Guild Wars 2

Chrispy.5641:

A person with 80 inventory slots can fill all that up in about 10 minutes of killing things. (probably has 20 or so slots taken already by gear and items)

A veteran player who already had 160 inventory slots (and got them cheaper back in the day) can fill all of that up in about 20 minutes. (probably has a lot filled with gear and other items)

Lets say it takes 5 minutes to go to the vendor and sell everything and travel back. And lets say you get 50 silver from selling all of that. One cycle of the player with 80 slots is 15 minutes. One cycle of the player with 160 slots is 25 minutes.

15 minutes for 50 silver. 25 minutes for 1 gold.

After an hour. New player with 80 slots has 2 gold. Veteran player has 2 gold from 2 runs, and already halfway through another run with 50 more silver.

That’s 2 gold to 2.5 gold. Veteran player gets 25% more gold per hour than the new player (or new player has 20% less, however you look at it).

Since this while game is all about looking cooler than everyone else, and looking cooler than everyone else requires the most expensive skins…veteran Player wins, and the newer player can have the same advantage by either grinding for hundreds of hours, or just buying his way in.

Therefore…Pay to win, or I guess technically its pay to equality.

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. Try again. Seriously, this is hilarious. Keep giving reasons that aren’t actually reasons, or tackle to issue head on!

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

If you are power farmer it should only take you a couple of weeks to get the gold for an extra bag slot. If you are not a power farmer then the extra bag slot merely allows you to a bit lazier.

It should also be noted that the Silverwastes is very easy on bag space thanks to most of the loot being in containers, so the idea that this is some sort of cynical pay to win scheme is even more absurd.

Convenience items like this being in the gem store where a lot of players are encouraged to occasionally put in less than they would for a sub. fee is a much better system that the “lucky dip” boxes where they encourage a small percentage of “whales” with poor impulse control to buy an absurd number of gems.

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

Stats matter in WvW. Unless it somehow doesn’t, come challenge me in White gear while I eat you alive in Ascended gear with food/nourishment. I wait for your response.

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. Try again. Seriously, this is hilarious. Keep giving reasons that aren’t actually reasons, or tackle to issue head on!

If the loot is more valuable than salvage, then you are more than enough to convert your gold from loot into gem, problem solved. It is working as intended.

Crossaber.8934:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. Try again. Seriously, this is hilarious. Keep giving reasons that aren’t actually reasons, or tackle to issue head on!

If the loot is more valuable than salvage, then you are more than enough to convert your gold from loot into gem, problem solved. It is working as intended.

I never said it wasn’t working as intended. Try again.

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

Stats matter in WvW. Unless it somehow doesn’t, come challenge me in White gear while I eat you alive in Ascended gear with food/nourishment. I wait for your response.

we´r talking 100s against 100s here you not having nurishment or food wont affect that much, its not some 1v1 dueling arena. (spvp is for dueling and its that way -> and there you cant use either food/nurishment fyi )
Its how well your servers commanders organise agains the other 2 servers commanders really.
Edit
As you like saying Try again.

dietzero.3514:

So borderline pay to win.

yep, yesterday i met a player of the opposing team in wvwvw and stored him in my new bought bank space

Cormac.3871:

If you are power farmer it should only take you a couple of weeks to get the gold for an extra bag slot. If you are not a power farmer then the extra bag slot merely allows you to a bit lazier.

It should also be noted that the Silverwastes is very easy on bag space thanks to most of the loot being in containers, so the idea that this is some sort of cynical pay to win scheme is even more absurd.

Convenience items like this being in the gem store where a lot of players are encouraged to occasionally put in less than they would for a sub. fee is a much better system that the “lucky dip” boxes where they encourage a small percentage of “whales” with poor impulse control to buy an absurd number of gems.

Not against the gem store leeching money from people with more money than sense, but space should never have been a gemstore item. Even though it was fine when the game launched (when I bought everything), it is ridiculously cost prohibitive now and needs to be changed.

‘Hey new player! Save for a month and you can get a bag slot!’

Yeah, so awesome…

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

Stats matter in WvW. Unless it somehow doesn’t, come challenge me in White gear while I eat you alive in Ascended gear with food/nourishment. I wait for your response.

we´r talking 100s against 100s here you not having nurishment or food wont affect that much, its not some 1v1 dueling arena. (spvp is for dueling and its that way -> and there you cant use either food/nurishment fyi )
Its how well your servers commanders organise agains the other 2 servers commanders really.
Edit
As you like saying Try again.

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

dietzero.3514:

Cormac.3871:

If you are power farmer it should only take you a couple of weeks to get the gold for an extra bag slot. If you are not a power farmer then the extra bag slot merely allows you to a bit lazier.

It should also be noted that the Silverwastes is very easy on bag space thanks to most of the loot being in containers, so the idea that this is some sort of cynical pay to win scheme is even more absurd.

Convenience items like this being in the gem store where a lot of players are encouraged to occasionally put in less than they would for a sub. fee is a much better system that the “lucky dip” boxes where they encourage a small percentage of “whales” with poor impulse control to buy an absurd number of gems.

Not against the gem store leeching money from people with more money than sense, but space should never have been a gemstore item. Even though it was fine when the game launched (when I bought everything), it is ridiculously cost prohibitive now and needs to be changed.

‘Hey new player! Save for a month and you can get a bag slot!’

Yeah, so awesome…

Who got the right to define which item belong to gem store or not? neither you nor me, the right is Anet.

Is inventory important? Definitely. Can we play without extra storage? Definitely. Do a player with more storage got more skill over the player with less storage? Depends. Can we gain storage without paying extra penny? Definitely.

Are new players paying more to buy storage than veteran? No, the gem price remains the same. Remember, convert gold to gem =/= buy, you are actually paying none.

Chrispy.5641:

No, you’re doing it exactly right. Your problem is the assumption that if the advantage is small enough, it no longer exists, and also failing to admit that. That is also the problem of the guy who replied to you.

Man, you guys would have fun playing Destiny, where all the weapons’ kill times are balanced to within milliseconds of each other, well, except for the part where those milliseconds count. Same as in this game when it comes to making lots of gold and making lots of gold fast.

Yeah, but let’s stop right here and you can tell me how having an apparent infinite supply of Gold (and nothing else) helps me “win” things like WvW. Or sPvP reward track items. Or Luminescent skins.

I can be sitting on a pile of gold big enough to make Evon Gnashblade jealous and . . . I win what exactly?

Tale Destiny, and I have tried it but it was so not my cup of tea . . . FPS games just can’t be entertaining to me anymore . . . but assume I go fight Crota, Son of Oryx at the end of the raid. Does it matter if I am not set up for complete advantage, so long as I’m actively not trying to die and managing to do the steps needed to be done (kill swordbearer, protect guy with sword, drop Crota with damage, and kill Oversoul when it shows up)? Do I really need to have the bleeding edge?

Experience, and experienced players, have led me to the answer of “no”. Squeezing every advantage point to reach the peak of performance isn’t something which needs to be worried about.

About the only thing I can win is the admiration of people I don’t know, don’t care about, and would probably admire me more if I did it without the Absolute Best. I mean, anyone can wreck a Tigrex . . . but how many people do it naked with a rusty sword?

I never said it was a bad thing, so stop replying to me assuming that I’m being negative just because I called it pay-to-win. Try again, or don’t reply to me. Either way, whatever. you have yet to prove yourself right in any way.

Eh, as I said, I’ve seen “pay to win” in spades. I’ve seen a lot, honestly, which makes me stop and look over at the people who label these things and go “really?”.

Now, on the topic of bag space being an issue and the Gem Store selling things? I’m mostly okay with it – 105 slots from filling up with 20 slot bags and a 25 slot backpack.

Make two of them salvage kits so you can salvage on the run, and do your salvages when you’re auto-attacking something. Sell your wares at any stop by basically liquidating anything (make a bag an Invisible/Safe bag and you can tuck important things there to keep em from selling on accident). Consistently hit your “Deposit Materials” button so you don’t fill up on the crafting materials. Need a bank? WvW Borderlands has you covered. Stash anything in there and if you get a full stack of materials in your storage, fish it out and start a new one.

Not sure how much of an issue it is to have the extra 60 slots to play around with and fill up when you are active about liquidating your loot on a regular basis.

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

Stats matter in WvW. Unless it somehow doesn’t, come challenge me in White gear while I eat you alive in Ascended gear with food/nourishment. I wait for your response.

we´r talking 100s against 100s here you not having nurishment or food wont affect that much, its not some 1v1 dueling arena. (spvp is for dueling and its that way -> and there you cant use either food/nurishment fyi )
Its how well your servers commanders organise agains the other 2 servers commanders really.
Edit
As you like saying Try again.

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

I dont know when this fight about food/nursihment not being needed in WvW turned into white vs ascended gear tbh maybe you should read what the argument was about a second time. Try again

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrispy.5641:

No, you’re doing it exactly right. Your problem is the assumption that if the advantage is small enough, it no longer exists, and also failing to admit that. That is also the problem of the guy who replied to you.

Man, you guys would have fun playing Destiny, where all the weapons’ kill times are balanced to within milliseconds of each other, well, except for the part where those milliseconds count. Same as in this game when it comes to making lots of gold and making lots of gold fast.

Yeah, but let’s stop right here and you can tell me how having an apparent infinite supply of Gold (and nothing else) helps me “win” things like WvW. Or sPvP reward track items. Or Luminescent skins.

I can be sitting on a pile of gold big enough to make Evon Gnashblade jealous and . . . I win what exactly?

Tale Destiny, and I have tried it but it was so not my cup of tea . . . FPS games just can’t be entertaining to me anymore . . . but assume I go fight Crota, Son of Oryx at the end of the raid. Does it matter if I am not set up for complete advantage, so long as I’m actively not trying to die and managing to do the steps needed to be done (kill swordbearer, protect guy with sword, drop Crota with damage, and kill Oversoul when it shows up)? Do I really need to have the bleeding edge?

Experience, and experienced players, have led me to the answer of “no”. Squeezing every advantage point to reach the peak of performance isn’t something which needs to be worried about.

About the only thing I can win is the admiration of people I don’t know, don’t care about, and would probably admire me more if I did it without the Absolute Best. I mean, anyone can wreck a Tigrex . . . but how many people do it naked with a rusty sword?

I never said it was a bad thing, so stop replying to me assuming that I’m being negative just because I called it pay-to-win. Try again, or don’t reply to me. Either way, whatever. you have yet to prove yourself right in any way.

Eh, as I said, I’ve seen “pay to win” in spades. I’ve seen a lot, honestly, which makes me stop and look over at the people who label these things and go “really?”.

Now, on the topic of bag space being an issue and the Gem Store selling things? I’m mostly okay with it – 105 slots from filling up with 20 slot bags and a 25 slot backpack.

Make two of them salvage kits so you can salvage on the run, and do your salvages when you’re auto-attacking something. Sell your wares at any stop by basically liquidating anything (make a bag an Invisible/Safe bag and you can tuck important things there to keep em from selling on accident). Consistently hit your “Deposit Materials” button so you don’t fill up on the crafting materials. Need a bank? WvW Borderlands has you covered. Stash anything in there and if you get a full stack of materials in your storage, fish it out and start a new one.

Not sure how much of an issue it is to have the extra 60 slots to play around with and fill up when you are active about liquidating your loot on a regular basis.

Man your forgetting about all the items that are worth more then the salvage materials…… Not that I have seen many of those myself tbh

Edit
If your talking about rare/exotics you can tp those from anywere Chrispy.

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

Stats matter in WvW. Unless it somehow doesn’t, come challenge me in White gear while I eat you alive in Ascended gear with food/nourishment. I wait for your response.

we´r talking 100s against 100s here you not having nurishment or food wont affect that much, its not some 1v1 dueling arena. (spvp is for dueling and its that way -> and there you cant use either food/nurishment fyi )
Its how well your servers commanders organise agains the other 2 servers commanders really.
Edit
As you like saying Try again.

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

I dont know when this fight about food/nursihment not being needed in WvW turned into white vs ascended gear tbh maybe you should read what the argument was about a second time. Try again

Food gives you stats. You said food isn’t going to help you win, therefore, you said stats don’t matter. Lets take it a step further if that’s what you really think. Maybe you should read the argument a second time.

….
….
It goes without saying.

Chrispy.5641:

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

Well if you mean “tactics” as in “able to drop a few arrow carts” . . .

Linken.6345:

Man your forgetting about all the items that are worth more then the salvage materials…… Not that I have seen many of those myself tbh

Edit
If your talking about rare/exotics you can tp those from anywere Chrispy.

Supposedly certain Dire/Berserker stat combination items are. But I haven’t seen a reason not to salvage/vendor them due to TP fees.

As for rares? Salvage em. The ecto is often more valuable.

Exotics? Tough call but I tuck em away to look at later. I don’t see all that many.

Chrispy.5641:

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

Yeah so you have to play the game for a week to get enough gold to buy an exotic set. Big woop. Stats matter but its not pay to win because there is no cash shop limitation or huge amount of gold between geared players.

You want to see pay to win even in what many consider a “free” game? Look at Archeage. Imagine if you had two ascended geared players going at each other in sPvP (yes, competetive arena)… except one of them has consumables running at 100g/hour, insta heal pots for 10K hp every 9s, pots doubling every stat and on top of that has a legendary weapon that can instakill people with its special skill. And of course its a player driven economy, ie throw all decency out the window and sell stuff bought in the cashshop for tons and tons of gold, driving the gear race even further into the abyss.

GW2 is a freaking joy in comparison

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

Stats matter in WvW. Unless it somehow doesn’t, come challenge me in White gear while I eat you alive in Ascended gear with food/nourishment. I wait for your response.

we´r talking 100s against 100s here you not having nurishment or food wont affect that much, its not some 1v1 dueling arena. (spvp is for dueling and its that way -> and there you cant use either food/nurishment fyi )
Its how well your servers commanders organise agains the other 2 servers commanders really.
Edit
As you like saying Try again.

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

I dont know when this fight about food/nursihment not being needed in WvW turned into white vs ascended gear tbh maybe you should read what the argument was about a second time. Try again

Food gives you stats. You said food isn’t going to help you win, therefore, you said stats don’t matter. Lets take it a step further if that’s what you really think. Maybe you should read the argument a second time.

….
….
It goes without saying.

Yes food/nurishment give you so little stat boost that it aint going to help you win, I never said you should be pratikly naked against fully geared players.
Stop putting words in my mouth man and read what was said again.
And to get back on topic what items are worth more to vendor trash then you gain from salvaging, Im quite curious. Since they take up all avaliable bag space you have that is.

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

Stats matter in WvW. Unless it somehow doesn’t, come challenge me in White gear while I eat you alive in Ascended gear with food/nourishment. I wait for your response.

we´r talking 100s against 100s here you not having nurishment or food wont affect that much, its not some 1v1 dueling arena. (spvp is for dueling and its that way -> and there you cant use either food/nurishment fyi )
Its how well your servers commanders organise agains the other 2 servers commanders really.
Edit
As you like saying Try again.

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

I dont know when this fight about food/nursihment not being needed in WvW turned into white vs ascended gear tbh maybe you should read what the argument was about a second time. Try again

Food gives you stats. You said food isn’t going to help you win, therefore, you said stats don’t matter. Lets take it a step further if that’s what you really think. Maybe you should read the argument a second time.

….
….
It goes without saying.

Yes food/nurishment give you so little stat boost that it aint going to help you win, I never said you should be pratikly naked against fully geared players.
Stop putting words in my mouth man and read what was said again.
And what items are worth more to vendor trash then you gain from salvaging, Im quite curious.

Therefore stats don’t matter to you. if any amount of stats give you an advantage (exotic gear over white gear) then any amount of stats gives you an advantage, no matter the source. It doesn’t matter how small the stat boost is.

Like in the comparison to Destiny I made earlier. Milliseconds matter and so does the tiniest advantage you get when getting gold. In this game, the tiniest amount of stats matter too, especially when two equally skilled players are trying to kill each other. An advantage is an advantage. Its funny that you think they don’t.

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Linken.6345:

Chrispy.5641:

Crossaber.8934:

mystic salvage kit is your friend. We gain hundred of mystic stone for free. If your loot is filled faster than your mystic salvage kit usage, that means you are gathering a lot of loot and probably have enough gold to buy enough mystic stone for more mystic kit.

does nothing for the fact that salvaging many items gives you less value than the item itself, meaning there is still an advantage to having a larger inventory. Try again.

Dawdler.8521:

Except that you dont win. Its pay for looks and pay for conveniance.

Anyone in a stock ugly looking mismatched stock exotic set can still own your 4000 gold worth of skinned veteran ascended player in PvE, WvW and especially PvP. Even if you look at the worst case scenario which is food, it barely even cost anything, skill and build is more important in any given scenario.

If you call the above pay to win you have no idea what pay to win even means.

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. You apparently have no idea how to not take words literally in a world where words are never taken literally anyways. Try again.

You think food/nurishment make you win in WvW man you must be in a pretty low tier WvW server

Stats matter in WvW. Unless it somehow doesn’t, come challenge me in White gear while I eat you alive in Ascended gear with food/nourishment. I wait for your response.

we´r talking 100s against 100s here you not having nurishment or food wont affect that much, its not some 1v1 dueling arena. (spvp is for dueling and its that way -> and there you cant use either food/nurishment fyi )
Its how well your servers commanders organise agains the other 2 servers commanders really.
Edit
As you like saying Try again.

Yeah, a whole zerg with white armor against a whole team with Exotic/ascended armor and food, who, because of their gear, have 75% more armor and stats(from gear) than the other team does. I’d like to see that and watch the white team prove that superior tactics will help them win. Should be hilarious.

Stats matter in WvW. So, yeah, you said it yourself. Try again.

I dont know when this fight about food/nursihment not being needed in WvW turned into white vs ascended gear tbh maybe you should read what the argument was about a second time. Try again

Food gives you stats. You said food isn’t going to help you win, therefore, you said stats don’t matter. Lets take it a step further if that’s what you really think. Maybe you should read the argument a second time.

….
….
It goes without saying.

Yes food/nurishment give you so little stat boost that it aint going to help you win, I never said you should be pratikly naked against fully geared players.
Stop putting words in my mouth man and read what was said again.
And what items are worth more to vendor trash then you gain from salvaging, Im quite curious.

Therefore stats don’t matter to you. if any amount of stats give you an advantage (exotic gear over white gear) then any amount of stats gives you an advantage, no matter the source. It doesn’t matter how small the stat boost is.

Like in the comparison to Destiny I made earlier. Milliseconds matter and so does the tiniest advantage you get when getting gold. In this game, the tiniest amount of stats matter too, especially when two equally skilled players are trying to kill each other. An advantage is an advantage. Its funny that you think they don’t.

Were is this 1vs1 mode in gw2 you keep speaking about?
Secondly still trying to get you to say what items are worth more not salvaging mate?

Since players obviously have trubble cleaning their bags as these said items clog up all the space.
This is not a fps coop game so please stop comparing it to destiny.

Another thread full of crybabies expecting to get everything in an MMO with just paying the box price. Wake up. That’s not how MMOs work. Get over it or quit playing. We don’t care either way.

dietzero.3514:

Cormac.3871:

If you are power farmer it should only take you a couple of weeks to get the gold for an extra bag slot. If you are not a power farmer then the extra bag slot merely allows you to a bit lazier.

It should also be noted that the Silverwastes is very easy on bag space thanks to most of the loot being in containers, so the idea that this is some sort of cynical pay to win scheme is even more absurd.

Convenience items like this being in the gem store where a lot of players are encouraged to occasionally put in less than they would for a sub. fee is a much better system that the “lucky dip” boxes where they encourage a small percentage of “whales” with poor impulse control to buy an absurd number of gems.

Not against the gem store leeching money from people with more money than sense, but space should never have been a gemstore item. Even though it was fine when the game launched (when I bought everything), it is ridiculously cost prohibitive now and needs to be changed.

‘Hey new player! Save for a month and you can get a bag slot!’

Yeah, so awesome…

I am against the gemstore leeching a large amount of money off a small number of players rather than relying on a small amount of money off a large number of players because of what it does to game developers’ behaviour. I would rather ANet concentrate on keeping a broad section of the community happy, rather than a small vocal minority.

Cormac.3871:

dietzero.3514:

Cormac.3871:

If you are power farmer it should only take you a couple of weeks to get the gold for an extra bag slot. If you are not a power farmer then the extra bag slot merely allows you to a bit lazier.

It should also be noted that the Silverwastes is very easy on bag space thanks to most of the loot being in containers, so the idea that this is some sort of cynical pay to win scheme is even more absurd.

Convenience items like this being in the gem store where a lot of players are encouraged to occasionally put in less than they would for a sub. fee is a much better system that the “lucky dip” boxes where they encourage a small percentage of “whales” with poor impulse control to buy an absurd number of gems.

Not against the gem store leeching money from people with more money than sense, but space should never have been a gemstore item. Even though it was fine when the game launched (when I bought everything), it is ridiculously cost prohibitive now and needs to be changed.

‘Hey new player! Save for a month and you can get a bag slot!’

Yeah, so awesome…

I am against the gemstore leeching a large amount of money off a small number of players rather than relying on a small amount of money off a large number of players because of what it does to game developers’ behaviour. I would rather ANet concentrate on keeping a broad section of the community happy, rather than a small vocal minority.

And thats exactly what they are doing small trickle of money from alot of people on completely optional stuffs

Chrispy.5641:

Behellagh.1468:

So. Stop at nearest NPC vendor. Sell Junk. Salvage all unwanted salvagable items. Send mats to collection. If you don’t want to salvage the sell those unwanted items on the TP, no need to even visit a TP location. Now it’s only a problem if you want to keep all those items, for some reason. Other than ascended mats which are account bound, what do you need to keep for a rainy day? Skins go into the wardrobe now. Maybe BLSKs and a handful of GS items you get from the login rewards. I ran over a year with the original 30 bank slots and none of my characters have added bag slots.

I guess I’m doing something wrong.

No, you’re doing it exactly right. Your problem is the assumption that if the advantage is small enough, it no longer exists, and also failing to admit that. That is also the problem of the guy who replied to you.

Man, you guys would have fun playing Destiny, where all the weapons’ kill times are balanced to within milliseconds of each other, well, except for the part where those milliseconds count. Same as in this game when it comes to making lots of gold and making lots of gold fast.

I never said it was a bad thing, so stop replying to me assuming that I’m being negative just because I called it pay-to-win. Try again, or don’t reply to me. Either way, whatever. you have yet to prove yourself right in any way.

Ashen.2907:

1) Some pretty wild assumptions in your numbers.

2) The best looking skins cost no money to get. in fact they cannot be purchased with either gems or gold.

1. If it takes 10 minutes of hard event running to fill your inventory, it will take twice as long to fill an inventory twice that size. The actual length of time it takes to fully fill your inventory is irrelevant (so is the gold amount) and its sad that that’s what your clinging to. Even if it took 3 days to fill my inventory, the numbers show that the person with a larger inventory will still have a small advantage. No wild assumption there. Try again.

2. The best looking skins to YOU cost no money to get. For me, last I checked, a Mjolnir costs a hell of a lot to get. Try again.

1) and it still doesnt mean that you win anything.

2) exactly my point. It is subjective to the individual and therefore not a win or lose condition.

Finally there is nothing available in game for real money that cannot be attained through play. By definition if one can have it without paying then it isnt pay to win.

dietzero.3514:

That is pay to win.

what did you “win” with extra bank slots? I have 3 bank slots and all of my characters get by with no extra bag space and only 10 to 15 slot bags. I have 10 level 80s, I do have more than one type of gear, but I also carry heck of a lot of salvage kits and I don’t have anything in my bank that I don’t need. What are you stockpiling? And what have you won that I haven’t?

At the same time if I bought character slots is that pay to win? What did I win over you there? How do I now have a great advantage over you? Please tell me.

If you want to not pay for convenience, then please play subscription based games. Because if you haven’t noticed MMOs need income to have their servers up and if you don’t like paying for things you might as well pay to access the content on a monthly basis to begin with.

Can anyone remember when the extra storage/inventory slots were for sale last time? I have been waiting for a long time :< Ended up buying a second account for my hoarding needs because it was cheaper than buying a storage tab!

FrouFrou.4958:

Can anyone remember when the extra storage/inventory slots were for sale last time? I have been waiting for a long time :< Ended up buying a second account for my hoarding needs because it was cheaper than buying a storage tab!

Storage was on sale in the fall. Inventory not sure if it was also in the fall but it was on sale last spring.

Alright, so lets say that bag and bank-space starts costing gold instead of gems:

What should ArenaNet add to the store in order to counter the losses from no longer selling bank and bag space?

lordkrall.7241:

Alright, so lets say that bag and bank-space starts costing gold instead of gems:

What should ArenaNet add to the store in order to counter the losses from no longer selling bank and bag space?

You’re trying to reason with people who wanted everything free, remember?

lordkrall.7241:

Alright, so lets say that bag and bank-space starts costing gold instead of gems:

What should ArenaNet add to the store in order to counter the losses from no longer selling bank and bag space?

Tengu tonics.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

lordkrall.7241:

Alright, so lets say that bag and bank-space starts costing gold instead of gems:

What should ArenaNet add to the store in order to counter the losses from no longer selling bank and bag space?

Tengu tonics.

Combat tonic that lasts longer than five minutes without an hour cool down may be interested.

Seems like a smart move to make critical enhancements real money purchases. WAI.

Tom Gore.4035:

lordkrall.7241:

Alright, so lets say that bag and bank-space starts costing gold instead of gems:

What should ArenaNet add to the store in order to counter the losses from no longer selling bank and bag space?

You’re trying to reason with people who wanted everything free, remember?

Not only people wanted everything for free, also people that consider buying expensive skin with credit card is a “win”.

Crossaber.8934:

Tom Gore.4035:

lordkrall.7241:

Alright, so lets say that bag and bank-space starts costing gold instead of gems:

What should ArenaNet add to the store in order to counter the losses from no longer selling bank and bag space?

You’re trying to reason with people who wanted everything free, remember?

Not only people wanted everything for free, also people that consider buying expensive skin with credit card is a “win”.

Yeah.

Personally, I find GW2’s gemstore and gem purchases incredibly fairly priced, most of them anyway. The game certainly doesn’t push me to purchase anything from the gem store and it sure as heck doesn’t require it as some here seem to put it.

But then again, I don’t have a problem spending 10-20€ every now and then towards a hobby I like. I don’t really understand who anyone would. They are bound to spend that money into something else that’s completely optional, so it’s just a matter of choice.

Sometimes I think ANet shouldn’t have put in the gold to gems option. It seems to make some people feel entitled to free stuff.

Are there even any non subscription based MMOs that give away free bank and inventory slots? If there are MMOs that give away free bank slots, I would bet the people are paying a monthly subscription fee. It’s the subscription fee that allows those MMOs to give away stuff. It’s not reasonable to expect a game without a subscription fee to have the same features. One way or another, they have to have income.

Chrispy.5641:

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. Try again. Seriously, this is hilarious. Keep giving reasons that aren’t actually reasons, or tackle to issue head on!

Think of it like a race where everyone has the same car. The car costs $1000. Person A scrimped and saved and bought the $1000 car, cleaned out his account. Person B was given $5000 from his uncle to buy the car, but only needed $1000, so has $4000 left over in his account. Now they race, the exact same car. Explain how person B has an advantage in this race.

You can’t.

By your logic person B “wins” simply because he has more money. When in reality they both have the exact same performance and cross the finish line at the same time, which is the specific measure of winning in the context we are discussing. Having more money is irrelevant in this particular race between two identical cars.

Food in WvW is easy enough to supply yourself, especially if you play competitive WvW. Just because someone can buy gems to also supply themselves with food, doesn’t give them any additional advantage if the people they are competing against also have the same exact food. Does that make sense? Boy I hope this makes sense to you.

Keeping with the race example, the only advantage anyone would have in this race would be person B over, let’s say, person C who is standing on the sidelines not even competing. By your logic, person B wins because he has a car and person C does not. Technically that would be true because person C does in fact not have a car and if he wanted to compete in the race, would lose since he would be running on foot, but now I have strayed from the context of competitive WvW, thus negating the argument.

I can tell that you will hold onto your P2W perspective until the bitter end. But all your argument really boils down to is that someone who buys gems to convert to gold, will have some kind of advantage over someone somewhere at sometime, thus it is P2W. When in reality, all the gold in the game won’t give you an advantage in actual competitive WvW, competitive PvP, or competitive PvE (if there was such a thing).

Draknar.5748:

Chrispy.5641:

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. Try again. Seriously, this is hilarious. Keep giving reasons that aren’t actually reasons, or tackle to issue head on!

Think of it like a race where everyone has the same car. The car costs $1000. Person A scrimped and saved and bought the $1000 car, cleaned out his account. Person B was given $5000 from his uncle to buy the car, but only needed $1000, so has $4000 left over in his account. Now they race, the exact same car. Explain how person B has an advantage in this race.

You can’t.

By your logic person B “wins” simply because he has more money. When in reality they both have the exact same performance and cross the finish line at the same time, which is the specific measure of winning in the context we are discussing. Having more money is irrelevant in this particular race between two identical cars.

Food in WvW is easy enough to supply yourself, especially if you play competitive WvW. Just because someone can buy gems to also supply themselves with food, doesn’t give them any additional advantage if the people they are competing against also have the same exact food. Does that make sense? Boy I hope this makes sense to you.

Keeping with the race example, the only advantage anyone would have in this race would be person B over, let’s say, person C who is standing on the sidelines not even competing. By your logic, person B wins because he has a car and person C does not. Technically that would be true because person C does in fact not have a car and if he wanted to compete in the race, would lose since he would be running on foot, but now I have strayed from the context of competitive WvW, thus negating the argument.

I can tell that you will hold onto your P2W perspective until the bitter end. But all your argument really boils down to is that someone who buys gems to convert to gold, will have some kind of advantage over someone somewhere at sometime, thus it is P2W. When in reality, all the gold in the game won’t give you an advantage in actual competitive WvW, competitive PvP, or competitive PvE (if there was such a thing).

According to your car racing theory, I suppose A have to keep working in order to earn enough money to buy the car, what did he do for work? Yes, racing with a very low end car, saving a bit and bit, by terms of money and experience.

So I believe A should be the one with much more experience than B, with the same tier of hardware, A will be the winner. Thats how “play to win” works…

Do you think that the show Hoarders would do an episode about digital hoarding?

@OP: Your issue stems from the fact that you are looking at the gold cost of a gem item. The gem price has remained constant, because that is the INTENDED method of acquisition. ArenaNet has GRACIOUSLY decided to let you also spend your time (gold) to acquire gem items, based on the ratio that your time bears to the time others spend acquiring gem items. If you feel that this ratio is no longer beneficial, it is because you are not contributing enough time to the game, not because the item is too expensive. Others simply want those things MORE than you do, and are willing to put in the time to get those things for time rather than real world money (which, again, is the INTENDED way to get it).

This is a classic case of “looking a gift horse in the mouth”. You’ve managed to find a way to complain about something nice that someone has given you.

Shame, shame, shame.
[insert scolding finger smiley face here]

More QQ about Anet giving players choice. Love it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chrispy.5641:

No, you’re doing it exactly right. Your problem is the assumption that if the advantage is small enough, it no longer exists, and also failing to admit that. That is also the problem of the guy who replied to you.

Man, you guys would have fun playing Destiny, where all the weapons’ kill times are balanced to within milliseconds of each other, well, except for the part where those milliseconds count. Same as in this game when it comes to making lots of gold and making lots of gold fast.

Yeah, but let’s stop right here and you can tell me how having an apparent infinite supply of Gold (and nothing else) helps me “win” things like WvW. Or sPvP reward track items. Or Luminescent skins.

I can be sitting on a pile of gold big enough to make Evon Gnashblade jealous and . . . I win what exactly?

Tale Destiny, and I have tried it but it was so not my cup of tea . . . FPS games just can’t be entertaining to me anymore . . . but assume I go fight Crota, Son of Oryx at the end of the raid. Does it matter if I am not set up for complete advantage, so long as I’m actively not trying to die and managing to do the steps needed to be done (kill swordbearer, protect guy with sword, drop Crota with damage, and kill Oversoul when it shows up)? Do I really need to have the bleeding edge?

Experience, and experienced players, have led me to the answer of “no”. Squeezing every advantage point to reach the peak of performance isn’t something which needs to be worried about.

About the only thing I can win is the admiration of people I don’t know, don’t care about, and would probably admire me more if I did it without the Absolute Best. I mean, anyone can wreck a Tigrex . . . but how many people do it naked with a rusty sword?

I never said it was a bad thing, so stop replying to me assuming that I’m being negative just because I called it pay-to-win. Try again, or don’t reply to me. Either way, whatever. you have yet to prove yourself right in any way.

Eh, as I said, I’ve seen “pay to win” in spades. I’ve seen a lot, honestly, which makes me stop and look over at the people who label these things and go “really?”.

Now, on the topic of bag space being an issue and the Gem Store selling things? I’m mostly okay with it – 105 slots from filling up with 20 slot bags and a 25 slot backpack.

Make two of them salvage kits so you can salvage on the run, and do your salvages when you’re auto-attacking something. Sell your wares at any stop by basically liquidating anything (make a bag an Invisible/Safe bag and you can tuck important things there to keep em from selling on accident). Consistently hit your “Deposit Materials” button so you don’t fill up on the crafting materials. Need a bank? WvW Borderlands has you covered. Stash anything in there and if you get a full stack of materials in your storage, fish it out and start a new one.

Not sure how much of an issue it is to have the extra 60 slots to play around with and fill up when you are active about liquidating your loot on a regular basis.

tons of gold is great advantage in WvW, and it was intended to be.
With infinite gold, you can probably get a full map of people playing on your dime.
You can have as much HQ seige as you want
you can outfit all of your soldiers in ascended
you can maintain non stop food buff trays at every castle.

Bringing up spvp, is a bit pointless as it is the only facet of the game designed not to give any advantages at all.

but yes, gold is in the game, so that players can trade in game value, by having infinite gold, you can get everything of value that players can trade. Some things of value actually are advantageous.

just look at another thread where some player was like he just hit 80, went back to lower level areas, and still got owned.
he would be a lot less likely to get owned if he had Pink rarity gear on every slot, food buffs, and top of the line sigils/infusions/runes
heck if you ever did key farming the comparison of newb power to twinked power is tremendous, even within level range.

Draknar.5748:

Chrispy.5641:

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. Try again. Seriously, this is hilarious. Keep giving reasons that aren’t actually reasons, or tackle to issue head on!

Think of it like a race where everyone has the same car. The car costs $1000. Person A scrimped and saved and bought the $1000 car, cleaned out his account. Person B was given $5000 from his uncle to buy the car, but only needed $1000, so has $4000 left over in his account. Now they race, the exact same car. Explain how person B has an advantage in this race.

You can’t.

By your logic person B “wins” simply because he has more money. When in reality they both have the exact same performance and cross the finish line at the same time, which is the specific measure of winning in the context we are discussing. Having more money is irrelevant in this particular race between two identical cars.

Food in WvW is easy enough to supply yourself, especially if you play competitive WvW. Just because someone can buy gems to also supply themselves with food, doesn’t give them any additional advantage if the people they are competing against also have the same exact food. Does that make sense? Boy I hope this makes sense to you.

Keeping with the race example, the only advantage anyone would have in this race would be person B over, let’s say, person C who is standing on the sidelines not even competing. By your logic, person B wins because he has a car and person C does not. Technically that would be true because person C does in fact not have a car and if he wanted to compete in the race, would lose since he would be running on foot, but now I have strayed from the context of competitive WvW, thus negating the argument.

Person A scamped up and saved his money to buy car A. It probably took a few months. Person B has car A immediately, but the problem with your example, is assuming that person B is buying that crappy 1000 dollar car A. They got five thousand dollars and will surely buy the more expensive car B, which is faster, has better handling, etc, meaning they will win more often in encounters than person A driving crappy car A.

By the time Person A bought crappy car A, person B would have had the same amount of time practicing racing anyways, and with a better car, meaning Person B has the advantage. Therefore, Person B will win in a majority of the races.

Draknar.5748:

I can tell that you will hold onto your P2W perspective until the bitter end. But all your argument really boils down to is that someone who buys gems to convert to gold, will have some kind of advantage over someone somewhere at sometime, thus it is P2W. When in reality, all the gold in the game won’t give you an advantage in actual competitive WvW, competitive PvP, or competitive PvE (if there was such a thing).

Or you could read the thread before the white knights showed up and see that, no, I don’t actually have a P2W perspective at all. I specifically made the comparison that this entire system is “Pay to equality”, not necessarily pay to win, where the newer players are specifically at a disadvantage compared to veteran, who enjoyed buying inventory space at a vastly cheaper (in-game) rate 2.5 years ago compared to now, even if the real world rate was the same. It originally costed hundreds of silver to max. out your inventory space instead of hundreds of gold. Instead of taking a few weeks to max. everything out, it now takes several months.

The new player buying everything to be equal with the veterans will then have an advantage over the other relatively new players who don’t buy anything, which is mostly what this whole argument has been about, not necessarily about paying to win over everyone, but the ones who aren’t yet at the level on the plateau with everyone. And it definitely hasn’t been about paying some money, and getting a magical “YOU WIN!” graphic thrown in their face (Which is apparently what it takes for anyone to technically win anything today and can’t be extended to include advantages in a game where no one can actually win because there is no technical end)

Unfortunately, White knights being white knights, and being blind when they defend a game, lost sight of that. Its okay, I decided to run with the argument anyways to see where it goes, and so far, I have not been disappointed by the mostly hilarious responses. Keep going, please!

Chrispy.5641:

Draknar.5748:

Chrispy.5641:

In a game where technically no one wins (which is all MMO’s), winning is being a higher level, having more gold, or looking cooler than everyone else. If I can pay for a way to get more gold (which gives me more frequent access to food/nourishments which will help you win in WvW), I’m paying to win. Try again. Seriously, this is hilarious. Keep giving reasons that aren’t actually reasons, or tackle to issue head on!

Think of it like a race where everyone has the same car. The car costs $1000. Person A scrimped and saved and bought the $1000 car, cleaned out his account. Person B was given $5000 from his uncle to buy the car, but only needed $1000, so has $4000 left over in his account. Now they race, the exact same car. Explain how person B has an advantage in this race.

You can’t.

By your logic person B “wins” simply because he has more money. When in reality they both have the exact same performance and cross the finish line at the same time, which is the specific measure of winning in the context we are discussing. Having more money is irrelevant in this particular race between two identical cars.

Food in WvW is easy enough to supply yourself, especially if you play competitive WvW. Just because someone can buy gems to also supply themselves with food, doesn’t give them any additional advantage if the people they are competing against also have the same exact food. Does that make sense? Boy I hope this makes sense to you.

Keeping with the race example, the only advantage anyone would have in this race would be person B over, let’s say, person C who is standing on the sidelines not even competing. By your logic, person B wins because he has a car and person C does not. Technically that would be true because person C does in fact not have a car and if he wanted to compete in the race, would lose since he would be running on foot, but now I have strayed from the context of competitive WvW, thus negating the argument.

Person A scamped up and saved his money to buy car A. It probably took a few months. Person B has car A immediately, but the problem with your example, is assuming that person B is buying that crappy 1000 dollar car A. They got five thousand dollars and will surely buy the more expensive car B, which is faster, has better handling, etc, meaning they will win more often in encounters than person A driving crappy car A.

By the time Person A bought crappy car A, person B would have had the same amount of time practicing racing anyways, and with a better car, meaning Person B has the advantage. Therefore, Person B will win in a majority of the races.

Draknar.5748:

I can tell that you will hold onto your P2W perspective until the bitter end. But all your argument really boils down to is that someone who buys gems to convert to gold, will have some kind of advantage over someone somewhere at sometime, thus it is P2W. When in reality, all the gold in the game won’t give you an advantage in actual competitive WvW, competitive PvP, or competitive PvE (if there was such a thing).

Or you could read the thread before the white knights showed up and see that, no, I don’t actually have a P2W perspective at all. I specifically made the comparison that this entire system is “Pay to equality”, not necessarily pay to win,!

Actually you described it as pay to win twice before your first use of the phrase pay for equality and all three came after others commented that it was t pay to win. Nice try at backpedalling though.

Chrispy

Snip

Think of it like a race where everyone has the same car. The car costs $1000. Person A scrimped and saved and bought the $1000 car, cleaned out his account. Person B was given $5000 from his uncle to buy the car, but only needed $1000, so has $4000 left over in his account. Now they race, the exact same car. Explain how person B has an advantage in this race.

You can’t.

By your logic person B “wins” simply because he has more money. When in reality they both have the exact same performance and cross the finish line at the same time, which is the specific measure of winning in the context we are discussing. Having more money is irrelevant in this particular race between two identical cars.

Food in WvW is easy enough to supply yourself, especially if you play competitive WvW. Just because someone can buy gems to also supply themselves with food, doesn’t give them any additional advantage if the people they are competing against also have the same exact food. Does that make sense? Boy I hope this makes sense to you.

Keeping with the race example, the only advantage anyone would have in this race would be person B over, let’s say, person C who is standing on the sidelines not even competing. By your logic, person B wins because he has a car and person C does not. Technically that would be true because person C does in fact not have a car and if he wanted to compete in the race, would lose since he would be running on foot, but now I have strayed from the context of competitive WvW, thus negating the argument.
[/quote]

Person A scamped up and saved his money to buy car A. It probably took a few months. Person B has car A immediately, but the problem with your example, is assuming that person B is buying that crappy 1000 dollar car A. They got five thousand dollars and will surely buy the more expensive car B, which is faster, has better handling, etc, meaning they will win more often in encounters than person A driving crappy car A.

By the time Person A bought crappy car A, person B would have had the same amount of time practicing racing anyways, and with a better car, meaning Person B has the advantage. Therefore, Person B will win in a majority of the races.

No in his example person B would be disqualified for driving a car that wasent legal for the race so person A would win. Try again.

Still waiting on all those items that are worth to hold on so you can vendor them instead of salvage or tping them on the spot tho.
Are you even working on that list?

I like how the goal posts are moving. Wasn’t this about Bank and Bag slots?

Crossaber.8934:

According to your car racing theory, I suppose A have to keep working in order to earn enough money to buy the car, what did he do for work? Yes, racing with a very low end car, saving a bit and bit, by terms of money and experience.

So I believe A should be the one with much more experience than B, with the same tier of hardware, A will be the winner. Thats how “play to win” works…

If person A was racing to make his money to buy the car needed for the race against person B, then you could argue that person A could be a better driver than B and might win just from proper shiftwork.

I wasn’t getting that specific haha. My main point was the rich guy wouldn’t have an advantage because you are limited by what car you could race. Much like you could only have one food active. Whether person A has 10 pieces of food or person B has 1000, they both can only eat one at a time. So what good do the rest do at the time.

Behellagh.1468:

I like how the goal posts are moving. Wasn’t this about Bank and Bag slots?

Yea been trying to stear chrispy back on track afew times now but he keep ignoring it.

phys.7689:

just look at another thread where some player was like he just hit 80, went back to lower level areas, and still got owned

that’s a learn to play issue. You can auto-attack mobs in starting areas in whites. Starting areas are designed to be as braindead as it can be. Sure, he could be slightly “better” in pinks, but he would still need to learn to play. No gear in the world would save him unless he does. And then gear progression ends as well.

Not to mention that how in the frig will you buy guild commedations, laurels and un-timegate crafting with gold? If you had infinite gold you still would take like 2 months getting your pink gear.

Very interesting discussion.

Just want to make a few points.

Concerning the “race” analogy.
If both driver A and driver B are limited to paying $1000 dollars for their car, and that car must meet certain specifications, than both cars are going to be the same, and not offer a statisical advantage over the other. Then the race will be determined by skill and skill alone.

Concerning bag space and “pay to win”
While having extra bag space certainly is nice to have, it offers ZERO advantage in competative play. (i.e. WvW, PvP). Does it mean that player A (with an extra bag slot) can potentially earn more gold over player B (with no extra bag slot)? Theoretically yes, because they have to spend less time at a vendor. However, player A will have to spend more time at a vendor than player B. Why? Because they have more stuff. The only difference is when both players need to visit a vendor. For example. Both players run AC P3. At the end of the run, player B needs to go to the vendor to clear their inventory before running AC P1. Player A can just go straight into P1. So while player B is clearing their inventory, player A is 1/2 of the way through P1. Player B jumps into P1. Both finish the run. Now both players have to visit a vendor to clear their inventory. Player B is able to finish quicker (as they have less stuff to sell) and is able to jump into CoF P1 while player A is still clearing his inventory. And so on and so forth.

In the end, did player A make more money than player B? No, because they both were able to do the same amount of dungeon runs. Did player A need to visit the vendor after each run? No. But they did spend twice as long at the vendor than player B.

Does that mean it’s pay to win? Not in the slightest by any definition. The only advantage player A had over player B is when they needed to clear out their inventory.

Finally, concerning using gold to by bag/bank slots.

I don’t feel that using purely gold to by a convience item is the right way to go. If you feel you must have them upgrades, then you can spend that gold and convert to gems. “But with the gem exchange, it’s expensive.” True, but then you need to ask yourself is it worth spending the time in-game for a convienience item? If yes, than great!! Work hard and get the upgrade! If not, then don’t worry about it, you are not going to be limited in what you can or cannot do in game without it. Heck you can still solo Arah all the paths without having any inventory bags if you wanted to. (you’ll miss out on all the loot if you did, but it’s still possible.)