Guild Wars 2

TooBz.3065:

Hjorje.9453:

It actually may not be that long. You have 3 class at medium armor, 3 light, and 2 heavy. It would take that long if you used a different setup for each class, but there should be some overlap in there that cuts the time down.

Also ascended armor is supposed to be a long term thing, not a got to have it right now.

I’ll bet someone has a full set by the end of the week.

Nike had one like 15 minutes after the patch hit. Link

Don’t ask him how much he spent though. He doesn’t wanna say.

MrRuin.9740:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

And you’re not understanding that Ascended gear is BiS, and isn’t meant to be gotten quickly, easily, or cheaply.

I agree. Except it is easy. Dailies and monthlies are joke to do. They don’t cost anything either.
Quickly is all thats left, and this time-gating is the dumbest thing they could do. They don’t want people to have it right on the first day, I get that. Its supposed to be hard to get, I get that.
But this is truly the best they could come up with for achieving that? Time gate it behind a lame 20min daily for weeks? If this is the best they could come up with, I weep for the future of this game.
Your argument would be valid if you actually had to do anything hard to get it. You don’t. You only have to grind and do the dailies. The only difference between GW2 BiS gear grind and any other MMO is that you can’t do it faster. They not only dangle the carrot, but put a leash on you so you can’t get it unless its on their time-table.
This is revolutionary? Ugh.

Counter post to correct some of your errors:

1) It’s not easy, by means of the amount of Mats you need.
2) Getting to lv 500 Crafting isn’t cheap. Then on top of that, you still need to refine further to craft Ascended Mats.
3) The gates force you to put in the effort to get the BiS gear. You can’t just go out and fully gear all your characters with Ascended armor and weapons. “Time” is an investment that you need to put in before you can walk away with the gear. Be thankful it’s not locked behind RNG.

Gene Archer.8560:

And you’re not understanding that for GW2, that’s bad game design because it flies entirely in the face of how the game was supposed to be. (insert quote about even casuals having BiS by level 80 here)

But silly me. I forgot. You’re one of those players that wants GW2 to be just like every other MMO already out on the market.

Please do remind me of what GW2 was suppose to be like, or what proper game design is? Is there an industry standard, or is all this based on what you personally want?

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”

-Paul Barnett 2.0

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Counter post to correct some of your errors:

1) It’s not easy, by means of the amount of Mats you need.
2) Getting to lv 500 Crafting isn’t cheap. Then on top of that, you still need to refine further to craft Ascended Mats.
3) The gates force you to put in the effort to get the BiS gear. You can’t just go out and fully gear all your characters with Ascended armor and weapons. “Time” is an investment that you need to put in before you can walk away with the gear. Be thankful it’s not locked behind RNG.

1) It is easy. Grinding the mats takes no effort. Just time. You are confusing time spent mindlessly grinding mats with something that actually takes effort.

2) I wasn’t talking about crafting, nor did I imply it. Leveling the craft is a one-time deal and one-time expense. The topic at hand has nothing to do with this, rather the actual crafting itself.

3)Time-gating does not equal effort. All it means I have to log-in and grind, see #1)
Time does not equal effort. Time spent grinding out mats and waiting behind time-gating equals boredom and screams that the developers couldn’t think of any better way to implement this gear. I’m also not saying I want to be able to outfit all my characters instantly with it either. You are making that assumption on your own.
I would be more inclined to actually get this gear if it required me to do more than play farmville. I want to earn new gear. You may like mindless grind and consider it an effort and want to defend it. I do not. I want to be able to run dungeons, fractals, events, something, anything to earn it besides a horribly long time-gated grind.
When exotic was BiS, we had options as to how we wanted to make it. With the new tier, they seem to have not put any thought into and just said “heres some new BiS gear. Go grind it or rely on RNG, we don’t really care anymore”.

This game is already too simple: stop demanding it be more simple. Please, just go home, take a deep breath and relax. It’s supposed to be a long term goal, not something you ought to get on each and every champ you’ve got there instantly. Kids, seriously…

LOL, love these people explaining it away now. A year ago people were gung ho against this type of thing and now you have all these PVE lovers in here defending it. This is a silly system that isn’t casual or alt-friendly. Still, as evidenced by the posts above, some people are happy with it. More power to them, but my guess is the numbers will begin to drop in this game soon.

Spockime.1364:

LOL, love these people explaining it away now. A year ago people were gung ho against this type of thing and now you have all these PVE lovers in here defending it. This is a silly system that isn’t casual or alt-friendly. Still, as evidenced by the posts above, some people are happy with it. More power to them, but my guess is the numbers will begin to drop in this game soon.

It’s not PvE lovers..it’s the usual white knight suspects.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

And you’re not understanding that Ascended gear is BiS, and isn’t meant to be gotten quickly, easily, or cheaply.

In the game I bought it was and that was the intention.

That game died, man.

TainoFuerte.8136:

That game died, man.

The new CDI starts tomorrow, it will discuss Horizontal vs. Vertical progression. I think that might be an opportunity for those of us who love the franchise to argue for the idea of the game we love, and the game we bought under the premise of a horizontal progression.

THIS game we have? Many of us think they did a bait and switch.

This new CDI is our chance to fight against the current state of the game and take it in a brand new, and original, direction.

Have one toon (your main) all decked out in the finest gear laurels can buy. The rest of your litter gets blues and greens and maybe one rare. I don’t see the problem.

They should make each piece cost 5000 laurels each so most people will never get them and this will never be an issue.

Big plus on Ascended being tradeable.
I mean if those new ascended backpieces are on the TP, why can the rest of the gear be so too?

Not everyone likes crafting.

I’ve seen people complain about having nothing to spend their laurels on, so… I personally have spent laurels on unidentified dyes on several occasions, and on obsidian shards when making a legendary. Right now, I have 27 laurels and I haven’t missed a daily in several months. Using laurels to buy recipes is ok, I guess, but it would be nice to have some sort of currency exchange or introduce “weekly’s” to award more laurels. Karma —→ laurels seems reasonable to me.

Krypto.2069:

Have one toon (your main) all decked out in the finest gear laurels can buy. The rest of your litter gets blues and greens and maybe one rare. I don’t see the problem.

Then you don’t have alts. You have a main.

MrRuin.9740:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Counter post to correct some of your errors:

1) It’s not easy, by means of the amount of Mats you need.
2) Getting to lv 500 Crafting isn’t cheap. Then on top of that, you still need to refine further to craft Ascended Mats.
3) The gates force you to put in the effort to get the BiS gear. You can’t just go out and fully gear all your characters with Ascended armor and weapons. “Time” is an investment that you need to put in before you can walk away with the gear. Be thankful it’s not locked behind RNG.

1) It is easy. Grinding the mats takes no effort. Just time. You are confusing time spent mindlessly grinding mats with something that actually takes effort.

2) I wasn’t talking about crafting, nor did I imply it. Leveling the craft is a one-time deal and one-time expense. The topic at hand has nothing to do with this, rather the actual crafting itself.

3)Time-gating does not equal effort. All it means I have to log-in and grind, see #1)
Time does not equal effort. Time spent grinding out mats and waiting behind time-gating equals boredom and screams that the developers couldn’t think of any better way to implement this gear. I’m also not saying I want to be able to outfit all my characters instantly with it either. You are making that assumption on your own.
I would be more inclined to actually get this gear if it required me to do more than play farmville. I want to earn new gear. You may like mindless grind and consider it an effort and want to defend it. I do not. I want to be able to run dungeons, fractals, events, something, anything to earn it besides a horribly long time-gated grind.
When exotic was BiS, we had options as to how we wanted to make it. With the new tier, they seem to have not put any thought into and just said “heres some new BiS gear. Go grind it or rely on RNG, we don’t really care anymore”.

More corrections:

1) There’s a difference between grinding mats, and actually getting the mats to drop. T6 drop, but not as often as one would like. T5 mats and lower are a bit more common, so grind usually takes care of these. The higher tiers require both time and luck. The RNG makes it so that rare drops stay rare, thus keeping their values as they are. Powerful Blood are the most expensive on the TP, mainly because it’s both rare and in high demand. So yes, it does take effort to collect enough T6+ mats.

2) I was making the point that crafting to level 500 is an expensive task. In order to craft Ascended gear, you must be at level 500, or get luck from drops. Ultimately, Ascended crafting = not cheap.

3) Gating something = effort. If you feel that it’s not worth the time, and don’t choose to slowly gather the required Ascended mats, then you won’t be able to make the gear. Pretty simple. Make the effort, reap the rewards. I’m more than willing to craft my mats once per day in order to gear my characters. I’m in no rush to show off my Ascended armor. The stat increases that come with it won’t make me a superior player in PvE and WvW.

4) You can run dungeons and Fractals all you want. Nothing is stopping you. Dungeons are good for tokens, which you then can trade for armor or weapons. FotM gives you relics to get Ascended rings. Do some WvW for Badges, which you can then use to pick any armor setup you want. Kill Tequatl for his rare Ascended weapon chests he drops.

Ascended > Exotic, but not necessary. If you want the Ascended gear, make the effort to get it. Otherwise, stick with Exotics, and enjoy the game.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Happy Wintersday! The next CDI topic will be starting tomorrow and will be housed on this forum. The topic will be around Player Progression: Horizontal vs Vertical Progression.

Looking forward to discussing this topic with you all.

Chris

Remember to join that thread

TooBz.3065:

Mimizu.7340:

you cannot have an alt without first having a main.

False premise. Alt is just a term that is used to generically refer to people with more than one character. I have 8 alts, and no main. Or one character I play more than the others, but who that is changes.

If we were only suppose to have one character, and this game was not going to be multiple character friendly (it was originally, but it really isn’t anymore) then they should have made that clear upfront.

Not so.
Without a main, the term alt would be superfluous.
You argue semantics, as do i, yet i use alt in its correct sense.
I myself have 9 characters, 1 is by default my main, 8 are then alts.
You say you play one more than the others and that changes,
yet one is definately played more than the rest,
most probably your first ever 80.
That is your main. The rest are alts.
The same is true of me and anyone else who likes to play multiple characters.

I’m not really sure what that last bit is about, something about someone not being upfront about something?

The bottom line is:
If you like playing more than one character you need to understand that it will take you much longer to do everything you want with all of them.
I dont understand why you are only just now realising that concept.

Really not happy about this.

Time gating is the worst thing to happen to MMOs. Daily rewards are cool and all, but removing a player’s ability and choice to work towards their own goal in their own way is crap.

Don’t agree at all, it is indeed alt friendly, I have 7 fully geared ascended trinket Toons and 212 Laurels to spare.

And I actually like this, because it is supposed to take time to get the full set.

Cylokin.2560:

Don’t agree at all, it is indeed alt friendly, I have 7 fully geared ascended trinket Toons and 212 Laurels to spare.

Come back when you have them geared in full ascended armor + weapons and infusions.

Cya in a few years.

GrimHero.5140:

Cylokin.2560:

Don’t agree at all, it is indeed alt friendly, I have 7 fully geared ascended trinket Toons and 212 Laurels to spare.

Come back when you have them geared in full ascended armor + weapons and infusions.

Cya in a few years.

Full ascended armor for every alt? Lol, it is supposed to be THE endgame “hard to get” armor, it would be pretty lame if you could cloth every alt just like that. I would like it to be even harder to make it.

Mimizu.7340:

TooBz.3065:

Mimizu.7340:

you cannot have an alt without first having a main.

False premise. Alt is just a term that is used to generically refer to people with more than one character. I have 8 alts, and no main. Or one character I play more than the others, but who that is changes.

If we were only suppose to have one character, and this game was not going to be multiple character friendly (it was originally, but it really isn’t anymore) then they should have made that clear upfront.

Not so.
Without a main, the term alt would be superfluous.
You argue semantics, as do i, yet i use alt in its correct sense.
I myself have 9 characters, 1 is by default my main, 8 are then alts.
You say you play one more than the others and that changes,
yet one is definately played more than the rest,
most probably your first ever 80.
That is your main. The rest are alts.
The same is true of me and anyone else who likes to play multiple characters.

I’m not really sure what that last bit is about, something about someone not being upfront about something?

The bottom line is:
If you like playing more than one character you need to understand that it will take you much longer to do everything you want with all of them.
I dont understand why you are only just now realising that concept.

You can try and argue semantics if you want, but you’re just showing that you’re close minded. Some people will have a main and an alt, others however won’t have a main. I have 8 level 80’s and I have 4 that I play equally. Guardian for PvE and necro/thief/mesmer for WvW. I don’t have any character that I play more than the others. I’d love to have them all equally geared and multiple sets for multiple specs, but ArenaNet has decided that I’d need to grind my face off to make that happen.

Oh how I wish they had stuck to easy to obtain max stats hard to obtain skins. Now we have super grind to obtain max stats.

Cylokin.2560:

GrimHero.5140:

Cylokin.2560:

Don’t agree at all, it is indeed alt friendly, I have 7 fully geared ascended trinket Toons and 212 Laurels to spare.

Come back when you have them geared in full ascended armor + weapons and infusions.

Cya in a few years.

Full ascended armor for every alt? Lol, it is supposed to be THE endgame “hard to get” armor, it would be pretty lame if you could cloth every alt just like that. I would like it to be even harder to make it.

It isnt hard to get. As in it doesnt take actual skill to get. You dont have to overcome a difficult skill based in game challenge to get it.

Timegating and Rng just make it take ridiculously long to get.

Theres is a difference between being hard to get and just taking long to get.

I think the replies have highlighted the issue, which is that there is no alternative way to obtain it.

For those in small guilds, guild commendations don’t exist.

For those that loath the sight of fractals, another avenue s closed.

The simple solution is to make ascended stuff tradeable before worn, so those with a oversupply of laurels can utilise them and those with neither the time nor the inclination to enter fractals, be in a big guild, or who just want to kit out their mains (3 or 4 of them, 1-4 armor sets each) can also do so.

Games are supposed to be FUN, not a series of daily chores for months on end in order to kit your toons out so that you can do the things you want to do and not be outclassed by the ‘I have one main haha’ brigade.

Some of us actually log in to games to enjoy themselves and do the stuff we feel like doing, not be forced into artificial pathways by bad game design- which leads to us quitting sooner or later or looking around for something else to do.

Distaste.4801:

You can try and argue semantics if you want, but you’re just showing that you’re close minded.

I wasn’t trying, I was actually doing it.
Calling me close minded for it is just insulting.
Regardless of how you word it, one of your characters is your main.
No matter how exacting or equal you think you are being with each of your character’s playtime, one of them has been played longer than all the rest.
Even if only by a minute, even if only by a second.
Denying this is a bit like saying that the numbers 2-10 have nothing to do with the number 1, and saying “most people dont even use 1…is that even a number?”

Mimizu.7340:

Distaste.4801:

You can try and argue semantics if you want, but you’re just showing that you’re close minded.

I wasn’t trying, I was actually doing it.
Calling me close minded for it is just insulting.
Regardless of how you word it, one of your characters is your main.
No matter how exacting or equal you think you are being with each of your character’s playtime, one of them has been played longer than all the rest.
Even if only by a minute, even if only by a second.
Denying this is a bit like saying that the numbers 2-10 have nothing to do with the number 1, and saying “most people dont even use 1…is that even a number?”

i think a better argument to put forward would be the following:

Make use of the /age command ingame.
The char which has the most hours against it, clearly is your “Main” character since it has been played the most regardless of the difference to your alts, being 1 minute or 1 hour difference.

I too fall into this, i have 10 chars, 1 main and 9 alts – i say this because i have spent well over 700+ hours on my human war and the rest of my 1600 is spent across all my others. i do switch depending on my feeling in the day but in the end i also go back to my “main”,.

Quite so, FuriousPop, i can only agree.

The way I am solving this and many other problems is simple. I am just going to stop playing the game the same way I did for 8 months already. Ascended armor is not the reason for me but combine it with what has been added and all it says is this game is not for me. Good luck to you who like and enjoy the game.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

And keep in mind that Ascended Armors are top of the line BiS gear. It’s not meant to be able to get easily or quickly.

Well, yeah, that’s exactly the problem, isn’kitten

Mimizu.7340:

Regardless of how you word it, one of your characters is your main.
No matter how exacting or equal you think you are being with each of your character’s playtime, one of them has been played longer than all the rest.

Interesting. By that definition, my main would be the character i don’t even play at all anymore.
And the character i consider my main would be a second alt.
Funny how that works, right?

Victory.2879:

I think the replies have highlighted the issue, which is that there is no alternative way to obtain it.

For those in small guilds, guild commendations don’t exist.

For those that loath the sight of fractals, another avenue s closed.

The simple solution is to make ascended stuff tradeable before worn, so those with a oversupply of laurels can utilise them and those with neither the time nor the inclination to enter fractals, be in a big guild, or who just want to kit out their mains (3 or 4 of them, 1-4 armor sets each) can also do so.

Games are supposed to be FUN, not a series of daily chores for months on end in order to kit your toons out so that you can do the things you want to do and not be outclassed by the ‘I have one main haha’ brigade.

Some of us actually log in to games to enjoy themselves and do the stuff we feel like doing, not be forced into artificial pathways by bad game design- which leads to us quitting sooner or later or looking around for something else to do.

Wait. You say that there’s no alternative, but then go on to list the actual alternatives. So the issue isn’t the requirements or the game itself. It’s the player who refuses to put in effort to get something.

Do you just want all the stuff handed to you? If so, that’s the definition of Entitlement.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

More corrections:

1) There’s a difference between grinding mats, and actually getting the mats to drop. T6 drop, but not as often as one would like. T5 mats and lower are a bit more common, so grind usually takes care of these. The higher tiers require both time and luck. The RNG makes it so that rare drops stay rare, thus keeping their values as they are. Powerful Blood are the most expensive on the TP, mainly because it’s both rare and in high demand. So yes, it does take effort to collect enough T6+ mats.

2) I was making the point that crafting to level 500 is an expensive task. In order to craft Ascended gear, you must be at level 500, or get luck from drops. Ultimately, Ascended crafting = not cheap.

3) Gating something = effort. If you feel that it’s not worth the time, and don’t choose to slowly gather the required Ascended mats, then you won’t be able to make the gear. Pretty simple. Make the effort, reap the rewards. I’m more than willing to craft my mats once per day in order to gear my characters. I’m in no rush to show off my Ascended armor. The stat increases that come with it won’t make me a superior player in PvE and WvW.

4) You can run dungeons and Fractals all you want. Nothing is stopping you. Dungeons are good for tokens, which you then can trade for armor or weapons. FotM gives you relics to get Ascended rings. Do some WvW for Badges, which you can then use to pick any armor setup you want. Kill Tequatl for his rare Ascended weapon chests he drops.

Ascended > Exotic, but not necessary. If you want the Ascended gear, make the effort to get it. Otherwise, stick with Exotics, and enjoy the game.

You are correcting things that aren’t wrong and worse still, you’re not even reading what I said before launching into your blind defense of a gear grind. That or you really don’t understand it because some of your responses don’t even make sense to what I was saying. You are blindly running to the defense of something from what you perceive to be an attack and making points that have nothing to do with what I am saying.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Do you just want all the stuff handed to you? If so, that’s the definition of Entitlement.

And this is the argument you are standing behind on everything here. From what I’m reading, this is not the case at all.
To be honest, it sounds more like that’s what you want as the current method of acquisition caters to this mentality.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You can also use Guild Commendations to get amulets

you might want to recheck that because Guild Commendations only have accessories…..

Becka Williams.4978:

HardRider.2980:

Please list “where” you need ascended items to progress in the game?

Yer it’s a lot and takes quite a lot of time to make.. but as their not required for anything atm, there is no rush to get them

If you don’t NEED it, why does it exist?

Because some people think an mmo without grind is no fun. Ascended is for these people.
If you love your alts, just don’t aim at ascended.

Also, if you need exotic armor, buy now!

Victory.2879:

Now if you have more than one set of armor for each toon, and want infusions, you’ll be waiting MONTHS to be able to complete one set.

Don’t worry dude, everything comes to those who wait :s

Wow … I mean … wow … am I the only one who played an asia grinder once? It’s awesome that you have to work hard for laurels. I like the system.

Xyonon.3987:

Wow … I mean … wow … am I the only one who played an asia grinder once? It’s awesome that you have to work hard for laurels. I like the system.

I did …. lineage 2, granado espada, and many F2p also…

if you look at how much time is needed to equip a character from 0 to full ascended they will pale in comparison…

And then you see this game has STATS tied to EQUIP and to change build you need more than 1 set

This is AS grinding AS any korean mmorpg….just, rather than releasing all ascended pieces at one time, they release few at a time.

I have a couple points to chime in on here.

1. In what MMO (this excludes Guild Wars 1, which was a co-op RPG) have you ever been able to get BiS for every character you have at level cap easily or quickly? Zero. Stop holding this game to an unreasonable standard.

2. Since when was BiS considered “gearing up” in this game? Did you anti-pink-gear guys forget that Exotics are already above the power curve of the game? Exotics let you smash on every piece of PvE content until you get to high-level fractals. If you’re going on a tear about WvW, get a better understanding of the game, because you should know that gear won’t carry you.

I’m also really tired of reading “I CAN’T EXPERIMENT WITH BUILDS.” Yes you can, there’s this rarity called “Exotic.” I’m sure you’ve seen the orange text before. This is the rarity to experiment with. It’s cheap and readily available by many, many avenues.

Being unreasonable isn’t a convincing argument to make, and that’s all this thread is.

I play this game for fun. I try to play this game every day, but got about 1-2hours a day only.
One of my alts is elementalist.

When Celestial Exotic ws introduced, i wanted to try it on my elementalist at it seems perfect for my playstyle with this toon.

But then I logged into game, guildies were trying to make a group for WvW and I joined them. I just forgot to go to bank to withdraw Quartz, then go to Place of power and change Quartz for Charged ones. But we had so much fun there in WvW.

Next day when I logged in, guildies want to go to dungeon. Again I forget to go to bank,then to Place of power, but in that dungeon it was fun.

Third day…..

Until now I was not able to made single Celestial Exotic for my Elementalist because going to bank, then to Place of power.

I have rings from Fractals, as they were quite fun in party, I have amulet bought by Commendations as Guild missions are fun with good guild, I even have earings bought by Badges as i do WvW on daily basics.

Ascended weapons were introduces.
Wow so much gold to craft to 500.
What? It is time gated? Ok, ill just wait adn buy some on TP.
What it is Account bound?

So no Ascended for me as I have several alts and i upgrade keeps/towers in WvW so I am low on money all the time. I have maybe 40gold, but with those prices? Or spend time relogging and farming mats instead of spending time with friends in dungeons/wvw/fractals ?

And now Ascended armor was introduced on same principles as Ascended weapons.

So I say: screw ascended, i want to play this game with friends, not without them. I want to go to dungeon with 4 guildies than to Orr to get some Orichalcum.

But I just hope, there wont be more time-gated weapons/armor in this game, as the difference between exotic and Ascended might be like 5-6% but what abount next tier of weapons/armor?
In 1 year Anet added one new tier of weapons/armor. We have another year in front, will we see new time-gated armor or weapons?

Hule.8794:

In 1 year Anet added one new tier of weapons/armor. We have another year in front, will we see new time-gated armor or weapons?

I highly doubt it.

Look for Infusions increasing in power, though.

Mackdose.6504:

1. In what MMO (this excludes Guild Wars 1, which was a co-op RPG) have you ever been able to get BiS for every character you have at level cap easily or quickly? Zero. Stop holding this game to an unreasonable standard.

1. “In every MMO” – “everyone is doing it”, or “it has always been that way” was never a good argument against changing things for the better. Or for changing things for the worse.

2. Even if i agreed with you on the “non MMO” part about GW1 (and i don’t), it has no bearing whatsoever on the argument at hand. GW1 proved, that this is in fact possible. Ignoring it because the game was labeled slightly differently doesn’t make that fact suddenly go away. It only makes you look desperate to ignore arguments that do not fit your theory.

3. I can hold the game to this standard, because the game once promised to hold to that standard.

4. I don’t consider it unreasonable. You may, but (like in my case) it’s just your personal opinion.

Mackdose.6504:

Did you anti-pink-gear guys forget that Exotics are already above the power curve of the game? Exotics let you smash on every piece of PvE content until you get to high-level fractals.

For some, yes. For some, not so much. And the curve, partly due to existence of ascended, i bet, seems to be shifting already.

Mackdose.6504:

If you’re going on a tear about WvW, get a better understanding of the game, because you should know that gear won’t carry you.

It won’t carry me, but it sure as hell is going to help.

Mackdose.6504:

Being unreasonable isn’t a convincing argument to make, and that’s all this thread is.

Agreed. We seem to disagree however on what’s exactly being unreasonable here.

Mackdose.6504:

Hule.8794:

In 1 year Anet added one new tier of weapons/armor. We have another year in front, will we see new time-gated armor or weapons?

I highly doubt it.

Look for Infusions increasing in power, though.

Agreed, i don’t expect another tier, or even level cap raise, in 2014. It’s too soon. In 2015 however, they will need to feed their vertical progress crowd again.

Yes. Ascended for crafting only sucks a lot.

Astralporing.1957:

1. “In every MMO” – “everyone is doing it”, or “it has always been that way” was never a good argument against changing things for the better. Or for changing things for the worse.

But it does set the standard of what is a reasonable request and what isn’t. If I went to any MMO forum and requested that I should have all of my characters geared BiS in even 3 months, I’d be flamed to death. 3 months isn’t enough time in other MMOs to even have a main geared in BiS. Perhaps you should get some perspective before implying that this game is unfriendly to alts.

You don’t need BiS on every character to enjoy your characters, or the game. You aren’t missing out on content by not having BiS. Making Ascended gear easier to get would defeat the point of why it was introduced in the first place, not to mention be a slap in the face of everyone who’s worked for it.

2. Even if i agreed with you on the “non MMO” part about GW1 (and i don’t), it has no bearing whatsoever on the argument at hand. GW1 proved, that this is in fact possible. Ignoring it because the game was labeled slightly differently doesn’t make that fact suddenly go away. It only makes you look desperate to ignore arguments that do not fit your theory.

First off, ArenaNet’s label for the game is CORPG. Whether you agree with the label is irrelevant. GW1 was designed completely differently using different design goals than GW2. GW2 is a western MMO, Guild Wars is not. [source: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars]

3. I can hold the game to this standard, because the game once promised to hold to that standard.

Exotics are easy to get on every character. Promise fulfilled.

For some, yes. For some, not so much. And the curve, partly due to existence of ascended, i bet, seems to be shifting already.

Cite your sources, or this is pure speculation.

It won’t carry me, but it sure as hell is going to help.

Get a pink weapon then, as that will be the largest part of your damage increase. You hardly need every slot for every character.

I think I am going to leave this game if they don’t change the laurel time gating. Plain and simple. Im fine with the material time gating and all that other stuff. But I cannot play competitive World v World and Guild v Guild with competitive guilds without this equipment. They literally will not accept anything less than the best stats and I cannot provide them in a timely manner with the laurel time gating.

Xyonon.3987:

Wow … I mean … wow … am I the only one who played an asia grinder once? It’s awesome that you have to work hard for laurels. I like the system.

Who’s working hard for laurels? Login once a day for 20mins and you’re done. Phew worked up a sweat doing todays.

I believe the biggest problem that this laurel thing stems from is that there is no choice. Noone is wanting is easily. Noone has said that, that I can see.
Its grind it out (either direct or for coin), do stupid easy dailies and craft it. Thats it. This isn’t earning it, nor is it difficult. I’m not against putting time in or working for BiS gear. I am against being forced to mat grind so I can indulge in crafting that I loathe to do.
There’s no option to actually work for it via any other means. RNG drops in Fractals/Tequatl do not count as another viable means. Noone should have to ask why.

MrRuin.9740:

Xyonon.3987:

Wow … I mean … wow … am I the only one who played an asia grinder once? It’s awesome that you have to work hard for laurels. I like the system.

Who’s working hard for laurels? Login once a day for 20mins and you’re done. Phew worked up a sweat doing todays.

I believe the biggest problem that this laurel thing stems from is that there is no choice. Noone is wanting is easily. Noone has said that, that I can see.
Its grind it out (either direct or for coin), do stupid easy dailies and craft it. Thats it. This isn’t earning it, nor is it difficult. I’m not against putting time in or working for BiS gear. I am against being forced to mat grind so I can indulge in crafting that I loathe to do.
There’s no option to actually work for it via any other means. RNG drops in Fractals/Tequatl do not count as another viable means. Noone should have to ask why.

If you hate being forced to grind… then stop forcing yourself. It’s you, not the game, that demands the need for grinding. The moment you realize that you can play this game normally without Ascended gear, is the day you free yourself from the “grind argument”.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If you hate being forced to grind… then stop forcing yourself. It’s you, not the game, that demands the need for grinding. The moment you realize that you can play this game normally without Ascended gear, is the day you free yourself from the “grind argument”.

No, it is not needed. I am fully aware nothing needs this gear. Nothing needs exotic for that matter. Noone is arguing the points you are making.
Its there as BiS gear. The best you can get. Noone wants it handed to them. Noone wants it quick and easy. Noone is asking for this. The implementation and acquisition of it is whats being argued. Noone wants to remove the current process.
Other options other than the crafting for obtaining this endgame BiS gear is whats wanted. Not an easier way. Not a faster way. Alternate ways. The moment you realize this is the moment you stop arguing against points noone is making in a blind defense mechanism.
While you might view time-gated crafting as some sort of challenge, many people obviously do not. It’s not about having catered to the way I want it either. Right now its only catering to grinders and crafters. If you don’t like that, you are being forced to do it for whats supposed to be endgame BiS gear or just have to sit out whats supposed to be endgame gearing.
For the record, I am not grinding this gear. I don’t want to and refuse to . I want other methods that actually do require effort.

Why are you so adamantly against players wanting legitimate, alternate ways to earn Ascended gear? By leaving the current method in game and adding a 2nd or 3rd alternate method of acquisition affects you how, exactly? Especially if said alternate methods were difficult, required time and effort? Just not grinding mats and crafting. And I’m not talking about easier, speedier methods. Ones of equal difficulty. Its an odd thing to be against which would improve the game substantially by opening up is BiS gear to multiple options of gameplay, thus appealing to a wider market of players.
I’m really curious as to why you are so opposed to this.

As time goes on, Anet can release new content or events that might provide you an opportunity to get Ascended gear. For now, the guaranteed way to get it is to craft it. For those who don’t like crafting, that’s fine. They don’t need to force themselves to craft. Buy Exotic gear off of the TP, and be happy.

The argument at hand is that players want something, but don’t like the method. So the choice is theirs to make. If you really want BiS, you do what you need to do in order to get it. If crafting isn’t your thing, pray for ultra rare drops. If you don’t like either of those options, stick with Exotics, as they’re nearly as good as Ascended.

So basically you have no reason to, are not really opposed to it and are just arguing against any suggestion about it simply because thats how it is now. And even agreeing with what I’ve been saying all this time, while continuing to argue against what you just said.
Arguing for arguments sake. Gotcha.

MrRuin.9740:

So basically you have no reason to, are not really opposed to it and are just arguing against any suggestion about it simply because thats how it is now.
Arguing for arguments sake. Gotcha.

Exactly. The argument that there are no alternative methods is moot. You can either craft Ascended gear, or have Exotics.