Guild Wars 2

Seems like cities are way too confusing with too many levels.

Had a really hard time running around, finding things.

Maybe the cities should have just two levels max or simply flat.

Learning your away round cities is actually part of the game. Finding waypoints, points of interest and vistas.

Sure it takes time. Ever go to a city in real life? It takes time to learn your way around there too. Larger cities, for a lot of people, make the world feel more like a world and less like a game.

For roleplayers, of course, it gives them lots of places to play.

Many people love having big, windy cities to explore.

Vayne said it.

The reason all Tyria’s cities are so large is because simple, small cities don’t seem real. When I played WoW, I always wished there was more to Stowrmwind City because I loved it there, but I was constantly reminded of it’s limitations when roleplaying. Divinity’s reach (and the others) has so many places to explore, so many little details that would go unnoticed if you flew by but make the city seem alive. It’s a really great thing.

If you’re finding it hard to navigate, take advantage of the symbols on your map. It tells you where everything is. Eventually you’ll get used to it.

i agree the groove is a mess. the rest of the cities are not bad

divinity reach is the most well layout city

Cities are way too empty, that’s my issue.. Of course except for LA.
Why build so huge cities when no one ever goes there.

Any of them become easy to navigate and familiar if you spend some time there. And if you dont spend time there, why care about the map design there?. I really like the diversity and size of the cities (considering you can wp anywhere in them anytime, i think bigger is better).

I agree that the heavy focus on LA should be changed towards providing interesting reasons to visit the other cities.

loseridoit.2756:

i agree the groove is a mess. the rest of the cities are not bad

divinity reach is the most well layout city

I hate Divinity’s Reach! Why aren’t the trading posts near the crafting guilds? Why are the crafting guilds spread across the whole city!?

Rata Sum is the easiest and best laid out. Everything you need is on the 2nd floor. The top floor is where you enter/exit and has the gates and general stuff like cultural vendors. The bottom is for exploring. Simple!

And Black Citadel is bleh. Holbrek? Don’t think anyone cares…I don’t even think I spelled it right

Nick.6972:

Cities are way too empty, that’s my issue.. Of course except for LA.
Why build so huge cities when no one ever goes there.

As time goes on, things will be added to cities to make them more crowded. Some people don’t like SAB, but it had the effect of bringing a whole crowd to Rata Sum. On days when Keg Brawl is in the daily, Hoelbrak gets busier.

As time goes on and more things are added to cities (bar room brawl, shooting gallery) more people will go there.

Right now, there’s not a whole lot of reason to go to them…which is a shame…but it’ll happen as time goes on.

I have no problems remembering area layout and the like, in games.

In real life I’m certain I’d get lost.

yeah like many have said, they are just bigger then their most mmo cities. They are really easy later on; just have to get used to running around. Any complaints of getting around are moot because you can use the WP to get around free in cities. There are many other little reasons, like map completion etc. Some are a lil more a pain then others; but easy also after used to them.

They are big, and full of details, and.. no reason to ever look at anything twice save the craft stations and banker/trader.

So much wasted opportunity. So many meaningless NPCs.

I get that Anet thinks they needed to totally abandon anything but the DE, but, these huge detail and NPC filled cities are crying for a few exploration, fetch, and information questlines, if only to encourage people to find all of the neat stuff created by the Art people.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

They are big, and full of details, and.. no reason to ever look at anything twice save the craft stations and banker/trader.

So much wasted opportunity. So many meaningless NPCs.

I get that Anet thinks they needed to totally abandon anything but the DE, but, these huge detail and NPC filled cities are crying for a few exploration, fetch, and information questlines, if only to encourage people to find all of the neat stuff created by the Art people.

Whether or not the cities are “wasted opportunity” really depends on what they were designed to be.
They certainly would be failures if ArenaNet meant for people to concistently visit them.
But perhaps they were just designed to be places to explore, give you decent places to roleplay, or simply to make the world feel more alive from an aesthetic point of view.

But either way it is a design philosophy that I never really understood. Lion’s Arch is no different than any of the other cities, so why is it designed to be the main city? Why not have all of those features available in all majore cities so people have the option to choose where to go to, rater than being forced to be in one specific location.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

They are big, and full of details, and.. no reason to ever look at anything twice save the craft stations and banker/trader.

So much wasted opportunity. So many meaningless NPCs.

I get that Anet thinks they needed to totally abandon anything but the DE, but, these huge detail and NPC filled cities are crying for a few exploration, fetch, and information questlines, if only to encourage people to find all of the neat stuff created by the Art people.

Whether or not the cities are “wasted opportunity” really depends on what they were designed to be.
They certainly would be failures if ArenaNet meant for people to concistently visit them.
But perhaps they were just designed to be places to explore, give you decent places to roleplay, or simply to make the world feel more alive from an aesthetic point of view.

But either way it is a design philosophy that I never really understood. Lion’s Arch is no different than any of the other cities, so why is it designed to be the main city? Why not have all of those features available in all majore cities so people have the option to choose where to go to, rater than being forced to be in one specific location.

Lion’s Arch was designed to be the central city for lore reasons. It’s the first place in your personal story where all the races come together. It’s not owned by any race, but rather a melting pot of all races.

Your racial city is really only used, for the most part, for early personal stories and your home instance.

There are some advantages in having everyone in on hub. If you had Lion’s Arch and five starting places, you’d have to divide the player base in six, and none of the cities would likely feel very crowded.

Anyway, this happens in every game. Even if the game doesn’t do it, the players will. In Guild Wars 2, Kamadan became the main market city and pretty much everyone went there to buy and sell.

Believe me, no one really went to Kamadan for convenience. It offered the same stuff as all the other cities.

Mini map has a way to see the level of the city you are on and that helps greatly to get around.

After you’ve been there, it gets much easier to navigate because you won’t hit but maybe one or two way points in any city with occasionally going out of your typical way when a event like the Super Adventure Box comes around or you need something specific from a particular area like culture armor and even then you won’t go there very frequently after you’ve gotten what you want.

I have the same problem in each game I play until I’m familiar with the environment and navigation tools.

I would love to see Divinity’s Reach be more involved!

My first character was a human, and I thought the city was large, beautiful, and complex.

Cities could be a major hub in this game (as they are in most games), but they’re simply not needed. Other games require you to go to a bank to use the bank. Some only have merchants in cities, or require you to go to a city to acquire goods. In other games, players sell items in cities, as they are a safe haven. None of these things apply to GW2.

Don’t get me wrong: the convenience in this game is wonderful.

But the ability to use the TP from anywhere, lack of player-to-player trade, using crafting stations as banks, the ‘deposit collectables’, random NPCs willing to buy all your junk, WP based travel, gw2lfg, and convenience BL Access items on top of it all make cities mostly pointless in Guild Wars 2.

There’s just no need for a hub. Cities are hubs because they serve the purpose of being a meeting location and service provider. Neither is needed.

By no means is any of this a complaint. Some of the aforementioned features are things I enjoy. Others, I could take or leave. However, all of that together really ensures that cities are only truly crowded when a specific event is designed for them.

Hopefully, there will be way to make the cities more populated (and thus like an actual city) in the future! Player housing, anyone? =))

ImoenShan.1920:

Seems like cities are way too confusing with too many levels.

Had a really hard time running around, finding things.

Maybe the cities should have just two levels max or simply flat.

I disagree with the idea that cities should be flat or only have two levels. I like the complexity in this game. It doesn’t limit Anet ability it add new content to them in the future.

I like that the cities are big and confusing. As other people have said it makes them more realistic. The fact that they’re all so different and the architecture in all but Divinities Reach seems completely alien to me makes them really feel like the homes of different races rather than 5 slight variations on humans.

I actually laughed when I first found an NPC in the grove who said many visitors don’t even notice the sylvari houses at first because they tend to blend in to their surroundings. I had literally just been thinking that there didn’t seem to be any actual houses when he said that, but after a while I worked it out and realise there are a lot of them.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

They are big, and full of details, and.. no reason to ever look at anything twice save the craft stations and banker/trader.

So much wasted opportunity. So many meaningless NPCs.

I get that Anet thinks they needed to totally abandon anything but the DE, but, these huge detail and NPC filled cities are crying for a few exploration, fetch, and information questlines, if only to encourage people to find all of the neat stuff created by the Art people.

If you’re interesting in exploring and discovering the lore there is a lot of reason to revisit all the cities. A lot of NPCs will give different responses or dialogue options depending on the race of your character, what Order they’re part of an even your biography choices (like what legion your charr is part of).

Especially if you’re in the Order of Whispers. A surprising number of NPCs in all kinds of places and positions are members and will give you extra information when you find them. One of the first things I did when I found out was to re-visit the cities to find all the agents.

Once again, I have to shake my head at what people will complain about. Do you not want any challenge or sense of adventure? Honestly, the cities are not that confusing. Sometimes I feel sorry for the devs because so many players simply want to be able to sleepwalk through their game. The thing is, there’s no pressure, no race to finish first (unless you care about leaderboards, which are ridiculous), just explore and have fun!

I love the cities. Actually Divnity’s Reach is my least favorite because it seems so organized.

My biggest issue with the cities is the fact that there is no real reason to go there. Need some mini games, some missions, even dynamic events in the cities themselves. I feel as though they are wasted.

Yes, I’m sure ANet is gonna neuter all their cities and throw out all that work just so you don’t get confused.

It’s all about approach I guess. If all you look at the cities for is map completion or selling your stuff, they’re not particularly efficient. If you like an environment with a heart and soul, the cities are pretty cool. It’s not for everybody, but personally I’ve started exploring the cities more thoroughly and climbing my way into nooks and crannies, talking to named NPCs. There’s actually a lot to find! A lot of little environmental Easter eggs and funny dialogue.

It would be good that the cities share the same discussion channel. The probleme is that when you are in races capital, they feel empty because people don’t talk so muche here. In LA, they talk a lot. If we have the same channel in every cities, they will feel busiers, and we would not feel the need to go to LA for not being alone.

Sorry for mmy bad english, i’m not native. I hope you understand me

Ledha.9640:

It would be good that the cities share the same discussion channel.

When they did this too WoW, it just added a whole new level of annoying spam…

So they splintered it off to a trade channel, and city chat got better, But then they merged it and made trade the default anytime in a city.

There’s really no need for it either.

If you want to make a given city more active, start regularly dropping your guild buff banners (the ones the public can use) in a central spot in that city. People will get the message and a social hub will form.

I see two problems with merging map chat:

1) Fractals spam. It’s bad enough seeing an endless list of ‘lfm ftom 19’ in LA, I would not want it in all the other cities as well.

2) Directions. A lot of people use map chat to ask for directions. They will not suddenly remember to specify what city they’re in, so instead of asking a question and getting an answer they’ll get 5-6 completely different and completely contradictory answers from people who have also forgotten that they may not be on the same map.

Doesn’t seem worth it to let people have stupid conversations with a wider audience. That’s what guild chat is for.

Kichwas.7152:

Ledha.9640:

It would be good that the cities share the same discussion channel.

When they did this too WoW, it just added a whole new level of annoying spam…

So they splintered it off to a trade channel, and city chat got better, But then they merged it and made trade the default anytime in a city.

Considering there’s not much direct trading in GW2, that probably wouldn’t be a problem. But they should add an lfg channel or tool (yeah I know they’re working on it) before.

Iruwen.3164:

Considering there’s not much direct trading in GW2, that probably wouldn’t be a problem. But they should add an lfg channel or tool (yeah I know they’re working on it) before.

Its not the discussion of trade that ruins it for WoW. No one uses the trade channel for trade. They use it to make racist and / or homophobic jokes, argue about what guild is more epic, or engage in middle-school level humor…

The wider you make a channel, the more you open it up to pointless jibber-jabber and ‘chat griefing.’

GW2 is much more restrictive when it comes to that though, at least when I stopped playing WoW you could write almost everything in chat that would get you a ban in GW2.

Iruwen.3164:

GW2 is much more restrictive when it comes to that though, at least when I stopped playing WoW you could write almost everything in chat that would get you a ban in GW2.

Blizzard refuses to ban people in WoW because of the subscription fee. If they banned players they would make less money.
Some people in WoW have deliberatly been trying to see how far they can go without getting a ban, and nothing has happened to them. Wintraders, exploiters, hackers, bots etc. Nothing will happen to them, cus even though they ruin the game for other people, they still pay a subscription fee. I even remember some people spamming the general chat saying that the kids who were shot at a school(I can’t remember the date or the school) deserved it, and nothing happened to those people. Even though there were big threads on the WoW forums about it Blizzard did nothing, just like they ignore everything else as long as they get their money.

You don’t pay a subscription fee for GWII, so ArenaNet wants to keep their product as “clean” as possible. Cheaters, exploiters and likewise will be banned because they ruin the game for other people.

And that’s how it should be, even if there was a subscription fee. No company should be so greedy that they will allow cheating or cyber-bullying.

I just wish capital cities were part of the same map chat so you didn’t have to stay in LA to talk :p

And I’ve never had anything I’ve attempted to type be restricted (beyond when repeatedly lfg) so maybe you should stop being so vulgar.

When i first got the game, wow I thought cities were purposely designed to be a maze

emikochan.8504:

I just wish capital cities were part of the same map chat so you didn’t have to stay in LA to talk :p

And I’ve never had anything I’ve attempted to type be restricted (beyond when repeatedly lfg) so maybe you should stop being so vulgar.

There is a chat filter in the options menu which every player can set to maximum, normal or off. I couldn’t tell you what words it filters out because I turned it off on the first day but I assume it’s similar to the forums filter.

But other than that things you say won’t be blocked, if someone has the filter off you can say anything you like and they will see it exactly as it’s typed. But if they report you for verbal abuse (which is an option) you can get suspended or even banned – depending on if it’s a first offence and how bad it was.

I agree with the OP. Kudos for Anet for the amazing graphics and level design and all, but the cities are just too huge and therefore have a huge impact on processor and GPU load. In LA it usually takes over 5 minutes before I see any players or NPC’s (culling), and the framerate is just awfull. I think if LA, or BC etc. would be half the size they are now it would solve a lot of peoples framerate and culling issues.

I love the Cities; loved exploring the Reach and looking in every building, seeing the beautiful artwork, easter egg pictures on random walls, and just listening to and talking with random people.

My next favorite was the Black Citadel which is just dripping with atmosphere; it is hot and sweltering and nobody has time for you. This is a Charr city and you couldn’t mistake it for anything else.

Then Hoelbrak, with its lodges full of boasting Norn and sense of history that flows around it; you can almost hear them telling the stories of their ancestors in the great halls. (and sometimes you literally can)

Rata Sum is fun Asura architecture. The city is laid out pretty well, even though it looks confusing, and you can really learn a lot about Asura culture if you explore its corners, listen to its dialogue, read its signs.

Now, The Grove is really my least favorite city … but that’s because it isn’t really a city, is it? For what it’s supposed to be it’s a nifty enough place, but not really my cup of tea.

Of course we can’t mention cities without Lion’s Arch. The pirate city just looks amazing and is so filled with little explorable corners and secrets that it can keep you busy for a good long while. I spent so much time in the original city that it’s fun to see its successor – and the ruins of what it replaced.

The stronghold of Ebonhawke is pretty cool for a city that you just end up stumbling on if you didn’t know it was there. It has a Vista, some skill points and a couple events – including a chained event – to get you excited about it. Since I didn’t know it was there, I got pretty excited when I found the city and wish more people rped in the area.

So, yeah, if anything I want more cities to explore – or better yet, more to do in the ones we have. (Seriously, we have a chained event in Ebonhawke and holiday events in the Arch, but nothing else in the racial cities – except for keg brawling in Hoelbrak which is fun even if I’m horrible at it.)

I love the Grove. That and Rata Sum are my two favorite cities and I started with a Norn. The Black Citadel and Divinity’s Reach can be a bit confusing. Lion’s Arch is annoying due to it’s size. Hoelbrak is just annoying if you are crafting and are running from there to the BLTC to pick up supplies.

No city is confusing if take the time to learn your way around it.

What I don’t understand is why don’t they have dynamic events in the cities?

Would help populate them and give people things to do. Then NPCs could react differently depending on how the city was doing

Could have simple things from deliveries up to a full on invasion if no one tends the city.

Sort of like at ebonhawk with the separatists but on a bigger and more dynamic scale.

CMF.5461:

What I don’t understand is why don’t they have dynamic events in the cities?

Because they have to make a temporary Halloween event, then a temporary Karka event, then a temporary Wintersday event and now a much too long Flame&Frost event that drags on for AGES in areas that are already chock full with normal events.

Right, don´t forget Guild events and the already mentioned coming Pay2Play Arena.

There´s simply more important stuff to do than flesh out the part that´s basically most important to the first impression of the game.

And to the OP, jeez dude. Live dangerously, try exploring.

Like most players, most of my “city time” is spent in LA. However, I prefer Rata Sum for the fact that the bank & TP are right next to each other, and the crafting areas are close. The Grove and DR have TPs & banks that are near each other, but the crafting stations aren’t conveniently located.

I prefer Rata Sum for functionality, but Divinity’s Reach is by far the nicest city. The Grove has great beauty, but DR is an epic sweeping city that you can actually picture lots of humans living in. I can’t wait till Anet adds some city fun. Pub brawls and that musical machine and polymock, etc.

emikochan.8504:

I just wish capital cities were part of the same map chat so you didn’t have to stay in LA to talk :p

It is an interesting idea, but maybe a separate chat tag like /citytalk would be better.
That being sai,d chat in LA can already be pretty busy, so I don’t know if it would be so great to extend it even more…

I refuse to visit the charr city except to get the map completion and then if I’m on my way into Ascalon. TERRIBLE design. It also doesn’t help that the map isn’t split into levels, even though the city has 3 levels.

ImoenShan.1920:

Seems like cities are way too confusing with too many levels.

Had a really hard time running around, finding things.

Maybe the cities should have just two levels max or simply flat.

Most are fine, Charr-town or whatever is complete garbage. I STILL have to complete that stupid city.

Seras.5702:

Like most players, most of my “city time” is spent in LA. However, I prefer Rata Sum for the fact that the bank & TP are right next to each other, and the crafting areas are close. The Grove and DR have TPs & banks that are near each other, but the crafting stations aren’t conveniently located.

I prefer Rata Sum for functionality, but Divinity’s Reach is by far the nicest city. The Grove has great beauty, but DR is an epic sweeping city that you can actually picture lots of humans living in. I can’t wait till Anet adds some city fun. Pub brawls and that musical machine and polymock, etc.

I disagree about The Grove, crafting stations are just as far as Rata Sum but they are all in one place as oppose to three. Yes the organic nature of the Grove does play havoc with the framerate on lower powered systems but it’s not like it matters much in a city.

Nick.6972:

Cities are way too empty, that’s my issue.. Of course except for LA.
Why build so huge cities when no one ever goes there.

Come to Tarnished Coast. These cities are RPer Paradise.

CMF.5461:

What I don’t understand is why don’t they have dynamic events in the cities?

Would help populate them and give people things to do. Then NPCs could react differently depending on how the city was doing

Could have simple things from deliveries up to a full on invasion if no one tends the city.

Sort of like at ebonhawk with the separatists but on a bigger and more dynamic scale.

The cities were specifically designed to not include Combat Events to give players a safe place to hang out. You can host your guild meeting or RP event, mess around in the Trading Post or the Bank, or just plain stand around AFK in a city without worrying that the Inquest will suddenly climb out of a hole in the wall and start planting bombs.

I do think there should be a little more going on, but I think Dynamic Events would be tricky. The real concern is that they’d adjust difficulty for nearby players when most of those players are there for something else, and the people who do want to participate would get hosed. This already happens near popular RP hotspots on TC. The couple Escort missions that pass near the Hunting Lodge in Queensdale are the worst example. I’ve been swarmed by 20+ Skritt in a wave while effectively “soloing” those events, because nearby RPers were being tagged as participants.

Purely opt-in minigames are a better bet, and I think each city should have at least a couple.