Guild Wars 2

Coulter.2315:

Tigaseye.2047:

Coulter.2315:

Tigaseye.2047:

Yes, I also find it offensive that a distasteful concept is being celebrated in a game.

But, I’m not talking about gay marriage, here, I’m talking about all marriage.

Obviously, I’m joking to an extent, but quite honestly, I think the answer to this “problem” would have been to extend civil partnerships to straight people, all along.

That way, only very traditional, religious, couples would go the marriage route and the rest of us would just go the civil partnership route.

That way, we would have all been equal, without all this hassle and upset in the religious community and traditional marriage would have probably been thought of as the outmoded concept it essentially is and would have, gradually, gone the way of the dodo.

That kinda leaves out gay people who are religious though. But I have no issue providing civil partnerships to heterosexuals.

Yeah, that’s true.

But, in a way, why would you want to be a member of a club that doesn’t seem to want you?

Might be better to make your own club, instead.

Maybe there could have been another type of partnership created (for both gay and straight religious couples), with religious references, instead?

I’m pro-gay marriage, for those who want it; I just question whether any of us should really want traditional marriage.

I can’t say I understand it (I’ve thought any god we were told to pray to from the age of 5 must be evil or not there – nothing nice demands you praise it). But there are many who do have belief in religions while being gay and laws have to be equal.

The “we’re becoming too integrated and losing our culture” side of things is always, I suppose, a bother, but worth it for the gains I think. You can even do both I know a married couple who still do all the naughty undergound stuff anyway.

The important thing is we are equal before the law – as a Brit I have a lot invested in the rule of law.

Yeah, true.

I’m British too, BTW.

Khristophoros.7194:

I don’t care how many people agree or disagree with the court’s decision but I do find it annoying when a company takes a position on political issues.

There are a bunch of reasons why and I’d rather not get too deep into it. To keep it simple; just do your job ANet, which is making Guild Wars.

They’re already taken a position with Jory and Kas for years and recently added a transgender NPC.

Khristophoros.7194:

I don’t care how many people agree or disagree with the court’s decision but I do find it annoying when a company takes a position on political issues.

There are a bunch of reasons why and I’d rather not get too deep into it. To keep it simple; just do your job ANet, which is making Guild Wars.

GW2 is an MMO with lore and world events, this is merely world building. And if any human here believes business and politics aren’t linked they need to think or watch more news.

Kako.1930:

Ashen.2907:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Ashen.2907:

Faereilos.5106:

There are more npc hetero relationships in this game than there are homosexual.

Honest question here:

How many main (starring role) NPCs are engaged in hetero relationships compared to same sex relationships ?

Well, currently none, since the only relationship among the main characters that is detailed at all is Kasmeer and Marjory.

I would consider Faolain a major NPC (starring role), albeit a villain. So four characters engaged in same sex relationships while none engaged in opposite sex relationships.

I don’t have a problem with this (or wouldn’t if Marjory/Kasmeer’s were better written), am glad to see diversity, but it does stand in contrast to the claim I was responding to.

I don’t follow the whole story that much, but from what I remember there were several heterosexual relationships in the game so far:

Logan and Queen Jenna. (human)

Kazz and Doxa (asura).

Eir and Borje. (norn)

Snarl and Galina. (charr)

(Hinted) Rox and Braham. (charr + norn)

Zott and Elli. (asura)

Canach and Anise. (sylvari and human)

and there are probably more, too. It’s not like Anet only endorses same-sex relationships (or even hinted at it).

Well, I said detailed relationships. Not hints and ones that you have never seen them even kiss once.

Khristophoros.7194:

I don’t care how many people agree or disagree with the court’s decision but I do find it annoying when a company takes a position on political issues.

There are a bunch of reasons why and I’d rather not get too deep into it. To keep it simple; just do your job ANet, which is making Guild Wars.

Companies take positions on political issues even without making public statements. I am glad that a company with an opinion on a social issue comes right out and says so rather than just buying politicians to support their agenda.

LameFox.6349:

Raven.3957:

Let me remind you that all sylvari are basicly lesbian/gay/insectual lovers?

The insects are consenting adults of their respective species I hope?

I will admit I laughed way harder than i should have at this.

Behellagh.1468:

It’s not politics it’s simply establishing equal rights across state lines, just like interracial marriage ruling the court made nearly 50 years ago in Loving v. Virginia. It’s a 14th Amendment issue.

The ruling only affects the secular legal definition in terms of essentially contract law and not any religious connotation associated with it.

You can still be as personally biased against same sex marriage, it’s just saying that state governments can’t be.

Exactly, SCOTUS just upheld what the United States Constitution already says and telling the states they can’t deny same sex marriage.

+1 for the Founding Fathers & United States Constitution September 17, 1787

And I hardly consider one tweet being overly political. Now if everyone got free rainbow finishers for a day and it was the default and you couldn’t change it, then it might be going too far. Otherwise, dead whoop.

I think the OP may be a bit out of touch. Same sex marriage is now legal in England, New Zealand and several other countries around the world and recently Ireland…IRELAND that is…voted by popular vote to bring in same sex marriage and that’s a place you wouldn’t expect this to happen.

There’s a really loud, very vocal group of people who yell and scream and stamp their feet every single time social progress is made.

The rest of us accept that people can have and express a view. The OP has expressed his view that he’s against it, but I’m pretty sure most people who work in the game industry aren’t.

Possibly because artists and creative people in general tend to be forward thinkers.

For the record, I am absolutely pro gay marriage. Love who you want to love!

That being said, the only people that sound hateful are all of you chewing this guy out for having an opinion that differs from yours. What about his right to voice his opinion? You’re all being hypocritical. Your stance is, “equal rights for everyone unless they disagree with us.”

Also, to respond to the initial poster… no. All forums degrade to politics eventually. We all need to deal with it or avoid the interwebs. :-P

Magicus.4302:

I’m referring to this: https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/614560129573351424

Please remember that a very large portion of your player base doesn’t agree with the court’s decision today.

please remember that you support the suppression of one’s identity in order to get married

Phyxius Animus.7356:

For the record, I am absolutely pro gay marriage. Love who you want to love!

That being said, the only people that sound hateful are all of you chewing this guy out for having an opinion that differs from yours. What about his right to voice his opinion? You’re all being hypocritical. Your stance is, “equal rights for everyone unless they disagree with us.”

Also, to respond to the initial poster… no. All forums degrade to politics eventually. We all need to deal with it or avoid the interwebs. :-P

He has a right to voice his opinion. He has no right to tell Anet not to voice theirs. Whether you’re pro or not, any human who’s won a victory like this knows what it’s like to express their support. Obviously Anet supports this on the whole, or they wouldn’t have gay characters in the game.

Anet didn’t make 80 tweets, over days, they made one tweet, to express support of an idea that probably most of them believe in.

The OP felt he has the right to tell them not to do that. And maybe he does. But we also have the right to respond to that insistence. I think it’s misplaced.

Human beings (or is it just gamers?) have a tendency to believe in equal rights so long that all views coincide with their own.

Phyxius Animus.7356:

For the record, I am absolutely pro gay marriage. Love who you want to love!

That being said, the only people that sound hateful are all of you chewing this guy out for having an opinion that differs from yours. What about his right to voice his opinion? You’re all being hypocritical. Your stance is, “equal rights for everyone unless they disagree with us.”

Also, to respond to the initial poster… no. All forums degrade to politics eventually. We all need to deal with it or avoid the interwebs. :-P

Not really. The OP was essentially asking for the community team to shut up about their views because he disagrees with them, and everyone else was saying there’s nothing wrong with them making a post like this.

No one’s saying he can’t voice his opinion, just that he can’t tell others that they can’t voice theirs. You’re a little confused. :P

Phyxius Animus.7356:

For the record, I am absolutely pro gay marriage. Love who you want to love!

That being said, the only people that sound hateful are all of you chewing this guy out for having an opinion that differs from yours. What about his right to voice his opinion? You’re all being hypocritical. Your stance is, “equal rights for everyone unless they disagree with us.”

Also, to respond to the initial poster… no. All forums degrade to politics eventually. We all need to deal with it or avoid the interwebs. :-P

None of these comments are taking away any of the OP’s rights, and the freedom to state your opinion (not that it really applies here anyway) does not mean you are guaranteed it will be accepted as valid when you do.

While reading this thread, please stop to enjoy this screenshot of a female tourist without any clothes on flirting with my female character instead of giving me the speed boost she is advertising above her head.

OP, was it really necessary to give the SJWs such an easy mark?
A useless thread and so obviously doomed that it must be a troll.

Reporting.

narwhalsbend.7059:

While reading this thread, please stop to enjoy this screenshot of a female tourist without any clothes on flirting with my female character instead of giving me the speed boost she is advertising above her head.

Urgh this is what happens when you support the gay agenda. No more speed boosts! I’m uninstalling right now.

Azel.4786:

snip

Same sex union is a civil union with ramifications from a civil standpoint, whilst marriage is a holy union with religious aspect. Marriage is an union that has no civil consequences in many countries – except those who do not have a segregation between state and church – but it is a union with deep religious meaning. And this union I am against being forced to accept same sex unions as, when it happens (and is happening at a growing pace), I feel that it is religion – and those who believe in it – are being unjustly persecuted and are being forced to change their views because others to not accept them.

snip

I’m not going to reply to everything you said, but this paragraph is hilarious. You are not being unjustly persecuted. I bet you haven’t even experienced what true persecution is like. Christianity is still as you remember it. Nobody is forcing you to renounce your faith or marry the same sex; marriage can still be between a man and a woman.

You can’t say that you truly care about your gay friends if you actively deny gay couples the right to be happy together. “Separate but equal” is not really equal at all.

Behellagh.1468:

Khristophoros.7194:

I don’t care how many people agree or disagree with the court’s decision but I do find it annoying when a company takes a position on political issues.

There are a bunch of reasons why and I’d rather not get too deep into it. To keep it simple; just do your job ANet, which is making Guild Wars.

They’re already taken a position with Jory and Kas for years and recently added a transgender NPC.

These things shouldn’t be in the game for the purpose of taking a position. They should be there for the purpose of making characters deeper and more interesting.

Khristophoros.7194:

Behellagh.1468:

Khristophoros.7194:

I don’t care how many people agree or disagree with the court’s decision but I do find it annoying when a company takes a position on political issues.

There are a bunch of reasons why and I’d rather not get too deep into it. To keep it simple; just do your job ANet, which is making Guild Wars.

They’re already taken a position with Jory and Kas for years and recently added a transgender NPC.

These things shouldn’t be in the game for the purpose of taking a position. They should be there for the purpose of making characters deeper and more interesting.

Anet never said they were in game for taking a position, even if someone on the forums said. Of course, art of any kind was always meant to challenge preconceptions and stereotypes and that’s as valid a reason for including something in a game as anything else.

What are we doing now? Talking about it. That’s publicity. That’s another reason to put something in a game.

But I don’t see the stuff Anet has put in the game as being there just to take a position. As a writer, I know that characters sometimes just show up, and when they do I welcome them in, unless there’s a compelling reason not to use them.

narwhalsbend.7059:

While reading this thread, please stop to enjoy this screenshot of a female tourist without any clothes on flirting with my female character instead of giving me the speed boost she is advertising above her head.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

This post is a joke. Except me not getting the speed boost… Lazy tourists.

I can see the buff right there in your screenshot. What is this deception?!

Azel.4786:

I always prefer to refrain from commenting on topics like these, but honestly you are being discourteous to him. He expressly mentions that he still cares for people whose life choices he disagrees with, yet you come and force him to accept that, condemning him in veiled words for his decision and belief.

I have gay friends that I frequently talk to and I care about them. I work in a company in which there are a substantial number of people from the LGBT community and I am close friends with many. I am very open to them and so are they with me and we get along just fine both on a professional and a personal level.

I accept of who they are and I am glad they are able to accept and feel happy about who they are – I would hate that they did not feel comfortable about who they are and were persecuted by people for being who they are. I actively support their inclusion in our society.

However I am also very open to them about being a religious person and that I believe in God and I have learned of his teachings and one of them is that the marriage is a sacred union of a man and a woman. And I am open about the fact that I do not believe it right for same sex marriage, but before you bring your hate to me, I am a supporter of same sex union. And there is a BIG difference.

Same sex union is a civil union with ramifications from a civil standpoint, whilst marriage is a holy union with religious aspect. Marriage is an union that has no civil consequences in many countries – except those who do not have a segregation between state and church – but it is a union with deep religious meaning. And this union I am against being forced to accept same sex unions as, when it happens (and is happening at a growing pace), I feel that it is religion – and those who believe in it – are being unjustly persecuted and are being forced to change their views because others to not accept them.

People – from both sides – need to just understand that people can be religious and be kind to their brothers and sisters and that people can have different beliefs and still be kind to each other, we should just respect each others beliefs and choices, as long as they do not bring harm to ourselves or to others.

And I believe that we can perfectly live together with you accepting peoples religious choices and beliefs and these very same religious people accepting those of the LGBT community and giving them a fair, kind and respectful treatment, both respecting each others boundaries and treating each other with respct.

To sum the above, on the topic of ANET posting that picture, I defer to my comment on civil and religious aspects. As long as ANET does this in a manner that does not offend my religious beliefs – and ANET has not done this in an offensive manner – I have no qualms about ANET including transgender NPCs, same sex unions/couples, etc. and they are free to express their views.

I only ask that ANET respects this boundary and does not start to be offensive to the belief of the portion of its fan base that is religious and would like to have their beliefs treated with the respect – which, thus far, ANET has done.

Honestly, I have some understanding for your point of view in that, yes, marriage is/was supposed to be a religious union between a man and a woman (mainly for reasons of procreation).

Not only that, but it is an inherently sexist institution and I’m not saying that as some kind of extremist feminist…

I’m referring to the fact that, not so long ago at all, women were expected to promise to “obey” their husband, in the marriage vows.

Also, non-consensual union within marriage wasn’t illegal, as it wasn’t even recognised as being possible.

A married woman had, in theory, to consent at any time her husband wished.

Now, really, why would anyone – gay or not – want to enter into this kind of institution, with all its negative associations?

Unless, of course, their (very traditional) religious belief is more important to them than anything else.

Faereilos.5106:

I’m not going to reply to everything you said, but this paragraph is hilarious. You are not being unjustly persecuted. I bet you haven’t even experienced what true persecution is like. Christianity is still as you remember it. Nobody is forcing you to renounce your faith or marry the same sex; marriage can still be between a man and a woman.

You can’t say that you truly care about your gay friends if you actively deny gay couples the right to be happy together. “Separate but equal” is not really equal at all.

Okay, where did I say that I am denying gay couples to be happy together? Did I not expressly say I support their civil union?

If you say it is hilarious that a person asks to be accepted for his/her choice, when the person expressly acts in a way that his/her choice will not deny you of any of your civil liberties nor will it offend you or disrespect you or harm you, are you not shunning that person away for his/her choice? Are you not offending that person? Are you not shaming him/her for being who they are? What is that called?

Here I will help you to elucidate the example, if the person says that he/she is a gay, the person expressly respects your personal choices, the person acts in a way that treats you equally from a civil standpoint, the person does not offend you nor harm you, and you shun that person away for his/her choice. Are you not persecuting that person?

I generally don’t like politics in my leisure activities either, but this thread made me giggle.

I think it’s kind of nice knowing that something I’ve dumped loads of money into feels excited about today’s decision. Makes me more inclined to spend more money, TBH. Even if it is dirty marriage-equality money

LameFox.6349:

I can see the buff right there in your screenshot. What is this deception?!

I saw it myself just after posting. Oh well, I was just trying to bring some levity to the thread anyway.

Kako.1930:

Phyxius Animus.7356:

For the record, I am absolutely pro gay marriage. Love who you want to love!

That being said, the only people that sound hateful are all of you chewing this guy out for having an opinion that differs from yours. What about his right to voice his opinion? You’re all being hypocritical. Your stance is, “equal rights for everyone unless they disagree with us.”

Also, to respond to the initial poster… no. All forums degrade to politics eventually. We all need to deal with it or avoid the interwebs. :-P

Not really. The OP was essentially asking for the community team to shut up about their views because he disagrees with them, and everyone else was saying there’s nothing wrong with them making a post like this.

No one’s saying he can’t voice his opinion, just that he can’t tell others that they can’t voice theirs. You’re a little confused. :P

Fair enough.
I just actually see his point. I disagree with it, but understand it. There’s a reason work environments disallow political conversation so often. I think he’d just like to see a family game do the same.

It’ll never happen. But I get it.

I do stand by my statement though. Many of the replies come across more hateful than he does.

Two things:

1. It’s about benefits, not love.

2. There has always been this agenda in GW2 from inception. It has just been brought out in different ways (mostly the living world).

So despite being slightly inaccurate, the tweet is par for the course.

Tigaseye.2047:

Honestly, I have some understanding for your point of view in that, yes, marriage is/was supposed to be a religious union between a man and a woman (mainly for reasons of procreation).

Not only that, but it is an inherently sexist institution and I’m not saying that as some kind of extremist feminist…

I’m referring to the fact that, not so long ago at all, women were expected to promise to “obey” their husband, in the marriage vows.

Also, kitten within marriage wasn’t illegal, as it wasn’t even recognised as being possible.

Now, really, why would anyone – gay or not – want to enter into this kind of institution, with all its negative associations?

Unless, of course, their (very traditional) religious belief is more important to them than anything else.

The largest problem is that people often blur the line between religion and civil aspects – people use religion to try to justify things on the civil side that have no support in religion whatsoever.

I do not speak for all religions, each as their own aspects and I do not know them all, but in the religion I follow men and women are to be treated equally in the marriage.

In fact, we accept divorce in very few cases, but one is expressly those where the man or the woman disrespects/mistreats the other (and no, denying is not disrespecting/mistreating, but forcing is).

But I digress, you have full choice in wanting to be part of a religion, wanting a religious union (whichever religion you choose) and/or a civil union. I only ask that people respect other beliefs.

It never surprises me how big the wave of hatred and discrimination from “open-minded” people is.

Just FYI, there are far more people who don’t approve of this than what you see on the forums. The issue is that whenever they speak up, they are heavily censored by the moderating staff. We can’t have an open discussion about these topics because Anet has taken the rather close minded view that anyone who disagrees with them is evil.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Magicus.4302:

Please remember that a very minor portion of your player base doesn’t agree with the court’s decision today.

FTFY

Also you’re in breach of the code of conduct.
Do not post:
which promotes hatred of any kind, including that based on nation, race, religion, age, sex, gender orientation, or culture.

There’s nothing about the original comment that inherently promotes hatred of any kind. While I fully support the court’s decision (as well as the post the community team made about it), I also support the rights of others to dissent. The original poster made two statements:

1. I don’t think the community team should engage in politics.
2. I (and many others) didn’t agree with the court’s decision.

On their face without knowing any other facts, both of these are potentially reasonable stances.

A person could fully support the right to same-sex marriage but still disagree with the court’s decision on the basis of belief that this is still a matter for states and not the federal government, and be concerned about judicial overreach by SCOTUS. I don’t have the same concerns, but I understand that view.

I think in any discussion involving topics of a sensitive nature like this, it behooves all of us to try to be as respectful as possible, try not to jump to conclusions about the beliefs of others, and to avoid escalating the discussion and rhetoric as much as we can.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Magicus.4302:

Please remember that a very minor portion of your player base doesn’t agree with the court’s decision today.

FTFY

Also you’re in breach of the code of conduct.
Do not post:
which promotes hatred of any kind, including that based on nation, race, religion, age, sex, gender orientation, or culture.

This type of response is not good. It’s what gives the LGBT crowd a bad name. The OP said something that others strongly disagreed with. However, inaccurate as it may be, it was not directly rude. His post was against having content in the game based on his belief that a large portion of those who play disagree with it. Other than one thinking of what may have led to this conclusion, no breach of the code of conduct has been made.

I support any actions Anet or any company does to support equality.

It’s unfortunate that this should even be an issue. Just treat others as you would like to be treated and accept that every person is an individual with equal rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Azel.4786:

Faereilos.5106:

I’m not going to reply to everything you said, but this paragraph is hilarious. You are not being unjustly persecuted. I bet you haven’t even experienced what true persecution is like. Christianity is still as you remember it. Nobody is forcing you to renounce your faith or marry the same sex; marriage can still be between a man and a woman.

You can’t say that you truly care about your gay friends if you actively deny gay couples the right to be happy together. “Separate but equal” is not really equal at all.

Okay, where did I say that I am denying gay couples to be happy together? Did I not expressly say I support their civil union?

If you say it is hilarious that a person asks to be accepted for his/her choice, when the person expressly acts in a way that his/her choice will not deny you of any of your civil liberties nor will it offend you or disrespect you or harm you, are you not shunning that person away for his/her choice? Are you not offending that person? Are you not shaming him/her for being who they are? What is that called?

Here I will help you to elucidate the example, if the person says that he/she is a gay, the person expressly respects your personal choices, the person acts in a way that treats you equally from a civil standpoint, the person does not offend you nor harm you, and you shun that person away for his/her choice. Are you not persecuting that person?

But what if they don’t want a civil union? A civil union doesn’t include all the rights that a normal marriage does. I think it’s kind of selfish to tell someone they can’t have a marriage because it’s against your beliefs. Two gay guys wanting to get married literally has no effects on you. None.

Trust me, you are far from being persecuted. ANet is allowing you to post on this forums, to play their game, and by golly as a Christian you have more power than those who you claim to be oppressing you. Does it not occur to you that LGBTQ+ people have been persecuted by almost everyone since…forever? In some countries, you get imprisoned or stoned to death just for loving the opposite sex. That’s persecution. Having people disagree with your beliefs and feeling offended is not.

You believe what you want, I’m just pointing out your religion doesn’t get to dictate the government or how people want to live their lives.

Azel.4786:

Tigaseye.2047:

Honestly, I have some understanding for your point of view in that, yes, marriage is/was supposed to be a religious union between a man and a woman (mainly for reasons of procreation).

Not only that, but it is an inherently sexist institution and I’m not saying that as some kind of extremist feminist…

I’m referring to the fact that, not so long ago at all, women were expected to promise to “obey” their husband, in the marriage vows.

Also, kitten within marriage wasn’t illegal, as it wasn’t even recognised as being possible.

Now, really, why would anyone – gay or not – want to enter into this kind of institution, with all its negative associations?

Unless, of course, their (very traditional) religious belief is more important to them than anything else.

The largest problem is that people often blur the line between religion and civil aspects – people use religion to try to justify things on the civil side that have no support in religion whatsoever.

I do not speak for all religions, each as their own aspects and I do not know them all, but in the religion I follow men and women are to be treated equally in the marriage.

In fact, we accept divorce in very few cases, but one is expressly those where the man or the woman disrespects/mistreats the other (and no, denying is not disrespecting/mistreating, but forcing is).

But I digress, you have full choice in wanting to be part of a religion, wanting a religious union (whichever religion you choose) and/or a civil union. I only ask that people respect other beliefs.

Well, I’m basically referring to what marriage entailed, historically, in the UK (and probably, also, the US, as we tend to have fairly similar laws).

When I say “historically”, I mean probably less than 50 years ago for the examples I gave – not hundreds, or thousands, of years ago.

As it is the UK, it will have been based on Christianity.

Probably Catholicism originally and then the Church of England, for the last few hundred years.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

It never surprises me how big the wave of hatred and discrimination from “open-minded” people is.

Just FYI, there are far more people who don’t approve of this than what you see on the forums. The issue is that whenever they speak up, they are heavily censored by the moderating staff. We can’t have an open discussion about these topics because Anet has taken the rather close minded view that anyone who disagrees with them is evil.

You’re right. There are far more people who don’t approve than we see on the forums. That’s because gamers tend to be smarter and more forward thinking in general. And it’s not what people say but how they say it, often, that gets them moderated.

You may think your point of view is perfectly natural, because it’s perfectly natural to you. You might think that how you express it is perfectly okay, because to you that’s a normal natural point of view. You might believe your point of view as you express it isn’t hurtful.

But you might be wrong about that too.-

Faereilos.5106:

But what if they don’t want a civil union? A civil union doesn’t include all the rights that a normal marriage does. I think it’s kind of selfish to tell someone they can’t have a marriage because it’s against your beliefs. Two gay guys wanting to get married literally has no effects on you. None.

Trust me, you are far from being persecuted. ANet is allowing you to post on this forums, to play their game, and by golly as a Christian you have more power than those who you claim to be oppressing you. Does it not occur to you that LGBTQ+ people have been persecuted by almost everyone since…forever? In some countries, you get imprisoned or stoned to death just for loving the opposite sex. That’s persecution. Having people disagree with your beliefs and feeling offended is not.

You believe what you want, I’m just pointing out your religion doesn’t get to dictate the government or how people want to live their lives.

Okay, let me clarify this before we go too deep here. This may be a language/ country problem.

When I say civil union I mean the exact same thing a straight couple does if they are no religious and go to church to get a religious marriage.

I only ask that you do not force churches to make same sex union if the religion does not allow it. On the civil side, full equal treatment – meaning full equal rights of the union, whatever the most complete type of civil union civil “marriage” you get in your country.

Hope this clears the discussion, because I think we might be supporting the same thing, but the language barrier is keeping the message from getting across.

I see nothing wrong with them being inclusive to all players.

Tigaseye.2047:

I’m referring to the fact that, not so long ago at all, women were expected to promise to “obey” their husband, in the marriage vows.

A married woman had, in theory, to consent at any time her husband wished.

Isn’t it interesting that such an archaic system still exists even in the 21st century?

Celtic Lady.3729:

Tigaseye.2047:

I’m referring to the fact that, not so long ago at all, women were expected to promise to “obey” their husband, in the marriage vows.

A married woman had, in theory, to consent at any time her husband wished.

Isn’t it interesting that such an archaic system still exists even in the 21st century?

Yes, quite.

I mean, they have obviously changed the law since then, but you’d think the fact that it was ever like that (especially until so, relatively, recently) would put people off.

Maybe most people just don’t know?

Or are so caught up in the romance of it, they ignore it.

Azel.4786:

Faereilos.5106:

But what if they don’t want a civil union? A civil union doesn’t include all the rights that a normal marriage does. I think it’s kind of selfish to tell someone they can’t have a marriage because it’s against your beliefs. Two gay guys wanting to get married literally has no effects on you. None.

Trust me, you are far from being persecuted. ANet is allowing you to post on this forums, to play their game, and by golly as a Christian you have more power than those who you claim to be oppressing you. Does it not occur to you that LGBTQ+ people have been persecuted by almost everyone since…forever? In some countries, you get imprisoned or stoned to death just for loving the opposite sex. That’s persecution. Having people disagree with your beliefs and feeling offended is not.

You believe what you want, I’m just pointing out your religion doesn’t get to dictate the government or how people want to live their lives.

Okay, let me clarify this before we go too deep here. This may be a language/ country problem.

When I say civil union I mean the exact same thing a straight couple does if they are no religious and go to church to get a religious marriage.

I only ask that you do not force churches to make same sex union if the religion does not allow it. On the civil side, full equal treatment.

Hope this clears the discussion, because I think we might be supporting the same thing, but the language barrier is keeping the message from getting across.

I don’t think churches will be forced to host same sex marriages, just that it’s not ok for the states to completely ban said marriages. Maybe I’m oversimplifying the ruling… Anyways, I see what you’re getting at, but I can’t agree 100%. There are gays who are Christians, too. They should get the same thing as you. Like I said, “separate but equal” is not really equal. So your version of a civil union functions exactly like a normal marriage, that’s cool. But by calling it something else, you’re basically saying gays are different, that they don’t deserve what you have. Drink from the fountain labeled “gays”, it’s the same as the one labeled “straights”, I promise!

…I should shut up now and let this thread get buried.

Tigaseye.2047:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Tigaseye.2047:

…

Isn’t it interesting that such an archaic system still exists even in the 21st century?

Yes, quite.

I mean, they have obviously changed the law since then, but you’d think the fact that it was ever like that (especially until so, relatively, recently) would put people off.

Maybe most people just don’t know?

Or are so caught up in the romance of it, they ignore it.

I suppose that’s how anarchists think? I mean, governments have been around for quite a while, and a good many of the early ones were pretty lousy. (Admittedly “lousiness” is hardly exclusive to the early forms of government.)

Other than that, reading this just keeps me thinking of the phrase, “and I thought chivalry was dead.”

If anyone is quitting this game because of the acknowledgement that LGBTQA folk exist and are humans too, that’s fine. There are many many other games that they can play and feel comfy in but I’d suggest they start going retro gamer – as society changes and moves more towards acceptance, these little pockets are going to dry up. It’s not a matter of being ‘politically correct’, it’s a matter of inclusion.

Magicus.4302:

I’m referring to this: https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/614560129573351424

Please remember that a very large portion of your player base doesn’t agree with the court’s decision today.

If one of their staff expressed disapproval on the court’s ruling today, and people (your current opposition?) were asking the staff to keep out of politics would you be so keen to keep your position?

Arioso.8519:

There are several prominent gay couples in the game’s story and an ENTIRE race that seems to be bisexual by default. Though Sylvari have no sexual organs, so the “sexual” part of that is kind of a misnomer. Their genders are purely aesthetic.

Just going to say… that’s false.

Sylvari have sexual organs, they simply are unable to have kids.

edit: In regard to that twitter post and the one long reply chain about the guy quitting because it’s too much. The stuff in the picture would only happen if PLAYERS did it as of right now.

It’s no different from two gay guys having a loving kiss randomly in public.

Tigaseye.2047:

Or are so caught up in the romance of it, they ignore it.

The divorce rates would suggest this. Obvious fantasy is obvious.

Magicus.4302:

I’m referring to this: https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/614560129573351424

Please remember that a very large portion of your player base doesn’t agree with the court’s decision today.

“very large” ? how much is it? you mean you and Mr “gamer” Ted Cruz? Anet can expressive their opinion. If you disagree with, turn off the browser. No one asks anyone to insist on sitting on fire and complain why it is hot.

Asudementio.8526:

Magicus.4302:

I’m referring to this: https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/614560129573351424

Please remember that a very large portion of your player base doesn’t agree with the court’s decision today.

If one of their staff expressed disapproval on the court’s ruling today, and people (your current opposition?) were asking the staff to keep out of politics would you be so keen to keep your position?

Sorry, I am on the side that says there’s no problem with ANet putting that up, but please think about that question. Pretty darn sure there’d be numerous angry threads if your scenario actually happened. Of course, the outrage wouldn’t be a request that ANet stay out of politics. It would be outrage at ANet being “bigots.”

Kalavier.1097
Sylvari have sexual organs, they simply are unable to have kids.

Can it be considered a sexual organ if it’s just a branch sticking out of the crotch area? (For males obviously… Females. Different plumbing. Wth am I talking about this?)

Kury.8210:

Asudementio.8526:

Magicus.4302:

I’m referring to this: https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/614560129573351424

Please remember that a very large portion of your player base doesn’t agree with the court’s decision today.

If one of their staff expressed disapproval on the court’s ruling today, and people (your current opposition?) were asking the staff to keep out of politics would you be so keen to keep your position?

Sorry, I am on the side that says there’s no problem with ANet putting that up, but please think about that question. Pretty darn sure there’d be numerous angry threads if your scenario actually happened. Of course, the outrage wouldn’t be a request that ANet stay out of politics. It would be outrage at ANet being “bigots.”

Well yes, i understand that’d likely be the case- but let’s return to my scenario.

If OP was on the opposite of this would they still be supportive of having anet refrain from politics? chances are they wouldn’t be. And that’s the point. This is being discussed because someone is contentious with the issue at hand and is trying to grasp at whatever little comfort they can get to support their dissent.

Faereilos.5106:

I don’t think churches will be forced to host same sex marriages, just that it’s not ok for the states to completely ban said marriages. Maybe I’m oversimplifying the ruling… Anyways, I see what you’re getting at, but I can’t agree 100%. There are gays who are Christians, too. They should get the same thing as you. Like I said, “separate but equal” is not really equal. So your version of a civil union functions exactly like a normal marriage, that’s cool. But by calling it something else, you’re basically saying gays are different, that they don’t deserve what you have. Drink from the fountain labeled “gays”, it’s the same as the one labeled “straights”, I promise!

…I should shut up now and let this thread get buried.

It is quite alright that you don’t agree with it. This does not diminish your point nor your views from my perspective. The good thing is that at the end of the day we both can talk about our views and accept we are different and work together – the reason I also am perfectly fine with ANET manifesting its political views in a respectful manner -. Hey, who knows, maybe next time we might be best teammates in a group .

And I get what you want, and I understand your point of view as well. And the reason I make the name distinction is because it is so in my country – the reason we ruled this way here is particularly so that religion can be kept free of the state influence (but not “exempt” from the law so what is a crime is still a crime, like stoning people) and the state free of religion’s influence and its dogmas.

So yeah, I am all pro equality in our civil society, we should always accept and treat each other well, fairly, with dignity and respect – whoever they are and in whatever they believe in. But in religion things are a bit different and more complex – but this is not a subject we should dwell in in a game forum.

The Dominoes Fall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrwTDfkitten7I