Can anyone really see through the clutter?
Do you even play the game? I have a lot of complaints regarding the new lion’s arch event, but particle effects obscuring bosses & their attacks is not one of them. I’ve never had an easier time dodging boss attacks than with the knights and hologram. The telegraphed attacks are blatant, and appreciated.
If you’re getting killed by things you can’t see, you need to pay closer attention.
Do you even READ? I didn’t talk about any specific event or attack. It’s a general and widely documented problem. Not every AoE ring is big yellow/orange one. Yes, you’re THAT guy. Good job.
I agree with the special fx cluttering the screen at times. Of course this usually only happens when there’s a substantial amount of players or npcs but granted it is irritating. I think what would be good is if the enemies aren’t obscured by the effects as much. For example flame bursts being semi transparent where the enemy is so they arent blocked by opaque fire but you can still see a little bit of the flames in front of the enemy.
I don’t see anything but name tags, and I sometimes see the boss, sometimes don’t. Particles don’t dissapear.
If I could make a suggestion. Making the lowest setting for the effects where we can see the attack move from player to target but none of the explosions or lingering effects other then our own. that way we know attacks are still flying and from where. then just gradually bring it up starting with ground fields appearing then lingering effects and explosions.
I turn my performance settings to lowest in this kind of huge mob event anyway and I can verify it started to get pretty hard seeing when the Knight was jumping in order to dodge the pull. All the projectiles flying and effects even on lowest settings made it difficult to see what was going on.
Can anyone really see through the clutter?
No.
I just hit dodge every few secs and spam skills that add to the on screen clutter and pray to the gods of Tyria for good luck…seems to work 99.99% of the time…
The effect spam is really a big issue. Half of the time I can’t see what any boss is doing, until it hits me. This wouldn’t be so bad, if the bosses had proper audio cues for their attacks… but they don’t. And almost all of the enemies in the game spam conditions around them at random. You’re basically getting hit by random conditions constantly, without any clear attacks that are causing it. It’s like every enemy has an aura of pain around it, and I dislike that. I prefer that a game allows me to avoid every attack, and not just the ones that really hurt.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Audio cues would be greatly welcomed. In the battle, i can only rely on whats on the screen…and i see a mess in zerg content.
The big bosses where this is an issue, are tall to be more visible in the crowd. I can decide if i tilt my camera up to try and see through the particle effects what the boss is doing, or just keep my view on the ground and watch for red or orange circles. Guess what i decide to do.
It was said in development that Anet wants us to look at the game instead of the UI, but at this point the red circles are part of the UI. With the orange telegraphs they are more so. (dont misunderstand me, with the amount of kittens on the screen its very helpful, but sadly necessary)
And on the side-note to UI: Whenever i would try to look at the tall boss im fighting, i have to tilt the camera an additional 30 degrees so that the nameplate UI doesnt conceal half of the model. Having some standard UI placement customisation would be great…
SIGIL OF FIRE.
This thing is half the issue.
There are a lot of “parts” in this problem.
1. The amount of particle effects on the screen is still too high even with Effect LOD on, players need more control over this, slider would be perfect.
2. Lots of bosses have small models, no distinct animations, effects on animations and graphic/sound effects on skills. Thus it’s often impossible to tell what is going on with all the clutter, the boss himself often is not visible at all, i.e. during priest of Melandru fight, all you can see is 123445657678 particles and sometimes a white silhouette of a priest appears for a second. How it should be done, one could see, for example, in Tera. Big mobs, distinct animations for skills plus graphic and sound effects for especially dangerous attacks.
3. And last, the particle effects scale with the mob’s model. The bigger the mob, the bigger the effects are. Like, instead of a normal fire blast on Sigil of Fire proc you will get a freaking napalm carpet bombing effect all over your screen, etc.
these new telegraphs are pretty helpful. Now I can at least tell when somethings coming and where its gonna hit. so I big thank you to anet on finally giving us a real ring and not that crappy thin line on the ground. Even if I can’t help but feel you got the idea from Wildstar’s telegraphs
What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly…
Jon
Why not set up varying values for how noisy effects are and let US decide to either have them at OVERKILL (current setting) or COMPLETELY off? Same with the UI customization. Why are Devs seemingly adamant on restricting player options?
(edited by X The Manimal.5293)
What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly…
JonWhy not set up varying values for how noisy effects are and let US decide to either have them at OVERKILL (current setting) or COMPLETELY off? Same with the UI customization. Why are Devs seemingly restricting player options?
Every single time someone has a complaint on this forum the solution is to “give us an option to toggle it on/off”, so that way everybody’s happy. If the devs did that every time someone suggested it, do you know how ridiculously cluttered the options menu would be?
What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly…
JonWhy not set up varying values for how noisy effects are and let US decide to either have them at OVERKILL (current setting) or COMPLETELY off? Same with the UI customization. Why are Devs seemingly restricting player options?
Every single time someone has a complaint on this forum the solution is to “give us an option to toggle it on/off”, so that way everybody’s happy. If the devs did that every time someone suggested it, do you know how ridiculously cluttered the options menu would be?
Have you played other MMOs? Their options menus are nowhere near cluttered yet they implement such features. Final Fantasy XIV being a PRIME example for particle effects. And your last question is silly, of course if ANet implemented EVERY SINGLE feature asked for then the game would become unplayable even. However, this issue is a very key one that is causing the enjoyment level of this game to go way down for MANY people. Have you even read the rest of the posts on here? Take a look at the screenshots of particles covering the entire screen and tell me if that looks good to you.
(edited by X The Manimal.5293)
I gave up playing EVE last year.So fed up with all the glitzy annoying addons.Changes which were not needed.The ui was horrendous .Bug fixing known issues seemed low down one to do list. Gw2 is just the same.When we had tiny little computers with tinier hard drives game development needed to keep things very simple.I get the impression that nearly everything is turning into bloatware.Games software,browsers,all have everything we can ever need.But its impossible to turn the bits not required off.I need a faster cpu, bigger hard drive,faster too, and a bigger faster gpu.All to while away a couple of hours of relaxation.
What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly…
JonWhy not set up varying values for how noisy effects are and let US decide to either have them at OVERKILL (current setting) or COMPLETELY off? Same with the UI customization. Why are Devs seemingly restricting player options?
Every single time someone has a complaint on this forum the solution is to “give us an option to toggle it on/off”, so that way everybody’s happy. If the devs did that every time someone suggested it, do you know how ridiculously cluttered the options menu would be?
I’ll take a cluttered options menu which I only have to access once or infrequently over a cluttered main game window which I have to deal with every second I’m logged into the game.
What is does is start to reduce the amount of particles and details on effects once you have a certain # of them on screen. This system relies on us manually setting up a value for how noisy any given effect is so if turning it on does nothing in certain areas, we could simply not have set those effects up correctly…
JonWhy not set up varying values for how noisy effects are and let US decide to either have them at OVERKILL (current setting) or COMPLETELY off? Same with the UI customization. Why are Devs seemingly restricting player options?
Every single time someone has a complaint on this forum the solution is to “give us an option to toggle it on/off”, so that way everybody’s happy. If the devs did that every time someone suggested it, do you know how ridiculously cluttered the options menu would be?
Have you played other MMOs? Their options menus are nowhere near cluttered yet they implement such features. Final Fantasy XIV being a PRIME example for particle effects. And your last question is silly, of course if ANet implemented EVERY SINGLE feature asked for then the game would become unplayable even. However, this issue is a very key one that is causing the enjoyment level of this game to go way down for MANY people. Have you even read the rest of the posts on here? Take a look at the screenshots of particles covering the entire screen and tell me if that looks good to you.
Everyone thinks their issue is the most important one. ANet have said they’re looking for a solution, and maybe they’d find one qiucker if the community had a suggestion beyond “give us an option to toggle it on/off”. Case in point: I just saw a reddit post complaining about the aegis effect on Tormented Shields on guardians. I get three comments down before reading “I’d prefer it if we could turn off the aegis effect though…”. Name almost any cosmetic issue with the game. You get exactly the same suggestion, every single time. Just try it – from now on, try keeping an eye out and take note every time suggests a toggle option, for anything. It’s far more common than I think you realise.
What kind of developer forces these setting on their players?
I just started playing FFXIV ARR and they have a setting where I can adjust everyone elses spell effects. I can even turn them all completely off! This. Is. Awesome.
Never miss a dodge again.I don’t know why we aren’t getting an official response specifically addressing spell clutter. Would allowing players to reduce it make the game too easy, because dodging was meant to be artificially difficult due to spell clutter blocking boss telegraphs? Can a developer look at the screenshots below and genuinely say they can tell what is going on? For a game that is marketed on dynamic combat and “play the game, not the UI”, it is an utter failure that this issue which players have been complaining about since beta has gone on deaf ears—even Colin’s post in this thread avoided it.
Anet may not want to tell you all this, but this is something hard coded into the game code.
Thats why they are having trouble simply removing the large particle effects.
They have to dig deep into the code, which cost large sum of money to fix these issues when its something that deeply programmed into the code of the game.
What kind of developer forces these setting on their players?
I just started playing FFXIV ARR and they have a setting where I can adjust everyone elses spell effects. I can even turn them all completely off! This. Is. Awesome.
Never miss a dodge again.I don’t know why we aren’t getting an official response specifically addressing spell clutter. Would allowing players to reduce it make the game too easy, because dodging was meant to be artificially difficult due to spell clutter blocking boss telegraphs? Can a developer look at the screenshots below and genuinely say they can tell what is going on? For a game that is marketed on dynamic combat and “play the game, not the UI”, it is an utter failure that this issue which players have been complaining about since beta has gone on deaf ears—even Colin’s post in this thread avoided it.
Anet may not want to tell you all this, but this is something hard coded into the game code.
Thats why they are having trouble simply removing the large particle effects.
They have to dig deep into the code, which cost large sum of money to fix these issues when its something that deeply programmed into the code of the game.
oh I’m sure once someone sues for having a seizure due to the bright rapid multi color flashes caused by zergs they be pretty quick to find a way. As some anet staff have recently posted on another thread. The FX part of the game not really being focused on at this time. least not until they have fixed more critical bugged areas
Anet may not want to tell you all this, but this is something hard coded into the game code.
Thats why they are having trouble simply removing the large particle effects.
They have to dig deep into the code, which cost large sum of money to fix these issues when its something that deeply programmed into the code of the game.
I highly doubt that changing the scaling on particle effects is really such a big deal as you make it out to be. I’m not going to presume it is a difficult thing to change, unless the developers explicitly say so.
The new aoe circles are a huge improvement. Although on a critical note, what they basically did was overwrite the noise, by creating an effect even noisier that tops every other effect. I’m still hoping that they’ll tone the effects down a bit.
And I really hope that at some point they start adding sound cues for bosses.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
I agree with the OP. This is the only MMO I’ve played where you can’t zoom the camera out to an appropriate level, so everything usually looks cramped on the screen. It is especially bad when travelling over elevated terrain, because the camera stays fixed, magnifying the effect. I’ve heard the pseudo-arguments why the camera is the way it is, but they just don’t hold water as every other game I’ve played don’t see zooming out a problem.
What kind of developer forces these setting on their players?
I just started playing FFXIV ARR and they have a setting where I can adjust everyone elses spell effects. I can even turn them all completely off! This. Is. Awesome.
Never miss a dodge again.I don’t know why we aren’t getting an official response specifically addressing spell clutter. Would allowing players to reduce it make the game too easy, because dodging was meant to be artificially difficult due to spell clutter blocking boss telegraphs? Can a developer look at the screenshots below and genuinely say they can tell what is going on? For a game that is marketed on dynamic combat and “play the game, not the UI”, it is an utter failure that this issue which players have been complaining about since beta has gone on deaf ears—even Colin’s post in this thread avoided it.
Anet may not want to tell you all this, but this is something hard coded into the game code.
Thats why they are having trouble simply removing the large particle effects.
They have to dig deep into the code, which cost large sum of money to fix these issues when its something that deeply programmed into the code of the game.
Particle generation is a fairly straightforward system in games. Not sure what you are talking about to be honest.
The only “coding” they would have to invest in is a system that automatically scales effects down in large fights. One that works much better than their current solution.
What kind of developer forces these setting on their players?
I just started playing FFXIV ARR and they have a setting where I can adjust everyone elses spell effects. I can even turn them all completely off! This. Is. Awesome.
Never miss a dodge again.I don’t know why we aren’t getting an official response specifically addressing spell clutter. Would allowing players to reduce it make the game too easy, because dodging was meant to be artificially difficult due to spell clutter blocking boss telegraphs? Can a developer look at the screenshots below and genuinely say they can tell what is going on? For a game that is marketed on dynamic combat and “play the game, not the UI”, it is an utter failure that this issue which players have been complaining about since beta has gone on deaf ears—even Colin’s post in this thread avoided it.
Anet may not want to tell you all this, but this is something hard coded into the game code.
Thats why they are having trouble simply removing the large particle effects.
They have to dig deep into the code, which cost large sum of money to fix these issues when its something that deeply programmed into the code of the game.
Particle generation is a fairly straightforward system in games. Not sure what you are talking about to be honest.
The only “coding” they would have to invest in is a system that automatically scales effects down in large fights. One that works much better than their current solution.
And seeing as how they implemented the LOD checkbox with a fixed value for scaling back particles, I’m sure they could increase that. Or, again, give us the OPTION.
You must not have played World of Warcraft
You can adjust interface in WoW, it’s much more clear. In GW2 I’m just smashing buttons in zerg because there’s nothing you can do.
You must not have played World of Warcraft
You can adjust interface in WoW, it’s much more clear. In GW2 I’m just smashing buttons in zerg because there’s nothing you can do.
WoW’s interface can never be adjusted to the level to could be called clear or even close to it.
You must not have played World of Warcraft
You can adjust interface in WoW, it’s much more clear. In GW2 I’m just smashing buttons in zerg because there’s nothing you can do.
WoW’s interface can never be adjusted to the level to could be called clear or even close to it.
Gonna have to disagree with you there. My old Raid UI provided me with all the information I could want, easily and readily without obstructing my view. Couple that with better camera options (further zoom options) and the fact hat you can pretty much tweak ALL of the UI to be where you want it and have it look how you want means it has far more potential than the GW2 UI. The attached screenshot is mine from before I quit. A quick google search for clean wow ui gives a plethora of sleek and simple UI that users have built from themselves. The power of modding I guess.
Post Feature Build…yup still can’t see. I like most everything else but why in gods name have issues like camera, particle effects, or targeting still not received meaningful changes? And its even worse in pvp. In the ready up they want to talk about barrier to entry…Try walking into a match of still all zerk builds with a camera that swings all over, you can’t target what you want through all the effects and massive groups of pets and clones. Then you die it 5 seconds when you cant even tell whats hitting you or from where. Most new players will do that about 3 times, say “gw2 pvp stinks”, and never come back. Seriously good job with the feature pack but I still feel like when I try to do things in this game the engine and camera is more of an enemy than many enemies. Its no fun dying in a split second when you cant see or even if you can see for a second you hit a skill and it misses even though it should have hit.
(edited by kailin.4905)
these new telegraphs are pretty helpful. Now I can at least tell when somethings coming and where its gonna hit. so I big thank you to anet on finally giving us a real ring and not that crappy thin line on the ground. Even if I can’t help but feel you got the idea from Wildstar’s telegraphs
Its a start, but they really need to get their timing requirements checked.
With the LA knights for instance, you needed to dodge not when the circle appeared but when it vanished (that is, when the knight jumped). If you dodged when you noticed the circle and thought you were in the clear you were in for a nasty surprise.
And this is a issue that has been with the game from day one.
Take a trip to south west Queensdale, and try the blocking training there. Even tho the attacker have a couple of seconds of tell, she will switch target at the very last second. This effectively makes the tell a distraction rather than a aid.
And the same thing happened when daily achievements were introduced, and people tried for the “dodge” one. You actually had to wait for the very moment of the swing to dodge, so that you got the evade popup. If you dodged the moment the tell came you were not counted as actually dodging the attack, and so you could easily think it bugged.
You must not have played World of Warcraft
You can adjust interface in WoW, it’s much more clear. In GW2 I’m just smashing buttons in zerg because there’s nothing you can do.
WoW’s interface can never be adjusted to the level to could be called clear or even close to it.
Gonna have to disagree with you there. My old Raid UI provided me with all the information I could want, easily and readily without obstructing my view. Couple that with better camera options (further zoom options) and the fact hat you can pretty much tweak ALL of the UI to be where you want it and have it look how you want means it has far more potential than the GW2 UI. The attached screenshot is mine from before I quit. A quick google search for clean wow ui gives a plethora of sleek and simple UI that users have built from themselves. The power of modding I guess.
Reminds me of the companion statement to “play the game, not the UI”.
Something about how you could turn of the 3D engine completely in GW1 and still play the game because all the relevant data was in the UI.
Those two in combination make me wonder if PVE is a artist driven project, and we are locked into the zoom and such to show of their handiwork on models, maps and graphics FX.
Honestly tho, you can’t have it both ways. If they want us to look at the world, they need to trim down the number of cooldowns to monitor to the bare metal. But at the same time Jon Peters have stated that having permanent camera look was too “action oriented” for where they wanted to go with the game.
Sorry Arenanet, it can’t be both ways! Either keep the UI and skill count to a minimum so that everything is within easy reach (action game). Or give us a sprawling UI that makes us ignore the world when in combat (RPG).
You must not have played World of Warcraft
You can adjust interface in WoW, it’s much more clear. In GW2 I’m just smashing buttons in zerg because there’s nothing you can do.
WoW’s interface can never be adjusted to the level to could be called clear or even close to it.
Here is a screenshot I took a few months ago. It’s the UI of my hunter that I was raiding with. There’s a pet bar on the right side, above the first row of buttons but it goes invisible when your pet is not out. The two big black boxes are the chat and the performance meter (damage done, healing done, damage taken, etc.) blocked out to prevent names being seen.
Perfectly clean with a clear separation between the UI and the game field while also having space for all abilities and needed macros even though hunters are known for having the biggest button bloat. I only have access to 10 skills at a time in GW2 and yet it doesn’t feel more sleek or less cluttered than my WoW UI.
I wish we could customize the UI in GW2.
Lets not forget the fact that the lack of any decent and permanently visible combat log completely ruins any feedback we receive from the game. So not only can we not see past the clutter, we aren’t told in text what is happening either.
I’m still hoping eventually ANet overhauls the log and moves it to another window, at least maybe then I can see BIG BORING BOSS → BIG ONE HIT ATTACK.
I’m usually really sweet… but this an internet forum and you know how it has to be.
/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/
(edited by Hannelore.8153)
A decent combat log would be nice. Other than that I really don’t see the combat as something that will ever really be fixed. Maybe better but never really good. And its kind of a bummer because they did put thought into a lot of these skills and how x can counter y. Problem is y is hitting you from the side 1200 away while a mesmer has 6 copies of itself flashing in your face (not hating on mesmer just an example). And even if you do happen to see y hitting you and try x to counter it 50% of the time its out of range, blocked by terrain, or just flat out does nothing for who knows what reason. All that forethought and counterplay lost to a ui and engine that reward up close zerker spam. And even that has no feeling of impact. Its more like skating around waving your blade to make numbers come up.
Fix the camera already and tighten up the targeting system. Lower the spell effects. I also personally would love to see all damage nerfed about 1/3 across the board. Slow the fights down. Make any skill that is a “big damage” skill easier to see in pvp and add some strategy to bosses in pve other than 1 shot kills. If something can take half my life in 1 hit I should get at least a decent chance to see it coming. Maybe even work on the collision detection to make attacks feel like they carry some impact and characters have a presence.
(edited by kailin.4905)
Please allow us to move the minimap to the left of the map (so I can have chat and minimap to the left). I am blind on the right and it makes navigating very difficult.
I don’t know how much more I have to ask. T_T The UI was modular in GW1 and that made it one of the most accessible games that I’ve played. All I’m asking for is to move the minimap to the opposite corner.
Meanwhile, blind on my left, love having the chat stuck immobile on my left side. I have to turn my entire head to the left to read it with my good eye. I’d be shocked if anything were done to help out with that sort of thing, we saw how well it went for the colorblind at launch/during beta.
.By performance I’m talking about the work we’re doing to improve server lag when large #‘s of players come together we’ve been updating on lately that has been a major discussion topic lately.
Obviously graphical performance is a type of performance as well, my point is it’s not the part we’re currently as focused on, but are also well aware of and want to improve.
I can be in a map full for Teq before the event starts rolling and have no problem with this absolutely massive swarm of people. But if I don’t drop down to best performance before they start flinging particles, you bet I’m going to crash. Sometimes even then I might anyway. I bought my computer this year. In early March. It’s not the greatest rig in the world, but that doesn’t matter. It wouldn’t be an issue at all if I could just turn particle FX off or at least down.
I can’t see kitten. I just “swing away” and pray I hit a home run.
I usually play an Engineer because I enjoy it the most and its range works best with my visual problems, but some things just call for my zerker warrior. God help me if multiple eles show up to the party, or the flame-on-crit folks.
Even my engineer is a problem sometimes. I use grenade kit underwater, and one of my friends has eyes very sensitive to light, and my ‘good’ eye is as well. The blinding grenade (hah) is absolutely physically painful, she’s asked me to not use it around her. I at least have the benefit of knowing when to look away from my screen when I’m the one using it.
Also, to whoever mentioned it causing an epileptic seizure, the flamethrower does strobe weirdly. I play a kit engie with heavy flamethrower usage on land and it really gives you a headache after a while. Even before reading your post, I’ve considered ceasing use of it because a health issue puts me at heightened risk for a seizure, and I certainly don’t want to send someone else to the hospital or potentially even kill them with my stupid flamethrower. You post is just confirmation that I should probably (definitely) use a different setup, until something is done about it.
April can’t get here sooner.
SURPRISE!
Reminds me of the companion statement to “play the game, not the UI”.
Something about how you could turn of the 3D engine completely in GW1 and still play the game because all the relevant data was in the UI.
Those two in combination make me wonder if PVE is a artist driven project, and we are locked into the zoom and such to show of their handiwork on models, maps and graphics FX.
It’s my job to illustrate (despite the hilarious aforementioned semi-blindness to go with it), so I am in the art field and get to deal with people in there a lot. I sincerely doubt that’s the case, but I do know this game was an intended console title at one point. That went bad or was just left to rot, but the crap camera remained. It used to be worse. People started throwing up from the motion sickness from it, myself included. Had to stop playing for a bit during that. They fixed it, because making your customers vomit is never a good thing, really.
It’s probably actually a reversal. A lot of artists would be kinda sad at their hard work being covered up by an ocean of particle FX. I have to look up most big bosses on the wiki to see what they actually look like. I’ve met map artists and level designers from other games and they don’t seem quite as sensitive about that sort of thing in general, but I could see it annoying the crap out of modelers and texture artists, heh.
Although if I did map work I’d be kinda annoyed at the massive bloom effect caused by Post Processing, holy moly is that a big wad of ugly. Any character of mine wearing celestial dyed armour glows like a lighthouse beacon with that turned on.
All other issues aside with this game aside…does it just seem to be getting more and more screen cluttered?
Yes, I think it is. In map chat even someone joked “lets play: find the Boss”
Greetings.
Shameless bump to the front. The UI visual clutter and insane particle effects are giving me a migraine every time I’m part of a zerg.
(edited by SebastianBN.4685)
can’t the particle effects be changed in graphic settings? putting everything on low? I haven’t checked.
Also, playing a thief, it’s annoying how much I get one-shotted by something I never see, even after getting hit by it.
The issue still hasn’t been resolved.
Personally I notice it more while playing some classes more than others. While on a thief or a necro everything is fairly clear and concise. But, play an ele or a guardian and you’re own attacks blind you.
That isn’t including all the various background effects that can inhibit your view.
AFAIK, this is Anet’s way to deal with the excessive stacking…
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks