Bleeding too much damage? Hmmz, ticking at 113 damage, I don’t see how that could prove to be a problem? Confusion is something totally different (although it’s also a condition), its damage triggers on skill activation. And the damage it triggered is quite some more than bleeding stacks can..
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Commander – Jam Death [Jd]
Fissure of Woe
but take 1 stack of bleeding lasts 10+ sek but confusion only for 1 to 2 sek mostly and you can evade all confusion damage when you dont do enyfing you cant evade from other conditions
but take 1 stack of bleeding lasts 10+ sek but confusion only for 1 to 2 sek mostly and you can evade all confusion damage when you dont do enyfing you cant evade from other conditions
Increased condition duration will also have its effect on confusion if I’m not mistaken.. And bleeds don’t last 10+ seconds by default, trust me..
And that’s the great things about conditions: You get a condition and you need to wear it off or remove it. Applies to bleeding, poison, confusion, … The fact that bleeding does constant (tiny) damage shouldn’t be too frowed upon.. Condition removal, anyone?
The Hatreidis family: Freya / Nina / Demonica / Athena / Faith / Arya / Angie / Sansa
Commander – Jam Death [Jd]
Fissure of Woe
but take 1 stack of bleeding lasts 10+ sek but confusion only for 1 to 2 sek mostly and you can evade all confusion damage when you dont do enyfing you cant evade from other conditions
Increased condition duration will also have its effect on confusion if I’m not mistaken.. And bleeds don’t last 10+ seconds by default, trust me..
And that’s the great things about conditions: You get a condition and you need to wear it off or remove it. Applies to bleeding, poison, confusion, … The fact that bleeding does constant (tiny) damage shouldn’t be too frowed upon.. Condition removal, anyone?
yea I know they dont stack 10 seconds by deafult I have necromancer and I can stack bleed with nb1 skill for around 12 sec and yes I know the point is to remove conditions and this post was more like joke on response to confusion nerf but as I can see this post was transfered to succestions and it scares me that im being takeing seriously
what i really want is tath classes are not nerfed for pvp/wvw ok yes confusion makes alot of dmg put real reason for confusion is to slow enemy down so you get breething room and also takeing down bunker builds who think they are immortal / we all know thefes used to kill us allmost instantly but dagger to heart does tath to person and everything has counter
but abouth confusion my best idea how to get it under control would be tath it is in its full power everywere but for every stack of confusion you have you get 1sec of recovery after its gone(not cured) when its timed out so it will reward ppl who know there is no point to do wile under confusion.
nerfing bleed dmg by 50%.. nice.! don’t forget how poison and burning does too much dmg also!!
apparently, critical damage does much more than condition damage !!
this is blasphemy!! lets nerf it too!!! -50% crit dmg ftw!!
Poison is not a high damage ability. Though I really don’t understand how they nerfed confusion but not bleeding and burning.
Bleeding does about 120 dmg/stack/tick. It can last ~12 seconds and is easily applied in stacks of 15-20. You can not avoid the damage
Confusion after the nerf does 150 dmg/stack/tick it is capped at 10 seconds, but usually only lasts 4-5, it is very difficult to stack more then 5 stacks on a person for more then a split second. You can easily avoid all damage from it by not attacking.
Bleeding does 2-3x more damage on average now then confusion, it needs to have a 66% nerf imo.
Poison is not a high damage ability. Though I really don’t understand how they nerfed confusion but not bleeding and burning.
Bleeding does about 120 dmg/stack/tick. It can last ~12 seconds and is easily applied in stacks of 15-20. You can not avoid the damage
Confusion after the nerf does 150 dmg/stack/tick it is capped at 10 seconds, but usually only lasts 4-5, it is very difficult to stack more then 5 stacks on a person for more then a split second. You can easily avoid all damage from it by not attacking.
Bleeding does 2-3x more damage on average now then confusion, it needs to have a 66% nerf imo.
Bleeding works as intended. Why should Confusion be equal to bleeding? You are not taking in account the other skills of mesmer.
The counters for confusion are condition removal and not doing anything. The former is also a counter for bleeds. However, eventually you’ll run out of condition removers and be stuck with a choice of either dying or not doing anything. And the latter pretty much leads to the former.
Also, you people talking about the damage need to get your eyes checked:
Bleeding starts at 42.5 and gets 5 more for every 100 condition damage
Confusion starts at 130 and gets 15 more for every 100 condition damage
So not only does Confusion start at nearly 3x the base, but it also scales at a 3x rate.
You also have to take into account that if you use fast hitting skills like Thief’s Dagger attacks you take insane amounts of damage from Confusion very fast.
It forces you to play differently.
Meanwhile Bleed doesn’t deal any extra damage depending on what you are doing.
The trick to Bleeds is cleansing them after the opponent has blown a lot of cooldowns to get a large stack of them as even a stack of 10 or 25 Bleeds counts as jsut 1 condition for removal skills.
If you remove the first bleed and then get hit by 10 more while your removal is on cooldown… well that’s bad.
Necros especially love to bait people into using removals on trivial things like a 1 second Fear or a short Chill before they stack up a ton of Bleeds in a row.
Bleeding too much damage? Hmmz, ticking at 113 damage, I don’t see how that could prove to be a problem? Confusion is something totally different (although it’s also a condition), its damage triggers on skill activation. And the damage it triggered is quite some more than bleeding stacks can..
Unless the target has half a brain.
Which, considered the direction Anet is taking, seems something to be punished.
Yeah that’s a load of nonsense, and you are completely ignoring any and all interactive media design principles.
In 1v1, yes generally a confusion memser doesn’t require anything of you except that you wait to let the confusion burn off. That’s still terrible design, a player should never be required to do absolutely nothing with no other choice given, that kills counterplay. The skill doesn’t just affect damage and HP, it makes a supposedly interactive game completely non-interactive for a period of time.
In group play it’s an even bigger problem, which matters a great deal more as 5v5 is what the game is balanced around. A mesmer on one team loads as much confusion on an enemy as he can. If that player has ‘half a brain’ according to you, he sits there and let’s his team get slaughtered, contributing nothing. So confusion effectively boils down to the games most frustrating and longest duration stun, as a stack of confusion with maxed out condition duration can last 7-8 seconds on most Mesmer abilities and 10 in the case of Confusing Images.
So you either: A) remove confusion when you only have a few stacks, taking very little damage, but risking that the mesmer has more stacks available or B ) remove confusion when you’re sure the memser has expended all stacks and pray it doesn’t kill you.
So you either: A) remove confusion when you only have a few stacks, taking very little damage, but risking that the mesmer has more stacks available or B ) remove confusion when you’re sure the memser has expended all stacks and pray it doesn’t kill you.
OP is talking about bleed.
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So you either: A) remove confusion when you only have a few stacks, taking very little damage, but risking that the mesmer has more stacks available or B ) remove confusion when you’re sure the memser has expended all stacks and pray it doesn’t kill you.
OP is talking about bleed.
Well he’s comparing bleed to confusion, which a lot of us are arguing isn’t even a remotely accurate comparison. But fair enough, pardon my mistake.
So you either: A) remove confusion when you only have a few stacks, taking very little damage, but risking that the mesmer has more stacks available or B ) remove confusion when you’re sure the memser has expended all stacks and pray it doesn’t kill you.
OP is talking about bleed.
Well he’s comparing bleed to confusion, which a lot of us are arguing isn’t even a remotely fair comparison. But fair enough, pardon my mistake.
He’s sadpanda cuz of confusion nerf, which is technically just a mesmer nerf. He wants to nerf all condition dmg builds across the board to vent his anger and fulfill his revengence upon the world, which isn’t rational. It also makes him a meanie, imo.
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Honestly if you died to confusion before the nerf you were a kitten If you die to bleeds, you are a kitten The only difference is if you had confusion you could stop attacking if you cond removal was gone. If you get hit with a stack of 10+ bleeds and your cond removal is on CD all you can do is run away and watch as it kills you and there is nothing you can do about it.
Lol the last time I played(last week I think). Confusion was hitting me for like 100 at most. It is completely worthless now. I just have to laugh when I see a Mesmer glamour field on the ground now, I purposefully run through it over and over because it tickles.
<sarcasm> Yes, let us nerf condition damage by 50%, then we can all play Berzerker builds and be happy ‘cause we’re all exactly the same. Yay for diversity! </sarcasm>
If anything, I think that they should revert some of the Confusion nerf. Not back to 100%, but 50% is just kitten too much
So you either: A) remove confusion when you only have a few stacks, taking very little damage, but risking that the mesmer has more stacks available or B ) remove confusion when you’re sure the memser has expended all stacks and pray it doesn’t kill you.
Except that this isn’t true. Confusion applies after the effect of the ability, so heals that remove conditions and condition removals don’t take damage from confusion.
IMHO the confusion nerf in WvW was absolutely needed.
It wasn’t just the damage; on WvW you also have food (+40% condition duration) and ascended gear (condtion damage / vitality / thoughness) at your disposal.
This things all together were allowing to create absolutely annoying shutdown builds.
Let’s take for example Pry Bar. It caused 5 stacks of confusion that could esily last for 7-8 seconds (on a skill with 15/12 sec of CD), hitting for about 1500 damage on skill use.
With tanky gear this is not punishment, it’s shutdown. An over 50% upkeep time shutdown on just one skill, while your bleeds, poisons and burns eat the enemy alive.
With mesmers everything is different.
They have more confusion sources and they are far more survivable when it wears off, so good luck trying to beat one of them.
On the other hand, they do not apply other conditions as strongly as enginner does and they aren’t the best chaser around, so escaping is always an option … if they are alone.
Almost unbeatable but easy to flee on a 1vs1 basis doesn’t sound OP to me. Extremely annoying indeed, but not OP. On small teamfights however …
The counters for confusion are condition removal and not doing anything. The former is also a counter for bleeds. However, eventually you’ll run out of condition removers and be stuck with a choice of either dying or not doing anything. And the latter pretty much leads to the former.
Also, you people talking about the damage need to get your eyes checked:
Bleeding starts at 42.5 and gets 5 more for every 100 condition damage
Confusion starts at 130 and gets 15 more for every 100 condition damage
So not only does Confusion start at nearly 3x the base, but it also scales at a 3x rate.
Those are pre-nerf numbers. Reduce those by 50% for post nerf numbers. Not sure how scaling was effected, but at ~1100 condition damage I get ~160 dmg per confusion stack now.
If you run out of conditional removals with a bleed stack your choice is dying or dying. Bleeds are much much worse because you have NO choice, you just die, end of story.
I know this is a joke thread but I want to add that with any condition you can choose to ignore it, cleanse it, or heal thru it. With confusion, you can’t heal thru it because it doesn’t tick like other conditions and you can’t ignore it because attacking will kill you. The only counter is cleanse or stop fighting, and I think the 2nd part is why it was nerfed. That being said nerf rangers…they’re too good with that shortbow
You do realize that bleeding is the bread and butter of condition builds damage right? Confusion got nerfed cause it did atrocious damage when over stacked in other words when a group of people stacked confusion on the enemy it was instant death unless you stood still thus you probably die anyways, bleeds you can stack all you want they be removed quickly and overall is the only reason condition builds work.
Poison only halts healing
Chill Halts Cds and movement speed
Burning deal tiny none stack damage
Forget cripple and the rest, you nerf bleeding and all the sword warriors, condition necros and even many of the WvW sieges will have no use at all.
Conditions counter toughness, vitality counters conditions. If conditions are hitting you too hard then either get condition removal or more vitality. Not every condition player spikes massive bleed stacks, I main as a condition engineer and instead of relying on massive bleeds I apply every type of condition I can, only using bleed to cover my better conditions from removal.
Hate to say it but its really a L2Counter situation.
It wasn’t just the damage; on WvW you also have food (+40% condition duration) and ascended gear (condtion damage / vitality / thoughness) at your disposal.
There also is -40% condition duration food and confusion is capped at 10s, so that’s a maximum of 6s and for most skills confusion duration is pretty much laughable. Only problem: people don’t want to use that food because it takes away from their dps. And, except for pry bar (which was even buffed in february, again one of those stupid but typical ANet style kamikaze changes), confusion often also can be avoided easily. Some simple changes to a few skills would have fixed confusion, but nerfing it by 50% without taking into consideration that WvW is in many, many ways different from PvP was way easier of course. ANet likes to take the primrose path with unsophisticated or even mindless changes that require absolutey no effort whatsoever. The portal “nerf” is another example, it didn’t address any of the underlying issues but is just a major annoyance. Now that they started to separate WvW and PvE, they would have to go through every single skill and balance it again. But again, that would take some time. Fixing conditions? Nah. More and more viable builds will disappear from the game until everybody’s running a bunker or glass cannon build that’s easy to balance.
It wasn’t just the damage; on WvW you also have food (+40% condition duration) and ascended gear (condtion damage / vitality / thoughness) at your disposal.
There also is -40% condition duration food and confusion is capped at 10s, so that’s a maximum of 6s and for most skills confusion duration is pretty much laughable. Only problem: people don’t want to use that food because it takes away from their dps.
Yes and No.
I agree with most people chosing damage over survivality, but a -40% condition duration is situtational.
It can do wonders if you face a condition enemy, but it can also be absolutely useless against a direct damage one. A +40% condition duration is always a good pick for a condition build, no matter what you face.
Removed all skills, traits and weapons from all classes and put new ones to fix balance issues.
New weapon type: Blunt
Now avalible to all classes and comes with unique skills “Smash” and “Peace”.
Smash: Hit enemies head to kill instantly. Cooldown 0,5 secs. Only usable in PvE.
Peace: Summon a bouquet of flowers from your blunt to give enemy players. 30 secs cooldown. Only usable in WvW and PvP.
With a very specific Warrior build I can maintain bleeding for upwards of 30 seconds. That’s well over 25k damage from the bleed alone.
You know why I don’t run that build? Because condition removal exists en masse and makes the entire concept pretty useless.
Confusion on the other hand is bursty. You throw 5 stacks of confusion on somebody for 3 seconds and whatever they do in that 3 seconds will do hurt reeeally bad.
Even though bleeds last longer, have less counters and do more dmg it is ok because I can die while still attacking! Confusion made me stop attacking for 6 seconds to live and that is OP, I would much rather die from bleeding!
lol, but alas, that is how Anet balances things so it is what it is I guess.
Even though bleeds last longer, have less counters and do more dmg it is ok because I can die while still attacking! Confusion made me stop attacking for 6 seconds to live and that is OP, I would much rather die from bleeding!
lol, but alas, that is how Anet balances things so it is what it is I guess.
The funny thing is if they put a huge red haze over your head and 10+ damage numbers per second while bleed was ticking, there would be 100 threads a day that it was OP.
Confusion was only OP because once in a while people saw a big pink haze with a large number in it and for some reason could not figure out how to stop it from happening.
(Hmmm, I notice that everytime I attack I get hit. I KNOW I will continue attacking until I die.)
Not seeing this. Not sure exactly what you’re talking about. Also keep in mind not all condi damage amounts are universal so you really have to be specific. My unequipped burst built thief for example does about 20-25 points of bleed damage more then my engineer thats specced/built for all condi damage does even when using EG. so not sure what you mean.
Also, they nerfed condi damage universally just after launch, it was a stealth nerf before they got serious about their patch notes and a very large number of us complained about it because it basically made condi builds useless for pve at that point since they hadn’t separated the damage of PVP PVE yet either.
Confusion was insane. Reflecting 3k burst at you every attack is just flat out broken.
Now that said, I do find conditions as a whole pretty overpowered in this game but for an entirely different reason. If you look at the state of PvP in this game you’ll find that the only truly viable builds for classes are condition based. this is because conditions require only one true stat to make them work and you’re left with 2 other stats per item to invest in (toughness, vitality, healing power being the usual targets). This has lead to the current bunker meta everyone despises.
The correct solution to conditions is to cut their damage by XX% (30% for example) across the board, but allow them to crit. This will resolve the bunker problem, the overloading of condition damage problem, and would encourage a more balanced approach to character development opening up new builds in the process.
Confusion was insane. Reflecting 3k burst at you every attack is just flat out broken.
Now that said, I do find conditions as a whole pretty overpowered in this game but for an entirely different reason. If you look at the state of PvP in this game you’ll find that the only truly viable builds for classes are condition based. this is because conditions require only one true stat to make them work and you’re left with 2 other stats per item to invest in (toughness, vitality, healing power being the usual targets). This has lead to the current bunker meta everyone despises.
The correct solution to conditions is to cut their damage by XX% (30% for example) across the board, but allow them to crit. This will resolve the bunker problem, the overloading of condition damage problem, and would encourage a more balanced approach to character development opening up new builds in the process.
At most you would get hit by 3k once and then you would stop attacking and cleans/or run away or wait maybe not. Were you one of those?? That did not stop attacking and just killed yourself with confusion lol.
11 Stacks of bleed on a condition build can hit for 1500/sec and no way to stop taking that damage without a cleanse. Any halfwit would apply poison first and wait for their opponent to cleanse then hit them with 10+ stacks of bleed and watch them slowly die off as they continued to apply the stacks.
Confusion is only OP if you did not stop attacking, bleed is always OP.
Poison is not a high damage ability. Though I really don’t understand how they nerfed confusion but not bleeding and burning.
Bleeding does about 120 dmg/stack/tick. It can last ~12 seconds and is easily applied in stacks of 15-20. You can not avoid the damage
Confusion after the nerf does 150 dmg/stack/tick it is capped at 10 seconds, but usually only lasts 4-5, it is very difficult to stack more then 5 stacks on a person for more then a split second. You can easily avoid all damage from it by not attacking.
Bleeding does 2-3x more damage on average now then confusion, it needs to have a 66% nerf imo.
If you nerf poison and burning, you nerf rangers, engis, eles, and necros. Do they sound like professions that need nerfed?
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Poison is not a high damage ability. Though I really don’t understand how they nerfed confusion but not bleeding and burning.
Bleeding does about 120 dmg/stack/tick. It can last ~12 seconds and is easily applied in stacks of 15-20. You can not avoid the damage
Confusion after the nerf does 150 dmg/stack/tick it is capped at 10 seconds, but usually only lasts 4-5, it is very difficult to stack more then 5 stacks on a person for more then a split second. You can easily avoid all damage from it by not attacking.
Bleeding does 2-3x more damage on average now then confusion, it needs to have a 66% nerf imo.
If you nerf poison and burning, you nerf rangers, engis, eles, and necros. Do they sound like professions that need nerfed?
So you either: A) remove confusion when you only have a few stacks, taking very little damage, but risking that the mesmer has more stacks available or B ) remove confusion when you’re sure the memser has expended all stacks and pray it doesn’t kill you.
Except that this isn’t true. Confusion applies after the effect of the ability, so heals that remove conditions and condition removals don’t take damage from confusion.
Have you actually encountered a mesmer in game? Because you are mistaken. Confusion deals damage as the ability is activated, if the ability goes off, so does the confusion. Including heals and condition clears. Check the wiki, or just spend a few minutes playing a mesmer.
Even though bleeds last longer, have less counters and do more dmg it is ok because I can die while still attacking! Confusion made me stop attacking for 6 seconds to live and that is OP, I would much rather die from bleeding!
lol, but alas, that is how Anet balances things so it is what it is I guess.
It doesn’t really matter if an attack does 2k direct damage or a 20 second bleed that ticks for 100 damage. It has different counters but in the end it’s just damage.
Confusion is something completely different.
It has “short” duration yes, but no way does less damage than bleeding. Pre-nerf it was ticking for 3 times the bleed damage and usually came in 3-8 stacks on a single attack (which equal to 9-24 bleeding stacks ticking on you, numbers that usually must be slowly built on a bleeding spec).
You can avoid the damage by doing nothing, that’s true, but I think you fail to realize how confusion is meant to be played and how powerful it was. It can be used defensively (in order to buy time for some skill to recharge), It can be used offensively, (correctly timing it on a multi-hit attack, dishing A LOT of damage), and it can be used for control (With 5 stacks of pre-nerf confusion, dealing about 1500 damage on skill use, there’s really no way I can fight back your glass cannon thief mate).
It’s not something like a bleed that you randomly throw in order to deal damage. It’s something that, used at the right time, is far more powerful than a bleed (and absolutely devastating with the old numbers).
It’s not something like a bleed that you randomly throw in order to deal damage. It’s something that, used at the right time, is far more powerful than a bleed (and absolutely devastating with the old numbers).
So you’re saying Confusion requires more “skill” to use.
correctly timing it on a multi-hit attack, dishing A LOT of damage
Confusion procs per ability activation, not per hit. A multi-hit attack will trigger Confusion once only.
True. My bad.
A friend told me once he got demolished by confusion using 100B and I took it as true. I have been stupidly avoiding things like Whirlng Wrath and Zealot Defense while confused for months :P
It’s not something like a bleed that you randomly throw in order to deal damage. It’s something that, used at the right time, is far more powerful than a bleed (and absolutely devastating with the old numbers).
So you’re saying Confusion requires more “skill” to use.
I think it requires better awareness.
Bleed is just a damage source. You want to take a few things on consideration, like covering big stacks or unleash them at full power after condition removal is used; not much different than trying to ensure a direct damage burst.
Confusion is more like a soft-disabling tool. If all the damage can be avoided just by doing nothing, you should try to use it when your enemy is less meant to do nothing, In this case, it can hit like a good amount of bleeds.
I think that they nerf it the wrong way. Having confusion hitting harder but in lorger CDs would be more useful and “skillful” than how it’s now.
The nerf was, however, needed; previous values, with high damage and low CDs / great upkeeps, were just insane.
how about ANET increases bleed dmg but removes STACKS!???! atleast people will think a bit more about builds before they go into a dungeon… + It fixes their stack problems. same for all other conditions,, i thought GW2 was going to be a team game, but nope, it’s all solo DPS button bashing, it stacks anyway,
