Guild Wars 2

VOLKON.1290:

VOLKON.1290:

Nike.2631:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

The suggestions forum was axed so that developers could get the relevant information in their own sub forums, not because players and non anet forumers couldn’t wade through it.

The problem is symmetrical – Devs couldn’t be reasonably expected to look in two forums for matters of importance to them. Player’s shouldn’t be forced to look in two forums to find the most important threads about WvW for example. A WvW CDI belongs in the WvW board where WvW players will find it without checking an arcane schedule over when WvW is active in the CDI boards.

That isn’t difficult to handle. You put a sticky in the WvW section informing us over there that there’s a WvW based CDI in the CDI section and include the link. As passionate as WvW players are, they’ll be over in a heartbeat.

The idea of a CDI section to the forums would work best, I think, if the creation of threads is restricted to ANet people such as Chris. It becomes quite easy to keep the section neat that way, and when a CDI topic is closed all relevant sub-threads can be migrated with it to a historical section for the CDI topics. If the players see an idea come up that they’d like to see have it’s own thread they can simply ask.

This seemed to get buried back on page two, so just throwing it up again.

That’s a really good idea Volkon.

Is there any way this CDI thread can become a ‘sticky’ just below the ruler on the board, maybe even a different color? This would mean that people won’t have to bump the thread to keep it on the main page and it would still stick out as something not being a regular ‘sticky’.

Summary of Discussion – [8 feb 2014]

CDI-planning:
- Should include at least 2 weekends to maximize particiption, best to start on Friday.
- Limit CDI duration, to avoid the discussion running into a mush.
- Topic ‘picking’ is still to be decided upon. Suggestions include:
• ANet picks all topics
• ANet suggests options, the community votes on one to discuss.
• The community brainstorms and perhaps votes, but ANet decides on the topic.
• Alternating ANet Picks and Community Nominations.
- It is suggested to have these votes ‘in game’ or on another site announced in game, so that the whole community and not just the forum one gets to have a say in this.

Processes leading upto the CDI
- The CDI needs to be announced better, maybe even in-game to draw in more people and get a more diverse crowd/feedback.

The CDI-thread itself
- Increase visibility. CDI threads could become a different kind of sticky just below the ruler on the board or have a different color.
- Topic scope. Formulate topics that are more precise, yet broad enough to inspire feedback.
- The CDI thread on the mainboard could be just a brainstorm thread on issues related to the CDI topic, or a main running discussion. The CDI would then have a sub-forum, where ANet is able to split off ideas that spark heavy discussion, so that these singular topic discussions don’t overtake the main discussion and reduce its size.
- A sub-forum should be governed by Anet, they should make the threads, so this doesn’t end up as ‘just another’ forum section.
- CDI topic Primer. Opening post to include a descriptive ‘primer’ establishing the field being discussed.
- Summary placement. The 2nd post could be reserved for more procedural information: a running summary, links to the various related sub-forum topics.

In regards to the posting in the CDI-thread
- Dev responses. ArenaNet members should try to reply more towards the thread as a whole and ask general questions, rather than address players and ideas directly. Avoid a sense of favoritism.
- Use a format for posting suggestions/proposals. Discussion remains free-form.
- Be brief. Keep post size short, and use clear language so that readers can get the points without having to deal with the details.
- Posts that are entirely off topic from the CDI’s scope will be removed from the thread.

In regards to technical solutions
- To combat lengthy posts it is suggested to apply: Word limits. Post limits or flood control. Chris mentions (bit below here) these will not be applied.
- Displayed threads in two places if possible: appropriate forum for topic and CDI specific forum
- Explore software options:
• A more ‘reddit’ like forum section, using branching response structure.
• A Public Tracker (JIRA) function.
- An easier way to generate a link to a specific post would help, esp. when using them to create a table of content, but also in these summaries.
- The Q&A format may be able to be used to keep a certain Dev post displayed on top of each page.

Feedback from past CDIs
- Announce CDI impact. Add some way to clearly see the CDI influencing the game (patch notes, acknowledged in devs posting on the board).

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think we have discussed most everything.

However several CDI members brought up the importance of accessibility and welcoming folks with open arms so I think it is worthwhile us leaving the thread open until Sunday so new or returning members can share their thoughts.

Chris

no comment on how poor communication outside the cdi affects the cdi?
any plans to fix it so that so off topic stuff so it doesnt come up or are you getting your response to the watchwork pick ready for when it does inevitably come up in the next cdi?

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Nike are you quite finished breaking down my post?

Your pardon, I tend to go slowly and methodically when I’m saying something that won’t be popular. Things like “we’re not a bunch of kids in a classroom competing to get teacher to give us the gold star of their attention.”

Given the lack of dev responses forum-wide, no I don’t think it’s too much to ask for some acknowledgement of an idea that is posted.

I recognize that you think that and I believe you are flat-out wrong. It IS too much to ask.

Further elaboration can be given if needed and expanded upon after that (ie. collaboration), but I want to know I’m being heard first and foremost.

Then you’re going to have to trust that the Devs aren’t lying when they say “I’ve caught up reading the thread, and…”

Anything that a dev says ’they’ve read’ can be just glanced over without a second thought. You should be bright enough to see that.

I am bright enough to understand it could happen. I also recognize that how you write impacts how interesting you are to read. Its why I push for guidance rather than hard rules. The burden is on us to elevate our level of play so that Devs are nothing less than thrilled at the chance to read all of our posts.

Secondly, I don’t really appreciate the condescending tone of your reply to me being in another time zone.

That’s not condescension – its a reality check. Opportunities for ‘live chat’ are only going to happen when a Host is actually on. It’s not “so deal with it.” It’s “I don’t see how it can be any other way, unless you have an idea?”

Do you have an idea?

If you’re in among the flood of responses with a critical idea that you think may work that is in among the middle of a sea of posts between dev’s red posts, you’re not likely to be seen at all. Again, it’s not just me with this issue, it’s those in similar circumstances, like I’ve seen in the CDI’s up till this one.

I just don’t believe timezone is as big a handicap as you make out. Most of my concept posting happens around midnight. No Dev is up and reading at those hours. It gets delivered with “the flood” next time they have a chance to catch up.

Quite a few brilliant ideas I saw come out of those, and only a few were actually acknowledged as being dev-good.

Their criteria for usefulness may be different than your own. I don’t have perfect grasp for what they can use or what will inspire them. I do see the pattern others have mentioned: ideas discussed/refined between Dev reads have a better chance of drawing specific mention. Brainstorming works.

So, tell me, what’s the point of speaking if you stand the chance of not being heard?

You ARE heard. You just want to be more sure of it. Beyond extending trust that you’ve been read I don’t know how you should proceed. As the CDI process matures and more people participate, expecting the Host to stop and nod to every single person pressing ‘reply’ is going to get more and more impractical.

I get it; you, videoboy, gidorah and a few others are in the dev’s lap right now because you’re seen as being the in-crowd. I’m not the only one who sees this, anyone who responded with the same ‘cliquey’ references has sniffed it out too. This is what makes us nervous. We stand the chance of not being the same priority as the ones responded to most often.

You really should go back and read the first Evolution thread, because I’ve done this dance before.

Yes. If for some reason you think this is a game and keeping score is done by how many direct responses you collect… I win. I win by such a wide margin that I’d really hope people stop trying to play that game. It’s a dumb game, and honestly, wining isn’t as thrilling as you might think. I measure my success more by how well my peers respond – because its not a given that they will read every post.

What people tend to overlook is l also have the highest number of CDI posts that have not been responded to. Most of my posts aren’t directed at that Devs – they’re talking with my peers trying to refine ideas, calling out posts I think are rich with potential, or hashing out issues with people.

I think you’ll find it non-coincidental that the people who have pitched in hours of work to chronicle the threads through hyperlinked summaries of these behemoth topics also have little difficulty getting a direct response when they speak directly to the host.

So maybe I do have an idea how to proceed if you want to be “one of the cool kids”. Contribute to the success of the CDI threads with more than just a single “Here’s my ideas, kthnxbai!” post. But you don’t have to be a cool kid to get read, and we’ve seen plenty of folks come out of nowhere to offer absolutely fantastic ideas that go straight into the Proposal.

Holy crap, am I in a clique now? I’ve never been in a clique before, quick, how am I supposed to act? Cool? Nonchalant? Should I go hipster? Do I need a suit and tie?

The concern about not being heard because you’re not a regular is an understandable concern. It’s also one of those natural responses any time an undertaking like this gets sufficiently large . . . almost an indicator of when it becomes “big”. If the reaction of people participating for the first time is “I don’t know if I’ll be listened to but…” then you’ve got a problem with size.

On the other hand, it’s a constant and consistent problem with human mentality. “Wow that’s a lot of people, I don’t think I’ll be noticed” is common. Even on the Internet, where there’s often literally just words and a screenname to regard instead of how you’re dressed, male or female, body language . . . it’s still an effect of speaking up in a group.

Really the best way to be sure you’re noticed is not to make a big deal about being noticed or not being noticed. Don’t just bring a good idea to the table, sit around to discuss others. Get involved, be respectful, if you think some idea needs tweaking offer your tweaks and edits for consideration.

And ideally, the reward for doing this is the act, not what’s at the end. The reward is a self-satisfaction of looking at something and going “I helped build that”. We really should require nothing more.

Rouven.7409:

No in-game titles please, even temporary. I also don’t feel there is a need for personal acknowledgment.

((dopey voice)) Okay . ((/dopey voice))

I’m not deeply enamored with the idea, but I do think we need to eventually see something in-game that makes non-forumite players aware that their game is being talked about in an open fashion and they are invited. I’m sure some of our most capable players are interacting with the game at the highest level without ever dropping by to post or ever having even a chance of hearing about the CDIs that they could drop some absolutely amazing insights into.

Nike.2631:

(…) I do think we need to eventually see something in-game that makes non-forumite players aware that their game is being talked about in an open fashion and they are invited. (…)

Absolutely. But not personalized. I believe the exposure would not be that great in any case. An actual email similar to the ones we are getting about the living story segments might be better. In-game mail or at the login screen could be possible too, but how many will leave the game at that point to read the forum and/or simply forget after their gaming session.

I’ll say one thing…

Quote wars are bad, mmmmk

Quote wars, even if it may be not be the quoter’s intent, is a consequence of forum design and is often seen as tearing apart the overall meaning of the quotee’s responses, to instead attack the individual sentences and statements.

It never ends well. (Sir Nike)

I ran out of character room for the ‘summary’ in the 2nd post up this page. I hope I did everybody justice and got most if not all viewpoint expressed in this thread, without going into specific details on certain issues (like f/e how to format a post).

Hopefully this will help everybody out in determining where we might need improvements or about things that still need to be mentioned or discussed.

Zypher.7609:

Having a limit on words for the post might not be good but rather on the one post itself. I think if an idea takes multiple posts to get across it has not been thought out enough. There is plenty of room to get an idea out in one post, at least it seems to be judging by some of the great ideas that have come out in far less than that.

Edit: And thanks Arghore, you weren’t quite able to get everything, but that always happens when summarizing. This is useful and pretty impressive anyways.

As for linking to individual posts: use the chain-link icon on the bottom right corner of a post to get the url. (copy it from your browser)

I also think that having a limit on how often someone can post would also help. By putting a time limit in between posts it helps with stopping the ‘i must defend my idea to the last breath’ from happening. A downside of this would be posters that engage in conversation between other posters. But maybe if the gap were lets say an hour, it would still allow topics to be discussed without the back and forth for pages between a group of people. This would also allow a time period for people to cool off before posting the ‘angry’ post.

Basically the CDI does get very long and could use something to help keep posts well thought out and on topic.

Hmm, I think this could work, if the time limit only applies to that CDI thread. But I don’t know if the time limit has to be an hour. A 30 minutes break may already be enough to discourage multi-posts, since they’re likely to be broken up by other posts.

It would kill the kind of summarizing that Bezagron did in the previous CDI, but perhaps we can work around that in a seperate thread. (Mostly because the links take up so much space.)

The CDI could use a different colour if changes like this are made though, and a seperate forum section perhaps. To explain that there are slightly different forum rules/mechanics in the CDI thread.

Malchior.5042:

I’ll say one thing…

Quote wars are bad, mmmmk

Quote wars, even if it may be not be the quoter’s intent, is a consequence of forum design and is often seen as tearing apart the overall meaning of the quotee’s responses, to instead attack the individual sentences and statements.

It never ends well. (Sir Nike)

Well, it may end well but it seems its a dammed if you do dammed if you don’t . You respond to it as a single lump and people complain “you missed my point” and if you respond to it point by point its ‘quote wars’.

Take it for what it is: being fully engaged in discussion with that poster. If you want separate responses about individual acknowledgement, time zones, and cliquishness/human psychology, put them in different posts. I thought we were just seeing good ‘conservation of thread length’ and was following suit .

Arghore.8340:

I ran out of character room for the ‘summary’ in the 2nd post up this page. I hope I did everybody justice and got most if not all viewpoint expressed in this thread, without going into specific details on certain issues (like f/e how to format a post).

Hopefully this will help everybody out in determining where we might need improvements or about things that still need to be mentioned or discussed.

Pssssst! Just wanted you to know it made me giddy to see someone take a crack at that. If I have any thoughts on what to add, I’ll mail then to you directly.

Nike.2631:

Pssssst! Just wanted you to know it made me giddy to see someone take a crack at that. If I have any thoughts on what to add, I’ll mail then to you directly.

lol, There is no more room in that post! it reached like 4995characters or so. :P … so best to add things in the general discussion, although you may always send me a PM if you feel like doing so

Chris Whiteside.6102:

gidorah.4960:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think we have discussed most everything.

However several CDI members brought up the importance of accessibility and welcoming folks with open arms so I think it is worthwhile us leaving the thread open until Sunday so new or returning members can share their thoughts.

Chris

no comment on how poor communication outside the cdi affects the cdi?
any plans to fix it so that so off topic stuff so it doesnt come up or are you getting your response to the watchwork pick ready for when it does inevitably come up in the next cdi?

Hi Gidorah,

Off topic discussion will be removed from the thread.

Regarding your first question I am currently researching this topic.

Chris

hey Chris,
off topic discusion will be removed, do you think the cdi will become better or worse if it is forced to be heavily moderated due to outside issue’s not being addressed outside and do you think someone out there isn’t clever enough to bring it up in an on topic way? someone already brought up the fractals and wvw in semi on topic ways and derailed threads for several pages and it is also the only way those issues got responses. I think even you have to notice the random nature of communication outside the cdi and the consistent nature of it within. I honestly do not think the cdi can stay a healthy means of communication without there being better and more reliable channels of communication outside of it.

gidorah.4960:

I honestly do not think the cdi can stay a healthy means of communication without there being better and more reliable channels of communication outside of it.

You’re aware it’s quite possible that’s outside the scope of what he can do anything about, discuss openly, impact meaningfully, or all of the above?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Finnway.2183:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

1: We need to keep thread and post sizes more manageable. Should we put a limit on the word length of posts?

Pick narrower topics. “Horizontal vs. Vertical Progression” is almost as broad as you can get. When you pick broad topics like this it eats up developer time and poster time just trying to catch up with the thread and it discourages posters from posting.
Also, you’re getting feedback from a narrower group of people who have the time to read the posts and get caught up, and also who post actively (hence making the thread longer and contributing to the problem).

Chris Whiteside.6102:

1: More Focused Topics! (Done!)

I would argue this wasn’t accomplished the Horizontal/Vertical progression threads. You changed the community chosen subject —Ascended Gear-- to progression in general.

As a note. The two topics were separate and discussed as separate entities.

Chris

Either way, Ascended Gear is part of the whole Progression in General Chris…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

gidorah.4960:

I honestly do not think the cdi can stay a healthy means of communication without there being better and more reliable channels of communication outside of it.

You’re aware it’s quite possible that’s outside the scope of what he can do anything about, discuss openly, impact meaningfully, or all of the above?

There where no reliable ways till he started the cdi he obviously can do something . Beyond that I think he has too if he wants the cdi to be effective you simply cannot have communication channels so out of balance. Someone will be dealing with these issues no matter what, either outside the cdi in the proper areas or inside the cdi with resentful players wondering why the cdi is going so well while other important issues are being ignored.

As far as post lengths go, a word limit would be fine….knowing that there’s a limit brings about concise discussion.

Elrey.5472:

2: How are we going to chose topics moving forward, for example, by votes or by Anet choosing them etc?
Using the in-game poll system you had in the BETA. Let the player base decides and not the small forum active players. By using the in-game beta polls you would also encourage players to go to the forums if the selected topic is amongst their interests.

This, dear god, make this happen. By putting the effort into this, the whole gaming community will be involved in the choice of topics..and the choice of topics can be chosen from what the forum community thought would be important and Anet can add their own same number of choices based on their own criteria of importance…but ultimately it really does become the choice of the community on what to focus on.

The Lost Witch.7601:

Nike.2631:

You seriously equate “Let’s have a largely informal chat about the possibilities of design” with “We must have immediate transparency to critique ongoing operations”? Good luck finding a Dev who wants to host that witch-hunt in the making…

I think we’re simply stating that the lack of responses on other sections of the forum leads to the side-effect of players viewing the CDI as the only direct channel for communicating with the devs. While this is not what the CDI is/should be.

It is not so much the lack of information, it is the lack of interaction. I don’t think that we need or should have immediate transparency. I do think that serious issues deserve a response though, even if they are very vague responses.

So the problem is on the one hand that the devs don’t have/take the time to respond to the most discussions. On the other hand we have to keep in mind that large topics are hard to read and the most discussions aren’t really helpfull if you try to flesh out the ideas behind a thread. To keep wishes and suggestions well structured for both devs and players you could add some new features to the forums:

• Introduce a template to keep concerns and suggestions packed
• Fix the searchfunction
• Introduce Topics which you can your post assign to (Professions, Utility Skills, Traits, Weapon Skills, Enviroment, etc.)
• Downvote/Upvote buttons to evaluate threads and posts
  So if you want to search for the warrior healing signet, you could choose the topics “Warrior” and “Utility Skills” and search for heal signet. This would lower the amount of multiposts and contract the replies.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

…

The concern about not being heard because you’re not a regular is an understandable concern. It’s also one of those natural responses any time an undertaking like this gets sufficiently large . . . almost an indicator of when it becomes “big”. If the reaction of people participating for the first time is “I don’t know if I’ll be listened to but…” then you’ve got a problem with size.

On the other hand, it’s a constant and consistent problem with human mentality. “Wow that’s a lot of people, I don’t think I’ll be noticed” is common. Even on the Internet, where there’s often literally just words and a screenname to regard instead of how you’re dressed, male or female, body language . . . it’s still an effect of speaking up in a group.

Really the best way to be sure you’re noticed is not to make a big deal about being noticed or not being noticed. Don’t just bring a good idea to the table, sit around to discuss others. Get involved, be respectful, if you think some idea needs tweaking offer your tweaks and edits for consideration.

And ideally, the reward for doing this is the act, not what’s at the end. The reward is a self-satisfaction of looking at something and going “I helped build that”. We really should require nothing more.

I think this says it best, and please remember, I’m not posting at all on solely on my behalf.. it’s for all the people out there who have great ideas and aren’t really seen.

Perhaps I’m not as active on forums as I was maybe 10 years ago (I was a serial forumite on various forums) and I don’t get enough time as I would like to keep up with everything going on in the MMO world. Consequently my ideas might not be ‘up there’ with others who might be more practical.

Nike, your method of stripping down my posts goes from condescension to apparent patronism, regardless of how you want it to come across. Malchior is on the right track here.

Thanks for your respective elaborations, Tobias and Malchior.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Thanks for your respective elaborations, Tobias and Malchior.

Those who show respect get respect. Those who have opinions I can at least understand (even if I don’t agree) get me explaining why I feel a way even if it gets wordy.

I really try not to dismiss people out of hand for disagreeing. (And I still fail sometimes )

Really, what the CDI threads need are ideas and expressions of opinion more than trying to set people straight.

Bumping this to page 1 (and reiterating my opinion that CDI needs it’s own sub forum)

1. no limit for length of posts but there should be warning at the end of the OP that walls of text may be ignored (posts with more than cca XY words).

2. Anet should pick all CDI topics because it is clear that Anet does not care about many things that we actually do care about. Best example is the “Dungeons” subforum. Hundreds of discussions, thousands of posts, good suggestions, valid points of concern etc…. but no response from Anet whatsoever. Why waste time of participants on both sides by talking about topic which has won by vote but at the end will be ignored and forgotten by Anet. Therefore every topic should be picked by Anet.

Brahmincorle.1264:

2. Anet should pick all CDI topics because it is clear that Anet does not care about many things that we actually do care about. Best example is the “Dungeons” subforum. Hundreds of discussions, thousands of posts, good suggestions, valid points of concern etc…. but no response from Anet whatsoever. Why waste time of participants on both sides by talking about topic which has won by vote but at the end will be ignored and forgotten by Anet. Therefore every topic should be picked by Anet.

this is exactly what i am talking about chris this person has concerns that are being ignored and it is causing a loss of respect in the cdi process he is not aproaching it in the good faith it deserves. I genuinely do not understand how you can not see this and not attempt to fix this for the health of your initiative that was started with the goal of improving discussion and collaboration. Functional communication cannot exist solely inside the cdi. it either has to exist everywhere or bad faith and outside issue’s will come up in the cdi.

Conski Deshan.2057:

I feel it would be really useful to have the team members the CDI effects actually post too. You do a great job at replying, but I feel that they could bring insight, maybe explain why an idea is unfeasable, explain a technical limitation we might not otherwise account for. Don’t be afraid to go technical.

The CDI I got the most value from was the Living Story one, because Chris (or someone) took a tough stand and explained in-depth why Arena Net is sticking with a bi-weekly patch schedule.
The CDI I got the least value from was Horizontal Progression because most devs posts just quoted a poster and said “I like this idea.” They didn’t go in depth or explain why.
I thought the whole reason for the Collaborative Development Initiative was for developers to learn what players want, and for players to learn why developers make the decisions they do and I’d like to see more posts of that nature.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

A number of members of the CDI have mentioned hard locks on word counts so I wanted to address this.

We will not be putting a hard lock on word counts. Instead I will request that posts are as concise where appropriate and suggest a template for addition of new ideas and proposals.

Chris

What about being more precise when choosing a topic so the thread doesn’t reach 30 pages in 2 days?

CDI Context in Opening Post

I suggest to the developers to clearly state in the opening post what they see as the main functionalities with regard to the topic. That is, what is the reason this is already in the game or what is the desired effect when introducing it.

To be more concrete, I suggest using the same/a slightly varied template to the one that will be provided for us. The post should make clear why a topic has been chosen (the “summary”) and what the expectations on the discussion results are (the “main part”).

This might not be applicable to every topic.

The reasoning behind this is that I think everything fulfills a role and the discussion should be geared towards improving there. However, this is hard if we don’t know exactly what the role is. The role might still be questioned in the CDI. However, I think a discussion on changing a role might well be outside the scope of CDIs.

The summary in post 3 on this page has been ‘shortened’ with the help of Nike. It now has room to include more things, given there are any more to include. So if you think i forgot a certain suggestion or topic please let me know, so i can include them.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Bump for exposure.

Chris

This just seems so silly. If a thread is valuable enough to remain on the first page of the discussions subforum, then it should just ‘be’ on the first page. I think CDI threads need a unique icon and unique sticky properties.

On another note, why is a player taking responsibility for compiling the every 3 pages summary? If I were to start a thread hoping that it get promoted to CDI status, I would assume the responsibility of the summary would be mine.

An unique icon would allow an intern to compile the summary of CDI threads started by ArenaNet.

“There not convincing me that they are a part of the living world. In the Asura capital the worms are too tame, I stand by them and they do nothing! The way the worms there are seems unrealistic and act like static mob clusters, Arenanet promised this would not be the case. Are the worms asleep? I’m disappointed, I thought I was paying $50 for better than what I got! Do better!” – sage.6947

Start a sub thread topic about mobs and there AIs.

I’m not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this, however we had a very good thread going about rewards based on the exploration bonus / rarely killed creatures. Since this is a place to contribute feedback, I thought I’d post a link to it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Rarely-killed-mob-better-loot/first

Thanks!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Arghore.8340:

Summary of Discussion – [8 feb 2014]

CDI-planning:
- Should include at least 2 weekends to maximize particiption, best to start on Friday.
- Limit CDI duration, to avoid the discussion running into a mush.
- Topic ‘picking’ is still to be decided upon. Suggestions include:
• ANet picks all topics
• ANet suggests options, the community votes on one to discuss.
• The community brainstorms and perhaps votes, but ANet decides on the topic.
• Alternating ANet Picks and Community Nominations.
- It is suggested to have these votes ‘in game’ or on another site announced in game, so that the whole community and not just the forum one gets to have a say in this.

Processes leading upto the CDI
- The CDI needs to be announced better, maybe even in-game to draw in more people and get a more diverse crowd/feedback.

The CDI-thread itself
- Increase visibility. CDI threads could become a different kind of sticky just below the ruler on the board or have a different color.
- Topic scope. Formulate topics that are more precise, yet broad enough to inspire feedback.
- The CDI thread on the mainboard could be just a brainstorm thread on issues related to the CDI topic, or a main running discussion. The CDI would then have a sub-forum, where ANet is able to split off ideas that spark heavy discussion, so that these singular topic discussions don’t overtake the main discussion and reduce its size.
- A sub-forum should be governed by Anet, they should make the threads, so this doesn’t end up as ‘just another’ forum section.
- CDI topic Primer. Opening post to include a descriptive ‘primer’ establishing the field being discussed.
- Summary placement. The 2nd post could be reserved for more procedural information: a running summary, links to the various related sub-forum topics.

In regards to the posting in the CDI-thread
- Dev responses. ArenaNet members should try to reply more towards the thread as a whole and ask general questions, rather than address players and ideas directly. Avoid a sense of favoritism.
- Use a format for posting suggestions/proposals. Discussion remains free-form.
- Be brief. Keep post size short, and use clear language so that readers can get the points without having to deal with the details.
- Posts that are entirely off topic from the CDI’s scope will be removed from the thread.

In regards to technical solutions
- To combat lengthy posts it is suggested to apply: Word limits. Post limits or flood control. Chris mentions (bit below here) these will not be applied.
- Displayed threads in two places if possible: appropriate forum for topic and CDI specific forum
- Explore software options:
• A more ‘reddit’ like forum section, using branching response structure.
• A Public Tracker (JIRA) function.
- An easier way to generate a link to a specific post would help, esp. when using them to create a table of content, but also in these summaries.
- The Q&A format may be able to be used to keep a certain Dev post displayed on top of each page.

Feedback from past CDIs
- Announce CDI impact. Add some way to clearly see the CDI influencing the game (patch notes, acknowledged in devs posting on the board).

Thanks for the summary Arghore,

Quick note that this thread will be locked tomorrow morning following a summary and the announcement of the next topics which the devs will be choosing.

Chris

I would make a group of Asuran Scientists with a mainframe computer not dissimilar to the SAB that you click on to power up and the scientists talk you through the CDI choices. There should also be a blank line for people to write in suggestions that may not be there. Fully incorporate this into the game.

I don’t know why but I have never been a fan of lore outside the primary media for something. Be it comic books for games, or webisodes for TV shows. I visit the forums often, but I would rather leaderboards and discussions all go on in the game world.

Just want to push this, because it think it got lost.

whyme.3281:

Have you ever considered closing the threads for let’s say an hour go through it and start a lifestream with the appropriate developers to the discussed topic.

Maybe read 30minutes through the post, make some notes and then start a lifestream.

It would be interesting, what they think about it, what’s their concern…. I think it would be alot easier for you, to post your reply in a video. Last CDI you “wasted” 30minutes to answere a question, while the discussion went to a completly different topic.

If possible, do it every day or two, after lunch (just a suggestion). But please dont start reading through the threads, at the lifestream, the reading must be done first. The advantage of a video for you as developer is clear I think, your can go more into details and more devs are involved into the answere.

(the quotes are just to showcase as they happen to be really good examples, nothing against the posters)

Things that should not be in a CDI discussion.

Posts to just link other threads:

I’m not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this, however we had a very good thread going about rewards based on the exploration bonus / rarely killed creatures. Since this is a place to contribute feedback, I thought I’d post a link to it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Rarely-killed-mob-better-loot/first

Thanks!

If you have something to contribute to the topic do it in the CDI. In case you still want to link to some thread elsewhere give a short summary first. As CDI’s tend to grow rather large i dont want to have to dig through other long threads and walls of text on top of it.

Bumping post:

whyme.3281:

Just want to push this, because it think it got lost.

whyme.3281:

Have you ever considered closing the threads for let’s say an hour go through it and start a lifestream with the appropriate developers to the discussed topic.

Maybe read 30minutes through the post, make some notes and then start a lifestream.

It would be interesting, what they think about it, what’s their concern…. I think it would be alot easier for you, to post your reply in a video. Last CDI you “wasted” 30minutes to answere a question, while the discussion went to a completly different topic.

If possible, do it every day or two, after lunch (just a suggestion). But please dont start reading through the threads, at the lifestream, the reading must be done first. The advantage of a video for you as developer is clear I think, your can go more into details and more devs are involved into the answere.

Should not be allowed, it will just bloat the CDI. I think we all have to trust Anet here, if they say they read everything.

About deciding the CDI topic, i’m for alternating between voted by the community and picked by Anet.
Important: The topic voted by the community should not be changed by Anet.
I found it immensely, immensely rude that Anet changed the Ascended topic to progression. You cant call this “collaboration” and then “dictate” what we have to talk about! If the customers wants to talk about X, the talk will be about X.

I personally would go for the community picking to topic through votes to remove any possibility of immediately important topics from being avoided entirely.

Nimrod.9240:

---

About deciding the CDI topic, i’m for alternating between voted by the community and picked by Anet.
Important: The topic voted by the community should not be changed by Anet.
I found it immensely, immensely rude that Anet changed the Ascended topic to progression. You cant call this “collaboration” and then “dictate” what we have to talk about! If the customers wants to talk about X, the talk will be about X.

We did discuss ascended quite extensively in the vertical progression topic. It was initially just ‘character progression’, but in all the ascended-talk, most other forms of character progression were lost. So the topic got split into two sections, first vertical (with a strong focus on ascended gear) and then horizontal progression (which may still have been too broad a subject?).

I don’t think that the change from ascended to character progression as a topic was made because they didn’t want to talk about ascended. I think it was made to include certain subjects that bordered on this topic and to make room for suggesting alternatives to the ascended-vertical-progression.

Looking towards the future:

If we were to have a new CDI on fractals, would it be good to include dungeons? (The topic title could be either Fractals & Dungeons, or ‘instanced content’)

Some benefits of having both:

• We may not need a seperate topic on dungeons later on.
• More people might be inclined to join in. (That don’t do fractals, but are very interested in dungeons)
• They are closely related, so problems and solutions for fractals might be similar for dungeons.

And some downsides:

• Perhaps too much to talk about. (We could in theory always move from fractals to dungeons if there is not enough to talk about with just fractals)
• Less focus in the discussion.

Personally I would say, go with just fractals to see if the extra focus makes the CDI easier to follow.

Well, hopefully we get the process of picking them nailed down so these gaps become smaller/more brief .

Hopefully fractals will be included

Romo.3709:

Hopefully fractals will be included

Seconded. ^.^

Romo.3709:

Hopefully fractals will be included

This reminds me to make a quick note: Discussing the merits of previous changes to the game is not the stated purpose of the CDI, unless new ideas are needed beyond “reverse the change.” For example, the introduction of ascended equipment was seen by some as problematic, but the discussion was on new ways to make it work better, not simply removing it.

Almost all of the fractal-related posts I have seen in the CDI have been about the reward level reset, and generally wanting it reversed. This is a valid topic, but one outside the scope of the CDI project, and will get better traction if discussed in the appropriate place.

Gulesave.5073:

Romo.3709:

Hopefully fractals will be included

This reminds me to make a quick note: Discussing the merits of previous changes to the game is not the stated purpose of the CDI, unless new ideas are needed beyond “reverse the change.” For example, the introduction of ascended equipment was seen by some as problematic, but the discussion was on new ways to make it work better, not simply removing it.

Almost all of the fractal-related posts I have seen in the CDI have been about the reward level reset, and generally wanting it reversed. This is a valid topic, but one outside the scope of the CDI project, and will get better traction if discussed in the appropriate place.

Fractal system is broken at the moment, instabilities have not been tested on ALL levels, dredge fractal still needs something, anything. Prestine relics are worthless after you get rings you want. So the whole system was just put in place and forgotten at this point. There is many questions and issues that been introduced with the new path along with many promises that were not delivered. It’s too late for reversing anything, but fixing broken things should be something that would need any kind of attention at this point. “Fixing” exploits is not fixing the levels that are in most cases broken because of some of the instabilities that were introduced without any proper testing prior.

If you don’t need your Pristine Fractal Relics anymore, just turn them into regular ones.

I think it might be prudent to have a QoL Update CDI. It would allow everyone to point out some of the smaller things that could be/need to be improved, but aren’t necessarily large enough concerns for an entire thread.

Chris could gradually change the area of focus as the thread went on. Ex: Perhaps he starts off asking what type of Fractal QoL changes we need/want. Let that go for a bit, then ask us about UI QoL, the Crafting QoL, etc.

Hopefully, Arenanet choosing the next topic/topics doesn’t preclude the player-base from choosing topics in the future. It would be very interesting to see if we could development our own process for bringing organized content ideas forward. I would hate to see the CDI become the tune that we all dance to around the uncomfortable issues.

edit : and fishing