Guild Wars 2

Well Chris, I’m glad you like my scenarios. I hope you’ll get well soon!

Here are two more:

The branded ooze

A fragile weapon

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Nike.2631:

Since I rather enjoyed the team being turned into Charr or Asura in certain fractals, lets take it up a notch – fractals where the team is turned into once race AND assigned a specific racial elite for the duration of the fractal – with the bosses of the fractal having specific vulnerabilities to that elite.

I would like to see a Sylvari fractal, where you help the firstborn.

That would rock.

Add an encounter where everyone can drop their seed mortars and it just tears the minor critters to pieces while you beat down the main enemy.

The Norn equivalent would be the battle where Owl was lost to Jormag. If that doesn’t resonate through the souls of Norn everywhere until it is recreated in the Mists, I don’t know what would be…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

titanlectro.5029:

Just a quick procedural question.

When will this CDI thread cycle end, and when will the next thread to discuss the CDI process start?

That a good question. I am really enjoying the current conversation and ideas so I think until at least Wednesday next week and then the process evolution will follow shortly after.

Roughly two weeks then. With CDIs a bit more in the public eye compared to over the holidays, that’s seeming more and more like a sound window of opportunity.

I am going to be afk for a few days from tomorrow morning as I will be in hospital but as soon as I start feeling better and more awake I will catch up again on the thread.

Ooof. Rest up. And as always, thank you for posting a note saying you’ll be stepping out for a bit. It helps calm our nerves .

((Don’t eat the lime Jell-O while you’re on the inside. Just don’t .))

Nike.2631:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

titanlectro.5029:

Just a quick procedural question.

When will this CDI thread cycle end, and when will the next thread to discuss the CDI process start?

That a good question. I am really enjoying the current conversation and ideas so I think until at least Wednesday next week and then the process evolution will follow shortly after.

Roughly two weeks then. With CDIs a bit more in the public eye compared to over the holidays, that’s seeming more and more like a sound window of opportunity.

I am going to be afk for a few days from tomorrow morning as I will be in hospital but as soon as I start feeling better and more awake I will catch up again on the thread.

Ooof. Rest up. And as always, thank you for posting a note saying you’ll be stepping out for a bit. It helps calm our nerves .

((Don’t eat the lime Jell-O while you’re on the inside. Just don’t .))

Having just left a 4 day stay in the hospital….

I LOVED THE LIME-JELL-O!! Best thing they had. Oh and Chris ALWAYS ask for the salt and pepper packets (they don’t give you them unless you ask). Everything is way too bland otherwise.

My only suggestion would be making party scaling dungeons where You can go in alone, with 2,3,4 or 5 player. Depending on party size there would be different number of mobs, their strenght and reward. For instance if party of 5 would get 50 rewart tokens ( plus tokens from drop) and rare item per run per day. 2 ppl party would get 20 reward tokens (plus tokens from drop while less drop chance than with full size party)and one item where chance of obtaining rare one would be 30 or so %. This would make some dungeons possible for certain ppl since not everyone is in guild and searching for full pt for certain dungeons can be a pain. This way everyone even solo players can farm for certain items even when it can take them 5 times longer than normal. I personally would be really happy from this kind of solution since I’m not in any kind of guild and not joining any anytime soon, and doing dungeons like arah are quite impossible without waiting hour or 2 to join party where some ppl know what to do, or not flaiming on others for not knowing what to do

The Lost Witch.7601:

Well Chris, I’m glad you like my scenarios. I hope you’ll get well soon!

Here are two more:

The branded ooze

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Background setting:

A massive mirror-like plains in the desert, branded, shining bright as it reflects the sun.

The encounter:

A branded ooze with mirrors so sharp they reflect half the damage back on its attackers. It’ll force players to look for a new balance on offense and defense. This would also be a big plus for condition users. It is of course not just sitting there taking damage, it’s mirrors are razor sharp and cause bleeding. Not to mention the burning that builds up when the sun is not blocked by the clouds.

Strategies pushed in this encounter:

Healing, vitality, condition damage and condition removal.

A fragile weapon

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Background setting:

A part of the underworld that is completely dark.

The encounter:

To light up the darkness, a crystal needs to be charged. But as it is charging up, we can see a shadow sneaking up on us in the dim light. This Aatxe is extremely tough, the main goal it has however, is to crack that crystal. If left alone, it’ll creep up to the crystal and shatter it instantly as it is about 10% charged, though it can also strike at nearby players. One strike is enough to destroy the crystal. Then you’ll have to get a new one somewhere in the darkness. So it is vital that the monster is slowed, immobilized, pushed back or otherwise held from progressing towards the crystal.

Another strategy would be to protect the crystal by interrupting the attacks or blocking them. Or perhaps both are necessary.
Once the crystal is fully charged the creature is blasted away and the darkness is cleared. At higher levels multiple creatures may approach, or they might even have new moves. A leap or a projectile attack for example.

Strategies pushed in this encounter:

Immobilize, blinds, slows, area denial, interrupts, aegis, push/pull and knockdown.

I see I should have thrown more specifics in my posts :P Just wasn’t going to since I prefer to start vague after the last CDI I participated in and then build up

I’ve seen this proposed before, so i’ll just say that i approve the idea of putting some of reworked GW1 missions (before hitting me with whatever you have, i know that’s GW2 and NOT GW1, if i’m suggesting it, it’s only because the Lore of GW1 is amazing imo) or something related to the DoA. I would love to see something about the elder races, like Jotuns, when the Elder Dragons rised for the first time.

Can we please avoid turning fractals into a living story portal. Its supposed to be endgame content for those of us who like challenging content. Adding lore is fine but I dont think it should be the main focus of fractals. Lore and rolling are not important for the future of fractals. Rewards, balance and challenge are what will decide whether fractals remains popular.

Many of the people asking for lore are players that barely step foot in fractals and if they got what they wanted id bet my socks off they would still barely set foot in fractals. Plus you would drive more regular fractal players away if you keep tailoring to these players needs. The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Feel like a Veteran Fractal

This is a fractal that is pretty rare and random. It resets your Progress back 20 Levels

Feel like a Pioneer Fractal

This is an extremly rare Encounter that can only come up on scale 51+ it will take your highest fractal Level and reset it back to (highest Level -51scales). This way People can experience experiences that was only available for a short time:)

Without wanting to sound rude, but your persistent ranting over the Fractal Reset starts to become very annoying. It has in my opinion no place in this CDI as it has nothing to do with the topic of the CDI and keeping on ranting and making sarcastic postings, like this here won’t change anything at all about the situation…

Get finally over it, that there are sometimes changes in games, that are required to do, to make a game in something better for everyone and not just only the Elitists.

Have you ever thought about it for a single second, why there isn’t alot of responses to the Fractal Reset from any Devs here?
Theres no need to compensate anything for anyone here.

Anet should and could use their time and ressources for something better in regard of Fractals, than to waste their time with any compensations for some Elitists that QQ non stop about their progress being cut down for the overall improvement of the Fractals for everybody.

What do you even expect from ANet to do at all?
If ANet would do anything here, I can just predict only, that it would create an even huger hate storm regarding not received compensations for tons of other things that people haven’t got in the past, if ANet would start with any compensations for things like your personal problems here with the Fractal Reset.

This here is the correct thread for you!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/fractured/Merged-Fractal-level-reset-is-equity-wiped-Discuss/first

Please refrain from keeping on derailing the CDI with your permanent Fractal Reset rants.
——

@ Spoj

Fractals can and should be designed for multiple different player types, not only those that think like you that Fractals should be Endgame Content only.
This CDI is all about Fractal EVOLUTION

Evolution means, that the gameplay concept of Fractals should evolve and get developed further into something, that can make fun for as many different target groups of players as possible.

Fractals can be just both – a place in the game for challenge junkies for that hard game content can’t be hard enough, but also for lore junkies, who just love to experience more of the game’s lore.

@Orpheal: you do realize that thread is locked, and had zero dev responses anyway, right? Great place for “discussion.” Anyway we’re using another thread for this in this forum now since we were asked to by Chris.

@Orpheal

It really cant though. Why is that most players sit around in open world all the time? Because dungeons and fractals are too hard for them or they dont enjoy instanced group content. It makes no sense to put excessive amounts of lore in an area where the players who like challenging instanced content is dont care about it. And the players that want that lore would barely ever experience it. They would visit fractals once to get their lore fix and then never visit again. You cannot infect every aspect of the game with the wants of casual players. It doesnt work. You shouldnt lock away lore in an area of the game that many players who enjoy lore will not visit.

You can put lore into fractals, I dont mind that. But if it ruins replayability and brings down the challenge then im not going to be happy.

Spoj The Second.7680:

@Orpheal

It really cant though. Why is that most players sit around in open world all the time? Because dungeons and fractals are too hard for them or they dont enjoy instanced group content. It makes no sense to put excessive amounts of lore in an area where the players who like challenging instanced content is dont care about it. And the players that want that lore would barely ever experience it. They would visit fractals once to get their lore fix and then never visit again. You cannot infect every aspect of the game with the wants of casual players. It doesnt work. You shouldnt lock away lore in an area of the game that many players who enjoy lore will not visit.

You can put lore into fractals, I dont mind that. But if it ruins replayability and brings down the challenge then im not going to be happy.

Sorry Spoj but I can’t agree with your elitist intentions. It’s good that casuals will finally get some content.

Spoj The Second.7680:

The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

Quoted for truth ! Lore can be nice, but the most important thing if you want fractals to stay active is replayability, and for this you need balance, rewards, and challenge.

Can we get a story mode of the wurm? As well as giving it a bit more background.

Wethospu.6437:

Spoj The Second.7680:

@Orpheal

It really cant though. Why is that most players sit around in open world all the time? Because dungeons and fractals are too hard for them or they dont enjoy instanced group content. It makes no sense to put excessive amounts of lore in an area where the players who like challenging instanced content is dont care about it. And the players that want that lore would barely ever experience it. They would visit fractals once to get their lore fix and then never visit again. You cannot infect every aspect of the game with the wants of casual players. It doesnt work. You shouldnt lock away lore in an area of the game that many players who enjoy lore will not visit.

You can put lore into fractals, I dont mind that. But if it ruins replayability and brings down the challenge then im not going to be happy.

Sorry Spoj but I can’t agree with your elitist intentions. It’s good that casuals will finally get some content.

This are no elitist intentions and he is right. Fractals is about the Chalenge. Thats why you have progress in fractals with lvls or agony res.

Everyone is happy about new content. But not everything released is content just because it is released. Fractal runner will not play a fractal over and over again for the story. In fractals people see the story first and second time and after this they dont care anymore and go back to livingstory zergmode or are Fractalsplayers which care bout competive gameplay like how can do the fractal in best way, how far can go, what class needed, builds, progress in gear/lvl ….. and so on.

Just add some new story fractals will bring nothing more than some people write about in forum for a week and after this noone care anymore.

Golden Rule: GAMEPLAY > Presentation

And before i forget lore + Story is ok in Fractals when presented in the right way like this fractal with this Giant (/bow archievement) but its more than annoying when have to watch some NPC talk same crap over and over again.

How i posted before i would like to see some more Progress

thx

Spoj The Second.7680:

@Orpheal

It really cant though. Why is that most players sit around in open world all the time? Because dungeons and fractals are too hard for them or they dont enjoy instanced group content. It makes no sense to put excessive amounts of lore in an area where the players who like challenging instanced content is dont care about it. And the players that want that lore would barely ever experience it. They would visit fractals once to get their lore fix and then never visit again. You cannot infect every aspect of the game with the wants of casual players. It doesnt work. You shouldnt lock away lore in an area of the game that many players who enjoy lore will not visit.

You can put lore into fractals, I dont mind that. But if it ruins replayability and brings down the challenge then im not going to be happy.

At that point I would just play high level Chess. What is the point of having the Fractals of the Mists be set in any time period if not to use it for lore? That is why it’s there Spoj. It’s there because ArenaNet can use it as a tool to tell any story for any era be it past, present, or future. You are missing the point of the Fractals if you don’t want them to have stories.

Spoj The Second.7680:

You can put lore into fractals, I dont mind that. But if it ruins replayability and brings down the challenge then im not going to be happy.

I can agree with this. The reason why lore is brought up so often in this thread is probably not because players desire a lot of cutscenes and flavorful content. It is because fractals offers a place where stuff can happen that lore-lovers would otherwise never be able to see. (Like events from the past)

Iason Evan.3806:

Spoj The Second.7680:

@Orpheal

It really cant though. Why is that most players sit around in open world all the time? Because dungeons and fractals are too hard for them or they dont enjoy instanced group content. It makes no sense to put excessive amounts of lore in an area where the players who like challenging instanced content is dont care about it. And the players that want that lore would barely ever experience it. They would visit fractals once to get their lore fix and then never visit again. You cannot infect every aspect of the game with the wants of casual players. It doesnt work. You shouldnt lock away lore in an area of the game that many players who enjoy lore will not visit.

You can put lore into fractals, I dont mind that. But if it ruins replayability and brings down the challenge then im not going to be happy.

At that point I would just play high level Chess. What is the point of having the Fractals of the Mists be set in any time period if not to use it for lore? That is why it’s there Spoj. It’s there because ArenaNet can use it as a tool to tell any story for any era be it past, present, or future. You are missing the point of the Fractals if you don’t want them to have stories.

I might insert myself in the middle. I very much want Fractals to tell lore and stories, but we must also be respectful of HOW they do so.

Fractal lore is “through a teleporter darkly,” so to speak. It’s not canon. It’s slightly off from reality.

This is important! We want stories and background and curious things… we (or at least I) don’t want long cutscenes, unnecessary stops and starts, and time/completion-gating as part of it.

I can see how Scarlet’s appearance in Thaumanova starts to push people the wrong way. While I don’t think that particular dialogue is too much, I agree with spoj that it needs to be done carefully.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

I have a few questions for the thread. Sorry I’m a bit late (though I have been reading)!

Snip about Instabilities.

As a personal anecdote, getting from 30 back to 50, it was fun seeing what each new instability would be, but only for the first instance. There were very few Instabilities that encouraged a line of thinking that “we want to go back and do this instability again,” in part because of the design of the instabilities themselves, mostly because that would require lowering the Fractal level we play at. I think a really important thing to keep in mind is that when there’s a tiered reward structure (different Fractal levels) players are automatically going to go for the highest level reward with the least impactful instability. Where it stands now, players consistently run level 49 over and over because it has the maximum tier of rewards, and an essentially negligible instability. Your gathered assumptions are pretty well-on, and I think GW1 was lesson enough the environmental effects are always the most preferable for of challenge. This is especially important to note in GW2, that stat modifiers are the absolute worst because stats are tied to difficult-to-acquire gear. Unfortunately, in not following GW1’s legacy, tying stats to armor and making maximum tier armors (exotics and ascendeds) more difficult to obtain than a simple stat swap or cheap vendor trip, means that players dedicate themselves to one stat spread and it can’t be disrupted without seriously throwing a wrench in their cosmetic and stat preferences. This is part of why I heavily advocate allowing ascended tier armor to be able to switch stats like legendaries, because then it would potentially allow for stat-based alterations, since players could alter their specs accordingly.

On the subject of disliked instabilities, I think a universal “no” is anything which directly contradicts the intended mechanics of the game. I know a lot of people hate 43 because it’s difficult. I like the challenge, but I hated 43 for a fundamental design reason; it directly contradicts the intended point of the game with no practical solution. You have to attack to kill things, and you can’t kill things by not attacking. When the only solution to not die is to not attack, you’re forcing people to not play the game. That’s design error basics. Another big “no” is artificially gating players. 40 and 50 are both guilty of this because they require you to have more AR than is actually necessary. Although you’ll have difficulty with the boss fractals, levels 41-49 can be done with 45 AR (since agony is typically only applied in 3-hit stacks). 40, however, applies constant agony, which means that you’re required to have the necessary 55AR to complete it. That artificially forces players to have more AR than they actually need. Bad.

On a more positive note, I think my favorite instability was the lightning that stuns you at random intervals. It’s an environmental effect, it has a readable tell, and it’s significant enough that you have to play around it, but not insignificant enough that it can be ignored. It has counterplay. That’s good design.

Some other things: Personally, I’d much rather have one new Fractal than thirty new instabilities. Also, a bit aside the point, but I have to take a small gripe:

They might have been more appealing and/or made more sense had we been able to implement to full plan.

Why was the full plan not able to be implemented? As a general concern I worry this is the fault of the two-week-release schedule. There was another thread a while back that stated that the two week plan is never there to edge in quantity over quality, yet I see statements like this which seems to give the perspective that a lot of content is simply thrown out, unfinished, or not able to be fully tested in order to meet deadlines. That is absolutely sacrificing quality in order to get a product or feature shipped, and with something like Fractals (hell, with pretty much anything in the game) nothing should ever be put out unpolished. “When it’s ready” was the theme of GW2 for a long time before release, and I think despite that ideal, a lot of players agree the game itself was released unfinished. I don’t like to see post-launch content also being released without an utmost level of care and design consideration. I know as designers there’s not always a level of control over being forced into deadlines or other constraints, but I think on the whole Fractals, and indeed most of the game itself would benefit highly from a more sincere initiative to make sure content is well designed, polished, and tested as a release standard, rather than being forced to conform to a two-week cadence.

This is a long post, so I’ll address the other two points (about difficulty/progression and randomness) in another post.

I look at Fractals as a means for the Dev team to play. They do not have to follow lore exactly, it doesn’t even really have to make sense. Fractals are kind of an open sandbox for the dev team and I think they should embrace that….make some truly cool and unique fractals.

Its all about replayability and fun with fractals.

Examples of some interesting things that could be done with fractals: (remember, you can get wild).

A falling fractal: You’re falling, dodge the floating islands on your way down or go splat. Make sure you have a ranged weapon equipped since you will need to shoot at wyverns and eagles that are swooping in at you. Final fight is against a dragon which you have to destroy before successfully landing yourself in a pool of water.

A timed lava fractal. You are taking constant damage since you are in a volcano, run like heck to the other side while dodging the falling rocks. Make sure you grab the healing spheres as you go (provided by Dessa to help) to keep your health up…defeat the destroyer on the other end for an achievement and an extra chest (difficult to do with the constant lava damage).

I’ve listed others before (utilizing zephyrite skills, low-gravity fractal, etc etc.)

Something that comes up every time I get the ascalon fractal is the issue of the veteran agro. Please for the love of god change it back to what it used to be. No one minded needing to stack on the end boss until one of the vets was hit to get them to attack him. Right now, clearing out the area where the ritual needs to take place is a pain because when you pull one group all of a sudden your allied vets go Leeroy Jenkins – aka YOLO – mode and agro the rest of the area. This often wipes the party at least once or twice depending on what builds they are running.

Asami.3572:

Something that comes up every time I get the ascalon fractal is the issue of the veteran agro. Please for the love of god change it back to what it used to be. No one minded needing to stack on the end boss until one of the vets was hit to get them to attack him. Right now, clearing out the area where the ritual needs to take place is a pain because when you pull one group all of a sudden your allied vets go Leeroy Jenkins – aka YOLO – mode and agro the rest of the area. This often wipes the party at least once or twice depending on what builds they are running.

^^^ so much this… lower levels it isn’t as bad cause the mobs dont have as much health or hit as hard, but on level 49 this fractal can easily take 30 minutes just to properly pull and kill each group section by section while hoping to god the vets dont agro into the siege and die.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Note: Just got back from hospital and going to bed.

There is such a thing as being too dedicated to the CDI, Chris. Get some rest! We’ll catch up next week.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Spoj The Second.7680:

The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

Quoted for truth ! Lore can be nice, but the most important thing if you want fractals to stay active is replayability, and for this you need balance, rewards, and challenge.

Lore is an important part of the fractals and will continue to be. Replayability, balance, rewards and challenge in no way exclude the ability to continue to tell exciting and meaningful stories in Fractals.

Chris

Note: Just got back from hospital and going to bed.

Got to agree with chris here, lore and reward/challenge are not mutually exclusive. First you have to realize fractals is not just about being 50, its about finding the difficulty you lile. Some people do 10-16 mostly, others stay in the 20s etc.

Now about lore/stories, they could make it a seperate mode, or they have the stories be told without stopping, Npcs who are doing their own thing, narators, the fractal operator, the events that just happen, etc.

As for replayability for lore, the key might be to tie little pieces of lore to events that don’t always happen. (Even things that just happen to npcs on the side) then the replayability is finding all the lore clues and events, all perfectly ignorable by people with other concerns.

Lore will enhance the experience rather than be the reason for playing. It’s often the “cool” or “wow” factor of the instance. The gameplay itself – ie mechanics, challenge, thats the reason to keep playing.

Combining great lore and having solid replay value from core game mechanics – that is where the sweet spot lies.

And I loved the falling fractal idea btw!!!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Spoj The Second.7680:

The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

Quoted for truth ! Lore can be nice, but the most important thing if you want fractals to stay active is replayability, and for this you need balance, rewards, and challenge.

Lore is an important part of the fractals and will continue to be. Replayability, balance, rewards and challenge in no way exclude the ability to continue to tell exciting and meaningful stories in Fractals.

Chris

I didn’t mean you had to throw lore away and only focus on the gameplay and replayability. Of course, if you manage to get both great gameplay and lore, it’s the best. However, if you have to focus on only one, gameplay should be prioritized over lore.
A dungeon with great gameplay, through balance of the maps, rewards, .., will get played over and over again by players, even if the lore component is lacking. A dungeon with great lore but gameplay issues will only be played once or twice, and most of the players will then move on to other aspects of the game.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Spoj The Second.7680:

The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

Quoted for truth ! Lore can be nice, but the most important thing if you want fractals to stay active is replayability, and for this you need balance, rewards, and challenge.

Lore is an important part of the fractals and will continue to be. Replayability, balance, rewards and challenge in no way exclude the ability to continue to tell exciting and meaningful stories in Fractals.

Chris

Note: Just got back from hospital and going to bed.

Hope you feel well.
Side Note: My laptop must have missed you, because it stopped working from the day you went in, until the day you came out. Let’s not do that again, ok?

=P

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Lore is an important part of the fractals and will continue to be. Replayability, balance, rewards and challenge in no way exclude the ability to continue to tell exciting and meaningful stories in Fractals.

Chris

Note: Just got back from hospital and going to bed.

If you continue to put unskippable cutscenes/dialogues to justify lore it does exclude a large portion of replayability. And since a guy from cutscenes department told us they would now include all cutscenes in the form of unskippable dialogues it doesn’t look bright. Watching a cutscene 100 times is not exactly a defintion of fun.

haviz.1340:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Lore is an important part of the fractals and will continue to be. Replayability, balance, rewards and challenge in no way exclude the ability to continue to tell exciting and meaningful stories in Fractals.

Chris

Note: Just got back from hospital and going to bed.

If you continue to put unskippable cutscenes/dialogues to justify lore it does exclude a large portion of replayability. And since a guy from cutscenes department told us they would now include all cutscenes in the form of unskippable dialogues it doesn’t look bright. Watching a cutscene 100 times is not exactly a defintion of fun.

i think he just meant they arent using the old cutscene engine anymore. They can just have npcs talking that you can walk past/ignore. Or have people talking while you play like desha during the story fractal for thaumanova. Scarlet button press scene is uneccasry though, its short but annoying

And a few more scenarios:

The greenhouse effect

Reclaiming the bloodstone

phys.7689:

i think he just meant they arent using the old cutscene engine anymore. They can just have npcs talking that you can walk past/ignore. Or have people talking while you play like desha during the story fractal for thaumanova. Scarlet button press scene is uneccasry though, its short but annoying

Old cutscenes were skippable, dialogues are not. And if you have to endure the whole dialogues, that’s just painful.

haviz.1340:

phys.7689:

i think he just meant they arent using the old cutscene engine anymore. They can just have npcs talking that you can walk past/ignore. Or have people talking while you play like desha during the story fractal for thaumanova. Scarlet button press scene is uneccasry though, its short but annoying

Old cutscenes were skippable, dialogues are not. And if you have to endure the whole dialogues, that’s just painful.

yeah, they dont have to make them impede progress
think like conversations in towns or dynamic events where they are talking but you can run past them.

phys.7689:

haviz.1340:

phys.7689:

i think he just meant they arent using the old cutscene engine anymore. They can just have npcs talking that you can walk past/ignore. Or have people talking while you play like desha during the story fractal for thaumanova. Scarlet button press scene is uneccasry though, its short but annoying

Old cutscenes were skippable, dialogues are not. And if you have to endure the whole dialogues, that’s just painful.

yeah, they dont have to make them impede progress
think like conversations in towns or dynamic events where they are talking but you can run past them.

Or the text still shows up on your chat box so you can read while you fight or review it later. Actually, could you folks at ANet please help by making ambient chatter appear in the chat window and be filter-able?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Spoj The Second.7680:

The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

Quoted for truth ! Lore can be nice, but the most important thing if you want fractals to stay active is replayability, and for this you need balance, rewards, and challenge.

Lore is an important part of the fractals and will continue to be. Replayability, balance, rewards and challenge in no way exclude the ability to continue to tell exciting and meaningful stories in Fractals.

Chris

Note: Just got back from hospital and going to bed.

Hey Mr. Whiteside I had a few questions to pose to you! I really don’t know if these have been touched on so redirect me to another part of this post if it has been.

Fractals have so much great potential simply because of the idea behind it. This interesting type of machine that can lead you into the mists, where you could arrive at any place at space or time. This pretty much gives you infinite capability. Thousands and thousands of lore scenarios could be re-enacted here. But my question is, will you simply keep the same set up for fractals and simply add more and more fractals do the pool that you can possibly choose? I personally don’t like the idea so much of going into fotm and being given a 3 regular fractals out of a pool of 20 or so at some point in time. Is there any possibility that Anet would like to give us diversity in the way we enter these fractals? Or possibly give us an option to experience a particular fractal in mind just for the people who want to see the lore, or get practice with the instance?

My second idea which I just started rewriting because it was too long is do you find interest in the idea of combining fotm and dynamic events? Perhaps this fractal machine could be placed along certain zones for certain research opportunities that the asurans want. And in doing so, the machine becomes unstable at times and unleashes a part of the mists that may be from the past or present. The reason I think this would be cool it would counter part of the problem that DE’s have with being unable to address unique storylines with unique NPC’s since it would be really odd to be doing the same DE every 30 minutes where you kill this unique NPC that has this chain of dynamic events leading up to his death.

Spoj The Second.7680:

@Orpheal

It really cant though. Why is that most players sit around in open world all the time? Because dungeons and fractals are too hard for them or they dont enjoy instanced group content. It makes no sense to put excessive amounts of lore in an area where the players who like challenging instanced content is dont care about it. And the players that want that lore would barely ever experience it. They would visit fractals once to get their lore fix and then never visit again. You cannot infect every aspect of the game with the wants of casual players. It doesnt work. You shouldnt lock away lore in an area of the game that many players who enjoy lore will not visit.

You can put lore into fractals, I dont mind that. But if it ruins replayability and brings down the challenge then im not going to be happy.

I understand your point because there have been games that mix hardcore content with the juiciest lore alive and end up having a wave of disappointment from the lore audience because they are searching for lore not hardcore content and can’t completely see the lore when they can’t finish the content. The problem with your argument is that fractals has multiple difficulty levels. Thats why they need to implement more mechanics for bosses at level +40 for the hardcore players, and yet still satisfy the lore players who want to see the lore because they can simply do level 1.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Spoj The Second.7680:

The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

Quoted for truth ! Lore can be nice, but the most important thing if you want fractals to stay active is replayability, and for this you need balance, rewards, and challenge.

Lore is an important part of the fractals and will continue to be. Replayability, balance, rewards and challenge in no way exclude the ability to continue to tell exciting and meaningful stories in Fractals.

Chris

Note: Just got back from hospital and going to bed.

If the desire is continue to use Fractals to explore lore, would it not be a good idea to at least split Fractals into 2 sections? Use the same hub and general introduction to guide players into two possible scenarios.

The first pathway being a sort of “attuned” or “harmonic” Fractal where it has been confirmed that what is happening in the Fractal is the true scenario. Tune these to work with a variety of party sizes (including solo) but have a focus more on exploration, story and lore. These can also be a main vehicle for including Fractals in the Living Story content in the future but would be done in a way that was welcoming to all players. Also, the focus on story/lore first and challenge second would allow you to tell stories without letting a need for replayable progressing challenge content get in the way. Rewards should be lesser but would allow players less focused on organized group content to at least get their foot in the door.

The second pathway would be a sort of “discordant” or “chaotic” Fractals. These could even use the same basic framework/locations/scenarios/etc. from the above group such that work wasn’t repeated but would allow for developers to essentially throw away the rule book and design purely based on challenge and replayability. Want to have watchknights and Scarlet in the Colossus Fractal? Sure!. Want to have the players fight two Mai Trinns at the same time? Why not!. Want to totally remove that cutscene or dialogue scene that fit so well in the story version but ruins flow in the challenge version? Do it! Want some sort of Super Adventure Box Fractal where players fight 2 King Toads on a revolving platform crisscrossed by a deadly laser grid? Sounds great! Tune these for groups of 5 (or even 5+) and have the rewards be set based on a progression curve like Fractals currently are.

The concept of Fractals absolutely allow for both lore/story and replayable challenges, but handcuffing yourselves to doing both at the same time in the same Fractal is limiting both sides.

Could we, at least, like it was done in Ranger CDI, have a recap post of what’s been summarised in this thread and will be discussed with the team ?
There has been so much said and yet so few replies, we would not want this thread to be useless …
Especially since you said there was enough on rolling/rewards, it would be cool to post a proposal summarize

So I’ll come along with some custom scenario ideas too:
My starting idea

PS: this could be maybe merged with the current Swamp-Fractal as a new 3rd alot longer path for when the path splits between Mossman and the Tree Boss, the new 3rd way could lead to my suggestec scenario, but would appear only if Swamp would come as last fractal before of the final Boss Fractal.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Can we please avoid turning fractals into a living story portal. Its supposed to be endgame content for those of us who like challenging content. Adding lore is fine but I dont think it should be the main focus of fractals. Lore and rolling are not important for the future of fractals. Rewards, balance and challenge are what will decide whether fractals remains popular.

Many of the people asking for lore are players that barely step foot in fractals and if they got what they wanted id bet my socks off they would still barely set foot in fractals. Plus you would drive more regular fractal players away if you keep tailoring to these players needs. The regular and loyal fractal players are not in it for one time lore stories and easy dailies and that means they are in it for fun, challenging, rewarding and replayable content.

I would think it’s not necessarily wise for them to follow this suggestion, because A)Fractals is all about past bits of lore andthey are already accessible for all skill levels at low levels-as they should be. To suggest that only players that think too highly of themselves “deserve” the Fractals experience is just that-people wanting to feel exclusive by having access to “elite” content that “normal” players can’t do (fact is, players who don’t want extreme difficulty in their game just won’t touch the highest level of Fractals, while still being able to enjoy all they have to offer story-wise.)

Of course they shouldn’t be made easier, especially at high levels, but nothing wrong with the way it works now. I don’t believe ANet likes dividing their playerbase like that (“bad players” vs “really worthy players”), and that’s a good thing. To be fair, players in high level Fractals (theoretically) get better drops, so they are even being rewarded for their skill and teamwork as well; they are getting something else besides fun gameplay for tackling higher difficulty content.

In short, “those player’s needs” are as important than any “elite” player’s needs, and with the current system both can be accommodated-no reason to make Fractals “elite only”, or to assume that all “elite” players are “not interested in lore”, even (lore and challenge aren’t mutually exclusive.)

Those players barely play fractals. Thats my point.

Proposal Functionality
Change Reward depending on Fractal Lvl. This allows the player to control the type of reward they get.

Example: (all daily should give Pristine and normal relics)

1-10 – Nothing other than Pristine and normal relics
11-20 – Ascended Ring only
21-30 Infused Ascended Rings only
31-40 Fractal Weapon Skin only
41-50 Ascended Weapon chest box only
51-60 Ascended Armor chest box only
61+ Anet to add higher level as new content or gears get added.

Basically if I just want weapon skins, I pick the level range that drops skins.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

haviz.1340:

“Lore people” will play fractals once or twice and move on to roleplay in divinity’s reach while more dedicated players will get bored because it will lack any sort of challenge except bigger numbers.

What should be done is to severely decrease the number of scales, the difference between 1 and 9 is trivial. Introduce complex mechanics for higher tiers (not just numbers) and make those god kitten cinematics skippable. Obligatory reset included.

I am so tempted to be hyper critical on this post but I won’t, as it isn’t this single comment that has been frustrating but instead a culmination of posts in the CDI.

Suffice to say this post emphasizes why this CDI has been pretty good and not great. In my opinion there have been to many posts that have either not been well thought out or the poster has not taken the time to get educated in the discussion before putting pen to paper, and more specifically to insular in terms of goal resolution instead of thinking about the broader audience.

I will leave it at that.

I am still interested in continued discussion around your boss/encounter mechanic ideas, Rewards and ways in which the fractals could be evolved moving forward to provide new types of challenge.

Cheers,

Chris

I have always felt fractals were for a broad audience, its the one area where you can kind of select your difficulty. I also think its a good tool to hit a lot of different playstyles/audiences.

I think decentralizing the reward from being just the daily might be good. Perhaps add some more mob drops (of course it need to be something people want), which may balance it so that non speed runners are also incentivized. And levels with more enemies are less frowned on.

i think improving fractal relics trade in value, (towards items fractal players want/hunt) may also help for those who can only do shorter runs/have to leave.

i like the idea some one posted of a fast paced moving fractal. I think it would also to have fractal where you are like gods/totally OP, flashy abilities. Orrr maybe some fractals that show origins/legends related to some of the legendaries, perhaps you can even wield them temporarily. Essentially push the epic factor up a bit. you can do things in fractals that you cant really do in other places.

I think every content should tell a story. This storytelling could be divided into small parts, a puzzle which you have to put together on your own and epic story which should be satisfying.
I want to talk about this “epic moments” a little bit more since our personal story did it all wrong. 1. The animation didn’t fit into the context. You’ve always used the standart animations which are not convincing to say atleast. The new approach as seen with Kasmeer and Marjory would be the way to go.
2. The current music doesn’t reflect what’s happening. The music has to be as satisfying as the animations have to be.
Speaking of which: This game need new music. New good music. The music has to fulfill two criteria: 1. It has to be matching the content. 2. It has to be “re-listenable”. Play the music one week at work every day. If noone goes crazy, the music is good.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

I think every content should tell a story. This storytelling could be divided into small parts, a puzzle which you have to put together on your own and epic story which should be satisfying.
I want to talk about this “epic moments” a little bit more since our personal story did it all wrong. 1. The animation didn’t fit into the context. You’ve always used the standart animations which are not convincing to say atleast. The new approach as seen with Kasmeer and Marjory would be the way to go.
2. The current music doesn’t reflect what’s happening. The music has to be as satisfying as the animations have to be.
Speaking of which: This game need new music. New good music. The music has to fulfill two criteria: 1. It has to be matching the content. 2. It has to be “re-listenable”. Play the music one week at work every day. If noone goes crazy, the music is good.

i dont think the stuff we see now in LS would be good for fractals IF it takes too much time, remember fractals replayed alot. I do think its a good idea to have lots of little bits you put together for the whole story (if you choose to hunt it) like scarlets hideout, etc. Or perhaps pieces you can observe in background if you choose. It may also be good to have some hidden areas with some interesting side things happening maybe even hidden chests (like SAB but with lore and loot/events)

and yeah was just talking about the music the other day with a friend, its not bad, just way too random, and very often not related to anything happening. It doesnt serve as a storytelling element that often. Selecting specific music for certain events/places would help the game ALOT imo. But thats probably a totally different issue.

phys.7689:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

I think every content should tell a story. This storytelling could be divided into small parts, a puzzle which you have to put together on your own and epic story which should be satisfying.
I want to talk about this “epic moments” a little bit more since our personal story did it all wrong. 1. The animation didn’t fit into the context. You’ve always used the standart animations which are not convincing to say atleast. The new approach as seen with Kasmeer and Marjory would be the way to go.
2. The current music doesn’t reflect what’s happening. The music has to be as satisfying as the animations have to be.
Speaking of which: This game need new music. New good music. The music has to fulfill two criteria: 1. It has to be matching the content. 2. It has to be “re-listenable”. Play the music one week at work every day. If noone goes crazy, the music is good.

i dont think the stuff we see now in LS would be good for fractals IF it takes too much time, remember fractals replayed alot. I do think its a good idea to have lots of little bits you put together for the whole story (if you choose to hunt it) like scarlets hideout, etc. Or perhaps pieces you can observe in background if you choose. It may also be good to have some hidden areas with some interesting side things happening maybe even hidden chests (like SAB but with lore and loot/events)

and yeah was just talking about the music the other day with a friend, its not bad, just way too random, and very often not related to anything happening. It doesnt serve as a storytelling element that often. Selecting specific music for certain events/places would help the game ALOT imo. But thats probably a totally different issue.

I didn’t speak about the LS in particular. I just mentioned the “kiss-scene” as first scene of proper character animation.