Guild Wars 2

KarlaGrey.5903:

Galen Grey.4709:

As for recycled innovation again similar story, its like people saying dynamic events existed already in rift or Living story is not something new. If you want to see a pattern you’re going to see a pattern. Nothing can ever be so unique as to not resemble anything that came before its just not possible.

Firstly, the ‘dynamic’ part of the events is merely about periodic repetitions of one and the same thing on one and the same spot. Over and over again. By that definition, the sun rising and setting must be the epitome of dynamic irl. Dynamic events are nothing new because they are merely automated quests on a repeat button. If you wanna call that innovation, be my guest.

Moreover, saying nothing can be truly unique does not an argument make – it does not make it fine that things are repetitive and recycled, or that they have such an impact.

Nice zing. But I do give Anet credit for wardrobe changes, for its simplification and unification among characters and allowing players to use their hardearned gear in PvP, instant retraiting system allowing one to change builds on the fly, engi buffs almost to the point of OP (if only they buffed Necros to the same extent in PvE), Crit Damage nerf thus indirectly nerfing Berserker ascended and the need to get said gear.

The whole problem with GW2 is that no one really knows if there are any concrete development plans for the game; if any despite all the PR Blurb. People can trash XXX all they want, XXXXXXXX Online introed veteran dungeons fairly quickly and outlined their plans in a very clear cut way. They seem to be very open to feedback too. (Names protected to prevent infractions and flaming).

Look saying dynamic events aren’t dynamic is false, only from this point of view. They scale dynamically. As people leave they get weaker. As people come they get stronger. That makes them dynamic.

But aside from that we need to call them something other than just quests, because they’re not like quests from traditional games. So they named them dynamic events. Not every name for every thing has to be literal anyway.

I mean I don’t think that when I get on a non-stop flight, the flight isn’t going to stop. I know it’ll stop at some point…hopefully at my destination. A non-stop flight would go forever.

Things get named all the time. And dynamic events, because they are events that scale dynamically are aptly named.

You have to wonder about those that find nothing redeeming in a game. Why would they continue to play?

If they no longer play, have left, say, six months, a year ago, how can they judge any of the new content or changes that have occurred since their departure?

If they are just using the feedback of others to form their opinion, having no personal experience, then are they just following the ‘popular’ pack? Is that the game they prefer to play now?

I know when I find an activity disgusting and it no longer provides me any entertainment, I engage in something else I do find entertaining.

Lol. I guess those that don’t move on prefer to play ‘Forum Wars’, wherever that may be. =P

Vayne.8563:

Look saying dynamic events aren’t dynamic is false, only from this point of view. They scale dynamically. As people leave they get weaker. As people come they get stronger. That makes them dynamic.

Things get named all the time. And dynamic events, because they are events that scale dynamically are aptly named.

Or have a different name. It isn’t a staggeringly new concept.

“A public quest progresses through several stages as it continuously runs. They are dynamic, meaning that the content will scale up or down in difficulty depending on how many players are actively participating in the PQ and whether the stages were successes or failures. The mobs in PQs are non-contested. This means that they cannot be locked, that you cannot kill steal and that you can jump in and assist an ungrouped player with a mob they’re working on”

http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Public_Quests_%28EQ2%29

@Vayne, by your definition (i.e. invoking the argument of scaling) the entire game can be called dynamic then. ‘Dynamic Wars’, anyone?

Dynamic events are just automated quests or chains of quests, but obviously no one would call them like that as it’d kill all the ‘sparkle’. However, saying they’re anything beyond that that is just fanboyism.
They’re cool the first time you participate in them, ok the 2nd time, and just ‘get me out of here’ the n-th time.

At Teofa, +1

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Look saying dynamic events aren’t dynamic is false, only from this point of view. They scale dynamically. As people leave they get weaker. As people come they get stronger. That makes them dynamic.

Things get named all the time. And dynamic events, because they are events that scale dynamically are aptly named.

Or have a different name. It isn’t a staggeringly new concept.

“A public quest progresses through several stages as it continuously runs. They are dynamic, meaning that the content will scale up or down in difficulty depending on how many players are actively participating in the PQ and whether the stages were successes or failures. The mobs in PQs are non-contested. This means that they cannot be locked, that you cannot kill steal and that you can jump in and assist an ungrouped player with a mob they’re working on”

http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Public_Quests_%28EQ2%29

Did public quests chain? Did they have different pass/fail situations? I can think of at least one dynamic event (and I’m sure there are more) that lead to different events if you beat them and a completely different event if you fail. I"m not sure public quests did that.

Regardless, different event types are known in different games differently. A warrior in one game is a fighter in another. I think public quests is a terrible name. Did everyone have to take the quest? Did it spawn based on certain criteria.

What I remember from early PQ events in Warhammer was that they were scheduled and you showed up on schedule. Did the events affect each other?

In Guild Wars 2, I was doing an escort and the escort stopped. I thought it was a bug. I couldn’t get the guy to move. I go down the road a bit and I realize there’s another event going on there, and the bridge is out. The event can’t continue until that event is done. That’s pretty dynamic.

But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games. That is to say, a lot of the problems with DEs in Rift came from having quests in the first place.

When I stared playing Rift in beta 4, events were left in place until the players beat them. But players complained about this. Because they wanted to cash in their regular ordinary quests at the quest hub, and it wasn’t available to them. So Trion changed the game so that if no one bothered with it the event would just evaporate.

You can take all the pages you want from all the wikis you want and post them here, but Anet took a big step forward by abandoning the traditional questing model in favor of dynamic events. You may not like what Anet has done, but no one else has come close to doing something similar. It’s why I’m here.

KarlaGrey.5903:

@Vayne, by your definition (i.e. invoking the argument of scaling) the entire game can be called dynamic then. ‘Dynamic Wars’, anyone?

Dynamic events are just automated quests or chains of quests, but obviously no one would call them like that as it’d kill all the ‘sparkle’. However, saying they’re anything beyond that that is just fanboyism.
They’re cool the first time you participate in them, ok the 2nd time, and just ‘get me out of here’ the n-th time.

At Teofa, +1

This game still did one thing no other game has done (to my knowledge) to date. Read my response above because I’m not typing it twice.

LS is designed to give you something to do whilst they work on bigger stuff. Calm down, folks.

‘Dynamic’
continuously moving or changing
characterized by constant change, activity, or progress

Dynamic events are in essence static predetermined quests or chains of quests that occur at regular intervals. Like the sun rising and setting.

The change to questing was ok (although I believe a mix of the traditional and the new would be best), but the variety in questing is abysmal, which makes questing a terribly boring and repetitive task to undertake. Pity they forgot to ‘innovate’ when it comes to quest content. So no, they did not abandon traditional questing content wise – they’re the usual WoW-styled fetch-this kill-that run-there kind of quests – they just approached it from a different angle (spared you the extra walk back to the quest npc).

Yet the fans herald it as the alpha and omega of game innovation. Oh my.

KarlaGrey.5903:

‘Dynamic’
continuously moving or changing
characterized by constant change, activity, or progress

Dynamic events are in essence static predetermined quests or chains of quests that occur at regular intervals. Like the sun rising and setting.

The change to questing was ok (although I believe a mix of the usual and the new would be best), but the variety in questing is abysmal, which makes questing a terribly boring and repetitive task to undertake. Pity they forgot to ‘innovate’ when it comes to quest content. So no, they did not abandon traditional questing content wise – they’re the usual WoW-styled fetch-this kill-that run-there kind of quests – they just approached it from a different angle (spared you the extra walk back to the quest npc).

Yet the fans herald it as the alpha and omega of game innovation. Oh my.

No one heralded it as the alpha and omega as game innovation. I did say it was a step forward. What made it a step forward was forgoing the standard quest system, which Trion didn’t have the bottle to do with Rift.

You don’t like the game, other people do, so you belittle them for liking it. Sorry but that’s not how it works. You’re free not to like the game, but I’m sure many who like it are just as smart and just as well rounded as you are.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that different people can have different opinions, and just really enjoy it? Why is it even an issue for you?

“But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games.”

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

Ahh, but that is subjective, is it not? It can be great for many, or horrid for others. No one gets to decide, except for themselves, what constitutes great.

Lol. I think liver and onions is great, fantastic even, but I have come across many people that think it is just horrible. Same goes with sushi, it’s one of my favorite things to eat. Still, I often hear, “Ewww! Raw fish!”

KarlaGrey.5903:

“But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games.”

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

A greatest advancement is not the same as saying heralded. You need actually apply the language I used, instead of your interpretation of it because you think I see no wrong in this game.

A greatest advancement doesn’t have to be a great advancement. It has to be an advancement that is superior to other advancements. For example, a person’s greatest accomplishment in life might be to own a soda machine. That doesn’t make the accomplishment great. It’s only great compared to the other stuff that was done in that life.

Guild Wars 2, and I’ve said this before, is evolutionary, not revolutionary. It’s a half-step forward. But compared to what the rest of the industry has been doing for the last eight years, it might as well be revolutionary. It’s greatest advancement is relative. As others have noted, it’s the best thing out there right now, because most other stuff is crap. That doesn’t make Guild Wars 2 crap, but it certainly allows it to have greater advancements than its competitors. I hope that clears it up for you.

I can perfectly accept that you personally don’t see the game as I do. I never made fun of you for not seeing the game as I do. I don’t agree with many of your points. I think you exaagerate to make points (as what you did with this post right here and my words).

But when you go and start taking down about people who think this is a great game, it’s pretty uncool from my perspective.

Vayne.8563:

Tiami says in the story (minor minor spoiler) that she could improve waypoints so that they can be built without attracting the vines. So I wouldn’t worry just yet.

Lol, wrong thread?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Vayne.8563:

Tiami says in the story (minor minor spoiler) that she could improve waypoints so that they can be built without attracting the vines. So I wouldn’t worry just yet.

Lol, wrong thread?

Yep, it’s getting late I deleted it.

I see that, and re-posted it in the appropriate thread. =P

KarlaGrey.5903:

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

Agreed, Karla.

LoL. Save Moshpoipoi! Every… single… time I go through there.
Static is why we have the ravening horde doing the Frostgorge hampster wheel.
Static is why Shaman goes down faster than a tray of free Twinkies at a Walmart.
Static is why timers work.
etc.

A duck in a quaggan suit is still a duck. Even if the suit is unique to GW2. It’s still a duck.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

Agreed, Karla.

LoL. Save Moshpoipoi! Every… single… time I go through there.
Static is why we have the ravening horde doing the Frostgorge hampster wheel.
Static is why Shaman goes down faster than a tray of free Twinkies at a Walmart.
Static is why timers work.
etc.

A duck in a quaggan suit is still a duck. Even if the suit is unique to GW2. It’s still a duck.

In this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-all-agree-on/first
everyone agreed there where no ducks in game but there should be (even in the form of pies). So your analogy does not hold up.

any1 tried going on the epic quest of gathering and creating super rare weapons…or back pieces…..the struggle is real bruh….real….

Yargesh.4965:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

Agreed, Karla.

LoL. Save Moshpoipoi! Every… single… time I go through there.
Static is why we have the ravening horde doing the Frostgorge hampster wheel.
Static is why Shaman goes down faster than a tray of free Twinkies at a Walmart.
Static is why timers work.
etc.

A duck in a quaggan suit is still a duck. Even if the suit is unique to GW2. It’s still a duck.

In this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-all-agree-on/first
everyone agreed there where no ducks in game but there should be (even in the form of pies). So your analogy does not hold up.

It is a reference to “If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and Quacks like a duck, odds are, it’s a Duck”. And, ducks amuse me.
I know they aren’t in game. Just like, “cough” Static repeatable quests aren’t. Wink wink.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Yargesh.4965:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

Agreed, Karla.

LoL. Save Moshpoipoi! Every… single… time I go through there.
Static is why we have the ravening horde doing the Frostgorge hampster wheel.
Static is why Shaman goes down faster than a tray of free Twinkies at a Walmart.
Static is why timers work.
etc.

A duck in a quaggan suit is still a duck. Even if the suit is unique to GW2. It’s still a duck.

In this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-all-agree-on/first
everyone agreed there where no ducks in game but there should be (even in the form of pies). So your analogy does not hold up.

It is a reference to “If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and Quacks like a duck, odds are, it’s a Duck”. And, ducks amuse me.
I know they aren’t in game. Just like, “cough” Static repeatable quests aren’t. Wink wink.

wow, would never in a million year have guessed that.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Taygus.4571:

mrauls.6519:

Why should we not log in though :S we enjoy the game, it’s the reason we’re on the forums now posting our opinion. What you’re offering isn’t a solution but a pseudo feeling of receiving what we’re asking for

Ok log in, but don’t play LS

This is basically how it works in games that do expansions.No new content for months on end.
It’s what you’re asking for, so don’t play LS for 1 year. There’s your expansion.

Not even close to enough content for an expansion after 2 years, much less 1.

What do you count as content? I look at this list and see a lot of content:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

Vayne.8563:

KarlaGrey.5903:

“But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games.”

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

A greatest advancement is not the same as saying heralded. You need actually apply the language I used, instead of your interpretation of it because you think I see no wrong in this game.

A greatest advancement doesn’t have to be a great advancement. It has to be an advancement that is superior to other advancements. For example, a person’s greatest accomplishment in life might be to own a soda machine. That doesn’t make the accomplishment great. It’s only great compared to the other stuff that was done in that life.

Guild Wars 2, and I’ve said this before, is evolutionary, not revolutionary. It’s a half-step forward. But compared to what the rest of the industry has been doing for the last eight years, it might as well be revolutionary. It’s greatest advancement is relative. As others have noted, it’s the best thing out there right now, because most other stuff is crap. That doesn’t make Guild Wars 2 crap, but it certainly allows it to have greater advancements than its competitors. I hope that clears it up for you.

I can perfectly accept that you personally don’t see the game as I do. I never made fun of you for not seeing the game as I do. I don’t agree with many of your points. I think you exaagerate to make points (as what you did with this post right here and my words).

But when you go and start taking down about people who think this is a great game, it’s pretty uncool from my perspective.

What you say would hold true, if you hadn’t added the part about ‘like most games’. By doing so, you automatically put GW2 on a pedestal compared to other mmos who are out atm. If I were to rephrase that part, it’d be something along the lines of “unlike most games, GW2 did it right by ‘innovating’ with dynamic events”, which is, however, false to start with because said events are actually static, as explained in my previous posts.

Now, refer to

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

again, and stop beating about the bush with the argument of semantics. It’s your biggest give-away that you have ran out of arguments.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Vayne.8563:

KarlaGrey.5903:

“But Guild Wars 2’s greatest advancement (and this is where Rift dropped the ball in my opinion) is that it didn’t contain static events like most games.”

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

Ok then.

The funny thing is, they ARE static, you just don’t see them as such, because they’re wrapped around in cellophane, or something.

Why is it so hard to accept the game might not be as great as you picture it?

A greatest advancement is not the same as saying heralded. You need actually apply the language I used, instead of your interpretation of it because you think I see no wrong in this game.

A greatest advancement doesn’t have to be a great advancement. It has to be an advancement that is superior to other advancements. For example, a person’s greatest accomplishment in life might be to own a soda machine. That doesn’t make the accomplishment great. It’s only great compared to the other stuff that was done in that life.

Guild Wars 2, and I’ve said this before, is evolutionary, not revolutionary. It’s a half-step forward. But compared to what the rest of the industry has been doing for the last eight years, it might as well be revolutionary. It’s greatest advancement is relative. As others have noted, it’s the best thing out there right now, because most other stuff is crap. That doesn’t make Guild Wars 2 crap, but it certainly allows it to have greater advancements than its competitors. I hope that clears it up for you.

I can perfectly accept that you personally don’t see the game as I do. I never made fun of you for not seeing the game as I do. I don’t agree with many of your points. I think you exaagerate to make points (as what you did with this post right here and my words).

But when you go and start taking down about people who think this is a great game, it’s pretty uncool from my perspective.

What you say would hold true, if you hadn’t added the part about ‘like most games’. By doing so, you automatically put GW2 on a pedestal compared to other mmos who are out atm. If I were to rephrase that part, it’d be something among the lines of “unlike most games, GW2 did it right by ‘innovating’ with dynamic events”, which is, however, false to start with because said events are actually static, as explained in my previous posts.

Now, refer to

Herald, or acclaim
praise enthusiastically and publicly

again, and stop beating about the bush with the argument of semantics. It’s your biggest give-away that you have ran out of arguments.

I haven’t ran out of arguments. Everyone says, even people who agree with you, that this game is the best of a sorry lot. When you’re talking about what other games do wrong and this game does right, it’s a long list. Which doesn’t mean this game doesn’t do anything wrong. But heralding implies that I’m coming out here cold and, without prompting, I’m talking up the game. Heralding NEVER applies to defending the game from attacks that are completely unreasonable in my opinion.

If you want to call defending a point I hold to be true with heralding, then go right ahead. But you’d be wrong. I’m responding to what I see are unfair comments. That’s not my definition of heralding, nor is it any definition of heralding I’ve ever seen.

GW2 “expanded” the dynamic event concept to replace most traditional questing. Didn’t invent it. Didn’t much change the “I swung a sword” thing.

Another point, for me, the determination to not have traditional quest types narrowed what could be offered. We have huge and well done City zones, with no reason to explore them, save curiosity. A few fetch and deliver quests in them would not hurt.

Other times, a fetch and deliver works better to direct players to Lore content or story elements. They did a “bit” of this for LS, not much though. Delivery quests could have been used to direct players to gameplay elements as well. such as the Mystic Forge.

More options are always good, from my perpective. I feel Anet has ignored a lot of features/options simply to hype “we are innovative”.

/shrug.

I and Teofa clearly defined what dynamic events are, yet you are still heralding them as ‘something done right’ in comparison to other games. Thing is, you never had an argument to start with, because the events are as static as any other quest, yet here you are, defending oranges believing they’re apples.

Our arguments aren’t unfair. We’re simply call a spade a spade.

As mentioned earlier, the sun rising and setting must be the definition of dynamic according to that logic then.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I and Teofa clearly defined what dynamic events are, yet you are still heralding them as ‘something done right’ in comparison to other games. Thing is, you never had an argument to start with, because the events are as static as any other quest, yet here you are, defending oranges believing they’re apples.

Our arguments aren’t unfair. We’re simply call a spade a spade.

As mentioned earlier, the sun rising and setting must be the definition of dynamic according to that logic then.

To be fair Karla, those oranges are wearing apple costumes.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

GW2 “expanded” the dynamic event concept to replace most traditional questing. Didn’t invent it. Didn’t much change the “I swung a sword” thing.

Another point, for me, the determination to not have traditional quest types narrowed what could be offered. We have huge and well done City zones, with no reason to explore them, save curiosity. A few fetch and deliver quests in them would not hurt.

Other times, a fetch and deliver works better to direct players to Lore content or story elements. They did a “bit” of this for LS, not much though. Delivery quests could have been used to direct players to gameplay elements as well.

More options are always good, from my perpective. I feel Anet has ignored a lot of features/options simply to hype “we are innovative”.

/shrug.

There is a one thing that so many people seem to forget, over and over again. A game is not a collection of single features, but it’s a combination of features. Like everyone uses the same words to write stories, but all stories are different. It’s the combination of features that make this game unique.

For example, dynamic events, without traditional questing. In your cut and paste paragraph, you pointed out that other events scaled and the you couldn’t kill steal in them. Everyone got credit. But how many games have had dynamic events without the ability to kill steal anywhere? In how many of those games did they have mining nodes that no one could steal? In how many of those games did they have the ability of people to rez each other without using a skill slot…anyone to rez? In how many of those games did they have a game that didn’t center on raids and gear progression. In how many of those games does downleveling exist? In how many of those games allow you to move and cast at the same time.

See it’s not one thing that makes this game unique. But Anet DID have a vision for this game. A living world. A world that changed over time. A cooperative PvE experience instead of a competitive one.

There’s no other MMO that gives me that. Not one…except this one.

It might not be your thing and that’s fair enough. But the selection of individual features this game gives me in combination fits my personal play style far better than WoW, Lotro, DDO, SWToR, Aion, Runes of Magic, Perfect World, Eve Online, and others that I’ve tried.

I’m not a blind fan boy. I see issues with this game. But they’re probably not the same issues you see, and they certainly don’t take away from everything else this game has provided for me and players like me.

You can post a single feature from a single game all day long. But that game had static quests. It had gear grind up the kitten. It had kill stealing and node stealing.

So the small percentage of public quests it had compared to static ones…doesn’t really do much for me. From my point of view, for my play style, that game sucked.

And you know, if you liked it, that’s great, because there are different people who play games differently. That’s fine. But this game combines a lot of features from other games that have never all been in the same game at the same time before.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I and Teofa clearly defined what dynamic events are, yet you are still heralding them as ‘something done right’ in comparison to other games. Thing is, you never had an argument to start with, because the events are as static as any other quest, yet here you are, defending oranges believing they’re apples.

Our arguments aren’t unfair. We’re simply call a spade a spade.

As mentioned earlier, the sun rising and setting must be the definition of dynamic according to that logic then.

I’m calling a spade a spade too. I’ve given you a specific example from Rift of how dynamic events in that game, because they co-existed with static quests, ruined the game for me. That is to say, they dynamic events weren’t a main course, they were a side show. The open world didn’t center on them. Nor did it center on them in any other game.

If you choose to see this as not a difference, you can go right ahead believing that. I played Rift before Guild Wars 2 and left it because the dynamic events in Rift were a joke in comparison. A side show, not a focus.

That makes a huge different. Sorry you don’t see that but it doesn’t change the fact that it does.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You have to wonder about those that find nothing redeeming in a game. Why would they continue to play?

Actually, many of us play still, we just want more from the game. I dont think it’s too much to ask for a few more weapon skills over the course of 2 years.

Vayne.8563:

I’m calling a spade a spade too.

This guy’s posts and writing style remind me of David North from MMORPG.com who writes editorials on GW2.

KarlaGrey.5903:

I and Teofa clearly defined what dynamic events are, yet you are still heralding them as ‘something done right’ in comparison to other games. Thing is, you never had an argument to start with, because the events are as static as any other quest, yet here you are, defending oranges believing they’re apples.

Our arguments aren’t unfair. We’re simply call a spade a spade.

As mentioned earlier, the sun rising and setting must be the definition of dynamic according to that logic then.

uhh your wrong. something automatic can be dynamic. Dynamic means its always in motion, it doesnt mean its evolving, or altering itself.

A car going in circles is dynamic.

Any how, regardless dynamic quests are fundamently different from regular quests no matter what you call them. The fact they repeat doesnt really change this.

You are also ignoring that some of them are branching, and some of them will never repeat depending on what players are doing. In a small way, the events are somewhat driven by what the players are doing/have done. This is a fundamental difference in design.

Also, while dynamic events may be old hat the Nth time you see them, they still generate a different experience for the user, especially the really well designed ones. For example, lets say a bridge is down because people lost an event, that changes your experience the next time you are in the area, even if you dont particularly care about or even do the event.

unfortunately, i think anet is trying to limit the scope of dynamic events, and bring them close to just being automatic events.(which is still dynamic, but it doesnt use that fact to its full potential).

petespri.6548:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You have to wonder about those that find nothing redeeming in a game. Why would they continue to play?

Actually, many of us play still, we just want more from the game. I dont think it’s too much to ask for a few more weapon skills over the course of 2 years.

I’m guessing you find something redeeming about the game. I was referring to those that find nothing redeeming. Or, at least, according to their posts, they do not. (I suspect they do, but will never admit it.) ; )

Vayne.8563:

For example, dynamic events, without traditional questing. In your cut and paste paragraph, you pointed out that other events scaled and the you couldn’t kill steal in them. Everyone got credit. But how many games have had dynamic events without the ability to kill steal anywhere? In how many of those games did they have mining nodes that no one could steal? In how many of those games did they have the ability of people to rez each other without using a skill slot…anyone to rez? In how many of those games did they have a game that didn’t center on raids and gear progression. In how many of those games does downleveling exist? In how many of those games allow you to move and cast at the same time.

Some of the features you’re again heralding as innovations are actually a step backward.
- The ability to rez each other has serious implications for pvp, as it can trivialize good play, especially in an outnumbered situation (down one guy, the other can just rez him up indefinitely). It also trivializes pve to a point, but that’s less of an issue.
- Gear progression – well, I cant say it’s centered on ascended (which is, hands down, still a BiS set to obtain compared to the alternatives), because it’s more focused on the gem store.
- Downlevelling is again a double-edged sword – sometimes you WANT to be able to steamroll lower lvl content for this or that random item, or to quickly move forward with someone else.
Another issue with scaling is that not everyone who came close enough to be counted in might contribute, so you’re in essence scaling the event for the same amount of people, making it needlessly more difficult.
- Move and cast while walking again have serious implications for pvp, because they take away an element of skill and tactical judgement – is it safe to stop and cast a spell? Am I positioned right to escape a spike? Is it wise to pressure a target right now as a warrior?

I suppose you must’ve been traumatized by other mmos, and it is true many are nothing but a series of facepalming, but you seem to welcome even things that aren’t really a good thing, or aren’t ONLY a good thing.

Vayne.8563:

But Anet DID have a vision for this game. A living world. A world that changed over time. A cooperative PvE experience instead of a competitive one.

NO. Anet had a vision in GW, while it is rather obvious GW2 doesn’t quite now what it wants to be – it wishes to appeal to as wide an audience as possible while sacrificing niche player types, and often even part of the mainstream base in the process. Besides, they went back on many things listed in the manifesto, which was supposed to describe their vision for GW".

Vayne.8563:

There’s no other MMO that gives me that. Not one…except this one.

Why does it seem like you’re playing a game of make-believe though.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not a blind fan boy.

rite

Vayne.8563:

You can post a single feature from a single game all day long. But that game had static quests.

And so does this one.

Vayne.8563:

But this game combines a lot of features from other games that have never all been in the same game at the same time before.

I’m glad you at least admit the game brings nothing new to the table. Unfortunately, some things would have been better off staying in other games, while the original game ought receiving FAR more credit, as it made it possible to get where they are now.

Vayne.8563:

I’m calling a spade a spade too. I’ve given you a specific example from Rift of how dynamic events in that game, because they co-existed with static quests, ruined the game for me. That is to say, they dynamic events weren’t a main course, they were a side show. The open world didn’t center on them. Nor did it center on them in any other game.

And I’ve also given you a definition of what dynamic is. Just because such quest types ruined the game for you there, doesn’t mean they suddenly became a whole different thing here. Those two things have no relation to each other. Dynamic is dynamic, static is static. Just because they’re ‘the main course’ on GW2, they didn’t suddenly become more dynamic, just like the sun will still rise in the same manner at the same time whether it is observed it from Earth or from Venus. One could actually argue that centering the game around such events actually has more downsides than upsides – from zerging and the associated lagging to lack of immersion, as there are countless other players mashing 1111 to get their share of the loot, which is likely to be mediocre anyway.
However increasing the difficulty of such events can again pose an issue, because forcing a greater level of coordination from complete strangers of varying skill levels sounds like a recipe for disaster.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Some of the features you’re again heralding as innovations are actually a step backward.
- The ability to rez each other has serious implications for pvp, as it can trivialize good play, especially in an outnumbered situation (down one guy, the other can just rez him up indefinitely). It also trivializes pve to a point, but that’s less of an issue.
- Gear progression – well, I cant say it’s centered on ascended (which is, hands down, still a BiS set to obtain compared to the alternatives), because it’s more focused on the gem store.
- Downlevelling is again a double-edged sword – sometimes you WANT to be able to steamroll lower lvl content for this or that random item, or to quickly move forward with someone else.
Another issue with scaling is that not everyone who came close enough to be counted in might contribute, so you’re in essence scaling the event for the same amount of people, making it needlessly more difficult.
- Move and cast while walking again have serious implications for pvp, because they take away an element of skill and tactical judgement – is it safe to stop and cast a spell? Am I positioned right to escape a spike? Is it wise to pressure a target right now as a warrior?

I suppose you must’ve been traumatized by other mmos, and it is true many are nothing but a series of facepalming, but you seem to welcome even things that aren’t really a good thing, or aren’t ONLY a good thing.

Vayne.8563:

But Anet DID have a vision for this game. A living world. A world that changed over time. A cooperative PvE experience instead of a competitive one.

snip

Vayne.8563:

There’s no other MMO that gives me that. Not one…except this one.

Why does it seem like you’re playing a game of make-believe though.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not a blind fan boy.

rite

Vayne.8563:

You can post a single feature from a single game all day long. But that game had static quests.

And so does this one.

Vayne.8563:

But this game combines a lot of features from other games that have never all been in the same game at the same time before.

I’m glad you at least admit the game brings nothing new to the table. Unfortunately, some things would have been better off staying in other games, while the original game ought receiving FAR more credit, as it made it possible to get where they are now.

Vayne.8563:

I’m calling a spade a spade too. I’ve given you a specific example from Rift of how dynamic events in that game, because they co-existed with static quests, ruined the game for me. That is to say, they dynamic events weren’t a main course, they were a side show. The open world didn’t center on them. Nor did it center on them in any other game.

And I’ve also given you a definition of what dynamic is. Just because such quest types ruined the game for you there, doesn’t mean they suddenly became a whole different thing here. Those two things have no relation to each other. Dynamic is dynamic, static is static. Just because they’re ‘the main course’ on GW2, they didn’t suddenly become more dynamic, just like the sun will still rise in the same manner at the same time whether it is observed it from Earth or from Venus. One could actually argue that centering the game around such events actually has more downsides than upsides – from zerging and the associated lagging to lack of immersion, as there are countless other players mashing 1111 to get their share of the loot, which is likely to be mediocre anyway.
However increasing the difficulty of such events can again pose an issue, because forcing a greater level of coordination from complete strangers of varying skill levels sounds like a recipe for disaster.

See there you go again. Terms like a step backwards. No. A step backwards FOR YOU. For how you want to play.

These are a step forward for me and how I want to play. That’s exactly my point.

For your play style and what you want to do, this game isn’t that good. For my play style, this game is better.

And neither of us are alone in our play styles. But the way you come off talking about the game, you try to make it sound like the things you’re saying are factual, when they’re just your opinion.

And you know, your opinion is valid. But you express it in a combative way and then wonder why people argue with you. Like when you say stuff like Anet didn’t have a vision for this game. I don’t agree. And you can’t know.

Do people really get joy from repeating the same thing for almost two years?

Yargesh.4965:

Do people really get joy from repeating the same thing for almost two years?

Who me?

I have no problems with giving credit where credit is due, anyone reading my thoughts on Gear Progression would see that. Anet, so far, is handling power creep waay better than most games. It is a good philosophy carried over from GW. (and no, lol, ascended are NOT the power creep I have seen in Most MMOs.. but they need to not do any more of that. IMO).

I don’t feel I need to trot out a laundry list of things I do like in order to validate opinions on what I don’t like. Or, to point out the Emperor isn’t actually wearing anything.
IMO

Vayne.8563:

Yargesh.4965:

Do people really get joy from repeating the same thing for almost two years?

Who me?

You, them. You just enable each other.

You people have to be realistic here. The tech we have now, is very limiting as to what it could do. I’m mostly talking about hardware, and databases, etc. Scripted events is the best we have, no matter what game it is. Until we get A.I. that can rationally think, and hardware that can handle all the processing, there’s really no point hoping for something that won’t be here in the near future. Some of you are expecting a perpetual changing environment, which is unrealistic. I could’ve typed this out better, but i’m tired. lol.

Yargesh.4965:

Vayne.8563:

Yargesh.4965:

Do people really get joy from repeating the same thing for almost two years?

Who me?

You, them. You just enable each other.

I’m not talking to them. The funny bit is, it’s not them that need to hear this. It’s other people.

A couple of days ago there was a thread on these forums where some guy demanded that Anet removed the megaserver. He made a petition. He was enraged by the complaints he saw on the forums. After he made his post, most people in the thread, practically all, came out in favor of the megaserver. It was like 8-2 before the thread got deleted. That guy read the thread about the megaserver complaints, got angry and posted. Then people messaged him and explained to him the value and he deleted his post. He posted that just before the thread was deleted.

The point is, most people who read forums don’t post in forums and many of them read casually. By posting what I post, I’m not trying to change Karla’s mind. I wouldn’t even begin to attempt it.

All I’m doing it showing a counterpoint to stuff I consider to be unfairly expressed (which I think it my right to do).

Do I get tired of it? Sure I do. And sometimes I take a break from it. But I think people need to see that the negative, which is far more prevalent on these forums, is not the only point of view.

And I do periodically get forum mail from lurkers who thank me for doing what I do.

Vayne.8563:

Yargesh.4965:

Vayne.8563:

Yargesh.4965:

Do people really get joy from repeating the same thing for almost two years?

Who me?

You, them. You just enable each other.

I’m not talking to them. The funny bit is, it’s not them that need to hear this. It’s other people.

A couple of days ago there was a thread on these forums where some guy demanded that Anet removed the megaserver. He made a petition. He was enraged by the complaints he saw on the forums. After he made his post, most people in the thread, practically all, came out in favor of the megaserver. It was like 8-2 before the thread got deleted. That guy read the thread about the megaserver complaints, got angry and posted. Then people messaged him and explained to him the value and he deleted his post. He posted that just before the thread was deleted.

The point is, most people who read forums don’t post in forums and many of them read casually. By posting what I post, I’m not trying to change Karla’s mind. I wouldn’t even begin to attempt it.

All I’m doing it showing a counterpoint to stuff I consider to be unfairly expressed (which I think it my right to do).

Do I get tired of it? Sure I do. And sometimes I take a break from it. But I think people need to see that the negative, which is far more prevalent on these forums, is not the only point of view.

And I do periodically get forum mail from lurkers who thank me for doing what I do.

Have fun then.

Hybarf Tics.2048:

Yes with the new LS 2 things are better but with Anet’s big silence treatment with no expansion pack in sight and still unwilling to give us the time of day, I’m now down to dailies and monthlies and 1 day of LS per 2 weeks. At this rate even the added content will take a full 4 months to give us 1 map, proof look at Dry Top after 1 month of content it’s 25% the size of Brisband Wildland.

It takes 2 months for 1 map to be created and ready based on 5 years of production for 25 zones and 5 cities which is what GW 2 started with and don’t forget Anet had 170 employees when it started the game by the time they finished it they were about 330 and now 370.

The company is getting bigger yearly and still producing at a freak’in turtle pace. I started on day one of GW 1. Anet’s the company that gave me faith in MMO’s and also the one who’s making me loose faith in MMO’s.

So I guess It’s dailies until the 29th and then I’ll see you back in Dry Top for a full day of excitement in 12% of added zone content. Anet you’re becoming a big let down.

What does the thumbs up thing do on the forum?

nexxe.7081:

You people have to be realistic here. The tech we have now, is very limiting as to what it could do. I’m mostly talking about hardware, and databases, etc. Scripted events is the best we have, no matter what game it is. Until we get A.I. that can rationally think, and hardware that can handle all the processing, there’s really no point hoping for something that won’t be here in the near future. Some of you are expecting a perpetual changing environment, which is unrealistic. I could’ve typed this out better, but i’m tired. lol.

That would indeed be the only truly dynamic kind of events, correct. But just because the tech isn’t there yet does not warrant pretending apples are oranges.

Vayne.8563:

snip

You’re mistaking opinions with definitions (of ‘dynamic’).
Not only that, I listed perfectly valid arguments against some features you seem to love – given how this game has nothing going for it pvp-wise, keeping them won’t really do much harm at this point, however, changing them for the better could still be seen as a significant QoL. After all, features aimed towards the masses – ‘dynamic’ events, the downstate, moving while casting/attacking – merely dumbed the game down to make it ‘more accessible’.

Also, you’re not really ‘showing a counterpoint’, all you are saying is it’s ok to pretend apples are oranges, because you like oranges.

KarlaGrey.5903:

nexxe.7081:

You people have to be realistic here. The tech we have now, is very limiting as to what it could do. I’m mostly talking about hardware, and databases, etc. Scripted events is the best we have, no matter what game it is. Until we get A.I. that can rationally think, and hardware that can handle all the processing, there’s really no point hoping for something that won’t be here in the near future. Some of you are expecting a perpetual changing environment, which is unrealistic. I could’ve typed this out better, but i’m tired. lol.

That would indeed be the only truly dynamic kind of events, correct. But just because the tech isn’t there yet does not warrant pretending apples are oranges.

Vayne.8563:

snip

You’re mistaking opinions with definitions (of ‘dynamic’).
Not only that, I listed perfectly valid arguments against some features you seem to love – given how this game has nothing going for it pvp-wise, keeping them won’t really do much harm at this point, however, changing them for the better could still be seen as a significant QoL. After all, features aimed towards the masses – ‘dynamic’ events, the downstate, moving while casting/attacking – merely dumbed the game down to make it ‘more accessible’.

Dynamic events I like. The downstate I like. Moving while casting, I like. Words like “dumbed down” are just red herrings here.

There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with any of that stuff. Now, hard core PvPers might not love the downed state, that much is true. I’m sure they’re a pretty small percentage of the player base, and I don’t think decisions should be made around them.

I don’t see anything wrong with making a game for the rest of the world. It’s nice that people want their hard core, competitive stuff. Most MMOs cater to that to one degree or another.

Making a game that’s more accessible (which you call dumbing down to make that sound bad) is not a bad thing. It’s a good thing.

It’s not going to be a game for everyone. And that’s okay too.

Vayne.8563:

Yargesh.4965:

Vayne.8563:

Yargesh.4965:

Do people really get joy from repeating the same thing for almost two years?

Who me?

You, them. You just enable each other.

I’m not talking to them. The funny bit is, it’s not them that need to hear this. It’s other people.

The point is, most people who read forums don’t post in forums and many of them read casually. By posting what I post, I’m not trying to change Karla’s mind. I wouldn’t even begin to attempt it.

All I’m doing it showing a counterpoint to stuff I consider to be unfairly expressed (which I think it my right to do).

Do I get tired of it? Sure I do. And sometimes I take a break from it. But I think people need to see that the negative, which is far more prevalent on these forums, is not the only point of view.

And I do periodically get forum mail from lurkers who thank me for doing what I do.

Seriously? I don’t post for lurkers, fan mail or the 9 pages of upvoted comments I have. I could care less. There is one type of person I want to see what I write, and they work for Anet.

As in this thread. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/Living-content-disrupting-other-content/first#post1862130

I got blasted by the usual types. (/waves @ krall) I got all the grief expected for daring to post a negative view. No Dev responded and I didn’t expect one. But.. the periscopes were changed shortly after and I’d like to think the thread brought attention to it.

People say the LS storytelling has improved. Do you think that may have a connection to LS1 being blasted in the forums?

That is why I post.

That the game is easier to play because of those features and has lost a lot of depth in the process isn’t a red herring. It’s a fact. It just so happens that pvp is affected more (in general, not just this supposed ‘hard-core playerbase’), but it also has consequences for the pve, which I surely listed above.

Making the game accessible should not equal dumbing it down. Sacrificing depth at the expense of making it more available is what mediocre games do (and unlike I, you seem to consider GW2 more than that). It’s what your typical mmo does to gain as big a playerbase as possible. But invoking the argument of ‘the causal’ to dumb the game down is an insult to said playerbase – bad players will be bad even in a game that has been dumbed down, while the rest (including casuals) which could have played the game even if it had more depth will be left with less means to make a difference.
And yet you call such a thing a plus. Man I don’t even….

KarlaGrey.5903:

The fact the game is easier to play because of those features and has lost a lot of depth in the process isn’t a red herring. It’s a fact. It just so happens that pvp is affected more (in general, not just this supposed ‘hard-core playerbase’), but it also has consequences for the pve, which I surely listed above.

Making the game accessible should not equal dumbing it down. Sacrificing depth at the expense of making it more available is what mediocre games do (and unlike I, you seem to consider GW2 more than that). It’s what your typical mmo does to gain as big a playerbase as possible. But invoking the argument of ‘the causal’ to dumb the game down is an insult to said playerbase – bad players will be bad even in a game that has been dumbed down, while the rest (including casuals) which could have played the game even if it had more depth will be left with less means to make a difference.
And yet you call such a thing a plus. Man I don’t even….

Depth means different things to different people. Build diversity has certainly suffered, that much is true.

But that build diversity from Guild Wars 1 you cherish so much came with with a whole host of problems that have been acknowledged elsewhere. You simple prefer those problems. I prefer these problems.

And people wonder why I though GW was an PvP only game.

See, I don’t give a mouse’s backside about PvP. To me all PvP players are ego driven, energy drink fueled twitch monkeys screaming profanities into their head sets that would get them seriously pummeled if they every said those things to another human being face to face. Fortunately here they stuck all of them off to their own little world where the rest of us don’t have to be bothered with their machinations.

I like moving while “casting”. I never considered it a “tactical” decision on my part when playing other MMOs but rather a game engine limitation. It’s simpler to do a “cast” animation if the player was rooted. It was the lazy programmer way out of a problem. Note: I’m a programmer by profession and we are a lazy bunch by trade. Clever but lazy.

I like that the best way to mitigate damage is to avoid being hit instead of conceptualizing “armor” as the primary means to reduce damage or avoid being hit.

The combination of the previous two features makes the game feel more like a fight scene in an action flick than playing Rock-em Sock-em Robots.

But everyone has their own opinion and have the ability to stop playing a game they dislike so. Remember, every feature you dislike Karla was decided by ArenaNet to be a better way of designing an MMO. You can disagree all day but if the previous two years are any indication, most of those decisions are here to stay. Try to hold back the tide as much as you want but in the end it’s coming in if you want it or not.

Behellagh.1468:

And people wonder why I though GW was an PvP only game.

LOL. I looked at it on the shelves for 2 years and went “eh, pvp game” /facepalm.