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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

@Chris -

I know I saw it mentioned in passing but those ore nodes which could get added to Home Instances? I feel sort of odd seeing them available after saying they could be added to a housing segment . . . and now there’s a teaser of sorts.

It could have been more interesting to quest/scavenge/earn them . . . and assorted other nodes, like we have been doing in the Living Story so far. (Love my Candy Corn node, even if it sticks out like a sore thumb in Hoelbrak.)

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: juno.1840

juno.1840

There’s a lot of information in this topic and I get worried when I hear about “summary topics”. I’d rather ANet create summaries from this original topic so good ideas don’t get filtered out in someone else’s summary before it even reaches ANet’s hands. It’s a bit irrational on my end, but I’ve seen worse happen.

Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”

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Posted by: darkace.8925

darkace.8925

There’s a lot of information in this topic and I get worried when I hear about “summary topics”. I’d rather ANet create summaries from this original topic so good ideas don’t get filtered out in someone else’s summary before it even reaches ANet’s hands. It’s a bit irrational on my end, but I’ve seen worse happen.

Irrational or not, I’m with you. I’d feel much more comfortable if a Red Swath handled the summary.

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

@Chris -

I know I saw it mentioned in passing but those ore nodes which could get added to Home Instances? I feel sort of odd seeing them available after saying they could be added to a housing segment . . . and now there’s a teaser of sorts.

It could have been more interesting to quest/scavenge/earn them . . . and assorted other nodes, like we have been doing in the Living Story so far. (Love my Candy Corn node, even if it sticks out like a sore thumb in Hoelbrak.)

There’s nothing other than floorspace limiting the addition of more/duplicate harvesting nodes.

Maybe progression through the orders can open up Rich Nodes . Or some sort of Leather and Cloth nodes that make sense in a civilized space but not outdoors (likely “harvested” with salvage kits per usual practice). And a multi-tier herb garden is still pretty much a must (thought likely another gem store item).

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: StriderShinryu.6923

StriderShinryu.6923

A bit disappointed in the proposal to be honest.

I think it’s very.. empty. I know we’re not going to be getting any details, but to simply put forward “housing” and “guild housing” as frontline goals doesn’t sit well with me given that we don’t really know anything about them. Given this proposal, housing could be anything from picking our favourite spot in the open world and building a custom designed log cabin down to a single prefab room that automatically fills up with gaudy trophies in pre selected locations. We don’t know what Housing means to ANet, and we don’t know what’s actually possible in the engine. I would imagine if we did know at least some of that, we’d see far less (and, potentially, far more) interest in the subject based on that knowledge.

I’m also disappointed to see Orders and their involvement get such short shrift considering that they pop up in a fairly large percentage of posts in this thread. Yes, there’s mention of “factions” but again, no actual details on what that means. Are we talking races, class based factions, orders, area based factions, Scarlet fanboy factions? None of the above? All of the above? It also seems a bit of a throwaway point to me and not something to be made real note of given how it’s positioned in the proposal.

On the positive side, I like seeing additional commentary on being able to earn and achieve based on however the player chooses to play the game. GW2 would be a better place if we never saw another “you have to craft to do this or too bad” moment.

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Posted by: darkace.8925

darkace.8925

And a multi-tier herb garden is still pretty much a must (thought likely another gem store item).

I’d love a garden system tied to Player Housing. I’ve said before, my system would be as simplistic as purchasing and planting seeds (different types tied to different regions produce different harvests) a few real life days later. Different seed types from different regions would produce different (randomly determined) harvests. So an Ascalonian Herb Seed might produce Chili Peppers or Dill while a Krytan Seed might produce Yams or Sesame Seeds.

Easy enough to implement, and for once players with alts could actually put those alts to good use. I wouldn’t tie such a simple system to the gem shop, though; I don’t feel that’s the kind of thing that would be locked behind a pay wall.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

, Scarlet fanboy factions?

Scarlet fans vs Traherne fans vs Marjory fans.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: darkace.8925

darkace.8925

I’m also disappointed to see Orders and their involvement get such short shrift considering that they pop up in a fairly large percentage of posts in this thread. Yes, there’s mention of “factions” but again, no actual details on what that means. Are we talking races, class based factions, orders, area based factions, Scarlet fanboy factions? None of the above? All of the above? It also seems a bit of a throwaway point to me and not something to be made real note of given how it’s positioned in the proposal.

I assumed he was referring to the Orders when he said “factions”. If not, then I too feel the Orders came up in this thread too often to be left out of the proposal.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

@Chris -

I know I saw it mentioned in passing but those ore nodes which could get added to Home Instances? I feel sort of odd seeing them available after saying they could be added to a housing segment . . . and now there’s a teaser of sorts.

It could have been more interesting to quest/scavenge/earn them . . . and assorted other nodes, like we have been doing in the Living Story so far. (Love my Candy Corn node, even if it sticks out like a sore thumb in Hoelbrak.)

There’s nothing other than floorspace limiting the addition of more/duplicate harvesting nodes.

Maybe progression through the orders can open up Rich Nodes . Or some sort of Leather and Cloth nodes that make sense in a civilized space but not outdoors (likely “harvested” with salvage kits per usual practice). And a multi-tier herb garden is still pretty much a must (thought likely another gem store item).

As long as they do not put them in temporary stuff like they did before (or in the gem-store). I like the idea os such nodes but people who did not get them in living story can now have a real disadvantage and they can not get it anymore. Maybe never.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

I’m also disappointed to see Orders and their involvement get such short shrift considering that they pop up in a fairly large percentage of posts in this thread. Yes, there’s mention of “factions” but again, no actual details on what that means. Are we talking races, class based factions, orders, area based factions, Scarlet fanboy factions? None of the above? All of the above? It also seems a bit of a throwaway point to me and not something to be made real note of given how it’s positioned in the proposal.

I assumed he was referring to the Orders when he said “factions”. If not, then I too feel the Orders came up in this thread too often to be left out of the proposal.

I had and still have the feeling that the LS is going in the direction of factions. So maybe he referred to factions because he knows thats coming Just speculating here.

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Posted by: The Lost Witch.7601

The Lost Witch.7601

Perhaps you should give some details as to what a proposal means Chris?


My impression as to what the proposal is:

The proposal is an attempt to collect the most important and interesting ideas from the thread in one post.

Which is important for the following reasons:

  • Players can check if their ideas have landed, or if they may have been overlooked.
  • Devs get an overview of everything that has been mentioned here. Which makes it easier to remember some ideas and view the bigger picture.
  • Summarizing forces the writer to sharpen the thoughts. Which results in clean, though broad ideas that are more easy for everyone to understand.
  • It can be used to check if everyone (or almost everyone) agrees with the ideas mentioned. (This is vital!)

As for what the proposal is not:

  • It is not a promise.
  • It is not a complete summary.
  • It is not a guideline.
  • It is not just a wish.
  • It is not a substitute for the entire thread.

I imagine the proposal to be on the wall at the arenanet office, and at quite a few desks. And in addition to that, there are probably a lot of notes flying around regarding ideas mentioned in this thread.


Which brings me to another point:

Chris, in the future, please do not rename threads. (This one was split into vertical and horizontal through the name) It breaks all the links. And when the thread is closed, the links can’t be fixed anymore. Renaming the thread again to it’s original title would break all the links made after the first name change.

The summaries that have been made could be of use to find important ideas that you and other devs may remember. But they rely on links. So please do not rename the CDI’s.

(If you are willing to reopen the vertical progression thread I could probably fix the links. Just let me know if you think it would help and when it would be open.)

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Posted by: Arghore.8340

Arghore.8340

Not sure if this thread has been referred too already (65 pages is a lot to read ) … so i will just refer to it in this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/suggestions/Reinvent-The-Quest/first#post3423683

This suggestion made by me roughly 2 weeks ago, suggests ‘reinventing the quest’. You can read the details of the suggestion by following the link … so, while this suggestion isn’t really a way to have horizontal progression for a character, it is a format this progression (or at least part of it) can be achieved.

We are peace, we are war. We are how we treat each other and nothing more…
25 okt 2014 – PinkDay in LA

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

Not sure if this thread has been referred too already (65 pages is a lot to read ) … so i will just refer to it in this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/suggestions/Reinvent-The-Quest/first#post3423683

This suggestion made by me roughly 2 weeks ago, suggests ‘reinventing the quest’. You can read the details of the suggestion by following the link … so, while this suggestion isn’t really a way to have horizontal progression for a character, it is a format this progression (or at least part of it) can be achieved.

We did touch the more traditional quest in this thread but it’s mainly if you use them as a way to help to explore the world (what is one good way to use quest, mainly the chained quest) that it fits in with horizontal progression.

There has also been some talk about using the more traditional quest to tell about the lore and while you can combine that with explore quest that goal by itself is maybe more something for an RP CDI that has also been suggested.

So in my option it does fit partly.

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Posted by: Voramoz.6790

Voramoz.6790

I have to vote an emphatic “no” on subclasses. Yes I know it’s GW1 heritage, to whit I say “go play GW1 then.”

The trait line system offers enough horizontal progression by unlocking new traits that pertain to new weapons and play styles. Subclasses make things more convoluted and upset hard worked balance (PVP WVW). How would there be subclasses when class is fate as it were?

The rest seems awesome though. Scion Storm said it best. The game has become “get your stuff and go.” It needs to become “get your stuff and come hang out.”

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Posted by: Yoh.8469

Yoh.8469

I have a Ranger Pet Proposal if you’d like to hear it.
Thou mine is more about how to fix it, rather then anything with RP potential, maybe I’ll touch on that too.

The core problem with Rangers is Pet AI, it just isn’t reliable.
And since fixing the AI is pretty much off the table, how about we work around it instead?

Give the ranger more direct commands over the pet, so that we can have it act they way that we want at any given moment. Currently we only have two commands:
Attack and Return. Not a whole lot to work with.

-
Instead, drop both F2 (pet skill) and F4 (pet swap) for two new commands.

The F2 Pet Skill is just a glorified utility skill, that isn’t all that useful most of the time.
Nothing that the pet couldn’t just cast itself as part of it skill bar.

Where as the F4 Pet Swap also isn’t really all the necessary either. I think you’d be better off with a single pet, just buffed up a little more then they are currently, with perhaps an expanded skill bar that is more representative of the species of wild critter they came from. For example, any wolf or wild canine species can summon allies, not just the hyena.

-

The two new commands I have in mind would be F2 Guard, functions just like the shout, minus the protection and stealth.
And F4, which is a variable command depending on what mode it is in.
Basically rolling in the current Shouts, into the command system itself.

Currently we just have two modes, Guard and Passive. I think there should be three modes:

  • Aggressive: Functions just like guard does now, attacks anything that attacks you or that you attack. Doesn’t care for self preservation.
  • Defensive: Rework this so that it is a middle ground. It will attack what you attack, but not when attacked itself. Will try to preserve itself over attack when hit by AOE damage. ie, it will get out of it.
  • Passive: Basically the same it is now.

The F4 will change to reflect whatever mode the pet is in.

  • Aggressive: Sic em This commands your pet to run faster and catch a target, using any knock downs or snares it might have. For some pets this might include skills that Reveal the enemy. (namely, pets have a skill that this command activates, one for each mode)
  • Defensive: Protect Me, commands the pet to use whatever defensive/support abilities it has.
  • Passive: Search and Rescue, commands the pet to revive any nearby allies, or if should you go down, to immediately begin reviving you.

Naturally this command has it’s own cooldown to prevent spamming.
The shouts themselves could be reworked entirely into your ordinary shouts that give boons to allies, like the Warrior and Guardian shouts do.

-
With this, the Ranger would have much more direct control over their pet, supplementing for what it’s AI lacks.

In addition to this, expand the range of pets to include other animals such as Skales, Alpine Shelk, and Griffons. By having only one pet instead of two, you could have these creatures act much more like their wild counterpart, having similar skill sets.
ie, Skales cast Regenerate, Shelks with use stealth, and Griffons will fly/dive.

The strength I think should be around that of a veteran mob, more so with high Beastmastery since that entails that the pet be your weapon, rather then just an addition to it.

-

As to the capturing process, something more active the just finding a juvenile version would be nice. Such as having to find a nest of theirs, defeat a veteran mob then have a small mini event where you have to chase the pup and catch it before it gets away.
Or you could have different events depending on the species.
Like Deer you have to commune with nature, and try to get near them without startling them, which would cause them to run away, etc.

Something would be nice, but I think that working around the AI is the more important step, everything else is extra.

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

By the way moving forward (and we can discuss this in the CDI Process Evolution topic) I would like you guys to nominate someone to build the Proposal on behalf of us all.

Due to the Red Swash on the left it seems some are getting confused with Promise vs. Proposal and I just think it would be healthy to do it this way anyway.

Chris

I think if anyone steps up to assume such a mantle, they’re going to need a chance to run their “Proposal Post” by you in private just to check formatting and intent (not content so much – autonomous and unbiased collation is sort of the point). It would be very easy to seriously impair the desired document just because we are unfamiliar with how your team looks at proposals. We have two that you’ve written to use as models to work from… but still. A daunting task for anyone who is seriously thinking it through.

I follow why you see a need for it… That last web-article was somewhat cringe-worthy in making the leap to ‘this IS what’s coming out next from GW2’, but its an important enough service that it could be rather cruelly throwing someone in the deep end without a little back-stage coaching .

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Whoah, I’m busy for a few days and can’t keep up, and then it takes hours to catch up…

On Mounts:

Despite what VOLKON is saying, I think there is certainly a lot of lore precedence for mounts. Horses are known to exist in the world. We’ve had siege devourers and junundu in GW1, and the Stone Summit dwarves had a variety of mounts including giant dolyaks, armoured ettins and ice drakes. Claiming that mounts “don’t fit the lore” is a flawed argument.

On the other hand, I really hate the WoW concept of mounts. It’s a fancy taxi that, because all combat in the game is balanced around fighting on foot, instantly disappears as soon as you enter combat. Because it’s purely a fancy taxi and a status symbol, the mounts available become over time increasingly farcical in nature.

Instead of a go-anywhere-as-long-as-you-don’t-get-hit taxi, I’d like to see mounts be something more like junundu and siege devourers in GW1 – a mount that grants additional combat options in a zone that was balanced on the assumption that these options were available. If they’re only available in zones that were built for them… this means they aren’t really a form of horizontal progression, nor are they something that’s going to speed up travel in existing zones, but they’re also not going to have the problems of mount trolling.

Still, imagine the potential of a cavalry battle between Seraph and players on one side and centaurs on the other across the plains of the Maguuma Wastes, with special cavalry versions of your profession’s existing weapon skills. Or spearheading an assault into the Crystal Desert with a charr tank, with most of your skills being determined by the tank but with enough of the skills available determined by your profession that driving the tank with different characters is still a different experience (which was one of the problems with the GW1 mounts – once you were in one, your profession largely didn’t matter). This has the potential to be awesome - particularly if there are sufficient disadvantages to being mounted that there is still incentive to fight as infantry instead.

No to the fancy taxi that disappears as soon as danger threatens. Yes to interesting new combat mechanics in zones that are designed with them in mind.

On Pets:

While ranger pets do have their problems, I don’t think introducing new pets is something that should be held hostage to some people’s ideas that the pet mechanic is entirely broken and nothing should be done with expanding it until it’s completely overhauled (which often seems to translate to “I just don’t like pets and want to play my ranger without them”). Personally, I want my gryphons and raptors already! :P

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Yulan.4069

Yulan.4069

I don’t think it has been discussed before, and while it’s still a crude opinion I don’t like the idea of missing the opportunity to throw this in here even though it’s pretty late:

I’d like to see more (useful) bundles in the game! I feel the mechanic of using environmental elements is very promising, if a bit lackluster right now. I love the idea of changing your skills according to the situation and I believe it could be used in a more strategic and intrinsic way.

The reason I’m pointing this in here is that while simple, it has the powerful effect of changing your gameplay significantly and the potential to be related to horizontal progression in some way.

I’ve seen some new bundles in the Edge of the Mists and that’s basically what I’m talking about. Something that you own the right to use and can change your whole skillbar so your character is now a new kind of beast.

If we had some kind of bundle storage, there could even be a system of unlocking/earning these bundles through various activities along the game and choosing which ones to bring to the battlefield.

Ah, the Scepter of Orr. You have taken a risk to deliver this. Now I shall return the favor.

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Posted by: Gulesave.5073

Gulesave.5073

Quick notes on animals:

  1. Mounts. Have you been inside that classroom-like chamber inside the Priory headquarters? Imagine that nonsense, but with animals instead of desks. As for horses, they did exist, but as far as we know they went extinct prior to GW1. Their presence in concept art for the current era is probably a simple mistake. And given the world’s advancement, riding a mount would be seen as archaic, used more for recreation than actual travel.
  2. Pets. Pet acquisition is a fitting, (if late), topic for this thread. However, as this CDI is about progression, I recommend that further discussion of any perceived problems with current mechanics or balance would do better in the Ranger subforum.
I should be writing.

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Posted by: Arghore.8340

Arghore.8340

In the ‘mechanics mistakes gw2 made’ thread, I just read I came across a suggestion I really like, and it pertains very much to horizontal progression. So even though it is not mine, and I read it on my way through the thread (so sorry I can not give credit, right away). Here it goes:

- Add extra utility skills into the trait lines, so besides the traits, spending points in a trait line unlocks extra defining skills, pertaining to that trait line.
the example was given that an engineer traiting into alchemy would unlock an extra potion, similar to f/e a necro that specs into minions unlocks an extra minion.

Not saying that this would have to be the way to increase the skill amount in order to foster horizontal progression, but it was certainly ‘a’ way to introduce extra skills into GW2 and do it in a way that makes the trait system a more distinguishable choice, and thus a ‘deeper’ investment.


@Devata, in my suggestions I try and leave the dev team some room for choice and creativity. My main concern with the request is, ‘well’, the lack of quests, not in the sense of how quests are done in games, but the quest as a way to convey a story. Now the PS was the main quest, but after that there is none. Only vigilant responses to acute issues… you may want to read the actual thread I linked to get the idea, as repeating everything here seems a bit over the top…

So let me agree then to what was likely said, and say that what I was hoping to get out of it is a number of chained quests leading the player through Tyria, with behind it either lore (for the durmand priory), intrigue (for the order of whispers), or brute force (for the vigilant).

I will ponder some more about other horizontal progression additions in my dream.. gn

We are peace, we are war. We are how we treat each other and nothing more…
25 okt 2014 – PinkDay in LA

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Posted by: Skrar.1250

Skrar.1250

I have a suggestion for potential subclassing implementation, I have a limited grasp on how a few of the main classes function still since I could not bring myself to enjoy them personally, but I have looked at the traits at the very least and thought about the values. Just throwing this out there.

My examples will be done for Ranger Primary, Elementalist Secondary, just to show a steady template for what I’m trying to say.

Traits
Trait-wise, I propose a similar system to gw1 attributes. The character who is choosing to subclass will not get access to the 5th traitline of the secondary, and the other 4 will mesh with the first 4 of the primary as a 70%/30% type relation. As follows:

Marksmanship/Fire:
+7 / +3 Power per point
+0.7% / +0.3% Condition Duration per point
(basically the same as before, since the stats are shared)

Skirmishing/Air:
+7 / +3 Precision per point
+0.7% / +0.3% Critical Damage per point
(basically the same as before, since the stats are shared)

Wilderness Survival/Earth:
+7 / +3 Toughness per point
+7 / +3 Condition Damage per point
(basically the same as before, since the stats are shared)

Nature Magic/Water:
+7 / +3 Vitality per point
+0.7% Boon Duration per point
+3 Healing Power per point

Beastmastery:
+10 Healing Power per point
+10 Pet Attribute per point

As far as the Adept/Master/Grandmaster trait choices goes, I propose being able to choose only 1 tier of that to purchase the subclass version for instead of primary (if you choose) to use the subclass’ traits from that tier. The 5th attribute stays that of the primary.

Skills

Not entirely sure how the potential new skill capture thing may work if implemented, but may not need to change much save maybe disallow the use of the 5th tier related skills of the secondary profession (like, no arcane skills (or attunement changing) for ranger/elementalist, or no pet skills (or ranger pets) for the reverse).

Weapon Skills

I personally would really like to be able to have some choice here. If the weapon is shared by both classes, allow the player to pick one of the skills associated from either set for each slot (including all the diff ones for attunement)? If not, have a set of skills separate to choose from associated with the secondary? Using my R/E example again, maybe implementing something as follows since my explanation is probably not sufficient.

Shortbow
Not shared by Elementalist
Choose 1 for each slot (exchangeable out of combat like utilities)

Skill 1
Crossfire: The regular ranger shortbow skill
Burning Arrow: Keeps burning active on target (less effective than the bleed stacks, but useful in certain situations)
Needling Shot: Fires at same speed as crossfire, but slightly faster if shot previous connected (like, 2 per second if not connecting, 3 per second if connecting)
Frost Bomb: Fires slow moving shots that explode to cause vulnerability and chill.
Ebon Hawk: Fire a homing shot that inflicts weakness if foe is attacking. (1 per second)

Skill 2
Poison Volley: Same as before.
Fire Bombs: Shoot 3 Fire Bombs that land at or around target and explode.
Poison Gas: Blow a cloud of poison forward to target.
Healing Stream: Fire random Ribbons of water at random nearby allies that heal.
Shard Nova: After 2 seconds, fire stone shards in an AoE that cause bleeding.

Skill 3
Quick Shot: Same as before.
Plasma Burst: Short range blast at target, if channeling, knockdown target.
Teleporting Shot: Teleport to targetted area. If intercepted, teleport to there.
Frost Walk: Fire a shot and slide backwards like quick shot, only, can ride across water surface for that distance.
Throw Dirt: Blind target for x seconds.

Skill 4
Crippling Shot: Same as before.
Fire Chains: Wrap target in fiery chains to cause burning, and cripple target.
Grappling Shot: Fire an arrow at target that pulls targeted foe to target location nearby.
Water Spray: Cone of water that lasts for x seconds keeping foe from moving toward you.
Stoning: Deals damage, and knocks foe down if weakened.

Skill 5
Concussion Shot: Same as before.
“Dance Monkey!”: Render foe immobile for x seconds firing flaming arrows underfoot.
Gust: Knockdown foe.
Frostform Pet: Pet gains chilling for x seconds and y amount of temporary vitality.
Kinetic Armour: Force a magical armour onto the foe, increasing their armour value by x, but slows them by 75% for y seconds.

**note, knockdown skills are low damage, with longer recharge.

thoughts?

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Posted by: Essence Snow.3194

Essence Snow.3194

By the way moving forward (and we can discuss this in the CDI Process Evolution topic) I would like you guys to nominate someone to build the Proposal on behalf of us all.

Due to the Red Swash on the left it seems some are getting confused with Promise vs. Proposal and I just think it would be healthy to do it this way anyway.

Chris

Tom Sawyer management at it’s finest! Brilliant!

Serenity now~Insanity later

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

By the way moving forward (and we can discuss this in the CDI Process Evolution topic) I would like you guys to nominate someone to build the Proposal on behalf of us all.

Due to the Red Swash on the left it seems some are getting confused with Promise vs. Proposal and I just think it would be healthy to do it this way anyway.

Chris

Tom Sawyer management at it’s finest! Brilliant!

Given this is an actual method of management which works, what’s wrong with it?

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: Essence Snow.3194

Essence Snow.3194

Never said anything was. Pretty sure I said it was smart.

Serenity now~Insanity later

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

Never said anything was. Pretty sure I said it was smart.

My apologies, it’s hard to tell around here when “brilliant” is used with sarcasm or not. Especially directed at the staff.

I’ll fine myself 50 Silk :P

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: StriderShinryu.6923

StriderShinryu.6923

By the way moving forward (and we can discuss this in the CDI Process Evolution topic) I would like you guys to nominate someone to build the Proposal on behalf of us all.

Due to the Red Swash on the left it seems some are getting confused with Promise vs. Proposal and I just think it would be healthy to do it this way anyway.

Chris

Ouch.. not a fan of this at all. There already appears to be some favour in terms of who gets responses and who doesn’t (not that it isn’t already warranted). I’d hate to see how things turn out if one person gets elected as the spokesperson and other just as worthy nominees don’t. This sort of system is just asking for trouble.

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Posted by: Essence Snow.3194

Essence Snow.3194

Never said anything was. Pretty sure I said it was smart.

My apologies, it’s hard to tell around here when “brilliant” is used with sarcasm or not. Especially directed at the staff.

I’ll fine myself 50 Silk :P

I’ve been corrupted by that Guinness commercial ever since it came out. (don’t think I’m allowed to link it due to subject matter and branding)

Serenity now~Insanity later

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Posted by: Gulesave.5073

Gulesave.5073

Quick reminder: this thread is now focused on narrowing down guidelines for a general proposal to the development team. Once that is done in the next day or so, the whole thread will be closed and stickied.

For any topics that have been bumped out—such as subclasses, fractal levels, skin locker, &c.—it is recommendable to find or open a new thread in the relevant sub-forum.

I should be writing.

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Posted by: Chrispy.5641

Chrispy.5641

  1. Pets. Pet acquisition is a fitting, (if late), topic for this thread. However, as this CDI is about progression, I recommend that further discussion of any perceived problems with current mechanics or balance would do better in the Ranger subforum.

I’m working on/starting a thread with a focus on Ranger pets, that I will be specifically posting in the Ranger Forum Early Tomorrow Morning. In it so far are details that cover the following:::

  • Horizontal Progression (pet aquisition and looks, skill selection among pets)
  • Vertical Progression (pet stat scaling with Rare to Exotic and Ascended gear)
  • Pet AI stuffs…. (Not my expertise, but its pet related)
  • Pet Skills/ Shouts/ Signet/ Trait balance and suggestions (what works, what doesn;t, what could be done in the future, etc.)

If Ranger Players agree with everything, then I will post all the balance related stuff in the subforum that handles it, and the rest of the proposal in a future CDI thread. The problem is that many Rangers have just stopped posting and caring because of the lack of red in the Ranger subforums, so there wont be many replies there unless it a “I hate Anet” Thread (which it won’t be!) . personally, I see that as an utterly Lame excuse to stop caring, and I will be creating that thread tomorrow even if one person replies.

I am posting this here so that way anyone who is interested in Rangers, by even the smallest amount, to go there tomorrow and read that thread. Even if you Hate Rangers and everything they stand for, go read that thread tomorrow anyways!

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Posted by: Morrigan.2809

Morrigan.2809

By the way moving forward (and we can discuss this in the CDI Process Evolution topic) I would like you guys to nominate someone to build the Proposal on behalf of us all.

Due to the Red Swash on the left it seems some are getting confused with Promise vs. Proposal and I just think it would be healthy to do it this way anyway.

Chris

Mm Chris I am not sure I like the idea of a member of the CDI building the proposal.

Not only is it a lot of work- I can already see the cries and tears and pressure that person will be under.

I might be really cynical but if people cannot see the difference between a proposal and a promise now, can you imagine the backlash for the poor person who builds the proposal? Regardless of what happens in the future.

that red swatch is helpful because it is a bit like a full stop at the end of a sentence. -it gives everyone a pause and refocuses the discussion.

Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

By the way moving forward (and we can discuss this in the CDI Process Evolution topic) I would like you guys to nominate someone to build the Proposal on behalf of us all.

Due to the Red Swash on the left it seems some are getting confused with Promise vs. Proposal and I just think it would be healthy to do it this way anyway.

Chris

Mm Chris I am not sure I like the idea of a member of the CDI building the proposal.

Not only is it a lot of work- I can already see the cries and tears and pressure that person will be under.

I might be really cynical but if people cannot see the difference between a proposal and a promise now, can you imagine the backlash for the poor person who builds the proposal? Regardless of what happens in the future.

that red swatch is helpful because it is a bit like a full stop at the end of a sentence. -it gives everyone a pause and refocuses the discussion.

It’ll help if you try to explain exactly what you mean by your request, Chris, are you asking one of us players to compile the Proposal for the CDI team to look at, or are you saying you want to get another red-name to get the CDI together, or . . .

Because if you want one of us? Some of the people compiling summaries are probably the best choice since they’ve been good and unbiased about it.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: Chris Whiteside.6102

Previous

Chris Whiteside.6102

Studio Design Director

Next

Perhaps you should give some details as to what a proposal means Chris?


My impression as to what the proposal is:

The proposal is an attempt to collect the most important and interesting ideas from the thread in one post.

Which is important for the following reasons:

  • Players can check if their ideas have landed, or if they may have been overlooked.
  • Devs get an overview of everything that has been mentioned here. Which makes it easier to remember some ideas and view the bigger picture.
  • Summarizing forces the writer to sharpen the thoughts. Which results in clean, though broad ideas that are more easy for everyone to understand.
  • It can be used to check if everyone (or almost everyone) agrees with the ideas mentioned. (This is vital!)

As for what the proposal is not:

  • It is not a promise.
  • It is not a complete summary.
  • It is not a guideline.
  • It is not just a wish.
  • It is not a substitute for the entire thread.

I imagine the proposal to be on the wall at the arenanet office, and at quite a few desks. And in addition to that, there are probably a lot of notes flying around regarding ideas mentioned in this thread.


Which brings me to another point:

Chris, in the future, please do not rename threads. (This one was split into vertical and horizontal through the name) It breaks all the links. And when the thread is closed, the links can’t be fixed anymore. Renaming the thread again to it’s original title would break all the links made after the first name change.

The summaries that have been made could be of use to find important ideas that you and other devs may remember. But they rely on links. So please do not rename the CDI’s.

(If you are willing to reopen the vertical progression thread I could probably fix the links. Just let me know if you think it would help and when it would be open.)

Hi The Lost Witch,

I understand your frustration. However as far as I recall I didn’t change anything. I will look into this when i get into work tomorrow morning.

Chris

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Posted by: Chris Whiteside.6102

Previous

Chris Whiteside.6102

Studio Design Director

Next

By the way moving forward (and we can discuss this in the CDI Process Evolution topic) I would like you guys to nominate someone to build the Proposal on behalf of us all.

Due to the Red Swash on the left it seems some are getting confused with Promise vs. Proposal and I just think it would be healthy to do it this way anyway.

Chris

Ouch.. not a fan of this at all. There already appears to be some favour in terms of who gets responses and who doesn’t (not that it isn’t already warranted). I’d hate to see how things turn out if one person gets elected as the spokesperson and other just as worthy nominees don’t. This sort of system is just asking for trouble.

I understand. Let’s discuss it in the process evolution CDI and go from there and I will explain the full reasoning around it.

Chris

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Posted by: Chris Whiteside.6102

Previous

Chris Whiteside.6102

Studio Design Director

Next

Quick reminder: this thread is now focused on narrowing down guidelines for a general proposal to the development team. Once that is done in the next day or so, the whole thread will be closed and stickied.

For any topics that have been bumped out—such as subclasses, fractal levels, skin locker, &c.—it is recommendable to find or open a new thread in the relevant sub-forum.

+1

Chris

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Posted by: Chris Whiteside.6102

Previous

Chris Whiteside.6102

Studio Design Director

Next

Here is the proposal I believe we are making, please discuss and let me know if anything should be added or removed. Note many of us have read the thread internally and thus there has already been valuable impact.

Our Horizontal Progression Proposal

The Reward and Associated Journey

Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing (Customizable from rewards gained in the open world), Guild Halls (Customizable from mass play rewards) and Map Wide Meta events unlocked through Order progression (Leading to both individual and group rewards such as titles and skins)

Role Diversification: ‘Grail Quest’ (Personal rights of passage) style adventures through the open world (testing the player in combat, discovery, and puzzle solving) which others can engage in once the activities are activated which could reward the Hero with New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, and infusions.

Hero Recognition (Reward) is a by product of the above two types of Horizontal Progression leading to Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

Global Rule Proposal governing the above:

- Where possible use the above design paradigm to reinforce and evolve the existing world.
- Players should be able to have multiple methods of achieving ‘Grail Quests’, rather than a section of the journey being based on Jumping Puzzles and that alone for example.
-A reworked (cleaner) version of Signet of Capture would work very well for Role Diversification.
- Sub-classes will be discussed again in a CDI once Arena finishes its current balance work in regard to roles.
- QOL features such as a wardrobe should support this global design.
- QOL: More customization options regarding our armor and weapons. (Things that came up in this regard were: pattern dyes, texture options (other types of wood and different metal polishes), customizeable features like long sleeves vs short sleeves, emblem design.

Once we have discussed the proposal and the thread reaches conclusion we will sticky it and move onto CDI Process Evolution Phase 2.

Note this is the formulation of a collaborative proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of associated actions or schedule.

Thank you all so much for your hard work and your passion toward making GW2 awesome. This has been a really good CDI and I want to thank you on behalf of Arena for caring so much about the world we love.

Here is a write up about the current CDI from Anatoli at Massively:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/14/flameseeker-chronicles-taking-guild-wars-2-job-specialization-t/

Chris

Updated proposal.

Change Log

Terminology Change: Faction to Order.

Chris

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

@Chris

Looks good, don’t see anything to correct on it.

I’ll be working up something for the “subclass CDI” whenever it comes out. Any idea on what the next one is so I can start studying?

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: Chris Whiteside.6102

Previous

Chris Whiteside.6102

Studio Design Director

Next

@Chris

Looks good, don’t see anything to correct on it.

I’ll be working up something for the “subclass CDI” whenever it comes out. Any idea on what the next one is so I can start studying?

I think we should discuss that in the CDI Process Evolution Phase 2 which will start on Wednesday 22nd. Among other things we need to chat about what topics to discuss in the next CDIs and how to go about choosing them. I would personally like to have a week long PVE CDI on Fractals next (Running in conjunction with a PvP and WvW CDI) but we should discuss it as a group first.

Chris

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

@Chris

Looks good, don’t see anything to correct on it.

I’ll be working up something for the “subclass CDI” whenever it comes out. Any idea on what the next one is so I can start studying?

I think we should discuss that in the CDI Process Evolution Phase 2 which will start on Wednesday 22nd. Among other things we need to chat about what topics to discuss in the next CDIs and how to go about choosing them. I would personally like to have a week long PVE CDI on Fractals next (Running in conjunction with a PvP and WvW CDI) but we should discuss it as a group first.

Chris

On all those topics, I have no knowledge (PvP), limited knowledge (Fractals), or only amateur knowledge (WvW) so I’ll likely be quiet in whatever topic we wind up doing

See you on the 22nd for the discussion then, though. I’m off to go work some other ideas up.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

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Posted by: Chris Whiteside.6102

Previous

Chris Whiteside.6102

Studio Design Director

Next

@Chris

Looks good, don’t see anything to correct on it.

I’ll be working up something for the “subclass CDI” whenever it comes out. Any idea on what the next one is so I can start studying?

I think we should discuss that in the CDI Process Evolution Phase 2 which will start on Wednesday 22nd. Among other things we need to chat about what topics to discuss in the next CDIs and how to go about choosing them. I would personally like to have a week long PVE CDI on Fractals next (Running in conjunction with a PvP and WvW CDI) but we should discuss it as a group first.

Chris

On all those topics, I have no knowledge (PvP), limited knowledge (Fractals), or only amateur knowledge (WvW) so I’ll likely be quiet in whatever topic we wind up doing

See you on the 22nd for the discussion then, though. I’m off to go work some other ideas up.

Awesome, see you then Tobias. And I am pretty sure that any CDI member at this point would be a benefit to any CDI topic moving forward.

Chris

(edited by Chris Whiteside.6102)

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Posted by: Randall.7306

Randall.7306

One area I found interesting and it seems is not reflected in the proposal is to investigate a change in sigils/runes, making them collectable/unlockable and working as dyes do, so it allows for more customization.

In general, it may be worded as thinking in customization options than affect mechanics + QOL instead of just looks. In a way like the improvement in the dye system that is GW2 when compared to GW1

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Posted by: Caerulei.7159

Caerulei.7159

@Chris
Everything in your first post is extremely encouraging and exciting. I only have one vital thing that should be added (and it may have been mentioned in the past 65 pages). From housing to grail quests, these all need to be steeped somehow in lore, and they need to add to the overall picture of the world, telling the stories of areas, races, people, organisations, even if only in brief. Also I would recommend at least some of the these grail quests chain. I think the quest format is perfect for GW2, marrying the co-operation encouraging mechanics, with classic MMO storytelling would be fantastic, and would make the world feel even more vibrant and exciting.

Also, if there are multiple ways for obtaining the reward, for example multiple different grail quests towards the same goal, after earning the reward the other quests ought to still be rewarding with lore and the typical event rewards.

So much that is coming down the pipes for GW2 is exciting! The game is now truly how ideally it would have been at launch and now for the next year I look forward to it becoming even more amazing!

Encharrneer of first Foundation then Chronicles of Tyria.

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Posted by: Yoh.8469

Yoh.8469

  1. Pets. Pet acquisition is a fitting, (if late), topic for this thread. However, as this CDI is about progression, I recommend that further discussion of any perceived problems with current mechanics or balance would do better in the Ranger subforum.

I’m working on/starting a thread with a focus on Ranger pets, that I will be specifically posting in the Ranger Forum Early Tomorrow Morning. In it so far are details that cover the following:::

  • Horizontal Progression (pet aquisition and looks, skill selection among pets)
  • Vertical Progression (pet stat scaling with Rare to Exotic and Ascended gear)
  • Pet AI stuffs…. (Not my expertise, but its pet related)
  • Pet Skills/ Shouts/ Signet/ Trait balance and suggestions (what works, what doesn;t, what could be done in the future, etc.)

If Ranger Players agree with everything, then I will post all the balance related stuff in the subforum that handles it, and the rest of the proposal in a future CDI thread. The problem is that many Rangers have just stopped posting and caring because of the lack of red in the Ranger subforums, so there wont be many replies there unless it a “I hate Anet” Thread (which it won’t be!) . personally, I see that as an utterly Lame excuse to stop caring, and I will be creating that thread tomorrow even if one person replies.

I am posting this here so that way anyone who is interested in Rangers, by even the smallest amount, to go there tomorrow and read that thread. Even if you Hate Rangers and everything they stand for, go read that thread tomorrow anyways!

I’ll look it up then.
I have a soft spot in my heart for the Ranger, mostly because it gets so much crap from people. There are some elements of it, like it’s weapons, that I love to bits.
But it is ultimately let down by shoddy pet mechanics.

Well, that and Arenanet really don’t seem to be in too much of a hurry to fix it.
(thou I think fixing the AI is basically impossible at this point, there are work arounds, such as my post from earlier for example.)

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Posted by: D I V A.6018

D I V A.6018

I insist on asking once more: Will additional weapon skills to choose from be in this proposal or not?

D I V A

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Posted by: The Lost Witch.7601

The Lost Witch.7601

Hi The Lost Witch,

I understand your frustration. However as far as I recall I didn’t change anything. I will look into this when i get into work tomorrow morning.

Chris

Maybe one of the mods renamed it. The thread title used to be: CDI-Character-Progression and is now CDI-Character-Progression-Vertical. Which makes a lot of sense, since it cleans up the mess of creating a seperate topic on a similar issue, with the risk of people responding to the same thing in two threads. (Having one vertical and one horizontal is clearer than having one general and one horizontal.)

It just has the downside of breaking the links. (The links could be fixed by adding -Vertical in the url, but it can’t be done here because a closed thread doesn’t allow us to edit.)

(edited by The Lost Witch.7601)

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Posted by: Patrikan Habaton.2548

Patrikan Habaton.2548

This Thread used to start with a post about Progression and fractal reset. It used to have been said by Chris that he will answer this question back in 2013 over and over again. But it seems to have been forgotten in 2014 wich is just a shame.
so once more:

Any update on fractal reset?

first scale 81 fractals

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Posted by: VOLKON.1290

VOLKON.1290

This Thread used to start with a post about Progression and fractal reset. It used to have been said by Chris that he will answer this question back in 2013 over and over again. But it seems to have been forgotten in 2014 wich is just a shame.
so once more:

Any update on fractal reset?

Look up a few posts to Chris’ remarks.

#TeamJadeQuarry

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

Here is the proposal I believe we are making, please discuss and let me know if anything should be added or removed.

Several Questions:

Do you want to us to actively gather QoL changes proposed/discovered/refined in this thread as part of this proposal? Many of them serve to showcase progress along horizontal goals such as collecting mini-pets leading to a mini-pet slot to facilitate their display. I see a couple of them in the proposal now, but that section is far from comprehensive.

What is the desired level of detail for the discussion points of the proposal and should we assume the team has already done a cursory scan of this thread? In other words how much should we care about the specifics of our proposals being reflected in the proposal document? For example while I’m happy the essence of The New Masters has been incorporated, some of the nuances like ensuring that all five player races receive similar representation among the NPCs used to mediate the Journeys have been lost in translation . Would it be better for me to pull those kinds of details out as bullet points and re-present them?

((On some levels I’m concerned how much brainsweat we may have wasted exploring the fine details if the team will only see a summary of a summary of our contributions…))

Thank you for any insights you can share.

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: VOLKON.1290

VOLKON.1290

I’m going to toss a new idea in here even though the proposal is already out there because… well, because I just thought of it… sorry Chris. It may seem a little strange (and feels a little strange to me to be honest) but it feels like a potential horizontal progression path…

Right now with the Living Story we’re seeing a changing of the guard as far as the heroes of Tyria go. Destiny’s Edge is settled back into non-guild, non-adventurer life with some influence and we’re seeing the latest quintet of Braham, Rox, Marjory, Kasmeer and soon the new Asura who seems about to become significant as well. To me, this could be the beginning of a new guild similar to Destiny’s Edge. I think that I think it would be interesting if, through the Living Story, players could also become a part of that guild and somehow through their actions and accomplishments in the LS progress along a path to possible rewards, unlocks, etc.

Conceptually it’s still a bit vague, I just thought of it, but possibly there could be skills or traits unlocked, unique weapon or armor skins, minipets, items to display in a housing environment (guild emblem or crest for example), etc.

It’s a fledgling idea, but there you go.

#TeamJadeQuarry

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Posted by: Conski Deshan.2057

Conski Deshan.2057

Just some changes I’d propose.

Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing (Customizable from rewards gained in the open world), Guild Halls (Customizable from mass play rewards) and Map Wide Meta events unlocked through Order progression (Leading to both individual and group rewards such as titles and skins)

I’d modify that to include instanced activities having unique rewards (fractals, Dungeons, PvP) for your house otherwise a huge amount of a players time wouldn’t be generating rewards.
-Each dungeon has 3 themed drops (1 token buyable, 1 drop-able , 1 chest drop-able)
-Fractals each fractal has a themed drop, and pristine/relics can be used to buy a verity of themed items, with each 10 levels unlocking more.
-Pvp, rank vendors now have an item or two each.

Role Diversification: ‘Grail Quest’ (Personal rights of passage) style adventures through the open world (testing the player in combat, discovery, and puzzle solving) which others can engage in once the activities are activated which could reward the Hero with New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, and infusions.

And items for your house.

Hero Recognition (Reward) is a by product of the above two types of Horizontal Progression leading to Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

With regard to how a player plays the game, fractals get fractal rewards , jp’s jp rewards. A person who only pvp’s does not get access to the same rewards as a person who only fractals, A person who does every activity has access to a much wider verity of rewards dependent on their skill.

- Players should be able to have multiple methods of achieving ‘Grail Quests’, rather than a section of the journey being based on Jumping Puzzles and that alone for example.
Chris

*Methods of equal difficulty, if one is complete the mad kings clocktower, the other do arah p4 the 3rd cannot be spend 50 WvW BoH.

additional global rule:
-Items are account bound and cannot be traded to maintain the value of the individuals effort.

[RoF] and [BL] guild leader
11x level 80’s 80+ Titles 2600+ skins , still a long way to go.

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Posted by: Patrikan Habaton.2548

Patrikan Habaton.2548

This Thread used to start with a post about Progression and fractal reset. It used to have been said by Chris that he will answer this question back in 2013 over and over again. But it seems to have been forgotten in 2014 wich is just a shame.
so once more:

Any update on fractal reset?

Look up a few posts to Chris’ remarks.

I missed that shame on me.

first scale 81 fractals