Guild Wars 2

In the recent patch they added an uncommon drop to the Black Lion Chests, giving access to a beautiful place in the new map Bitterfrost Frontier:

Here’s what it looks like

Anyone who likes to explore is now suggested to buy keys to get to a certain point of the map. It’s not a convenience area (like Lava Lounge), so it really grinds my gears that it’s locked behind $ RNG $ in Black Lion Chests. Explorable areas should be available to everyone without having to pay money!

Does anyone know if there’s an alternative way to get there?

Huh. If it was some place impressive, it might be as you say. But, it seems to just be a platform and a tree. Albeit, a good place to glide from.

Not a lot different from those places players access by breaking out of the map…at least, to me.

Being impressive is subjective.
It’s a part of the new map and you’ll have to buy keys to get a chance (RNG!) of getting access to it. That’s a shady move.

They could have sold it for map currency like the portal scroll. Right now, it’s a pay2play part.

It is a pretty insignificant area, but I can see the concern. It could be a “slippery slope” kind of thing. Today its just a ledge and a tree. A year and several examples later, its half a map locked away in a BL chest.
It probably won’t be, but given the tendency of game companies to do this, people are right to be worried

Yeah was just thinking the same thing as squee, this isn’t really a big deal, but it sets a precedence for what could become a major problem.

Locking off portions of a map behind $$$BL Keys$$$? That’s pretty kitten shady, to me.

Conncept.7638:

Yeah was just thinking the same thing as squee, this isn’t really a big deal, but it sets a precedence for what could become a major problem.

It’s slowly been moving that direction through various gem items (Immortal skins, for example, can only be obtained through gem purchases, and then there’s that Black Lion weapon set that is account bound but requires a black lion ticket to purchase). So it’s not like this sort of practice is new, they’re just doing it more and more. To me, this says that regardless of sales numbers etc., Anet is not doing as well as expected financially. If they were doing well, they wouldn’t need to resort to these sort of gimmicks to make money.

Neural.1824:

Conncept.7638:

Yeah was just thinking the same thing as squee, this isn’t really a big deal, but it sets a precedence for what could become a major problem.

It’s slowly been moving that direction through various gem items (Immortal skins, for example, can only be obtained through gem purchases, and then there’s that Black Lion weapon set that is account bound but requires a black lion ticket to purchase). So it’s not like this sort of practice is new, they’re just doing it more and more. To me, this says that regardless of sales numbers etc., Anet is not doing as well as expected financially. If they were doing well, they wouldn’t need to resort to these sort of gimmicks to make money.

skins are skins. they dont increase stats. they dont offer anything other t han personal aesthetic. you should be GLAD that anet has deliberately made ONLY aesthetic choices locked behind a paywall. they could make level 80 zones or ascended armor or raids cost money. they dont. you are exactly as good at this game as you want to be, money has nothing to do with content, only aesthetic.

the special place being a ledge and a tree is pretty stupid though. whats the point?

Felahr.9830:

the special place being a ledge and a tree is pretty stupid though. whats the point?

If you read through the thread you should have seen this:

It could be a “slippery slope” kind of thing. Today its just a ledge and a tree. A year and several examples later, its half a map locked away in a BL chest.

It’s not ok to lock parts of a map behind RNG, forcing you to buy enough keys to get the item, to be able to explore the complete map. Their way to earn money always consisted of cosmetic and convenience items. And it should stay like that.

The place is very valuable for traveling through the map. If we take on account that Bitterfrost seems to be fairly hard to navigate from the ground, this item becomes a truly precious thing, and a clear advantage over other players.

If there isn’t other way to get there, I’d say it’s a mild form of P2Play, but on the verge of P2W. IMHO, it is in the same spot as the Watchwork Mining Pick.

Ehhh….seems more on par with the airship ticket to me.

Convient, but not needed

Serophous.9085:

Ehhh….seems more on par with the airship ticket to me.

The airship ticket is a convenience area you can buy with gems.

The Bitterfrost Vantage Point is part of a Living World map, and you have to gamble, pay for keys to get access to it.

Serophous.9085:

Convient, but not needed

You could say that about every single vista in GW2. They are beautiful places in Tyria, but not needed. Would you like to pay for each of them?

I DO see this as advantageous to those players, personally, because of the difficulty getting around this zone. Its basically an additional waypoint, but beyond this its so high that you can glide to most of the zone enemy-free.

This is much more than just a cosmetic change, and I agree with others that it is the beginning of a very slippery slope.

Personally I’d be ticked off if I got this drop from a BLC. A waste of a “reward” item.

Sorry, I don’t share your concerns or perspective.

I think it’s a neat bonus thing to get out of a BLC, and keys are obtainable to any player w/o having to spend cash. And, if cash is spent, it’d be closer to a P2L than a P2W since it deprives you of mobs and drops. Speedier travel (in this case by gliding from a super-high ledge) is never P2W.

People clamor about how BLCs aren’t worth the effort or money to obtain keys… well, this is a step towards making it worth it… and again, it’s a non-P2W step, which is the kind of step I want to see.

~EW

I’m curious about the drop rate of it. I got a key from fully exploring the new map, used the key, and bam, there was a Scenic portal thing. I don’t usually have that kind of luck with BL chests (heck, I got maybe 2 or 3 keys out of 19 alts fully exploring Bloodstone Fen), so it does subjectively feel as if it must be super easy to get at least during this release window.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Sorry, I don’t share your concerns or perspective.

I think it’s a neat bonus thing to get out of a BLC, and keys are obtainable to any player w/o having to spend cash. And, if cash is spent, it’d be closer to a P2L than a P2W since it deprives you of mobs and drops. Speedier travel (in this case by gliding from a super-high ledge) is never P2W.

People clamor about how BLCs aren’t worth the effort or money to obtain keys… well, this is a step towards making it worth it… and again, it’s a non-P2W step, which is the kind of step I want to see.

~EW

Gliding above the enemies grants you an easier way to navigate through the map. You can also see it as an additional waypoint. Furthermore, the maps of the Living World belong to HoT. We paid for our expansion, so we surely won’t pay again in order to experience 100% of the maps.

You do know that if people agree on this they will go further and lock larger areas each time? You can see the concerns of the people in this thread. Black Lion Chests are gambling and are therefore not meant to lock maps. I think ArcheAge has been accused to be P2W because they started to put more and more into RNG boxes. Do you want GW2 to be like that?

I don’t see anything of the kind.

I remember, before Core launch, how the forums (Guru) were up in arms over the ‘slippery slope’ of placing Boosters in the Gem Store. Also, Repair Canisters were ‘pay-to-win’ because the forum-users were upset they might be caught ‘naked’.

A couple of months ago, Boosters, as well as Repair Canisters, in BL Chests were considered ‘trash’.

Regardless, one can obtain BL Keys at no cost, whatsoever.

Tekey.7946:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Sorry, I don’t share your concerns or perspective.

I think it’s a neat bonus thing to get out of a BLC, and keys are obtainable to any player w/o having to spend cash. And, if cash is spent, it’d be closer to a P2L than a P2W since it deprives you of mobs and drops. Speedier travel (in this case by gliding from a super-high ledge) is never P2W.

People clamor about how BLCs aren’t worth the effort or money to obtain keys… well, this is a step towards making it worth it… and again, it’s a non-P2W step, which is the kind of step I want to see.

~EW

Gliding above the enemies grants you an easier way to navigate through the map. You can also see it as an additional waypoint. Furthermore, the maps of the Living World belong to HoT. We paid for our expansion, so we surely won’t pay again in order to experience 100% of the maps.

You do know that if people agree on this they will go further and lock larger areas each time? You can see the concerns of the people in this thread. Black Lion Chests are gambling and are therefore not meant to lock maps. I think ArcheAge has been accused to be P2W because they started to put more and more into RNG boxes. Do you want GW2 to be like that?

And again, I don’t share your perspective. It’s not locking part of a map. Gliding is a primary mode of fast travel in this game. Speedier travel is never P2W… so how should such an item function in GW2, then? Should they just spawn you way high up in the air and drop you hoping your loading screen vanishes in time for you to deploy your glider? It makes sense that it drops you onto a ledge from which you can glide… that is awesome.

It’s a convenience item, nothing more… the ledge you’re put on is a logical part of how this type of convenience should work with the existing infrastructure of gliding. Convenience items are never P2W… that’s the same as saying the harvesting nodes you get out of BLCs are P2W… or buying the home portal stone off the gem store is P2W. It demonstrates a lack of understanding of what P2W is.

You are not map-locked. You are over-reacting.

And, your slippery-slope fears are just that: fears… they’re a logical fallacy.

~EW

I got one of these things yesterday, not all that useful to a PvP/WvW player.

It’s a shame I can’t even sell it on the Trading Post, hopefully Anet can change this fact so players like myself who do get one can sen sell it to players who want/need it.

(it works in the mists, took my level 2 character in white gear strait to the new map.)

Meh, misleading topic title. What content are you missing out on exactly?
As for it being a slippery slope they’ve actually already done worse than this when they added the mini pets that have quests (aka actual content) to get other mini pets

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And again, I don’t share your perspective. It’s not locking part of a map.

Could you please take an objective look at it? It’s not about perspective, these are facts: The player who bought keys and obtained the item will be spawned in a beautifully designed place in the mountains of Bitterfrost Frontier other players will never ever see. So they did exactly lock a part of the map.

Plus, the only way you can get access to it is gambling. Tell me more about how this isn’t shady.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

Meh, misleading topic title. What content are you missing out on exactly?

An explorable area in Bitterfrost Frontier. It’s subjective if you want to see it or not, but players have to buy keys to get access to it. Some of them use it as a third waypoint in the map.

Tekey.7946:

Being impressive is subjective.
It’s a part of the new map and you’ll have to buy keys to get a chance (RNG!) of getting access to it. That’s a shady move.

They could have sold it for map currency like the portal scroll. Right now, it’s a pay2play part.

It in no way blocks map completion, so what’s the problem? Really what is wrong with it? It’s a ledge with a tree, and that’s it. There is nothing there. I’d be annoyed if I paid for a key and got that as a drop.

I just wish it was sell-able/purchasable on the TP. Then I would be ok with it.

Donari.5237:

I’m curious about the drop rate of it. I got a key from fully exploring the new map, used the key, and bam, there was a Scenic portal thing. I don’t usually have that kind of luck with BL chests (heck, I got maybe 2 or 3 keys out of 19 alts fully exploring Bloodstone Fen), so it does subjectively feel as if it must be super easy to get at least during this release window.

I opened about 75 and got 9 of them. So I would say about one in ten on average probibly. The extras get replaced with keys.

Tekey.7946:

Could you please take an objective look at it? It’s not about perspective, these are facts: The player who bought keys and obtained the item will be spawned in a beautifully designed place in the mountains of Bitterfrost Frontier other players will never ever see. So they did exactly lock a part of the map.

It is about perspective. You see it a location on the map: a place to go to. I see it as a means to glide high above the map with a starting point that is immaterial to the function… again, would you object if they just dropped you high from the sky and hoped you had a fast loading time? The point of platform has nothing to do with map completion, POIs, achievements, mob spawns, jumping puzzles, or any other functions of a map. It could be invisible with no view because you’re surrounded by clouds, or a crevice in the mountain with a launch pad that shoots you out of it… the view doesn’t matter, only the function.

And, see, that’s where we have a different perspective: you think the view matters; you’re not putting any importance on the function of the item beyond seeing a view… for me, if that was what the item was for, it would be a complete waste of an item.

There are plenty of places across Tyria that other players will never see for many reasons. I think you mean that it’s a place that some players won’t potentially see due to BLC RNG, is that correct? One reason is as good as any another why someone might not see something.

And, just to split hairs a bit, you’re not locked out of it if you don’t have the item… I’ve seen nothing that states you can’t use the Teleport to a Friend item to get up there. If I’m wrong on that, please point me to that info, and I’ll strike out this part.

Tekey.7946:

Plus, the only way you can get access to it is gambling. Tell me more about how this isn’t shady.

RNG exists throughout GW2, whether it be via BLC or mob drops. RNG is a staple function within MMOs and most other games in existence… whether it be computer generated , a roll of the dice, or a shuffle of the cards. Every time you kill a mob, you’re gambling even if you’re not thinking about it. RNG isn’t shady.

How should BLC’s function? What kinds of rewards should they give that would encourage someone to farm or buy keys? Do you feel all items in the BLCs should be obtainable by other means? Because if you do, there we continue to disagree… I have no issues with a convenience item being obtainable solely via RNG.

~EW

If you could only buy black lion keys with real cash, I would see/have a problem.

As long you are still able to obtain them with gold, I do not.

I am all for gold sinks.

Yeah nothing to see with this item….It is just a ledge with a tree on it. There is no additional vendors, It doesn’t block me off of map completion, it is not like if getting to this ledge was the only way to travel the map fast (ie. accessing the ley line) and we already have access to all thermal tubes.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

There are plenty of places across Tyria that other players will never see for many reasons. I think you mean that it’s a place that some players won’t potentially see due to BLC RNG, is that correct? One reason is as good as any another why someone might not see something.

Reasons… like? Everyone who bought HoT has access to every map in GW2. No one is left out on anything, you’re able to explore everything. But you don’t have access to the vantage point unless you bought keys. That’s the difference.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And, just to split hairs a bit, you’re not locked out of it if you don’t have the item… I’ve seen nothing that states you can’t use the Teleport to a Friend item to get up there. If I’m wrong on that, please point me to that info, and I’ll strike out this part.

If it worked, your access to the mountain depends on another player who bought keys. You can’t go there anytime. A time gated, random chance to explore a place is not a solution. Plus, you can’t even buy Teleports to a Friend. They’re also part of Black Lion Chests or birthday gifts.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

RNG exists throughout GW2, whether it be via BLC or mob drops. RNG is a staple function within MMOs and most other games in existence… whether it be computer generated , a roll of the dice, or a shuffle of the cards. Every time you kill a mob, you’re gambling even if you’re not thinking about it. RNG isn’t shady.

But it never prevented you from getting to a certain place in Tyria.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

How should BLC’s function? What kinds of rewards should they give that would encourage someone to farm or buy keys? Do you feel all items in the BLCs should be obtainable by other means?

The Black Lion Chests were updated recently. They do contain the chance of random wardrobe unlocks now. It’s been a reason why people started to buy keys again. Starting to lock areas after the game survived 4 years without it is surely not the only solution they have.

Telemin.7380:

If you could only buy black lion keys with real cash, I would see/have a problem.

As long you are still able to obtain them with gold, I do not.

I am all for gold sinks.

There are different views of p2w and similar terms, here’s one of them:
When you are paying for advantage which normal players don’t have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).

As far as I know, BDO had a huge kittenstorm and many players leaving because of that. You can either pay money or grind for a long, long time to get to the same things as those who paid.

Who knows how much keys I need to buy in order to get the item? It’s random. You can buy 25 keys for 2100 gems. Do you know how long I had to farm and grind for that?

And a number of items got revamped when this patch came out. Not just talking the seasonal item but different BL weapon skin sets, shuffling of the makeover and hair kit from uncommon to rare, swapping out the dye kit, swapping out the home instance node drop and adding a 2nd one to the list of possibilities. They also added added the raven mail carrier as a rare? That’s the huh? change to the BLC.

Regardless of all the differing opinions, I am totally disappointed with the decision to incorporate RNG pay to get mechanics. Having an outlier account that gets nothing (in my case) from a broken RNG , only increases my frustration with the loss of direction that Anet continually demonstrates under its current leadership.

Tekey.7946:

There are different views of p2w and similar terms, here’s one of them:
When you are paying for advantage which normal players don’t have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).

As far as I know, BDO had a huge kittenstorm and many players leaving because of that. You can either pay money or grind for a long, long time to get to the same things as those who paid.

Who knows how much keys I need to buy in order to get the item? It’s random. You can buy 25 keys for 2100 gems. Do you know how long I had to farm and grind for that?

This isn’t BDO, and you’re really making a mountain out of a molehill here in my opinion. The bitterfrost item is a neat random drop that lets you check out a cool vantage point. That’s it. There is no other advantage. Gliding from there to other areas of the map isn’t much of an advantage when the map isn’t that big and isn’t that hard to navigate. You can fully explore it within an hour.

And to call it explorable content is silly. There is nothing there to explore! There is no content there, unless you consider the tree and the sky “explorable content.” You can see everything that other players can see without even going up there. Watch a YouTube video of the area and boom, you’ve seen what there is to see. Are you truly that upset at being “locked out” of a literal hang-out spot simply because you haven’t gotten the lucky RNG drop from a BLC? This is the thing you’re going to get bent out of shape over? Really?

I could understand if there were merchants or bankers or other convenience things up there, but c’mon man. This is a spot to sit. Big deal!

Rage has to be directed somewhere, I guess. Such rage. Much anger. Wow.

Personally? I vote for more of these cool account bound trinkets and gadgets in Black Lion Chests. I would love for there to be a reason to actually buy keys again and when I saw this neat little thing pop up, I thought, “Hey, that’s a cool little extra. I hope I get it!”

See this as a positive, man. It could’ve been replaced with a Wintersday Gift. Would you be happier with that?

Also, one must not only pay or grind forever to obtain keys. No need to exaggerate. Keys drop from map completion, and 3 times in the Personal Story, as well as other story instances.

Some of the players actually enjoy the weekly key-farm.

@drunkenpilot: As some players mentioned in the first 10 posts, this isn’t purely about the single vantage point in Bitterfrost Frontier. You have to understand that it can set the first step for more pay2play areas to come. In 4 years, this is the first time we’ve ever seen a non-convenience area being locked behind RNG gambling. We’ve seen so many games that went downhill because of financial conflicts (paying systems). Now add the fact that the last two quarters of GW2 have had the lowest earnings ever. Let’s hope that GW2 won’t take the same way. I contributed my concerns to the feedback thread of the episode and hope that they will think about it.

Plus, as I’m playing to explore Tyria, I’ll always know that there’s one point I’ll never see. Do you really consider watching a youtube video as a solution?

@Inculpatus cedo
They do drop from map completions, yes. But you’ll get way more transmutations charges compared to keys. How many maps do you have to complete in order to get the right amount of keys? How many characters do you have to get through the personal story? In the end, you might have put endless hours into it and end up with no item at all, because it’s completely random.

Then, it would be disingenuous to state that the only was to obtain keys is to purchase them.

Again, key-farming is a thing that players can participate in.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Then, it would be disingenuous to state that the only was to obtain keys is to purchase them.

Again, key-farming is a thing that players can participate in.

P2W: When you are paying for advantage which normal players don’t have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).

In BDO you can also grind and farm months to get to the same level as people who payed. Yet, the players didn’t take it and left the game.

Now here’s the patchnote referring to the item:

The Bitterfrost Vantage Point item has been added as an uncommon drop for the duration of this seasonal change.

The drop is also time limited. I can’t take my time, do a map completion now and then, because the drop will disappear again. It’s now or never.

Tekey.7946:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And again, I don’t share your perspective. It’s not locking part of a map.

Could you please take an objective look at it? It’s not about perspective, these are facts: The player who bought keys and obtained the item will be spawned in a beautifully designed place in the mountains of Bitterfrost Frontier other players will never ever see. So they did exactly lock a part of the map.

Plus, the only way you can get access to it is gambling. Tell me more about how this isn’t shady.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

Meh, misleading topic title. What content are you missing out on exactly?

An explorable area in Bitterfrost Frontier. It’s subjective if you want to see it or not, but players have to buy keys to get access to it. Some of them use it as a third waypoint in the map.

You ask him to be objective while you express subjective views regarding aesthetics and make claims that are inaccurate. Bizarre.

Is there:

A: Progression or story attached to the area?
or
B Is it more like Noble’s Folly?

If A, not cool. If B, no biggus dealus.

Tekey.7946:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

There are plenty of places across Tyria that other players will never see for many reasons. I think you mean that it’s a place that some players won’t potentially see due to BLC RNG, is that correct? One reason is as good as any another why someone might not see something.

Reasons… like? Everyone who bought HoT has access to every map in GW2. No one is left out on anything, you’re able to explore everything. But you don’t have access to the vantage point unless you bought keys. That’s the difference.

News flash: The new maps might require HoT to access, but they’re not part of HoT. They are free content that ANet is under no obligation to release them or any part of the LW to the players… they can stop them or even remove them at any time, and if they did you would not be out any part of what you purchased with HoT. They could even change it so that it wouldn’t require HoT access, and you’d still not be out of any part of what you purchased with HoT. It’s a subtle difference, but an important one…. Because it is why your argument comes off as entitlement.

And as far as reasons go as why you might not see something, here’s a few: 1) You didn’t know something was there, and just didn’t see it every time you passed it. 2) You don’t want to purchase the Royal Terrace Pass, Captain’s Airship Pass, or similar from the gem store. 3) You don’t have the manual dexterity to get where you want to go. 4) You have an extreme aversion to the area, such as PvP or WvW. Do I need to continue? Not wanting to obtain keys for a drop that doesn’t appear difficult to get ranks equally among all those since you don’t need RL money to obtain keys.

Tekey.7946:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And, just to split hairs a bit, you’re not locked out of it if you don’t have the item… I’ve seen nothing that states you can’t use the Teleport to a Friend item to get up there. If I’m wrong on that, please point me to that info, and I’ll strike out this part.

If it worked, your access to the mountain depends on another player who bought keys. You can’t go there anytime. A time gated, random chance to explore a place is not a solution. Plus, you can’t even buy Teleports to a Friend. They’re also part of Black Lion Chests or birthday gifts.

If it works, then it is a separate means for you to get up there. You have already had other people admit on your thread to getting the BVP item…. I’m sure it would be a piece of cake to make a request of someone here or on map chat or in a guild if you’re in one to find someone willing to let you use Teleport to Friend. TtFs are also given for an achievement, so they’re not exclusive to RNG or waiting a year. They are a perfectly valid alternative to get up there w/o having to use a BLC.

Also, has anyone tried to see if the Mesmer teleport is feasible? It does have a range of 5000, after all. That might be a 3rd way to get up there.

It pays to think of the solution, instead of the problem.

Tekey.7946:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

RNG exists throughout GW2, whether it be via BLC or mob drops. RNG is a staple function within MMOs and most other games in existence… whether it be computer generated , a roll of the dice, or a shuffle of the cards. Every time you kill a mob, you’re gambling even if you’re not thinking about it. RNG isn’t shady.

But it never prevented you from getting to a certain place in Tyria.

Ah, so you hate change and that’s what makes RNG shady. Gotchya. If GW2 used horses for mounts, then this is no different than a horse stable in the sky… and again, I assert that it’s not a place you’re getting but a different version of a travel boost.

Tekey.7946:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

How should BLC’s function? What kinds of rewards should they give that would encourage someone to farm or buy keys? Do you feel all items in the BLCs should be obtainable by other means?

The Black Lion Chests were updated recently. They do contain the chance of random wardrobe unlocks now. It’s been a reason why people started to buy keys again. Starting to lock areas after the game survived 4 years without it is surely not the only solution they have.

And, I don’t see it as locking areas. Your OP compared it to a convenience place like the Lava Lounge, when it functionally is NOT.

You’ve established your aversion to this item… good on ya’ for that. Maybe you’re right and it’s ultimately a bad idea. Maybe I’m right and it’s a great idea. At least ANet has the courage to try new things to see if they work, and that is a great thing for a game company to do. Can we at least agree on that?

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

(…)

You’ve established your aversion to this item… good on ya’ for that. Maybe you’re right and it’s ultimately a bad idea. Maybe I’m right and it’s a great idea. At least ANet has the courage to try new things to see if they work, and that is a great thing for a game company to do. Can we at least agree on that?

~EW

+1 to this whole post. Well said and I totally agree on all counts.

Tekey.7946:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Then, it would be disingenuous to state that the only was to obtain keys is to purchase them.

Again, key-farming is a thing that players can participate in.

P2W: When you are paying for advantage which normal players don’t have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).

In BDO you can also grind and farm months to get to the same level as people who payed. Yet, the players didn’t take it and left the game.

Now here’s the patchnote referring to the item:

The Bitterfrost Vantage Point item has been added as an uncommon drop for the duration of this seasonal change.

The drop is also time limited. I can’t take my time, do a map completion now and then, because the drop will disappear again. It’s now or never.

I’ve played a SERIOUS Pay to Win game before, I wouldn’t consider this little space, pay to win, only a neat space or travel convenience. P2W from experience are things that give people who pay a much higher advantage than someone who doesn’t and just plays as normal, a example of this would be having 2 weapons. 1 Weapon has 10 damage. and that’s the max you can get through normal play, the other weapon is 20+ damage with special bonuses, only way of getting it is paying money for it. That’s P2W.

1. You can buy keys with in game gold
2. You can use Teleport to Friend item to get to this area

I don’t think it is a grave issue. But I do think its a bad precedent.
Again, to me, it is really similar to the Watchwork Mining Pick case: a marginal but objective advantage tied to hard cash mechanics.

Ardid.7203:

I don’t think it is a grave issue. But I do think its a bad precedent.
Again, to me, it is really similar to the Watchwork Mining Pick case: a marginal but objective advantage tied to hard cash mechanics.

theres no advantage. it doesnt give you an item. it literally gives you a 10 foot platform with the sun blinding you, and a pretty tree to stare at. thats literally it. its nothing, physically, different than any other scenic spot in the game except this one is exclusive, which really doesnt matter because its not even that godkitten pretty. its actually kind of boring. even the grotto in the grove is prettier. who gives a kitten about a boring rock you can sit at? theres nothing there! it doesnt give you a buff or a stat advantage or ANYTHING

I’m a little amazed how some people just don’t “get” what the problem is here. IF Anet sells a ton of Black Lion Keys because of people trying to get to this area, and they can track this of course, then what will happen in the NEXT area, and the one after that? This is how big problems get started. Right now its an empty terrace. What if in the next area its a terrace with a banker, a merchant, and a trading post vendor? Then they sell twice as many keys! Cool! So the next area has all of the above + some neat ruins to explore. More keys. Next area adds a Mastery Point. Next area adds a unique champion fight, etc. THIS is how all of that starts. And the number of people who can’t see this right now is disheartening.

Personally I hope that they see ZERO increase in key purchases, despite how much I like these new zones and the game in general. I WANT them to make more money, but not like this.

The viewpoint drop is imo one of the better changes to the black lion keys. Mind you myself and several people i know have gotten one to drop within the first 5 keys. (2 for me)

This combined with the outfit dropping from keys pretty easily aswell makes the black lion keys worth buying for the first time since launch. Wardrobe unlocks are a welcome common drop and the other utility drops now actually have a use.

If you have trouble with this change please fully realise that to get black lion keys you can map complete the new maps with ease. Keys are no longer as rare as they were. And to buy 5 keys is still cheaper than buying the outfit which you have a very good chance to drop from those keys.

I hope for future releases that more of this kind of content is added but not exclusively so seeing as these teleports and scrolls are slowly adding up to half a bank tab.

I agree , the main issue is RNG (guess those Gambling boxes arent selling to introduce something like that?) , 2nd issue is that the item provides a substancial advantage > being able to travel to any point in the zone gliding…

is a precedent and a bad one

Just seems unnecessary really. In more ways than one.

fourhim.3584:

I’m a little amazed how some people just don’t “get” what the problem is here. IF Anet sells a ton of Black Lion Keys because of people trying to get to this area, and they can track this of course, then what will happen in the NEXT area, and the one after that? This is how big problems get started. Right now its an empty terrace. What if in the next area its a terrace with a banker, a merchant, and a trading post vendor? Then they sell twice as many keys! Cool! So the next area has all of the above + some neat ruins to explore. More keys. Next area adds a Mastery Point. Next area adds a unique champion fight, etc. THIS is how all of that starts. And the number of people who can’t see this right now is disheartening.

Personally I hope that they see ZERO increase in key purchases, despite how much I like these new zones and the game in general. I WANT them to make more money, but not like this.

Exactly. Sets a terrible precedent. Rift started out small with an item that could only be gotten via gambling with lockboxes and over time expanded to many items, the most desirable (to many players) items in the game. They got a horrible rep for it and players leaving in droves (over this and Turbine’s many other bad decisions). I hate to think of Guild Wars headed in this direction.

How many threads did I see posted on the Rift forum by bitter and disillusioned players claiming they had spent $100 or more on lockboxes trying to get something in particular and just got junk to show for it. They leave with a bad taste and tell their friends. It’s very bad PR. Short term gain for the company maybe, with long term fallout.

A journey, for good or ill, begins with one step, and this journey is for ill, mark my words.