Guild Wars 2

So I was curious how much damage I’d be losing by not upgrading my weapons to ascended. There are a lot of variables involved, so I stuck to the following scenario:
Weapon: greatsword
Damage type: Direct
Power: max possible (weapon + exotic armor)
Against Armor types: light, medium, and heavy
Against Toughness: none
Weapon Coefficient: .5 (Don’t know what the most common coefficient is so its a guess.. I can recalculate using different coefficients on request)
Equation

So that means, what is the direct damage difference between an exotic and ascended greatsword while using exotic armor (main stat Power) and hitting various armor types with no toughness. I tried to make the conditions favorable for greatsword weilder to get a max difference in damage picture. I calculated using both max and min greatsword weapon damage to get the range of damage I would be potentially losing. Min difference is defined as: (min possible ascended damage – min possible exotic damage) and max difference is: (max possible ascended damage – max possible exotic damage)

Results: (min difference : max difference)
light: 28.3 : 31.1
medium: 24.4 : 26.9
heavy: 21.5 : 23.6

So per hit I’m missing out on 28 – 31 damage against light armored characters with no toughness. Feel free to question my math on this one, I just tried to stick to a basic scenario.

Opinion part:
It doesn’t seem like that much of a damage difference. I understand that the damage differences would add up with all ascended vs all exotic armor/weapons, but I do not really feel the need to go crazy getting an ascended weapon. I mean doing more damage is always good, but at this point I would only go for an ascended weapon for cosmetic reasons. What do you guys think? Feel free to question my calculation methods. I’d be curious to see what the #s others have calculated, and also #s for condition specs if anyone has those.

edit: to define the results a little better

Do not count the straight damage difference. Count the percentage one. a 20 point difference on a 20k attack is insignificant, but on a 30 point attack would be massive, and you completely ignored that part.
Just to put it in relation: the base weapon difference already means a +5% damage increase. other stats can make it even better. Especially if you compare the whole exotic vs ascended sets, not only one piece of eq.

The extra stats are nice, but not massive. If I recall correctly, the extra condition damage from an ascended rabid weapon over an exotic isn’t enough to get bleed to deal even a point more of damage, so don’t stress too much over not having one. I know I won’t.

If you buff the stats on an Exotic weapon by 1%, then you get the stats of an Ascended.

Yes, the difference is trivial at most.

Wait til full ascended gear is in game, get back to me. I want to continue to read what a trifle amount of difference it makes. If it was so trifling would anet continue to beef up end game event encounters?

It’s a gear treadmill that has to be balanced with a beefing up of content difficulty (more beef). At what point will you clear the smoke from the mirrors?

Nice to see some reason and fact-finding in this sea of tinfoil hats and hyperbole. Good post, Ash.

So did you use all exotic trinkets and gs vs all ascended trinkets and gs and also take into consideration what will be added in armor?

If we sum the difference of all pieces, is it still negligible?

Ash.2175:

I mean doing more damage is always good, but at this point I would only go for an ascended weapon for cosmetic reasons. What do you guys think?

Ascended trinkets + Ascended weapons + Ascended armor set =
lfg tool: lf1m only full linked ascended need apply!

Daywolf.2630:

Ash.2175:

I mean doing more damage is always good, but at this point I would only go for an ascended weapon for cosmetic reasons. What do you guys think?

Ascended trinkets + Ascended weapons + Ascended armor set =
lfg tool: lf1m only full linked ascended need apply!

I’ll take Crappy Groups I Should Be Avoiding In The First Place for $500, Alex.

They have different stats? I just want my Ascended for the awesome skin.

I too questioned whether or not I would feel any form of consequence by
not replacing exotic with ascended

my end result in terms of power attribute only of berserker items (staff as weapon)
exotic: 687
vs.
ascended: 789

so around ~100 power difference
(at level 80 only, otherwise down scaled and stuff)

that said, in pve, it will/should not matter
no one will/should give a —-- if you are in ascended or exotic
unless your group is aiming to beat some timed record or something

point-
using food vs. not using food is like exotic vs. ascended
do you notice the difference when you use/don’t use food?
and/or
do you notice the difference when party member uses/does not use food?

example-
if exotic zerker war is using truffle steak (+100 power at lvl 80 as main idea),
he’s doing the “same” amount of damage (the idea anyway)
as full ascended zerker war without a truffle steak
and then we add in ping + proficiency + random number generators + whatever else…

and in terms of whether or not ascended will matter in wvwvw however…
i go back to the food example

pic for reference…

I miss gw1’s design where value is based on rarity of weapon/armor skin only
not overall amount of stats

Daywolf.2630:

Ash.2175:

I mean doing more damage is always good, but at this point I would only go for an ascended weapon for cosmetic reasons. What do you guys think?

Ascended trinkets + Ascended weapons + Ascended armor set =
lfg tool: lf1m only full linked ascended need apply!

Tired of reading this crap

Make your own group, and stop worrying about how others play.

Namu.5712:

Daywolf.2630:

Ash.2175:

I mean doing more damage is always good, but at this point I would only go for an ascended weapon for cosmetic reasons. What do you guys think?

Ascended trinkets + Ascended weapons + Ascended armor set =
lfg tool: lf1m only full linked ascended need apply!

Tired of reading this crap

Make your own group, and stop worrying about how others play.

You can show hostility, but it’s what you’ll see. Even if they don’t call for links, less people are going to put you on their friends list for regular groups, even if they are not elitists. You’ll see the difference, just like when you may build stacks of bloodlust, and others will see the difference as well.

As for me, I hunt chests, from bosses, temples, JP’s, whatever, so don’t start thinking I’m just getting my copy and paste ready for the lfg tool. But when you add it all up, that’s just how it’s going to be. Especially as the game becomes more and more grindy as it has been becoming. Been at this mmo gaming for a very long time, I’ve seen it all happen many times over.

Vanthian.9267:

I will be looking at a Thief with a backstab damage build.
20/30/0/0/20

Traits to consider in damage calculation:
Dagger Trainger: 5% damage
Executioner: 20% damage below 50% health
Flanking Strikes: 5% damage when attacking from back/sides

Constants:
Light Armor: 1836 (no added toughness what so ever)
Medium Armor: 1980 (no added toughness what so ever)
Heavy Armor: 2127 (no added toughness what so ever)
Skill Coefficient: 1.2 if hit from the front
2.4 if hit from the back/side

Exotics:
When using all berserker and all ruby orbs and a completely damage build for Thief:

Weapon Damage: 924-981
Power: 2089 without food buffs or bloodlust or might
3156 with food buffs and 25 might but without bloodlust
Critical Chance: 63.24 without fury or food buffs
66.57 with food buffs without fury
Critical Damage: 86%

Standard Damage of Backstab on target without Critical hit: (all will assume max Weapon damage/Skill Coefficient)

Light Armor: No Food Buffs/Might/Bloodlust
Damage: ( 981 × 2089 × 2.4 ) / 1836 = 2,678.835
With Food Buffs/Might but NO BLOODLUST
Damage: ( 981 × 3156 × 2.4 ) / 1836 = 4,047.105

What if we critical? Critical Damage is +86% on the normal 150% so we have 236% damage. Without buffs would be…
2,678.835 × 236% = 6,322.051
With Fodd buffs and such…
4,047.105 × 236% = 9,551.168

ASCENDED

Same set up only with ascended trinkets, back, ring, amulet and weapon.

Weapon Damage: 970-1030
Power: 2309 without food buffs or bloodlust or might
3376 with food buffs and 25 might but without bloodlust
Critical Chance: 69.24 without fury or food buffs
72.57 with food buffs without fury
Critical Damage: 112%

Standard Damage of Backstab on target without Critical hit: (all will assume max Weapon damage/Skill Coefficient)

Light Armor: No Food Buffs/Might/Bloodlust
Damage: ( 1,030 × 2,309 × 2.4 ) / 1836 = 3,108.849
With Food Buffs/Might but NO BLOODLUST
Damage: ( 1,030 × 3,376 × 2.4 ) / 1836 = 4,545.464

What if we critical? Critical Damage is +112% on the normal 150% so we have 262% damage. Without buffs would be…
3,108.849 × 262% = 8,145.184
With Fodd buffs and such…
4,545.464 × 262% = 11,909.115

Comparing the two:
Exotic with buffs & critical: 9,551.168
Ascended with buffs & Critical: 11,909.115

Percentage damage higher? 9,551.168/11,090.115 = 0.861
Then 1 – 0.861 = 0.139 which is…..

13.9% difference in damage when buffed and landing a critical hit on a light armor target with no extra defense when welding currently available Ascended items over Exotics.

Also, please note I did not take into account the trait damage multipliers since they are the same with or without Ascended gear.

You can follow the above to figure out any of the other armors types or whatever you choose. I also done this very quickly so my numbers might be a little off, but I do believe them to be accurate.

Have fun!

You can end the thread now because this is the kind of analysis we really needed.

If the difference is so trivial, why did they add them at all?

Fernling.1729:

If the difference is so trivial, why did they add them at all?

A) Another means of players getting agony resistance.
B) Marginal improvements are still improvements that players can work towards.
C) People like having something to work for. WoW constantly releases new levels of gear; the players are always working to better themselves. It may not always be enjoyable, but it certainly draws people.
D) If the difference was bigger, the small kittenstorm would have been massive. Instead, its restricted to people who don’t have a concept of scale, and the people who don’t know the numbers and are hearing the people who don’t have a concept of scale.
E) It gives them additional stuff they can add to existing bosses to make going back into the world more attractive.

It’s not trivial difference. I got jumped by a guy dual wielding legendary swords in WvW and he did more sustained dps than I have encountered up until now in the game, also he was not glassy build based on how well he took damage. And he had been recently downed (by me) and chased me half a map before I decided to re-engage, so he didn’t have any 25 stacks of might. Why do you think they kept ascended out of sPvP if the difference is so trivial? 10+% damage difference is a lot (remember best weapon sigil gives only 5% damage bonus), if you add up all ascended gear character versus all exotic gear character it is a huge difference.

It’s an anecdote, ok, but what I am saying is my experience in WvW is that legendary/ascended stat weapons are noticeably stronger now than what the rest of us are wielding.

Vanthian.9267:

What if we critical? Critical Damage is +112% on the normal 150% so we have 262% damage. Without buffs would be…
3,108.849 × 262% = 8,145.184
With Fodd buffs and such…
4,545.464 × 262% = 11,909.115

Comparing the two:
Exotic with buffs & critical: 9,551.168
Ascended with buffs & Critical: 11,909.115

Percentage damage higher? 9,551.168/11,090.115 = 0.861
Then 1 – 0.861 = 0.139 which is…..

13.9% difference in damage when buffed and landing a critical hit on a light armor target with no extra defense when welding currently available Ascended items over Exotics.

The critical damage from changing from exotic gear to currently available ascended gear increased by ~16% (11,090.115 / 9,551.168 = 1.161 => 1.161 – 1 = 0.161).
You got an extra 2.3k damage (11,909.115 – 9,551.168 = 2357.947) against a light armored foe.

Is my sense of scale off or is this actually a trivial amount?

Sylentir.8913:

Fernling.1729:

If the difference is so trivial, why did they add them at all?

A) Another means of players getting agony resistance.
B) Marginal improvements are still improvements that players can work towards.
C) People like having something to work for. WoW constantly releases new levels of gear; the players are always working to better themselves. It may not always be enjoyable, but it certainly draws people.
D) If the difference was bigger, the small kittenstorm would have been massive. Instead, its restricted to people who don’t have a concept of scale, and the people who don’t know the numbers and are hearing the people who don’t have a concept of scale.
E) It gives them additional stuff they can add to existing bosses to make going back into the world more attractive.

a) agony resistance could have been added in many other ways.
b)if you really need to have a marginal stat improvement to work towards to enjoy an MMORPG than there are plenty of treadmill MMORPGs that you can play instead of GW2
c)People that want WoW should play WoW… why would you want your next generation revolutionary MMORPG to be like WoW?
d)Do you have a concept of Scale and do you know that numbers Sylentir.8913? What are the numbers and explain what you think the concept of scale is exactly Sylentir.8913.
e)you made this up.

In a thread that in it’s very title stated it was about the MATH, here was your first post:

The extra stats are nice, but not massive. If I recall correctly, the extra condition damage from an ascended rabid weapon over an exotic isn’t enough to get bleed to deal even a point more of damage, so don’t stress too much over not having one. I know I won’t.

Why would you post a guess in your first post and then be condescending towards people who disagree with you because they “don’t know the numbers” when you don’t know the numbers yourself?

I’m not against ascended weapons but one has to admit it makes things a lot more expensive for people that play a lot of alts and I really really hope that “additional stuff they can add to existing bosses…” does not mean Ascended weapons are required to fight world bosses.

Did Anet ever say anything like: “It gives them additional stuff they can add to existing bosses to make going back into the world more attractive.” I really hope they did not say this… Someone please provide a link if they did, I would appreciate it very much.

BlueZone.4236:

Vanthian.9267:

What if we critical? Critical Damage is +112% on the normal 150% so we have 262% damage. Without buffs would be…
3,108.849 × 262% = 8,145.184
With Fodd buffs and such…
4,545.464 × 262% = 11,909.115

Comparing the two:
Exotic with buffs & critical: 9,551.168
Ascended with buffs & Critical: 11,909.115

Percentage damage higher? 9,551.168/11,090.115 = 0.861
Then 1 – 0.861 = 0.139 which is…..

13.9% difference in damage when buffed and landing a critical hit on a light armor target with no extra defense when welding currently available Ascended items over Exotics.

The critical damage from changing from exotic gear to currently available ascended gear increased by ~16% (11,090.115 / 9,551.168 = 1.161 => 1.161 – 1 = 0.161).
You got an extra 2.3k damage (11,909.115 – 9,551.168 = 2357.947) against a light armored foe.

Is my sense of scale off or is this actually a trivial amount?

That is correct. Sorry about flipping the fraction. The pure damage gain is roughly 16% while the marginal gain going from ascended to exotic is 13% >.>. As in, your damage is now 16% higher from what it previously was going from exotic to ascended, but looking backwards from ascended to exotic you only drop 13%.

Thanks for the correction.

But also note, this is on a high damage coefficient skill. On auto attacks the numbers will be much lower.

Edit: If you want to see some big numbers do it with the Warrior Skill Coefficient for Eviscerate xD. 3.0 multiplier (at max adrenaline, not to mention more damage percentage traits). Plus, higher weapon damage sitting at 1,100. Fun stuff..

Namu.5712:

Daywolf.2630:

Ash.2175:

I mean doing more damage is always good, but at this point I would only go for an ascended weapon for cosmetic reasons. What do you guys think?

Ascended trinkets + Ascended weapons + Ascended armor set =
lfg tool: lf1m only full linked ascended need apply!

Tired of reading this crap

Make your own group, and stop worrying about how others play.

Then stop reading it, and stop worrying about what people think.

Does this math take into account the extra critical chance from precision, and thus the average dps, or does it take only in account examples of non-critical and critical attacks?

Vanthian.9267:

That is correct. Sorry about flipping the fraction. The pure damage gain is roughly 16% while the marginal gain going from ascended to exotic is 13% >.>. As in, your damage is now 16% higher from what it previously was going from exotic to ascended, but looking backwards from ascended to exotic you only drop 13%.

Thanks for the correction.

But also note, this is on a high damage coefficient skill. On auto attacks the numbers will be much lower.

Edit: If you want to see some big numbers do it with the Warrior Skill Coefficient for Eviscerate xD. 3.0 multiplier (at max adrenaline, not to mention more damage percentage traits).

Thanks for the clarification. There wasn’t anything wrong with your percentage, I was just stating it because I tend to find easier to see how much I would gain.

I agree the difference would be lower on auto attacks, though these gains as a burst/spike damage don’t seem trivial at all, if I’m reading it right.

BlueZone.4236:

Thanks for the clarification. There wasn’t anything wrong with your percentage, I was just stating it because I tend to find easier to see how much I would gain.

I agree the difference would be lower on auto attacks, though these gains as a burst/spike damage don’t seem trivial at all, if I’m reading it right.

It is not trivial. More so now than it will be in my opinion. Without the extra base armor from the Ascended Armor the extra weapon damage is kind of outrageous. If you think you were getting burst down before wait till you get hit with a Thief or Warrior in all Ascended gear.

This is the main reason I have stopped playing the game. There was no need for a new tier of gear (more so over when you think about how they sold the game in the first place).

Even when Ascended armor comes out, the base armor will not scale as well as the damage does. This is the reason why Warriors are not as good as bunkers as Guardians. The high health/armor does no good on these extreme damage builds. The only reason why bunkers are a thing are due to the excessive boons in this game (like the guardian). High base numbers mean squat when you can pop out a boon that does more than 2800 armor.

All in all, they advertised/sold the game the way it should have been made then doubled back on what they said/developed.

They sold the game as: Powerful short term boons/conditions, skill dependent fights, only progression is visual progression after obtaining exotics which are easy to obtain at 80.

They currently have 0 of those in the game at the moment. Boons/conditions last entirely to long and are far to accessible. There is no skill involved when you can constantly spam skills and dodges because you literally never run out of them on 6 of the 8 classes. There is visual progression but it is tied to the stat progression that they sworn up and down for 2 years would never be in the game.

Anywho, that is my rant for tonight.

Vanthian.9267:

But also note, this is on a high damage coefficient skill. On auto attacks the numbers will be much lower.

Numbrs would be much lower, but since coefficient is a straight multiplier, the same in both cases, the % damage increase would stay the same.
Also, from what i have seen, the above did not take in consideration an average dps increase due to greater critical chance.

Vanthian.9267:

BlueZone.4236:

Thanks for the clarification. There wasn’t anything wrong with your percentage, I was just stating it because I tend to find easier to see how much I would gain.

I agree the difference would be lower on auto attacks, though these gains as a burst/spike damage don’t seem trivial at all, if I’m reading it right.

It is not trivial. More so now than it will be in my opinion. Without the extra base armor from the Ascended Armor the extra weapon damage is kind of outrageous. If you think you were getting burst down before wait till you get hit with a Thief or Warrior in all Ascended gear.

This is the main reason I have stopped playing the game. There was no need for a new tier of gear (more so over when you think about how they sold the game in the first place).

Even when Ascended armor comes out, the base armor will not scale as well as the damage does. This is the reason why Warriors are not as good as bunkers as Guardians. The high health/armor does no good on these extreme damage builds. The only reason why bunkers are a thing are due to the excessive boons in this game (like the guardian). High base numbers mean squat when you can pop out a boon that does more than 2800 armor.

All in all, they advertised/sold the game the way it should have been made then doubled back on what they said/developed.

They sold the game as: Powerful short term boons/conditions, skill dependent fights, only progression is visual progression after obtaining exotics which are easy to obtain at 80.

They currently have 0 of those in the game at the moment. Boons/conditions last entirely to long and are far to accessible. There is no skill involved when you can constantly spam skills and dodges because you literally never run out of them on 6 of the 8 classes. There is visual progression but it is tied to the stat progression that they sworn up and down for 2 years would never be in the game.

Anywho, that is my rant for tonight.

It is trivial to people who cannot deal with 1st grade math:

adding
substracting
multiplying
dividing

Unfortunately it seems most of people who post here.

Sylentir.8913:

Fernling.1729:

If the difference is so trivial, why did they add them at all?

A) Another means of players getting agony resistance.
B) Marginal improvements are still improvements that players can work towards.
C) *People like having something to work for. WoW constantly releases new levels of gear; the players are always working to better themselves. It may not always be enjoyable, but it certainly draws people. *
D) If the difference was bigger, the small kittenstorm would have been massive. Instead, its restricted to people who don’t have a concept of scale, and the people who don’t know the numbers and are hearing the people who don’t have a concept of scale.
E) It gives them additional stuff they can add to existing bosses to make going back into the world more attractive.

Can we please stopping making this game into a WoW clone.
A) Not all people want an endless threadmill
B) wanting something to work for is why I have a job. In a videogame I primarily want to have fun without having to work for something.
C) I bought GW2 because I do not want to work for gear. That’s the #1 reason I bought this game instead of subbing to WoW.

So please … whatever WoW does right for WoW players is why people play GW2 because GW2 doesn’t do that type of content. Do not go down this slippery slope further.

Vanthian.9267:

I will be looking at a Thief with a backstab damage build.
20/30/0/0/20

Traits to consider in damage calculation:
Dagger Trainger: 5% damage
Executioner: 20% damage below 50% health
Flanking Strikes: 5% damage when attacking from back/sides

Constants:
Light Armor: 1836 (no added toughness what so ever)
Medium Armor: 1980 (no added toughness what so ever)
Heavy Armor: 2127 (no added toughness what so ever)
Skill Coefficient: 1.2 if hit from the front
2.4 if hit from the back/side

Exotics:
When using all berserker and all ruby orbs and a completely damage build for Thief:

Weapon Damage: 924-981
Power: 2089 without food buffs or bloodlust or might
3156 with food buffs and 25 might but without bloodlust
Critical Chance: 63.24 without fury or food buffs
66.57 with food buffs without fury
Critical Damage: 86%

Standard Damage of Backstab on target without Critical hit: (all will assume max Weapon damage/Skill Coefficient)

Light Armor: No Food Buffs/Might/Bloodlust
Damage: ( 981 × 2089 × 2.4 ) / 1836 = 2,678.835
With Food Buffs/Might but NO BLOODLUST
Damage: ( 981 × 3156 × 2.4 ) / 1836 = 4,047.105

What if we critical? Critical Damage is +86% on the normal 150% so we have 236% damage. Without buffs would be…
2,678.835 × 236% = 6,322.051
With Fodd buffs and such…
4,047.105 × 236% = 9,551.168

ASCENDED

Same set up only with ascended trinkets, back, ring, amulet and weapon.

Weapon Damage: 970-1030
Power: 2309 without food buffs or bloodlust or might
3376 with food buffs and 25 might but without bloodlust
Critical Chance: 69.24 without fury or food buffs
72.57 with food buffs without fury
Critical Damage: 112%

Standard Damage of Backstab on target without Critical hit: (all will assume max Weapon damage/Skill Coefficient)

Light Armor: No Food Buffs/Might/Bloodlust
Damage: ( 1,030 × 2,309 × 2.4 ) / 1836 = 3,108.849
With Food Buffs/Might but NO BLOODLUST
Damage: ( 1,030 × 3,376 × 2.4 ) / 1836 = 4,545.464

What if we critical? Critical Damage is +112% on the normal 150% so we have 262% damage. Without buffs would be…
3,108.849 × 262% = 8,145.184
With Fodd buffs and such…
4,545.464 × 262% = 11,909.115

Comparing the two:
Exotic with buffs & critical: 9,551.168
Ascended with buffs & Critical: 11,909.115

Percentage damage higher? 9,551.168/11,090.115 = 0.861
Then 1 – 0.861 = 0.139 which is…..

13.9% difference in damage when buffed and landing a critical hit on a light armor target with no extra defense when welding currently available Ascended items over Exotics.

Also, please note I did not take into account the trait damage multipliers since they are the same with or without Ascended gear.

You can follow the above to figure out any of the other armors types or whatever you choose. I also done this very quickly so my numbers might be a little off, but I do believe them to be accurate.

Have fun!

This is awesome. I also had the crit damage question, but didn’t include it in my calculations for simplicity. I also didn’t include ascended rings/accessories/amulet because I was going for just the difference in exotic and ascended weapons. Its cool to see you use a build in here too so we get a more real game example of ascended vs exotic differences.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Does this math take into account the extra critical chance from precision, and thus the average dps, or does it take only in account examples of non-critical and critical attacks?

I only included non critical attacks. I also think crit is an interesting scenario, but I wanted a simple starting point and power for direct damage was an easy thing to calculate. I don’t know the best ratio of power to crit to maximize dps. I could do an all precision main stat armor calc and see what the difference would be in how much more damage you crit over a regular hit. But I think I would have to do a bit more research into mechanics first.

DusK.3849:

Daywolf.2630:

Ascended trinkets + Ascended weapons + Ascended armor set =
lfg tool: lf1m only full linked ascended need apply!

I’ll take Crappy Groups I Should Be Avoiding In The First Place for $500, Alex.

Amen to that! The sooner those groups start advertising themselves like this the better. I can do without that kind of nonsense.

I just hope there’s an “Elite only” checkbox in the new LFG tool so that I can perma-unselect it when searching.

Vanthian.9267:

I will be looking at a Thief with a backstab damage build.

snip

Have fun!

Thank you for saving me the trouble. I just had my spreadsheet open. I think part of the problem is that everyone ignores that the weapon damage is multiplicative. At the very least, since weapon damage for ascended weapons is 5% higher than for exotic weapons, damage will go up at least 5%.

Sylentir.8913:

Fernling.1729:

If the difference is so trivial, why did they add them at all?

A) Another means of players getting agony resistance.

They could have have easily gone the GW1 route for that: do a dungeon dive (since there are no GW1-style missions; or maybe several dungeon dives – associate a specific slot with each dungeon and make it a 4th path) to reach a Seer, or a long slog to the end of one the most remote zones to find a Seer and then kill a Champion (perhaps with an added caveat of the Seer not talking to you if you didn’t walk into the zone through a portal or fast travel into or within the zone, to show determination and character and such), to have your armor infused against Agony. Perhaps make it a gem reward to fit in the upgrade slot of your gear so that several trips need to be made.

Another tier of gear was definitely not needed for Agony Resistance.

So, bottom line for the thread:

~10-16% (estimated) increase in DPS, as a rough rule of thumb, using full (currently available) ascended gear. (Pretty much matches up with other estimates I’ve seen.)

Is this enough to matter? The answer is yes and no. It depends on the situation. 1 vs. 1 with evenly matched skill? Yes. In a giant zerg? No. So each person needs to answer this for themselves: how do you prefer to play?

arabeth.2361:

So, bottom line for the thread:

~10-16% (estimated) increase in DPS, as a rough rule of thumb, using full (currently available) ascended gear. (Pretty much matches up with other estimates I’ve seen.)

Is this enough to matter? The answer is yes and no. It depends on the situation. 1 vs. 1 with evenly matched skill? Yes. In a giant zerg? No. So each person needs to answer this for themselves: how do you prefer to play?

The difference will only get bigger….and bigger….and bigger….

Enlighten us when it “will be enough to matter”? 25%? 30%? 50%? And it will get there…very soon.

10-16% is already huge.

MY BRAIN, IT IS HURTINGZ!

arabeth.2361:

So, bottom line for the thread:

~10-16% (estimated) increase in DPS, as a rough rule of thumb, using full (currently available) ascended gear. (Pretty much matches up with other estimates I’ve seen.)

Is this enough to matter? The answer is yes and no. It depends on the situation. 1 vs. 1 with evenly matched skill? Yes. In a giant zerg? No. So each person needs to answer this for themselves: how do you prefer to play?

You appear to be intentionally excluding the middle, which is a very strange and illogical way to argue.

In 1v1, 10-16% is a definite yes, I agree.

In 5v5 it would also definitely matter. In dungeons and Fractals it will definitely matter.

In zerg-based WvW and big events and super-easy stuff, obviously 10-16% is irrelevant, but so would 50% be, or even perhaps 100%.

So I don’t agree that it will be something you ask for yourself, at all. It will eventually come to you, whether you like it or not, unless you ONLY zerg-surf or do events/easy PvE.

matemaster.2168:

Average damage (crits included) for my guardian against 2600 armor

autoattack with exotic valkyrie sword 1st attack in chain 1890
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword 1st attack in chain 1896 (6 damage or +0.31%)
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword (5 power infusion) 1st attack in chain 1903 (+13 damage or +0.69%)

autoattack with exotic valkyrie sword 3rd attack in chain 3543
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword 3rd attack in chain 3554 (11 damage or +0.31%)
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword (5 power infusion) 3rd attack in chain 3567 (+24 damage or +0.68%)

Zealot defense with exotic valkyrie sword 6260
Zealot defense with ascended valkyrie sword 6279 (19 damage or +0.3%)
Zealot defense with ascended valkyrie sword (5 power infusion) 6302 (+42 damage or +0.67%)

The % gain in damage is very slightly decreasing with the highest damaging skills

Is this from a test, or is this math?

The reason I’m asking is that damage is still a little confusing to me, but you’re results don’t match up with how I think it should work. Of course, I could be wrong.

TooBz.3065:

matemaster.2168:

Average damage (crits included) for my guardian against 2600 armor

autoattack with exotic valkyrie sword 1st attack in chain 1890
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword 1st attack in chain 1896 (6 damage or +0.31%)
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword (5 power infusion) 1st attack in chain 1903 (+13 damage or +0.69%)

autoattack with exotic valkyrie sword 3rd attack in chain 3543
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword 3rd attack in chain 3554 (11 damage or +0.31%)
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword (5 power infusion) 3rd attack in chain 3567 (+24 damage or +0.68%)

Zealot defense with exotic valkyrie sword 6260
Zealot defense with ascended valkyrie sword 6279 (19 damage or +0.3%)
Zealot defense with ascended valkyrie sword (5 power infusion) 6302 (+42 damage or +0.67%)

The % gain in damage is very slightly decreasing with the highest damaging skills

Is this from a test, or is this math?

The reason I’m asking is that damage is still a little confusing to me, but you’re results don’t match up with how I think it should work. Of course, I could be wrong.

forgot about weapon strength… will repost the results

Average damage (crits included) for my guardian against 2600 armor

autoattack with exotic valkyrie sword 1st attack in chain 1890
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword 1st attack in chain 1990 ( 100 damage or +5.3%)
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword (5 power infusion) 1st attack in chain 1997 ( +107 damage or +5.66%)

autoattack with exotic valkyrie sword 3rd attack in chain 3543
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword 3rd attack in chain 3731 ( 188 damage or +5.31%)
autoattack with ascended valkyrie sword (5 power infusion) 3rd attack in chain 3745 ( +202 damage or +5.7%)

Zealot defense with exotic valkyrie sword 6260
Zealot defense with ascended valkyrie sword 6592 ( +332 damage or +5.3%)
Zealot defense with ascended valkyrie sword ( +5 power infusion) 6617 ( +357 damage or +5.7%)

It looks like with ascended infused weapon you can gain around +5.7% increase in damage which is worth for me to craft myself ascended weapons

Eurhetemec.9052:

You appear to be intentionally excluding the middle, which is a very strange and illogical way to argue.

You appear to be intentionally misreading my post, which is definitely a strange and illogical way to argue, I agree.

So I’m glad that nothing you said actually argued against what I said, which was: it is up to you and your playstyle to determine whether or not this matters. (Maybe assume people are trying to be helpful instead of deceptive?)

Eurhetemec.9052:

arabeth.2361:

So, bottom line for the thread:

~10-16% (estimated) increase in DPS, as a rough rule of thumb, using full (currently available) ascended gear. (Pretty much matches up with other estimates I’ve seen.)

Is this enough to matter? The answer is yes and no. It depends on the situation. 1 vs. 1 with evenly matched skill? Yes. In a giant zerg? No. So each person needs to answer this for themselves: how do you prefer to play?

You appear to be intentionally excluding the middle, which is a very strange and illogical way to argue.

In 1v1, 10-16% is a definite yes, I agree.

In 5v5 it would also definitely matter. In dungeons and Fractals it will definitely matter.

In zerg-based WvW and big events and super-easy stuff, obviously 10-16% is irrelevant, but so would 50% be, or even perhaps 100%.

So I don’t agree that it will be something you ask for yourself, at all. It will eventually come to you, whether you like it or not, unless you ONLY zerg-surf or do events/easy PvE.

Actually, I find your post to be the strange one. It’s like you’re trying to argue with someone using the same numbers he did. He merely pointed out the extremes, while you claim there’s a middle ground. Duh …

Cactus.2710:

Eurhetemec.9052:

arabeth.2361:

So, bottom line for the thread:

~10-16% (estimated) increase in DPS, as a rough rule of thumb, using full (currently available) ascended gear. (Pretty much matches up with other estimates I’ve seen.)

Is this enough to matter? The answer is yes and no. It depends on the situation. 1 vs. 1 with evenly matched skill? Yes. In a giant zerg? No. So each person needs to answer this for themselves: how do you prefer to play?

You appear to be intentionally excluding the middle, which is a very strange and illogical way to argue.

In 1v1, 10-16% is a definite yes, I agree.

In 5v5 it would also definitely matter. In dungeons and Fractals it will definitely matter.

In zerg-based WvW and big events and super-easy stuff, obviously 10-16% is irrelevant, but so would 50% be, or even perhaps 100%.

So I don’t agree that it will be something you ask for yourself, at all. It will eventually come to you, whether you like it or not, unless you ONLY zerg-surf or do events/easy PvE.

Actually, I find your post to be the strange one. It’s like you’re trying to argue with someone using the same numbers he did. He merely pointed out the extremes, while you claim there’s a middle ground. Duh …

Intentionally “leaving out” parts of information points to some things.

Its a fact that it impacts WHOLE www.

arabeth.2361:

Eurhetemec.9052:

You appear to be intentionally excluding the middle, which is a very strange and illogical way to argue.

You appear to be intentionally misreading my post, which is definitely a strange and illogical way to argue, I agree.

So I’m glad that nothing you said actually argued against what I said, which was: it is up to you and your playstyle to determine whether or not this matters. (Maybe assume people are trying to be helpful instead of deceptive?)

I do normally assume that – however you appear to be attempting to suggest that players will be able to choose whether they get affected by this. Which would be supported by the examples you gave. That you appeared to claim that, and then left out the rather obvious examples which wouldn’t support that argument seems if not misleading, then rather poor wording.

In the short term this won’t be a big deal. In the longer term, it is going to affect anyone outside of super-easy or zerg content. In the even longer term, it is likely to affect ArenaNet balancing decisions, which will impact even zerg content.

The difference IS big.
Before ascended gear, the mob in cursed shore i was running testing on would be two-shot only if both of my CnD and Backstab would crit. After introduction of ascended, you would kill the mob most of the time with just ONE crit on those two attacks. With ascended weapons I suppose this will be a sure kill.
Now imagine same situation in wvw. I don’t know about you, but for me on both thief and engineer running away at 200-1000 hp is a usual deal and that is exactly how much more damage people will do in average.

Vanthian.9267:

Exotics:

Power: 2089 without food buffs or bloodlust or might

ASCENDED

Power: 2309 without food buffs or bloodlust or might
!

How did you get this 220 power difference? I just checked the difference between full berserker ascended trinkets + weapon on a staff and the difference I came up with was 62 power, 32 precision, and 8% crit dmg.

The difference is calculated on the basis of one attack swing. Even if it’s just 1% difference, all the swings needed to kill an enemy will add up. The extra states are nice to have too, especially for pvt

Unnamed.5430:

Vanthian.9267:

Exotics:

Power: 2089 without food buffs or bloodlust or might

ASCENDED

Power: 2309 without food buffs or bloodlust or might
!

How did you get this 220 power difference? I just checked the difference between full berserker ascended trinkets + weapon on a staff and the difference I came up with was 62 power, 32 precision, and 8% crit dmg.

This thread is fairly old. He probably doesn’t remember anymore.

I disagree that it matters in dungeons, or Fractals with the exception of very high level Fracs.

Sure it ‘makes a difference’ but it does matter.

Dungeons get smashed in all exotic gear with plenty of room for error. The difference that Ascended makes in dungeon may make a difference to speed clear groups and that is about it.

GOSU.9574:

Wait til full ascended gear is in game, get back to me. I want to continue to read what a trifle amount of difference it makes. If it was so trifling would anet continue to beef up end game event encounters?

It’s a gear treadmill that has to be balanced with a beefing up of content difficulty (more beef). At what point will you clear the smoke from the mirrors?

+1