"No-grind philosophy"

"No-grind philosophy"

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Posted by: Test.8734

Test.8734

Here we have a full transcript of yesterday’s presentation (thanks to the guy who wrote all that down).

Interestingly, twice Colin mentions “our no-grind philosophy for Guild Wars 2”.

It appears ArenaNet really believes their own Manifesto, when the same Colin said, “We don’t want players to grind”.

We just need to let them know that, between Ascended items and slow dungeon rewards and Legendaries and the new level-based unlocks and the new trait system unlock and etc etc, well… Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

With no grind, they mean no mandatory grind. There is no gear threadmill.
You don’t have to grind in order to keep up. All the grind in this game is just for cosmetics. Sure there is ascended, but that’s only like 5% better than exotic so you don’t really need it.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: masterJP.5048

masterJP.5048

No grinding to have BIS gear , Grinding for Skins (Which is Legendaries and Dungeon rewards) is how they keep you busy and is not required , Which is why they are grindy. Ascended give a small stat increase so I suppose that can be considered grindy. But not that much a increase

Lordy Green , THE Elementalist
Angela Sky , THE Guardian
Orochimarei , THE Necromancer

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Posted by: nGumball.1283

nGumball.1283

‘’There should be no grind, just content and it should be enough to keep people happy for a long time’’.
This is one of the funnies lines I usually read in these forums.

Please sir, find that game that has no grind and only has content and enjoy it for yourself.

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Posted by: Test.8734

Test.8734

No grinding to have BIS gear

BIS gear = Ascended.

Ascended = grindy as hell.

Ergo…

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Please sir, find that game that has no grind and only has content and enjoy it for yourself.

Elder Scrolls
Mass Effect
Fallout
Dragon Age

It’s actually quite easy to make a game with no grind and only content. The thing is, you won’t be able to play it for a loooong time. All of the individual titles in those franchises I played like 100 to 400 hours each. Guild Wars 2 I played 2,500 hours.

And that’s what MMO devs want, to keep you playing. So yea, it is possible, they just won’t do it.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: Herr der Friedhoefe.2490

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490

No grinding to have BIS gear

BIS gear = Ascended.

Ascended = grindy as hell.

Ergo…

Shh…. They don’t like logic around here.

So let’s not mention the stupid number of times you’ll follow your nose around Silverwastes to get the various recipes and skins that you might want.

My posts are facts as I know them, or my own opinion, and do not represent any guild.

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Posted by: Lishtenbird.2814

Lishtenbird.2814

I am more confused by the Masteries. It totally looks like instead of gear grind, we will get skill grind. But on paper? Yes, “no gear treadmill”.

Ascended = grindy as hell.

YMMV. “I should get everything tomorrow” =/= optional long-term goal.

20 level 80s and counting.

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Posted by: nGumball.1283

nGumball.1283

Please sir, find that game that has no grind and only has content and enjoy it for yourself.

Elder Scrolls
Mass Effect
Fallout
Dragon Age

It’s actually quite easy to make a game with no grind and only content. The thing is, you won’t be able to play it for a loooong time. All of the individual titles in those franchises I played like 100 to 400 hours each. Guild Wars 2 I played 2,500 hours.

And that’s what MMO devs want, to keep you playing. So yea, it is possible, they just won’t do it.

I am talking about MMORPGs.
May not have been clear in my original post.

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Posted by: Test.8734

Test.8734

And that’s what MMO devs want, to keep you playing. So yea, it is possible, they just won’t do it.

Which, ironically, came from the days of P2P games. Without that model, having players coming and going as new (paid) content is released could work. But developers are too used to the old mentality, and grind is just too easy to make, that grind is what we get.

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

No grinding to have BIS gear

BIS gear = Ascended.

Ascended = grindy as hell.

Ergo…

Shh…. They don’t like logic around here.

So let’s not mention the stupid number of times you’ll follow your nose around Silverwastes to get the various recipes and skins that you might want.

Well as I said before, Ascended is only 5% better than exotic so it’s not mandatory. You can easily ignore it. Besides you can get partial ascended gear without grinding. Exotic armor/weapons and ascended trinkets is what most of my characters have. Ascended trinkets are kitten easy to get.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: nGumball.1283

nGumball.1283

There isn’t even a point of dicsussing because this is not a discussion thread. You have already made up your mind. So enjoy playing other games and save yourself alot of time because you are wasting both your and our time by aruging without any willingness to logically discuss your opinions.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Here we have a full transcript of yesterday’s presentation (thanks to the guy who wrote all that down).

Interestingly, twice Colin mentions “our no-grind philosophy for Guild Wars 2”.

It appears ArenaNet really believes their own Manifesto, when the same Colin said, “We don’t want players to grind”.

We just need to let them know that, between Ascended items and slow dungeon rewards and Legendaries and the new level-based unlocks and the new trait system unlock and etc etc, well… Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

yes, I find it all very disappointing and misleading. also, it very unfortunate to still see the best in slot legendary gear available via credit card.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Equipping yourself in this game to be competitive has no grind. You don’t need BiS gear or Ascended to complete any of the content or compete in WvW. This is what I believe Anet is saying.

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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

Here we have a full transcript of yesterday’s presentation (thanks to the guy who wrote all that down).

Interestingly, twice Colin mentions “our no-grind philosophy for Guild Wars 2”.

It appears ArenaNet really believes their own Manifesto, when the same Colin said, “We don’t want players to grind”.

We just need to let them know that, between Ascended items and slow dungeon rewards and Legendaries and the new level-based unlocks and the new trait system unlock and etc etc, well… Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

But it’s all optional. I’ve been playing since launch and I have yet to have one character decked out in full Ascended. I don’t care for it and it’s not necessary to play the game. Would I rather Ascended did not exist? Sure. I was one of the vocal people against the introduction of Ascended. But now after all this time I do realize I just don’t NEED Ascended. It’s part of that old MMO type thing that makes you feel that you NEED to have it, but you really don’t. Try to forget the bad habits you’ve learned from other MMOs. Besides, MMOs without any grind whatsoever? Yeah, that’s never going to happen.

(edited by xarallei.4279)

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Posted by: BammBamm.6719

BammBamm.6719

And that’s what MMO devs want, to keep you playing. So yea, it is possible, they just won’t do it.

Which, ironically, came from the days of P2P games. Without that model, having players coming and going as new (paid) content is released could work. But developers are too used to the old mentality, and grind is just too easy to make, that grind is what we get.

not only the devs fault, the mindset of many players too. people think a mmo have to keep them busy over thousands of hours and that doesnt work without timesink through grind. look what happens after every living story update, complains about just a few hours content.
never felt forced to grind in gw2, never found content hidden behind grind. the grind is in the head of the players

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Posted by: Izaya.2906

Izaya.2906

No grinding to have BIS gear

BIS gear = Ascended.

Ascended = grindy as hell.

Ergo…

Time gate is not equal to grind.

Gold for mats probably takes a month tops.

Ascended is only 5% better stats than exotic in level 80 content and equal to exotics in sub 80.

It will be BIS forever if you go with the plans for the first expansion.

I think there is a big difference between “grindy” and wanting things to be served to you in a silver platter without breaking a sweat.

(edited by Izaya.2906)

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Posted by: tom.7468

tom.7468

Don’t take it so literally by grind they mean doing the same boring stuff over and over not that its not going to take time. In archeage you have to kill 500 mobs in the same place for a hasla weapon while competing with many other players for the mob then we are talking about grind. I don’t mind if something takes time to finish especially if its only for asthetics. which it is they say they are not going to add new tiers of gear.

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Posted by: NaotsuguLH.8915

NaotsuguLH.8915

It seems to me that GW2 is your first game ever. I have played several games, and by far it is easiest to lvl up in GW2. Also there are various methods to do it. In most games it’s just kill monsters for experience to level. Which is very slow might I add. The only time I’ve had to “grind” is this weekend during the double exp, however, I mapped for a large part of it, and then did EoTM for the rest. Needless to say, it was not “a boring grind”. I had fun. You don’t have to grind for legendaries. You can take your time ,accumulating progress as you go. I know someone who has almost all the mats for a legendary without buying any, or intentionally trying to get them.

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

I think the “no grind philosophy” is reasonably upheld. But a big deal was made over Mastery being account unlocked. I’m hoping that this suggests they understand that the trait system actually isn’t in line with their vision of the game and finally, finally do something about it.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

With no grind, they mean no mandatory grind. There is no gear threadmill.
You don’t have to grind in order to keep up. All the grind in this game is just for cosmetics. Sure there is ascended, but that’s only like 5% better than exotic so you don’t really need it.

optional or not, there are gear and (forced) crafting (for ascended and legendary) treadmills, and those grinds are not “just for cosmetics”. also, a 5% increase is still an increase, and legendaries are the best in slot gear with their stat versatility.

i understand the devs want character progression, and time and gold sinks, but ascended and legendary armor and weapons could have been handled much differently (see ascended trinkets) that were more akin to the “cosmetic only” grind statements. all they had to do was follow the laurel route and add a hefty gold value per desired weapon and armor piece. instead, if players want to progress their characters, they are forced to grind and forced to craft to acquire these gears (or simply use their credit card to purchase bis legendaries from the bltc).

hopefully they will change these gearing up systems with the xpac to be more inline with the “cosmetic only” statements and philosophy.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

Here we have a full transcript of yesterday’s presentation (thanks to the guy who wrote all that down).

Interestingly, twice Colin mentions “our no-grind philosophy for Guild Wars 2”.

It appears ArenaNet really believes their own Manifesto, when the same Colin said, “We don’t want players to grind”.

We just need to let them know that, between Ascended items and slow dungeon rewards and Legendaries and the new level-based unlocks and the new trait system unlock and etc etc, well… Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

Yeah wanting to get any nice skins is now buying or grinding gold. But let’s hope this statement means they are going to change that with the expansion. No more endless grinding if you would like those things but you can earn them all ingame.

I see it not so much as we is but as a promise for HoT. Or I hope so.

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Posted by: rhapsody.3615

rhapsody.3615

In the last game I played, I’d have to play a dungeon a few times to buy one armor piece. I then would have to go farm the same creature for 20+ of a very rare drop to fully upgrade ONE armor piece. So no, I do not find GW2’s gear acquisition to be grindy. When you “grind” for things in this game, that is a choice. You can buy exotic gear off of the TP, or you can run dungeons or craft it. A new level 80 can be geared fully in minutes. Ascended is not necessary, though you can even buy all of its components from the TP.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

I think that the reference to a no grind philosophy in the PAX event finally debunks the theory put forth by some players that when Anet says no grind they are referring specifically/exclusively to leveling. The reference to a no grind philosophy is made as part of a presentation on game elements that are completely separate from gaining character levels.

There is grind for power in GW2, not just for cosmetics.

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Posted by: VodCom.6924

VodCom.6924

Some people clearly need a recall :

  • An MMO is considered “grindy” if one has to repeat a small set of simple and uninteresting tasks in order to reach the level cap and enjoy the “end-game content”
  • Having objects or rewards that require grind in a game does not make it “grindy”
  • In GW2 the end-game content can be summed up as : dry top + silverwastes ; megaboss ; living world ; dungeons and fractals. Of all these only fractals of level 10+ require ascended equipment. Thus one with exotic gear can access 100% of endgame content since you walk through the same fractals at level or 50 (only the difficulty changes).
  • And GW2 gives you tools to bypass the leveling process for your alts (exp tomes + skill scrolls + gold to buy traits).

With that in mind, one cannot possibly claim that GW2 is a grindy MMO. The ones who do either :

  • Want everything handeled to them immediately without breaking a sweat.
  • bash the game for the sake of bashing Anet/the game.

Edit : I’d also like to remind you all that ascended tier items were added because a vocal minority (not pointing fingers here) asked for something to grind for once they’ve finished the game.

Known as Reegar Else, Linda Else, Xiana Else and Thorgall Breakstone

(edited by VodCom.6924)

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Posted by: Test.8734

Test.8734

In the last game I played, I’d have to play a dungeon a few times to buy one armor piece.

Have you ever acquired a dungeon armor piece in GW2? You need to play a dungeon a few times to buy one piece as well. Same thing.

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

I think that the reference to a no grind philosophy in the PAX event finally debunks the theory put forth by some players that when Anet says no grind they are referring specifically/exclusively to leveling. The reference to a no grind philosophy is made as part of a presentation on game elements that are completely separate from gaining character levels.

There is grind for power in GW2, not just for cosmetics.

I don’t remember the exact wording off by heart but in the same section of the presentation he also gave examples of things that would unlock masteries as reaching an out of the way part of the map, or defeating a specific enemy or completing a part of the story.

So the way I took the no-grind statement is that we would only have to do each of those things once. We’re not going to have to collect 20 parts from 1 enemy that may or may not drop to unlock a mastery, or do a dungeon 15 times. It’ll be like the way the traits work now, if you kill that enemy, or complete that dungeon or whatever you’ll get it.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Sakri.7234

Sakri.7234

Yes, they now promised that there won’t be any more grinding in this game, which is very welcome news!

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

In the last game I played, I’d have to play a dungeon a few times to buy one armor piece.

Have you ever acquired a dungeon armor piece in GW2? You need to play a dungeon a few times to buy one piece as well. Same thing.

Yea take away half of what he said and its exactly the same…..

read abit further just after the armor piece word and he says and then have to grind same mob for 20+ hours to upgrade said piece

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Posted by: butch.8136

butch.8136

There will always be grind. This discussion will continue to exist. People give different meanings to ‘grind’ and they all feel like what they do fits their definition.
If it bothers you that much, find another game (pref. not MMO).

People are already afraid for ‘mastery grind’. Lol…

Razor xxxx (Desolation ; Off)
Bring back: ‘Gamer’ title + MAT’s!
Throw out: Hotjoin!

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

Here we have a full transcript of yesterday’s presentation (thanks to the guy who wrote all that down).

Interestingly, twice Colin mentions “our no-grind philosophy for Guild Wars 2”.

It appears ArenaNet really believes their own Manifesto, when the same Colin said, “We don’t want players to grind”.

We just need to let them know that, between Ascended items and slow dungeon rewards and Legendaries and the new level-based unlocks and the new trait system unlock and etc etc, well… Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

It has been it’s sortof like this philosophy of content additions when really the earliest were all temporary and they no longer exist in the game but they still consider them to be part of the content they released.

It’s amazing to me that people actually believe these things when these devs say them like they are speaking the gospel or something.

It’s definitely a grind and it’s definitely not good, let’s hope that with the expansion coming they won’t add new grinds and will realize despite what they said in this announcement that this isn’t acceptable.

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

The grind referred to was grind one would have to do in order to access all playable content within the game. There are games that essentially have gear checks that restrict players. I believe someone mentioned this with some WoW raids but I’m not very familiar with that game.

Based on that transcript, the revamped trait system would now be considered a grind. They need to either make doing each task unlock that trait account-wide or find a better way.

(edited by Ayrilana.1396)

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

There will always be grind. This discussion will continue to exist. People give different meanings to ‘grind’ and they all feel like what they do fits their definition.
If it bothers you that much, find another game (pref. not MMO).

People are already afraid for ‘mastery grind’. Lol…

Actually no there’s reasonable, and then there’s a grind. For example, STO recently did something similar to what GW2 has as far as a grind. They have specializations as well but they nerfed how you get xp in order to progress this portion of the game so much so that a single character with the three specializations available and the type of xp one can get in the game takes 3.5 years to complete. It’s similar here when it comes to ascended gear it takes entirely too long to complete these things, that’s why it’s a grind.

Games should never be designed around an exceedingly lengthy amount of time just for a single goal. That’s historically a terrible system of delay and it’s neither good for the game nor is it good for the developer. It means not enough was put in to support the game for that amount of time so the developers put in something cheap and quick to try to keep players “busy”.

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

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Posted by: Zaklex.6308

Zaklex.6308

Please sir, find that game that has no grind and only has content and enjoy it for yourself.

Elder Scrolls
Mass Effect
Fallout
Dragon Age

It’s actually quite easy to make a game with no grind and only content. The thing is, you won’t be able to play it for a loooong time. All of the individual titles in those franchises I played like 100 to 400 hours each. Guild Wars 2 I played 2,500 hours.

And that’s what MMO devs want, to keep you playing. So yea, it is possible, they just won’t do it.

Note, those are all single player games…name an MMO that has no “grind” and I’ll agree you have a point. Otherwise it’s like talking apples and oranges.

P.S. – I put “grind” in quotes because one persons “grind” is another persons “fun”.

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Please sir, find that game that has no grind and only has content and enjoy it for yourself.

Elder Scrolls
Mass Effect
Fallout
Dragon Age

It’s actually quite easy to make a game with no grind and only content. The thing is, you won’t be able to play it for a loooong time. All of the individual titles in those franchises I played like 100 to 400 hours each. Guild Wars 2 I played 2,500 hours.

And that’s what MMO devs want, to keep you playing. So yea, it is possible, they just won’t do it.

Note, those are all single player games…name an MMO that has no “grind” and I’ll agree you have a point. Otherwise it’s like talking apples and oranges.

P.S. – I put “grind” in quotes because one persons “grind” is another persons “fun”.

As nGumball already pointed out, he did not specify what kind of game, just ‘a game’.
If we are talking about mmo’s only then yeah, I can’t think of any. Though even with an mmo it is possible to make a game that is all content and no grind, but it will never happen because Devs want you to keep playing.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

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Posted by: tom.7468

tom.7468

Here we have a full transcript of yesterday’s presentation (thanks to the guy who wrote all that down).

Interestingly, twice Colin mentions “our no-grind philosophy for Guild Wars 2”.

It appears ArenaNet really believes their own Manifesto, when the same Colin said, “We don’t want players to grind”.

We just need to let them know that, between Ascended items and slow dungeon rewards and Legendaries and the new level-based unlocks and the new trait system unlock and etc etc, well… Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

It’s definitely a grind and it’s definitely not good, let’s hope that with the expansion coming they won’t add new grinds and will realize despite what they said in this announcement that this isn’t acceptable.

What you call grind in gw2 is the reason why i love it and keep playing it there are a lot of achievements i haven’t done because i don’t enjoy doing it. See thats a choice that is not going to limit the endgame in gw2.
I got my money worth in this game and im definitly going to buy the expansion.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

You cant grind the best gear in this game because of the time gate.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

We just need to let them know that, between Ascended items and slow dungeon rewards and Legendaries and the new level-based unlocks and the new trait system unlock and etc etc, well… Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

While I agree that Ascended was a departure from the original intent that, " Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game." I had to laugh at “slow dungeon rewards” in the OP. Give people RNG-based loot and they complain it takes too long to get. Give them token-based loot and they complain it takes too long to get.

Also, while I’ll agree that the new trait acquisition system is bad design, I have a hard time thinking of having to do a task once to get a trait as grind. That system is only grind if you want every trait and are going to pay by cash and SP’s. Grind, not because of the cash, but because of needing more SP’s than you get by leveling 1-80 and doing all 202 Skill Challenges in world exploration.

Finally, GW2 always had some level-based unlocks. All MMO’s have some level-based unlocks. While I don’t agree that some of the features needed to be level-based, it’s hardly grind.

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Posted by: McSlappy.1372

McSlappy.1372

Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

This is the most grindy game I have ever played. I mean seriously WoW is a mear fraction of the grind and with their new expansion that is hardly any grind. When I’m away at work I can even have the garrison follower out getting me loot and stuff.

Laughing at those that say mandatory grind. You have two type the optimal people who want to have best in slot and then you have everyone else who is sub optimal. Yes the sub optimal is non mandatory grind because they choose to not be the best they can be. For those that want the best the grind is ridiculous and extremely unrewarding.. I can look back at WoW legendaries and remember the efforts that were put in to get them by the guilds and players. With this game it’s grinding out RNG or pay to win purchases with RL money. Funny for a free to play game. Ohh well we’ll see if they ever bother to fix it. Will have to fix it for free though before wasting money on an expansion to fix what should have been there when payed for in the first place.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Grinding has a traditional meaning with regard to MMOs. People want to apply their own definition to grind.

For years, the only definition I EVER heard for grind was killing mobs to level. Everything else was farming.

Yes, people use the word grind every liberally, but then, Guild Wars 1 had plenty of grind too if you were talking optional grind. You just didn’t grind for levels.

Anet explained what they meant by grind many times in interviews and at conventions after the manifesto.

If you choose to try to apply a different definition, it’s probably not Anet’s fault.

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

Ascended gear and Legendaries should be unlockable account wide.

Made an Ascended Soldier stats sword? You can ‘consume’ to unlock it. Ding. You got it unlocked. You no longer need to make more or constantly trade them in the bank to use with other characters.

Instead, you go to the bank and, for example:

  • Can take soulbound copies with a generic skin (same model as ascended skin, but grayed, pale, without glow). Want to keep your ascended account bound? Don’t use them to unlock. ANet gets more uses of transmutation stones, altaholics get less grind Win/Win.
  • Can make account-wide copies by paying Vision Crystals and/or reduced material cost. So there’s always use for ascended materials.

And what about people with multiple copies? A trader in lion’s arch will exchange ascended for tokens (but not the copies). You can use the tokens to get boxes of ascended gear with the same primary attribute.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

(edited by MithranArkanere.8957)

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Grinding has a traditional meaning with regard to MMOs. People want to apply their own definition to grind.

For years, the only definition I EVER heard for grind was killing mobs to level. Everything else was farming.

Yes, people use the word grind every liberally, but then, Guild Wars 1 had plenty of grind too if you were talking optional grind. You just didn’t grind for levels.

Anet explained what they meant by grind many times in interviews and at conventions after the manifesto.

If you choose to try to apply a different definition, it’s probably not Anet’s fault.

Anet made it clear in the PAX announcement that THEY do not share the interpretation that you mention. The founder and current head of the company as well as the director of the game made statements indicating that grind was not specific or exclusive to leveling.

We are not the ones applying a definition different than your own. Anet’s top people are.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

I don’t see any discrepancy between how the game is played and what Anet’s top people describe as grinding. I do what I want, in the gear I want and if I tire of it, I change it and STILL I am able to get anything I’m after. It’s NEVER grindy unless I CHOOSE to do content that MAKES the game grindy.

If people feel it’s grindy, it’s because they choose a path to reach goals they aren’t prepared to do. The stuff you need to make all the BiS falls in MANY different parts of the game. There is no reason for anyone to expose themselves to only one to ‘prove’ the game is a grind.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Serophous.9085

Serophous.9085

When they say “no grind” this is what they mean:

In wow, you do the first raid multiple times over and over to not only gear yourself, but other members. Why? Because the next raid to come out will REQUIRE that gear in order to even attempt, and you repeat the process to prepare for the NEXT raid. In other words, if you want to see the new content, grind the old to be able to even attempt.

In gw2, depending how much karma you have, gold, and materials, you can get exotic gear very easily. After that (I may be wrong in assuming things are based on exotic gear levels), you are set, done, fanito. You have access to everything and barred from nothing, except high level fractals for resist.

The “grind” that is here is for LOOKS only. You don’t NEED that item unless you want it. That item isn’t barring you from access to a map or dungeon. Its there to make you look different.

Those items are like going to an arcade with ticket prizes. Play a game you like, get tickets. Get enough and get a reward. Rinse, repeat.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Grinding has a traditional meaning with regard to MMOs. People want to apply their own definition to grind.

For years, the only definition I EVER heard for grind was killing mobs to level. Everything else was farming.

Yes, people use the word grind every liberally, but then, Guild Wars 1 had plenty of grind too if you were talking optional grind. You just didn’t grind for levels.

Anet explained what they meant by grind many times in interviews and at conventions after the manifesto.

If you choose to try to apply a different definition, it’s probably not Anet’s fault.

Anet made it clear in the PAX announcement that THEY do not share the interpretation that you mention. The founder and current head of the company as well as the director of the game made statements indicating that grind was not specific or exclusive to leveling.

We are not the ones applying a definition different than your own. Anet’s top people are.

No I’m using the definition in wikipedia, and I’d love to see those quotes, because I watched the whole thing and I didn’t see them. So where are they?

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Grinding has a traditional meaning with regard to MMOs. People want to apply their own definition to grind.

For years, the only definition I EVER heard for grind was killing mobs to level. Everything else was farming.

Yes, people use the word grind every liberally, but then, Guild Wars 1 had plenty of grind too if you were talking optional grind. You just didn’t grind for levels.

Anet explained what they meant by grind many times in interviews and at conventions after the manifesto.

If you choose to try to apply a different definition, it’s probably not Anet’s fault.

Anet made it clear in the PAX announcement that THEY do not share the interpretation that you mention. The founder and current head of the company as well as the director of the game made statements indicating that grind was not specific or exclusive to leveling.

We are not the ones applying a definition different than your own. Anet’s top people are.

It got extended to player progression such as the upcoming mastery system. They haven’t stated anything like that before. People have been misinterpreting what they meant by “no grind” rather than take what they exactly said at face value. They applied the “no grind” to everything when that was not what they said. As of now, the only system that goes against their no grind policy would be the trait system as it parallels the mastery system and yet it remains character bound whereas the other isn’t.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Grinding has a traditional meaning with regard to MMOs. People want to apply their own definition to grind.

For years, the only definition I EVER heard for grind was killing mobs to level. Everything else was farming.

Yes, people use the word grind every liberally, but then, Guild Wars 1 had plenty of grind too if you were talking optional grind. You just didn’t grind for levels.

Anet explained what they meant by grind many times in interviews and at conventions after the manifesto.

If you choose to try to apply a different definition, it’s probably not Anet’s fault.

Anet made it clear in the PAX announcement that THEY do not share the interpretation that you mention. The founder and current head of the company as well as the director of the game made statements indicating that grind was not specific or exclusive to leveling.

We are not the ones applying a definition different than your own. Anet’s top people are.

No I’m using the definition in wikipedia, and I’d love to see those quotes, because I watched the whole thing and I didn’t see them. So where are they?

You didnt see the part, for example, where Colin referenced Anet’s no grind philosophy as regards to learning new abilities such as hang gliding, gaining access to otherwise unaccessible content by learning native languages, etc…all without any character leveling ?

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Posted by: Buttercup.5871

Buttercup.5871

Their “no-grind philosophy” has been extremely grindy.

This is the most grindy game I have ever played. I mean seriously WoW is a mear fraction of the grind and with their new expansion that is hardly any grind. When I’m away at work I can even have the garrison follower out getting me loot and stuff.

Laughing at those that say mandatory grind. You have two type the optimal people who want to have best in slot and then you have everyone else who is sub optimal. Yes the sub optimal is non mandatory grind because they choose to not be the best they can be. For those that want the best the grind is ridiculous and extremely unrewarding.. I can look back at WoW legendaries and remember the efforts that were put in to get them by the guilds and players. With this game it’s grinding out RNG or pay to win purchases with RL money. Funny for a free to play game. Ohh well we’ll see if they ever bother to fix it. Will have to fix it for free though before wasting money on an expansion to fix what should have been there when payed for in the first place.

Mind you, I don’t play WoW, but I seriously doubt it has account bound BiS armor and weapons. Or complete account bound customization, such as all skins and dyes. Or account bound acquisition of skills and traits; learn it on a class once and it’s unlocked forever if you decide to roll same class on a different race. The new mastery system is account wide as well. So in that sense, GW2 seriously prevents grind. Yes, it takes a while to get certain very desirable items once, but when you do, every character on your account can benefit from them.

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

With no grind, they mean no mandatory grind. There is no gear threadmill.
You don’t have to grind in order to keep up. All the grind in this game is just for cosmetics. Sure there is ascended, but that’s only like 5% better than exotic so you don’t really need it.

So is there grind for just cosmetics or cosmetics and stats?
5% is 5%, it’s there, it exists, you can’t deny it. You can choose to ignore it, convince yourself it’s not needed, attempt to convince others it’s not needed, but the fact of the matter remains, it’s a 5% increase in stats.

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Join the TEEFs!

(edited by Zero Day.2594)

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

With no grind, they mean no mandatory grind. There is no gear threadmill.
You don’t have to grind in order to keep up. All the grind in this game is just for cosmetics. Sure there is ascended, but that’s only like 5% better than exotic so you don’t really need it.

So is there grind for just cosmetics or cosmetics and stats?
5% is 5%, it’s there, it exists, you can’t deny it. You can choose to ignore it, convince yourself it’s not needed, attempt to convince others it’s not needed, but the fact of the matter remains, it’s a 5% increase in stats.

Yes, a useless 5% is a useless 5%. And I never denied it’s existance, I merely pointed out the fact you don’t need it. I know it is not needed as all content can easily be completed without it (except fractals, but that’s because of agony resistance, not the stats itself).

You can try convincing yourself that this 5% increase is a big deal, but I know it is not.

Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors

(edited by Windu The Forbidden One.6045)