Guild Wars 2

That’s good martyr complex.

Vayne.8563:

In fact, most of the stuff in this patch was asked for along the way. I’m not really sure why you’d think otherwise.

Internetspeak to English translation:

“We don’t want it.” = “I don’t want it.”

The only opinions that matter are the ones that agree with the poster. Dissenting opinions do not actually exist, they are either trolling or mistaken.

Bolthar.7192:

As a side note, to any that may feel that posts like this seem entitled, it’s not about “Anet, gimme gimme gimme” it’s about passionate players of a game they love voicing their concerns about something they care about and feeling ignored. There’s my 2 cents.

Thank you for understanding

tolunart.2095:

Vayne.8563:

In fact, most of the stuff in this patch was asked for along the way. I’m not really sure why you’d think otherwise.

Internetspeak to English translation:

“We don’t want it.” = “I don’t want it.”

The only opinions that matter are the ones that agree with the poster. Dissenting opinions do not actually exist, they are either trolling or mistaken.

Not at all, and as I mentioned several times already, I’m not talking in everyone’s name.
I’m just thinking a bit logically since end game will also be something new players will be looking for and things like more guild functions were asked for since release already (and were always a strong question during the interviews in which the community came up with the questions – clearly it’s what the community is asking for)

You ask ‘“Can we be honest for a second?” But I know you don’t want that since I disagree with you.

I personally do get where ArenaNet is coming from with the new updates (even though I’m not 100% behind all of them). However, I also understand some of the OPs concerns that perhaps some of the energy could be focused elsewhere as well. While making things friendlier for new players is far from being a wrong thing and the intentions are, I’m sure, the best; it does not feel (for me at least; clearly, opinions will differ on that part!) like the appropriate priority atm, that’s all.

I dont understand how someone can say they give up on CDI but still want to make change. OP says commander CDI was a fail but most people who helped Dry Top CDI loved how much their input was used. Can we be honest for a second?

And I don’t mean to be rude but it seems like the only person that can be honest here is you and the group of people that you represent that are “afraid” to speak up. ( They don’t stop speaking and making arguments based on what only they want or give value )

Zoso.8279:

I dont understand how someone can say they give up on CDI but still want to make change.

It’s more like a cry for help I guess- same as it happened with the commander tag prices and colors a week ago.

Zoso.8279:

OP says commander CDI was a fail but most people who helped Dry Top CDI loved how much their input was used. Can we be honest for a second?

I can only say what I heard about the commander system CDI. There were many good ideas to make the system better and more interesting, but the only thing that we got out of that whole CDI were colorful commander tags.

Zoso.8279:

And I don’t mean to be rude but it seems like the only person that can be honest here is you and the group of people that you represent that are “afraid” to speak up. ( They don’t stop speaking and making arguments based on what only they want or give value )

Based on the replies that I got on the forum I can see why people are afraid and skeptical to even engage in an argument about this kind of things.

The topic was supposed to bring up an actual issue, which many players are aware of, but the white knights turned it in another one of their agendas. At this rate, you’ll have to start defending ANET from yourself since by protecting it so much, you don’t allow others to voice their opinion but rather start insulting and patronizing them.

Maybe you should read in detail what you type. I agree on constructive criticism but not pointless grieving.

Zoso.8279:

Maybe you should read in detail what you type.

care to elaborate?

- There were many good ideas to make the system better and more interesting, but the only thing that we got out of that whole CDI were colorful commander tags ( what you value )
- You talk about end game content ( Living story/Dry Top/Southsun Cove all end game content again what you give value )
- Based on the replies that I got on the forum I can see why people are afraid ( Look around the forums more topics about hate this/more content/give give give and attacking developers for not doing anything in two years (insults) )

Just to give a few points but there are more. I’ll let the other forum users make their own opinions.

I won’t deny that your intentions are good but how your doing it needs work.

I don’t know any of the particulars of Anet’s dev budget, their actual priorities (as they are discussed internally within the organization, not in blog posts and patch notes that are for the public consumption).

What I do know is that a lot of the feature pack’s features are ports from China. That tells me that it’s cheap, low-hanging fruit. There’s nothing wrong with that…but I have a feeling this feature pack cropped up as a way to spin these feature ports they had planned all along as something more than it is.

I doubt Anet actively doesn’t want to build new WvW features, new sPvP maps, and whatever else people are bellyaching for, but the fact is that that would cost them far more money to build these things than it was for them to port a bunch of stuff over from the China game. Most likely, they probably don’t have the budget and instead are focusing on smaller modular items one at a time that a small dev team can eke out.

pseudonatural.3549:

I don’t know any of the particulars of Anet’s dev budget, their actual priorities (as they are discussed internally within the organization, not in blog posts and patch notes that are for the public consumption).

What I do know is that a lot of the feature pack’s features are ports from China. That tells me that it’s cheap, low-hanging fruit. There’s nothing wrong with that…but I have a feeling this feature pack cropped up as a way to spin these feature ports they had planned all along as something more than it is.

I doubt Anet actively doesn’t want to build new WvW features, new sPvP maps, and whatever else people are bellyaching for, but the fact is that that would cost them far more money to build these things than it was for them to port a bunch of stuff over from the China game. Most likely, they probably don’t have the budget and instead are focusing on smaller modular items one at a time that a small dev team can eke out.

They wrote the China game, it did not just appear.

Yargesh.4965:

pseudonatural.3549:

I don’t know any of the particulars of Anet’s dev budget, their actual priorities (as they are discussed internally within the organization, not in blog posts and patch notes that are for the public consumption).

What I do know is that a lot of the feature pack’s features are ports from China. That tells me that it’s cheap, low-hanging fruit. There’s nothing wrong with that…but I have a feeling this feature pack cropped up as a way to spin these feature ports they had planned all along as something more than it is.

I doubt Anet actively doesn’t want to build new WvW features, new sPvP maps, and whatever else people are bellyaching for, but the fact is that that would cost them far more money to build these things than it was for them to port a bunch of stuff over from the China game. Most likely, they probably don’t have the budget and instead are focusing on smaller modular items one at a time that a small dev team can eke out.

They wrote the China game, it did not just appear.

I think they are just trying to catch us up with the china game and once everyone is in the same page its full steam again.

-No, There were actual good system to make the whole commander SYSTEM not just TAGS better. From all the CDI we got a few colorful tags.

-I wasn’t talking about end game content directly. I was talking about content that would make players more interested (and invested) in gw2. And since GW2’s end game starts basically before you reach level 80, I was practicaly talking about features that could be used by everyone (once again, WvW, sPvP, guild features) while if we take in consideration other type of content, then certainly SAB, dungeons and fractals would come on my mind first.
-And all of those topics probably also received the whiteknight treatment. And that’s why I said I see why others just gave up on the forum. TBH, The best thing to do would be to merge the forums with gw2’s subreddit since they are their each exact opposites. I don’t know about the other topics, but if you would carefully read my first message, you would see that I’m not even asking for specific features as much as I’m saying that players need more content to play with, otherwise they will just leave (same thing happens with other mmos that starts to stagnate after a while). Living story won’t make a big difference. And with more and more players getting bored and returning only for a short period of time, when a new episode is released, the gem shop will also lose it’s share of costumers. If this will happen, they will lose even more money and they will have even less resources to spend on new features and content. If they will reach that point,the game will be done for. And we don’t want that, do we?
In order to make the game grow, we need players that are happy with the “end game” (And based on what you said, if you like it, that doesn’t mean others will like it as well).
We don’t need new players to get a bigger player base. We just need more actual content so players won’t leave.
And I don’t know about you, but usually, I start wasting money after I’m certain that I’ll be spending lots of time in a game and not while I’m still leveling up.

Spira.4578:

-No, There were actual good system to make the whole commander SYSTEM not just TAGS better. From all the CDI we got a few colorful tags.

-I wasn’t talking about end game content directly. I was talking about content that would make players more interested (and invested) in gw2. And since GW2’s end game starts basically before you reach level 80, I was practicaly talking about features that could be used by everyone (once again, WvW, sPvP, guild features) while if we take in consideration other type of content, then certainly SAB, dungeons and fractals would come on my mind first.
-And all of those topics probably also received the whiteknight treatment. And that’s why I said I see why others just gave up on the forum. TBH, The best thing to do would be to merge the forums with gw2’s subreddit since they are their each exact opposites. I don’t know about the other topics, but if you would carefully read my first message, you would see that I’m not even asking for specific features as much as I’m saying that players need more content to play with, otherwise they will just leave (same thing happens with other mmos that starts to stagnate after a while). Living story won’t make a big difference. And with more and more players getting bored and returning only for a short period of time, when a new episode is released, the gem shop will also lose it’s share of costumers. If this will happen, they will lose even more money and they will have even less resources to spend on new features and content. If they will reach that point,the game will be done for. And we don’t want that, do we?
In order to make the game grow, we need players that are happy with the “end game” (And based on what you said, if you like it, that doesn’t mean others will like it as well).
We don’t need new players to get a bigger player base. We just need more actual content so players won’t leave.
And I don’t know about you, but usually, I start wasting money after I’m certain that I’ll be spending lots of time in a game and not while I’m still leveling up.

:-/ going in circles no point in continuing this discussion.

I can see you have good intentions but this is going nowhere. And look at your buddies ^ post above yours.

Does ANET listen?

If you want to know the answer to that question, then ask yourself, “Is Skyhammer still in soloq?”

That map’s existence in soloq pretty much sums up ANET’s listening skills.

Javonovich.5280:

Does ANET listen?

If you want to know the answer to that question, then ask yourself, “Is Skyhammer still in soloq?”

That map’s existence in soloq pretty much sums up ANET’s listening skills.

Maybe asking them to remove a map that a developer painstakingly modeled and had implemented because classes that have a harder time in confrontational pvp can suddenly oneshot other people doesn’t sit right with them.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Javonovich.5280:

Does ANET listen?

If you want to know the answer to that question, then ask yourself, “Is Skyhammer still in soloq?”

That map’s existence in soloq pretty much sums up ANET’s listening skills.

Maybe asking them to remove a map that a developer painstakingly modeled and had implemented because classes that have a harder time in confrontational pvp can suddenly oneshot other people doesn’t sit right with them.

Or maybe not, as they removed Raid on the Capricorn, and that map didn’t receive even a fraction of the ire that Skyhammer has.

Javonovich.5280:

… Raid on the Capricorn…

Conceal, don’t feel.

Good post, good points.

Spira.4578:

The thing is – in every single interview where the reporter asked players what should he ask anet, same features kept poping up. Anet should know by now what players actually want and focus on those features first regardless on how hard it is.

Mom: “Hey kids! What do you want for dinner!”

“Pizza!”
“I want lasagna.”
“CAKE!”
“Pasta…”
“Meatloaf!”
“Steak”
“Vegetables. Nothing but vegetables.”

Mom: “Ok… I’m just gonna make what’s most cost effective…”

“You’re a terrible mother.”
“Wow, I’m starving here and you’re going to feed me nothing?”
“I’m wasting away, mommy, help me…”
“I’m just gonna buy take-out then.”
“Yeah, I’m gonna go eat at my friend’s house. At least his mom actually cares.”
“Fine, whatever. I’ll eat it for now, but you better have steak next time.”
“Screw this, I’m unsubscribing.”

Mom: “Honey, I’m your mother, you can’t unsubscribe.”

“I’m gonna go live in a foster home then. I will have none of this.”

Mom: “You’re five…”

“So?”

Javonovich.5280:

Or maybe not, as they removed Raid on the Capricorn, and that map didn’t receive even a fraction of the ire that Skyhammer has.

As I recall, removing Capricorn had more to do with the underwater mechanics than the kitten of select players.

Spira.4578:

Vayne.8563:

You have no evidence that end game is more requested than anything else, except the forums. Anet has said in the past that most people never reached end game in the first Guild Wars game, and we know from other games, most recently Lotro, that most players never get to end game.

It’s so easy to say try to dismiss what I say with your opinions. I’m pretty sure that everyone on Lotro who wants raids believes most people raid, when we know from devs it’s not only less than 10% of the playerbase, but it’s ALWAYS been less than 10%.

Really? I think it’s OBVIOUS we all want end game as it’s the only thing that keeps an mmo going and we all want GW2 to keep going, right? Or do you maybe want it to die prematurely?

I asked for honesty so please be honest. Can you tell me which part of the GW2’s end game you didn’t explore yet? Cause personally I think that reaching level 50 fractals, doing all dungeons, getting all LS achievements and such is pretty much the absolute end of the end game. One you start repeating some kind of content over and over again, you reached end game. Players that started playing playing 2 years ago, reached that end game in less than a month and kept doing the same thing over and over again.

I’m being honest. Honestly most people don’t DO end game in most MMOs. That’s according to quotes over the years from Devs.

You know Wildstar is a game completely focused on the standard end game. It’s not doing that well. When Rift came out focused on end game, it received a lot of flack from the community. The end game myth, and it is a myth, traditionally affects a smaller number of players than you’d think. But they’re very vocal on the forums.

Did you see the quote from the lotro dev about raiding and PvP in Lotro? How less than 10% of the playerbase not only raids now, but has ever raided. I’m not making it up, I can find it for you again, if you like.

It led to the decision to not include raids in upcoming patches.

There is a market for hard end game content, but like TA Aetherblade path, harder content, ie end game content, is really not what “most” people want. That’s not to say no one. But most people…in my opinion.

I’m pretty sure the devs have metrics and have had metrics for a long time about how many people gravitate to harder content.

Spira.4578:

Was this supposed to be funny?
And you missed the point completely.
First of all Anet is not our mom. Second of all, we’re their costumers so here’s a more appropriate conversation.

Merchant: Hello dear costumer, are you searching for something in particular?
Buyer: Salad, tomatoes, maybe lettuce, or some similar vegetables.
Merchant: Ah vegetables, I see. Here, have some detergent.
Buyer: It’s nice that you have detergent, but i don’t really need it. I need vegetables.
Merchant: Oh well, come back later. We don’t currently have it yet, but hey! it’s definitely on the table.

Yes, it was, and I got a good laugh out of writing it.

But sorry, no, I did not miss the point. I just disagree. I’m quite aware that Anet is not our mom and we are not 5-year-olds. You’d think that would be something that goes without saying, but I guess it does not.

The point is that it’s easy to look and think that the community is shouting for a few specific things and Anet just needs to do those things and we’ll all be happy. But the reality is much different.

For example, notice how varied the desired features are in this thread alone (and it’s barely 2 pages):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-are-3-features-that-you-wish-the-most/first

You’re right. WE are customers. I agree 100%.

You believe, really really believe, that the people on this forum make up the majority of the customers of this game, or at very least, those posting to these forums are truly representative of the majority.

I truly believe that special interest groups are always louder than the population of any game.

I believe Anet has metrics that can track stuff you and I have not the faintest idea about.

Like when people said, I don’t see how the downed state is so hard to understand and Anet is moving it till level five. Colin posted an entire explanation not only on how extensively they tested it, but how many solutions they tried that didn’t change the result.

But the forum, if you listen to them, mostly think it’s stupid, so it must be stupid, right?

It’s ridiculous to believe that Anet doesn’t have metrics on what people actually play. It’s ridiculous to believe that a company would provide only stuff to a minority and ignore the majority.

But somehow people still believe this.

Vayne.8563:

Colin posted an entire explanation not only on how extensively they tested it, but how many solutions they tried that didn’t change the result.

Incidentally, where was this posted? I missed it.

Vayne.8563:

Spira.4578:

Vayne.8563:

You have no evidence that end game is more requested than anything else, except the forums. Anet has said in the past that most people never reached end game in the first Guild Wars game, and we know from other games, most recently Lotro, that most players never get to end game.

It’s so easy to say try to dismiss what I say with your opinions. I’m pretty sure that everyone on Lotro who wants raids believes most people raid, when we know from devs it’s not only less than 10% of the playerbase, but it’s ALWAYS been less than 10%.

Really? I think it’s OBVIOUS we all want end game as it’s the only thing that keeps an mmo going and we all want GW2 to keep going, right? Or do you maybe want it to die prematurely?

I asked for honesty so please be honest. Can you tell me which part of the GW2’s end game you didn’t explore yet? Cause personally I think that reaching level 50 fractals, doing all dungeons, getting all LS achievements and such is pretty much the absolute end of the end game. One you start repeating some kind of content over and over again, you reached end game. Players that started playing playing 2 years ago, reached that end game in less than a month and kept doing the same thing over and over again.

I’m being honest. Honestly most people don’t DO end game in most MMOs. That’s according to quotes over the years from Devs.

You know Wildstar is a game completely focused on the standard end game. It’s not doing that well. When Rift came out focused on end game, it received a lot of flack from the community. The end game myth, and it is a myth, traditionally affects a smaller number of players than you’d think. But they’re very vocal on the forums.

Did you see the quote from the lotro dev about raiding and PvP in Lotro? How less than 10% of the playerbase not only raids now, but has ever raided. I’m not making it up, I can find it for you again, if you like.

It led to the decision to not include raids in upcoming patches.

There is a market for hard end game content, but like TA Aetherblade path, harder content, ie end game content, is really not what “most” people want. That’s not to say no one. But most people…in my opinion.

I’m pretty sure the devs have metrics and have had metrics for a long time about how many people gravitate to harder content.

But gw2 is not most of other mmos, is it?
We start with end game content sooner. And I NEVER said it would be good to add more hard content. What I said was that we need content and features that would give players more things to do after they reach level 80 (since leveling is already really easy in this game and you can easily reach level 80 in less than a week).
2 years after release they should be primary focusing on this kind of things (Since it would benefit both old and new players). Players HAVE TO BE ENTERTAINED in order to stay in game. However you look at it, ANET will have to do something about it. LS and early game tweaks sugarcoated in a feature pack just won’t do the trick.

Vayne.8563:

You believe, really really believe, that the people on this forum make up the majority of the customers of this game, or at very least, those posting to these forums are truly representative of the majority.

I truly believe that special interest groups are always louder than the population of any game.

Not at all. Thanks god. There are also people on reddit, people ingame and people on facebook too. If you’re talking about demanded features and such, then please explain to me, how would they be able to see if players would like to have guild halls, if they are not even implemented ingame? In this case, players need to speak up and express what they would like to see ingame. The questions on the community interviews were in most cases based on the most frequently asked questions.
Being loud goes both ways. It’s not a feature only of those who you don’t share your opinion with. The white knights are loud too.

It’s ridiculous to believe that Anet has metrics on what people WANT to play.

I never said that ANET is providing only stuff to a minority and ignore the majority.
What I’m saying is that based on the latest interviews and the feature pack they clearly put too much energy into early game instead of end game which is what mmos are all about.

And with End game i mean things that you do repeatably after reaching max level.

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

Colin posted an entire explanation not only on how extensively they tested it, but how many solutions they tried that didn’t change the result.

Incidentally, where was this posted? I missed it.

It was a response on reddit.

Vayne.8563:

I’m being honest. Honestly most people don’t DO end game in most MMOs. That’s according to quotes over the years from Devs.

Traditionally, my ‘endgame’ has been to roll an alt. That’s why I like games with an abundance of content – so my alts don’t do have to do the same things their predecessors did.

It depends on what there is to do. In CoH I’d sometimes play my 50s in team situations like Task Forces, just for the fun of it, but usually me and my (ahem) super friends would start new characters after our old ones hit 50, and clobber our way through the game again. In Guild Wars, after all my guildies and friends had moved on, I filled my necro’s master dungeon guide and got Legendary Cartographer, and my rit beat up bosses and took their greens. I ran through all the campaigns several times with different characters. May even do it again someday. But probably not.

Here, I take different 80s to boss events. I’ve tried to do the dungeon thing, but I don’t much like the dungeons here. Or Fractals. But hey, I rolled a brand new ele last night after splurging on a new character slot and a makeover kit, so whee. First cash I’ve spent here in a looooong time. That old alt-itis itch, along with a heaping helping of nostalgia. I’m going to hold off on playing this one, though, until the fresh start stuff goes live.

Anyway, just tossing that out there. Carry on.

Vayne.8563:

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

Colin posted an entire explanation not only on how extensively they tested it, but how many solutions they tried that didn’t change the result.

Incidentally, where was this posted? I missed it.

It was a response on reddit.

Thanks, found it. For anyone else who might be interested, the post in question is in this reddit topic:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2etzxq/a_fresh_start_the_new_player_experience_in_guild/

Thanks for the link, I could not find it. Probably because of the ‘ArenaColin’ thing. Lol.

Not only the information about early game mechanics, but it’s interesting hearing about the percentage of forum-users/Reddit-users ratio to game players, as well. You learn something every day!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Thanks for the link, I could not find it. Probably because of the ‘ArenaColin’ thing. Lol.

Not only the information about early game mechanics, but it’s interesting hearing about the percentage of forum-users/Reddit-users ratio to game players, as well. You learn something every day!

Yup! I wasn’t exactly surprised to hear that they used extensive usability testing (I know it’s something valuable in any kind of software) but I was nonetheless impressed to know that they’re utilizing it so heavily, even for something as simple as downed state.

Spira.4578:

Don’t get me wrong, the leveling experience IS important, however most of the upcoming features from this feature pack should have already been introduced to the game at least a year ago,
when many players were still leveling up their characters.

TL;DR: Please ANET, listen to us.

I found your post mirror several of my thoughts but I’ll wait to see what the update is next week. An actual announcement of an expansion and not a living story “filler” for the main story would be most welcome. Although, LS2 is great in my opinion.

Spira.4578:

Shen Slayer.3058:

The veterans are not making Anet money

Maybe if there would be better skins in cash shop things would be different.

I don’t care about better skins. I want to be able to buy them. I don’t want any of this Black Lion Chest RNG nonsense.

Buy to play.Veterans already bought the game.You can leave anytime and come back anytime.Game or not game it’s still business.

Labjax.2465:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Thanks for the link, I could not find it. Probably because of the ‘ArenaColin’ thing. Lol.

Not only the information about early game mechanics, but it’s interesting hearing about the percentage of forum-users/Reddit-users ratio to game players, as well. You learn something every day!

Yup! I wasn’t exactly surprised to hear that they used extensive usability testing (I know it’s something valuable in any kind of software) but I was nonetheless impressed to know that they’re utilizing it so heavily, even for something as simple as downed state.

I’ve been saying this all along. Anet has so much data coming in. You can argue perhaps that they’re misinterpreting the data, but they know so much more about traffic patterns in this game than we do.

So they make decisions on what they know.

Suppose, hypothetically, that 20% of the player base comes to the forums (which is I think a high estimate) and of that 20% only 20% actually post, which I also think it a high estimate. That means only 5% of the player base are posting here on the forums. For sure the most engaged, active part of the community.

However, I played Guild Wars 1 for an obscene number of hours, had my own guild, played that game to death and almost never posted on any forums. The one time I posted was when I’d been hacked. Other than that, no forums saw me.

I’m sure a lot of people wished that had continued. lol

Vayne.8563:

Labjax.2465:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Thanks for the link, I could not find it. Probably because of the ‘ArenaColin’ thing. Lol.

Not only the information about early game mechanics, but it’s interesting hearing about the percentage of forum-users/Reddit-users ratio to game players, as well. You learn something every day!

Yup! I wasn’t exactly surprised to hear that they used extensive usability testing (I know it’s something valuable in any kind of software) but I was nonetheless impressed to know that they’re utilizing it so heavily, even for something as simple as downed state.

I’ve been saying this all along. Anet has so much data coming in. You can argue perhaps that they’re misinterpreting the data, but they know so much more about traffic patterns in this game than we do.

So they make decisions on what they know.

Suppose, hypothetically, that 20% of the player base comes to the forums (which is I think a high estimate) and of that 20% only 20% actually post, which I also think it a high estimate. That means only 5% of the player base are posting here on the forums. For sure the most engaged, active part of the community.

However, I played Guild Wars 1 for an obscene number of hours, had my own guild, played that game to death and almost never posted on any forums. The one time I posted was when I’d been hacked. Other than that, no forums saw me.

I’m sure a lot of people wished that had continued. lol

LOL! your input is appreciated (at least from me, regardless if we agree or not)(Respectful discussion is ALWAYS a good thing)

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.

I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.

I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.

Easy answer. Content is changes to the base game aren’t marketing decisions. Marketing is a whole different thing. NO one says that the marketing department is brilliant, but when it comes to making the core game better, that’s a completely different team.

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.

I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.

Easy answer. Content is changes to the base game aren’t marketing decisions. Marketing is a whole different thing. NO one says that the marketing department is brilliant, but when it comes to making the core game better, that’s a completely different team.

If that would be so, GW2 would probably have a bigger playerbase right now and a base of happier players in general. ANET already knows that their playerbase is cylcing and that most of the players they get are trough the living story. The core game was awesome and it’s the only thing that makes players stay ingame for so long. But sadly 2 years after release, players are starting to run out of things to do and those small updates won’t change that.
I’m always over-hyped when a new LS episode comes out. But lately I asked myself.. Is it really because it’s so awesome or is it because the game is stagnating and the LS is the only change in the game that makes the game seem running its clogs for at least some time. It’s the latest. Don’t get me wrong, I still like the LS, but not as much to get over-hyped.
I’m aware that anet is working on other things too, and as I stated in the first message, at this point I’d personally be happy if they would at least be honest and tell us WHAT are they working on, so we could actually have something to look for. Saying things like “we can’t tell you much right now” and “it’s on the table” only let me know that they have a huge table.

I hope you understand that if I wouldn’t like this game, I wouldn’t waste my time trying to prove this point to you and other people like you, but would simply write something and then go.
I understand that your point of view is different, but could you stop defending them so much and try to prove that everyone else is wrong? You mentioned metrics and stuff like that, but you don’t really have proof for that, do you? It’s your belief which you think is true – and that’s okay. But at the same time, you are disproving anyone elses beliefs on subjects you don’t agree with.
Why do you have to keep trying to make fools out of everyone else who think differently?
We are all here to try and make a difference, we’re just doing it in a different way. Could you at least respect that? I don’t care if you are an über veteran player with 19k AP. You’re a player, same as everyone else. You don’t have to defend ANET. It’s not your job. You don’t even have to defend them in this topic since the message is not an attack at all.
As I stated many times already, I’m a fan of this game and I don’t want it to die. That’s it. If you can’t agree with me on the things that I wrote in the first message, at least respect that and leave it as it is.
If what I wrote is really so irrelevant and untrue, ANET won’t do anything about it and you would be right. But if all the complaints and thoughts written on the forum and other social medias would actually make a difference, wouldn’t you be happy too?
It’s not your job to get in between players and ANET. It’s not your job to defend them all the time based on your personal beliefs. ANET can speak for themselves.

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.

I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.

Easy answer. Content is changes to the base game aren’t marketing decisions. Marketing is a whole different thing. NO one says that the marketing department is brilliant, but when it comes to making the core game better, that’s a completely different team.

Question. Wouldn’t marketing be involved in decisions as to pricing items in the gem store? I wouldn’t think marketing would be making decisions on ingame gold sinks. That would seem to be more along the line of John Smith’s job.

Since they were designing this feature in response to people wanting an easy way to use tags to delegate tasks in WvW and PvE, why would they think that hundreds of gold for each color would be part of this easy way? From chat in game, I have gathered that most people have less than 100 gold. From forum comments, I have gathered that WvW commanders are unlikely to have 300 gold for one color change much less the gold for a full set for easy use to delegate tasks. If the Devs are reading the forum comments and playing WvW, they should also know that the commanders don’t have that sort of gold.

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.

I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.

Easy answer. Content is changes to the base game aren’t marketing decisions. Marketing is a whole different thing. NO one says that the marketing department is brilliant, but when it comes to making the core game better, that’s a completely different team.

Is Marketing a part of Anet or not? You didn’t say devs. You said Anet. Anet is the entire company, marketing department and all.

So I ask again, what makes you think Anet knows what is best when they were fully ready to make a decision like that?

Spira.4578:

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.

I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.

Easy answer. Content is changes to the base game aren’t marketing decisions. Marketing is a whole different thing. NO one says that the marketing department is brilliant, but when it comes to making the core game better, that’s a completely different team.

If that would be so, GW2 would probably have a bigger playerbase right now and a base of happier players in general. ANET already knows that their playerbase is cylcing and that most of the players they get are trough the living story. The core game was awesome and it’s the only thing that makes players stay ingame for so long. But sadly 2 years after release, players are starting to run out of things to do and those small updates won’t change that.
I’m always over-hyped when a new LS episode comes out. But lately I asked myself.. Is it really because it’s so awesome or is it because the game is stagnating and the LS is the only change in the game that makes the game seem running its clogs for at least some time. It’s the latest. Don’t get me wrong, I still like the LS, but not as much to get over-hyped.
I’m aware that anet is working on other things too, and as I stated in the first message, at this point I’d personally be happy if they would at least be honest and tell us WHAT are they working on, so we could actually have something to look for. Saying things like “we can’t tell you much right now” and “it’s on the table” only let me know that they have a huge table.

I hope you understand that if I wouldn’t like this game, I wouldn’t waste my time trying to prove this point to you and other people like you, but would simply write something and then go.
I understand that your point of view is different, but could you stop defending them so much and try to prove that everyone else is wrong? You mentioned metrics and stuff like that, but you don’t really have proof for that, do you? It’s your belief which you think is true – and that’s okay. But at the same time, you are disproving anyone elses beliefs on subjects you don’t agree with.
Why do you have to keep trying to make fools out of everyone else who think differently?
We are all here to try and make a difference, we’re just doing it in a different way. Could you at least respect that? I don’t care if you are an über veteran player with 19k AP. You’re a player, same as everyone else. You don’t have to defend ANET. It’s not your job. You don’t even have to defend them in this topic since the message is not an attack at all.
As I stated many times already, I’m a fan of this game and I don’t want it to die. That’s it. If you can’t agree with me on the things that I wrote in the first message, at least respect that and leave it as it is.
If what I wrote is really so irrelevant and untrue, ANET won’t do anything about it and you would be right. But if all the complaints and thoughts written on the forum and other social medias would actually make a difference, wouldn’t you be happy too?
It’s not your job to get in between players and ANET. It’s not your job to defend them all the time based on your personal beliefs. ANET can speak for themselves.

The proof about metrics is in stuff they’ve posted. Either they’re lying or they have metrics. It’s what they’ve said. I don’t believe they’re lying because I know something about business.

What business says, look all our players are playing dungeons, let’s focus on crafting. Answer. None of them. I don’t believe any business of any size that has customers doesn’t have some way of measuring how their customers use their products.

They make decisions based on those metrics, because those metrics are sold. The forums, on the other hand, are amorphous. They’re a bunch of people posting opinions, wildly differing opinions if you haven’t noticed. Opinions that tell us nothing except that dissatisfied people like to complain.

Anet knows how many people are in game, and how many are posting on forums. It’s another metric. They also know what percentage are posting and what percentage are lurking.

Since Anet has told us about these metrics and since it’s completely logical and even normal for a business to have them, why would you doubt them? Do you have evidence that Anet doesn’t have them? Because it seems to be quite certain that they they do, down to which creature killed the most players during the first year of play.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.

I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.

Easy answer. Content is changes to the base game aren’t marketing decisions. Marketing is a whole different thing. NO one says that the marketing department is brilliant, but when it comes to making the core game better, that’s a completely different team.

Is Marketing a part of Anet or not? You didn’t say devs. You said Anet. Anet is the entire company, marketing department and all.

So I ask again, what makes you think Anet knows what is best when they were fully ready to make a decision like that?

Anet is a company and companies don’t know anything. It’s people in companies who know things. By your definition, no company in the world knows anything. Only people in the company knows things.

The major complaint of this thread, taken in context, is saying that Anet the developers, the people making the updates, don’t know what players want. Aside from the obvious fact that this is a deeply divided player base, and the fact that Anet has some kind of metrics, it’s more logical that they would know what’s going on than we would.

So you take one single decision to hold up as an example, that’s likely not to have been made by developers at all, and try to use that to prove the point. It does prove a point., but not the point you’re trying to prove.

It proves you’ll go to great lengths to win arguments,. when in fact within the boundaries of the topic of the thread, what I was saying was pretty clear.

Yes, decisions made by marketing are sometimes going to kitten players off. Fortunately, marketing doesn’t decide what upgrades are made, only how they’re monetized.

No one seems to want to grasp the fact that endgame is cosmetics, and the story hasn’t ended yet.
I don’t feel bad for anyone who rushes the storyline or the Living story parts and then whines that there’s nothing to do. Sit, play, relax and enjoy yourself. Don’t blitz through it in an hour and whine that there’s nothing left to do.

As for PvP and WvW… I’ll say nothing on maps, because WvW has enough maps, and I only wish they’d change colors more often. my world’s been stuck as blue for 10 or 11 weeks now. And I don’t do sPvP because I’m terrible at it.

Vayne.8563:

The proof about metrics is in stuff they’ve posted. Either they’re lying or they have metrics. It’s what they’ve said. I don’t believe they’re lying because I know something about business.

Can you show me some actual post about this kind of metrics?

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe any business of any size that has customers doesn’t have some way of measuring how their customers use their products.

BELIEVE. not KNOW.
That doesn’t make it a fact. And once again. They can’t measure what players want if the feature is not yet implemented in game.
And do you SERIOUSLY believe that some kind of metrics showed them that most players currently want leveling up features. Really? Come on.. don’t act so stupid.

Vayne.8563:

Do you have evidence that Anet doesn’t have them?

Do you have evidence that they ACTUALLY do?

Vayne.8563:

Because it seems to be quite certain that they they do, down to which creature killed the most players during the first year of play.

And second. Players keep leaving. At some point they will run out of new players coming to the game for the first time too.

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

I’d love to know, OP, why you think you know what’s better for the game and the community than Anet.

I’d love to know, Vayne, why you think Anet knows what’s better for the game and the community when they were prepared to, and thought it was a good idea to charge 300g per colored commander tag.

Easy answer. Content is changes to the base game aren’t marketing decisions. Marketing is a whole different thing. NO one says that the marketing department is brilliant, but when it comes to making the core game better, that’s a completely different team.

Is Marketing a part of Anet or not? You didn’t say devs. You said Anet. Anet is the entire company, marketing department and all.

So I ask again, what makes you think Anet knows what is best when they were fully ready to make a decision like that?

Anet is a company and companies don’t know anything. It’s people in companies who know things. By your definition, no company in the world knows anything. Only people in the company knows things.

The major complaint of this thread, taken in context, is saying that Anet the developers, the people making the updates, don’t know what players want. Aside from the obvious fact that this is a deeply divided player base, and the fact that Anet has some kind of metrics, it’s more logical that they would know what’s going on than we would.

So you take one single decision to hold up as an example, that’s likely not to have been made by developers at all, and try to use that to prove the point. It does prove a point., but not the point you’re trying to prove.

It proves you’ll go to great lengths to win arguments,. when in fact within the boundaries of the topic of the thread, what I was saying was pretty clear.

Yes, decisions made by marketing are sometimes going to kitten players off. Fortunately, marketing doesn’t decide what upgrades are made, only how they’re monetized.

I was working in my countries main telecom helpdesk center for 6 years. I can ASSURE you that even if a company has statistics and a plan to follow, made by professionals and checked and overchecked by the employees from different divisions it will still goof it up on occasions and cause serious problems. One thing are statistics another is the situation that happens (even if the intentions were good). ANET need to know that what they did was okay, but that 2 years after release they should mainly be focusing on end game features, not early game.

Spira.4578:

Vayne.8563:

The proof about metrics is in stuff they’ve posted. Either they’re lying or they have metrics. It’s what they’ve said. I don’t believe they’re lying because I know something about business.

Can you show me some actual post about this kind of metrics?

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe any business of any size that has customers doesn’t have some way of measuring how their customers use their products.

BELIEVE. not KNOW.
That doesn’t make it a fact. And once again. They can’t measure what players want if the feature is not yet implemented in game.
And do you SERIOUSLY believe that some kind of metrics showed them that most players currently want leveling up features. Really? Come on.. don’t act so stupid.

Vayne.8563:

Do you have evidence that Anet doesn’t have them?

Do you have evidence that they ACTUALLY do?

Vayne.8563:

Because it seems to be quite certain that they they do, down to which creature killed the most players during the first year of play.

Dude this is tiresome. I said they’ve said, so of course there are quotes. Because I don’t care to do your research for you, you can google the first year anniversary infograph which includes all kinds of stats you don’t get without metrics. Then there’s this…

A lot of stuff is being said about the current patch and stuff like who the hell needs the downed state to not start til level 5. This is the reply Colin gave on reddit, which I’ve already posted to two other threads.

To paraphrase they extensively tested the leveling process in a number of markets with a number of people. They were surprised by some of the results. They tried various solutions. The level five thing is the one that worked. I’m sure someone can provide the link for you, hell it’s probably in this thread somewhere.

What does that answer tell you about Anet and metrics?

And second. Players keep leaving. At some point they will run out of new players coming to the game for the first time too.