Guild Wars 2

3-5hours daily, doesn’t really sound casual at all.

Could it be that you are just lazy and don’t want to do anything to get the legendary?

Mirta.5029:

1. This game is not about stats. You can beat content in yellows and greens. Getting pink is optional.
2. I have characters in cultural. Didn’t grind for it. I took my time with it. It’s a skin. You don’t need it.
3. run a fractal a day. You’ll have 2 rings that you want in 20 days. Plenty of other rings will drop as well. You can use those to gear up your alts. Every 20 days you’ll be able to buy an amulet. If you’re a sane person you probably will come to the conclusion that the back piece and earrings are not worth the bother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_%28video_gaming%29

1) What’s your point? Green and rares beat the game, sure. Are you going to run around in blues and rares to do Dungeons and WvW? Does it have anything to do with casual players? How about this. Doing Dynamic Events in GW2’s world gives you a new currency that allows you to buy Ascended items. This is your casual gamer’s mindset. Not bloody repetitive fractals * 30 for rings. You cannot be serious.

2) True, you don’t need cultural skins. I spent my gold on getting weapon skins instead. Casual players probably spent money on getting gem skins over farming. I can agree on the point that you don’t need this, but ascended is another story.

3) Read wiki link and 1) again; this game isn’t casual. When the legendary weapons came out, everyone was going, ahhh the exotic weapons are the same stats, you don’t need the legendary weapons anyway. THIS was Anet’s winning point for the casuals. Then they threw that out of the window when they introduced Ascended trinklets. Then they claimed that one day if ascended weapons stats ever changed, legendary weapons WILL reflect that as well. I stopped playing for 3 months after that.

Where does that leave the casual players?

Sometimes I just wonder if people are blindly defending Anet. I look at my useless profession which only goes up to exotic crafting, and sometimes I wonder if Anet is ever going to fix this. Probably never.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Sometimes I just wonder if people are blindly defending Anet. I look at my useless profession which only goes up to exotic crafting, and sometimes I wonder if Anet is ever going to fix this. Probably never.

Sometimes I just wonder if people didn’t play GW1 the game that had the same “no-grind” philosophy.

The grind in GW1 was ridiculus and not even as optional as in GW2 cough skills that get more effective the higher your titlerank is cough

No, I did not play GW1, but I have heard of DR from it. It’s just as well, GW2 isn’t for a casual gamer. All MMORPGs are reliant of you logging in everyday to grind for things.

LoneWolfie.1852:

No, I did not play GW1, but I have heard of DR from it. It’s just as well, GW2 isn’t for a casual gamer. All MMORPGs are reliant of you logging in everyday to grind for things.

You’d be right if you needed those things to play the game… but you don’t. The only area of the game that might be considered gear-locked is the higher levels of the fractals, but you get stuff in the fractals to deal with that. It’s self contained.

Everything else is playable even with rare, or green gear, never mind legendary. You have convinced yourself you need BIS gear to play this game…but it’s not true.

Is that true really true with the other MMO? GW2 is my first MMO, and from what you said, you need full gear to go into some dungeon runs in WoW or something?

In any case, what you say about everything is playable in greens is true. I can go into WvW and get myself killed with all greens and still claim it’s playable. How about you go into WvW using all greens, maybe use an upleveled character too, and go into WvW and play? That’s certainly still playable.

Or about going into Arah explorables with a full party of all greens! That will make it exciting too!

I’m not even sure how this argument works. I can use a white dagger and stab a mob 1000 times before killing it, or I can use an exotic dagger and kill it in 500 strikes. It’s still playable.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Is that true really true with the other MMO? GW2 is my first MMO, and from what you said, you need full gear to go into some dungeon runs in WoW or something?

In any case, what you say about everything is playable in greens is true. I can go into WvW and get myself killed with all greens and still claim it’s playable. How about you go into WvW using all greens, maybe use an upleveled character too, and go into WvW and play? That’s certainly still playable.

Or about going into Arah explorables with a full party of all greens! That will make it exciting too!

I’m not even sure how this argument works. I can use a white dagger and stab a mob 1000 times before killing it, or I can use an exotic dagger and kill it in 500 strikes. It’s still playable.

Well, let’s put it a simpler way. I’ve beaten Arah without exotic armor, and without any ascended gear. Likewise in WvW, I win far more battles than I lose without ascended gear. In fact, WvW was NEVER supposed to be balanced 1v1. It’s group v. group and the odds are you wearing ascended gear or not won’t make the difference.

I mean if you personally think that you can beat Arah with ascended gear and you wouldn’t be able to beat it without, let me put it to you another way.

Arah existed before ascended gear and people still beat it.

And yes, in most MMOs there is a hard requirement to have specific gear to do specific influences. When I played Rift, you couldn’t even queue for a dungeon if you didn’t meet the gear check. The game wouldn’t allow you.

danbuter.2314:

3 to 5 hours per day is not casual. Also, Tier 3 armor sucks compared to much cheaper Exotics (but most of it looks great). The big issue here is that Tier 3 items are grossly overpriced.

Are you one of these people who havent discovered yet what transmutation stones are for or the concept of a “skin” and keep contributing to the seemingly endless posts about T3 armor being too expensive? Because if you think I’m roaming around in my Tier 3 armor with stats significantly worse than your “cheaper exotics” you are going to be unpleasantly disappointed. Who in their right mind would buy the T3 and leave the stats as rare?

The fact is this game being free (ok buy) to play makes it more akin to Angry Birds than WoW and so I don’t get why people are surprised that the game doesn’t give much away for free? Just be thankful you’re gameplay isnt interrupted every five minutes with adverts for haemorrhoid cream.

I know what a transmutation stone is. I still prefer how the HoM and SAB dispense items you clearly want only for the look.

In fact, WvW was NEVER supposed to be balanced 1v1. It’s group v. group and the odds are you wearing ascended gear or not won’t make the difference.

I wrote about upleveled characters running around in WvW with blues and greens. The odds that I’m wearing ascended gear and smiting them to pieces is very high. Even if it’s a Zerg vs Zerg, low level geared players tend to suffer.

My point is this:

Exotics was the equivalent of legendary weapons the previous time.
Ascended has an increase % in stats that has a clear difference in both WvW and Dungeon (5 players with ascended makes a difference.)
You can complete a dungeon faster with Ascended > Exotics > Rares > Greens in terms of time.

Do I think Ascended is a must obtained item? Yes. Simply because it offers faster completion of anything that requires damage/higher HP. If I have one hour to play everyday, I wish that I can do more in that one hour, and not hit the same monster X 100 times when I can finish it in 99 times and move on to more content.

LoneWolfie.1852:

In fact, WvW was NEVER supposed to be balanced 1v1. It’s group v. group and the odds are you wearing ascended gear or not won’t make the difference.

I wrote about upleveled characters running around in WvW with blues and greens. The odds that I’m wearing ascended gear and smiting them to pieces is very high. Even if it’s a Zerg vs Zerg, low level geared players tend to suffer.

My point is this:

Exotics was the equivalent of legendary weapons the previous time.
Ascended has an increase % in stats that has a clear difference in both WvW and Dungeon (5 players with ascended makes a difference.)
You can complete a dungeon faster with Ascended > Exotics > Rares > Greens in terms of time.

Do I think Ascended is a must obtained item? Yes. Simply because it offers faster completion of anything that requires damage/higher HP. If I have one hour to play everyday, I wish that I can do more in that one hour, and not hit the same monster X 100 times when I can finish it in 99 times and move on to more content.

Faster completion by how much? Do you have any idea? Do you know what percentage of the playerbase cares about completing something 1 minute or 2 minutes sooner.

Yes, there are a some hard core farmers who care. I say let them care. I’m pretty sure that the largest percentage of the playerbase isn’t stressed by this.

If you are…okay. Doesn’t phase me at all. I’m playing the game and enjoying myself.

BTW, I have ascended gear on a single character and a number of alts. I think I’d need stop watch to see a difference.

Vayne.8563:

Faster completion by how much? Do you have any idea? Do you know what percentage of the playerbase cares about completing something 1 minute or 2 minutes sooner.

Yes, there are a some hard core farmers who care. I say let them care. I’m pretty sure that the largest percentage of the playerbase isn’t stressed by this.

If you are…okay. Doesn’t phase me at all. I’m playing the game and enjoying myself.

BTW, I have ascended gear on a single character and a number of alts. I think I’d need stop watch to see a difference.

Erm, I don’t really need a stopwatch to see how much ascended works in WvW. I have 3 ascended items and I already noticed a difference in my burst damage attacks.

LoneWolfie.1852:

Vayne.8563:

Faster completion by how much? Do you have any idea? Do you know what percentage of the playerbase cares about completing something 1 minute or 2 minutes sooner.

Yes, there are a some hard core farmers who care. I say let them care. I’m pretty sure that the largest percentage of the playerbase isn’t stressed by this.

If you are…okay. Doesn’t phase me at all. I’m playing the game and enjoying myself.

BTW, I have ascended gear on a single character and a number of alts. I think I’d need stop watch to see a difference.

Erm, I don’t really need a stopwatch to see how much ascended works in WvW. I have 3 ascended items and I already noticed a difference in my burst damage attacks.

But you can’t prove and have no idea if you’re going to win a battle you would have lost or if you’d still have lost the battle.

As far as I’m concerned, ascended gear is most often used as an excuse for one someone was beaten in 1v1, even though they have no actual clue whether the person they’re fighting is in rares or exotics, or has ascended jewelry.

I can agree with most OP said, GW2 being incredibly grindy MMO where grind and TP play is obligatory if you want to get anywhere. That said, i am WvW player, enjoying it, and other aspects are not that important to me. I am thankful i am able to play the way i like, without need to do PvE at all.

That said, ArenaNet broke own words and promises when they added Ascended gear – which is only available through fractales/dailies grind. And the Guild Missions while nice as idea, ultimately boiled down to be anything but casual activity for big guilds only.

Vayne.8563:

LoneWolfie.1852:

Vayne.8563:

Faster completion by how much? Do you have any idea? Do you know what percentage of the playerbase cares about completing something 1 minute or 2 minutes sooner.

Yes, there are a some hard core farmers who care. I say let them care. I’m pretty sure that the largest percentage of the playerbase isn’t stressed by this.

If you are…okay. Doesn’t phase me at all. I’m playing the game and enjoying myself.

BTW, I have ascended gear on a single character and a number of alts. I think I’d need stop watch to see a difference.

Erm, I don’t really need a stopwatch to see how much ascended works in WvW. I have 3 ascended items and I already noticed a difference in my burst damage attacks.

But you can’t prove and have no idea if you’re going to win a battle you would have lost or if you’d still have lost the battle.

As far as I’m concerned, ascended gear is most often used as an excuse for one someone was beaten in 1v1, even though they have no actual clue whether the person they’re fighting is in rares or exotics, or has ascended jewelry.

So why did the developers take the time to make Ascended Gear that in your opinion, is not beneficial?

Wouldn’t it have been better to have either made gear that is useful or to have focused their attention elsewhere?

Yet another example of bad time and resource management by ANet by making something that has no benefit in the game.

You’re bored because the game is easy. There’s no challenge. When something is challenging; you have to spend time to practice; refine tactics to learn new skills.

GW2 is like a disneyland type of playground where everyone gets a medal. It’s completely normal to get bored of this.

Calae.1738:

You’re bored because the game is easy. There’s no challenge. When something is challenging; you have to spend time to practice; refine tactics to learn new skills.

GW2 is like a disneyland type of playground where everyone gets a medal. It’s completely normal to get bored of this.

This is exactly true. Why bother doing dungeons? We’ll give you better chests than any dungeon chests for killing world bosses in newbie starting areas! Yay!

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

LoneWolfie.1852:

Vayne.8563:

Faster completion by how much? Do you have any idea? Do you know what percentage of the playerbase cares about completing something 1 minute or 2 minutes sooner.

Yes, there are a some hard core farmers who care. I say let them care. I’m pretty sure that the largest percentage of the playerbase isn’t stressed by this.

If you are…okay. Doesn’t phase me at all. I’m playing the game and enjoying myself.

BTW, I have ascended gear on a single character and a number of alts. I think I’d need stop watch to see a difference.

Erm, I don’t really need a stopwatch to see how much ascended works in WvW. I have 3 ascended items and I already noticed a difference in my burst damage attacks.

But you can’t prove and have no idea if you’re going to win a battle you would have lost or if you’d still have lost the battle.

As far as I’m concerned, ascended gear is most often used as an excuse for one someone was beaten in 1v1, even though they have no actual clue whether the person they’re fighting is in rares or exotics, or has ascended jewelry.

So why did the developers take the time to make Ascended Gear that in your opinion, is not beneficial?

Wouldn’t it have been better to have either made gear that is useful or to have focused their attention elsewhere?

Yet another example of bad time and resource management by ANet by making something that has no benefit in the game.

We’ve been over this and over this and you’ve already asked me this question and I’ve already answered. It was called a compromise. It gave the people who wanted that kind of progression something to do without jeopardizing the rest of the game in the process. They could have not put it in, but I bet you the player population would be lower today than it would have been otherwise. I can’t prove that, of course, but I deeply believe it.

Some people left over it, but far more people stayed and more people joined. So yeah, it was a compromise. The people who need hard core gear grind won’t stay anyway, but many others who just need something to work for will.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

LoneWolfie.1852:

Vayne.8563:

Faster completion by how much? Do you have any idea? Do you know what percentage of the playerbase cares about completing something 1 minute or 2 minutes sooner.

Yes, there are a some hard core farmers who care. I say let them care. I’m pretty sure that the largest percentage of the playerbase isn’t stressed by this.

If you are…okay. Doesn’t phase me at all. I’m playing the game and enjoying myself.

BTW, I have ascended gear on a single character and a number of alts. I think I’d need stop watch to see a difference.

Erm, I don’t really need a stopwatch to see how much ascended works in WvW. I have 3 ascended items and I already noticed a difference in my burst damage attacks.

But you can’t prove and have no idea if you’re going to win a battle you would have lost or if you’d still have lost the battle.

As far as I’m concerned, ascended gear is most often used as an excuse for one someone was beaten in 1v1, even though they have no actual clue whether the person they’re fighting is in rares or exotics, or has ascended jewelry.

So why did the developers take the time to make Ascended Gear that in your opinion, is not beneficial?

Wouldn’t it have been better to have either made gear that is useful or to have focused their attention elsewhere?

Yet another example of bad time and resource management by ANet by making something that has no benefit in the game.

We’ve been over this and over this and you’ve already asked me this question and I’ve already answered. It was called a compromise. It gave the people who wanted that kind of progression something to do without jeopardizing the rest of the game in the process. They could have not put it in, but I bet you the player population would be lower today than it would have been otherwise. I can’t prove that, of course, but I deeply believe it.

Some people left over it, but far more people stayed and more people joined. So yeah, it was a compromise. The people who need hard core gear grind won’t stay anyway, but many others who just need something to work for will.

Who were the people that wanted progression through gear that didn’t add any value to their stats as you are implying they don’t?

I mean you have to understand that, based on your argument, ascended gear is worthless. Therefore, who would want a worthless gear progression?

I don’t see that as a compromise, I see that as lazy.

LoneWolfie.1852:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_%28video_gaming%29

1) What’s your point? Green and rares beat the game, sure. Are you going to run around in blues and rares to do Dungeons and WvW? Does it have anything to do with casual players? How about this. Doing Dynamic Events in GW2’s world gives you a new currency that allows you to buy Ascended items. This is your casual gamer’s mindset. Not bloody repetitive fractals * 30 for rings. You cannot be serious.

3) Read wiki link and 1) again; this game isn’t casual. When the legendary weapons came out, everyone was going, ahhh the exotic weapons are the same stats, you don’t need the legendary weapons anyway. THIS was Anet’s winning point for the casuals. Then they threw that out of the window when they introduced Ascended trinklets. Then they claimed that one day if ascended weapons stats ever changed, legendary weapons WILL reflect that as well. I stopped playing for 3 months after that.

Where does that leave the casual players?

Sometimes I just wonder if people are blindly defending Anet. I look at my useless profession which only goes up to exotic crafting, and sometimes I wonder if Anet is ever going to fix this. Probably never.

you seem unable to understand that the harder something is to get, the less people get it. I have a character with some ascended trinkets, sure, however she doesn’t perform that much better than my guardian in exotics, or my warrior in exotics mixed in with some green jewelry. I changed some of my character’s builds a couple of times and normally I couldn’t just re-buy the full gear instantly, so some of my characters would have green amulets and trinkets, some of them would run around with wrongly stated weapons. And you know what? I’m still able to beat arah.
If you got into your head that you NEED ascendeds, your problem. I personally don’t see the point.

Who is Fractals a compromise with? The WoW expatriots? Dungeons that take forever, and frequently take away your unique profession abilities so you can be a dolphin or whatever, smack of stuff they hate, like The Oculus. The casuals? Well good going making a dungeon that requires a 5-man party, doesn’t scale to any level except 80, and doesn’t give XP, then. People used to GOOD alternate advancement systems, like City of Heroes Incarnate Enhancements and Dark Age of Camelot Realm Ranks? LMAO

If anyone asked for Fractals, Laurels, and Ascended, then what they got is like asking for Lego for Christmas and getting Mega Blocks.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

LoneWolfie.1852:

Vayne.8563:

Faster completion by how much? Do you have any idea? Do you know what percentage of the playerbase cares about completing something 1 minute or 2 minutes sooner.

Yes, there are a some hard core farmers who care. I say let them care. I’m pretty sure that the largest percentage of the playerbase isn’t stressed by this.

If you are…okay. Doesn’t phase me at all. I’m playing the game and enjoying myself.

BTW, I have ascended gear on a single character and a number of alts. I think I’d need stop watch to see a difference.

Erm, I don’t really need a stopwatch to see how much ascended works in WvW. I have 3 ascended items and I already noticed a difference in my burst damage attacks.

But you can’t prove and have no idea if you’re going to win a battle you would have lost or if you’d still have lost the battle.

As far as I’m concerned, ascended gear is most often used as an excuse for one someone was beaten in 1v1, even though they have no actual clue whether the person they’re fighting is in rares or exotics, or has ascended jewelry.

So why did the developers take the time to make Ascended Gear that in your opinion, is not beneficial?

Wouldn’t it have been better to have either made gear that is useful or to have focused their attention elsewhere?

Yet another example of bad time and resource management by ANet by making something that has no benefit in the game.

We’ve been over this and over this and you’ve already asked me this question and I’ve already answered. It was called a compromise. It gave the people who wanted that kind of progression something to do without jeopardizing the rest of the game in the process. They could have not put it in, but I bet you the player population would be lower today than it would have been otherwise. I can’t prove that, of course, but I deeply believe it.

Some people left over it, but far more people stayed and more people joined. So yeah, it was a compromise. The people who need hard core gear grind won’t stay anyway, but many others who just need something to work for will.

Who were the people that wanted progression through gear that didn’t add any value to their stats as you are implying they don’t?

I mean you have to understand that, based on your argument, ascended gear is worthless. Therefore, who would want a worthless gear progression?

I don’t see that as a compromise, I see that as lazy.

Well you can see it any way you want. I see it differently.

The situation was people were not staying with the game at 80. I did. Other people like me did. But some people weren’t. Most of them who were leaving were saying there was nothing to do and what was most asked for was something to “work for”…which means grind in English. Because no developer can make enough content to keep the content locusts happy.

Are you saying people didn’t want higher stats. They actually probably wanted a lot more than Anet gave them, but Anet gave them just enough. Enough to keep them busy while they worked on other stuff. Not enough to ruin the game for guys like me.

They were always going to lose the ends of the spectrum with this. The people who absolutely couldn’t deal with any kind of vertical progression at all, and the people who wanted full on vertical progression, and raids and whatever. They weren’t going to please everyone. But they seemed to have pleased enough people to have kept the game going strong.

RebelYell.7132:

Who is Fractals a compromise with? The WoW expatriots? Dungeons that take forever, and frequently take away your unique profession abilities so you can be a dolphin or whatever, smack of stuff they hate, like The Oculus. The casuals? Well good going making a dungeon that requires a 5-man party, doesn’t scale to any level except 80, and doesn’t give XP, then. People used to GOOD alternate advancement systems, like City of Heroes Incarnate Enhancements and Dark Age of Camelot Realm Ranks? LMAO

If anyone asked for Fractals, Laurels, and Ascended, then what they got is like asking for Lego for Christmas and getting Mega Blocks.

Are you saying Fractals wasn’t/isn’t popular?

Vayne.8563:

RebelYell.7132:

Who is Fractals a compromise with? The WoW expatriots? Dungeons that take forever, and frequently take away your unique profession abilities so you can be a dolphin or whatever, smack of stuff they hate, like The Oculus. The casuals? Well good going making a dungeon that requires a 5-man party, doesn’t scale to any level except 80, and doesn’t give XP, then. People used to GOOD alternate advancement systems, like City of Heroes Incarnate Enhancements and Dark Age of Camelot Realm Ranks? LMAO

If anyone asked for Fractals, Laurels, and Ascended, then what they got is like asking for Lego for Christmas and getting Mega Blocks.

Are you saying Fractals wasn’t/isn’t popular?

Do I have empirical evidence that it isn’t? No. What I bring is logical conjecture.

RebelYell.7132:

Vayne.8563:

RebelYell.7132:

Who is Fractals a compromise with? The WoW expatriots? Dungeons that take forever, and frequently take away your unique profession abilities so you can be a dolphin or whatever, smack of stuff they hate, like The Oculus. The casuals? Well good going making a dungeon that requires a 5-man party, doesn’t scale to any level except 80, and doesn’t give XP, then. People used to GOOD alternate advancement systems, like City of Heroes Incarnate Enhancements and Dark Age of Camelot Realm Ranks? LMAO

If anyone asked for Fractals, Laurels, and Ascended, then what they got is like asking for Lego for Christmas and getting Mega Blocks.

Are you saying Fractals wasn’t/isn’t popular?

Do I have empirical evidence that it isn’t? No. What I bring is logical conjecture.

your logic completely ignores those groups of people outside fractals every day.

RebelYell.7132:

Vayne.8563:

RebelYell.7132:

Who is Fractals a compromise with? The WoW expatriots? Dungeons that take forever, and frequently take away your unique profession abilities so you can be a dolphin or whatever, smack of stuff they hate, like The Oculus. The casuals? Well good going making a dungeon that requires a 5-man party, doesn’t scale to any level except 80, and doesn’t give XP, then. People used to GOOD alternate advancement systems, like City of Heroes Incarnate Enhancements and Dark Age of Camelot Realm Ranks? LMAO

If anyone asked for Fractals, Laurels, and Ascended, then what they got is like asking for Lego for Christmas and getting Mega Blocks.

Are you saying Fractals wasn’t/isn’t popular?

Do I have empirical evidence that it isn’t? No. What I bring is logical conjecture.

All you have to do to see if Fractals are popular is look at how many people are constantly looking for fractal groups. People complain there’s no one in dungeons, because everyone is doing fractals.

My guild may not be typical but just about everyone in my guild likes Fractals, including me, and I don’t love grinding.

Because there are 9 of them and you’re only doing three for four at a time, there’s a bit of variety, as well as variety in each of the fractals. For example, in the dolphin on, I rarely get to be a dolphin. There’s another path through that which you might get which doesn’t turn you into a dolphin, but instead you have to swim through the piranha infested waters.

I’d go as far to say the fractals are the most popular dungeon in Guild Wars 2, with the exception of CoF path 1 and that’s only for farming. For pure fun and challenge far more people run Fractals.

If you’re seriously arguing they’re not popular, there’s not much left to argue about.

Vayne.8563:

Are you saying people didn’t want higher stats. They actually probably wanted a lot more than Anet gave them, but Anet gave them just enough. Enough to keep them busy while they worked on other stuff. Not enough to ruin the game for guys like me.

So when you said the following, you didn’t mean it?

But you can’t prove and have no idea if you’re going to win a battle you would have lost or if you’d still have lost the battle.
As far as I’m concerned, ascended gear is most often used as an excuse for one someone was beaten in 1v1, even though they have no actual clue whether the person they’re fighting is in rares or exotics, or has ascended jewelry.

You can’t have it both ways. Either Ascended gear is beneficial and useful in winning a battle or it isn’t.

You like to say it isn’t useful when people say that they need to grind for it in WvW – but then when asked why put something in the game that isn’t useful, you make a long post about how it is useful.

Either it is – and it is a reasonable problem for people wanted to use it in WvW to have no good way to get access to it – or it isn’t useful – and therefore shouldn’t be in the game.

Which is it?

Oh, I’ve no doubt Fractals are the most popular non-CoFp1 content on GW2LFG. I see no reason why someone would like the launch dungeons but not Fractals. But I don’t see why that crowd would have asked for another tier above Exotic. Gear progression is more the love of the Burning Crusade fan.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Are you saying people didn’t want higher stats. They actually probably wanted a lot more than Anet gave them, but Anet gave them just enough. Enough to keep them busy while they worked on other stuff. Not enough to ruin the game for guys like me.

So when you said the following, you didn’t mean it?

But you can’t prove and have no idea if you’re going to win a battle you would have lost or if you’d still have lost the battle.
As far as I’m concerned, ascended gear is most often used as an excuse for one someone was beaten in 1v1, even though they have no actual clue whether the person they’re fighting is in rares or exotics, or has ascended jewelry.

You can’t have it both ways. Either Ascended gear is beneficial and useful in winning a battle or it isn’t.

You like to say it isn’t useful when people say that they need to grind for it in WvW – but then when asked why put something in the game that isn’t useful, you make a long post about how it is useful.

Either it is – and it is a reasonable problem for people wanted to use it in WvW to have no good way to get access to it – or it isn’t useful – and therefore shouldn’t be in the game.

Which is it?

I think you completely misread my post and you should read it again. I didn’t at all say in that post that it was useful. I said the opposite. I said people use it as an excuse to excuse the fact that they lost. The implication is that they lost and would have lost anyway.

People like to blame their own failures on other stuff. So if they lose 1v1, it’s easy to say, I bet that guy had ascended gear. In reality they don’t know. I think that only a very very small percentage of times that you’d actually lose, you’d suddenly win due to ascended gear. I’ve said this before too.

When you meet someone 1v1 in WvW, you have a profession and a build and they have a profession and a build and certain builds have advantages over certain other builds. Often the nature of the builds will determine the outcome, followed by player skill. The stats, of course, add to that, but it’s skill selection as much as anything that make the difference. That and skill. Much more than stats.

So I’m not contradicting myself at all. You just completely missed the point.

I’m not really a casual player. Probably more average, in my playtime. I’m not really interested in a legendary at this point, because none of them really appeal to me, and I have plenty of other things to spend gold and time on first.

This thread, however, resonates with my biggest gripe with the game.

I have two level 80s. One is in max gear except one ring and one accessory. The other is about half in BiS gear. I’d love to finish getting her geared up, and I’m eyeing a third alt to level up as soon as I can get enough gear to craft-level to 40.

I play a couple hours most days. I have fun on the two eighties doing WvW, PvP, zone exploration, jumping puzzles, and DE chains.

Some days I choose to do the ridiculous world boss hop. I can get two to three gold out of my playtime doing this, with an occasional 3-8g bonus if I happen to get an exotic drop.

Doing the stuff I listed first…. the fun stuff, I get a pittance.

So each day I log on for my 1-2 hours I get to choose. Do I make significant advancement toward my goals? Or do I have fun?

I really like so much about this game. It just sucks to have to choose between play and income, because the tedious things (repeatedly run dungeons! waith for 20 minutes then zerg dragons right foot!) make way more money than just immersing in the world (or world v world) and having a blast.

Yes, I could just give up on upgrading gear or craft-leveling an alt (really not interested in doing 1-40 on any more characters) and just play my 80s. Eventually, I’ll accumulate enough money to buy something. But does it really have to be that way?

RebelYell.7132:

Oh, I’ve no doubt Fractals are the most popular non-CoFp1 content on GW2LFG. I see no reason why someone would like the launch dungeons but not Fractals. But I don’t see why that crowd would have asked for another tier above Exotic. Gear progression is more the love of the Burning Crusade fan.

But people did ask. People wanted a way to progress their character and anything besides that mild gear progression would take a whole lot of time to implement. Time Anet just didn’t have.

It’s so easy to sit back and judge what other’s do when you have so little invested in it. It’s not five years of your life and your millions of dollars. It’s Anets. They made a business decision based on what they thought was right for their game. You see that as somehow selling out.

Letting the game tank because too many people didn’t give it a chance, because there was no gear progression and that’s what they were used to wasn’t a better choice. And I think it would have happened. Certainly I think without the fractals there would be less players today.

Naturally I can’t prove it, but it’s very popularity must say something about it.

Interesting conversation going on here. I’ve a few thoughts in all this, I also am a casual gamer. However, I refuse to be pulled into “I have to get the legendary” frame of mind, and I refuse to be pushed into having to do dungeons just to get a weapon or look on my gear.

What I see is that the legendary is really not that much better than exotic. Mostly wanted for the look. I personally am not perusing the legendary because I don’t like the grind attached to it. Exotic is just fine by me.

As for dungeons, well, the only way I’ll do dungeons is if I run with guildies. I really am not a dungeon crawler by any stretch of the imagination.

Because my guild understands that many members are not skilled enough, they actually went out of their way to slow down and explain the how/why/wherefore of the dungeon being worked on. That is what made it fun for me. Patience and understanding to help someone like me goes a long way.

It is obvious to me that GW2 is not necessarily a solo game. I have never enjoyed soloing…its boring. I much prefer to run with friends/guild mates in this game. Companionship and shared laughter is what makes this game fun to me.

But I have to say this, as poor a player as I was, I have learned from my groups a lot about how to play my characters. That is what I have gained as I travel though this game…knowledge and ability for my characters has definitely improved.

Stop looking for things that can make you “addicted” to a game, and just judge it based on your own honest values. If you can’t find any fun reason to play a game anymore, then stop playing. The point where you say you’re playing with a coworker and having fun, yet still feel like you are wasting your time, because you feel forced to farm CoF, is the basic problem. Your mindset is screwed. You’re forcing yourself to do something that you don’t find fun, because it’s the only reason you have to keep playing.

The only real goal a game should be judge by, is whether or not you’re enjoying it. After all, gaming is an entertainment media, not a job.

Vayne.8563:

I said people use it as an excuse to excuse the fact that they lost. The implication is that they lost and would have lost anyway.

Which means that you think Ascended Gear wouldn’t have made a difference in them winning, which means it is useless.

If something isn’t going to help you win – and if winning is the only reason to use it – then it becomes useless.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

I said people use it as an excuse to excuse the fact that they lost. The implication is that they lost and would have lost anyway.

Which means that you think Ascended Gear wouldn’t have made a difference in them winning, which means it is useless.

If something isn’t going to help you win – and if winning is the only reason to use it – then it becomes useless.

in that case exotics are useless as well, because a skilled player in greens can beat a person in exotics. It’s not useless, because it DOES boost your stats, but this game isn’t all about stats meaning that no matter how much stats you pile on yourself you can still lose.

Mirta.5029:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

I said people use it as an excuse to excuse the fact that they lost. The implication is that they lost and would have lost anyway.

Which means that you think Ascended Gear wouldn’t have made a difference in them winning, which means it is useless.

If something isn’t going to help you win – and if winning is the only reason to use it – then it becomes useless.

in that case exotics are useless as well, because a skilled player in greens can beat a person in exotics. It’s not useless, because it DOES boost your stats, but this game isn’t all about stats meaning that no matter how much stats you pile on yourself you can still lose.

I’m not arguing against any of that.

I’m saying that one can’t switch their opinion merely to stay on the side of the argument they want.

Either, Ascended Gear is useful and desirable or it is not useful and shouldn’t be in the game.

Vayne is trying to say that Ascended Gear is both useless but has a purpose in the game. I don’t think you can have it both ways.

The introduction of ascended gear was a “sin” – a violation of their manifesto. Because, let’s face it: It is a grind to get ascended gear. It is not really a gruesome grind but it is one. I had to do about 20 fractal runs until I got 4 rings for my 2 main chars. I must do a lot of guild missions to get my ascended accessories. I don’t see how I can get an ascended backpack soon. Only the amulet is sort of “ungrindy”. It costs time but the dailies are not grind for me, most of it I do during normal play.

I sincerely hope that they don’t introduce another tier.

That out of the way I had no problems doing dungeons, wvw and pve with my exotic gear, without any ascended gear. I have only very rarely felt the power of ascension Big leaps in terms of being able to beat difficult content was made by me when guildies explained how to play better. How to use combo-fields, how to use utility skills like wall of reflection in the right way and so on. The difference in stats was ridiculous compared with that.

I think one can play GW2 without grind. And if you want ascended gear the grind is there but tolerable (it is not that grindy to do 20 fractal runs compared with what I had to do to get pegasus gear in Atlantica Online…). But of course what is tolerable and what not is a matter of taste. I am lucky that I like to do fractals and guild missions

They should give a different type of access to teamplay, like from oldschool fighting games add COMBO text somewhere in the screen when you actually use someone else his fields. Perhaps that wakes people up to combo there efforts because most people dont use it or dont know it (new players) and never seem to learn either.

Kinda already cuts into the whole idea of the game if most people dont get it.

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

whoa dude you can not place MF users in the same group as unskilled or even bad players. As well what game does not give more to MF users? Any game with MF gives a slightly higher chance to MF users. Plus MF != unskilled. I use MF gear in WvW and still kick kitten just cause I know how to play my character doesn’t mean I don’t die occasionally i usually just chalk those up to being outmanned or if it is a 1v1 fight just being outskilled by the other player and learn from your mistakes. DO NOT BLAME GEAR!

clay.7849:

Either, Ascended Gear is useful and desirable or it is not useful and shouldn’t be in the game.

Vayne is trying to say that Ascended Gear is both useless but has a purpose in the game. I don’t think you can have it both ways.

It is only “useless” in the sense that it isn’t required-wanting something isn’t the same as needing it. To that effect, Legendaries are also “useless”, but some people like them so they work, farm, and/or buy them. They have a purpose in game-giving the illusion of “progression” that many players crave.

While I enjoy the stats increase, I would be the first to admit that I don’t care that much for Fractals NOR WvW, so the minimal stat increase I get I use it to help others/friends/guildies on dungeons and PvE world map ventures. Having realized the cost of having 5 fully infused trinkets (for full AR), I know Fractals play wasn’t geared towards myself, as I would have to become nearly a full-time Fractal runner, and to be honest, I am not enthused with the idea (even if ascended gear/Fractals wouldn’t have been implemented, I would have still kept playing-I guess I am more dedicated than the “dedicated” players they were aiming Pink gear towards!)

That said, why do we care so much about it, especially since you can just go ahead and ignore all Fractals content if you so wish, while still being able to get some benefit of that addition by purchasing some of the stuff with Laurels? Some people have green/rare trinkets and still do great. Ascended gear falls into the “nice to have” stuff we don’t really need in life.

Therefore, yes, it is both “useless” (more, needless) and fulfills a purpose for a specific type of player we may not be, but many others seem to be.

I was never in favor of the stat increases myself, but I do notice how many just won’t let go of the issue as if it really affected the way they choose to play the game. When it was first implemented, it had a beta feel I didn’t like, and from the get go I knew it wasn’t catered for me. I admit I took offense with the developer’s comment “dedicated players”, because I was dedicated to GW2, and many of the people that always want content-content-content aren’t really “dedicated,” but just play at a frenetic pace. However, having seen the healthy population nowadays, whether they ignore either side of this equation-and better than back then from what I see everyday, though I admit this is just anecdotal evidence-I understand that they weren’t just catering to lovers of other games, but rather trying not to wholly alienate a specific type of gamer-in short, I still believe they stand for their so-called “manifesto”, but felt forced to adapt to a specific, unfavorable situation. Ascended gear should not affect the way you enjoy to play GW2, and if it does, it falls unto our shoulders, for making it a concern when it shouldn’t (we simply don’t need to acquire those pieces for one-never mind all-our characters.)

Star Ace.5207:

clay.7849:

Either, Ascended Gear is useful and desirable or it is not useful and shouldn’t be in the game.

Vayne is trying to say that Ascended Gear is both useless but has a purpose in the game. I don’t think you can have it both ways.

It is only “useless” in the sense that it isn’t required-wanting something isn’t the same as needing it. To that effect, Legendaries are also “useless”, but some people like them so they work, farm, and/or buy them. They have a purpose in game-giving the illusion of “progression” that many players crave.

But Vayne wasn’t saying that, he was saying that he believes that Ascended Gear’s stats don’t actually help you to win a fight.

If that is all that we equate gear to do, besides looking pretty, then it is useless if the stat gain doesn’t help you win a fight, which is what Vayne is implying.

Otherwise, I generally agree with what you are saying.