Guild Wars 2

yolo swaggins.2570:

Cut the victimization. You guys are trying to bar players from content for your own gain and in that sense you are wrong for doing so. Regardless of what you do to help, it doesn’t change the fact that nobody should deny a paying customer from content. And flaming people who exert that privilege only makes it worse. That is the toxicity that starts the cycle.

Now, you might not throw insults and be a complete kitten to players but you are not the other 49+ people. It is almost guaranteed to see people start cussing when players want to finish and it is usually the farmers who start.

i payed for this game, so did the 50 others who ,for them, farming IS the content. your arguement is based solely on the fact that your idea of game progress aligns more closely to the one finishing for LS, rather than the ones farming, whose progress is gold/items they need to get what they want from the game. People don’t understand that progress is different for everyone, and by refusing to let us help them they are barring 50 players from the content that THEY payed for. its usually the farmers that start it? please. maybe 5% of the farmers are toxic at most, its probably about 75% of the players looking for LS that are toxic.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

weston.3457:

to everyone who has ever said that “events werent designed to be failed” go defend nebo terrace, tell me how it works out for you…

Failing because you don’t have the numbers and or tactics to successfully complete an event is entirely different from failing intentionally for loot.

its not about numbers or tactics, ANet put events in the game that you CAN NOT complete, so saying events werent designed to be failed is an invalid arguement.

Aicus.3174:

How is actively seeking out events to complete them wrong? I have been doing that thing since the game launched and before Coiled Watch is even on the fail train’s schedule.

And by malicious intent, you mean the intent to see an event succeed?

If this is not toxic I don’t know what is.

the problem isnt that he was completing events, the problem is that he KNEW players were failing this event for a specific purpose, and he completed it, not because he wanted to complete it, but because he wanted to purposely disrupt and diminish the gameplay of dozens of other players, then go find another instance and do it again. he was not completing for the sake of completion, he was completing for the sake of trolling. hence, malicious intent.

Both sides have the right to play the game they want to play it. It’s when people call others out or actively berate/degrade people in map chat/whispers that they cross the line.

I said it earlier and it still applies – simply report/ignore the people who feel they have to tell you how to play (on either side) in hateful ways and keep playing how you want to play.

If others can’t deal with it, then that is their problem and it is their responsibility to find a solution (eg, let them be the ones looking for another map).

Outside of that, it will be up to Anet to fix the underlying cause of the issue – which Im sure they eventually will.

weston.3457:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Cut the victimization. You guys are trying to bar players from content for your own gain and in that sense you are wrong for doing so. Regardless of what you do to help, it doesn’t change the fact that nobody should deny a paying customer from content. And flaming people who exert that privilege only makes it worse. That is the toxicity that starts the cycle.

Now, you might not throw insults and be a complete kitten to players but you are not the other 49+ people. It is almost guaranteed to see people start cussing when players want to finish and it is usually the farmers who start.

i payed for this game, so did the 50 others who ,for them, farming IS the content. your arguement is based solely on the fact that your idea of game progress aligns more closely to the one finishing for LS, rather than the ones farming, whose progress is gold/items they need to get what they want from the game. People don’t understand that progress is different for everyone, and by refusing to let us help them they are barring 50 players from the content that THEY payed for. its usually the farmers that start it? please. maybe 5% of the farmers are toxic at most, its probably about 75% of the players looking for LS that are toxic.

Utter rubbish.. you can try and mask the issue all you like.. LS is the reason for the event and if it wasn’t meant to be progressed then it would not be there.

The reason and only reason the toxicity occurs is because the Failtrain seek to claim ownership of a map event that has implications for others needing to run it.. so quit with your self professed BS .

If the only way this kind of behaviour and attitude can be taken out of the game then I am all for ANET killing the champ loot from these events and making it a win or bust scenario.. with a 1hr timer on the fail timer and then we can all go swimming in your #RIVEROFTEARS

This is why an anti-failtrain zerg began to appear at BLIX to intentionally go and disrupt the failtrains exploitation.. I hopped into a few of their runs and tbh it was so much fun seeing the map chat light up in a blaze of laughter when failtrains conceded defeat and moved on.. posting more LFG’s to make their new map populated.. only to find the failtrain joined the adverts and followed them round… that is the kind of issues these exploits begin to create so if ANET don’t want to act harder on failtrain exploits then I am sure the same thing will happen again.. until eventually it becomes a war of words like BLIX.

Observations:

• Rewards being more lucrative for failing the event is an unintended consequence of the juxtaposition of varied game systems
• These things always go down the same; players on one side complain, then players on the other side complain; then ANet nerfs the failed event respawn
• Nobody owns the event; it’s ANet’s. If they nerf it due to the unintended consequences, then that’s their privilege. If they nerf because of undesirable arguments in chat … well, you think people would learn … but they don’t seem to, do they?

weston.3457:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

weston.3457:

to everyone who has ever said that “events werent designed to be failed” go defend nebo terrace, tell me how it works out for you…

Failing because you don’t have the numbers and or tactics to successfully complete an event is entirely different from failing intentionally for loot.

its not about numbers or tactics, ANet put events in the game that you CAN NOT complete, so saying events werent designed to be failed is an invalid arguement.

That’s nonsense. Name a single event that is in the game that can’t be completed by design and I’ll tell you that you’re lying and/or exaggerating in the extreme to prove a point.

Bloodstealer.5978:

weston.3457:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Cut the victimization. You guys are trying to bar players from content for your own gain and in that sense you are wrong for doing so. Regardless of what you do to help, it doesn’t change the fact that nobody should deny a paying customer from content. And flaming people who exert that privilege only makes it worse. That is the toxicity that starts the cycle.

Now, you might not throw insults and be a complete kitten to players but you are not the other 49+ people. It is almost guaranteed to see people start cussing when players want to finish and it is usually the farmers who start.

i payed for this game, so did the 50 others who ,for them, farming IS the content. your arguement is based solely on the fact that your idea of game progress aligns more closely to the one finishing for LS, rather than the ones farming, whose progress is gold/items they need to get what they want from the game. People don’t understand that progress is different for everyone, and by refusing to let us help them they are barring 50 players from the content that THEY payed for. its usually the farmers that start it? please. maybe 5% of the farmers are toxic at most, its probably about 75% of the players looking for LS that are toxic.

Utter rubbish.. you can try and mask the issue all you like.. LS is the reason for the event and if it wasn’t meant to be progressed then it would not be there.

The reason and only reason the toxicity occurs is because the Failtrain seek to claim ownership of a map event that has implications for others needing to run it.. so quit with your self professed BS .

If the only way this kind of behaviour and attitude can be taken out of the game then I am all for ANET killing the champ loot from these events and making it a win or bust scenario.. with a 1hr timer on the fail timer and then we can all go swimming in your #RIVEROFTEARS

This is why an anti-failtrain zerg began to appear at BLIX to intentionally go and disrupt the failtrains exploitation.. I hopped into a few of their runs and tbh it was so much fun seeing the map chat light up in a blaze of laughter when failtrains conceded defeat and moved on.. posting more LFG’s to make their new map populated.. only to find the failtrain joined the adverts and followed them round… that is the kind of issues these exploits begin to create so if ANET don’t want to act harder on failtrain exploits then I am sure the same thing will happen again.. until eventually it becomes a war of words like BLIX.

Two groups of players.

Each interested in a given bit of content for different reasons.

Anet has stated that both have the right to pursue their given approach to content.

One group chooses to actively attempt to disrupt the other, not for the sake of pursuing the content for themselves, for the purpose of griefing the other group…and then actively follows when the other group attempts to go find a place to play of their own so as to be able to continue the griefing.

Sounds like the toxicity rests, in your own given example, with those seeking to interfere with the farmers.

Here’s my take on it.

1. It’s fairly obvious that this is going to get patched at one point. While ANet has always said that farming is allowed, they obviously do not like players deliberately failing an event to speedfarm content, or scaling events up and then just farming the Champs. (Basically, the feeling I get from ANet is “You can farm, but we don’t want you to farm TOO efficiently.”)

2. The worst offenders are the ones that deliberately go out to grief the other side. These are the “train derailers”, as well as the ones who purposely draw in extra mobs or scale up an event without doing anything to help to make the ones trying to complete the event fail. Griefing and trolling is ALWAYS unacceptable, and should be punished.

3. The next worse offenders are the ones who insult or threaten the people who are asking for the other side to step back so they can do their intended activity in peace. Verbal abuse is not allowed, and should be reported.

Until this is patched, I would ask that the farmers allow players who want to complete the event to do their LS to do so. It’s, what, 10 mins off your farm cycle? Just go grab a drink or watch Youtube or place some orders on the TP while you wait.

And for the LS people, be polite. Once you’ve gotten your LS credit, leave the farmers in peace. Even if you disagree with what the farmers are doing, that’s a decision for ANet to handle, not you.

@ Ashen and weston

No, the toxicity lies within the farmers attempting to bar players from content they paid for and want to experience. The only people spewing toxicity are the farmers and the anti-farmers. And not everyone is an anti-farmer, but treating players who want to experience the content they paid for like total crap is enough to turn them into anti-farmers.

So in a sense, farmers generate more toxicity than they would like to believe.

But regardless, everyone who has paid for this game has every right to pursue w/e content they want to complete, but nobody has the right to flame players who do not play their way.

This is [/thread].

Bloodstealer.5978:

Utter rubbish.. you can try and mask the issue all you like.. LS is the reason for the event and if it wasn’t meant to be progressed then it would not be there.

The reason and only reason the toxicity occurs is because the Failtrain seek to claim ownership of a map event that has implications for others needing to run it.. so quit with your self professed BS .

If the only way this kind of behaviour and attitude can be taken out of the game then I am all for ANET killing the champ loot from these events and making it a win or bust scenario.. with a 1hr timer on the fail timer and then we can all go swimming in your #RIVEROFTEARS

This is why an anti-failtrain zerg began to appear at BLIX to intentionally go and disrupt the failtrains exploitation.. I hopped into a few of their runs and tbh it was so much fun seeing the map chat light up in a blaze of laughter when failtrains conceded defeat and moved on.. posting more LFG’s to make their new map populated.. only to find the failtrain joined the adverts and followed them round… that is the kind of issues these exploits begin to create so if ANET don’t want to act harder on failtrain exploits then I am sure the same thing will happen again.. until eventually it becomes a war of words like BLIX.

the event was in the game day one. we sit in the event peacefully, and help those that ask for LS. we do not open LFG parties because our guild has the numbers and discipline to do it ourselves peacefully on our own map. we do not create any toxicity nor do we deserve any in return. we are peaceful and helpful. your goal as an anti-train player is to grief all of us who peacefully do nothing wrong and go out of our way to help those that need it done.

fellyn.5083:

That’s nonsense. Name a single event that is in the game that can’t be completed by design and I’ll tell you that you’re lying and/or exaggerating in the extreme to prove a point.

i will again restate, go try and defend nebo terrace :]

Added three more albums.
http://imgur.com/a/JhIdm
http://imgur.com/a/hvpaW
http://imgur.com/a/WnGw2
http://imgur.com/a/n9xI9

Gedekran.1487:

Added three more albums.
http://imgur.com/a/JhIdm
http://imgur.com/a/hvpaW
http://imgur.com/a/WnGw2

One thing to note – those guys were going to every instance of Frostgorge, flaming anyone who wanted to complete the event, and then screwing the people farming it as well. Every instance of the map, for hours.

It all comes down to around 3 people who were there with no other intent than to interfere with as many other players as possible. That isn’t playing the game in any sense. That’s harassment.

weston.3457:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Utter rubbish.. you can try and mask the issue all you like.. LS is the reason for the event and if it wasn’t meant to be progressed then it would not be there.

The reason and only reason the toxicity occurs is because the Failtrain seek to claim ownership of a map event that has implications for others needing to run it.. so quit with your self professed BS .

If the only way this kind of behaviour and attitude can be taken out of the game then I am all for ANET killing the champ loot from these events and making it a win or bust scenario.. with a 1hr timer on the fail timer and then we can all go swimming in your #RIVEROFTEARS

This is why an anti-failtrain zerg began to appear at BLIX to intentionally go and disrupt the failtrains exploitation.. I hopped into a few of their runs and tbh it was so much fun seeing the map chat light up in a blaze of laughter when failtrains conceded defeat and moved on.. posting more LFG’s to make their new map populated.. only to find the failtrain joined the adverts and followed them round… that is the kind of issues these exploits begin to create so if ANET don’t want to act harder on failtrain exploits then I am sure the same thing will happen again.. until eventually it becomes a war of words like BLIX.

the event was in the game day one. we sit in the event peacefully, and help those that ask for LS. we do not open LFG parties because our guild has the numbers and discipline to do it ourselves peacefully on our own map. we do not create any toxicity nor do we deserve any in return. we are peaceful and helpful. your goal as an anti-train player is to grief all of us who peacefully do nothing wrong and go out of our way to help those that need it done.

Here’s the thing. You don’t own the map. Your guild does not own the map.

weston.3457:

fellyn.5083:

That’s nonsense. Name a single event that is in the game that can’t be completed by design and I’ll tell you that you’re lying and/or exaggerating in the extreme to prove a point.

i will again restate, go try and defend nebo terrace :]

You’re gonna have to be more specific than that. And an even if it is true that it’s designed not to be completed, which I doubt it is, that’s the exception and not the rule.

Edit: Nevermind. I know which event you’re talking about and I’m pretty sure the spawn rate for it is bugged in the extreme. Unless an anet rep has said it is in fact not, I’m gonna go with the obvious there.

Gedekran.1487:

Added three more albums.
http://imgur.com/a/JhIdm
http://imgur.com/a/hvpaW
http://imgur.com/a/WnGw2

I like the part where people are saying mass report.

It’s funny because abusing the report feature is bannable and anet does check logs. If they see a person get mass reported they will check and only see a person who is just playing the game as it’s meant to be played.

While the people doing the mass reporting exhibit aggressive behavior and continually run around in circles repeating the same event over and over.

I wonder which side anet will find more suspicious.

fellyn.5083:

You’re gonna have to be more specific than that. And an even if it is true that it’s designed not to be completed, which I doubt it is, that’s the exception and not the rule.

you see, youre calling me a liar, and now you will look foolish because of it, because everyone who goes and tries to defend nebo terrace will in fact see my case, and realize that you, like bloodstealer, and like gedarkin(dont know how to spell his name) are simply here to harass us. please continue to complain about how we are all evil and toxic farmers, but it wont change that we are farming, and it won’t change the fact that we help those in need of help. me and my guild literally just got done helping 5 people that needed it done for living story. you are simply here in the forums and at coiled to try to stir up toxicity and ruin fun for others. me and the 400+ players in my guild are nothing but helpful and friendly farmers and i dont appreciate you guys slandering our name, I will however not respond with toxicity because thats not how we do things. this will be my last post, you guys have a fine night and try not to intentionally ruin other peoples fun and be the people you are trying to complain against please? :] thanks, and best of luck to you

weston.3457:

fellyn.5083:

You’re gonna have to be more specific than that. And an even if it is true that it’s designed not to be completed, which I doubt it is, that’s the exception and not the rule.

you see, youre calling me a liar, and now you will look foolish because of it, because everyone who goes and tries to defend nebo terrace will in fact see my case, and realize that you, like bloodstealer, and like gedarkin(dont know how to spell his name) are simply here to harass us. please continue to complain about how we are all evil and toxic farmers, but it wont change that we are farming, and it won’t change the fact that we help those in need of help. me and my guild literally just got done helping 5 people that needed it done for living story. you are simply here in the forums and at coiled to try to stir up toxicity and ruin fun for others. me and the 400+ players in my guild are nothing but helpful and friendly farmers and i dont appreciate you guys slandering our name, I will however not respond with toxicity because thats not how we do things. this will be my last post, you guys have a fine night and try not to intentionally ruin other peoples fun and be the people you are trying to complain against please? :] thanks, and best of luck to you

Read my edit.

And it still doesn’t change the fact that even if what you say is true, and it’s designed to be an event that always fails (which it isn’t, according the change notes about the event, by the way) it is 1 event out of 1500.

Why not farm there then? And you still seem to be missing my point entirely. Failing events to farming them only leads to 1 conclusion. That is events getting nerfed. And then we see complaining on the forums about anet nerfing events and ruining peoples fun. And then they move onto the next one and the cycle continues.

Meanwhile, those of us playing the game as it’s designed are left with a game full of ruined events because greedy little farmers had to have more than everyone else.

Also I haven’t been to coiled watch event since I did it for LS a few weeks ago, fyi. I honestly thought about going there to hang out with the farmers and have a bit of fun but in the end I decided it was just not worth it.

And slander? Please. I don’t know you and I don’t want to know you and I haven’t said a single mean thing to you other than you’re ruining the game by farming things that aren’t meant to be farmed.

But sure, I’m the bad guy.

Fair warning though, I am playing a new character through the story and I will be doing the event and I’m not asking anyone one if I can have permission to finish it.

weston.3457:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Utter rubbish.. you can try and mask the issue all you like.. LS is the reason for the event and if it wasn’t meant to be progressed then it would not be there.

The reason and only reason the toxicity occurs is because the Failtrain seek to claim ownership of a map event that has implications for others needing to run it.. so quit with your self professed BS .

If the only way this kind of behaviour and attitude can be taken out of the game then I am all for ANET killing the champ loot from these events and making it a win or bust scenario.. with a 1hr timer on the fail timer and then we can all go swimming in your #RIVEROFTEARS

This is why an anti-failtrain zerg began to appear at BLIX to intentionally go and disrupt the failtrains exploitation.. I hopped into a few of their runs and tbh it was so much fun seeing the map chat light up in a blaze of laughter when failtrains conceded defeat and moved on.. posting more LFG’s to make their new map populated.. only to find the failtrain joined the adverts and followed them round… that is the kind of issues these exploits begin to create so if ANET don’t want to act harder on failtrain exploits then I am sure the same thing will happen again.. until eventually it becomes a war of words like BLIX.

the event was in the game day one. we sit in the event peacefully, and help those that ask for LS. we do not open LFG parties because our guild has the numbers and discipline to do it ourselves peacefully on our own map. we do not create any toxicity nor do we deserve any in return. we are peaceful and helpful. your goal as an anti-train player is to grief all of us who peacefully do nothing wrong and go out of our way to help those that need it done.

I merely jumped into the antifail train to see how bad the BLIX exploit had become and what others were doing.. its was merely out of interest.. but the outcome was I admit “pleasing”.
I did not even engage in the event nor did I make comment either way.. but if I were to choose which side of the fence to sit, I would definitely favour what those players decided to do because they were fed up with being abused constantly for wanting to run things as they are meant to be. To the point actually getting a map where it wasn’t being exploited was nigh impossible.. and the plethora of LFG’s sending each map copy viral was as clearer indication to ANET that something must be wrong, but they chose to try and water down the issue rather than make a clear statement of effect..

In regards to COIL – You may be a peaceful guild looking to do things in isolation to the issue , but in doing so your still taking a map and trying to take ownership of an openworld event that definitely is not designed to be failed in order to abuse a known exploit for your personal gain and in doing so halting progression for anyone wanting to do LS.. please don’t try to make out you suddenly tell everyone “Stop, Stop. LS players want completion all change, kill everything let them through, swords down”
You may not make comment but you sound like you do your best to move those players on again elsewhere.
You and your 50 might have paid for the game and choose to farm.. as do I when I want to, I enjoy a bit of farming from time to time, but I and many like me don’t have to exploit and crowd out events to do so.. we also paid for the game to play the game as it was designed to be played.

ANET if this is how you planned for your PvP element of the game to blossom, then you have an absolute winning formula by way of allowing the constant exploitation of your game.

If on the other hand this is not what you envisaged both your Openworld and Living Story turning into then it is high time you put down the cotton wool and ear mufflers and come out with a statement to protect the integrity of your game, we all know there are grey areas and definite flawed content/systems, every MMO has the same thing, but you need to seriously look into fixing the event reward system to cull the failtrain exploits and take action on those players that have radically abused the exploitation of the event mechanics… Just because content has flaws doesn’t mean it is meant to be exploited and should be punishable…
The precedent has now been set.. Once an event flaw is found to be ripe for exploiting, they send it viral, ill feeling creeps into the map/event/community . ANET patch said event (sometimes badly) and same players move to their next targeted event.. cycle repeats over and over until pretty soon every map becomes a giant toxic bomb day after day week after week with uncontrollable hoardes of loot entering into the food stream.

Is this really what you envisaged your game evolving into? If so let us all know its fine and dandy, exploit to our hearts content and don’t design events with chains or progressive elements.. make everything a standalone event in isolation to anything else..

Rising Dusk.2408:

Draknar.5748:

I think the issue is that she had to essentially ask permission to do an event that she should be allowed to complete to progress her Living Story without any other players’ permission.

I’m curious what would have happened if they said “NO GTFO NUB.” Would you guys apologize and then try to taxi to a different map?

Need should take priority over want.

Neither getting the achievements done nor farming are needs. She asked permission because she is one (1) person asking many (>1) people to do something they ordinarily wouldn’t do. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and their reaction was noble; they had no obligation to finish the event.

The only “toxicity” that happens at these chains is when people start being rude because they demand that others do what they want even if they don’t want to.

See, you’re the end result of equivalency nihilist thinking. She doesn’t need the achievements and the farmers don’t need to fail farm.

While we’re at it, no one needs to play the game. We can all stop now because no one needs any of this!

Just a tent, a fire, some water, and some food. Paradise, right?

So rejecting that foolishness, common sense dictates you don’t play a game to fail. Failing an event should not be more rewarding than success.

Failure can reward an honest effort, but this reward should in no way ever be more lucrative than the success of an event.

You should be encouraged to succeed. You know what you get when you fail Tequatl? 89c and some karma.
_

Trolling and rage from both parties aside, the event rewarding failure to such a degree that it inspires a fail farm is an obvious problem that needs to be fixed.

In the mean time, ya’ll have fun being mad at each other and playing who-gonna-get-the-ban.

Mind your language in the public channels, kiddos.

http://imgur.com/a/mvMpS

Here I start out trying to complete the even solo. Toward the end another player saw where I was trying to complete the event and tried to help until he gave up from the verbal abuse. Was still able to complete it but failed to escort the dolyak.

weston.3457:

fellyn.5083:

That’s nonsense. Name a single event that is in the game that can’t be completed by design and I’ll tell you that you’re lying and/or exaggerating in the extreme to prove a point.

i will again restate, go try and defend nebo terrace :]

I know you’ve said this, but I’m pretty sure I’ve successfully defended Nebo Terrance on a number of occasions. Are you telling me the event is now impossible no matter what size group of people? Isn’t it the one with the centaurs and three different entrances that you need to fight off? If it is, then I’ve completely it every time I’ve attempted it. If you are talking about a different event then I will have to look into that.

I stumbled across coil farm on an empty map- just saw the potential for some nice loot and later came to the same spot in an instance where people were farming.
There is rude and nasty behavior on both sides, though I have also observed that people indignant that anyone would farm in the game instigate way more bitterness and drama than people who just want to get their story.

I agree- no one owns the map. No one is more entitled to anything. But if we want to play nicely together and stop this nastiness, that means not only that the group shouldn’t bully individuals (please report those who do), but individuals shouldn’t go out of their way to spite the group out of judgement and some sense of justice. Saying “You don’t own the map!” and then camping the event others are working together to benefit from is like adding the addendum, “I do! It’s MY map!”

I have only visited coil a few times and i’ve found this situation any time there is conflict. Farmers ask the one completing the event to please cooperate, or leave the map. Usually the person will cooperate. It’s always been someone who isn’t even thinking about the story who refuses and instead insists, “No! All of YOU leave the map!” (My map!! All mine!!)

Personally I wouldn’t bother with farming, but lately the living story content has become account bound item rewards and there’s no way to really profit from just playing the game as intended. The last three chapters have in fact been a gold sink, with the exclusive skins costing materials without any coin gain. Compounded by the grossly inflated gold prices and for me to finish collecting the last 500 t6 mats needed for my legendary would take several months or maybe a year. I don’t want to spend two hours a day circling level 80 zones killing one monster at a time to pick up my 5 t6 mats a day. I’d rather spend 30-40 mins farming efficiently, and go back to less profitable, but more fun play such as wvw, pvp, or low level exploration.

As for “Just run dungeons for the 1g”, after running all three paths of several dungeons every day or every other day I got thoroughly burned out. It’s not fun anymore and an alternative helps keep me playing. I see very little difference between the coil event and the temples in orr, for instance. If the grenth event were done with 7 people, maybe it could be considered working for the loot, but it’s always 80 people crowded in the temple spamming 1 just as brainlessly as any coil farmer.

If every bit of farming in this game gets nerfed I wouldn’t mind, so long as the economy heals from all this inflation and 1g is worth something again so I never have to farm again.

http://imgur.com/a/z6y9m

Just went back and defended/dolyak/ice totem etc.

fellyn.5083:

Gedekran.1487:

Added three more albums.
http://imgur.com/a/JhIdm
http://imgur.com/a/hvpaW
http://imgur.com/a/WnGw2

I like the part where people are saying mass report.

It’s funny because abusing the report feature is bannable and anet does check logs. If they see a person get mass reported they will check and only see a person who is just playing the game as it’s meant to be played.

While the people doing the mass reporting exhibit aggressive behavior and continually run around in circles repeating the same event over and over.

I wonder which side anet will find more suspicious.

Greefa and Meatchop were two of the people who did the same thing at blix. They always try to claim it’s for the good of x, but the reality is they just like stirring up trouble, no more no less. Personally I think it’s silly the way Anet rewards failure, but I would never try to grief an event. I’m with you though, if there is something I need I am going to do it and not ask permission, but once I have accomplished whatever it is I move on.

This conflict demonstrates the problem with vigilantes: They’re often worse than the problems they claim to solve.

If the people trying to disrupt these event farms really believed they were making the game better then I could understand their self-righteousness even if I didn’t agree with it. But what I’ve seen is clearly trolling and totally indefensible.

…..

(ObGW2) I think that “play how you want” should include some form of “farming” as part of an array of activities requiring various levels of engagement and time commitment. There’s two axes there, and all quadrants serve a purpose, to someone, some of the time. If people have a desire to farm, give them something to farm and you’ll find other events less abused and the community less divided.

While I’m at it, I really miss Boss Blitz. That was just about the perfect event, all it needed was to help players self-organize a little better so they wouldn’t have to resort to voip to coordinate.

This will happen for as long as failing events are more profitable. I eapecially loved the comment that one guy said that if they had asked to complete the event that they may have allowed that. As if players need permission.

Hah, I guess it’s the next place after the Pig Iron Quarry and the Cursed Shore failfarms I’ll have to visit and fight for the good cause… Fixing the errors in the game before the Anet gets around to it.

fellyn.5083:

That’s nonsense. Name a single event that is in the game that can’t be completed by design and I’ll tell you that you’re lying and/or exaggerating in the extreme to prove a point.

I would not say any events are designed to be failed. However, certain defense events are designed to become tougher with each repetition so that failure will be inevitable at some point and the event chain will reset.

For example, take the Balthazar temple event. Once the temple is captured, the next event is to defend it. If the temple is successfully defended, then the next event will be to defend it again, but the waves will be tougher. If the temple is again defended, the third defense event will be tougher yet. Eventually the temple will be taken back by the risen and the whole chain starts over.

Saying that these events are “designed to be failed,” however, misses the point. And I don’t think it really applies to Coiled Watch, since the next event after the defense is the assault on Barrowstead.

The more-honest among the farmers admit that the event will get nerfed sooner or later, which makes a mockery of the claim that ANet considers their style of playing the event just as valid as any other. It is the farmers who should have to ask anyone present if it’s okay to fail the event deliberately and go find another instance if anyone objects. Those with instructions on their screens telling them to attend and complete the event are the ones with priority on any map.

It’s all well and good to tell LS people to just ignore the chat and complete the event anyway, but this is almost impossible for a solo player or small group once the event has been scaled up. Then, even if you succeed by some miracle, you aren’t out of the woods because you then have to keep the dolyaks alive through the scaled waves without any help from the zillion people yelling “let the yaks die!” (though they will at least jump the champ that comes out). Even the battle in Barrowstead, if you make it that far, appears to maintain the scaling even though the farmers don’t follow you there. If you fail at any point, then you’re back to square one trying to cap Coiled.

I spent hours going through this cycle about a week ago. I’ve been away from the game for some time, and couldn’t understand why the event I needed kept failing even though there were many players there. I didn’t know about trains or failtrains, which didn’t exist when I was last playing actively, so I certainly wasn’t there as the troll I was accused of being. I was just trying to play while people kept telling me to get out of the cap zone for some reason I could not understand.

I paid real money for the gems that allowed me to obtain that episode, and I did not appreciate being told to go elsewhere to play because I didn’t own the map. AFAIK, the farmers paid nothing extra for their “privilege” to fail. I was not looking for a confrontation and tried to get a new instance, but couldn’t. I ended up wasting most of a day trying to get through this part of the story, though it shouldn’t have taken as much as an hour. I was not hostile to farmers before, but I’m half tempted to join the spoiler brigade now! Farmers, you are creating your own enemies. That won’t turn out well for anybody.

Blaeys.3102:

Skoigoth.9238:

Alright, two things….

1. The fact that failing an event is more rewarding than completing it is a problem in and of itself. It is not the players fault, it is just horrible game design and I don´t understand why a-net doesn´t change it. And by that I do NOT mean increasing the time until events start, or removing loot from mobs, I mean ACTUALLY making completing events more profitable. Until this happens you can´t really blame people for trying to farm these events in the most efficient manner.

2. There are ALWAYS jerks on both sides of the argument, but that doesn´t mean all farmers are griefers, or similarly all people trying to complete such an event are griefers. From personal experience I can say that most people farming these events are nice, helpful and civil people, but they remain mostly silent. The ones that are vocal are unfortunately the jerks that are trying scare the “uninitiated” of the map/away from the events by insulting and harassing them. These people should be reported and warned/banned for a couple of days, no question about that. BUT, on the other side you also have people that harass and insult the farmers. Some of them actively seek to set the whole map up against the farmers, not because they actually want to complete the event, but because they take personal pleasure in ruining the farm for the others. They should be treated similarly to the griefers on the farmers side because they are doing the same thing: Insulting and harassing other players, therefore, report them if they say inappropriate stuff in map/say/whisper chat and hope they get a warning/ban.

Period.

Well said. The griefing comes when people start making attacks in map chat or whispers. No matter which direction that comes from, it deserves to be reported.

And I do believe Anet will fix this event. People (on both sides) wont be happy with that fix, but it will be needed to quell the hate were seeing.

I have seen the griefing go both ways on the map and both are definitely wrong. They will end up nerfing any champ farming in the end by their behavior. Yesterday I was doing the Frostgorge champ train and one individual was dedicating himself to making sure the coil succeeded to thwart the coil farmers and then came over to the champ train and took things down before others could get there. Obviously he got satisfaction out of messing with folk, but the chat just kept inciting him. He did not really reply to anyone but was obviously feeling very validated by the constant toxic comments a few were making. The rest of us ignored him and he finally left.

Everyone needs to use some courtesy. No one should be told to go find another map. I do feel that if someone is on the map trying to complete an achievement and says so, the nice thing to do is everyone helps the person through to their achievement and then they can go back to farming. Usually there are not that many coming in over a period to time asking to do that. If anything the farmers can designate one time every hour they will complete the event for any achievers and put it out that they are doing just that. Everyone wins and gets to play “their way.” I think there would be a lot less angst and strife if both sides would work to help each other out.

Aerinndis.2730:

Blaeys.3102:

Skoigoth.9238:

Alright, two things….

1. The fact that failing an event is more rewarding than completing it is a problem in and of itself. It is not the players fault, it is just horrible game design and I don´t understand why a-net doesn´t change it. And by that I do NOT mean increasing the time until events start, or removing loot from mobs, I mean ACTUALLY making completing events more profitable. Until this happens you can´t really blame people for trying to farm these events in the most efficient manner.

2. There are ALWAYS jerks on both sides of the argument, but that doesn´t mean all farmers are griefers, or similarly all people trying to complete such an event are griefers. From personal experience I can say that most people farming these events are nice, helpful and civil people, but they remain mostly silent. The ones that are vocal are unfortunately the jerks that are trying scare the “uninitiated” of the map/away from the events by insulting and harassing them. These people should be reported and warned/banned for a couple of days, no question about that. BUT, on the other side you also have people that harass and insult the farmers. Some of them actively seek to set the whole map up against the farmers, not because they actually want to complete the event, but because they take personal pleasure in ruining the farm for the others. They should be treated similarly to the griefers on the farmers side because they are doing the same thing: Insulting and harassing other players, therefore, report them if they say inappropriate stuff in map/say/whisper chat and hope they get a warning/ban.

Period.

Well said. The griefing comes when people start making attacks in map chat or whispers. No matter which direction that comes from, it deserves to be reported.

And I do believe Anet will fix this event. People (on both sides) wont be happy with that fix, but it will be needed to quell the hate were seeing.

I have seen the griefing go both ways on the map and both are definitely wrong. They will end up nerfing any champ farming in the end by their behavior. Yesterday I was doing the Frostgorge champ train and one individual was dedicating himself to making sure the coil succeeded to thwart the coil farmers and then came over to the champ train and took things down before others could get there. Obviously he got satisfaction out of messing with folk, but the chat just kept inciting him. He did not really reply to anyone but was obviously feeling very validated by the constant toxic comments a few were making. The rest of us ignored him and he finally left.

Everyone needs to use some courtesy. I do feel that if someone is on the map trying to complete an achievement and says so, the nice thing to do is everyone helps the person through to their achievement and then they can go back to farming. Usually there are not that many coming in over a period to time asking to do that. If anything the farmers can designate one time every hour they will complete the event for any achievers and put it out that they are doing just that. Everyone wins and gets to play “their way.” I think there would be a lot less angst and strife if both sides would work to help each other out.

I agree with you that all people should use some courtesy, however I don’t agree that farmers should “designate” time. That is implying that there is a clear perception of “ownership” or that they have some authority to do such a thing. It’s pretty easy really, people who want to progress their living story or work on an achievement tied to a certain event always take precedence since successful completion is the only way to achieve that goal. Farmers can farm at any event, the only thing that is affected for them is how much loot they get, not whether or not they farm entirely.

Aerinndis.2730:

I have seen the griefing go both ways on the map and both are definitely wrong. They will end up nerfing any champ farming in the end by their behavior. Yesterday I was doing the Frostgorge champ train and one individual was dedicating himself to making sure the coil succeeded to thwart the coil farmers and then came over to the champ train and took things down before others could get there. Obviously he got satisfaction out of messing with folk, but the chat just kept inciting him. He did not really reply to anyone but was obviously feeling very validated by the constant toxic comments a few were making. The rest of us ignored him and he finally left.

The game is designed so that everyone gets a share of the event rewards from participating in the event. If you contribute to the event you get your share of the rewards. He is entitled to start any event and finish any event. He cannot stop you from getting those rewards if you fight with him. Those events are not your preserve and if you want to do them then you can help him do them. If you want to do them ‘your way’ then wait for them to respawn. If you gave him verbal abuse then it was not surprising he was inconsiderate towards your game play.

The scaling of events to include champions with purses is a game mechanic and not a reward principle. It is a not a game problem if individuals complete events with the scaling that is correctly appropriate for them.

I believe everyone has the right to play their own way. When it stops players from completing the main storyline I think it should be a bannable offense. I think to stop this and future problems like it the devs should make elites the highest type of mob spawnable during events. There is more than enough champs around to farm and this will let the players complete events for storylines.

The change I think would make the greatest impact would be to remove champion bags from the game completely and replace them with “group event bags” (that scale in reward if the event scales) – and make all champions in the game (except those that spawn as part of scaling events) into group events.

They should reward people for succeeding at events rather than just randomly killing champs.

In the meantime, my original stance on this stands – if anyone, on either side, starts mouthing off in map chat and attacking the other side (or trying to berate people into doing things “their way”), report/block and keep on playing your way.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

I agree with you that all people should use some courtesy, however I don’t agree that farmers should “designate” time. That is implying that there is a clear perception of “ownership” or that they have some authority to do such a thing. It’s pretty easy really, people who want to progress their living story or work on an achievement tied to a certain event always take precedence since successful completion is the only way to achieve that goal. Farmers can farm at any event, the only thing that is affected for them is how much loot they get, not whether or not they farm entirely.

I did not intend for that to come across as implying any sort of ownership on the part of the farmers. I meant more that folk be more flexible when someone else comes along and honestly states they need to complete an achievement. It was just a suggestion to put aside a bit of time so that the story completers could get their stuff done – at least it is meeting someone halfway. It always bothers me when folk get told to just go find another map – that implies ownership… Courtesy and acknowledging those folk have a goal is really the key thing. As you said, farming can be done at any event, often it is a lot harder to get the story done.

Stooperdale.3560:

The game is designed so that everyone gets a share of the event rewards from participating in the event. If you contribute to the event you get your share of the rewards. He is entitled to start any event and finish any event. He cannot stop you from getting those rewards if you fight with him. Those events are not your preserve and if you want to do them then you can help him do them. If you want to do them ‘your way’ then wait for them to respawn. If you gave him verbal abuse then it was not surprising he was inconsiderate towards your game play.

The scaling of events to include champions with purses is a game mechanic and not a reward principle. It is a not a game problem if individuals complete events with the scaling that is correctly appropriate for them.

Nowhere did I indicate I gave any verbal abuse. I was just a witness to what was going on. I acknowledge he could play how he wanted, others on the map certainly didn’t feel that way. For the individuals who want to “play their way” that is fine too, even if it is obvious they are out to harass other’s play styles which in what little he did say, he acknowledged that was his goal. When I encountered that and the toxic chat I just went off and did something else till it was over. I did not feel I should be forced from the map either by the behaviors and I felt both parties were behaving badly. It wasn’t the bulk of the farmers, it was only a couple of toxic people who kept at it. Also there is no point in feeding the fire on something like this, there are no winners so I stayed out of it. Besides, there were plenty of other things to do until it all calmed down. A lot of folk just stayed quiet and waited for stuff to respawn. Getting a loot bag is not the be-all, end-all anyway, but it obviously is for some.

sadly this is how 80% of the people inform us they want to complete

weston.3457:

sadly this is how 80% of the people inform us they want to complete

I guess telling those who want LS to zone out to move maps kinda says it all really, would be interesting to see the the start of the conversation/conflict cos something obviously triggered the player to come out and say what is shown, either that or this is one serious random way to enter a map discussion. But maybe you needed to drop a few . – . -*. $$ £ .. ; into the conversation to drop down the last comment shown, which in lemans terms was nothing more than a GTFO of our farm! .. if that’s your idea of a helping hand, I sure would love to see the how it concluded.. I am guessing the beginning and end of the convo were likely very inclusive of that guildie of yours and likely why the player got more direct with the abuse coming the otherway.

Bottom line is you and your guildies do not own the instance, you have zero right to impede another players progress through an event chain, no matter what map copy you have sought out. The event is absolutely designed to be completed else why have a LS at all if you cant get through the chapter…

Of course… this could all be some ruse, a staged conversion to try and get your points across…. anyone can do that and grab the screenie.. I will try it later maybe and see if I can manipulate the conversation to show the otherside of failtrain abuse…. see what I did there!

Anyhow nice attempt at showing your perhaps not one of the main protagonists in the failtrain issues, at least you say you go find your own map copy to fill and keep it as close to a guild run as is possible.. for that I do slightly tip my hat to you.

weston.3457:

sadly this is how 80% of the people inform us they want to complete

You know. That’s not the case for everyone. Yesterday I said that I had about an hour to complete the personal story segment. I was completely ignored by 50+ people.

When I, y’know, tried to complete the event I died repeatedly despite 50+ people that could have taken pity and revived me from downed state. I also got death threats and tons of pessimistic hate messages.

Not one offered any help or suggestions with regards to how to complete it. But you know, I guess calling people who want to complete the living story mother kitteners is completely okay here.

It’s only a matter of time before people form guilds specifically to make these events succeed.

I think that sounds like a fantastic idea.

One way or the other though, the event chain will be nerfed. I look forward to more “anet ruined our farm” posts on the forum, followed in the weeks after by “****** event being failed on purpose halting progress in game” posts followed by anet nerfing the event..

The people farming these events cause their own problems.

This is what happens when ANet nerfs everything and refuses to have designated farming spots. Farmers can’t farm without interrupting people who want to complete the event. Although, the only toxicity I’ve seen is mostly from the griefers. Example below… Three appropriately named commanders showed up to grief the farmers. They don’t care about coiled watch; nobody did until it became a popular farm. Same thing with Blix. The ones that screamed “omergerd exploit!111” were actually trolls who get a kick out of ruining other players’ fun. I bet they don’t even hang around Orr anymore.

Faereilos.5106:

This is what happens when ANet nerfs everything and refuses to have designated farming spots. Farmers can’t farm without interrupting people who want to complete the event. Although, the only toxicity I’ve seen is mostly from the griefers. Example below… Three appropriately named commanders showed up to grief the farmers. They don’t care about coiled watch; nobody did until it became a popular farm. Same thing with Blix. The ones that screamed “omergerd exploit!111” were actually trolls who get a kick out of ruining other players’ fun. I bet they don’t even hang around Orr anymore.

Uh. You do realize that there is a champion farm rout in that EXACT SAME AREA that is run regularly right? But I guess that’s not good enough for you.

But nono, you have to farm an event that is needed for not only several achievements, but for progressing living story as well, like you have the god given right to do so. And incidentally those things are by design, unlike fail farming it.

fellyn.5083:

Faereilos.5106:

This is what happens when ANet nerfs everything and refuses to have designated farming spots. Farmers can’t farm without interrupting people who want to complete the event. Although, the only toxicity I’ve seen is mostly from the griefers. Example below… Three appropriately named commanders showed up to grief the farmers. They don’t care about coiled watch; nobody did until it became a popular farm. Same thing with Blix. The ones that screamed “omergerd exploit!111” were actually trolls who get a kick out of ruining other players’ fun. I bet they don’t even hang around Orr anymore.

Uh. You do realize that there is a champion farm rout in that EXACT SAME AREA that is run regularly right? But I guess that’s not good enough for you.

But nono, you have to farm an event that is needed for not only several achievements, but for progressing living story as well, like you have the god given right to do so. And incidentally those things are by design, unlike fail farming it.

FGS train isn’t as good though. One champ box nets 1s, plus some junk stuff. Subtract the WP fee from that and you’re left with very little profit. Also it’s boring. Coiled trash mobs drop heavy icy bags, greens, blues and lots of copper/silver. Why do you think people farmed Blix instead of the champ train in Orr?

And I never said I have the god given right to farm there. I’m just pointing out that we need farm spots to be separated from LS content or whatever, else there will be conflict. Still, you can’t blame or stop people for farming a profitable event.

Faereilos.5106:

fellyn.5083:

Faereilos.5106:

This is what happens when ANet nerfs everything and refuses to have designated farming spots. Farmers can’t farm without interrupting people who want to complete the event. Although, the only toxicity I’ve seen is mostly from the griefers. Example below… Three appropriately named commanders showed up to grief the farmers. They don’t care about coiled watch; nobody did until it became a popular farm. Same thing with Blix. The ones that screamed “omergerd exploit!111” were actually trolls who get a kick out of ruining other players’ fun. I bet they don’t even hang around Orr anymore.

Uh. You do realize that there is a champion farm rout in that EXACT SAME AREA that is run regularly right? But I guess that’s not good enough for you.

But nono, you have to farm an event that is needed for not only several achievements, but for progressing living story as well, like you have the god given right to do so. And incidentally those things are by design, unlike fail farming it.

FGS train isn’t as good though. One champ box nets 1s, plus some junk stuff. Subtract the WP fee from that and you’re left with very little profit. Also it’s boring. Coiled trash mobs drop heavy icy bags, greens, blues and lots of copper/silver. Why do you think people farmed Blix instead of the champ train in Orr?

And I never said I have the god given right to farm there. I’m just pointing out that we need farm spots to be separated from LS content or whatever, else there will be conflict. Still, you can’t blame or stop people for farming a profitable event.

And yet those are the things anet wants you to farm.

Failing an event for it to be farmed was never an intended design mechanic.

Rest assured that it will be nerfed and you have no one to blame but yourself for that.

I would like to thank you advance for ruining it for everyone else who isn’t farming it.

“I’m just pointing out that we need farm spots to be separated from LS content or whatever, "

You have them. The fact you deem them not good enough is your own problem. Have you even been in cursed shore recently?

And the farmers will just find another event. What does nerfing coiled solve? If ANet’s game design doesn’t naturally pull players to farm where they’re supposed to, then the design has failed.

I’ve been to CS plenty and got a truck load of porous bones to show for it.

Faereilos.5106:

And the farmers will just find another event. What does nerfing coiled solve? If ANet’s game design doesn’t naturally pull players to farm where they’re supposed to, then the design has failed.

I’ve been to CS plenty and got a truck load of porous bones to show for it.

It’s not the farming that is a problem. It’s this event in particular, which is part of a story mission. If, when people request the event be completed, everyone could be considerate and patient, there wouldn’t be an issue. We have:

A. Farmers who refuse to to complete and tell the other player to find a new map.
B. Players who request completion but become impatient and rude.

And lots of in between situations as well. It becomes an argument of entitlement. As long as champs are spawning and loot is dropping, the problem will remain.

rhapsody.3615:

It’s not the farming that is a problem. It’s this event in particular, which is part of a story mission.

Nah if coiled wasn’t attached to LS somebody will still scream exploit. Just like Blix.

Probably because it is exploiting game mechanics for profit.

fellyn.5083:

Probably because it is exploiting game mechanics for profit.

Report them with the in game report system if they are exploiting.