Guild Wars 2

Approximately 15-20 hours in into the champ train, my total mats for T5 was about 450+ across the board, while T6 was reasonably scarce and distributed, maybe 5-10+ each for all of them. Gold gain was at the very least 1.5 g per hour, while frostgorge proved to be a 2.5g-3.5g per hour, excluding sales of t6 mats.

Everything aside, about 40g was made + 23g (cobalt) = 63 g with 450 mats etc, which really isn’t a lot. I know some users got more with crystal guardians/precursors/entropy, but that’s RNG.

Now besides the call for COF p1 rerun nerf, here’s the list of other things users find an issue with.

1) Dynamic Events take a hit in completion.

Back then, Lyssa farm got hit with the nerf stick because some users wanted to complete the event (?) getting a chest. Which was incomprehensible to me, because I completed all that daily chest events in total of 100 times for the past few months. And we (majority of players who stay behind) all know we are doing the events for a reward, and not for fun’s sake.

Now, I’m not saying the users are wrong, it’s simply because GW2’s loot is completely and utterly dismal. I won’t be able to run around doing dynamic events because it rewards me. I have done that event one too many times, to be even remotely interested in it being fun.

I would think half of the players that stay behind in GW2 is because they want to have a certain shiny weapon or legendary, not because gw2 devs produced something that’s fun.

Now, I personally like completing events, but again, the loot is utterly rubbish. If anet devs actually rewarded completing events with the rewards of the current champ train, everyone will praise the generous system and balanced rewards. But that’s probably undoable with the bots.

2) Economy meltdown

Yes and no. Prices are dropping for T5 because the champs reward it a lot. T6 mats hardly broke a sweat, save for the rare lodestones where the unshakable 3g lodestones finally went to 2.15g. Powerful bloods remain at 30 silvers, armored scaled remained at 25 silvers.

There will be no change in T6 mats.

In my mind, it was a chance that ANet devs didn’t get to do. Imagine mini-legendaries. Instead of a direct weapon drop like entropy, it should be a craftable weapon in your weaponsmithing/huntsman/etc.

In example

Dark orb of X (Description of dark orb: This orb seems to pulse with malice and can be melded into a weapon, account bound) + 250 T5 mats + 25 T6 mats (putrid essence) + 25 T6 mats (powerful blood) = Entropy.

Balanced way of solving economy issue, and making use of your profession.

But for the most part, churning out events every 2 weeks is an overwhelming rush, and it’s just a suggestion on my part for future weapons, if any. I also don’t think the intake of 2-3 gold per hour will break the economy as well.

3) Disgruntled players.

Oh god, yes so much. Let me just say the whining on both ends irk me. Some of the most incredulous talk about time gating the champs, 1 chest per day, makes me think that this bugger has legendary weapons and doesn’t want to share on the wealth.

Then again, some of the champ train players who accuses dynamic event players of disrupting the gold farm with profanities doesn’t please me either.

I want this loot system. But I don’t want to see such irritating talk in map chat where it breaks the fun element.

4) Champ train is darn boring.

So after that southsun cove sweatshop farming, we gain another sweatshop crown pavillion. I am not pleased to be stuck in 6 farm areas that’s not even disguised as a sweatshop farming. Jesus. So ANet refuses to put back the CS events, and instead come up with all sort of enticing things like 150% mf in the area.

This is about as farmy as you can get. Entire thing is a grind. I see no difference in going to deadeye spamming 5 gambits and then beating the crap out of him with cof p1 warrior.

Champ train boring? I did about 20 hours of almost amicable train loop where we are both envious and happy for those who got their exotic drops they wanted. I doubt the farmers are bored with what they get. Even casuals can stop any time they want to.

Do I think champ train should be nerfed? Yes.

Unfortunately, this is just getting silly. Going around to do 6 champs day in day out, goes to show how utterly terrible Anet loot system is. One darn fine day after the respawn timer is changed, some ingenious commanders will go around the entire Tyria map leading a guild zerg to do all the champs.

This can’t be the solution either. DEs has to be more rewarding. If ANet manages to combine DEs + Champ loop = current state of loot drops, Tyria will be more lively, instead of the stagnant farm train going about.

My 2 coppers.

I have yet to join in on a zerg train out in Frostgorge or Cursed Shore, but I have seen some threads about the verbal abuse and false reports some players have been getting for trying to complete the DE’s and such.

The new champ loot was an ideal addition, but it ended up going wrong.

It’s molded some of the community that used to be friendly and nice, to be more ruthless and unforgiving of some random passerby doing a DE for a little extra karma and silver.

I myself don’t mind a farming session, nor do I see anything wrong with is so long as the players aren’t getting so kitten about it, and doing these false reports and verbal abuse to the random player. I can’t bother with the Crown Pavilion farm on the Destroyers or bosses anymore considering how boring it is to me. I still have yet to see a new weapon drop for me yet, still hoping for Cobalt and one of the swords.

I do agree that DE’s could be more rewarding, even if it’s more silver, or karma. Some of the longer, chain DE’s could maybe get a daily chest or something.

Ok my POV on this… it’s a farm with no DR. The income from it isn’t that on average, but a-net seems to be against farming in general. A simple fix would be to increase the respawn timers on some of these champs. The pirate in Gendarran Fields has a 2 min respawn timers, the giant in cursed shore have a 3 min one (iirc). They could simply increase the timers on these faster spawning mobs.

That being said I find nothing wrong with people doing these farms or a farm being available in the game. I do it myself while watching shows as you hardly need to pay attention with some of them. Just looking at this from the general POV of A-net and what they’ve said they wanted in the game in the past.

The whole loot revision has been weird. DEs are supposed to be the bread and butter of GW2’s PvE, but what do you get for a DE? 1,5 silver and some karma. Even back when Orr DE farming was a thing, people got their stuff from killing mobs during the DE and not completing the DE itself.

I don’t know why they chose to give you loot bags for killing champs instead of giving them for completing the DEs those champs are involved in.

Aaaand… Incoming nerf.

You all really should know how this works by now.

In response to number 4.):

Anything that players opt to do repetitively for long stretches of time will turn out to be boring, even if it was something truthfully exciting the first time around. Such is the nature and definition of “farming”. Unfortunately, this is unavoidable in any mmorpgs simply because at least one person(if not most people) somewhere out there will opt for efficiency rather than variety. So there really won’t be any fix for that matter.

That being said, the CS events were, in my opinion, already the best platform to provide a farming opportunity for players who want to farm.

Firstly, they were located in what was meant to be end game zones.

Secondly, the never-ending tug-of-war battle against the undead provides an appropriate backdrop for the endless and repetitive meta gameplay which farmers opt to do: grind.

Thirdly, the seemingly annoying difficulty of the zone gives some sense of balance to what farming in the zone entails: “you can farm here, but its not as comfortable to walk around as in the other zones”

Fourthly, its far from Lions Arch or any of the cities. Even though the waypoint system allows a convenient way to go there, it still costs more money. Compound that with the fact that most waypoints in CS are usually contested. In comparison, the new farming area is within Divinity Reach itself (wtf!). What Anet could have just done was to remove the Blacklion Traders in CS -or remove even all the waypoints- and that would have sufficed as a balance to the farming nature of the zone.

All in all, I believe that instead of reducing the CS farm events, they should have increased them instead, but provided more penalties for farming in the area like suggested above. Farmers can farm there all they want. In return, that gives Anet the liberty to design new content without catering to the “farming” needs of the farmers.

I presume you had breaks in between of those 15-20 hrs?! If not then no wonder you tired of it. Your last point in 3) I agree with that.

I’ve seen nothing at all of bad language in game. If it happens then it’s up to Anet to do as they see fit.

It’s the players fault to stick with the boring grinds. No one forces you to do grind 24/7. And those Champtrains (outside of pavilion) just show what kind of weird community this game attracted “Endgame is boring !!! But we still farm the same defensless mobs over and over again”

One cool thing about the two week event schedule is they can balance stuff from one release to the next. If we’ve got a heavy farming time right now because of good loot, maybe the next one will have the opposite. Although, easier farming follows the trend that typical MMO’s will have before new stuff is released… which we’re about to see with the new ascended gear and crafting tier.

Nerf Wars 2.
Daily Wars 2.
Champion zerg train Wars 2.
Gtfo stop sniping champions noob Wars 2.

dekou.6012:

The whole loot revision has been weird. DEs are supposed to be the bread and butter of GW2’s PvE, but what do you get for a DE? 1,5 silver and some karma. Even back when Orr DE farming was a thing, people got their stuff from killing mobs during the DE and not completing the DE itself.

I don’t know why they chose to give you loot bags for killing champs instead of giving them for completing the DEs those champs are involved in.

This man knows what’s up. DE was supposed to be the end all of pve farming. But it have abyssmal rewards at lvl 80 with it’s 1s50c reward. Other thing is Anet nerfed the event timers to hell and back in Cursed Shore.

Something’s gone a bit skew-wiff, for sure. I suspect the problem is the bots in the early days. I suspect DR was initially an anti-bot measure, a holding pattern, until they could get to the core of the bot problem. Nowadays, they seem to be on top of the bot problem. So maybe now they could ease off on the DR and up the rewards for DE completion, esp. in Orr. I think it would be a tonic for the game.

The CP shows that Anet are not actually all that averse to people having fun farming, it’s a little gift to farmers. But I think they need to take heed that if they want to liven up the open world, it needs to have similar rewards. They ought to be confident enough about bots to be able to do that now.

If they do that, if they make the game more farm-friendly for players, I think they’re going to have to say good-bye to Legendaries as the notional top gear in the game. I suspect that they’re going to make Ascended more task-based, so that not all players will get it (or maybe they’ll switch it round so that Legendaries are that, and Ascended is more like Legendaries are now, whichever would be fine). Which is as it should be – there has to be ultimate prestige stuff in the game that sheer time or money doesn’t get you, but only player skill, team co-ordination, etc.

Another point: I’ve noticed that developers always underestimate how good some players can be and how quickly some players and guilds, etc., can eat up content. If anything distinguishes Blizzard, it’s that they didn’t do that (at least for a long time), they made the content that gives the ultimate rewards really, really, REALLY hard.

Now, it’s good that Anet have made a base game that anyone can play and enjoy, even a butterfingered player like me. But they have to stop underestimating player skill, and make top end content that makes top end players have to work really hard for their shinies.

This mean, I fear, that they’re going to have to invest resources into better AI, into making dungeons “l;iving” in the same way the world is (so they can’t be “learnt” so easily), etc., etc. It means some hard work for them. But on the other hand, since nobody seems to be interested in the content they initially created (the DE system) but most people are only interested in farming, they’re relieved of the obligation of trying to make rich DEs, so it sort of evens out.

I still really hope that the Champion Loot Bags are here to stay.
Killing one of those kittens in a small Group without any special reward has always been a letdown.

LoneWolfie.1852:

One darn fine day after the respawn timer is changed, some ingenious commanders might go around the entire Tyria map leading a guild zerg to do all the champs.
This can’t be the solution either. DEs has to be more rewarding.

I actually do think that changing the the respawn timer will help a lot.
If a Champion spawns ~three minutes later (and “Random”), “normal” players will hardly recognize it, but the 24/7 FarmingSpot is ruined.

Porting around the entire Tyria map is far less efficient then just running the circle in Frostgorge Sound and will never be that much of a mass phenomenona.

LoneWolfie.1852:

DEs has to be more rewarding.

“What are you doing? The Routation is 1.Bandits at Windmill , 2.Giant Worm 3.Drive the rogue bull back home 4.[Crossing Waypoint], you Kitten! report send!”

Farmers do not own or have priority to events. I just think A-net needs to make it clear that completing events leading to disruption of a champ zerg is not an offence and take action about those who get abusive (either through false reports or verbal abuse) about it.

I don’t join the champ zergs but I think farmers, as well as everyone else, can play how they want but events were made to be completed. If there is a conflict, farming should not take precedence.

At least in the high level zones where I tested this out, I know there are enough champs to complete a full farming circuit even if some were ‘removed from rotation’. It remains to the farmers to 1. not be so greedy, 2. be more flexible and 3. take it as a challenge to find routes that will not be disruptive or disrupted.

Observing Cursed Shore farming on my server, I believe that they actually made some areas of the map more accessible by clearing champs that were on a respawn timer (a champ guarding a skill point for example); perhaps they do everyone a favor if they’d stick to that.

I am amazed that farmers who earn that much gold and especially now, when the waypoint cost has been discounted get so abusive that they have to wp a bit more.

Anet can apply a simple fix for intentionally failed events. The next iteration of events spawns no champions. If farmers want to continue gathering champ loot they have to succeed.
I do enjoy the patch and I do like to run with the zerg at times to grab a little loot. It finally feels like I’m progressing at gathering some mats. However I do disagree with intentional fails to keep spawns coming at faster intervals.

So….. we complained that champs weren’t rewarding enough. So they changed them to have better loot….

Now….people are only farming the champs…..and they should be nerfed to stop it?

Kittened if they do, kittened if they don’t….

I guess DE’s could be a little more rewarding. I mean, I don’t really have issues with their rewards as they are. Generally speaking I make plenty of money and goodies just from playing. Running a dungeon once in a while, keeping up with the LS, etc all provide plenty of loot and gold, and I rarely TP anything. Sure, I don’t have 100s of gold ( I think Im at like 60g), but I’m ok with that.

People wanted a rewards overhaul. They gave it to us… More loot is dropping, champs have dedicated loot bags, a whole list of events now have a once a day guaranteed rare, and yet nobody is happy. People trying to farm get POed at people trying to simply play the game and vice versa. Really simply points out that the issue lies with the players not with Anet. Welcome to society….

You are doing something very wrong if you are only getting 2.5g/hr in drops…

The zerg train I have been running is 7g/hr in pure cash plus any drops you get. Usually works out to be about 10g/hr.

Nothing would need to be nerfed if you were only getting a pathetic 2.5g/hr, there are literally 100 different things you can do in the game to earn that small of an amount.

10g/hr? Thats not that much. I guess these champ trains really don’t give that much after all. Dungeons IMO are still your best bet in getting rich. Best farm dungeon route is CoF path 1&2 , CoE path 1,2,3. HotW path 1 and 2.

Lets not forget all those tokens for completing the dungeons!

The trains will soon be derailed.

I enjoy the champ trains so long as the people remain civil. While I’ve championed my server the last few days, last night was embarrassing, and I hope people got reported if it got much worse after I left.
The gold is nice. It’s not like I’ve heard old CoF1 was, but I’ve made more gold doing the champ train than ever before in GW2.
That being said, gold is nice, but I’m after mats, and T6 mats simply don’t drop much at all.
In that respect the people who have legendaries that are so worried about losing their special snowflake status (even though most of them just slapped a credit card down for their toys) don’t have to worry much. Anet may have changed loot drops to being something of value, but no-one who wants to craft a legendary the traditional way has seen much change worth cheering about.
I suppose you could take all the T5 mats and transmute them in the mystic toilet, but I refuse to do that simply because my RNG luck sucks.
I’ll probably farm until the big nerf, because you need 110gold straight up minimum for items that can only be bought (icy runestones, recipes, and in my case, the precursor).
It’s nice when the zerg breaks the chain and goes and runs an DE chain from start to finish though. Keeps things going.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

10g/hr? Thats not that much. I guess these champ trains really don’t give that much after all. Dungeons IMO are still your best bet in getting rich. Best farm dungeon route is CoF path 1&2 , CoE path 1,2,3. HotW path 1 and 2.

Lets not forget all those tokens for completing the dungeons!

See I don’t see a problem with that (assuming you aren’t exploiting to skip things) since the dungeons take a group, coordination and to complete all those paths quickly, some skill. In addition it is only for 1 run a day, you can’t keep doing it.

Plus gauntlet farming currently dwarfs everything else. Zerker warriors can make close to 20g/hr with no DR.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So….. we complained that champs weren’t rewarding enough. So they changed them to have better loot….

Now….people are only farming the champs…..and they should be nerfed to stop it?

Kittened if they do, kittened if they don’t…..

Yes. Champions should be more rewarding!
I do NOT want ArenaNet to “nerf Champions”.

They should just nerf the Choo Choo ChampTrains.

TamTiTam.9574:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So….. we complained that champs weren’t rewarding enough. So they changed them to have better loot….

Now….people are only farming the champs…..and they should be nerfed to stop it?

Kittened if they do, kittened if they don’t…..

Yes. Champions should be more rewarding!
I do NOT want ArenaNet to “nerf Champions”.

They should just nerf the Choo Choo ChampTrains.

And how precisely do you achieve goal b, without enacting action a?

dekou.6012:

The whole loot revision has been weird. DEs are supposed to be the bread and butter of GW2’s PvE, but what do you get for a DE? 1,5 silver and some karma. Even back when Orr DE farming was a thing, people got their stuff from killing mobs during the DE and not completing the DE itself.

I don’t know why they chose to give you loot bags for killing champs instead of giving them for completing the DEs those champs are involved in.

I’m not sure you get it right.
What you get from DEs is a lot more
than what you get from a single champ
at a time farm.
In fact,on my server the farm train always
stops on events,and I’ve seen increased
DE activity since the new loot system.
Camp defenses/caps,temples,escorts.It’s all
in the play 24/7.I literally have to ditch
some events because I can’t be in two places
at the same time(I’m working on it).
A single DE can spawn in excess of 5
champs,provided there are enough
players to trigger that,so there is a
substantial gain for doing them.
Before the new loot system,high level
areas were dead,and you could hardly finish
any DEs,and now they are packed with players.
I don’t know if Anet will let this as it is,
I surely hope so,and in the meantime
I will enjoy it while it lasts.
The high level zones beast is alive again.
Choo choo.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

10g/hr? Thats not that much. I guess these champ trains really don’t give that much after all. Dungeons IMO are still your best bet in getting rich. Best farm dungeon route is CoF path 1&2 , CoE path 1,2,3. HotW path 1 and 2.

Lets not forget all those tokens for completing the dungeons!

See I don’t see a problem with that (assuming you aren’t exploiting to skip things) since the dungeons take a group, coordination and to complete all those paths quickly, some skill. In addition it is only for 1 run a day, you can’t keep doing it.

Plus gauntlet farming currently dwarfs everything else. Zerker warriors can make close to 20g/hr with no DR.

Guantlet farming is a lie and is not real….. Please lets stay on topic so Anet can focus on this champ train….. and pay no attention to whats happening… err not happening… in the guantlet upstairs….

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

TamTiTam.9574:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So….. we complained that champs weren’t rewarding enough. So they changed them to have better loot….

Now….people are only farming the champs…..and they should be nerfed to stop it?

Kittened if they do, kittened if they don’t…..

Yes. Champions should be more rewarding!
I do NOT want ArenaNet to “nerf Champions”.

They should just nerf the Choo Choo ChampTrains.

And how precisely do you achieve goal b, without enacting action a?

quite easily, randomize spawn timers.

Algreg.3629:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

And how precisely do you achieve goal b, without enacting action a?

quite easily, randomize spawn timers.

I was about to suggest this myself. Although this should be done to a more extreme extent, as in the timers should be anywhere between 15 minutes to 5 hours. That way we wont have champtimers.com and people camping at certain spots.

I seriously don’t get why people want this Champion Farming nerfed into oblivion.

Can’t we have a realiable way of making money in this game?

The FS & CS Champion farming is perfectly legit! People doing this 2 farms are in no way affecting people who CHOOSE not to (besides making a few gold an hour)! Also…the CS farming brought players to an area that was lacking players since the huge “fixes” A-Net has made in the past. It’s easier to find people to do those events now! How is that bad?

I understand the complaints related to glitching & halting progression of an event just for farms sake. I actually despise that (Union waypoint farm & Arah steps Giant farm for example)! But CS & FS Champion trains dont use such shady methods.

Regarding the Queensdale train: i can’t blame the players for zerging these events in hope for good loot! They would not do it if the rewards for doing other activities were good in some way. A-Net overnerfing of anything rewarding has led to this! Blame their bad decisions…not players wanting to make some cash…in a cash driven game!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

TamTiTam.9574:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So….. we complained that champs weren’t rewarding enough. So they changed them to have better loot….

Now….people are only farming the champs…..and they should be nerfed to stop it?

Kittened if they do, kittened if they don’t…..

Yes. Champions should be more rewarding!
I do NOT want ArenaNet to “nerf Champions”.

They should just nerf the Choo Choo ChampTrains.

And how precisely do you achieve goal b, without enacting action a?

1. Make non event champions scale up accordingly when mass zergs attack them.

2. nerf the amount of silver given per a box. (something like 3-5s, maybe /shrug)

If #1 is possible to do, then zergs will no longer blast though champions within seconds, and it will slow down the trains. Combined with #2, it will reduce the amount of pure gold one can make from the champ zerg, but it wont hinder those who just want to go around and kill champs.

At least I think those options are better than forcing players to do other things, by increasing the spawn on champions, or putting a DR on box drops.

TamTiTam.9574:

LoneWolfie.1852:

DEs has to be more rewarding.

“What are you doing? The Routation is 1.Bandits at Windmill , 2.Giant Worm 3.Drive the rogue bull back home 4.[Crossing Waypoint], you Kitten! report send!”

Per unique Dynamic Event success per day. No more rotation, unless you somehow stretch it to last 24 hours. Instead, go out into the world, find events or chains of events, and call them out. Maybe make event locations visible from further away to supplement this.
Then, be sure that it’s reasonable enough of a reward that it’s worth actually going off to find events randomly rather than just focusing on rotations of other things for direct drops from enemies.

Farmers will find the most efficient way to get money. Focus them into making the overall world less quiet and making dynamic events, one of the neatest things about GW2, more fun and worth doing in general.
There are enough events around to keep all but the most hardcore of farmers busy.

dekou.6012:

I don’t know why they chose to give you loot bags for killing champs instead of giving them for completing the DEs those champs are involved in.

This is the obvious way to go.

Rexx.1805:

I seriously don’t get why people want this Champion Farming nerfed into oblivion.

Can’t we have a realiable way of making money in this game?

You’re supposed to be able to make money in GW2 by just playing the game. Farming is there for those who really want it, but the game is supposed to reward people playing through content as they please so that farming isn’t head-and-shoulders better.

Right now, if you want money, it’s champ trains or running a gauntlet over and over again. Roaming around the map completing events you haven’t tried before is exactly the sort of thing GW2 purported to want but do it and you’ll fall way, way behind in gold.

We should be able to make bank by playing the way we want, not just by following a zerg around and tagging champions in a specific sequence for hours and hours at a time.

Good grief

Whinge cause people aren’t killing the champ, now whinge cause people are killing the champ.

Do lots of “only child’s” play gw2?

LoneWolfie.1852:

My 2 coppers.

So… op got what he wanted and now he wants it nerfed, great job…

We don’t need it nerfed, if you don’t like it DON’T DO IT, find something else to do, in game or else where, what we really need is more avenues to get these things not solely champions not solely world bosses, the whole games loot system needs a revamp and i’m not talking time gating..