Guild Wars 2

All Chrono wells were balanced around 66% alacrity, after the nerf to 33% the cooldowns on wells still were not reduced as compensation after all these minor and major patches.

What is even worse is that we were promised by Gaile that she would take a look into the situation (she was even unaware that there was even a problem in the first place, says a lot about communication https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Skill-Changes-Coalescence-of-Ruin-and-Scorched-Earth/first) and then there was no more word after that after receiving notifications and suggestions from her “Thoughts on balance patch” thread.

Taking a look into the situation isn’t a promise of a fix.

I don’t see that as an unintended consequence. The wells were balanced around this actual cooldown and the nerf to alacrity affect them as much as every other profession.

It’s a balance issue, it’s not a bug or anything like that.

What Ayrilana said. Also, taking a look and deciding on how to re-balance a class takes a lot more than several days.

That said, I am adamant in my insistence to receive any kind of recognition from Anet that this is an issue at all. This and the nerf to the spell effects SERIOUSLY and VERY SEVERELY make me question if they do listen to the community. And by “they” I don’t mean people like Gaile. I’m talking about the ones actually making these decisions. It is very telling that after Gaile promised to bring this up to the right people we never got a follow-up. And you guys know she loves to let us know about such things . Instead we get a deafening silence.

TALK TO US! Please!!!

Thaddeus.4891:

I don’t see that as an unintended consequence. The wells were balanced around this actual cooldown and the nerf to alacrity affect them as much as every other profession.

It’s a balance issue, it’s not a bug or anything like that.

So according to your logic every other profession is balanced around alacrity too?

Chrono gets a duration buff to alacrity applied to self so the cooldowns of wells could very well have been balanced with that in mind. At the moment the cooldowns are reasonable though, similar to necromancer wells.

Because anet actually gives a kitten about the state of the game…

Ananeos.4587:

Thaddeus.4891:

I don’t see that as an unintended consequence. The wells were balanced around this actual cooldown and the nerf to alacrity affect them as much as every other profession.

It’s a balance issue, it’s not a bug or anything like that.

So according to your logic every other profession is balanced around alacrity too?

No. I didn’t said that and never remotely talked about that. All i’m saying is that, it’s not because they nerfed alacrity that they necessarily HAVE to reduce the cool down of wells.

Whether or not they decrease the cd of wells is a totally different balance decision.

Alacrity should have been nefed to 50% not 33% it would have feltmore in sync with quickness.

Thaddeus.4891:

Ananeos.4587:

Thaddeus.4891:

I don’t see that as an unintended consequence. The wells were balanced around this actual cooldown and the nerf to alacrity affect them as much as every other profession.

It’s a balance issue, it’s not a bug or anything like that.

So according to your logic every other profession is balanced around alacrity too?

No. I didn’t said that and never remotely talked about that. All i’m saying is that, it’s not because they nerfed alacrity that they necessarily HAVE to reduce the cool down of wells.

Whether or not they decrease the cd of wells is a totally different balance decision.

This has been stated multiple times – either a rework of the wells is in order (because right now most of them see little to no use outside of raids), a damage buff to bring us at least to some extent up to speed (and no, that pathetic buff to scepter hardly applies) or simply make the outgoing alacrity 33% and self-alacrity 66%.

I agree that 66% alacrity was stupidly broken and could be maintained forever as well. But they just went too far with the nerf without giving us anything else.

lioka qiao.8734:

Chrono gets a duration buff to alacrity applied to self so the cooldowns of wells could very well have been balanced with that in mind. At the moment the cooldowns are reasonable though, similar to necromancer wells.

The duration buff is 2 more seconds than eveyone else.

And fyi, necromancer wells aren’t played at all in raids or dungeons, except maybe the aoe blind one, all of which do much more than mesmer wells and are reduced by 20% with a necro trait.

Andulias.9516:

This has been stated multiple times – either a rework of the wells is in order (because right now most of them see little to no use outside of raids), a damage buff to bring us at least to some extent up to speed (and no, that pathetic buff to scepter hardly applies) or simply make the outgoing alacrity 33% and self-alacrity 66%.

I agree that 66% alacrity was stupidly broken and could be maintained forever as well. But they just went too far with the nerf without giving us anything else.

Yep and like I said it’s a balance issue. My point was with the OP. He linked a post from Gaile talking about bugs issues and complain that this is not yet fix. But it’s not a bug issue, it’s a balance issue that will probably be take care of (at least I hope) in the next balance patch.

Thaddeus.4891:

Andulias.9516:

This has been stated multiple times – either a rework of the wells is in order (because right now most of them see little to no use outside of raids), a damage buff to bring us at least to some extent up to speed (and no, that pathetic buff to scepter hardly applies) or simply make the outgoing alacrity 33% and self-alacrity 66%.

I agree that 66% alacrity was stupidly broken and could be maintained forever as well. But they just went too far with the nerf without giving us anything else.

Yep and like I said it’s a balance issue. My point was with the OP. He linked a post from Gaile talking about bugs issues and complain that this is not yet fix. But it’s not a bug issue, it’s a balance issue that will probably be take care of (at least I hope) in the next balance patch.

If Chrono shield 4 and Well of Precognition both got emergency nerfs weeks before the balance patch I expect emergency buffs to wells.

Ananeos.4587:

lioka qiao.8734:

Chrono gets a duration buff to alacrity applied to self so the cooldowns of wells could very well have been balanced with that in mind. At the moment the cooldowns are reasonable though, similar to necromancer wells.

The duration buff is 2 more seconds than eveyone else.

And fyi, necromancer wells aren’t played at all in raids or dungeons, except maybe the aoe blind one, all of which do much more than mesmer wells and are reduced by 20% with a necro trait.

Idk if its just me then, but i always carry around 2 wells on my necromancer in dungeons and raids, then like suffer or the power signet

I’d like to think that well necros are still a thing in WvW even with the reaper spec.

OtterPaws.2036:

Ananeos.4587:

lioka qiao.8734:

Chrono gets a duration buff to alacrity applied to self so the cooldowns of wells could very well have been balanced with that in mind. At the moment the cooldowns are reasonable though, similar to necromancer wells.

The duration buff is 2 more seconds than eveyone else.

And fyi, necromancer wells aren’t played at all in raids or dungeons, except maybe the aoe blind one, all of which do much more than mesmer wells and are reduced by 20% with a necro trait.

Idk if its just me then, but i always carry around 2 wells on my necromancer in dungeons and raids, then like suffer or the power signet

Running around with wells is a significant dps loss. Your survivability goes up though.

Ananeos.4587:

OtterPaws.2036:

Ananeos.4587:

lioka qiao.8734:

Chrono gets a duration buff to alacrity applied to self so the cooldowns of wells could very well have been balanced with that in mind. At the moment the cooldowns are reasonable though, similar to necromancer wells.

The duration buff is 2 more seconds than eveyone else.

And fyi, necromancer wells aren’t played at all in raids or dungeons, except maybe the aoe blind one, all of which do much more than mesmer wells and are reduced by 20% with a necro trait.

Idk if its just me then, but i always carry around 2 wells on my necromancer in dungeons and raids, then like suffer or the power signet

Running around with wells is a significant dps loss. Your survivability goes up though.

What would ya suggest instead? I dont think ive ever not had well of suffering and corruption on my bars

OtterPaws.2036:

Ananeos.4587:

OtterPaws.2036:

Ananeos.4587:

lioka qiao.8734:

Chrono gets a duration buff to alacrity applied to self so the cooldowns of wells could very well have been balanced with that in mind. At the moment the cooldowns are reasonable though, similar to necromancer wells.

The duration buff is 2 more seconds than eveyone else.

And fyi, necromancer wells aren’t played at all in raids or dungeons, except maybe the aoe blind one, all of which do much more than mesmer wells and are reduced by 20% with a necro trait.

Idk if its just me then, but i always carry around 2 wells on my necromancer in dungeons and raids, then like suffer or the power signet

Running around with wells is a significant dps loss. Your survivability goes up though.

What would ya suggest instead? I dont think ive ever not had well of suffering and corruption on my bars

I use blood is power, the power signet and spectral walk for skips, but that’s just my preference.

Ah yes, famous high level analysis between reaper and chrono wells. I mean, you can do this comparison because, clearly, both classes are on similar power levels. That average chrono dps is just overwhelming, imo they should nerf it a bit..actually, i think reaper is way too weak and its dps too small for comparison to hold.

I mean, even assuming you can compare two different classes because their utilities are called the same, reaper is clearly weaker. Necro wells last 5 sec(comparing to 3 sec of mesmer wells) and have shorter casting times, and you can trait wells into giving prot, life-steal and shorter cd.

But think about it, you can trait mesmer wells so they give alacrity! 2 sec of the most OP buff in the galaxy! Cuts out about 0,5 sec from cooldown per well! Incredible! We all know mesmers have 12 utility slots, so its at least 50 sec of alacrity to everyone and their family!
Not only that, but they look stylish, that purple, that clock graphic, pure delight! Every enemy will complement you on your choice of utilities!

As you can clearly see from this very detailed and in-depth comparison, it turns out that actually chrono wells in their current state are overpowered, as well as all related and unrelated skills and traits.

Imo all chrono wells should get recharge time doubled, and decreased mesmer sword dps by 69%. All necro wells should corrupt up to 3 boons per tick to compensate.

Ananeos.4587:

If Chrono shield 4 and Well of Precognition both got emergency nerfs weeks before the balance patch I expect emergency buffs to wells.

That’s debatable, that still doesn’t obligate them to do what you ask. Anet could consider wells to be good how they are now since they are in a good position in PvE and buff the mesmer in another way to make it more on par with other profession for PvP.

Lusteregris.2697:

Ah yes, famous high level analysis between reaper and chrono wells. I mean, you can do this comparison because, clearly, both classes are on similar power levels. That average chrono dps is just overwhelming, imo they should nerf it a bit..actually, i think reaper is way too weak and its dps too small for comparison to hold.

I mean, even assuming you can compare two different classes because their utilities are called the same, reaper is clearly weaker. Necro wells last 5 sec(comparing to 3 sec of mesmer wells) and have shorter casting times, and you can trait wells into giving prot, life-steal and shorter cd.

But think about it, you can trait mesmer wells so they give alacrity! 2 sec of the most OP buff in the galaxy! Cuts out about 0,5 sec from cooldown per well! Incredible! We all know mesmers have 12 utility slots, so its at least 50 sec of alacrity to everyone and their family!
Not only that, but they look stylish, that purple, that clock graphic, pure delight! Every enemy will complement you on your choice of utilities!

As you can clearly see from this very detailed and in-depth comparison, it turns out that actually chrono wells in their current state are overpowered, as well as all related and unrelated skills and traits.

Imo all chrono wells should get recharge time doubled, and decreased mesmer sword dps by 69%. All necro wells should corrupt up to 3 boons per tick to compensate.

All jokes aside, Mesmer does 8-9k dps in a raid in full zerk.

Thaddeus.4891:

Andulias.9516:

This has been stated multiple times – either a rework of the wells is in order (because right now most of them see little to no use outside of raids), a damage buff to bring us at least to some extent up to speed (and no, that pathetic buff to scepter hardly applies) or simply make the outgoing alacrity 33% and self-alacrity 66%.

I agree that 66% alacrity was stupidly broken and could be maintained forever as well. But they just went too far with the nerf without giving us anything else.

Yep and like I said it’s a balance issue. My point was with the OP. He linked a post from Gaile talking about bugs issues and complain that this is not yet fix. But it’s not a bug issue, it’s a balance issue that will probably be take care of (at least I hope) in the next balance patch.

Oh yes, I guess I didn’t make my point clear, I was actually agreeing with you and continuing the discussion.

Lusteregris.2697:

Ah yes, famous high level analysis between reaper and chrono wells. I mean, you can do this comparison because, clearly, both classes are on similar power levels. That average chrono dps is just overwhelming, imo they should nerf it a bit..actually, i think reaper is way too weak and its dps too small for comparison to hold.

I mean, even assuming you can compare two different classes because their utilities are called the same, reaper is clearly weaker. Necro wells last 5 sec(comparing to 3 sec of mesmer wells) and have shorter casting times, and you can trait wells into giving prot, life-steal and shorter cd.

But think about it, you can trait mesmer wells so they give alacrity! 2 sec of the most OP buff in the galaxy! Cuts out about 0,5 sec from cooldown per well! Incredible! We all know mesmers have 12 utility slots, so its at least 50 sec of alacrity to everyone and their family!
Not only that, but they look stylish, that purple, that clock graphic, pure delight! Every enemy will complement you on your choice of utilities!

As you can clearly see from this very detailed and in-depth comparison, it turns out that actually chrono wells in their current state are overpowered, as well as all related and unrelated skills and traits.

Imo all chrono wells should get recharge time doubled, and decreased mesmer sword dps by 69%. All necro wells should corrupt up to 3 boons per tick to compensate.

You gave me a good chuckle. Thanks for that!

Thaddeus.4891:

Ananeos.4587:

If Chrono shield 4 and Well of Precognition both got emergency nerfs weeks before the balance patch I expect emergency buffs to wells.

That’s debatable, that still doesn’t obligate them to do what you ask. Anet could consider wells to be good how they are now since they are in a good position in PvE and buff the mesmer in another way to make it more on par with other profession for PvP.

Well here is an incentive. Chronomancer is currently the WORST elite spec in the game, worse than Berserker. If you aren’t going to play with the wells you are, what, going to make your clones run faster when you shatter them? How is Anet going to pander to 2 character slot f2p players that have mesmer as a main?

This clearly wasn’t a balance patch, even a minor one, so complaining about the lack of balance changes is kind of pointless.

Please don’t attack Gaile by saying things like she “promised” us something. She is our most valuable advocate. I agree I would appreciate a status update such as the dev’s thought these skills are in a good place or some type of feedback. But calling her out like this is a contributing factor to why communication can lack, as the devs feel safer saying nothing.

I was hoping mesmers would at least get a buff to alacrity duration after the nerf. The duration was balanced around 66%. With the reduction to 33% mesmers should have gotten a duration increase to compensate.

Here is what I do not get, Quickness affects everyone and has a 50% buff to it, alacrity affects everyone and had a 66% buff to everyone then got it dropped to 33%.

If its such a balance issue why didnt we see a quickness nerf too since they basically do the same thing (affect the speed of which we can activate skills with, which also enhance our ability to spam skills that are on a shorter cooldown).

All things aside, that is what i want to know most.

sirsquishy.8531:

Here is what I do not get, Quickness affects everyone and has a 50% buff to it, alacrity affects everyone and had a 66% buff to everyone then got it dropped to 33%.

If its such a balance issue why didnt we see a quickness nerf too since they basically do the same thing (affect the speed of which we can activate skills with, which also enhance our ability to spam skills that are on a shorter cooldown).

All things aside, that is what i want to know most.

In case you didn’t know, quickness has been nerfed from 100% to 50% in the past (the same change that alacrity got).

Andraus.3874:

Please don’t attack Gaile by saying things like she “promised” us something. She is our most valuable advocate. I agree I would appreciate a status update such as the dev’s thought these skills are in a good place or some type of feedback. But calling her out like this is a contributing factor to why communication can lack, as the devs feel safer saying nothing.

This right here. It was obviously not a balance patch and I don’t think it should be a quick fix. So don’t sweat it. Just calm down and see what happens when a balance patch hits. I also don’t think decreasing the cool downs on wells is the solution. Chronos can put out roughly the same amount of alacrity they could before. What changed was how powerful alacrity was. Yes, you can say the 66 to 33% alacrity indirectly brought down how much alacrity you could push out a little. But not really, not with illusionary avenger. It was also obviously clear that they had no attention on changing how much alacrity you could pump out. They only cared about how powerful it was. Hopefully they bump alacrity to 50% and do a bunch of more balancing with chrono. This is also a quality of life change, as it makes quickness and alacrity somewhat similar. Quickness for auto attacks and Alacrity for cool down attacks. However, more balance is needed than this. I hope they do more than just make two main changes, to alacrity and well of precog, like they did before. After all, as hinted at before, many classes can put out roughly 3X more dps than a chrono. This severely put them at a disadvantage in WvW and PvP, weather its just finding a competitive build or having a large selections of builds available to play around with.

Azoqu.8917:

sirsquishy.8531:

Here is what I do not get, Quickness affects everyone and has a 50% buff to it, alacrity affects everyone and had a 66% buff to everyone then got it dropped to 33%.

If its such a balance issue why didnt we see a quickness nerf too since they basically do the same thing (affect the speed of which we can activate skills with, which also enhance our ability to spam skills that are on a shorter cooldown).

All things aside, that is what i want to know most.

In case you didn’t know, quickness has been nerfed from 100% to 50% in the past (the same change that alacrity got).

Ya this was the case, but I don’t think that matters, right now a person who has alacrity and quickness that is only using auto attacks with no cool downs gets a 50% boost from quickness and no boost from alacrity. Like wise, a person who is using cool down skills with no activation time get a 33% boost from alacrity and no boost from quickness. Meanwhile, not all classes benefit equally from alacrity, like thieves, and alacrity can’t be given out as sufficient of a way like signet of inspiration (you actually have to catch the wells to get the benefits) I think he is just mainly saying “Why aren’t they balanced equally?” You could say that cool down skills may be more powerful. However, that doesn’t cover than downfalls of alacrity mentioned as well.

Ananeos.4587:

Thaddeus.4891:

Ananeos.4587:

If Chrono shield 4 and Well of Precognition both got emergency nerfs weeks before the balance patch I expect emergency buffs to wells.

That’s debatable, that still doesn’t obligate them to do what you ask. Anet could consider wells to be good how they are now since they are in a good position in PvE and buff the mesmer in another way to make it more on par with other profession for PvP.

Well here is an incentive. Chronomancer is currently the WORST elite spec in the game, worse than Berserker. If you aren’t going to play with the wells you are, what, going to make your clones run faster when you shatter them? How is Anet going to pander to 2 character slot f2p players that have mesmer as a main?

No, absolutely disagree. Despite the nerf, Chronomancer is still the most unique and intersting elite spec that made everyone radically shift their playstyle and shed a new light on the class. That hasn’t changed.

You’re giving arenanet too much credit.

They didn’t design the cooldown of wells, or anything, around alacrity. That’s why they had to nerf alacrity. They were far too short sighted to recognize how game breaking its effect was in a game where cooldowns are the only resource most classes, including the one that provides it.

It’s pretty much textbook Anet lack of foresight in profession and skill balance.

I don’t think mesmer wells need reduced cooldowns, it’s very powerful, it does a ton of damage and provide alacrity and quickness to 4 other people in the party.

PopeUrban.2578:

You’re giving arenanet too much credit.

They didn’t design the cooldown of wells, or anything, around alacrity. That’s why they had to nerf alacrity. They were far too short sighted to recognize how game breaking its effect was in a game where cooldowns are the only resource most classes, including the one that provides it.

It’s pretty much textbook Anet lack of foresight in profession and skill balance.

Let’s see now.
Well of Action: 3 secs slow, 3 seconds quickness, 30 seconds CD
Well of Recall: 3 seconds Chill, 5 seconds alacrity, 40 seconds CD
Well of Precognition: 3 pulses aegis, FORTY FIVE seconds CD

Not balanced around alacrity, sure…

Samnang.1879:

I don’t think mesmer wells need reduced cooldowns, it’s very powerful, it does a ton of damage and provide alacrity and quickness to 4 other people in the party.

• Mesmer wells do not do much damage
• Mesmer does an average of 8-9k on full berserker’s gear while every other class is dealing 27k+.
• Alacrity does not affect Thieves and Revenants whos only role is to upkeep passives and autoattack. Which is also terrible because boon/effect sharing now prioritizes your squad members instead of everyone else that might need the alacrity, so in reality you are giving alacrity to 2 other people.

Andulias.9516:

Ananeos.4587:

Thaddeus.4891:

Ananeos.4587:

If Chrono shield 4 and Well of Precognition both got emergency nerfs weeks before the balance patch I expect emergency buffs to wells.

That’s debatable, that still doesn’t obligate them to do what you ask. Anet could consider wells to be good how they are now since they are in a good position in PvE and buff the mesmer in another way to make it more on par with other profession for PvP.

Well here is an incentive. Chronomancer is currently the WORST elite spec in the game, worse than Berserker. If you aren’t going to play with the wells you are, what, going to make your clones run faster when you shatter them? How is Anet going to pander to 2 character slot f2p players that have mesmer as a main?

No, absolutely disagree. Despite the nerf, Chronomancer is still the most unique and intersting elite spec that made everyone radically shift their playstyle and shed a new light on the class. That hasn’t changed.

You can say how unique and interesting and how much of a radical shift Chronomancer is but it does not change the fact that it is the weakest elite. There are eight other elite specs, choose one and we can compare the math.

Only reason to spec Chrono is for the 25% run speed.

Ananeos.4587:

Andulias.9516:

Ananeos.4587:

Thaddeus.4891:

Ananeos.4587:

If Chrono shield 4 and Well of Precognition both got emergency nerfs weeks before the balance patch I expect emergency buffs to wells.

That’s debatable, that still doesn’t obligate them to do what you ask. Anet could consider wells to be good how they are now since they are in a good position in PvE and buff the mesmer in another way to make it more on par with other profession for PvP.

Well here is an incentive. Chronomancer is currently the WORST elite spec in the game, worse than Berserker. If you aren’t going to play with the wells you are, what, going to make your clones run faster when you shatter them? How is Anet going to pander to 2 character slot f2p players that have mesmer as a main?

No, absolutely disagree. Despite the nerf, Chronomancer is still the most unique and intersting elite spec that made everyone radically shift their playstyle and shed a new light on the class. That hasn’t changed.

You can say how unique and interesting and how much of a radical shift Chronomancer is but it does not change the fact that it is the weakest elite. There are eight other elite specs, choose one and we can compare the math.

Nowhere did anyone claim the power creep from the expansion on any of the classes was justified.

Frankly, more elite specs need aggressive nerfing as well.

Ananeos.4587:

Andulias.9516:

Ananeos.4587:

Thaddeus.4891:

Ananeos.4587:

If Chrono shield 4 and Well of Precognition both got emergency nerfs weeks before the balance patch I expect emergency buffs to wells.

That’s debatable, that still doesn’t obligate them to do what you ask. Anet could consider wells to be good how they are now since they are in a good position in PvE and buff the mesmer in another way to make it more on par with other profession for PvP.

Well here is an incentive. Chronomancer is currently the WORST elite spec in the game, worse than Berserker. If you aren’t going to play with the wells you are, what, going to make your clones run faster when you shatter them? How is Anet going to pander to 2 character slot f2p players that have mesmer as a main?

No, absolutely disagree. Despite the nerf, Chronomancer is still the most unique and intersting elite spec that made everyone radically shift their playstyle and shed a new light on the class. That hasn’t changed.

You can say how unique and interesting and how much of a radical shift Chronomancer is but it does not change the fact that it is the weakest elite. There are eight other elite specs, choose one and we can compare the math.

Weakest how? It added amazing utility to the utility profession. How the hell is that worse to, say, the basically pointless Berzerker ?

Ananeos.4587:

Running around with wells is a significant dps loss. Your survivability goes up though.

sorry what? well of suffering is DPS loss? as you said later on not using it is your preference and sincerely, if you play with zerker gear then you’re definitely not doing enough damage.

Ananeos.4587:

• Mesmer does an average of 8-9k on full berserker’s gear while every other class is dealing 27k+.

i think you’re playing a completely different game, like, it can’t be gw2.

eitherways, as someone that has recently changed from reaper to chrono, i can tell that chrono doesn’t do as much dmg as the reaper, obviously, but i’m pretty sure it’s mainly because they have completely different roles just because chrono can give kittenloads of haste and alacrity.
it’d be stupid to expect a profession that can buff a party’s dps so much be able to do as much as a profession that doesn’t do kitten other than doing dmg.
i have no idea what kind of a gamebreaking kitten chrono have been before the nerf but i’m sure it’s doing relatively fine atm and personally wouldn’t go back to reaper anytime soon.

Ayrilana.1396:

Taking a look into the situation isn’t a promise of a fix.

Also it means it’s in the priority queue. If it’s rated minor~trivial, then it could be months or years before a dev has time to worry about Chrono balance.

@Mirtis
These numbers are from recent raid attempts with dps meter. With all ‘haste and alacrity’ attached. Im doing more damage solo afk on my ele pressing 1 button.

Chrono was completly fine with previous iteration of Alacrity. With their extremly low dps, they frikkin need it. What may been broken, and i dont deny it, was alacrity on other classes. Why?

Because other dps classes are frikkin power creeped to skies and beyond. Chrono amplifies damage. If some class is doing broken damage, it will do broken damage++ with chrono, surprise! And you dont bring to raids anything else than the most broken, OP crap thats currently avaliable.

Imo, the best way to deal with it would be to give all other classes mesmer treatment. Cut all those stupid amounts of damage. Either that, or apply power creep to chrono as well, add something stupid like +80% damage across all their damage abilities. But if we keep over buffing everything we may run out of health for enemies before the next expansion.

Correct me if i’m wrong, the mesmers crying here expect to have nearly 100% alacrity uptime specially with 2x phantasms from shield AND buff everyone else AND deal massive amounts of damage?
you know you could always try using other phantasms and other utility spells, right?

btw, DPS meter is surely official and reliable and people care about dmg output only. would be fun to see druids whine about not doing so-claimed 27k+ DPS while healing.

Mirtis.6847:

Correct me if i’m wrong, the mesmers crying here expect to have nearly 100% alacrity uptime specially with 2x phantasms from shield AND buff everyone else AND deal massive amounts of damage?
you know you could always try using other phantasms and other utility spells, right?

btw, DPS meter is surely official and reliable and people care about dmg output only. would be fun to see druids whine about not doing so-claimed 27k+ DPS while healing.

That’s not what mesmers want at all. What mesmers want is to having something no other class can do that will make them wanted and more than just a veil or portal Bot, be it DPS, utility, survivability, whatever. It’s the exact same position us necromancers were in before reaper came along and got buffs out the wazoo.

Now I do agree alclarity and quickness are incredibly powerful buffs that need to be monitored carefully. But Anet’s carpet bomb of a nerf to the chronomancer profession did nothing to fix core Mesmer issues that bleed over into the Chronomancer Elite specialization.

To visualize it, ANET chopped off the Top of the weed but didn’t fix the root.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Mirtis.6847:

Correct me if i’m wrong, the mesmers crying here expect to have nearly 100% alacrity uptime specially with 2x phantasms from shield AND buff everyone else AND deal massive amounts of damage?
you know you could always try using other phantasms and other utility spells, right?

btw, DPS meter is surely official and reliable and people care about dmg output only. would be fun to see druids whine about not doing so-claimed 27k+ DPS while healing.

That’s not what mesmers want at all. What mesmers want is to having something no other class can do that will make them wanted and more than just a veil or portal Bot, be it DPS, utility, survivability, whatever. It’s the exact same position us necromancers were in before reaper came along and got buffs out the wazoo.

Now I do agree alclarity and quickness are incredibly powerful buffs that need to be monitored carefully. But Anet’s carpet bomb of a nerf to the chronomancer profession did nothing to fix core Mesmer issues that bleed over into the Chronomancer Elite specialization.

To visualize it, ANET chopped off the Top of the weed but didn’t fix the root.

who exactly doesn’t want a normal chrono in their raid?
mesmers were in the same exact position as necro before, but not chronomancers. besides, while reaper can do great dmg now, it’s just as good as a PS warrior/berserker, obviously anyone would prefer a PS warrior over a zerker reaper.
when it comes to chrono tho….again…who wouldn’t want a chrono in dungeon or raids?
i mean:
“oh hey there’s a chrono in LFG for where we’re headed "
" HELL NO, who would want haste and alacrity "
eh?

Its not just about pve, its also about all aspects of the game. In order to give a class powerful effects like alacrity and quickness, of course their dps has to be much lower than the other classes. However, you still need to find a way to make sure they have a variety of viable builds for other aspects of the game, like pvp. This is where other aspects matter.

Ananeos.4587:

Let’s see now.
Well of Action: 3 secs slow, 3 seconds quickness, 30 seconds CD
Well of Recall: 3 seconds Chill, 5 seconds alacrity, 40 seconds CD
Well of Precognition: 3 pulses aegis, FORTY FIVE seconds CD

Not balanced around alacrity, sure…

You do know that Guardians would kill for what Well of Precognition is right? It’s retreat on roids.

I think everyone agrees that alacrity was overpowered as a group buff and perhaps also for the mesmer individually. The question is: were other aspects of chronomancer originally tuned (damage & cooldowns) assuming lots of alacrity? If so, then it would reasonable to retune them.

Azoqu.8917:

You do know that Guardians would kill for what Well of Precognition is right? It’s retreat on roids.

How is that relevant to whether there’s a problem with how well (or poorly) chronomancer is balanced relative to other classes? One decent skill does not make for a great elite (plus pulsing aegis is lackluster for a squish class, so a lot of people are arguing it’s not even a decent skill any longer…for memsers).

I think everyone agrees that chronos are a lot weaker than they were before this nerf; what I’d like to see if ANet commenting about whether they think mesmers are in a good place now for PvE & WvW (not just in PvP) — I’m reserving judgment until we see if they comment.

Azoqu.8917:

Ananeos.4587:

Let’s see now.
Well of Action: 3 secs slow, 3 seconds quickness, 30 seconds CD
Well of Recall: 3 seconds Chill, 5 seconds alacrity, 40 seconds CD
Well of Precognition: 3 pulses aegis, FORTY FIVE seconds CD

Not balanced around alacrity, sure…

You do know that Guardians would kill for what Well of Precognition is right? It’s retreat on roids.

Mesmer is not a Guardian. Additionally retreat is supposed to be used for RETREATING, as it gives quickness and you don’t have to stand in a tiny pink circle 3/4ths the size of a pvp capture point.

The best thing about Chrono was the frequency in which it could use skills, and was part of the primary problem core mes suffered from that’s a major reason why it was so appealing over core.

If you want to roll a mesmer to do damage this means you are devoting yourself to a spec that has to blow a ton of cooldowns setting up damage that ultimetly nets less DPS than any other damage spec, and is about as easy to avoid as 100b, all while having more steps to foil. Let’s also not forget that mesmers spend a lot of the same resources for offense as they do defense so a whiff is much more crippling compared to other specs.

There was no issue sacrificing a line of passive survivability or passive damage, for moderate boost to active defense, and moderate boost to active damage in the form of frequency.

“Heart of Thorns has seen many a chronomancer survive a killing blow and seize victory.” – Why is this a problem for mesmer to have? When Thief has historically done exactly this? (who btw doesn’t need line of sight to burst, and their “set up” is going invisible, and have more damage mitigation cooldowns when you account for initiative) Along with every iteration of bruiser Ele since old valk ammy, Engie in the current meta and old hgh in the past, Medi Guard if not team focused, among other professions and corresponding specs including rev?

Sure, Yes. BunkChrono was OP in PvP and did need a nerf. However every other mes spec did not need to suffer along with it, a good chunk of the changes in the recent patch were more than enough to tone it down without the change to alacrity. Also some of those changes would have worked in line with a-nets “surviving a killing blow thing”.

But Ok let’s say alacrity is to powerful in PvE Simple fix to that is to make 33% outgoing and 66% personal, mes keeps it’s kitten dps but at least can provide support consistently.

A-nets justification for the nerf was 66% more dps right? Well correct me if I am wrong but was this not empirically disproven?

Sounds to me like alacrity got nerfed for very little justifiable reason other than someone at a-net couldn’t down a non chronobunker mesmer and set out to nerf it to hell. Or just flat out couldn’t touch a chronobunker and decided to treat the patients cancer by killing the patent.

As per the Topic: No I did not expect A-net to make any changes as this was not a balance patch. But this mistake for one should never have been made, and I understand the frustration of the OP because this should have been hot fixed with the way current mesmer is. If there is an objective issue with the frequency of shield block and well of precog, their cooldowns just need to be nerfed to compensate for alacrity.

Daishi.6027:

The best thing about Chrono was the frequency in which it could use skills, and was part of the primary problem core mes suffered from that’s a major reason why it was so appealing over core.

If you want to roll a mesmer to do damage this means you are devoting yourself to a spec that has to blow a ton of cooldowns setting up damage that ultimetly nets less DPS than any other damage spec, and is about as easy to avoid as 100b, all while having more steps to foil. Let’s also not forget that mesmers spend a lot of the same resources for offense as they do defense so a whiff is much more crippling compared to other specs.

There was no issue sacrificing a line of passive survivability or passive damage, for moderate boost to active defense, and moderate boost to active damage in the form of frequency.

“Heart of Thorns has seen many a chronomancer survive a killing blow and seize victory.” – Why is this a problem for mesmer to have? When Thief has historically done exactly this? (who btw doesn’t need line of sight to burst, and their “set up” is going invisible, and have more damage mitigation cooldowns when you account for initiative) Along with every iteration of bruiser Ele since old valk ammy, Engie in the current meta and old hgh in the past, Medi Guard if not team focused, among other professions and corresponding specs including rev?

Sure, Yes. BunkChrono was OP in PvP and did need a nerf. However every other mes spec did not need to suffer along with it, a good chunk of the changes in the recent patch were more than enough to tone it down without the change to alacrity. Also some of those changes would have worked in line with a-nets “surviving a killing blow thing”.

But Ok let’s say alacrity is to powerful in PvE Simple fix to that is to make 33% outgoing and 66% personal, mes keeps it’s kitten dps but at least can provide support consistently.

A-nets justification for the nerf was 66% more dps right? Well correct me if I am wrong but was this not empirically disproven?

Sounds to me like alacrity got nerfed for very little justifiable reason other than someone at a-net couldn’t down a non chronobunker mesmer and set out to nerf it to hell. Or just flat out couldn’t touch a chronobunker and decided to treat the patients cancer by killing the patent.

As per the Topic: No I did not expect A-net to make any changes as this was not a balance patch. But this mistake for one should never have been made, and I understand the frustration of the OP because this should have been hot fixed with the way current mesmer is. If there is an objective issue with the frequency of shield block and well of precog, their cooldowns just need to be nerfed to compensate for alacrity.

Anet’s justification for the nerf is that they wanted 2 or more Mesmers in the raid instead of just one spitting out boons (look how that turned out) and went as far as to say that two Mesmers would provide the 66% alacrity for the raid instead of the usual 33%, which is a complete lie.