Guild Wars 2

kimeekat.2548:

Every time I see a topic like this, it reminds me of the studies that showed women who talk for 30% to 50% of a discussion are perceived as completely dominating the conversation. This is one game out of the plethora of games out there that doesn’t act like the traditional 13-25 year old straight white male is its only audience and makes an effort to show traditionally underrepresented groups in positions of power. I promise, we can handle seeing the traditional script of 1 woman to 4 men flipped. It’s the same reason why Sailor Moon and Tyler Perry are successful.

I’m wary of threads like these because they are usually couched as arguments for equality when really what ends up argued is that minorities do not deserve to have the spotlight. Because that’s “pandering”. But when we pander to the straight males all the time it’s not pandering just… the natural state of things. Asking for a completely even 50-50 representation of genders is just another way of giving them a quota they have to fill without thinking of the plot and context of the game itself and industry as a whole.

I want to shower a thousand hugs and thank yous upon Anet for not accepting that as an acceptable cookie cutter template for storytelling.

1) Destiny’s Edge had Logan and Jennah as their main couple. Their romantic relationship causes a huge schism in the group and though the relationship is pre-game (Ghosts of Ascalon), its effects are arguably more plot-important what with people dying because of it and that ripping the entire group apart. There is a gay sylvari couple in a sylvari personal story arc, as mentioned upthread. I’m also partial to the Canach/Kasmeer dynamic but I realize that’s not canon. There’s also Elli and Zott although we all know how tragically that ends. Cries for days. We know Rox lost her mate in an accident and when we met Braham he was pining after Ottilia. But I’m sure there are a thousand excuses about why those magically don’t count as heterosexual representation. “They don’t have enough screen time” “They’re one sided” so are most relationships in game besides Marjory and Kasmeer. Even Caithe and Faolain are one sided now, enemies (at least on Caithe’s end) since the start of the personal story and only romantic in flashbacks. Good, imo. I want the relationships to be secondary fuel to the A-plot, which they are. I don’t want to play a soap opera mmo.

2) I fixed your list for you. Since you counted Anise, Jennah, the Pale Tree and Kiel, I’ve added Laranthir, Magnus, Aerin, Master of Peace, Phlunt and Faren. Hero Tron also has a male VA but I don’t want to get wrapped up in arguing gendered robotics. The ratio is more like 13 to 12 and less like 13 to 6. We’ll skip the two male bosses now immortalized as end bosses in Fractals, the male bosses in TA Aetherpath, the even split of Mai Trin and Horrik, the male family angst of the Mad King and Prince Thorn etc, I suppose.

Females: Eir, Zojja, Caithe, Taimi, Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox, Anise, Jennah, Pale Tree, Faolain, Scarlet, Kiel.

Males: Rytlock, Logan, Trahearn, Laranthir, Braham, Canach, Evon, Magnus, Aerin, Master of Peace, Phlunt, Faren.

3) I consider Rox and Braham to have a bromance going on, though Rox identifies female. It seems pretty clearly platonic. Not to mention Laranthir and Trahearne’s actual bromance going on in the Pact. There’s also the entirety of the Halloween plot being a father and son story. Also.. Rytlock and Logan? Tending to their delicate feelings and bromance is most of the primary plot for the personal story. I also think you’ll be getting more character development from Braham in HoT, considering his mother is MIA and from the preview of the first instance we’ve seen in the betas, we know that has lit a huge fire under his kitten . He’s also becoming more responsible as a sort of care taker to Taimi.

I’d prefer they focus on making armor of the same set more on par between males and females and offering those choices to Asura and Charr, if we really want to have a practical discussion about gender equality within the game and within the context of the industry at large. There’s nothing progressive about coding butterflies (on carapace armor) and bikini armor for girls when boys deserve those things, too. But I suspect that for some reason this is immune to the “balance” discussion because of reasons.

I’m so sorry, but because you make logical sense and refute most of the arguments in this thread with said logic you’re going to get completely ignored and they’re not even going to bother reading it let alone trying to reply to it.

My condolences.

Why does it matter? Its a game, make of it what you will.

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

I’m so sorry, but because you make logical sense and refute most of the arguments in this thread with said logic you’re going to get completely ignored and they’re not even going to bother reading it let alone trying to reply to it.

My condolences.

lol This person has, in fact, gotten responses.

Uhhh… back to the OP’s subject…

First, I have to give kimeekat.2548 kudos for a big ‘well said’!

As far as the OP goes, I think it is disingenuous for you to cherry pick some NPC names off the top of your head and yell ‘bias’! Just naming a few prominent characters is not proof that the game has some hidden agenda for female-power or something.

I’m really surprised no one brought up Tybalt from Whispers Order or Forgal from Vigil. True, the Priory story has Sieran but I see those NPCs balanced by Almorra founding the Vigil, Gixx leading the Priory, and Riel leading the Whispers. I believe some digging would show a similar balance of genders, races, professions, and even relationships in other areas of the game as well. I think the Order stories are simply a good example of this.

narwhalsbend.7059:

Sun.2036:

The balance between male and female characters is not there. We have strong female characters, and that’s great, as well as a good support for the LGBTQ community, but how about the male characters? I would love to see some development, a bit of bromance and maybe even a gay couple amongst the different races.

Females: Eir, Zojja, Caithe, Taimi, Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox, Anise, Jenna, Pale Tree, Faolain, Scarlet and Keil.

Males: Rytlock, Logan, Trahearn, Braham, Canach and Evon.

These are the key characters we have now. I may have missed some but yeah…

There’s a male/male couple in the Sylvari personal story.

It’s never revisited though as they don’t appear again.

People seem to be ignoring that the game’s biggest romance is Rytlock/Logan.

(Also Jennah/Anise is a thing.)

Why would you think Rytlock and Logan are anything more than friends?

Or are we joking here?

Celtic Lady.3729:

Why would you think Rytlock and Logan are anything more than friends?

Or are we joking here?

Why would you think that they aren’t? They have an extremely tempestuous, on-again-off-again “friendship”. They’re both obsessed with the other. Rytlock is insanely jealous of the queen’s hold on Logan, and Logan’s personality can largely be summed up as “how can I get Rytlock to like me again”.

I’m not saying they realize it themselves, but I see their attraction to each other as very romance-based. It sure as heck fits the term “bromance” at the very least.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

People seem to be ignoring that the game’s biggest romance is Rytlock/Logan.

(Also Jennah/Anise is a thing.)

The games biggest romance is actually Me and Trehearne, but Anet has to complete their partnership with Bioware to allows us to seduce our allies before they finally add it to LS. Bioware will also include 1000 new microtranactions in every single crevice of the game along with it so hopefully the nude scenes are extra HQ AAA.

narwhalsbend.7059:

There’s a male/male couple in the Sylvari personal story.

Whom you never hear or see again afterwards, or never even know about if you don’t pick that personal story. Meanwhile, there are two female homosexual couples who are very important to the story, and one widowed lesbian Charr in Diessa Plateau whom you can talk to to learn her story.

I’m not one to shrilly demand that Anet create an important gay male npc, but a little love would be nice…

Brutalistik.6473:

Rox and Braham shipper here lol. Nevertheless who here believes lesbians characters are easy to implement in stories or games than gays?

raises hand I certainly think that, because it always seems like any game that does include same-sex relationships plays it safe by only allowing lesbian relationships. ~.~

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

People seem to be ignoring that the game’s biggest romance is Rytlock/Logan.

(Also Jennah/Anise is a thing.)

I would applaud Anet if they actually had the balls to make Rytlock/Logan a thing, because it’s certainly more interesting than the eternal limbo that Logan and Jennah are stuck in.

(Much like Rytlock/Logan, Jennah/Anise is only a thing in people’s heads.)

Doggie.3184:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

People seem to be ignoring that the game’s biggest romance is Rytlock/Logan.

(Also Jennah/Anise is a thing.)

The games biggest romance is actually Me and Trehearne, but Anet has to complete their partnership with Bioware to allows us to seduce our allies before they finally add it to LS. Bioware will also include 1000 new microtranactions in every single crevice of the game along with it so hopefully the nude scenes are extra HQ AAA.

This won’t end well.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

They have an extremely tempestuous, on-again-off-again “friendship”. They’re both obsessed with the other. Rytlock is insanely jealous of the queen’s hold on Logan, and Logan’s personality can largely be summed up as “how can I get Rytlock to like me again”.

Wow. You have read a lot into this that simply isn’t there. Rytlock and Logan were friends until Logan chose to defend the queen rather than stay with his group, so a member that everyone loved was killed. This is the source of their fighting; there’s no on-again/off-again thing about it. Obsession is an exaggeration. Rytlock isn’t jealous of Jenna; he’s angry that Logan’s choice resulted in their failing their mission and Snaff dying. Not the same emotions at all.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

They have an extremely tempestuous, on-again-off-again “friendship”. They’re both obsessed with the other. Rytlock is insanely jealous of the queen’s hold on Logan, and Logan’s personality can largely be summed up as “how can I get Rytlock to like me again”.

Wow. You have read a lot into this that simply isn’t there. Rytlock and Logan were friends until Logan chose to defend the queen rather than stay with his group, so a member that everyone loved was killed. This is the source of their fighting; there’s no on-again/off-again thing about it. Obsession is an exaggeration. Rytlock isn’t jealous of Jenna; he’s angry that Logan’s choice resulted in their failing their mission and Snaff dying. Not the same emotions at all.

That’s your interpretation and yours alone. Others have a different view of the situation.

Interpretations aside, point is, there’s no actual evidence that Rytlock and Logan are anything other than friends that had a falling out due to a tragedy and then worked it out and forgave one another and became friends again.

Same way there’s no actual evidence in the stories that Frodo and Sam were anything other than friends and companions on a mission together. You can read anything into it that you like, but I’m referring to actual actions and words that would characterize a romance as opposed to friendship.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Interpretations aside, point is, there’s no actual evidence that Rytlock and Logan are anything other than friends

And no evidence they aren’t.

How about less romance and more things and developement related to the actual plot and, you know, the war that we are having against the dragon(s).

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

And no evidence they aren’t.

There’s actually a lot of evidence that they aren’t, but I think we’re a touch off-topic here, so I won’t spell it all out.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

And no evidence they aren’t.

There’s actually a lot of evidence that they aren’t, but I think we’re a touch off-topic here, so I won’t spell it all out.

Since any “evidence” you might present is clearly animated by your foregone conclusion that it can’t be what you don’t want it to be, that’s certainly the best choice.

shrugs It’s not really about what I want or anyone else wants or interpretations/assumptions but about what there’s actual evidence for. That’s what I’m saying.

You sound angry. lol No offense intended. This is just one of those silly, fun discussions about fiction.

Shezu Tsukai.8291:

As said earlier most of the same sex relationships seem forced and not really integral to the story line.

In every other game and most novels out there… that is basically true of all the hetero relationships.

The issue here is not what kind of relationship, but that game and ‘Steampunk’ authors don’t write good romance…

As for your comment about ‘social engineering’… that is basically all of those other games that promote the ‘straight white male’ hero. With everyone else a sidekick or worse…

Your children are not growing up in that world – even if one or more of them are Caucasian boys. Better to have their fiction represent the world they will live in; which is a diverse, global place – and one that is basically over the whole sexuality bias issue. I just wish folks could catch up embracing racial/ethnic diversity as much as society has recently ‘gotten over sexuality’.

kimeekat.2548:

Every time I see a topic like this, it reminds me of the studies that showed women who talk for 30% to 50% of a discussion are perceived as completely dominating the conversation.

As long as you don’t say how many people took part in that discussion someone talking for 30-50% is dominating it.

This is one game out of the plethora of games out there that doesn’t act like the traditional 13-25 year old straight white male is its only audience and makes an effort to show traditionally underrepresented groups in positions of power.

Sure, that’s why there’s no non skimpy outfit for females and no skimpy outfit for males as this game “doesn’t cater the usual male 13-25 audience” ( are you serious?)

I kinda agree, game needs more fleshed out male main characters.
It’s become expected that when there’s a female character, she has to have a fleshed out and interesting persona whereas for males it’s easy to just make them another bland mook.

Canach is a step in the right direction though, he’s great.

Edit: Logan and Rytlock are just bros. Which kind of seems odd how he’s ascalonian descent and he’s a freaking blood legion tribune.

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

kimeekat.2548:

Every time I see a topic like this, it reminds me of the studies that showed women who talk for 30% to 50% of a discussion are perceived as completely dominating the conversation. This is one game out of the plethora of games out there that doesn’t act like the traditional 13-25 year old straight white male is its only audience and makes an effort to show traditionally underrepresented groups in positions of power. I promise, we can handle seeing the traditional script of 1 woman to 4 men flipped. It’s the same reason why Sailor Moon and Tyler Perry are successful.

I’m wary of threads like these because they are usually couched as arguments for equality when really what ends up argued is that minorities do not deserve to have the spotlight. Because that’s “pandering”. But when we pander to the straight males all the time it’s not pandering just… the natural state of things.

I’m so sorry, but because you make logical sense and refute most of the arguments in this thread with said logic you’re going to get completely ignored and they’re not even going to bother reading it let alone trying to reply to it.

My condolences.

I not only read kimeekat’s post. I +1’d it. And yes: as far as I could tell, its right on all points.

The genders actually are balanced. But people perceive this wrongly because of their own ways of seeing the world. And claims of wanting balance are really being used as a proxy for a desire to not lose privilege.

Celtic Lady.3729:

shrugs It’s not really about what I want or anyone else wants or interpretations/assumptions but about what there’s actual evidence for. That’s what I’m saying.

You sound angry. lol No offense intended. This is just one of those silly, fun discussions about fiction.

Perhaps it’s simply that I have no patience for people who make their personal biases plain, yet declare their opinions unassailable fact and condescendingly dismiss all other views as misguided. Especially when they suggest they can offer compelling “evidence” but then, of course, don’t actually do so.

Call me ignorant, but I’ve only seen this issue raised on the forums. Should anet address this issue (and I can be wrong on this) based on what I think is a vocal minority of the forums?

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

They have an extremely tempestuous, on-again-off-again “friendship”. They’re both obsessed with the other. Rytlock is insanely jealous of the queen’s hold on Logan, and Logan’s personality can largely be summed up as “how can I get Rytlock to like me again”.

Wow. You have read a lot into this that simply isn’t there. Rytlock and Logan were friends until Logan chose to defend the queen rather than stay with his group, so a member that everyone loved was killed. This is the source of their fighting; there’s no on-again/off-again thing about it. Obsession is an exaggeration. Rytlock isn’t jealous of Jenna; he’s angry that Logan’s choice resulted in their failing their mission and Snaff dying. Not the same emotions at all.

That’s your interpretation and yours alone. Others have a different view of the situation.

Its not his alone. Logan deserted his comrades in battle. Jenna should have had him executed… Even though he was obeying her, he did so by fleeing his comrades.

Any anger Rytlock feels towards him is more than justified.

Logan is basically why our characters have to go off and fight some dragons, because he is a deserter that doomed the world.

After reading the novels, I pretty much expected this game to launch with Logan as a dungeon boss we had to kill.

Rytlock forgives him the same way Churchill got on with Stalin: There wasn’t any friendship there, there was necessity.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Call me ignorant, but I’ve only seen this issue raised on the forums. Should anet address this issue (and I can be wrong on this) based on what I think is a vocal minority of the forums?

Really? I know no one who isn’t annoyed by this force fed relationship.
If I had a choice none of the characters would have a relationship- it’s plain annoying and none of them is that liekable or has got that much character/story that one would wish him/her to “find the right one” anyway.

Kichwas.7152:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

They have an extremely tempestuous, on-again-off-again “friendship”. They’re both obsessed with the other. Rytlock is insanely jealous of the queen’s hold on Logan, and Logan’s personality can largely be summed up as “how can I get Rytlock to like me again”.

Wow. You have read a lot into this that simply isn’t there. Rytlock and Logan were friends until Logan chose to defend the queen rather than stay with his group, so a member that everyone loved was killed. This is the source of their fighting; there’s no on-again/off-again thing about it. Obsession is an exaggeration. Rytlock isn’t jealous of Jenna; he’s angry that Logan’s choice resulted in their failing their mission and Snaff dying. Not the same emotions at all.

That’s your interpretation and yours alone. Others have a different view of the situation.

Its not his alone. Logan deserted his comrades in battle. Jenna should have had him executed… Even though he was obeying her, he did so by fleeing his comrades.

Any anger Rytlock feels towards him is more than justified.

Logan is basically why our characters have to go off and fight some dragons, because he is a deserter that doomed the world.

After reading the novels, I pretty much expected this game to launch with Logan as a dungeon boss we had to kill.

Rytlock forgives him the same way Churchill got on with Stalin: There wasn’t any friendship there, there was necessity.

That’s a fine and valid viewpoint. I myself don’t like Logan as a person either, however I may perceive his relationships. Still, that is also only your interpretation.

Jana.6831:

bigbobpataki.4796:

Call me ignorant, but I’ve only seen this issue raised on the forums. Should anet address this issue (and I can be wrong on this) based on what I think is a vocal minority of the forums?

Really? I know no one who isn’t annoyed by this force fed relationship.
If I had a choice none of the characters would have a relationship- it’s plain annoying and none of them is that liekable or has got that much character/story that one would wish him/her to “find the right one” anyway.

Whats exactly force fed? What would you do if you were in the developer’s shoes? You cant necessarily say that you’d have “no relationship” because you’d get blasted by people who’d want one.

Is this about Jory x Kas? If so I don’t see the problem, it didn’t seem forced to me at all. I it did seem off how open they were when intimate, considering the player character is often stood right there overhearing everything. You’d think they’d value some privacy.

Jana.6831:

bigbobpataki.4796:

Call me ignorant, but I’ve only seen this issue raised on the forums. Should anet address this issue (and I can be wrong on this) based on what I think is a vocal minority of the forums?

Really? I know no one who isn’t annoyed by this force fed relationship.
If I had a choice none of the characters would have a relationship- it’s plain annoying and none of them is that liekable or has got that much character/story that one would wish him/her to “find the right one” anyway.

If any relationship that can be done right as of now would be Rox and Braham. For the fact those two been traveling partners for quite sometime especially after all those major events. I can’t say much for the other girls Kasmeer and Majory. Their relationship felt forced in my opinion similar to Korra and Asami. I probably didn’t catch on to the subtle hints if any were dropped prior to the breach of Scarlet’s ship. However they weren’t good hints if I’ve missed it. I’m cool with Kasmeer and Majory relationship, but I would’ve liked to see more development than BAM! KISS! oh my god she likes Majory replicating the Snow White scene.

Good story telling with decent character development makes an awesome game or something to remember for a long time.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Whats exactly force fed? What would you do if you were in the developer’s shoes? You cant necessarily say that you’d have “no relationship” because you’d get blasted by people who’d want one.

Force fed: You can’t escape that story, it’s everywhere in LS2 and that’s plain annoying – there must be something else than this relationship, right? Yeah there is; an underlying relationship of a cat and a man.
And of course you can, these guys are basically strangers to my character and no stranger would tell me their whole life while we’re about to save the world- or if they did so, I would find them more than just a bit weird and rather stayed away from them.

Edit: Why not being smart about it and let people guess instead of shoving it in their face? Like the Braham Roxx story- it’s a bit weird as well but at least Ikind of have the choice to further think about it.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Especially when they suggest they can offer compelling “evidence” but then, of course, don’t actually do so.

lol I did, actually, in my original explanation.

Jana.6831:

bigbobpataki.4796:

Whats exactly force fed? What would you do if you were in the developer’s shoes? You cant necessarily say that you’d have “no relationship” because you’d get blasted by people who’d want one.

Force fed: You can’t escape that story, it’s everywhere in LS2 and that’s plain annoying – there must be something else than this relationship, right? Yeah there is; an underlying relationship of a cat and a man.
And of course you can, these guys are basically strangers to my character and no stranger would tell me their whole life while we’re about to save the world- or if they did so, I would find them more than just a bit weird and rather stayed away from them.

Edit: Why not being smart about it and let people guess instead of shoving it in their face? Like the Braham Roxx story- it’s a bit weird as well but at least Ikind of have the choice to further think about it.

Lets suppose for a minute that your opinion isn’t shared by the majority of players. How would you possibly insure that every player would be happy with what they got out of the personal story?

Even then, its Anet’s game. They can write the personal story however they want to. If you do not like that, nobody is forcing you to log in/p2p the personal story. Its their choice to write the personal story however they please.

Brutalistik.6473:

If any relationship that can be done right as of now would be Rox and Braham.

Yeah, but I have my doubts about the feasibility of a romance between two races that are so different. Charr/Norn – I mean, charr have all those teeth; a kiss with a Norn would be really awkward, if even possible. Charr have all that fur vs. smooth skin. And, um, not sure if they could actually, you know, really get it on comfortably, again due to all the differences in physique. Also, is there any evidence Norn consider Charr to be physically or sexually attractive?

Friendship is obviously doable, but anything romantic? I have my doubts.

cocowoushi.7150:

Here is a list of a million games where male lead characters outweighs the female:
//insert nearly every game on the market

That isn’t an argument for anything, that’s known as an appeal to the majority. Well maybe not an ‘appeal’ but the logical is just as unsound.

Jerus.4350:

Nike.2631:

Unless I missed something the Sylvari are all asexual drones. They do not reproduce. Therefore any Sylvari ‘couples’ are simply bonds of affection and about as sexualized as rubbing a pair of 2×4s together (eww, splinters ).

How did you know my fetish?

Sorry to disappoint everyone but Sylvari do have genitals, they’re just sterile.

Zackie.8923:

stronk female? my human female can barely lift her greatsword.

Should have rolled a Norn, those ladies are ripped.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Caithe just has terribad taste in partners.

Well it could be explained by saying that Caithe was young and naive, but the problem is that they never give enough in-game evidence of this. Well dialog is time consuming to produce and for the most part distracts from the gameplay, so it’s difficult.

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

I’m so sorry, but because you make logical sense and refute most of the arguments in this thread with said logic you’re going to get completely ignored and they’re not even going to bother reading it let alone trying to reply to it.

My condolences.

Should probably read it then, but the tumbleriteism was strong in that post… too many trigger words for me.

Ameepa.6793:

How about less romance and more things and developement related to the actual plot and, you know, the war that we are having against the dragon(s).

Well that sounds like a simply novel idea, maybe ANet should get on it?

bigbobpataki.4796:

Lets suppose for a minute that your opinion isn’t shared by the majority of players. How would you possibly insure that every player would be happy with what they got out of the personal story?

Since everybody I know feels the same about that part of the story I can’t really pretend I’m in the minority and what does it matter anyway? You don’t need relationships anywhere. No matter whether hetero or gay, these guys are basically your friends and let’s be honest, they lack character/story to really be anything like friends, they’re just generated characters. I get that there are people who think that the lore is important but they make up their own stories as the original is lacking so much -and I’m fine with that- you don’t need a game to teach you things about life.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Even then, its Anet’s game. They can write the personal story however they want to. If you do not like that, nobody is forcing you to log in/p2p the personal story. Its their choice to write the personal story however they please.

No, I don’t play the personal story anyway – but I can voice my opinion which I just did. Sorry that this bothers you.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Especially when they suggest they can offer compelling “evidence” but then, of course, don’t actually do so.

lol I did, actually, in my original explanation.

Oh, really? Yet you stated more recently that you weren’t going to “spell it all out”, naturally implying that you had not already done so. If you felt you had, you would’ve pointed it out at that time. Yet you declined on the grounds of preserving the thread’s topical integrity.

Which is it? Did you present concrete “evidence” originally, or refrain from doing so? You can’t have it both ways, I’m afraid.

Either way, you’ve said nothing that shows the Rytlock/Logan relationship was written with the intention of excluding even the possibility of romantic interpretation – and can say nothing to show it. That’s not evidence you possess, because only the writers themselves could speak to their own intentions.

I agree with OP. Except of Caithe and Faolain any other relationship, especially Kasjory, is forced and out of place for me.

I’ve already elaborated about terrible execution of story in this game in my thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-don-t-like-DE-2-0/page/1

I don’t find many people to agree with here. I think that while there are minorities in the world and I don’t have any need to punish them for being different, the modern world came to the point where the most persecuted are 25-35 white males for not being a representant of any minority. This is sad and GW2 is a great example of weird times we’re living now.

Many.8419:

I agree with OP. Except of Caithe and Faolain any other relationship, especially Kasjory, is forced and out of place for me.

I’ve already elaborated about terrible execution of story in this game in my thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-don-t-like-DE-2-0/

I don’t find many people to agree with here. I think that while there are minorities in the world and I don’t have any need to punish them for being different, the modern world came to the point where the most persecuted are 25-35 white males for not being a representant of any minority. This is sad and GW2 is a great example of weird times we’re living now.

wut

The most persecuted in the US are the minorities. Same with most countries. White males are the most privileged people in the world.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Oh, really? Yet you stated more recently that you weren’t going to “spell it all out”, naturally implying that you had not already done so.

I meant, spell it all out more than I already did. I thought that was what I was implying.

And yeah, the actual evidence (dialogue and actions as written and presented by the writers in the story) is much more supportive of the examples I gave regarding their friendship than it is of romance.

Celtic Lady.3729:

And yeah, the actual evidence (dialogue and actions as written and presented by the writers in the story) is much more supportive of the examples I gave regarding their friendship than it is of romance.

In your opinion.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Brutalistik.6473:

If any relationship that can be done right as of now would be Rox and Braham.

Yeah, but I have my doubts about the feasibility of a romance between two races that are so different. Charr/Norn – I mean, charr have all those teeth; a kiss with a Norn would be really awkward, if even possible. Charr have all that fur vs. smooth skin. And, um, not sure if they could actually, you know, really get it on comfortably, again due to all the differences in physique. Also, is there any evidence Norn consider Charr to be physically or sexually attractive?

Friendship is obviously doable, but anything romantic? I have my doubts.

The only thing I can counter with that statement is “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” Braham and Rox could possibly be only attractive to each other. Friendships sometimes or mostly do blossom into an relationship.

It might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but look how Disney did Beauty and the Beast. Despite that beast started off as human, but even with the curse Belle still accepted him. Later on in the movie we witness the friendship between the two blossoming into a relationship. The audience still accepted the concept cause we know Disney’s theme and we went with the flow. It’s make believe anyway plus it’s a fantasy world. The same can be done to Rox and Braham eventually if the writers decides to take that approach. I’m all for it because it can be done right than forced.

Jana.6831:

Since everybody I know feels the same about that part of the story I can’t really pretend I’m in the minority and what does it matter anyway? You don’t need relationships anywhere. No matter whether hetero or gay, these guys are basically your friends and let’s be honest, they lack character/story to really be anything like friends, they’re just generated characters. I get that there are people who think that the lore is important but they make up their own stories as the original is lacking so much -and I’m fine with that- you don’t need a game to teach you things about life.

No, I don’t play the personal story anyway – but I can voice my opinion which I just did. Sorry that this bothers you.

Voicing your opinion doesn’t bother me, I won’t lose any sleep because someone on a forum disagrees with me.

I think we’re closer opinion wise than we think we are. The personal story sucks, decisions do not matter past “choose x, get y for 3 chapters”. Should this focus more on how the PS characters interact with themselves? Nah, I’d like to see more of how they interact with the ever changing world that they’re designed to interact with. I really want them to become part of your characters lore. But in regards to gender/romance/etc, does it really matter/should it be a focus of anet’s? No, give me a better overall story.

Brutalistik.6473:

It might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but look how Disney did Beauty and the Beast. Despite that beast started off as human, but even with the curse Belle still accepted him. Later on in the movie we witness the friendship between the two blossoming into a relationship.

Okay, yeah, the Beauty and the Beast theme seems similar. I guess I was trying to view it in a more realistic light than a Disney cartoon, but we are talking fantasy here. Although, I always knew the Beast would become human again, which made their romance more realistic to me. I tend to think that concerns about “fitting” together, as it were, in a physical way, especially, would be an issue for anyone looking for a real relationship.

Tonn and Ceera are another straight relationship, as well as Doxxa and Kazz from the M.I.G Asura story.

Tybalt and Norgal from the Orders are male characters. Not to mention the upper echelons of the orders having a nice mix of male:female.

There is also the personal story from the Sylvari side, Gairwen and Evart, and also Tiachren and Ysvelta.

I am inclined to think that people are not noticing a lot because you are used to seeing hetero relationships in society and are zoning in on the unfamiliar same sex relationships in terms of same sex relationships vs hetero relationships.

Braham and Rox likely have a very close platonic relationship, almost brother and sister in arms forged by war and ‘rejection’ by their own respected races (at least how they probably see it). Similar to other games like Tifa and Barrett from FF7.

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

I’m so sorry, but because you make logical sense and refute most of the arguments in this thread with said logic you’re going to get completely ignored and they’re not even going to bother reading it let alone trying to reply to it.

My condolences.

The SJW-ish flavour put me off from reading most of it. It being an enormous wall of text also may have had something to do with it.

Fashion Mage.3712:

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

I’m so sorry, but because you make logical sense and refute most of the arguments in this thread with said logic you’re going to get completely ignored and they’re not even going to bother reading it let alone trying to reply to it.

My condolences.

The SJW-ish flavour put me off from reading most of it. It being an enormous wall of text also may have had something to do with it.

I don’t want to take sides here but wouldn’t it help your argument if you took the effort to respond to whoever you’re criticizing? A “wall of text” is honestly no excuse.

Boro.7359:

There’s also Logan/Jennah.

I don’t see how this is a relationship. I’ve never seen them interact romantically. Ever.

bigbobpataki.4796:

Fashion Mage.3712:

tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694:

I’m so sorry, but because you make logical sense and refute most of the arguments in this thread with said logic you’re going to get completely ignored and they’re not even going to bother reading it let alone trying to reply to it.

My condolences.

The SJW-ish flavour put me off from reading most of it. It being an enormous wall of text also may have had something to do with it.

I don’t want to take sides here but wouldn’t it help your argument if you took the effort to respond to whoever you’re criticizing? A “wall of text” is honestly no excuse.

I’m not arguing anything? I’m just stating why I didn’t read most of it.