Guild Wars 2

If OP thinks ascended crafting is bad, I can’t wait to see his post when Anet releases the process for obtaining a precursor.

You feel bad now, wait till you decide you need a new build with new gear.

Lishtenbird.2814:

The time gate is there for economic reasons too.

As stated by devs (and common sense), high-level crafters should be able to make money out of it – in this case, by providing their service of daily crafting on TP. That’s important since almost everything else drops in excessive amounts and can be bought cheaper than the materials you’d need to craft it.

i dont know about right now, but there was a signifigant amount of time where selling the time gated materials was at a loss.

I find it interesting how the community tends to react.

People run full zerker groups because it’s slightly faster. Obviously every bit of an advantage matters, so does 5%+ stat increase.
Yet when someone points out what a grind ascended is “pff, you don’t need it”.

I wonder how many people think ascended is not needed but feel zerker needs a nerf because it’s to popular for giving a slight advantage that is also not needed.

If stats are not important, why the recent Might nerf? The loss of 5 power per stack
with 25 stacks (125 Power) is an approximate 5.3% reduction in total power assuming a power attribute of 1500 from base/gear/traits, etc. [125/(1500+875)]. Ascended weapons provide an approximate 5% increase in damage just from weapon strength, not considering the stat increases provided by a full set of Ascended.

Why was the Might reduction considered necessary? It was done because certain professions can stack might more readily than others. Sure, Ascended gear can be obtained by anyone (and of course does not apply in sPvP). However, don’t say that a “minor” stat difference doesn’t matter, because ANet does not agree with you.

Rage.4693:

I am truely shocked that nobody agree’s with Milennin. has everybody forgotten what GW2’s goal was compared to other mmo’s.

One of those things was a fair combat system that was based on one’s skill. and not based on how good your worn equipment is.

Taking a look back at GW1 You where able to obtain the max-level gear fairly honestly. You might not have gotten the armor or weapons that suited your cosmetic taste but atleast they provided a statline that was the same as every other max level gear in the game. If you wished to have a specific armor it was merely a cosmetic change! Making the grind for your armor skin the only grind in the game. which is perfectly fine because it doesn’t effect the gameplay itself. But the Ascended gear in it’s current form DOES.

And that is the main issue here people. A full exotic set was obtainable (for example: )with a stack of karma that you would have saved up and obtained over your adventure leveling from 1 to 80. this was FAIR! You where able to get your max level gear and where equally strong as everyone else on your level.

Which is why the Ascended Gear shouldhave been nothing more then a cosmetic change to your character. because now you can only bring your character to it’s maximum potentional by grinding for a TON of resources. which goes completely against what this entire game stood for when it was being made.

I agree with you and with Milennin.

My issue with Ascended gear is that I have 6 characters, of which, admittedly, I mainly play 4, and equipping them with BiS gear would be a nightmare. It’s not just the time-gating that’s depressing, but the sheer cost of the Ascended materials I’d have to buy if I wanted to bypass that time-gate. And if I decide not to buy the bolts of Damask or Deldrimor steel, I have to waste time either gathering lower tier materials or farm gold to buy said materials. Speaking of which, what’s the logic behind requiring numerous lower tier materials in order to craft the top tier material (it may have to do with keeping lower level zones still relevant). And why does a Spool of Silk Weaving Thread require 100 bolts of silk and not 50 like the equivalents for leather and metal?

I know this criticism is coming too late and that it probably won’t change anything. But I do think this discussion is still relevant in light of the upcoming expansion. Because I’m wondering whether the difficulty of the enemies will be scaled around people equipped in exotic gear like it currently is, or if Arenanet will assume most people have characters in full ascended gear.

And by the way, it’s a bit sad that so many people here were so quick to put down Milennin. ‘Grind for gold’ or ‘you don’t need Ascended gear’ are not arguments. Neither is the classic by now, ‘I play casually and have my characters in full Ascended gear’. The issue here is the cost, the time-gating and the convoluted way of crafting a single piece of Ascended armour or weapon. And most importantly, the fact that you can only realistically obtain Ascended armour or weapons through crafting. Were it available in other ways, it would have been a different story.

Ascended gear should be guaranteed drop from last boss in mid tier and higher fractals. I would rather grind it this way than by farming gold/mats.

The lack of agreement might have something to do with the attitude/tone of the OP. If you come onto the forum and start bashing, throwing out swears and negativism, and putting people on the defensive, be prepared to be met with resistance.

If you have 500 craft, you can craft 1 Ascended armor / weapon piece per day, at least that’s how fast I get my ascended stuff.

I don’t do anything out of the extraordinary, I just run dungeons everyday. The basic gold reward and selling the recycled materials on trade post net me about 50-60g daily.

IndigoSundown.5419:

If stats are not important, why the recent Might nerf?

It was done for sPvP and sPvP only and have nothing to do with PvE or ascended. PvP need more fine tuning of your numbers because you need balance between profession. Celestial Amulet + Might stack is a huge meta right now in pvp and they were a bit too strong compare to other build.

We are not saying that its not important. But gw2 in PvE have A LOT of little thing that boost your dmg. A potion costing 2 silver will boost your dmg by 10% and your defense by a 10%, still not that many ppl are using them when they run dungeon and still at least twice more powerful than a full ascended armor.

Terrahero.9358:

I find it interesting how the community tends to react.

People run full zerker groups because it’s slightly faster. Obviously every bit of an advantage matters, so does 5%+ stat increase.
Yet when someone points out what a grind ascended is “pff, you don’t need it”.

I wonder how many people think ascended is not needed but feel zerker needs a nerf because it’s to popular for giving a slight advantage that is also not needed.

This is a gross misunderstanding of the issue.

I don’t think that Zerker needs a nerf per se, but the problem with Zerker is related to build diversity. Stats scaling in a fixed way on tiers of gear have virtually nothing to do with that.

I seriously don’t know why people think that Ascended is a grind. I am a casual player, and was still able to get a full set of Ascended weapons/armor and trinkets. (granted it was heavy Ascended, but still). People tend to want things quickly. Thats why it feels like a grind. Instead of playing normally, and aquiring the stuff along the way, they feel that they must have it NOW. I can understand that to a degree. You want to have whatever advantage you can get. But it takes time. The ascended mats do seem to take the most time, however if you are just playing normally you can generally get those things fairly quickly. I have personally deleted over 2000 of each thing, and still have more than enough for at least 2 more sets of ascended. It’s not THAT hard to come by.

My point is, if you are in a rush, and feel you need it right now, then it will feel like a grind. If you aren’t worried about how long it takes to get it, then you’ll have all the stuff you need, and more, before you know it.

Thaddeus.4891:

IndigoSundown.5419:

If stats are not important, why the recent Might nerf?

It was done for sPvP and sPvP only and have nothing to do with PvE or ascended. PvP need more fine tuning of your numbers because you need balance between profession. Celestial Amulet + Might stack is a huge meta right now in pvp and they were a bit too strong compare to other build.

We are not saying that its not important. But gw2 in PvE have A LOT of little thing that boost your dmg. A potion costing 2 silver will boost your dmg by 10% and your defense by a 10%, still not that many ppl are using them when they run dungeon and still at least twice more powerful than a full ascended armor.

I was not replying to statements that the Ascended increase did not matter in PvE. WvW is PvP, despite people who play it as Player v. Gate.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I was not replying to statements that the Ascended increase did not matter in PvE. WvW is PvP, despite people who play it as Player v. Gate.

You were talking about might nerf. Might nerf is for spvp where there is no ascended gear. Just didn’t see the point of your argument.

x.X this should probably be merged with:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-grind-philosophy

That’s been going on for 11 days now…

People that argue that it’s not a grind generally seem to say:

• You don’t need it (If you don’t need something, you don’t need to grind for it! (But oddly enough the grind still remains there, you just don’t need to do it.))
• It’s only a grind if you make it/It’s not a grind compared to other games/It’s not a grind for me! (Having a hard to making it not a grind. Other games? Yeah it’s probably a turn-off in those games as well. And well aren’t you special!)
• It’s only 5% stat increase (Thanks for point out how much the stats increase, what about the grind?)

You don’t need it…

Zero Day.2594:

x.X this should probably be merged with:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-grind-philosophy

That’s been going on for 11 days now…

People that argue that it’s not a grind generally seem to say:

• You don’t need it (If you don’t need something, you don’t need to grind for it! (But oddly enough the grind still remains there, you just don’t need to do it.))
• It’s only a grind if you make it/It’s not a grind compared to other games/It’s not a grind for me! (Having a hard to making it not a grind. Other games? Yeah it’s probably a turn-off in those games as well. And well aren’t you special!)
• It’s only 5% stat increase (Thanks for point out how much the stats increase, what about the grind?)

Yea, but the gains are so negligible it’s like saying that doing 100% game completion in anything is considered necessary. And frankly, if you’re in the .00001% of people who min-max and theorycraft dungeon speed runs and are in a tier of players which set these records, that is frankly a taxing, repetitious grind in itself. To cry about BiS gear and optimization means absolutely nothing if that’s the context. Especially when so many of these people have done so much PvE that their cash stacks are border-line overflowing.

It’s like stating AP should be based upon account age and not the completion of content just because people want the rewards NAO wit no other justification than “I don’t like to do that content and it’s unfair that newb gets 1% more gold than me.”

See, ascended armor/weapon crafting is extremely easy for some people if their normal habits are conducive to getting the materials; I.E., hardcore WvW players.

On a given Friday night on reset, I can expect to earn around 200 silk, 15g, and at least a stack of each of the ascended materials. This of course is absolutely not at all a grind to me due to the fact I prefer playing in WvW over everything else.

Should there be more ways to get the materials? Yes and no. I’d rather just see the dependency on silk decrease/correspond to the other materials like leather/mithril which are worthless and make more sense.

Is time-gating an issue? Not really now, no. At least not for ascended crafting. You can easily buy the materials needed for the actual pieces themselves. I’ve crafted 5-6 weapons on-demand by getting the pre-crafted items through the TP because of impatience/lack of time. Is it cheaper to make them the slow way? Absolutely. But it should be. Otherwise it creates market instability. Time-gating is really bad in a lot of other aspects of the game – especially in terms of consumable items – such that there are 30 minute duration food items that are account-bound and can only be made once per day. That extremely limited duration of effect for the amount of input time needed artificially spikes the price to monstrous extents; the cost of the materials to make them is around 1/8 of the cost of the finished product. Last I checked, damask requires several-gold’s worth of materials, anyways, and buys for around 13. Time-gating is definitely something that needs to be re-considered for many aspects of the game, but I do not believe it is overly-punishing for ascended crafting.

Ascended gear is not hard to get so much as it is a commitment. Doing dungeons all day will earn one plenty of gold, but one shouldn’t expect BiS gear while spamming the wrong type of content and spending all of their saved cash on expensive skins or alts.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Ascended is a long term goal with a less than 5% stat increase.

Can we stop with the misinformation? The ascended weapon alone gives more than 5% dps.

Full ascended is about 9-12% stronger than full exotic. Sure it’s about 5% more stats, but weapon strength >>>>>>> stats.

PS: I don’t mean to single you out individually, but this misinformation is not helpful regardless of good/bad motive.

Dinks.2478:

Time gates are a lazy and artificial way to extend content life.

Typically yes, but the economic impact that this time gate has created is a good thing. It’s quite the intelligent use of a time gate, something you don’t see often.

OMG 5 days!!!!!!! … I’m going back to Carebears Online.

Dave.2536:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Ascended is a long term goal with a less than 5% stat increase.

Can we stop with the misinformation? The ascended weapon alone gives more than 5% dps.

Full ascended is about 9-12% stronger than full exotic. Sure it’s about 5% more stats, but weapon strength >>>>>>> stats.

PS: I don’t mean to single you out individually, but this misinformation is not helpful regardless of good/bad motive.

It’s not misinformation. Ascended equipment offers a 5% STAT increase. However, it is also true that with such a stat increase, there is also a small amount of a DPS increase.

For example: Exotic Beserker armor/(single handed) weapons provide 405 power, 288 precision, and 288 Ferocity.

Full Ascended is: 423 power, 302 precision, and 302 ferocity.

A difference of: 18 power, 14 precision, and 14 Ferocity.

An exotic weapon has a damage of 905-1000, and ascended has 950-1050.

So over all, its +45-50 damage, and 18 power, 14 precision, and 14 ferocity. Which is not a 9-12% increase in DPS. Unless you have the calculations on how much damage is increase by each point of power, how much crit chance in improved by each point of precision, and how much crit damage is increase per point of ferocity.

Again, it’s not misinformation.

DeceiverX.8361:

Yea, but the gains are so negligible it’s like saying that doing 100% game completion in anything is considered necessary. And frankly, if you’re in the .00001% of people who min-max and theorycraft dungeon speed runs and are in a tier of players which set these records, that is frankly a taxing, repetitious grind in itself. To cry about BiS gear and optimization means absolutely nothing if that’s the context. Especially when so many of these people have done so much PvE that their cash stacks are border-line overflowing.

The gains are negligible, that’s true, but it doesn’t mean they’re not there. Min-maxing might be viewed to be as extremist from some, but at the same time those that don’t want to have max stats can be viewed weird (like why don’t you want your character to preform at it’s best if you could allow it?) by those that do want to have them. The gain might not be specifically towards a set goal like speed running, or getting that extra edge over an opponent in WvW, but rather allowing your character to be at it’s best.
(Not to be rude, but this kind of falls into “You don’t need it”)

DeceiverX.8361:

It’s like stating AP should be based upon account age and not the completion of content just because people want the rewards NAO wit no other justification than “I don’t like to do that content and it’s unfair that newb gets 1% more gold than me.”

Yeah, don’t get me wrong in the sense that give me something for nothing , no. Exotics were fine to acquire as they were, I haven’t looked but I would be surprised that anyone complained. Plus since then they’ve added diminished returns, while with that they made it a bit harder it’s still not insane.

DeceiverX.8361:

See, ascended armor/weapon crafting is extremely easy for some people if their normal habits are conducive to getting the materials; I.E., hardcore WvW players.

On a given Friday night on reset, I can expect to earn around 200 silk, 15g, and at least a stack of each of the ascended materials. This of course is absolutely not at all a grind to me due to the fact I prefer playing in WvW over everything else.

…

Ascended gear is not hard to get so much as it is a commitment. Doing dungeons all day will earn one plenty of gold, but one shouldn’t expect BiS gear while spamming the wrong type of content and spending all of their saved cash on expensive skins or alts.

Gah… Originally, when I bought this game, I hopped that it would be like gw1 where at the end people chased titles, skins, and made alts without thinking much about gear. Plus at the rate of how you were able to acquire exotics upon release was promising to that as well. Ascended kind of disappointed me in that. Though that’s history, and more of a personal thing. The commitment aspect is what pains me the most though that coupled with “min-maxing”. It means that I better kitten well be sure that the build that I’m running with ascended gear is the build I will be happy with for quite some time. If I want to run another build for some time, then I better be a “hardcore WvW player” or someone with another strategy (for me it’s TP flipping) on acquiring the resources to craft another set.

(Falls into “It’s not a grind for me!”. Though yeah, this part and the one above is more of a “don’t be lazy” which some people do come off as)

DeceiverX.8361:

Is time-gating an issue? Not really now, no. At least not for ascended crafting. You can easily buy the materials needed for the actual pieces themselves. I’ve crafted 5-6 weapons on-demand by getting the pre-crafted items through the TP because of impatience/lack of time. Is it cheaper to make them the slow way? Absolutely. But it should be. Otherwise it creates market instability. Time-gating is really bad in a lot of other aspects of the game – especially in terms of consumable items – such that there are 30 minute duration food items that are account-bound and can only be made once per day. That extremely limited duration of effect for the amount of input time needed artificially spikes the price to monstrous extents; the cost of the materials to make them is around 1/8 of the cost of the finished product. Last I checked, damask requires several-gold’s worth of materials, anyways, and buys for around 13. Time-gating is definitely something that needs to be re-considered for many aspects of the game, but I do not believe it is overly-punishing for ascended crafting.

It’s not so much of an issue as why it’s implemented in the first place. It is an artificial limiter for how fast people can acquire the gear without pony it up. Not sure what they tried to do there besides reduce the rate, I don’t think it was for balancing the markets or making them worthy either (as we know leather and metal is worth less than cloth in most tiers of crafting).

Thaddeus.4891:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I was not replying to statements that the Ascended increase did not matter in PvE. WvW is PvP, despite people who play it as Player v. Gate.

You were talking about might nerf. Might nerf is for spvp where there is no ascended gear. Just didn’t see the point of your argument.

Yes, I can see that. Players who think that the stat difference matters in the competitive environment of WvW are being pooh-poohed with claims that such a small difference does not matter. ANet thinks that ~5% is significant enough to matter in a competitive environment.

Ascended is super cheap these days.

The last feature pack dramatically reduced the costs of leveling crafting.
Mawdrey tanked the price of wood to super cheap.
Wintersday tanked the prices of cloth
The silver wastes drops all ascended materials like candy

All of the time gated materials can be bought for reasonable prices on the TP.

I’ll be blunt.

Getting ascended trinkets/rings/amulets is relatively cheap and fast. 2 week/s trinket, low additional cost, 20 tokens from fractals, if you do the fractal dailies about 2 weeks, the amulets and rings can be bought discount in wvw, as long as you have some tokens.

getting ascended weapons is realtively easy, most materials are obtainabel during normal gameplay, or the gold cost is ~40-60 gold (excluding recipe’s (10 laurels))

getting ascended armor is very timeconsuming due to the neverending timegate on damask, the huge pool of silk and the cost of the recipe’s (35 laurels) 900 gold for full armor, a bit less on medium and heavy

getting ascended backitems is VERY costly for a small increase in stats, but often ofset due to the skins. often about 150-350 gold…

Ascended trinkets are nice giving a subtle stat boost
Ascended weapons are nice giving an instant 5% dmg boost, and a subtle stat boost
Ascended armor is nice but the armor value added doen’t justify the cost, the statboost is subtle and the only remaining beneifit is agony resist.
Ascended backs are not worth it other then providing some agony resist.

I have 1 character in full ascended, including as secondary ascended armor
I have 2 characters with 1 ascended armor piece
I have 9 characters with ascended weapon(s) some have ALL some have only 1 or 2.
(dps war, hybrid war , dps ele, support ele, condi mesmer, support necro, tank guard, dps guard, dps ranger,
I have 12 characters with ascneded trinkets (generally including the backpack. (9 OR 10 oF12)) characters often cary 2 or more sets even.
all except 2 rangers and a necro

I’ve accepted that getting ascended armor is way too grindy and time consuming for me to ever get. I will deal with never having the best armor in the game.

Einlanzer.1627:

Terrahero.9358:

I find it interesting how the community tends to react.

People run full zerker groups because it’s slightly faster. Obviously every bit of an advantage matters, so does 5%+ stat increase.
Yet when someone points out what a grind ascended is “pff, you don’t need it”.

I wonder how many people think ascended is not needed but feel zerker needs a nerf because it’s to popular for giving a slight advantage that is also not needed.

This is a gross misunderstanding of the issue.

I don’t think that Zerker needs a nerf per se, but the problem with Zerker is related to build diversity. Stats scaling in a fixed way on tiers of gear have virtually nothing to do with that.

Yes it does. It’s a player imposed thing. You can’t say ascended doesn’t matter when the community is clearly making every advantage count, and if anyone’s complaining about zerker’s they acknowledge that.

pdavis.8031:

Dave.2536:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Ascended is a long term goal with a less than 5% stat increase.

Can we stop with the misinformation? The ascended weapon alone gives more than 5% dps.

Full ascended is about 9-12% stronger than full exotic. Sure it’s about 5% more stats, but weapon strength >>>>>>> stats.

PS: I don’t mean to single you out individually, but this misinformation is not helpful regardless of good/bad motive.

It’s not misinformation. Ascended equipment offers a 5% STAT increase. However, it is also true that with such a stat increase, there is also a small amount of a DPS increase.

For example: Exotic Beserker armor/(single handed) weapons provide 405 power, 288 precision, and 288 Ferocity.

Full Ascended is: 423 power, 302 precision, and 302 ferocity.

A difference of: 18 power, 14 precision, and 14 Ferocity.

An exotic weapon has a damage of 905-1000, and ascended has 950-1050.

So over all, its +45-50 damage, and 18 power, 14 precision, and 14 ferocity. Which is not a 9-12% increase in DPS. Unless you have the calculations on how much damage is increase by each point of power, how much crit chance in improved by each point of precision, and how much crit damage is increase per point of ferocity.

Again, it’s not misinformation.

Exotic weapon strength 952.5 average
Ascended weapon strength 1000 average

From weapon strength alone, +5.0% (which alone refutes the claim of “less than 5%”)

Full ascended zerker (armor/weapon/trinkets) is around +90 power/50 ferocity/50 precision over full exotic. Power is easy to calculate (~2400 power on full exotic with 6 in the power trait line, 2490 with full ascended ==> +3.75%).

+50 precision and ferocity would be a gain of at least 2% on the lower bound.

Multiplying all these things together...1.05 × 1.0375 × 1.02 = 1.11%

So 11% gives us a good baseline. Lower with more buffs (primarily power), and higher if our estimate of 2% should be significantly higher.

I’m also not here to argue semantics. The context of “stat” clearly was referencing performance, or overall dps, and even if not intended that way, would be perceived that way.

“Technically correct” no longer works for me when trying to spread misinformation.

PS: please don’t cite stat figures on exotic vs ascended without including jewelry, because the bulk of the stat points are there. For ascended weapons the bulk of the improvement is weapon strength, and for armor it is in armor rating.

Fernling.1729:

I’ve accepted that getting ascended armor is way too grindy and time consuming for me to ever get. I will deal with never having the best armor in the game.

Why not just think of it as a long term goal, and work on it in the background, without really trying? (as I have)

Crafting in this fashion without trying much I have a set of medium armor, a rifle, 2 pistols, and a short bow.

Dave.2536:

pdavis.8031:

Dave.2536:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Ascended is a long term goal with a less than 5% stat increase.

Can we stop with the misinformation? The ascended weapon alone gives more than 5% dps.

Full ascended is about 9-12% stronger than full exotic. Sure it’s about 5% more stats, but weapon strength >>>>>>> stats.

PS: I don’t mean to single you out individually, but this misinformation is not helpful regardless of good/bad motive.

It’s not misinformation. Ascended equipment offers a 5% STAT increase. However, it is also true that with such a stat increase, there is also a small amount of a DPS increase.

For example: Exotic Beserker armor/(single handed) weapons provide 405 power, 288 precision, and 288 Ferocity.

Full Ascended is: 423 power, 302 precision, and 302 ferocity.

A difference of: 18 power, 14 precision, and 14 Ferocity.

An exotic weapon has a damage of 905-1000, and ascended has 950-1050.

So over all, its +45-50 damage, and 18 power, 14 precision, and 14 ferocity. Which is not a 9-12% increase in DPS. Unless you have the calculations on how much damage is increase by each point of power, how much crit chance in improved by each point of precision, and how much crit damage is increase per point of ferocity.

Again, it’s not misinformation.

Exotic weapon strength 952.5 average
Ascended weapon strength 1000 average

From weapon strength alone, +5.0% (which alone refutes the claim of “less than 5%”)

Full ascended zerker (armor/weapon/trinkets) is around 90 power/50 ferocity/+50 precision over full exotic. Power is easy to calculate (~2400 power on full exotic with 6 in the power trait line, 2490 with full ascended ==> +3.75%).

+50 precision and ferocity would be a gain of at least 2% on the lower bound.

Multiplying all these things together...1.05 × 1.0375 × 1.02 = 1.11%

So 11% gives us a good baseline. Lower with more buffs (primarily power), and higher if our estimate of 2% should be significantly higher.

I’m also not here to argue semantics. The context of “stat” clearly was referencing performance, or overall dps, and even if not intended that way, would be perceived that way.

“Technically correct” no longer works for me when trying to spread misinformation.

PS: please don’t cite stat figures on exotic vs ascended without including jewelry, because the bulk of the stat points are there. For ascended weapons the bulk of the improvement is weapon strength, and for armor it is in armor rating.

While you can include jewelry, in the context of crafting ascended you can only include weapons and armor, as jewelry is not craftable.

However, While it may be an increase of ~11% DPS, the fact is that there is only a ~5% increase in over all stats of ascended vs exotics. It is a boost? Of course. No one is denying that. Is it a game breaking boost? Not really. One can still do everything (high level fractals excluded) while wearing exotic. It will technically take ~11% longer. (in a 10 minute dungeon run, it’s a 1 minute 6 second different).

CMM.6712:

Fernling.1729:

I’ve accepted that getting ascended armor is way too grindy and time consuming for me to ever get. I will deal with never having the best armor in the game.

Why not just think of it as a long term goal, and work on it in the background, without really trying? (as I have)

Crafting in this fashion without trying much I have a set of medium armor, a rifle, 2 pistols, and a short bow.

I guess it’s possible. I haven’t even considered it for a long time now. Last time I thought about it, I thought it was way too much for me to mess with. Especially when there would be 3 different sets needed.

Your are 1.5 years late to the anti-ascended party.
People who dislike ascended gears already said w/e you have to say back then, and
Anet didn’t do anything to change it, so what makes you think they are going to change it now?
On the bright side, Ascended gears will be the BIS items forever so it’s much better than other games out there, you only have to grind them once.

Perfectionists/ completionists need ascended gear, I don’t necessarily think it’s a grind. The way ascended gear is made you will never be able to instantly get them, you have to wait several days just to complete a set…

It’s a grind if you want variety either in builds, professions, accounts etc.

pdavis.8031:

While you can include jewelry, in the context of crafting ascended you can only include weapons and armor, as jewelry is not craftable.

Again, context seemed to have shifted the situation to comparing the gear tiers overall. I would also personally advocate just weapon and trinkets (not armor) to anyone not interested in high level fractals (where the AR slots matter) or WvW (where the armor rating matters).

I understood the semantics, but posted my response in spite of it because my response is ultimately not to you or the guy before, but to the others who may read this thread and mistakenly pull the wrong context out of it.

PS: ascended trinkets may be a bigger grind to some people than the weapon or even armor. Backpieces cost more than a weapon or armor piece. Some people can’t stand joining a guild for missions. Altoholics and people with multiple setups get laurel capped. Not everyone does fractals.

it seems the OP didn’t get the idea that ascended is actually for people who always run high level fractals.

he mentioned about how bad ascended is when down scaled, well, you don’t really need ascended at low level areas because there is no need for agony resistance there in the first place, lol.

remember, ascended armor = for high level fractals.

if you don’t do much fractals, or only do scale 20 at max, use exo armor, and get those rings/accessories to slot in agony resistance.

azizul.8469:

it seems the OP didn’t get the idea that ascended is actually for people who always run high level fractals.

he mentioned about how bad ascended is when down scaled, well, you don’t really need ascended at low level areas because there is no need for agony resistance there in the first place, lol.

remember, ascended armor = for high level fractals.

if you don’t do much fractals, or only do scale 20 at max, use exo armor, and get those rings/accessories to slot in agony resistance.

If it’s only about high level fractals and increasing agony resistance…
Why did they increase normal stats?
Why couldn’t they have added a way to “infuse” exotics which would open up an infusion slot for you to add agony resist.

Zero Day.2594:

azizul.8469:

it seems the OP didn’t get the idea that ascended is actually for people who always run high level fractals.

he mentioned about how bad ascended is when down scaled, well, you don’t really need ascended at low level areas because there is no need for agony resistance there in the first place, lol.

remember, ascended armor = for high level fractals.

if you don’t do much fractals, or only do scale 20 at max, use exo armor, and get those rings/accessories to slot in agony resistance.

If it’s only about high level fractals and increasing agony resistance…
Why did they increase normal stats?
Why couldn’t they have added a way to “infuse” exotics which would open up an infusion slot for you to add agony resist.

negligible difference you can always live with…..

I heard back when ascended first came out that the difference in stats was between 11 and 12% more. Some guy did the calculations.

Someone on this thread said less than 5%.

Anyone care to show me the math? 10%+ is a lot in my book if it is true.

petespri.6548:

I heard back when ascended first came out that the difference in stats was between 11 and 12% more. Some guy did the calculations.

Someone on this thread said less than 5%.

Anyone care to show me the math? 10%+ is a lot in my book if it is true.

petespri.6548:

I heard back when ascended first came out that the difference in stats was between 11 and 12% more. Some guy did the calculations.

Someone on this thread said less than 5%.

Anyone care to show me the math? 10%+ is a lot in my book if it is true.

Exotic heavy armor

Defense: 1211
primary stat: 315
secondary: 224
secondary: 224

Ascended heavy armor

Defense: 1271
primary stat: 329
secondary: 235
secondary: 235

Total differentials between Exotic and Ascended (heavy armor sample)
Defense differential: 4.7%
Primary differential: 4.25%
Secondary differential: 4.3%

—It is my belief, based upon these differentials as well as my own personal experience utilizing both ascended and exotic gear, that the differentials do not directly translate as equivalences to damage output/intake.

For example, the 4.7% numerical differential between Exo and Ascended defense rating will almost certainly not equate into a 4.7% difference in damage intake – that’s not how the Defense stat works.

Similarly, a 4.25% differential between 224 Power and 235 Power on an Exo vs Ascended set of Power-primary gear will absolutely not translate into a 4.25% damage output difference. It will translate into a net difference of 14 points of Power.

14 points of Power at level 80 is quite small.

Similarly, an 11 point differential between Exotic and Ascended secondary stats will not yield a 4.3% difference in the output or intake of anything either.

Note: This is strictly looking at Exo vs Ascended armor. When factoring additionally for full Exo vs Ascended trinkets, the stat differences in sum do not rise dramatically.

I can lay the numbers out for that too if’n you like.

Edit: Heck with it, I’m doing it.

Exotic ring (with Exquisite jewel)

Primary: 92
Secondary:63
Secondary: 63

Ascended ring

Primary: 103
Secondary:68
Secondary: 68

Exotic Amulet (with Exquisite jewel)

Primary: 115
Secondary:79
Secondary: 79

Ascended Amulet

Primary: 126
Secondary: 85
Secondary: 85

Exotic Accessory (with Exquisite jewel)

Primary: 81
Secondary: 55
Secondary: 55

Ascended Accessory

Primary: 91
Secondary: 60
Secondary: 60

Trinket stat differences -

Primary: 53 points
Secondary: 26 points

—The differences between Exotic and Ascended trinkets are much more significant than those between Exotic and Ascended armor for base stats, so if you’re concerned about the most valuable upgrades on the Ascended path, go for the trinkets.

Ascended armor alone will not yield dramatic differences in how much damage you can take/how much anything you’ll output. Full ascended trinkets may have a small but noticeable impact given the larger extremity of their differentials – both together will yield all the more difference.

Incidentally, you can get full ascended trinkets just by logging in often enough to get enough laurels to buy them from laurel vendors (will take some months, but is a guaranteed path to getting the exact trinkets you desire).

Furthermore, ascended gear can be slotted with infusions that may grant individually small (up to 5) bonus points to a given stat.

TL;DR — Full infused Ascended gear will yield a significant enough difference to matter when compared to full exotics. Without going through it all in pains-taking detail and just eyeballing it all, I would estimate that if one focused on Primary-statting power and went for all +5 power infusions, full infused Ascended (with weapons) might have ~141 more Power than someone in full Exotic gear of the same stat variety (factoring also for exo vs asc weapon).

In a Zerker build, that’s fairly significant: equivalent to roughly 4.5 stacks of Might under the revised Might values.

Full ascended armor alone: Not very dramatic.

Full ascended armor + all +5 infusions: Approaching significant

Full ascended armor + all ascended trinkets + all +5 infusions: Appreciably significant.

azizul.8469:

Zero Day.2594:

azizul.8469:

it seems the OP didn’t get the idea that ascended is actually for people who always run high level fractals.

he mentioned about how bad ascended is when down scaled, well, you don’t really need ascended at low level areas because there is no need for agony resistance there in the first place, lol.

remember, ascended armor = for high level fractals.

if you don’t do much fractals, or only do scale 20 at max, use exo armor, and get those rings/accessories to slot in agony resistance.

If it’s only about high level fractals and increasing agony resistance…
Why did they increase normal stats?
Why couldn’t they have added a way to “infuse” exotics which would open up an infusion slot for you to add agony resist.

negligible difference you can always live with…..

Didn’t really answer the question did ya?

The question wasn’t how important, or how big of a difference do the stats make? But, why were they increased at all?

also :

• note that total difference of primary stats is only 14 between ascended and exo.. very negligible.

azizul.8469:

also :

• note that total difference of primary stats is only 14 between ascended and exo.. very negligible.

man… you’re really trying to avoid that question, or you don’t have answer for it.

Yeah thanks for pointing out how negligible it is, now back to the question I asked:

Why did they increase normal stats? Why increase them at all?

Zero Day.2594:

azizul.8469:

also :

• note that total difference of primary stats is only 14 between ascended and exo.. very negligible.

man… you’re really trying to avoid that question, or you don’t have answer for it.

well, perhaps anet wanted to make the ascended a bit special as a long term goal, but tried not to make it impact the game so much, which i think the succeed. 14 point is nothing. they could have added 100 points, but they didn’t.

they did admit they made a mistake that they didn’t expect players to get exos so early in the game.

naiasonod.9265:

petespri.6548:

I heard back when ascended first came out that the difference in stats was between 11 and 12% more. Some guy did the calculations.

Someone on this thread said less than 5%.

Anyone care to show me the math? 10%+ is a lot in my book if it is true.

Exotic heavy armor

Defense: 1211
primary stat: 315
secondary: 224
secondary: 224

Ascended heavy armor

Defense: 1271
primary stat: 329
secondary: 235
secondary: 235

Total differentials between Exotic and Ascended (heavy armor sample)
Defense differential: 4.7%
Primary differential: 4.25%
Secondary differential: 4.3%

—It is my belief, based upon these differentials as well as my own personal experience utilizing both ascended and exotic gear, that the differentials do not directly translate as equivalences to damage output/intake.

For example, the 4.7% numerical differential between Exo and Ascended defense rating will almost certainly not equate into a 4.7% difference in damage intake – that’s not how the Defense stat works.

Similarly, a 4.25% differential between 224 Power and 235 Power on an Exo vs Ascended set of Power-primary gear will absolutely not translate into a 4.25% damage output difference. It will translate into a net difference of 14 points of Power.

14 points of Power at level 80 is quite small.

Similarly, an 11 point differential between Exotic and Ascended secondary stats will not yield a 4.3% difference in the output or intake of anything either.

Note: This is strictly looking at Exo vs Ascended armor. When factoring additionally for full Exo vs Ascended trinkets, the stat differences in sum do not rise dramatically.

I can lay the numbers out for that too if’n you like.

You forgot the most important stat: weapon strength. That gives you the remaining half of the 10-12%.

azizul.8469:

Zero Day.2594:

azizul.8469:

also :

• note that total difference of primary stats is only 14 between ascended and exo.. very negligible.

man… you’re really trying to avoid that question, or you don’t have answer for it.

well, perhaps anet wanted to make the ascended a bit special as a long term goal, but tried not to make it impact the game so much, which i think the succeed. 14 point is nothing. they could have added 100 points, but they didn’t.

So really, no reason, besides making it a “bit special”, I guess the ability to slot AR for their intended purpose wasn’t special enough. Or they couldn’t have just made them look cosmetically cooler (make them glow or something).

azizul.8469:

they did admit they made a mistake that they didn’t expect players to get exos so early in the game.

Right, so, they did intended to prolong how fast you acquired your gear…
So they did make it a bit more of a grind?

azizul.8469:

Zero Day.2594:

azizul.8469:

also :

• note that total difference of primary stats is only 14 between ascended and exo.. very negligible.

man… you’re really trying to avoid that question, or you don’t have answer for it.

they did admit they made a mistake that they didn’t expect players to get exos so early in the game.

Colin literally said that we should have the best gear statistically by the time we hit level 80. This was before the launch of the game.

ascended weapon is easy to craft. you can simply buy the mats and they are not that expensive. the only account bound craftable item is the vision crystal.

as for ascended trinkets, they can be bought using laurels and commendations, or even the pristine fractal relics.

when people complain about ascended, usually they complain about the difficulty of getting the ascended armor which requires a lot of materials for a whole set. so the argument has always involve armor, not so much about other items like weapon/trinkets. hence the comparison.

*this is a reply to Dave, forgot to quote.

azizul.8469:

ascended weapon is easy to craft. you can simply buy the mats and they are not that expensive. the only account bound craftable item is the vision crystal.

as for ascended trinkets, they can be bought using laurels and commendations, or even the pristine fractal relics.

when people complain about ascended, usually they complain about the difficulty of getting the ascended armor which requires a lot of materials for a whole set. so the argument has always involve armor, not so much about other items like weapon/trinkets. hence the comparison.

*this is a reply to Dave, forgot to quote.

I’m not sure why I’m being quoted on this. I have 7 sets of ascended armor, about 40 ascended weapons, and ascended trinkets on all 8classes. I do see close to as many complaints about weapons as I do armor, though, seeing how much more expensive weapon crafting disciplines are to level.

To address your point anyways, I think the challenge for most people is actually leveling weapon crafting to 500, and typically getting even the common weapons requires two weapon disciplines to 500. That and many of them don’t know about gw2crafts.net, or find it too initially confusing to take a closer look.

When you’re making a ton of ascended weapons for a ton of classes you do see it as 30-40 gold per weapon. But if, say, you only play a ranger, paying 200-300 gold to level huntsman and weaponsmithing just to make a greatsword, sword, and longbow, then they no longer look like mere 30-40 gold expenditures. Even that recipe cost begins to look significant.

Dave.2536:

You forgot the most important stat: weapon strength. That gives you the remaining half of the 10-12%.

Actually, its trinkets that have the most dramatic effects. Edit: stat-wise, I should specify. Trinkets have the most dramatic stat-based effect. Armor’s is comparatively insignificant on its own (before infusions get factored for on either end).

I’ll make an example out of greatswords for brevity’s sake.

Exotic greatsword
Weapon Strength: 995-1100
Primary: 179
Secondary: 128
Secondary: 128

Ascended greatsword
Weapon Strength: 1045-1155
Primary: 188
Secondary: 134
Secondary: 134

Stat-wise, the differences are present but fairly negligible on their own. The difference in Weapon Strength must be assessed by contrasting their integer values via this equation —

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Now, just eyeballing that equation, I can tell you that you might very well be right, since the multipliers of weapon strength and power would are both increased in Ascended.

Someone with the time to dig up skill coefficients want to math out a contrast? I’d love to, but I’m typing from my phone at work.