Guild Wars 2

I have been an adamant supporter of the Ascalonian cause to rid Ascalon (at least old Ascalon) of the fur balls called “Charr”. While playing the living story fighting with the human separatists made me feel very guilty, while bashing in the skulls of Charr fulfilled my bloodlust (25 stacks woot woot!).

Will Ascalon reclaim its glorious homeland, and King Samuelsson sit upon the throne?

I highly doubt it. At any rate, Ascalon apparently belonged to the charr first before the humans drove them out. I’m not sure humans have a “right” to it.

Anyway it seems Charr at this point in time are more successful than humans.

The humans stole Ascalon from the Charr initially. Sharing the land is possible in the far future, both races share too many historical animosities to look past simple friendships.

All things have a right to grow.

Except those Centaur. Centaur don’t have a right to grow.

Vayne.8563:

I highly doubt it. At any rate, Ascalon apparently belonged to the charr first before the humans drove them out. I’m not sure humans have a “right” to it.

Anyway it seems Charr at this point in time are more successful than humans.

no one has a “right” to land, the charr had it then got driven out by the humans, thats just war. the humans got driven back out by the charr, that again is just war. In the lore the charr subjugated the grawl for the land now known as Ascalon. so if anyone has a “right” to the land it should be the Grawl, they’re a sentient race now too.

Vayne.8563:

I highly doubt it. At any rate, Ascalon apparently belonged to the charr first before the humans drove them out. I’m not sure humans have a “right” to it.

Anyway it seems Charr at this point in time are more successful than humans.

Yes like how the charr nuked the entire country with meteors gives them a “right” to the land either

Akechi Hotaru.7129:

Vayne.8563:

I highly doubt it. At any rate, Ascalon apparently belonged to the charr first before the humans drove them out. I’m not sure humans have a “right” to it.

Anyway it seems Charr at this point in time are more successful than humans.

no one has a “right” to land, the charr had it then got driven out by the humans, thats just war. the humans got driven back out by the charr, that again is just war. In the lore the charr subjugated the grawl for the land now known as Ascalon. so if anyone has a “right” to the land it should be the Grawl, they’re a sentient race now too.

Yep, I agree. Whoever takes land by force only has it by right of force. Is that right?

Some would say yes. I would disagree.

“…and they think they own the place just because their great great grand-daddy took a dump there 200 years ago” /paraphrased.

Seriously, Tyria’s long term history is relatively clean, with only a few known past owners of any given lands. Look at Europe and tell the current countries that they need to give back their land to the “original owners” – you’d first have to agree at what point in the last 120,000 years you consider “original”…

…look at the US for that matter. People living in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

So yes, the charr historically held the land, the humans took it, the charr took it back. If the humans want back ascalon they’re going to need to fight for it or negotiate for it but there’s no prescident to just give it to the humans

stayBlind.7849:

All things have a right to grow.

Except those Centaur. Centaur don’t have a right to grow.

LOL at this.

I’m surprised Anet went that way with it, haven’t met a cool centaur in GW2 yet (R.i.p Zhed Shadowhoof). And that quote made it all the more ironic since it’s part of Ventari’s (a centaur) teachings.

gennyt.3428:

LOL at this.

I’m surprised Anet went that way with it, haven’t met a cool centaur in GW2 yet (R.i.p Zhed Shadowhoof). And that quote made it all the more ironic since it’s part of Ventari’s (a centaur) teachings.

There is a peaceful centaur wandering about in Lion’s Arch’s Grand plaza.

Akechi Hotaru.7129:

no one has a “right” to land, the charr had it then got driven out by the humans, thats just war. the humans got driven back out by the charr, that again is just war. In the lore the charr subjugated the grawl for the land now known as Ascalon. so if anyone has a “right” to the land it should be the Grawl, they’re a sentient race now too.

That’s not how things work in civilized societies. If the right to ownership was determined by might alone the strong would own everything and the weak would own nothing. “You have a nice house. You’d better hope you can beat me in a fight, otherwise it’s going to be my house.”

gennyt.3428:

stayBlind.7849:

All things have a right to grow.

Except those Centaur. Centaur don’t have a right to grow.

LOL at this.

I’m surprised Anet went that way with it, haven’t met a cool centaur in GW2 yet (R.i.p Zhed Shadowhoof). And that quote made it all the more ironic since it’s part of Ventari’s (a centaur) teachings.

The one in the Norn brawl storyline seems a bit o fun. A bit of obvious personality does wonders.

darkace.8925:

That’s not how things work in civilized societies. If the right to ownership was determined by might alone the strong would own everything and the weak would own nothing. “You have a nice house. You’d better hope you can beat me in a fight, otherwise it’s going to be my house.”

We’re not talking about on a personal scale, but that of governments and nations.

And that is almost exactly how it works in “civilised lands”… take America for example. European settlers arrived, and promptly killed, converted or integrated the local population and took over administration of their land. (Application of force 1)

Later, the war of independence arose, and colonists took the land away from the British and formed their own republic. (Application of force 2). In turn there was the American civil war, where the South wanted to cede from the republic, and were basically beaten into submission (Application of force 3).

So, tell me – if that’s not how civilised countries set their borders, shouldn’t the folks in the US be giving back that land right about now?

Like I say, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones and if you’re reading this in a first world country; you’re living in a glass house, because you are the charr

Ryuujin.8236:

darkace.8925:

That’s not how things work in civilized societies. If the right to ownership was determined by might alone the strong would own everything and the weak would own nothing. “You have a nice house. You’d better hope you can beat me in a fight, otherwise it’s going to be my house.”

We’re not talking about on a personal scale, but that of governments and nations.

And that is almost exactly how it works in “civilised lands”… take America for example. European settlers arrived, and promptly killed, converted or integrated the local population and took over administration of their land. (Application of force 1)

Later, the war of independence arose, and colonists took the land away from the British and formed their own republic. (Application of force 2). In turn there was the American civil war, where the South wanted to cede from the republic, and were basically beaten into submission (Application of force 3).

So, tell me – if that’s not how civilised countries set their borders, shouldn’t the folks in the US be giving back that land right about now?

Like I say, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones and if you’re reading this in a first world country; you’re living in a glass house, because you are the charr

I’m pretty sure darkace was talking about now , not colonial times.

darkace.8925:

That’s not how things work in civilized societies. If the right to ownership was determined by might alone the strong would own everything and the weak would own nothing. “You have a nice house. You’d better hope you can beat me in a fight, otherwise it’s going to be my house.”

Thats how the world has worked since the dawn of time. The conquered have no right to the lands they once owned. “Posession is 9/10’s of the law” as they say.

stayBlind.7849:

All things have a right to grow.

Except those Centaur. Centaur don’t have a right to grow.

this made me lol

not only because it’s funny, but it’s true. And yes, I hated Zhed, he would always go up to mobs and then proceed to use Glowing Gaze in their face while the target isn’t burning.

Anyway, I’m pretty sure the grawl had it first, too

Shun.9475:

I have been an adamant supporter of the Ascalonian cause to rid Ascalon (at least old Ascalon) of the fur balls called “Charr”. While playing the living story fighting with the human separatists made me feel very guilty, while bashing in the skulls of Charr fulfilled my bloodlust (25 stacks woot woot!).

Will Ascalon reclaim its glorious homeland, and King Samuelsson sit upon the throne?

You separatist you.

If they do anything at all it would be a human settlement withing Charr lands, but don’t count on it

I think eventually we may get there, why not? I think it would be an epic living story to reclaim Ascalon & rebuild it for all races….There are some settlements out there that humans have begun to build now that there’s a treaty, and Charr who are helping them so I don’t see a reason why not…And if there is a new Monarch of Ascalon, it will probably default to Jennah as she’s the Queen of pretty much all humanity right now since we have absolutely no idea what’s going on in Cantha or Elona, and she’s the one who got this treaty to happen in the first place. But I don’t see the traditional Monarchy taking hold in a reclaimed Ascalon autocratically. Maybe leaders of all the races would have a council, or round table of sorts where each of them is equal to the other. Even if Queen Jennah is on the Ascalonian throne so to speak, ceremonially – for Ascalonians, and as the “middle-man” since she did get the treaty to happen after all.

Ultimately, it seems that Ascalon means more to humans than it does to the Charr…It was a matter of principal for the Charr from the way I see it, more than a matter of necessity or rightful ownership, or even actually wanting it.

I doubt Queen Jennah would want to do anything to risk damaging charr-human relations. At the end of the day, she wants all the races to work together to eliminate the dragon problem…so until all dragons are gone, which I doubt will happen for a long time, I would say the charr are safe in Ascalon.

Ryuujin.8236:

“…and they think they own the place just because their great great grand-daddy took a dump there 200 years ago” /paraphrased.

Seriously, Tyria’s long term history is relatively clean, with only a few known past owners of any given lands. Look at Europe and tell the current countries that they need to give back their land to the “original owners” – you’d first have to agree at what point in the last 120,000 years you consider “original”…

…look at the US for that matter. People living in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones

So yes, the charr historically held the land, the humans took it, the charr took it back. If the humans want back ascalon they’re going to need to fight for it or negotiate for it but there’s no prescident to just give it to the humans

Even if you could work out the “original” borders in Europe you wouldn’t be able to assign them back to the descendants of the people who used to live there because the people have changed too. They’ve intermarried, and then split off and formed a new culture, and then intermarried with someone else and then some of them emigrated and people from somewhere else immigrated…..and so on for all of those thousands of years.

And it’s the same in Tyria. Even the relatively small group of Ascalonians who stayed in Ascalon have probably intermarried with humans from other areas. The majority of those who survived the Searing went over the mountains to Kryta and definitely have.

Well, nobody is safe in Ascalon. It’s full of ghosts and a bunch of rubble. But I agree, if the day came where it was reclaimed…I don’t think there would be a Monarch unless it was Jennah, simply because she made the treaty happen and she is the figurehead & leader for most of known humanity right now. Many descendants of the Ascalonians are returning there and starting up settlements, which would be the only reason that there would be a Monarch in Ascalon once it was reclaimed, if there was ever going to be one. It wouldn’t make all that much sense to confuse the situation with two human Monarch’s running around after the one has already put so much work into the whole thing and is already the one that most people are looking to and loyal to.

That being said, I really think a reclaimed Ascalon would ultimately be for all the races and therefor it’s leadership would be governed by a council of the races leaders, or their viceroys/representatives. Or it could be left to be it’s own entity as a City State…