Guild Wars 2

ilr.9675:

darkace.8925:

ilr.9675:

I find it weird that they’re talking about all these Condition changes…
…yet they somehow leave out PvE specifics where diversity & conditions are the weakest.

We’re getting a little ahead of ourselves here. True, they didn’t give PvE specifics; but these are just a preview, they didn’t give specifics about ANYTHING.

Okay then I mis-used the word Specifics… Entirety of this Blog was mostly PvP Generalities. Where’s the PvE generalities?

Balance patches and changes are generally due to PvP not PvE. simply because mobs don’t cry nerf/buff or quit over perceived imbalances.

Also because every class can, in every spec, complete all reasonable PvE content. Even though some classes may be stronger than others in PvE the non scaling, static nature of all content but fractals makes the need to buff or nerf classes generally secondary to PvP

Also Guild Wars 2 has deep roots in PvP, (from GW) and much of the game revolves around PvP especially after the story is complete.

Nature of the beast I’m afraid. But I doubt Anet has not taken PvE into account. Many of those changes (as some have pointed out) will effect PvE as well as PvP, you may have to extrapolate that information for yourself though.

Jemmi.6058:

Hmm, I think it will just mean that condition removal will be more important. It’s no different than any other condition really..

Weakness your ability to dodge is hindered
Bleeding punishes you for having flesh
Confusion punishes you for attacking

Torment punishes you for moving

In all situations, must use condition removal. Maybe we need to see it in action before we claim that it is breaking the basics of the game mechanics. Perhaps, instead, it will simply increase the variability on each fight and how one reacts.

You just listed how fundamentally different Torment is from the other conditions, and yet you cannot see how it’s different? Torment punishes you for moving. That’s actually worse than Confusion (which, I believe, should never proc if your opponent is activating a condition removal ability).

If ArenaNet puts something like Torment in the game, it should be used very sparingly, and not given to classes with good mobility.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Dragnela.6532:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sepreh.5924:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Discuss

As a person who plays the mesmer quite a bit, I can state that giving Thieves and Mesmers Torment is, generally, a bad idea!

These classes, along with the Elementalist, are very slippery and mobile classes, requiring opponents to be equally mobile to stand a chance of defeating them. Giving them access to a condition which punishes an opponent for pursuing (or running away from) these classes is entirely too much.

I’m sure the developers already know what I just stated, but I am uncertain if they have really played through the implications of this.

Torment can be used to punish an opponent for acting both offensively and defensively. It can be used to help pin down an opponent and help you escape from one.

Fundamentally, I have seen the ArenaNet developers try hard to push GW2 players in ways that force them to become better at the game. One of the most, and perhaps the single most, important aspect in PVP is learning how to move and position yourself well. Creating a condition that punishes movement of any kind seems counterproductive to that goal.

I think giving Necromancers access to Torment is an excellent idea, or for any class/build that is limited in mobility.

If Mesmers and Thieves get Torment, then basically ANet will have to balance Torment around the damage it does while a person moves. Doing anything otherwise would be pretty silly, and I think that would really marginalize the effectiveness of the DoT for classes like Necromancers.

Dont call the mesmer mobile -_-

Portal, Blink, Decoy, Prestige, Swap, Phase Retreat, Mass Invis and Temporal Curtain. The Mesmer is quite mobile in a fight.

I agree that Mesmers are highly mobile in a fight, but decoy, prestige, and Mass Invisibility are not mobility stills, they are stealth skills. If you are including stealth (which I don’t think you should) you should also include veil.

Anet seriously you buffing the OP classes mesmer and thief? are you playing your own game? ^^

juno.1840:

If this is the case, then I expect torment to also be difficult to time for effect. It will just be spammed whenever it’s available with little regard for skilled play (because the reward is not sufficient).

If that’s the case, then I’d argue it does not increase the complexity of the meta, nor raise the skillcap. If it does neither of those, it should not get added.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Jemmi.6058:

Hmm, I think it will just mean that condition removal will be more important. It’s no different than any other condition really..

Weakness your ability to dodge is hindered
Bleeding punishes you for having flesh
Confusion punishes you for attacking

Torment punishes you for moving

In all situations, must use condition removal. Maybe we need to see it in action before we claim that it is breaking the basics of the game mechanics. Perhaps, instead, it will simply increase the variability on each fight and how one reacts.

You just listed how fundamentally different Torment is from the other conditions, and yet you cannot see how it’s different? Torment punishes you for moving. That’s actually worse than Confusion (which, I believe, should never proc if your opponent is activating a condition removal ability).

If ArenaNet puts something like Torment in the game, it should be used very sparingly, and not given to classes with good mobility.

They are all fundamentally different.

as I said before, I don’t PvP so there is my bias, but I feel like people should wait and see how this pans out before crying foul.

Perhaps it will be dependent on speed moving, or length of time moving. Maybe if it is length of time all you need to do is move a few steps, stop for a millisecond, move a few steps etc.. That’d slow you down less than cripple.

Currently chill, cripple and immobilize will stop you from moving too, but they are unavoidable. In this instance, you could move and take damage, or sit still and not take damage. The choice is yours and it’s a trade off. This game needs more trade offs like that imo.

I personally like that they are adding a new condition which will change the way the game is played.

Virindiira.1025:

Anet seriously you buffing the OP classes mesmer and thief? are you playing your own game? ^^

Those are just examples of SOME things they are changing. They do say they are making changes to ALL professions traits and skills.

Giving torment to what are arguably the strongest dueling professions in the game is just so backwards that I don’t know where to begin and I say this as a full time necromancer. Mesmers and thieves were already a major pain in the kitten to catch and now it’s just completely out of the question. I would have much rather shared this condition with rangers and warriors.

Lokki.1092:

ilr.9675:

darkace.8925:

ilr.9675:

I find it weird that they’re talking about all these Condition changes…
…yet they somehow leave out PvE specifics where diversity & conditions are the weakest.

We’re getting a little ahead of ourselves here. True, they didn’t give PvE specifics; but these are just a preview, they didn’t give specifics about ANYTHING.

Okay then I mis-used the word Specifics… Entirety of this Blog was mostly PvP Generalities. Where’s the PvE generalities?

Balance patches and changes are generally due to PvP not PvE. simply because mobs don’t cry nerf/buff or quit over perceived imbalances.

Also because every class can, in every spec, complete all reasonable PvE content. Even though some classes may be stronger than others in PvE the non scaling, static nature of all content but fractals makes the need to buff or nerf classes generally secondary to PvP

Also Guild Wars 2 has deep roots in PvP, (from GW) and much of the game revolves around PvP especially after the story is complete.

Nature of the beast I’m afraid. But I doubt Anet has not taken PvE into account. Many of those changes (as some have pointed out) will effect PvE as well as PvP, you may have to extrapolate that information for yourself though.

You do realize , that you’re lecturing someone who read every single “State of the Game” ever posted, every month they were posted…. right? …And that eventually the complaining about this tangent went away when they started doing proper Developer Update write-ups… Yeah… this is WHY we go into specifics in the first place.

There’s no need to act like there’s only 2 kinds of players. Some of us understand both modes. (and yeah I’m laughing pretty hard at these ppl who think Mez/Thief were already god’s gift to PvP …they sound like every RA’er ever)

Seems like the weakness change just encourages more PVT ‘outlast while face-rolling’ zerg behaviour.

I agree with other comments, it seems very odd to give thieves and mesmers torment, ranger be a better choice, imo.

On the face of it, the new Torment condition is a dream come true for kiters.

Like Confusion punished people for using skills, Torment will punish people for running towards the enemy.

Predictions as to how long it will take them to nerf Torment, Confusion-style?

6/25 + t days, where t = ?

Kind of frustrated, even though I know it hasn’t came out yet, Us Warriors already have a HUGE problem with cripples chills and immob completely shutting us down. Kited to death, our 40 second cool down utility skill Bull Rush is completely shut down by some classes auto attack (Thief sword spams cripple). This new condition is going to punish us even further, with our lack of sustain and force us to stay in one place or take damage that we can’t sustain!? This is going to make Warriors completely Laughable.

I know it hasn’t been released yet, but from looking logically at the most difficult issue us warriors face (being kited, and all our movement skills, minus savage leap, being shut down by cripple chill and immob) and this looks to completely exacerbate the issue.

^did that guy just say he’s getting kited on a class that specializes in burst Rifle pressure?

Jemmi.6058:

They are all fundamentally different.

as I said before, I don’t PvP so there is my bias, but I feel like people should wait and see how this pans out before crying foul.

Experience with ArenaNet patches suggests otherwise.

Jemmi.6058:

Perhaps it will be dependent on speed moving, or length of time moving. Maybe if it is length of time all you need to do is move a few steps, stop for a millisecond, move a few steps etc.. That’d slow you down less than cripple.

It clearly does not do this, as it deals damage even if you are not moving, just less damage.

Jemmi.6058:

Currently chill, cripple and immobilize will stop you from moving too, but they are unavoidable. In this instance, you could move and take damage, or sit still and not take damage. The choice is yours and it’s a trade off. This game needs more trade offs like that imo.

I think you need to go back and re-read the description of Torment. It deals damage regardless of whether you are moving, so the trade-off is: stand still and take damage or move and take more.

However, you admittedly do not PvP, so you may not truly realize how important movement and positioning is to the PvP. It’s extremely important.

I don’t get the mesmer change. It’s already strong with confusion, so now, it’s a class that can punish you for using abilities and punish you for moving. I play a mesmer, I don’t see why it needs a buff. But, I guess there could be nerfs in there to offset.

I swear though, if Torment is tagged onto the shatter mechanic this is, IMHO, broken. It’s fine as it is.

More importantly to all of this though, is WHERE IS THE ACROSS-THE-GAME AOE REBALANCE.

AoE is getting wildly out of hand.

Torment should have been a condition for the slower classes, so the more mobile can’t kite. Not for thieves and mesmers that are already a PITAto catch.

Movement is a key part of actually playing this game, confusion like damage on movement is pretty kitten and has been in every game I ever seen it implemented.

This way you can drop a bunch of torment down, and then spam the ever present horde of Arrow Carts. Die if you move out, die if you stay, great for game play.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Giving torment to what are arguably the strongest dueling professions in the game is just so backwards that I don’t know where to begin and I say this as a full time necromancer. Mesmers and thieves were already a major pain in the kitten to catch and now it’s just completely out of the question. I would have much rather shared this condition with rangers and warriors.

I kind of agree with this post. As a person who plays a mesmer, I’d rather see warriors get this too.

Also, if the developers are actually reading this, can you tell us what boon “Well of Power” converts this condition into?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Jemmi.6058:

They are all fundamentally different.

as I said before, I don’t PvP so there is my bias, but I feel like people should wait and see how this pans out before crying foul.

Experience with ArenaNet patches suggests otherwise.

Jemmi.6058:

Perhaps it will be dependent on speed moving, or length of time moving. Maybe if it is length of time all you need to do is move a few steps, stop for a millisecond, move a few steps etc.. That’d slow you down less than cripple.

It clearly does not do this, as it deals damage even if you are not moving, just less damage.

Jemmi.6058:

Currently chill, cripple and immobilize will stop you from moving too, but they are unavoidable. In this instance, you could move and take damage, or sit still and not take damage. The choice is yours and it’s a trade off. This game needs more trade offs like that imo.

I think you need to go back and re-read the description of Torment. It deals damage regardless of whether you are moving, so the trade-off is: stand still and take damage or move and take more.

However, you admittedly do not PvP, so you may not truly realize how important movement and positioning is to the PvP. It’s extremely important.

My apologies, I did skim over the description quickly. I figured I’d learn the specifics when it actually launched and I could play around with it.

The main point is still there though, that the increased damage may be related to how long or fast you are moving.

Anyway, I am pretty sure any change to the game are going to make some people happy and others upset. Very few changes do only one or the other. This is one of the few changes that I have actually been excited about since launch.

Well, without knowing anything more about the condition or how it will affect gameplay, it sure does sound like epic garbage (especially given its class distribution). However, I’m willing to hold judgement until we actually see the thing in action for a week or two. I’m sure they’ve been testing the heck out of it, so it’s more than likely it isn’t nearly as stupid as it sounds right now.

Taking the news in stride for now.

I’m hoping Thieves get MH Pistol/Unload reworked. If you want to give thieves a good condition build, have MH pistol be a condition weapon rather than an ineffective halfway point between conditions and direct damage with terrible skills like Body Shot that just take up space.

And no , the Body Shot change in those leaked notes is not nearly enough.

ok we dont know the exact changes but….

stunbreaker everywhere YEA. so the wannabe warrior CC build will be useless against every enemy build are now. ….

the new op condi (every condi was op for short time xD)witch will kitten the good Players who use WASD was given to the classes who Need it like warrior. guard….. what ??? not them the thief and mesmer got it

ok necro+ i know why
mesmer+ yea its the mesmer Anet loves him so it must be the kittening OP class. not shatter will give you 20 condi stacks+ new condi. so you cant use skills and are not able to run away while this ore moad xD……..
thief why he ot this? are yea ist ne normal “assis” class so he must be one of the strongest tooo.

am i the only one who thinks that this conditions should give to the classes who are normally in melee fight or who dont have teleport+ stealth+ NPC who are fighting for them?

im happy to see PVP dieng more and more
we must pay for our costum Arenas while the pve Players are laughing abaout us because they only must buy skins when they want and no fraktal Servers or somethink like this.
balancing will be destroyed for the next weeks

Who the hell thought it was smart to give the two most OP classes in WvW (thieves are only OP due to how stealth is currently set up) a new way of being OP? Seriously, I would have given this to Engineers, Necros, Warriors, and Rangers, the 4 classes who could use a boost in WvW.

kerzain.4801:

…

However, I’m willing to hold judgement until we actually see the thing in action for a week or two. I’m sure they’ve been testing the heck out of it, so it’s more than likely it isn’t nearly as stupid as it sounds right now.

LOL do you know how much they actually test their balance patches?

So Thieves get torment..? Thieves, out of all the classes! How in the name of duck are guardians, warriors etc. supposed to ever catch them now?? This is such nullscript…

Anet, any plans to ever have a PTR for this stuff? With the utmost respect you can’t balance in a vacuum, and for all the testing you can do you’re hardly going to ever recreate the conditions of WvW fights. Maybe three PTR servers so WvW can be tested too with these major changes?

Sebulon.7683:

So Thieves get torment..? Thieves, out of all the classes! How in the name of duck are guardians, warriors etc. supposed to ever catch them now?? This is such nullscript…

QFT.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Who the hell thought it was smart to give the two most OP classes in WvW (thieves are only OP due to how stealth is currently set up) a new way of being OP? Seriously, I would have given this to Engineers, Necros, Warriors, and Rangers, the 4 classes who could use a boost in WvW.

Well, you’re only seeing one piece of the puzzle right now. There are other sweeping changes due, in addition to this new condition, so it’s not like it’s just being shoe-horned into current builds. We won’t know if Thief and Mesmer will continue to remain the most blatantly OP WvW classes until we all have a chance to put this new update to the test.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Who the hell thought it was smart to give the two most OP classes in WvW (thieves are only OP due to how stealth is currently set up) a new way of being OP? Seriously, I would have given this to Engineers, Necros, Warriors, and Rangers, the 4 classes who could use a boost in WvW.

You forgot about Guardians too…

shimmerless.4560:

ilr.9675:

^did that guy just say he’s getting kited on a class that specializes in burst Rifle pressure?

“Burst pressure” is a bizarre non-sequitur.

Don’t blame me, blame GW’s hybrid combat model.
It’s always been this way. In other rifle games you usually have to go find a med-kit after being sniped really hard :p … and just b/c it got nerfed 9 months ago doesn’ mean it’s never going to be viable again

Littlefeather.8623:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Who the hell thought it was smart to give the two most OP classes in WvW (thieves are only OP due to how stealth is currently set up) a new way of being OP? Seriously, I would have given this to Engineers, Necros, Warriors, and Rangers, the 4 classes who could use a boost in WvW.

You forgot about Guardians too…

To be honest, Guardians are pretty fine right now. At least from what I can tell.

And I now have seen the leaked updates found here: http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9pS

I retract my statement, this won’t be so bad. Thieves can only do it with skale venom (it replaces weakness), Mesmers can only do it with Scepter #2, and Necros can only do it with DS#5. So I’m now fine with this.

Rangers, prepare to see your veterinarian even more frequently for pet-corpse drop off.

Torment =http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees ?
Seems right for necros to get that, and assassins had something similar, iirc, as did rits.

Kronyx.2570:

Torment should have been a condition for the slower classes, so the more mobile can’t kite. Not for thieves and mesmers that are already a PITAto catch.

I honestly thought this was so obvious.

So much so, that without too deep of an inspection, I just assumed this was the case. It doesnt really make any sense, whatsoever, to me.

Thieves and mesmers dont really need help in running circles around their opponent, they already do it very, very well (even if they arent as OP as some make them out to be).

Like others have said though, maybe we just need to see it in play to make a real judgment of it. As it stands though, it just sounds bonkers to me.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Littlefeather.8623:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Who the hell thought it was smart to give the two most OP classes in WvW (thieves are only OP due to how stealth is currently set up) a new way of being OP? Seriously, I would have given this to Engineers, Necros, Warriors, and Rangers, the 4 classes who could use a boost in WvW.

You forgot about Guardians too…

To be honest, Guardians are pretty fine right now. At least from what I can tell.

And I now have seen the leaked updates found here: http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9pS

I retract my statement, this won’t be so bad. Thieves can only do it with skale venom (it replaces weakness), Mesmers can only do it with Scepter #2, and Necros can only do it with DS#5. So I’m now fine with this.

Guardians are not fine right now, I hate being kited down and not being able to do anything about it, Retalition is nice but doesnt last long at all.

The idea behind the new condition is interesting, and it’s fitting for necromancers, the ultimate conditions/command guys to have access to it. Giving it to mesmers is a bit of a wtf, but i can still sorta roll with it.

My issues with torment is that you’ve basically made necromancers incredibly strong in spvp and tpvp related to the nature of the only current game mode available : conquest ( which implies capture points). I don’t look forward to being welled, tormented and feared at the same time while fighting for a cap.

Giving thieves the new condition however is a MISTAKE. They already have the best disengage in the game ( stealth) , top tier movement, incredibly high burst on top of other goodies they got recently ( like i dunno, BOONSTEAL on basic wep skills perhaps?)…. and now you want to give them ANTIMOVEMENT as well ?

While i applaud the idea behind the weakness changes ( which goes hand in hand with your stated goal of reducing burst from the game) the main issue i have with this is that once again thieves will NOT be playing ball like the rest of us : they will STILL have the best, quickest burst in the game since backstab chains from from stealth will always be clean ( since stealth removes conditions for most thieves).

No mention if ridiculously overpowered petrez will be interruptable/stunnable ( stun/kd the pet to stop the super pet rez) which means that once again rangers cannot be killed underwater ( since you can’t stomp to prevent the petrez to finish)

While we’re at it, will thieves still be able to acrobat swipe underwater constantly for effective 100% evade for a minute? Has the “lose target on dodge” bug been REALLY taken out?

yeah, i’m kinda confused.. aren’t Eng & Ranger the classes that need the most tweaking & not Ele & Thief? I main Guardian so I’m not sure.. but..

Tuluum.9638:

Kronyx.2570:

Torment should have been a condition for the slower classes, so the more mobile can’t kite. Not for thieves and mesmers that are already a PITAto catch.

I honestly thought this was so obvious.

So much so, that without too deep of an inspection, I just assumed this was the case. It doesnt really make any sense, whatsoever, to me.

Thieves and mesmers dont really need help in running circles around their opponent, they already do it very, very well (even if they arent as OP as some make them out to be).

Like others have said though, maybe we just need to see it in play to make a real judgment of it. As it stands though, it just sounds bonkers to me.

Are you guys being serious right now? If you can’t run away from a Mesmer currently, you are so incredibly bad maybe you should just stick to PvE. Mesmers are good at running away because of chaos armor and stealth, both don’t help at all for chasing people down.
As far as thieves go, I’m pretty certain they’re going to have to sacrifice some of their mobility for access to Torment.

Some of this garbage on the thread shows how terrible some people really are at PvP and the game in general.

At the end of the day, there aren’t enough good builds. Hopefully this changes that.

@Osif;

I wasnt talking about “running away” or even overall map mobility.

I am talking about in-combat mobility. And yes, if you do not feel mobile in-combat on a mesmer, there is probably quite a bit you still have to learn.

I am talking about an actual fight here, not just one person running away, or the other running away.

And yes, I am quite serious when I say I am waiting to see it in action before I make any final statements on it.

juno.1840:

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Two of the game’s strongest duelist gets exclusive access to the new condition , punishing those who make a subtle attempt at movement whilst they’re insanely mobile and potent in trickery.

#Keyboardturnersrejoice!

Yeah agree. I think warriors should have gotten torment instead of thieves and mesmers. Arguably maybe guardians but they are already in a good place. Thieves have no issue getting to a mobile class and jumping them from behind so I’m not sure why torment was added to their arsenal.

Because all the Devs play thieves so they will be OP no matter what and never nerfed.

Ok i will bring my worries/thoughts about these info we got there:

-First condi removal for warriors on burst, It is good, but not that good if it is going to be a trait, worse if it is a major trait, why?, because we are now going to be forced to trait that, because one of the great weaknes of warriors is condition damage, everyone its going to feel forced to get that trait, and if it is in the last traits its going to be worse. This would be better if all burst abilities had this remove condition utility for everyone and no need to trait for them.

-I hope one of those traits complete removed are the minor traits on the tactics line, they are a waste of trait points and bring no us,e no value to any build in the game, warriors rol its not to sit and revive people, they are just really bad designed.

-My thoughts on the new condition as a warrior/melee class:

Warriors are going to die so fast to the new necro condition, we have very little oportunities to stay in close with range classes, they ususally snare us or slow us down wich that means we are going to keep walking to them, which means more damage taken from that condition, this is going to be bad you will see.

And this torment condition comes to thieves too?, cant be true, they dont need buffs they need nerfs and severe ones, first of all to stealth mechanics they need to be reworked, then nerf their burst damage or do something so they can no longer one shot people 2 shot or 3 shot if you have thougness from stealth, and no more reset the fight when im going to die. They get this and now they are going to be more OP, this is not fair.

This is for now the thoughts i have, if i have more i will post it on another post.

Atrophied.8725:

Torment =http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees ?
Seems right for necros to get that, and assassins had something similar, iirc, as did rits.

Well yeah… Mesmers and Guardians directly inhereted most of the things that Rits did best. IE: SpiritSpam + Destruct/Rapture, Quickening, channeling, etc.. I’m not sure where random conditions came from but I’ve already said we don’t need the RNG picking winners and losers in sPvP TYVM :\ …it’s bad enough it picks them in PvE/crafting

DarksunG.9537:

yeah, i’m kinda confused.. aren’t Eng & Ranger the classes that need the most tweaking & not Ele & Thief? I main Guardian so I’m not sure.. but..

in PvE, most definitely…
But apparently this balance team doesn’t think it needs skill splits anymore… even though only a fraction of the people PvP’ing are actually doing it in sPvP

LilMcGinley.3890:

Jericho.4521:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Penguin.5197:

I don’t understand why thieves would get torment too. They’re already the fastest class and hard to catch as it is, no it seems you would get punished too if you try and chase after them.

Of course we don’t know how exactly the new condition is gonna work yet or how powerful it is but that is just my initial assumption.

I raced a warrior on my thief while farming coffers, beat me to almost every one, I even used Inf strike and shadowstep to try and win. GS/Sword+warhorn is more mobile than a thief sadly. Maybe I’m just bad but they are almost on par with each other depending on the situation.

Well one of the biggest advantages with thief is Z-axis teleports, of which warriors have none. So given flat terrain, yes a warrior might beat you in a straight line but that’s about it.

True, but there are very few places (in WvW) where a thief can port up.

I’m waiting to see how the implement this condition. I think a lot of people are overthinking this, not to mention, ANet picked these classes for a reason we can’t clearly see.

I’m sorry but I just don’t see how that is possible (for a warrior to beat a thief). Short bow alone covers more than anything they can do. 25% speed buff from signet/swift on dodge etc.

osif.8673:

Tuluum.9638:

Kronyx.2570:

Torment should have been a condition for the slower classes, so the more mobile can’t kite. Not for thieves and mesmers that are already a PITAto catch.

I honestly thought this was so obvious.

So much so, that without too deep of an inspection, I just assumed this was the case. It doesnt really make any sense, whatsoever, to me.

Thieves and mesmers dont really need help in running circles around their opponent, they already do it very, very well (even if they arent as OP as some make them out to be).

Like others have said though, maybe we just need to see it in play to make a real judgment of it. As it stands though, it just sounds bonkers to me.

Are you guys being serious right now? If you can’t run away from a Mesmer currently, you are so incredibly bad maybe you should just stick to PvE. Mesmers are good at running away because of chaos armor and stealth, both don’t help at all for chasing people down.
As far as thieves go, I’m pretty certain they’re going to have to sacrifice some of their mobility for access to Torment.

I am going to have to say if you let people get away you are a bad Mesmer lol.

All this hate for mesmers receiving torment. Do any of you guys complaining even play a condition mesmer? Same question to the “I’m a mesmer and this is a bad idea” crowd. Because I do, and it’s a welcome addition. Doesn’t make up for the other issues we currently have with the role (bounce mechanic changes being the most recent), but it’s nice to see something.!

Also, here’s hoping they add it to the scepter!!

You think you got issues Play a Eng theres a ton of issues there and asusual nothing here for them be nice if they could at least get a reliable speed boost in either trait or sig like all the other classes have.

MrInfinit.1864:

All this hate for mesmers receiving torment. Do any of you guys complaining even play a condition mesmer? Same question to the “I’m a mesmer and this is a bad idea” crowd. Because I do, and it’s a welcome addition. Doesn’t make up for the other issues we currently have with the role (bounce mechanic changes being the most recent), but it’s nice to see something.!

Also, here’s hoping they add it to the scepter!!

Issues with Mesmers? Are you kidding?

Anyways I don’t think people that concerned with the addition of torment to mesmers. The main issues is giving it to thieves.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Jericho.4521:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Penguin.5197:

I don’t understand why thieves would get torment too. They’re already the fastest class and hard to catch as it is, no it seems you would get punished too if you try and chase after them.

Of course we don’t know how exactly the new condition is gonna work yet or how powerful it is but that is just my initial assumption.

I raced a warrior on my thief while farming coffers, beat me to almost every one, I even used Inf strike and shadowstep to try and win. GS/Sword+warhorn is more mobile than a thief sadly. Maybe I’m just bad but they are almost on par with each other depending on the situation.

Well one of the biggest advantages with thief is Z-axis teleports, of which warriors have none. So given flat terrain, yes a warrior might beat you in a straight line but that’s about it.

True, but there are very few places (in WvW) where a thief can port up.

I’m waiting to see how the implement this condition. I think a lot of people are overthinking this, not to mention, ANet picked these classes for a reason we can’t clearly see.

I’m sorry but I just don’t see how that is possible (for a warrior to beat a thief). Short bow alone covers more than anything they can do. 25% speed buff from signet/swift on dodge etc.

Lol what? really..?

You mean the GS whirl (450), the GS rush (1200), the sword leap (600) AND the constant swiftness..? I think that is what you meant to say… or you missed in OP where I said “a warrior using a GS and sword/warhorn has the same open field mobility as a thief”..

DrMatt.9408:

has this been posted here yet?

Leaks have always been against TOS … atleast on GURU they always were…
Anet almost always puts every build still in testing under NDA. Plz respect those NDA’s