of Woe – Vabbi
SPvP as Standalone All is Vain

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

I don’t know if WoodenPotatoes gets ad revenue on his account, but if he does, he would be a victim of this new policy as well. Because all of his videos would automatically be flagged.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: DeathMetal.8264

DeathMetal.8264

I always wondered how these “YouTubers” “got away” with posting such videos with music and clips, because as soon as I post a video of our guild doing Guild Mission, it is almost always flagged and I have to either remove the music or use one of the pre-set sound of YouTube, it’s ridiculous. Sometimes, I can get thru without the flagging, but that’s an exception, rather than the norm.

I feel for these YouTubers…

Lv80 Thief |Mesmer |Necromancer|Ranger|Guardian|Warrior|Elementalist|Engineer
[Aeon of Wonder]
Maguuma Server

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Posted by: FourthVariety.5463

FourthVariety.5463

For fansites the situation is less about loosing money, it is about loosing the advertisement monopoly those fansites often sold to their hosts.

Who cares what ArenaNet rules say. The more immediate contract is with the hoster who expects that in exchange for hosting and funding a fansite, the advertisement revenue goes into his direction. Not in the pockets of fansite individuals placing additional banners on the website or Youtube videos and certainly not to third parties. Even if they own the assets the content is based upon.

If PlayNC disables all the monetization, they can claim what they want on a fansite channel without bothering anybody. If PlayNC keeps monetization turned on, fansites are forced to turn videos private and remove them from the site.

For people earning their money by only monetizing on Youtube, the situation is more dire. They are driven out of business, they do not have a partner backing them. They just got stabbed in the back by Google.

ArenaNet needs to acknowledge the different needs of those tow groups and act differently for both. Fansites can be happy with no ads being on the site, professional Youtube channel operators require the money to still go to them.

(edited by FourthVariety.5463)

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Posted by: Prophet.6257

Prophet.6257

Looks like this is an issue again.

“Why did you do this? GuildWars2 I’ve done nothing but promote your game.”
-Angry Loe

Attachments:

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Posted by: Berelious.3290

Berelious.3290

Looks like this is an issue again.

“Why did you do this? GuildWars2 I’ve done nothing but promote your game.”
-Angry Loe

ANet knows about it and is working to resolve the situation. Apparently NCSoft is the one that made the claim. https://twitter.com/AngryJoeShow/status/421630568321646592

Corwin Grimjaw: Guardian (80)
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]

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Posted by: bobbles.5940

bobbles.5940

Looks like this is an issue again.

“Why did you do this? GuildWars2 I’ve done nothing but promote your game.”
-Angry Loe

Is this a NEW claim or just from the Video Joe posted on 13th December 2013 linked above ?
Edit: Ninja’d by Berelious

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Posted by: Prophet.6257

Prophet.6257

It’s from Angry Joes facebook page. He started posting about it again around 8:00 am eastern 1/10/14

https://www.facebook.com/goangryjoe

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Posted by: sAdam.5876

sAdam.5876

Wow I thought that it will be already resolved. Sooooo no more reviews of guild wars 2 allowed or just Joe is out of luck?

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Posted by: Prophet.6257

Prophet.6257

idk, They seem to be working on it still.

I hope it gets fixed. I love watching reviews, commentaries, and podcast about GW2 while I play. It would really suck to lose that aspect of the the game.

Without people like Matt Visual, Wooden Potatoes, Bog Otter, and even Angry Joe’s initial VERY positive reviews I think the community would suffer.

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Posted by: dangerCake.1473

dangerCake.1473

Yeah, what’s the deal on this? This stance conflicts with what’s been stated by Gaile Gray, and with NC Soft as your parent company, do they get the final say? I have old GW1 videos that I never monetized getting flagged for 3rd party content now. Am I going to lose my good standing on YouTube?

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Posted by: BaconCatTheGreasy.9542

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542

It seems NCPlay has yet to resolve the “dispute” despite several other companies having done so (which is BS since they don’t have the right to even make a claim because it’s protected under fair use.)