Guild Wars 2

Why would Anet allow people to use a DPS meter that can measure someone else’s DPS? Talk about inviting toxic behavior into the game. Terrible idea brought about by Anet trying to make GW2 into an “Esport”.

Djinn.9245:

Why would Anet allow people to use a DPS meter that can measure someone else’s DPS? Talk about inviting toxic behavior into the game. Terrible idea brought about by Anet trying to make GW2 into an “Esport”.

DPS meters have nothing to do with esport. And ANet has never worried about making GW2 into an esport; it’s purely a marketing tool.

Besides which, ANet hasn’t allowed people to use a DPS meter to measure someone else’s DPS; they allowed people to use a personal DPS meter.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Besides which, ANet hasn’t allowed people to use a DPS meter to measure someone else’s DPS; they allowed people to use a personal DPS meter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5sw8ey/arenanets_official_stance_on_3rd_party_dps_meters/

You’re allowed to ‘measure’ other people’s DPS if they’re in your party/squad but you can’t gear check/trait check etc.

If DPS meters weren’t around the toxic players would just use something else to exclude other players. At least DPS is a lot better tool to determine a player’s ability to complete the raid wing. Unlike LI which could have been earned in a raid wing that’s not the one their in so it hides a players inexperience. Unlike Achievement Points which could have been earned by Dailies and PvP and WvW which are not raid content at all. Or by gear pings which can be easily faked and a gear alone does not mean a player is any good.

More benefit comes to the game from having the DPS meter than without.

fishball.7204:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Besides which, ANet hasn’t allowed people to use a DPS meter to measure someone else’s DPS; they allowed people to use a personal DPS meter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5sw8ey/arenanets_official_stance_on_3rd_party_dps_meters/

You’re allowed to ‘measure’ other people’s DPS if they’re in your party/squad but you can’t gear check/trait check etc.

From the Reddit thread, Chris Cleary stated:

We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.

How can you measure someone else’s DPS without gathering data from somewhere other than your own game client?

Clever DPS “meters” can estimate DPS for other members of the party by making reasonable assumptions, but it remains a “reasonable guess”.

Some DPS meters allow for others to aggregate data from participating players’ clients. That wouldn’t apply to the OP’s concern, which is someone measuring their DPS directly without their permission.

i think its a bad thing for me adleast am full cleric build and my dps is low
so am sure no1 wants you duo the lack off dps i can do

my dps mostly comes from my pets ad least i can heal good and my pet can tank allot to
duo my beast master

but yea like most mmorpg partys only want upper dps to kill everything fast if not your out

its pretty sad how mmorpg turn out players don’t enjoy it anymore
its all about rush ad fast ad possible and that it

but if you have a good guild that don’t ask anything from you only if you come and enjoy it then your good

Genlog.4983:

i think its a bad thing for me adleast am full cleric build and my dps is low
so am sure no1 wants you duo the lack off dps i can do

my dps mostly comes from my pets ad least i can heal good and my pet can tank allot to
duo my beast master

but yea like most mmorpg partys only want upper dps to kill everything fast if not your out

its pretty sad how mmorpg turn out players don’t enjoy it anymore
its all about rush ad fast ad possible and that it

but if you have a good guild that don’t ask anything from you only if you come and enjoy it then your good

You do realize that for some people seeing how fast they can do it may be what’s fun about the content for them? This is harder to do in PUG’s but for static groups, this is what DPS meters allow them to do. Find out where their issue is so that they stand a chance of being able to correct it.

That some players may not have the 3 hours a non-meta group might take on a raid wing and they’d rather spend 30 minutes getting a good group to lower the risk of having a 3 hour run.

All the hate towards people who use dps meters is ridiculous speculation. You haven’t experienced it personally, but all raiders are these awful salty people? Throw calculator into everything you’ve said instead of dps meter. A calculator can’t surveil upon you like a dps meter can, but both are still tools.

I don’t approve of anyone insulting anyone over lack of dps, and that’s also ridiculous. However, that doesn’t give you any rights in a group you didn’t make yourself. It’s a kitten move to kick someone over one bad run, but it’s the group they put together.

People are often waiting for someone to open a training run in raids.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

How can you measure someone else’s DPS without gathering data from somewhere other than your own game client?

Clever DPS “meters” can estimate DPS for other members of the party by making reasonable assumptions, but it remains a “reasonable guess”.

Some DPS meters allow for others to aggregate data from participating players’ clients. That wouldn’t apply to the OP’s concern, which is someone measuring their DPS directly without their permission.

I thought it was in the thread but apparently not. Here’s the thing I found on arcdps’ website

http://www.deltaconnected.com/arcdps/squadparty.png

Chriscleary said it’s ok to have combat data collected if in same party/squad.

The people arguing that dps meters are kicking people from groups and being elitist to people are the same people that believe spoons make people fat and that cars drive themselves drunk. They’re blaming a tool for someone’s actions. I also find it funny how the argument is “I don’t like dps meters, so YOU shouldn’t be able to use them”.

This thread is actually kittening hilarious.

It is impossible to remove all of the tools, trinkets, reasons or anything else that people might use as an excuse to be a kitten on the internet where they can hide behind their anonymity.
Honestly, half of the stuff that we do not have in this game or didn’t have for a long time was withheld from us for this very reason. Basically, to keep others from getting grieved over it, even though it would have been a great addition to the game for various reasons.

I understand the fear to be judged unfairly and be deemed as subpar to others for no reason or even to be judged fairly and be told something you already knew.
Still, how far are we willing to go to protect everyone? Should we be allowed to see signets on others? Should we be allowed to see a ranger’s pet? Should we be allowed to see the weapons people are using? Should we be able to see someone’s class or even see them at all and how they are dodging, etc?

Besides, this might be an unpopular opinion on these forums, but protecting players goes both ways. I am actually a fan of gear inspection and DPS meters, especially meters like these which show everything from buffs, to heals, to times you got downed, etc.
People can be kittens if someone does not perform to a degree they can not even reach themselves as much as others are totally fine with pretending to be everything they are absolutely not.

Find people who only care about the result. Winning is all that matters, dunno why people obsess over DPS and whatnot. If you win, you win. There’s no trophies for scoring higher DPS.

Miku.6297:

Amaimon.7823:

You see it as elitist, I see it as a helpful tool to see whether or not I’m pulling my own weight in a raid, not to judge others. I don’t see it as an elitist at all, not in the slightest. From my point of view has only done good for me and my friends.

So you or your friends have never used it to exclude or judge others that are not in your “group of friends” based on what numbers they are pulling?

Cant speak for his group. I can however speak for mine.

My group runs multiple DPS Meters and we’ve only kicked one person due to lack of DPS. That being said we didn’t need a DPS Meter to tell that is damage was awful. (Longbow 1 Pew Pew Guard). That player was just plain disrespectful. He didn’t even try to do something else so he got kicked.

If you pull your weight (e.g. Now and execute mechanics properly) and at least try to do some DPS we are totally fine with you staying in our group. We have enough DPS without you to not fail encounters based on DPS.
However, we will kick you if you fail mechanics repeatedly or just have a jack kitten stupid attitude towards us or other players in our squad.

We do use our meters for self improvement only.

I have to wonder where people find those groups. I do raid every day (not every day with my static group) and have never seen such a behavior. Some people make it sound like every group is kicking someone for low DPS. Climax much.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

The people arguing that dps meters are kicking people from groups and being elitist to people are the same people that believe spoons make people fat and that cars drive themselves drunk.

More like the people that argue that you should keep guns away from general populace, because, while some people can use them responsibly, the damage caused by those that don’t is just too big.

My personal take on dps meters is that they are fine, if all in the squad agree to their use. They are best when used in static groups as a tool for self-improvement (and having a look at them, they are mightily useful here), but start causing problems as soon as they appear in pug groups. Because many of people there just aren’t responsible enough.

And even in static groups you need to know how to use them, because they can cause some real damage even if you didn’t have any bad intentions. My advice here is that, when used in training of new would-be raiders, unless you’re 100% sure of the reaction of your group, you should never show the results to anyone until that group starts performing on some satisfactory level.

Genlog.4983:

i think its a bad thing for me adleast am full cleric build and my dps is low
so am sure no1 wants you duo the lack off dps i can do

my dps mostly comes from my pets ad least i can heal good and my pet can tank allot to
duo my beast master

but yea like most mmorpg partys only want upper dps to kill everything fast if not your out

its pretty sad how mmorpg turn out players don’t enjoy it anymore
its all about rush ad fast ad possible and that it

but if you have a good guild that don’t ask anything from you only if you come and enjoy it then your good

Pet.. cleric gear?

You sound like a druid..
And no one gives a skritt what dps a druid gets. Their “damage” comes from party buffs raising allies damage output.

You should try taking tiger for group content though. They have that lovely fury buff on f2, which also helps group dps considerably.

thefinnster.6904:

simple question anyone know if theres a way to stop players from useing dps meters on me as i am fundamentaly against them so much so that im seriously thnking of quiting the game because i dont like being policed like this in my recreation time

If you do not have a dps-meter yourself, that shares ist data with other users of the same dps-meter, there is no allowed-way that other players could see your dps (with the expection of the test golem).

So, if someone kicks you because of your dps-numbers in his dps-meter: → Report him for botting

Wait, there is a dps meter that tells you the dps of members of your group without requiring them to install anything or know about it?

If so, someone shoot me the link! I would love to use this just to be able to compare my dps with the dps of my group to verify that I am adequately contributing.

Miku.6297:

Kerivek.5740:

The whole DPS meters cause toxicity thing is a fallacy. Meters are a tool and blaming the tool is not the answer. Well before DPS meters were a thing people still got insulted and/or kicked from groups for a perceived lack of skill, poor performance, unoptimized builds and a number of other reasons. Toxic players exist with or without DPS meters.

So you disagree that DPS meters could cause a player that others deem not “good” enough to be treated poorly/excluded etc?

While it’s true the mentality and attitude associated with toxic behavior is not created by DPS meters, the meter can be used as a tool to promote it.

Yes a DPS meter also has positive uses, I simply disagree that DPS meters are 100% innocent and do not cause or help create a toxic environment.

I understand that DPS meters can be used as a reason to kick someone. My point is with or without the meter…this happens and people find some sort of measuring tool. In my eyes…at least a DPS meter has some actual weight behind it(assuming accuracy) and puts real numbers to someone’s contribution as opposed to people just making assumptions about contribution without them.

Let’s say for example you enter a raid/fractal with an unorthodox/non-meta build. With meters you at least have the opportunity to show that you can still pull your weight with that build. Prior to meters a lot of people see non meta builds and just immediately assume that is the problem.

I don’t think meters create a toxic environment. While the tool can be used in a toxic way it can also be very helpful, and I believe the upside is greater than the downside. There is nothing wrong with seeing how much everyone contributes to a group. The main factor here is the people you are dealing with. DPS meters open a channel to help players improve themselves and find out where work needs to be done.

Icetea.3204:

I have to wonder where people find those groups. I do raid every day (not every day with my static group) and have never seen such a behavior. Some people make it sound like every group is kicking someone for low DPS. Climax much.

I think most people posting are aware SOME groups kick for low perceived performance. At the same time SOME groups don’t kick for it. Just because a poster talks about kicking and how it’s happened etc doesn’t mean they are saying every group does etc. Exaggerate much?

sevenDEADLY.5281:

The people arguing that dps meters are kicking people from groups and being elitist to people are the same people that believe spoons make people fat and that cars drive themselves drunk.

I don’t think any one is saying the DPS meter is doing the kicking… That would be creepy and sort of cool at the same time~ The meter could however be used to weigh in on the decision to kick someone (necissary or not). I have honestly never heard someone say spoons make people fat, I can’t imagine consuming enough spoons to warrant such a statement.

@nike, If that’s his decision it’s his choice to make. At the same time, the green light for DPS meters does show the general direction A-net is taking on this issue. If a consumer doesn’t like the direction the company is going. Not purchasing further services or products is a normal response.

Kerivek.5740, All I was pointing out is that DPS meters can lead to toxicity. They can also be used in positive methods. Like any other tool the morality of use is determined by the user and how they use it.

Miku.6297:

Icetea.3204:

I have to wonder where people find those groups. I do raid every day (not every day with my static group) and have never seen such a behavior. Some people make it sound like every group is kicking someone for low DPS. Climax much.

I think most people posting are aware SOME groups kick for low perceived performance. At the same time SOME groups don’t kick for it. Just because a poster talks about kicking and how it’s happened etc doesn’t mean they are saying every group does etc. Exaggerate much?

It sounds like it. Why even bother making a thread out of it if it only happend once or twice? Some people will be kittens. Doesnt matter the tool they use.

Icetea.3204:

It sounds like it. Why even bother making a thread out of it if it only happend once or twice? Some people will be kittens. Doesnt matter the tool they use.

When you talk or post something in person or online do you frequently say your point then say but that’s not always true? or not every time?

Something bothers someone they make a post about it stating their problem, it’s generally assumed you don’t need to say “not every time” constantly for people to be aware that just because it happened doesn’t mean you think it happens every time.

There are two types of dps meters out there. One shows the dps of everyone attacking the same boss, and usually shows bad results for other players.

The other one only shows the dps of other players using it, you can remove yourself from the active list by simply not using it.

I have no issue with the second version. You can join in and remove yourself at any point, you can see only other people who are also using it AND you get accurate results.

The other version is something I dislike. Not only it doesn’t give accurate results (use both you will see) but at the same time it spies on other players without their consent. And the worst part is that those guys using the faulty version can see my dps but I can’t see theirs for example, unless they use both tools which is unlikely.

A simple policy change that they do NOT approve of these kinds of meters should be enough.

Dps meters should be banned and anyone using them should be banned as well, dont turn this game in to wow.

Here we go… Yet another DPS meter post. I’ll just give my usual canned response: Want damage? 100‰ Berserker… This game does not have enough viable build diversity where such a tool would provide anything useful.

carabidus.6214:

Here we go… Yet another DPS meter post. I’ll just give my usual canned response: Want damage? 100‰ Berserker… This game does not have enough viable build diversity where such a tool would provide anything useful.

Condi engie and condi ranger currently among top dawg dps in end game raiding and fractals. But yeah… berserker… Can you share your time travelling secrets? I’m amazed you came to us all the way from 2013.

carabidus.6214:

This game does not have enough viable build diversity where such a tool would provide anything useful.

Most relevant statement, right here.

Add on that raids don’t need max DPS to complete or even to finish quickly, and I have to wonder why most people supporting meters even care, except to exclude “the bads”.

I can understand a rare few who actually want to push the envelope or those in static groups who have many iterations worth comparing against, but PUG-DPS? I can’t even entertain that seriously.

On the last few replies, I am personally a little bothered by the fact that warriors are only welcomed for their PS abilities. I mean, the very defenition of a berserker is that they should have top class DPS, and not mediocre DPS, thats what bothers me a little

Amaimon.7823:

On the last few replies, I am personally a little bothered by the fact that warriors are only welcomed for their PS abilities. I mean, the very defenition of a berserker is that they should have top class DPS, and not mediocre DPS, thats what bothers me a little

They do have top DPS, if I remember correct a pure DPS warrior pulls 31k. The problem is that it is yet another instance of 3 classes ruling raids (warrior, ranger, mesmer, you can just bring a party of those 3 classes and pretty much kill anything because the other classes bring nothing). I find that most people hate playing warrior so the reason you only see them brought in for PS is because you need 2 warriors rocking PS and finding more people that are willing to play warrior over another DPS class gets thin.

Miku.6297:

zealex.9410:

To answer your question no dps meters cannot be disabled on you but then calling dps meters as something that makes the game worst is a big mistake by itself

The meters can be used in good and bad ways. Saying DPS meters are something that makes the game only better or only worse is a big mistake.

They could be viewed as making aspects of the game better and worse.

On another note, whats the best DPS meter that shows DPS/damageincome/healingout/buff time etc? Mainly looking for something that shows all aspects of play not just DPS DPS DPS.

whats the main negative to a dps meter?

Amaimon.7823:

On the last few replies, I am personally a little bothered by the fact that warriors are only welcomed for their PS abilities. I mean, the very defenition of a berserker is that they should have top class DPS, and not mediocre DPS, thats what bothers me a little

no they dont have to be top dps just because of a name its about class dificulty buffs they provide etc since warr is a powerhouse in terms of buffs their dps is lower and no warr are not only welcome for their ps might stacking they are for their crappy power boost trait nice meme anet

If berserker should be top dps because of the name, chronos should just be able to skip time ahead until after you’ve killed the raid boss.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

If berserker should be top dps because of the name, chronos should just be able to skip time ahead until after you’ve killed the raid boss.

But they can! By joining the instance after the boss is killed!

zealex.9410:

whats the main negative to a dps meter?

Pretty much what’s been mentioned… The other potential issue DPS meters can cause (in terms of play style) is an extreme tunnel vision or focus on DPS and only DPS. There is more going on then just DPS.

example:Take time to heal someone, take time to do mechanics right, or just keep rolling up the DPS because I’m being monitored! Someone else can rev/heal and take care of that other stuff.

Miku.6297:

zealex.9410:

whats the main negative to a dps meter?

Pretty much what’s been mentioned… The other potential issue DPS meters can cause (in terms of play style) is an extreme tunnel vision or focus on DPS and only DPS. There is more going on then just DPS.

example:Take time to heal someone, take time to do mechanics right, or just keep rolling up the DPS because I’m being monitored! Someone else can rev/heal and take care of that other stuff.

So they ban DPS meters. Players will still be excluded from groups. And without DPS meters they’ll use things that are even less relevant to skill than DPS is.

Players who would exclude someone solely for a number on a DPS meter are the type who would exclude players for any number of reasons. Removing DPS meters will not make them suddenly accept anyone into their groups.

Jerks will be jerks. Why should the people who would not and do not abuse DPS meters be punished for the minority of players who would/do? And only because it may happen and no one has come in here saying that it’s actually happened to them?

Ummm ok, I was simply answering what Zealex posted.

As far as the “minority” of players who would/do, do you have any hard factual numbers or just your opinion? As far as being kicked from a group or raid based on DPS, do you honestly believe no one has been kicked based on DPS?

This post isn’t about banning dps meters or people using them. It’s about giving people the option to opt into being displayed on them or not. A-net has given the green light on them so that ship has sailed, lets keep on topic

Miku.6297:

Ummm ok, I was simply answering what Zealex posted.

As far as the “minority” of players who would/do, do you have any hard factual numbers or just your opinion? As far as being kicked from a group or raid based on DPS, do you honestly believe no one has been kicked based on DPS?

This post isn’t about banning dps meters or people using them. It’s about giving people the option to opt into being displayed on them or not. A-net has given the green light on them so that ship has sailed, lets keep on topic

And none of the legal DPS meters will give people exact DPS unless you’re using the same DPS meter. So it’s already opt-in.

And just because it was a reply to what someone else said, doesn’t mean others can’t respond to it.

I believe that most people aren’t jerks, only a minority are. I don’t assume any community is different until proven otherwise. It hasn’t been proven otherwise for this community. So the jerks who would kick solely for a number on a DPS meter are a minority.

Not to mention the lack of anyone saying that it’s happened to them leads me to believe that it isn’t the majority. Someone would have kicked someone who would have come running to the forums to talk about it by now if it was anything but the minority.

Right, I’m 100% good with responding to what others are saying. However your response should take into consideration the rest of the conversation. When you quote a user, that usually implies you are responding to the quoted post.

I have not been saying anything about banning dps meters or people using them. I’m simply saying they can be used for good or bad depending on the user.

I’m pretty sure someone stated there are a few that do actually give your squad/groups DPS opt in or not, they aren’t 100% accurate and can be a poor reflection, but I’m sure they will get better over time.

^^; so minority is pretty much just your opinion based on what you see/have seen.

Any way, what is the best opt in DPS meter floating around?

Miku.6297:

Right, I’m 100% good with responding to what others are saying. However your response should take into consideration the rest of the conversation. When you quote a user, that usually implies you are responding to the quoted post.

I have not been saying anything about banning dps meters or people using them. I’m simply saying they can be used for good or bad depending on the user.

I’m pretty sure someone stated there are a few that do actually give your squad/groups DPS opt in or not, they aren’t 100% accurate and can be a poor reflection, but I’m sure they will get better over time.

^^; so minority is pretty much just your opinion based on what you see/have seen.

Any way, what is the best opt in DPS meter floating around?

And there have been people asking for DPS meters to be banned in this thread. I apologize if my comment made you think that I thought you were one of them.

You claimed that people being jerks was a negative of DPS meters. If they would be jerks even without the DPS meters, how is that a negative of the DPS meter?

People make estimates of other people’s DPS all the time. Just not in numerical numbers and not necessarily anywhere near accurate either. High, low, non-existent, etc. Someone who would be noticeably lower on a DPS meter is likely making noticeable errors and would likely be estimated at low DPS by someone not using a DPS meter of any kind.

Seera.5916:

And there have been people asking for DPS meters to be banned in this thread. I apologize if my comment made you think that I thought you were one of them.

You claimed that people being jerks was a negative of DPS meters. If they would be jerks even without the DPS meters, how is that a negative of the DPS meter?

^^; You quoted me and then talked about banning dps meters. I figured you ment that in response to what I said. Sorry if I misunderstood.

I claimed people COULD use dps meters that way; it’s a possibility. Just the same way as they COULD not use them that way; also a possibility.

A DPS meter gives a provable measurement of ones performance. Which would be something that could be used in a negative manner. Yes jerks will be jerks, however some things can make said jerk feel justified, or even someone who normaly isn’t a jerk feel some what justified in acting in a said manner.

Which is why people are asking for an opt out. It’s worth noting; in my opinion an opt out function wouldn’t really help with said jerk… They would just jump on the person for opting out xD

Two things I’d like to add:

• As others have posted, “kicking someone over low DPS” is not behavior which specifically requires a DPS meter, paradoxical as that seems. It can also be done for LIs, for pinged gear, for achievement points. 2-3 years ago, the last option was the preferred way, if you didn’t have enough AP, you were “scrub trash”. I think by and large, I quite prefer something actually related to what I do in a fight to be used as an external metric to judge me by, instead of something as unrelated as achievement points. The key element however is that someone who wants to be an kitten will find a metric to be one with. No matter what you do. GW2 was a good example of that, not having DPS meters. People were just as toxic here, at least in the small subset of “I want to be as exclusive as possible in my groups”.
• arcdps doesn’t do anything magical to show you others DPS. The information is already there. In theory, if our brains were up to it, we could probably do it ourselves. That’s however also why it is inaccurate, because it relies on information present in the game client and cannot know whether it is missing some. Which is in turn why the author of BGDM opted to discard the info and only show anything related to oneself, doing the rest via a sync mechanics. But in either case both these DPS meters know or could know what someone next to you is doing. One just happens not to display it.

I have some problems with PLAYERS using DPS-meters AND misusing, misinterpreting, focussing on the wrong data and generally being idiots…

SO when running PUGs be intelligent. If you cannot do enough DPS break up the party.
Having a party with 2 minstrel chrono, 2 magi druids, an magi auramancer and ppl with bad rotations…. Move on…. except maybe on Cairn……
If DPS will allow you to kill the Boss within time: WHY BOTHER trying to figure out who pulls his weight and who doesn’t?
If you asked for an experienced party and ppl fail hard, give ’m 1 chance and then remove them, if they (fail to) trigger basic mechanics and kill the group OR troll, Kick ’m.

Do not however be elitist wannabee’s trying to show off your perfect rotations and be mad cause the 1st vg split is at 6:30 instead of 7:00 or be mad gorseval needs slow or no CC instead of ppl breaking it instantly….

I saw ppl talking about kicked magi’s druids or ppl whining about low dps from the tank. WHO cares? Their role focusses on something else!!

If ppl run mechanics and cannot DPS during that time do not be an idiot and criticize on somewhat lower DPS….
If they fullfill their roles and make it a nice 1st or second try be happy, if they need 2-3 tries to come together don’t be the spoilsport running away after 1st try… I’ve seen so many 100+ and 150+ LI parties fall apart cause some idiot needs to satisfy his personal only 1st kill vanity tick. Yes…. idiot. I do not have a different name for it.

This game is about finishing the content, instead of showing who’s the best cheeser… or the one most elitist with the fastest kick button… I have more respect for the ppl now within the 20-100 LI range then I have for the 350+ ppl…. Why? Cause the ppl who know their stuff tend to only care about fast finishes, not about speading the knowledge… when you do not want to run a 100 LI or lower PUG cause you think they’ll be bad you are showing signs of being elitist, nor do you help them improve…. And knowing this… when done ppl start whining they’ll have no content for the rest of the week… Sad ppl….

In the end yes this game can be about the fastest clear. If you want to persue this DO NOT DO SO in a PUG. The PUG will not be able to fully synergise in the 1,2, maybe 5 tries you need to kill the boss…

A guy with 80+ LI… I’ve been in 100+ LI parties for quite some time now….also by invitation. And I take pride in -allways- having spammed my actual LI’s. I can tell ppl spamming 100+ 150+ 250+ LI… and still being fakers…. all without DPS meters…

Seera.5916:

Miku.6297:

Right, I’m 100% good with responding to what others are saying. However your response should take into consideration the rest of the conversation. When you quote a user, that usually implies you are responding to the quoted post.

I have not been saying anything about banning dps meters or people using them. I’m simply saying they can be used for good or bad depending on the user.

I’m pretty sure someone stated there are a few that do actually give your squad/groups DPS opt in or not, they aren’t 100% accurate and can be a poor reflection, but I’m sure they will get better over time.

^^; so minority is pretty much just your opinion based on what you see/have seen.

Any way, what is the best opt in DPS meter floating around?

And there have been people asking for DPS meters to be banned in this thread. I apologize if my comment made you think that I thought you were one of them.

You claimed that people being jerks was a negative of DPS meters. If they would be jerks even without the DPS meters, how is that a negative of the DPS meter?

People make estimates of other people’s DPS all the time. Just not in numerical numbers and not necessarily anywhere near accurate either. High, low, non-existent, etc. Someone who would be noticeably lower on a DPS meter is likely making noticeable errors and would likely be estimated at low DPS by someone not using a DPS meter of any kind.

The problem with dps meters is that it focuses on 1 thing – dps. they are not used to evaluate altruistic behavior and they are not used to take into account stats which re a significant part of GW2 game player – boons, auras, rezzing, standing on circles of doom etc etc. Dps meters tend to be written and used by players and devs who have learned behavior from trinity based games – and they are fed with god-awful dps race style encounters which encourage the worst styles of play. Take the race element out of an encounter but make it wipe able, that’s a positive style of raiding that does not need dps-kitten and may possible end up with meters that are used in a better way.

As I used to tell everyone who would have similar issues with dungeon runners that required specific builds or classes or whatever, do a LFG where you specify no DPS meters, etc. There are plenty of players that think and feel as you do and with whom you can run with/raid with. I can see the value in DPS meters, but also hate them personally. Its a game. If I start caring that much about a game then it turns into a job and last I knew Anet wasn’t paying me to play their game.

I will never use dps meters. This is a game, I just want to have fun in my free time instead of counting and improving numbers. I feel sorry for people who only care about numbers. It’s their loss.

If they can’t see your DPS meter output, just lie about your DPS.

^—- and this is the feeling that I don’t like… If DPS meters can’t/won’t be used to negatively judge or exclude someone, why would anyone feel the need/desire to lie about it?

As I said even if you could opt out, it would just turn into a pressure game till it was turned on.

@mea. Some people actually enjoy the number game, pushing their totals as high as they can. It can be fun to see how well you can do, give it your absolute best, and/or problem solve the lack of DPS etc if the raid or group has trouble. It’s just an issue when those players force that style of “fun” or play on others that don’t feel that way. (the same is of course true the other way around as well)

Ideally with or without an opt in or out, groups/raids should just state if it will be a DPS monitored run or not.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

I have some problems with PLAYERS using DPS-meters AND misusing, misinterpreting, focussing on the wrong data and generally being idiots…

SO when running PUGs be intelligent. If you cannot do enough DPS break up the party.
Having a party with 2 minstrel chrono, 2 magi druids, an magi auramancer and ppl with bad rotations…. Move on…. except maybe on Cairn……
If DPS will allow you to kill the Boss within time: WHY BOTHER trying to figure out who pulls his weight and who doesn’t?
If you asked for an experienced party and ppl fail hard, give ’m 1 chance and then remove them, if they (fail to) trigger basic mechanics and kill the group OR troll, Kick ’m.

Do not however be elitist wannabee’s trying to show off your perfect rotations and be mad cause the 1st vg split is at 6:30 instead of 7:00 or be mad gorseval needs slow or no CC instead of ppl breaking it instantly….

I saw ppl talking about kicked magi’s druids or ppl whining about low dps from the tank. WHO cares? Their role focusses on something else!!

If ppl run mechanics and cannot DPS during that time do not be an idiot and criticize on somewhat lower DPS….
If they fullfill their roles and make it a nice 1st or second try be happy, if they need 2-3 tries to come together don’t be the spoilsport running away after 1st try… I’ve seen so many 100+ and 150+ LI parties fall apart cause some idiot needs to satisfy his personal only 1st kill vanity tick. Yes…. idiot. I do not have a different name for it.

This game is about finishing the content, instead of showing who’s the best cheeser… or the one most elitist with the fastest kick button… I have more respect for the ppl now within the 20-100 LI range then I have for the 350+ ppl…. Why? Cause the ppl who know their stuff tend to only care about fast finishes, not about speading the knowledge… when you do not want to run a 100 LI or lower PUG cause you think they’ll be bad you are showing signs of being elitist, nor do you help them improve…. And knowing this… when done ppl start whining they’ll have no content for the rest of the week… Sad ppl….

In the end yes this game can be about the fastest clear. If you want to persue this DO NOT DO SO in a PUG. The PUG will not be able to fully synergise in the 1,2, maybe 5 tries you need to kill the boss…

A guy with 80+ LI… I’ve been in 100+ LI parties for quite some time now….also by invitation. And I take pride in -allways- having spammed my actual LI’s. I can tell ppl spamming 100+ 150+ 250+ LI… and still being fakers…. all without DPS meters…

200% agree with your point of view.

Mea.5491:

I will never use dps meters. This is a game, I just want to have fun in my free time instead of counting and improving numbers. I feel sorry for people who only care about numbers. It’s their loss.

That’s incorrect… I use a dps meter and still play for fun.
For you the fun can be just play, for me is also play well. Because you know raid are some kind of challenge, and a dps meter is a tool for improve at doing that challenge.
And not only because the dps Number but actually because they show you things like, how much seaweedsalad bonus are you using, how much scholar bonus, how much GotL are you Providing to allies etc etc..
So at least for me, use a dps meter made me improve the quality of my gameplay, and also the quality of other teammates gameplay since often I use supportive classes.

I can say you the same thing also for a thing like sport.
You can do it Just for fun, without care how you do it.
Or you can take it like a challenge, and have fun trying to get better and be proud once you improved.

p.s.: even if I run a dps meter, that doesn’t display other DPS, i still never say nothing to other player of they like provide poor quickness, GotL or alacrity. Nor I say nothing if we fail because not enough DPS or because someone make mistake at doing mechanics.
If for me the group can get the kill, I try untill we do it or the group disband. If I think the group can’t do it, i Just leave without blame people

lucadiro.4519:

p.s.: even if I run a dps meter, that doesn’t display other DPS, i still never say nothing to other player of they like provide poor quickness, GotL or alacrity. Nor I say nothing if we fail because not enough DPS or because someone make mistake at doing mechanics.
If for me the group can get the kill, I try untill we do it or the group disband. If I think the group can’t do it, i Just leave without blame people

100% Support this attitude!