Guild Wars 2

Tease.

Yay! Another CDI!!!

Wait, what is this one supposed to be about again?

Phase 2? What was phase 1? :P

oh nvm, I found the first one. Was trying to figure out what on earth this was supposed to be about:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Process-Evolution

To be honest, this one is kind of boring for me. I would think people are just going to repeat what they said in the first one.

Like feedback about what we talked about around horizontal and vertical progression?

Nah, this will be improving the process. I got some ideas whenever Chris gets the thread ready.

I have also already been pondering about this topic, and my fingers are somewhat itching to contribute. But if Malchior be a part of this, all my be in vane, teehee (thought idd never find a familiar name in this overcrowded new forum :P )

Keeping my fingers crossed for tomorrow, gives me a whole weekend to dive into this

Meh… Still waiting to see all that talk from the Dec 10th take form much less all that was discussed in the subclasses forums to make it to the game. If none of that makes it (which hasn’t from what I’ve seen) then all the CDI is just a PR game.

I guess GW2 has now 4 modes…PvE, WvW, PvP and…. forums.
:)

PhiLL.1746:

I guess GW2 has now 4 modes…PvE, WvW, PvP and…. forums.
:)

Not necessarily in that order.

Why RP is always forget ? :’( It’s a third of MMORPG T_T We don’t say MMOPvEG.
*go cry in his bed* :D

With another 108 pages of posts in the character progression thread(s), I’d say we have quite a bit of new data to point at as we go over how to get more out of the process. Hopefully we are also coming up on some tangible examples of “closing the loop” where they can tell us about CDI threads & even specific posts that have had visible impact on the live servers.

hmm didn’t we supposed to get the update yesterday?

Please do something about overflows, it’s bad that we are always forced to work with people who doesn’t want to cooperate and act rude towards folks explaining mechanics (cough Marionette cough cough).

Would be nice to know what suggestions people made in the last CDI actually got paid attention to and are being looked at for implementation.

I would have to agree it would be nice to see from a High Level View what ANet deemed as valuable take-aways from previous CDI’s.

There are a lot of people taking a ton of time putting forth herculean efforts to favorably contribute to this process with little feedback on the resulting outcome of their suggestions.

Granted, I understand that ANet cannot give specifics on what is being worked on and I understand that it will be at least 4 months until we see the first buds of the fruits of our labor but some kind of a summary of things ANet is evaluating for potential future consideration would be nice.

I remain a firm supporter of the CDI process and look forward with fervent anticipation to the results of our combined blood, sweat and yes, sometimes even tears.

Lexandro.1456:

Would be nice to know what suggestions people made in the last CDI actually got paid attention to and are being looked at for implementation.

Unfortunately, I think the same phrases we’ve heard in the past are going to be stated when asking anything in relation to the status of CDI implementation:

“It’s something we’re talking about”
“xyz isn’t something we’re looking to do but It’s not off the table”
“We’ve talked alot about xyz”

nethykins.7986:

Lexandro.1456:

Would be nice to know what suggestions people made in the last CDI actually got paid attention to and are being looked at for implementation.

Unfortunately, I think the same phrases we’ve heard in the past are going to be stated when asking anything in relation to the status of CDI implementation:

“It’s something we’re talking about”
“xyz isn’t something we’re looking to do but It’s not off the table”
“We’ve talked alot about xyz”

Personally, I think it’s a just a ‘Black Hole’. It only serves to placate the masses and eventually becomes too large and unweildy to particpate in. When some of the top suggestions such as a house will do absolutely nothing to correct problems that have existed from day 1, I question it’s relevance other than to seem like the community is being engaged.

And yes a written report by a dev that summerises the suggestions as well as ranking them by how many players supported/suggested.

Blude.6812:

nethykins.7986:

Lexandro.1456:

Would be nice to know what suggestions people made in the last CDI actually got paid attention to and are being looked at for implementation.

Unfortunately, I think the same phrases we’ve heard in the past are going to be stated when asking anything in relation to the status of CDI implementation:

“It’s something we’re talking about”
“xyz isn’t something we’re looking to do but It’s not off the table”
“We’ve talked alot about xyz”

Personally, I think it’s a just a ‘Black Hole’. It only serves to placate the masses and eventually becomes too large and unweildy to particpate in. When some of the top suggestions such as a house will do absolutely nothing to correct problems that have existed from day 1, I question it’s relevance other than to seem like the community is being engaged.

And yes a written report by a dev that summerises the suggestions as well as ranking them by how many players supported/suggested.

I’ll agree, it does seem somewhat like a ‘Black Hole’.
We know the CDI hasn’t been out for very long and that is definitely a defining factor to why it feels this way, however the suggestions forums have been doing that since the launch of the game, and a lot of the posts were reinterpretations, reiterations and links galore to previous examples stated many months earlier.

On the aspect of housing, the one thing that boggles my mind, is that why, when everyone had been saying from launch, “the personal home instance is not the same as housing” then reading an interview where ANet stated that they were focusing more on personal story having an effect on your home instance and that housing “isn’t something they’re looking into”, why they can just turn on a dime now instead of trying to work with the playerbase earlier on.
And hey, if this issue was rectified a lot earlier, we wouldn’t be having housing as a ‘most wanted’ feature in this discussion.

Currently it’s relevance is just that. Engagement. We can’t say otherwise because we have no proof. All the words in the world could be poured out for all to read, with innovative ideas solving many of the games problems, and the devs could agree 100% and nod heavily in agreement…but until something actually gets done…thats when we’ll see the power behind those words.

Maybe this isn’t exactly on topic, but….

I am hoping that the 2014 Blog concerning the next 3/6 months worth of content comes out soon. It’s nearly the end of January.

Lexandro.1456:

Would be nice to know what suggestions people made in the last CDI actually got paid attention to and are being looked at for implementation.

Chris himself actually specifically promised me directly in a forum post that we would get such a summary for the WvW Population Imbalance CDI from ANet’s point of view. It never happened. I keep trying to remind him of his promise every once in a while and we still get nothing.

After many, many pages of discussion and lots of very good ideas in the WvW Commander CDI all we got a couple of lines of dev summary that basically said that implementing different colored tags might be something to consider in the future.

If we can’t even get a reasonable summary of the key takeaways from these CDI’s I don’t think we should expect to ever see something concrete emerge from them. Lots of players, me included, were delusional enough to think that ANet was finally serious about responding to their player base, but these CDI’s are looking more and more like just a cynical attempt at defer/defect PR to calm the unrest in the forums.

A rat hole is a rat hole no matter what you call it.

Cactus.2710:

Lexandro.1456:

Would be nice to know what suggestions people made in the last CDI actually got paid attention to and are being looked at for implementation.

Chris himself actually specifically promised me directly in a forum post that we would get such a summary for the WvW Population Imbalance CDI from ANet’s point of view. It never happened. I keep trying to remind him of his promise every once in a while and we still get nothing.

After many, many pages of discussion and lots of very good ideas in the WvW Commander CDI all we got a couple of lines of dev summary that basically said that implementing different colored tags might be something to consider in the future.

If we can’t even get a reasonable summary of the key takeaways from these CDI’s I don’t think we should expect to ever see something concrete emerge from them. Lots of players, me included, were delusional enough to think that ANet was finally serious about responding to their player base, but these CDI’s are looking more and more like just a cynical attempt at defer/defect PR to calm the unrest in the forums.

A rat hole is a rat hole no matter what you call it.

Didn’t you read Josh Davis’ post in the WvW forum? They’re essentially starting over (again) with “Give me lists of your concerns.” There’s no intention of doing anything. We’re just getting stonewalled.

^ ’nuff said. Truth

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

I would have to agree it would be nice to see from a High Level View what ANet deemed as valuable take-aways from previous CDI’s.

Unfortunately, in all good conscience, they can’t.

They’re working in a competitive business, and they cannot be distilling hundreds of hours and thousands of posts down into bullet lists of the best, most actionable items for the competition to skim off with no more effort than browsing the forums’ Dev tracker. Amongst several other reasons, that’s probably why they’re looking to move the combined proposal writing into player hands.

There are a lot of people taking a ton of time putting forth herculean efforts to favorably contribute to this process with little feedback on the resulting outcome of their suggestions.

As annoying as it sounds, the feedback has to come essentially no earlier than the preview the patch were the idea goes live.

That extra delay is one reason why I really hope that at that phase they are extremely diligent about drawing a line back to the CDI thread and even specific posts that inspired them. With the time between suggestion and delivery being so long and so carefully hidden, for there to be any sense of payoff they are going to have to work extra hard to acknowledge those contributions or all of our commitment is going quite rightly to dry up.

I was pretty excited to see Scarlet’s Hideout in this update and for her to not be in it. On the other hand I didn’t get to burn the place down and do racial dances in the ashes…

Should I count this as a personal success or just a bit of convergent evolution?

Without their commentary, I have no way of knowing if that CDI post had a contributory impact.

Awesome! We’ve missed you, Chris!

Nike.2631:

/snip

Yes, you are right of course. I just thought it would be nice.

I would have no expectation that any of my Personal contributions would be implemented and thus expect no acknowledgement but if something was put into the game that I commented on, at least I could pretend I made a difference

Due to recent events (read “the implementation of the Watchwork Pick”) it would be really nice and very timely to have a CDI about how the gem store should function.

There seem to be quite a bit of friction between you and the some of the playerbase regarding this topic. And some players in the thread about the matter is suggesting that you ask us what we want and don’t want in the gem store.

Edit: Shortcut to the thread in question in case you have missed it
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dangerous-precedent-Watchwork-Pick/

Cool. I wonder what fun topics we’ll have this time.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Nike.2631:

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

I would have to agree it would be nice to see from a High Level View what ANet deemed as valuable take-aways from previous CDI’s.

Unfortunately, in all good conscience, they can’t.

They’re working in a competitive business, and they cannot be distilling hundreds of hours and thousands of posts down into bullet lists of the best, most actionable items for the competition to skim off with no more effort than browsing the forums’ Dev tracker. Amongst several other reasons, that’s probably why they’re looking to move the combined proposal writing into player hands.

There are a lot of people taking a ton of time putting forth herculean efforts to favorably contribute to this process with little feedback on the resulting outcome of their suggestions.

As annoying as it sounds, the feedback has to come essentially no earlier than the preview the patch were the idea goes live.

That extra delay is one reason why I really hope that at that phase they are extremely diligent about drawing a line back to the CDI thread and even specific posts that inspired them. With the time between suggestion and delivery being so long and so carefully hidden, for there to be any sense of payoff they are going to have to work extra hard to acknowledge those contributions or all of our commitment is going quite rightly to dry up.

I was pretty excited to see Scarlet’s Hideout in this update and for her to not be in it. On the other hand I didn’t get to burn the place down and do racial dances in the ashes…

Should I count this as a personal success or just a bit of convergent evolution?

Without their commentary, I have no way of knowing if that CDI post had a contributory impact.

I am definitely going to expose the impact between previous CDI and evolution in the live game when I get time (More observant community CDI members will already see evolution).

Like you point out Nike, there have been some pretty obvious ones already, but I agree it would be exciting to call out changes in relation to previous CDI proposal/summaries.

Origins of Madness contains a number of evolutions that were heavily impacted by previous CDIs.

Chris

I consider myself observant as hell and I haven’t seen anything come from any of the WvW CDIs. I didn’t expect anything to be implemented in a short time frame, but I did expect at least some indication from you folks whether or not any of the many good ideas raised in those threads aligned with your vision of where WvW was headed. What we have instead now is a total reboot with the inane “3 likes/3 dislikes” thread from Josh. I was at least observant enough to figure out that there’s a bit of diversion going on here.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am definitely going to expose the impact between previous CDI and evolution in the live game when I get time (More observant community CDI members will already see evolution).

We guess. We infer. But we also know we might just be making up connections where they don’t exist. The onus is on ArenaNet to let the players know they have collectively done good

Like you point out Nike, there have been some pretty obvious ones already, but I agree it would be exciting to call out changes in relation to previous CDI proposal/summaries.

I hope this get the priority it deserves. beyond the simple public relations GOLD in showing how responsive ArenaNet is to its players, I think a lot of CDI contributors need to see direct acknowledgement of the process working if they are going to continue to contribute their time. We aren’t in the office, seeing things happen every day.

A little blast from the past I think is pertinent :

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I think i can do better to explain. Honestly your response is excellent, but i need to remember that i have a lot more info than others and that i should provide more context when i make a high level point. I will do better to stay cognoscente of this.

So when the evolution thread starts in earnest…

Origins of Madness contains a number of evolutions that were heavily impacted by previous CDIs.

Hopefully future releases will have that kind of recap of player contributions worked right into the Preview page or a regular, dedicated essay that is part of the lead up to each episode’s launch.

We’ve seen you get the word out through interviews, but there’s opportunities to be had right here on the gW2 website where you know CDI posters hang out .

Chris Whiteside.6102:

videoboy.4162:

Awesome! We’ve missed you, Chris!

I miss you ALL more!!

Chris

get a room, you and… all these dozens of… people… hmm.

i think you’ll need more than just a room…

BrunoBRS.5178:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

videoboy.4162:

Awesome! We’ve missed you, Chris!

I miss you ALL more!!

Chris

get a room, you and… all these dozens of… people… hmm.

i think you’ll need more than just a room…

; )

I’m finding myself with little to say about the CDI process that I haven’t said already, so I’ll just hold off until this topic gets a proper introductory post. Maybe it will give me a little more to add.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am definitely going to expose the impact between previous CDI and evolution in the live game when I get time (More observant community CDI members will already see evolution).

What about the WvW CDis? Seemingly nothing is coming from them. Devon has been silent. Josh has come in and created his own feedback thread which has served to create confusion on what is exactly happening with WvW.

morrolan.9608:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I am definitely going to expose the impact between previous CDI and evolution in the live game when I get time (More observant community CDI members will already see evolution).

What about the WvW CDis? Seemingly nothing is coming from them. Devon has been silent. Josh has come in and created his own feedback thread which has served to create confusion on what is exactly happening with WvW.

I’m pretty certain I know exactly what is happening with WvW. I’ll summarize here:

^ now that’s funny!

morrolan.9608:

What about the WvW CDis? Seemingly nothing is coming from them. Devon has been silent. Josh has come in and created his own feedback thread which has served to create confusion on what is exactly happening with WvW.

Didn’t people hate Devon over his opinions, and other people beg for Josh to “come back”?

Gotta be careful what you wish for and read the fine print before you sign

Of course, I will be representing a minority opinion here, but I really don’t want to design a game with the game developer. I’d much prefer they assume that role. I think it’s great to hear, understand, and incorporate good feedback, but I really don’t think that joint development is appropriate or possible.

Raine.1394:

Of course, I will be representing a minority opinion here, but I really don’t want to design a game with the game developer. I’d much prefer they assume that role. I think it’s great to hear, understand, and incorporate good feedback, but I really don’t think that joint development is appropriate or possible.

It’s worth noting we’re not developing it with them so much as this is a place they can listen to our ideas, concerns, criticisms, and communicate back when possible about them . . . on a central topic rather than on a broad range of them. So a more focused sort of forum.

I’d say we’re behaving more like a “focus group” than “collaborating developer”.

It’s been noted several times during the CDIs, however, ideas and input are not guaranteed to be included or acted upon. There was only a promise to listen and discuss it, not to use. The final call still is on ArenaNet.

So you pessimists out there? Yes, that does technically mean they could use absolutely nothing from the CDI threads and still be “in the right” about it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Raine.1394:

Of course, I will be representing a minority opinion here, but I really don’t want to design a game with the game developer. I’d much prefer they assume that role. I think it’s great to hear, understand, and incorporate good feedback, but I really don’t think that joint development is appropriate or possible.

It’s worth noting we’re not developing it with them so much as this is a place they can listen to our ideas, concerns, criticisms, and communicate back when possible about them . . . on a central topic rather than on a broad range of them. So a more focused sort of forum.

I’d say we’re behaving more like a “focus group” than “collaborating developer”.

It’s been noted several times during the CDIs, however, ideas and input are not guaranteed to be included or acted upon. There was only a promise to listen and discuss it, not to use. The final call still is on ArenaNet.

So you pessimists out there? Yes, that does technically mean they could use absolutely nothing from the CDI threads and still be “in the right” about it.

We already have the forums and feedback is the purpose of the forums. What I don’t understand is the purpose of the CDI. Personally, I’m not pessimistic, just searching for signs of intelligent life.

Edit: to your point, what does CDI stand for?

Raine.1394:

We already have the forums and feedback is the purpose of the forums. What I don’t understand is the purpose of the CDI. Personally, I’m not pessimistic, just searching for signs of intelligent life.

. . . on the Internet?

Though, seriously, from what I can gather the CDI is a focused topic the forums agree on (as much as they can) and the devs put up a topic for people to weigh in, every now and then dropping in their own input. Then they bundle it all up and take it to a meeting room to discuss it in private.

Sort of like the last time I went to a bureaucratic focus group meeting. Seriously, it’s a thing I took part in once where a school board wanted feedback from administrators, students, parents, and teachers. They invited about 200 people to a convention hall on a Saturday, provided coffee, donuts, and fruit, and had a stage where someone from the board stood up there with a transparency film (remember those?) and a projector taking notes. As well as easels with paper and Sharpie markers in the lobby. End of the day they packed it all into boxes and took it back to the administration building.

Surprisingly the CDI has a better track record for listening and comprehending than that school board

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Raine.1394:

We already have the forums and feedback is the purpose of the forums. What I don’t understand is the purpose of the CDI. Personally, I’m not pessimistic, just searching for signs of intelligent life.

. . . on the Internet?

Though, seriously, from what I can gather the CDI is a focused topic the forums agree on (as much as they can) and the devs put up a topic for people to weigh in, every now and then dropping in their own input. Then they bundle it all up and take it to a meeting room to discuss it in private.

Sort of like the last time I went to a bureaucratic focus group meeting. Seriously, it’s a thing I took part in once where a school board wanted feedback from administrators, students, parents, and teachers. They invited about 200 people to a convention hall on a Saturday, provided coffee, donuts, and fruit, and had a stage where someone from the board stood up there with a transparency film (remember those?) and a projector taking notes. As well as easels with paper and Sharpie markers in the lobby. End of the day they packed it all into boxes and took it back to the administration building.

Surprisingly the CDI has a better track record for listening and comprehending than that school board

I’m reminded of a town meeting in VT on the Bob Newhart show. He said, “what we need here is a stupid alert.” I like Bob Newhart a lot. CDI has to do with cooperative development. That is what I have a problem with. A game should not be cooperatively developed. That’s the job of the game developer. Hopefully they have some ideas whose time has come. The old Anet that marketed this game had a lot of great ideas. Those ideas seem to have faded to the extent they have interacted with the playerbase. Sad, really.

Raine.1394:

I’m reminded of a town meeting in VT on the Bob Newhart show. He said, “what we need here is a stupid alert.” I like Bob Newhart a lot. CDI has to do with cooperative development. That is what I have a problem with. A game should not be cooperatively developed. That’s the job of the game developer. Hopefully they have some ideas whose time has come. The old Anet that marketed this game had a lot of great ideas. Those ideas seem to have faded to the extent they have interacted with the playerbase. Sad, really.

To be fair? The players did sort of demand it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

morrolan.9608:

What about the WvW CDis? Seemingly nothing is coming from them. Devon has been silent. Josh has come in and created his own feedback thread which has served to create confusion on what is exactly happening with WvW.

Didn’t people hate Devon over his opinions, and other people beg for Josh to “come back”?

Gotta be careful what you wish for and read the fine print before you sign

I don’t believe Josh ever worked with WvW. They did ask for Habib to come back though (not really: just in a “we’d rather see Habib than Devon” way).

In any case, they’re all the same anyway:

• Promise to listen.
• Ask for lists of concerns.
• Do nothing.
• Do nothing.
• Rename Guard Leech.
• Exit the rotating door for the next person to come in.