Guild Wars 2

I can’t see kitten. I just “swing away” and pray I hit a home run.

There are several separate issues:

1. Clutter from the various HUD (heads-up display) interfaces. Currently the only choice is to hide it all or show it all. GW1 allowed us to hide, resize, and move individual elements. → Proposal: enable this for as many HUD elements as possible.
2. Particle effects overwhelming foes and allies alike. Currently the only options are to tone it down slightly or make it look uglier. In contrast, for sound, we can choose to change the volume of music, effects, dialogue, etc. → Proposal: allow us to turn the brightness down on various effects or turn them off entirely. Elements might include fields, projectiles, weapon and armor effects, special animations (e.g. birds), etc.
3. Various aspects of the HUD aren’t as “smart” as they could be. For example, the mini-map control panel auto-hide sometimes hides the WP you want to click. e.g. the party display takes up a lot of real estate, but if you use “simple” than you lose information (like some effects on party members). e.g. it’s hard to see if a target has a reflecting effect up, because the icons keep moving around. → Proposal: ask players for a priority list of “quality of life” changes to the “smartness” of the UI.

OmniPotentes.4817:

I can’t see kitten. I just “swing away” and pray I hit a home run.

ROFL! Me too.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Aza.2105:

Hey Colin,

I would like to see Anet address the insane particle effects.

I can never anticipate when to dodge the statue of dwayna attacks because of this. You can barely make out the enemy model. Particle effects are nice and all, but in gw2 they are overly done. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this issue in any mmorpg I’ve played.

Yeah we’ve done a number of steps already this year to improve it, but we have a long ways to go to get it cleaned up to the point we’re happy with. It’s something we’re continuing to work on for sure, but we’re focusing way more on game performance currently before we turn back to the FX side.

Sounds good, I’m glad your team acknowledges the issue. Also, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.

OmniPotentes.4817:

I can’t see kitten. I just “swing away” and pray I hit a home run.

Swing away Merrill

ColinJohanson.2394:

Yeah we’ve done a number of steps already this year to improve it, but we have a long ways to go to get it cleaned up to the point we’re happy with. It’s something we’re continuing to work on for sure, but we’re focusing way more on game performance currently before we turn back to the FX side.

If I was able to control the spell level of detail, it would also increase performance in zergs and other areas with lots of people. Why is this considered only a FX issue?

What does LOD though? Ive tried it on and off – but there’s no difference at all that I can see. Certainly doesn’t affect the Dwayna problem which makes it near impossible to look at the screen during the priestess or statue phases

I don’t think the LOD levels are strong enough – even on the lowest LOD, I still find there is far too much effects noise. Combined with inflexible UI, specifically miniscule condition/buff icons I can’t relocate or scale, I find the game UI one of the worst I’ve played, especially for PVP.

JonPeters.5630:

What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly. A cursory look at the data seems like they are setup, but there might be some caveats in how the Effect LOD system works that keeps it from turning on for those instances because it is an “important” boss. I’ll dig a bit deeper when I can.

Jon

And this is the problem. You (Anet) seem to have an issue with me, client side, controlling what I see on MY monitor. Instead you want to control it from YOUR side.

Give me the options, let me set my preferences, and be done with it. I don’t want an LOD to kick in. I want to hide useless, not needed visual pollution ALL THE TIME.

I don’t use my warriors Signet of rage because of the stupid, annoying golden bubbles of whatever I get from it, full time. I don’t want to see idiotic themed footsteps or annoying weapons spam. That being said, I don’t want to deny others from seeing it if that is their choice.

Client side. Please. Options, Please. The LOD setting does nothing to address the unrelenting, unwanted constant spam of Particle effects not even relating to combat.
Just standing in LA is painful.

It’s just like when we suggest a show/hide option for story prompts. Anet responds as if we were teenagers asking for whiskey and car keys.

LOD option is not viable for wvw. It hides important fields such as statics, lines of warding. it doesnt reduce the effect, it removes it completely.

kailin.4905:

OmniPotentes.4817:

I can’t see kitten. I just “swing away” and pray I hit a home run.

Swing away Merrill

kitten skippy!

And when confronting a Zerg you know it’s time to get the hell outta doge when your health bar instantly drops to 10%.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

JonPeters.5630:

What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly. A cursory look at the data seems like they are setup, but there might be some caveats in how the Effect LOD system works that keeps it from turning on for those instances because it is an “important” boss. I’ll dig a bit deeper when I can.

Jon

And this is the problem. You (Anet) seem to have an issue with me, client side, controlling what I see on MY monitor. Instead you want to control it from YOUR side.

Give me the options, let me set my preferences, and be done with it. I don’t want an LOD to kick in. I want to hide useless, not needed visual pollution ALL THE TIME.

I don’t use my warriors Signet of rage because of the stupid, annoying golden bubbles of whatever I get from it, full time. I don’t want to see idiotic themed footsteps or annoying weapons spam. That being said, I don’t want to deny others from seeing it if that is their choice.

Client side. Please. Options, Please. The LOD setting does nothing to address the unrelenting, unwanted constant spam of Particle effects not even relating to combat.
Just standing in LA is painful.

It’s just like when we suggest a show/hide option for story prompts. Anet responds as if we were teenagers asking for whiskey and car keys.

Wish I could vote this as THE BEST POST/SUGGESTION TO DATE and should be added to a suggestion forum labled must have suggestions that only devs could place said suggestions, along with a few others that have been suggested.

I would just like to say that, since the LOD option was introduced, the only noticeable thing it has done to reduce on-screen effects while enabled is completely hide my arrows being shot from my short bow (whether in an effect heavy area or standing in a room by myself). That’s all. As I actually like to see my arrows being fired, and their removal being the only noticeable change from my extensive testing with the option, I will not be enabling it until I see an actual effect-limiting system implemented. Thank you anyway.

I see people saying how important effects are because of combination fields etc. But what good is that if it makes performance so bad you are stuck just spamming 1111 anyway in most situations where combo fields are preferable to try to use. I really don’t mind the ui that bad although move options and scaling would be nice. I think my issue is more of a combination of bad camera, lots of effect overkill, and bad performance of the engine. Like I mentioned in an earlier post I fought the lich probably 50x and never did really “see” it. I find that to be a kitten shame because the game IS beautiful but you miss a lot of it.

How about when your character is in range, the line of sight becomes clear for your character. So while there is tons of effects happening on a boss, your character can see right through it, sort of like Superman’s x-ray vision, who can see in front of him no matter what is blocking his sight. This way you can make out an enemy’s move.

This just popped in my head, thought I’d share it.

I don’t know how well it would work but you mentioned superman, x ray vision, and your handle is my favorite drink…you have earned my vote.

JonPeters.5630:

What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen.

There’s the problem. As we know, effects scale with the target’s size.

Certain effects can cause incredible clutter in a single instance (on enlarged models especially) – check guardian’s activated F1 or the Flame Blast from Sigil of Fire.
Even a single one of each effect is already well beyond enough to cause you a seizure. Multiple instances of the same effect cause little increase in the clutter (2 same effects on the same target look almost like a single one )

I have never noticed a difference with the LOD option. Either it doesn’t do anything noticeably or it never triggers.

Either way it doesn’t work and our screens are a total unreadable mess in most (if not all) significant fights. I can see my fights against bunny rabbits clearly though, not quite the immersive combat system I was hoping for.

My wishlist is:

1. An option to put a 30%-60% Alpha black circle behind the mouse pointer so it always stands out.

2. An option that will dim the screen black except for your UI and your targeting receptacle while ground targeting.

goldenwing.8473:

Guild joke since beta: apparently ANet believes the “skill” required by players is finding the target. :p

Sadly, for me, that’s true. I kept dying because I wasn’t able to even sometimes find my own character in the midst of things! That’s why I switched my Warrior to GS so I can charge toward the target (and it usually gets the direction right, too), and just spam skills (watching the cast meter) while I wait for charge cooldown to repeat the process ad nauseum.

JonPeters.5630:

What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly. A cursory look at the data seems like they are setup, but there might be some caveats in how the Effect LOD system works that keeps it from turning on for those instances because it is an “important” boss. I’ll dig a bit deeper when I can.

Jon

Necro-bump.
Do we have any updates on the availability of particle effects reduction?

It’s so bad in some fights, I can tell if I’m standing in front or behind the boss. I can’t even see the boss at all, much less any tells I’m supposed to be watching for.

OmniPotentes.4817:

And when confronting a Zerg you know it’s time to get the hell outta doge when your health bar instantly drops to 10%.

But at that time you are stunned, dazed, knocked down and immobilized among other things.

I run Asura warrior and trying to hit something in zerg fighting is near impossible. Either I’m past our def line and die, or I’m too far back and aren’t hitting anything. I can’t see the damage numbers even, so until fight is over (or I’m dead) I have no idea how well I’m doing.
Just last night I had great fun in zerg in EB. People were gongratulating each others and talking how we killed those enemy zergs and got tons of loot bags. Me? I got three, as I was too far back, but there were 30 Norn’s and Chars on top of me along with all that light show that obscured those damage numbers, so I didn’t know where I was standing.

This is still really bad and it isn’t just in zergs. Dungeon groups can provide enough flare that you can’t see mobs properly, neither their facing nor their animations.

A fix for the performance hit in smoke would be welcome too. Just a couple of dredge bombers can drive my game to a crawl.

This is well worth a necro-bump. The particle effects completely obliterate all fights and game-play.

When you consider all the art-work and animation effort that has gone into this game just for some kid to throw a huge pot of ugly coloured paint over the screen 60 times a second, its just crazy.

The game needs a way to separate friendly particle effect from enemy particle effect and have a way to turn off the friendly one as it’s the one causing all the problem. I need to see enemy effects, such as red rings. Truthfully, I have no real use for friendly fields in this game as the combo effects aren’t that important and we are usually stacked on the boss anyway. Any combo field will get dropped at my feet whether I see them or not.

When we target something in game, the objects contours is highlighted in green.
Why can’t we have an option to have a similar contour visible whenever the target has too many effects on it?

This is what I think each and every time on the last boss in the Urban Fractal; you can’t see his animations due to all the particles that covers him.

(Attachments are bugging out)

All I want right now is:

• Being able to set first person
• A way to move the target portrait away from the freaking middle of the screen, right where the target will be most of the time on screen where it covers the target itself.
• An option that can be activated to show little icons on top of foes when they are covered by visuals, that show the skill they are activating, and activation progression as a white border getting drawn around the icon, and the icon just going up fast with instant activation skills.

Liquid Swords.1740:

WoW was so nice looking with the right UI. I understand not having a custom UI from Anets pov so I am fine with the one as is. Here is an example of what WoW looked like most of the time with LUI for me. Couldn’t find a pic of my own but got this quick on google to show how clean looking it was.

True, but after just about any patch, you’d have half your UI break. I loved the beautiful UI I was able to create in WoW, but having to constantly update addons, find replacements when my favorites were no longer supported, and reconfigure settings when things changed was a major, major pain in the butt.

I got a trial for my WoW account about a week ago to try checking the game out again, but realizing how bad that game is without all the addons is one of the reasons I didn’t go back.

kailin.4905:

All other issues aside with this game aside…does it just seem to be getting more and more screen cluttered? I know I’m getting old but after having recently been in some other mmo betas I came back to gw2 and was amazed at how messy it felt. I don’t feel like I can ever see whats going on in many circumstances due to the akward ui, spell graphics, bad camera, and just overall clutter. I see people on here talking about looking for cast animations and things like that but I don’t reasonably understand how you can see i minute gesture through all the rest of the mess. Then with the terrible optimization it just seems to make the issues all the worse. Can other people really see these things?

Yeah I can’t focus on cast animations and things either through all that crap.

Having a slider to tone down particle effects is nice and all, especially for performance, but shouldn’t the game have good visibility even with all the effects turned on?

I mean, I kind of rely on seeing the spells, in order to dodge them (although having to dodge empty red rings is already a bit of an issue). So hiding all the spells reduces the clutter, but doesn’t make the combat more visible (only the boss hiding underneath all that clutter).

It seems to me this may be an issue with the art direction, that could be solved if better visibility was introduced for monsters and their attacks.

All I want for Christmas is a movable target frame.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I mean, I kind of rely on seeing the spells, in order to dodge them (although having to dodge empty red rings is already a bit of an issue).

You don’t have to dodge the spells cast by your own team… and the spells coming from the enemies are not the problem. At least in PvE, the situations where I don’t see skritt on the screen are mostly boss fights, with 30+ players unloading all their particle effects in one place.

Even in WvW, if you were able to tone down friendly spells’ particle effects, it would cut the clutter in half.

Enemies’ spells need to be seen, but nobody is debating that. Remember when the culling solution rolled in to allow better visibility of other players… but the monsters were sill invisible? That wasn’t helpful at all.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Enemies’ spells need to be seen, but nobody is debating that. Remember when the culling solution rolled in to allow better visibility of other players… but the monsters were sill invisible? That wasn’t helpful at all.

Yes, that was kind of what I meant. Enemy attacks should still be visible (and they could use some improved visibility in general), but its the player’s spells you want to hide.

But even with the option to hide particle effects in place, shouldn’t the game have better visibility even with all effects turned on? Is there no solution to make the bosses stand out more, even when we have all the particle effects on top of them? Because with a powerful pc, I like to turn everything up as much as possible. That shouldn’t negatively affect the gameplay. Seems like a bit of a fault on the side of the art direction.

Phy.2913:

All I want for Christmas is a movable target frame.

OMG or “display Target’s target”

I may not be able to see my target, but at least i’ll know if he can see me!

Shifu.4321:

You must not have played World of Warcraft

Still, in WoW there was no need to dodge the boss one-shot attack, unlike GW2

WoW also has a very UI-driven combat, unlike GW2. GW2 relies on animations to provided a dynamic combat. Problem is that effect clutter these telegraphs/animations, and you can’t see, thus you can’t dodge and you die.

This is why Effect’s clutter is such a big issue in GW2 compared to other games.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Shifu.4321:

You must not have played World of Warcraft

Still, in WoW there was no need to dodge the boss one-shot attack, unlike GW2

WoW also has a very UI-driven combat, unlike GW2. GW2 relies on animations to provided a dynamic combat. Problem is that effect clutter these telegraphs/animations, and you can’t see, thus you can’t dodge and you die.

This is why Effect’s clutter is such a big issue in GW2 compared to other games.

I main tanked and off-tanked a lot in WOW, and there were a lot of bosses that you had to dodge some form of attack.

Phy.2913:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Shifu.4321:

You must not have played World of Warcraft

Still, in WoW there was no need to dodge the boss one-shot attack, unlike GW2

WoW also has a very UI-driven combat, unlike GW2. GW2 relies on animations to provided a dynamic combat. Problem is that effect clutter these telegraphs/animations, and you can’t see, thus you can’t dodge and you die.

This is why Effect’s clutter is such a big issue in GW2 compared to other games.

I main tanked and off-tanked a lot in WOW, and there were a lot of bosses that you had to dodge some form of attack.

WoW also had a system for resource management (mana, focus, rage, etc), so there was actually a penalty for running your finger down the skill bar to use all of your spells. WoW would look a lot more like GW2 if there was no penalty for using every skill every time it’s off cooldown.

It was my first time trying out Dwayna yesterday. I went on my ele. Got oneshot or nearly oneshot more than a few times since I couldn’t see what the boss was actually doing, and only managed to dodge a few of her attacks.

This really needs to be fixed :c. Effects aren’t like this in other games. Sure, they are pretty here, but that’s meaningless to me if it means I can’t see boss tells.

storiessave.3807:

It was my first time trying out Dwayna yesterday. I went on my ele. Got oneshot or nearly oneshot more than a few times since I couldn’t see what the boss was actually doing, and only managed to dodge a few of her attacks.

This really needs to be fixed :c. Effects aren’t like this in other games. Sure, they are pretty here, but that’s meaningless to me if it means I can’t see boss tells.

If you’re talking about the statue rather than the Risen Priestess… I find it easier to see her tells than most bosses. Use staff on your ele, stay at range, pull the camera back as far as it will go and pan up. Her one ranged attack involves lifting a hand and sending out a bunch of light-effects that target pretty much everyone there. Both the hand and the light effects are above the particle blur and are not hard to see if you are panned back and up.

IndigoSundown.5419:

storiessave.3807:

It was my first time trying out Dwayna yesterday. I went on my ele. Got oneshot or nearly oneshot more than a few times since I couldn’t see what the boss was actually doing, and only managed to dodge a few of her attacks.

This really needs to be fixed :c. Effects aren’t like this in other games. Sure, they are pretty here, but that’s meaningless to me if it means I can’t see boss tells.

If you’re talking about the statue rather than the Risen Priestess… I find it easier to see her tells than most bosses. Use staff on your ele, stay at range, pull the camera back as far as it will go and pan up. Her one ranged attack involves lifting a hand and sending out a bunch of light-effects that target pretty much everyone there. Both the hand and the light effects are above the particle blur and are not hard to see if you are panned back and up.

Yeah, I’m a D/D build, so being right on top of her, it’s difficult to see. Definitely going to use ranged next time, but we really shouldn’t have to use ranged weapons just to be able to see the boss. ._.

Odd thing is, on some bosses, spell effects aren’t overpowering. Oaks, for example, aren’t completely engulfed in flames the whole time. You can see them pretty easily. Smaller bosses, though, and even some other large ones are really hard to see through the effects. I really wonder why they don’t just do the same thing they did with oaks to the rest of the champs/bosses…unless it’s more complicated than it seems, for some reason.

i turned my character model limit to the lowest (along with other recommended changes to reduce particle effects), hoping it would make things clearer in zerg fights. The funny thing is, i don’t see players but i still see their spell effects, so it really didn’t help much. Please fix the particle effects or give us UI tools that let us navigate through them.

Again. These guys do NOT play their own game. There is absolutely no way.

From DAY 1 of the Beta, the first review video I saw was a guy playing and making a remark about how the particle effects were sort of ridiculous and there was no major zerg going on.

Fast forward to now, everyone has particle LOD option ticked and it doesn’t make a difference. What makes it worse is that ANET keeps creating cluster kitten zerg fest content where people get downed and killed by things they don’t even see. Nobody knows what’s going on you just let your auto attacks fly and pray.

This is the type of kitten, that makes me log right off. The oblivious and lack of sense of urgency on these things from ANet is what makes me want to /uninstall.

This ongoing ignoring of issues like this is what puts the battery in the back of a so called “hater” like myself. Just remember the worst kind of hate comes from people who used to love.

April can’t get here sooner.

Do you even play the game? I have a lot of complaints regarding the new lion’s arch event, but particle effects obscuring bosses & their attacks is not one of them. I’ve never had an easier time dodging boss attacks than with the knights and hologram. The telegraphed attacks are blatant, and appreciated.

If you’re getting killed by things you can’t see, you need to pay closer attention.

I wish threads had an option for placing -1 votes.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Shifu.4321:

You must not have played World of Warcraft

Omg! Are u kidding me? How could u possibly play with all that stuff on ur screen? OMG lol never seen anything like it.

Meh, that’s a paladin running Healbot. If he’s healing he doesn’t need to see the boss any more than he already can, just the raid’s healthbars, which are helpfully front and center.

I loved how customizable WoW UI was (through mods at least). However, I always went for the opposite. Hide as much as possible, make everything else as small as possible. Was a healer too and a good one at that btw.

I wish they’d allow more UI customization in GW2. Regarding particel effects, let’s just say I have a really hard time playing my ground-targeting only engi build (nades+turrets) properly, because there is no way to see the green circles through all the effects.

edit: The UI in general could use a drastic overhaul anyway. The TP mask can’t even safe search settings or results + there are not nearly enough search options (armor type for example). All windows are way to big, so even with 1900×1000 resolution I cannot have 2 of them next to eachother (there is always overlapping and hidden- but important- elements). And frankly, it’s not the prettiest UI I’ve ever seen.

wolfpaq.7354:

Do you even play the game? I have a lot of complaints regarding the new lion’s arch event, but particle effects obscuring bosses & their attacks is not one of them. I’ve never had an easier time dodging boss attacks than with the knights and hologram. The telegraphed attacks are blatant, and appreciated.

If you’re getting killed by things you can’t see, you need to pay closer attention.

The event champs in LA were what prompted me to tone down my character model limit. The knights and holo scarlet aren’t that bad, but like teq, it’s easy to see what the boss is doing when it’s the size of a building :P

Each patch it seems like they are improving the visibility of boss actions, but they never fix any of the old problems. I feel like the people that originally coded that stuff moved on to other jobs and the remaining staff don’t know how to change it.

The visual clutter is one reason dodge isn’t great in PvE imo. Nothing to do with the UI. It is difficult even to learn dungeon encounters in this game. They are very dependent on dodging if you want to use DPS gear, and it’s difficult to recognize tells in the middle of the big mess. Dodge is a “twitch” mechanic, but in this game it requires no “twitch” skill (topic for another thread). The only challenge is trying to figure out what is happening on the screen, which doesn’t scream brilliant action game to me. I’ve even seen it suggested that players learn to dodge entirely by feel, or “using the force” as I call it. That’s not good. Improving the UI is wonderful, but unless you’re improving it in such a way that it will tell me when to dodge and what attacks enemies are using, it’s not addressing this particular issue.

TLDR if this is supposed to be an action game, I need to see what’s going on.