Guild Wars 2

it must be really frustrating for devs when they work for months on a project (like EotM) just to get the response from players that “it’s not WvW”. This is only an example, there are more. People state things like that about DryTop, sPvP maps,…

Because of this I understand why devs would hate to read forum posts (tons of non-constructive, non-respectful posts among the better ones).

Personally I love reading constructive posts on reddit. I downvote players who answer in non-respectful ways regularly. The reddit-tool remembers those downvotes and marks those players with red tags for me, so it’s really easy for me to skip their postings. This way reading through reddit threads without constantly getting the bad vibes is relatively easy for me.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Prysin.8542:

which in hindsight can be seen as a bad policy. Just look at the dissatisfaction on these forums, that policy is the sole cause of that. […]

I understand your point, but how would you suggest to prevent future outrages about features that get announced (like the precursor hunt) and possibly scrapped later on because it doesn’t meet Anets standards?

People will scream that they’d rather want a bad implementation than nothing at all, but this would lead to a game where half-baked stuff is implemented which would lower the quality of the game as a whole.

brutal honesty would be their tool.

announce → develop → failure → say that you failed and will have to revisit it in the future.

if you admit defeat and announce that you will have to look at it later, you can stall things for as long as you want/need.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

it must be really frustrating for devs when they work for months on a project (like EotM) just to get the response from players that “it’s not WvW”. This is only an example, there are more. People state things like that about DryTop, sPvP maps,…

Because of this I understand why devs would hate to read forum posts (tons of non-constructive, non-respectful posts among the better ones).

Personally I love reading constructive posts on reddit. I downvote players who answer in non-respectful ways regularly. The reddit-tool remembers those downvotes and marks those players with red tags for me, so it’s really easy for me to skip their postings. This way reading through reddit threads without constantly getting the bad vibes is relatively easy for me.

This wouldn’t be a problem if they just took player feedback more seriously and earlier in the design stage.

Skyhammer, for instance, could be massively improved if they just removed the destructible panels and made the cannon possible to dodge. But instead of following that kind of advice that was made literally the day of the map’s launch, they arrogantly stick to their guns with almost every feature and piece of content.

Similar things can be said about Edge of the Mists. The map just needs more of an incentive to play, and some of the experiments in it need to be toned down, such as the cannons. But instead of making any changes whatsoever, they arrogantly stick to their original design.

One of their excuses for this is it’s apparently really difficult for them to deploy hotfixes and change tooltips. But I find that hard to believe. If it’s true, then they seriously screwed up the game’s back end because an extremely basic part of MMOs is doing quick hotfixes. Even notoriously slow developers like Blizzard deploy a huge amount of hotfixes, even some balance changes, after they release a patch.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Atlas.9704:

Maybe one of the CDIs could be more of what ANet thinks is important and we sit and listen for a change? I can’t remember if this was done in the past, but personally it would help discussions in the future.

I think that’d be an interesting discussion, you’ll probably be surprised to find the “big” lists aren’t that different, it’s just that since we can’t share the projects we’re working on to solve them – it’s not clear we’re actually working on, or even aware of or worried about the issue. Worse, when people see work being done in other areas shipping rather than what seems like a core area, they assume no work is being done and no one is even aware of the other issue.

At its core, I think that’s a lot of the problem communication wise – it’s a tough nut to crack when we’re also not allowed to discuss what’s in development, but I’m sure we can find a better balance than we have currently and your suggestion at its core could be a good way to help find that balance.

Maybe the community team could keep a rolling “top over-all concerns” for core development areas of the game from the dev teams perspective? We wouldn’t be allowed to go into specifics per our rules about not discussing what’s in development, but certainly categorical summaries could help?

IMO this would be a good thing to start with. It would enable me as a player to make informed decisions on my direction in the game. If precursor crafting was not seen as a top concern, I would know not to wait for it. If the problems with condition stacking in large scale PvE events was not on your list, I would know not to invest more in my condition spec necro for PvE. (Obviously, other players would have other top concerns).

Of course, knowing if the things that were the most important to me were actively being worked on would be optimal, but since this isn’t possible just knowing that the devs see these problems as important would mean a lot for my decisions on what to do in my game.

Colin….I just have one question for you sir……..Where is my dam 2H AXE?

Conner.4702:

I said it to Chris before, but I feel the need to say it again. It’s the company policy that is partly to blame for the forums turning into a massive cesspool. While most game forums don’t smell of roses this one is by far the worst. A lot of people have soured on you guys due to this policy. It really is time to reassess how rigidly you want to hold on to this policy.
I’ll guarantee this it will only get worse if the same pattern keeps being followed. As the downward line is much steeper than the upward line that pops up during the brief, 1-2 months worth, communication periods.

The individuals who can change this policy do not interact with players on the forums.

Dear Colin, Chris,

First fo all I really appreciate that you paid attention to the communication topic.
Will try to be short.

Problems in CDI concept
1. No clear target defined. What exactly Arenanet would like to achieve? Just some feedback from random customers about some specific things? Or brainstorm about a way where to go with development? And how you will use the feedback? Etc.
2. Often not proper way to achieve this target. Partially because p.1 is not solved.
3. Big customer base and not enough resouces to comminicate with each player.

Some simple suggestions:

1. Make dedicated person who is responsible for the task.
2. Define the target.
3. Find best way to reach this target and requred resources,
4. Approve and get requred resources.
5. Do the task.

Examples:
a) If the target is to have proper feedback from most of customers about big things – the forum is not a proper way. Because on forum you see minority of players (but active minority). It should be ingame option like in Beta.

b) If the target is to have some brainstorm then should be a system to collect results and sort it to different catogories. Also must be dedicated person who is responsible for the analysis of brainstorm results. The main problem is that many players can offer a lot of ideas and you basically will be flooded and easily can lost some brilliants in the sand. The way can be to define experts in players who ready for free to read and sort ideas and prepare it for devs.

Not a comminication topic but very important:
Problem in Vision
People who working in Arenanet is your main treasure.
1.If you have writer who can write bestseller – your story will be interesting, otherwise will be boring and gray, Medium problem now. Little be improved since story part 1, but most entertainment books still much more interesting than this living story
2. If you have great composer, each location in the game will create deep immersion. Small problem, most music in GW2 is good, but still can be more immersive because if you playing 2 years – music is too repetitive now
3. If you have designer and artist who can draw masterpiece, the game will looks like eye candy. Not a problem at all, you definetly have best artists and designers
4. If you have expert in player psyhology and game design – players will be happy. Definetly MAIN problem. The game currently unbalances in terms of effort/reward. Your at least should look more to other games to find and use their best ideas/solutions that players like. You should have proper comminication with your players too. But still you need best people who understand players psyhology
5. If you have best development team – code will be faster, reliable, easier to support and change, less bugs, but you know it Looks like you have very good team. Not a problem now
6. If you have super marketing team you can properly sell you product and finace p1-5. Marketing for new players is average, but ingame sales is not OK. Partially because p4. is not solved yet

So the suggestion is to focus on p4. and p1., also both define the direction where the game will move.

I played in most MMORPG during last 10 years and for the p4. I definetly have a lot of good and very simple ideas, but how to provide it to devs and be sure that somebody will read it?

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

Just pointing to this, maybe that helps some players to understand why Anet is struggling and why it is not really the developer’s fault. Pretty hard criticism towards the management and vision of the company. I just hope some of their managers actually read their company reviews.

I was pretty shocked to see they only have ~50 people… I thought Anet had like 300 people and had expectations for new features based on a 300 man strong team. Makes me appreciate the things that they do manage to pull off much more though, but also makes me a bit worried about the future.

It sounds like its definitely time to rethink the tight lipped company policies.

What are they getting you guys? Nothing but a frustrated, increasingly isolated playerbase.

Hold back some things, sure — but absolute silence about what the future holds just fuels the rumor mill and guarantees disappointment.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Merus,

Don’t worry I won’t.

Chris

Well played.

ColinJohanson.2394:

I think that’d be an interesting discussion, you’ll probably be surprised to find the “big” lists aren’t that different, it’s just that since we can’t share the projects we’re working on to solve them – it’s not clear we’re actually working on, or even aware of or worried about the issue. Worse, when people see work being done in other areas shipping rather than what seems like a core area, they assume no work is being done and no one is even aware of the other issue.

One of the problems you have is that you’re not able to go back to players to ask them about a specific point of contention that’s come up. For instance, let’s say someone’s developing more sophisticated commanding tools, and there’s an interface for people to click on a commander on the side and join their squad, and it’s easy to draw that list from all the commanders on all copies of that map, so people don’t have to do taxiing any more. Great! Except now TTS have no way of keeping out people who aren’t willing to get on TeamSpeak or follow instructions, so they have to turn off their commander tags to ensure people can’t taxi in and ruin things for them. What do TTS need to ensure that this is an upgrade for them? You could just ask them, but now you’re sharing implementation information about features in development and implicitly promising this functionality. The commander colour blowup, for instance, would have been easily prevented if the developer responsible could have put up a poll with various options for unlocking the functionality.

You’re also missing out on one of the core benefits of an agile methodology, that you can quickly change direction in response to stakeholder feedback. Adopting an agile methodology and then never talking to your stakeholders past the initial requirements gathering seems like a lot of wasted effort.

I don’t know about everyone else, but I don’t actually care that much about solutions in development as much as what problems are the most pressing. A list of ‘top problems’ or very general ideas of where attention is – “Orr”, for instance, would be fine – although you couldn’t put exploits on that list for obvious reasons. I think this’d work better if it varied between very general – i.e. new PvP mode – and very small – i.e. terrain exploits in dungeons, so that developers can move things around based on the sprint and so players can at least see that the developers haven’t been spinning their wheels instead of solving their pet problems.

I think also there’d be value on ‘cutting room floor’ posts where the people involved talk about projects that have been abandoned, and why they didn’t work out, as a kind of behind-the-scenes look. The disappointment of this cool thing that might have been coming would be offset by a better understanding of the design philosophy behind the game. that_shaman’s posts digging into cut content like unused voicework for Living Story sequences seem fairly popular. (Then again, I know Blizzard have struggled with announced features that were cut, and even explaining why they were cut didn’t help much.)

There is also the possibility of having a player-elected advisory council, similar to some other MMOs, that would be under an NDA. These players might be helpful focusing discussion for CDIs – or even running them, which they could probably do if they know what the priorities are and how far along certain features are. This might save valuable manpower, because the various player advisers can have their own ideas about how to run CDIs and the best approach will fall out of how the most effective CDIs are run.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

That doesn’t mean we haven’t been reading feedback. It does however mean we have lost our connection and honestly a lot of the team who care deeply about Arena and the community are to scared to post because let’s be honest forums in general can be quite toxic.

Many of them however play a lot, are in guilds and communicate in game where funnily enough due to ‘real time’ communication and less anonymity the conversations tend to be a lot less abrasive and more valuable to them.

I can see that posting on the forums can be a daunting task. People tend to be much harsher with their opinions on forums and that’s not going to change. Moderating can help but you cannot completely filter all toxic posts.

It’s admirable and very much appreciated that you talk to us using your real name and account. You are doing a great job! Keep on posting! But at the same time not everyone can do that (I couldn’t at least) and I don’t think they even have to.

• Suggestion: Anonymous Dev Accounts/Posts

For the most cases generic PvP Developer or WvW Developer or even a custom tag such as Developer of Awesome Content Type Z would be enough. People like me just want to see a red post acknowledging that the topic has been read, preferably by someone who is working on the area of the topic. I would also imagine it to be much more relaxed way to get feedback. Just make sure to include some signature that states that the post is not a promise of anything and you are good to go!

Taushullu.6180:

• Suggestion: Anonymous Dev Accounts/Posts

I don’t like the idea that devs should risk their job by going behind their employer’s back. There needs to be found a solution which makes everyone happy. The teams aren’t that big and internally I think it’s probably quite clear who knows what and who works on what, so the risk seems quite high.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Taushullu.6180:

• Suggestion: Anonymous Dev Accounts/Posts

I don’t like the idea that devs should risk their job by going behind their employer’s back. There needs to be found a solution which makes everyone happy. The teams aren’t that big and internally I think it’s probably quite clear who knows what and who works on what, so the risk seems quite high.

Interesting perspective. I didn’t mean it to be a tool for backstabbing . It doesn’t have to be anonymous internally just the post seen by the masses could have the name hidden.

Astral Projections.7320:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

and honestly a lot of the team who care deeply about Arena and the community are to scared to post because let’s be honest forums in general can be quite toxic.

Not only does posting on the forums take time away from your regular job, it’s also a potential minefield because it’s not what you are trained for and it’s easy to make mistakes.

That’s why imo your team could use an a Forum Liaison. Someone who comes on the forum at set intervals, takes questions and gets back with the answer. This will give the people the information they seek while insulating the Devs from some of the more toxic and inflammatory remarks.

If the Devs come to the forum and speak, they are a lightning rod for all the discontented people to post and be rude. A Liaison won’t have that problem since they are an intermediary, not the person who is doing what is making people upset.

Agreed. If communicating with the customers is not the devs’ job and they are afraid or unwilling to do so, then whose job is it, or is communicating actually not a priority at all? I don’t see why we can’t play it both ways, infract/edit posts which are disrespectful, AND have a person or persons whose actual job it is to communicate.

However if the policy about the first rule of Guild Wars 2 being you can’t talk about Guild Wars 2 is going to stay in force, then it’s largely moot, and Anet staff may as well just ignore the forums all together, or even close them down.

I wasn’t sure about those glassdoor reviews I saw posted above but after taking a look at it it’s really quite interesting. Reviews (I looked at the latest ones in Jul/Aug 14 are really positive and the cons are elaborated quite constructive and aren’t hopeless at all. It seems that communication is THE big problem in the company, not only communication between players and devs but also internally.

I really hope they find an experienced pro in that area who can help the company in that department. Reading those glassdoor reviews Anet seems a really great place to work anyway, I wouldn’t have expected this when I think about all the frustration the devs must experience when interacting with “the internet”.

Now I know I take a risk posting this, but seeing this thread is about communication, it just has to be said… and seeing how I see how the concept of “the authority figure determines the atmosphere, and sets the example”. It is even more apparent that at least some-one has to point this out. It may as well be me…

So I do hope that Chris will take a moment to walk away from his computer, get a drink, and drop out of ‘respond’ mode, before he reads this…

Please note that this is not a personal attack, you are entitled to your personal opinion, but I just have to warn you about how you express yourself, and the example it sets…

Gene Archer.8560:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

and honestly a lot of the team who care deeply about Arena and the community are to scared to post because let’s be honest forums in general can be quite toxic.

I’m sorry, Chris, but this is neither a good nor acceptable reason to avoid the forums.

I work right now as pizza delivery. It really, really sucks. You can be delivering in a snowstorm, be two minutes late, and the customer won’t care.

….snip…

And that’s for a lowly pizza delivery job. You guys are so much higher up on the food chain.

Doesn’t it strike you as a little odd that the lowly pizza guy is being held to far higher customer interaction standards than the large corporation that has a critically acclaimed video game?

Ashen.2907:

Do you do all of that for your customers on your free time? Off the clock? Does the accountant or payroll person at your company’s corporate HQ drive out to the customer’s house to apologize?

I ask because dev posts on the forums are not part of their work-load. They do it on their own time. The forums are not part of their job. It is perfectly reasonable for someone who is not paid to interact with often irate or rude customers to opt to not volunteer their free time to do so.

You took a customer service job, and work directly with customers. Developers are not customer service reps any more than are assembly workers at a Nike factory.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

You put it much better than me.
Chris

Realy Chris? You do realise that there are objective smart people reading this thread, and forming an opinion on how Anet views their fans right?

Not only that, but you also do realize what kind of response you validate here, as far as respect goes on the forum, as well as what is ‘acceptable behavior’… And it’s not just that I find your stance here rather offensive… but…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

ToaLux.6478:

Geez, I love all of Chris’s sassy answers—he takes the words right out of my mouth half the time

I have no clue how you guys can slog through all the gunk here to find the constructive posts, but I really do appreciate the simple existence of this thread!

Sorry if they are coming across as sassy. just trying to be honest and a bit more human and less water of a ducks back as many of you have said i should try harder with.

It is actually much less frustrating to just say it like i see it. I hope though that this approach is taken in the spirit it is intended and not in a negative way.I tend to be like this on CDIs.

Chris

ToaLux.6478:

Pff, no! They’re brilliant! Haha, I love reading how bluntly honest they are
Believe me: I certainly do not take them negatively; I also think most others would agree with me. Keep it up!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good because i am honestly not trying to be a naughty junior feline.
Chris

In a position where you represent authority you might have to try a little harder, you set the example, set the bar of ‘the acceptable’. It comes with the territory, and you need to be aware of it, every time you choose to respond, you will have to weigh your words before you click that [reply] button. You may not be able to change the tune on the forums, but validating it is even worse …

I’ll probably be infracted for this post, heck I may even be banned for a while, but there was nothing in that guys post that disserved that response, nor your validation of it. He was basically saying, “if you provide a service you will need to listen to your customers or you will go out of a job + shouldn’t higher ups be held to a higher standard?”. And he dang right, regardless of whether ‘you’ put time in here, that is your choice. But when you do, please realize from what position you do so, and with which consequences/rule-set that comes… you make your own community, set the standards, and get the one you disserve…

dlonie.6547:

It sounds like its definitely time to rethink the tight lipped company policies.

What are they getting you guys? Nothing but a frustrated, increasingly isolated playerbase.

Hold back some things, sure — but absolute silence about what the future holds just fuels the rumor mill and guarantees disappointment.

In comparison, some other MMO I won’t mention always announce what they are coming up with next. As soon as a release is out.

Gene Archer.8560:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

and honestly a lot of the team who care deeply about Arena and the community are to scared to post because let’s be honest forums in general can be quite toxic.

I’m sorry, Chris, but this is neither a good nor acceptable reason to avoid the forums.

I work right now as pizza delivery. It really, really sucks. You can be delivering in a snowstorm, be two minutes late, and the customer won’t care. And they will berate you, withhold a tip, and complain to your manager.

And we take it. And we apologize, and we give them a free pizza and try to make the delivery a better experience next time. Because that person is a customer, and no matter how kittenty they are to us, we need their business.

….snip…

And that’s for a lowly pizza delivery job. You guys are so much higher up on the food chain.

Doesn’t it strike you as a little odd that the lowly pizza guy is being held to far higher customer interaction standards than the large corporation that has a critically acclaimed video game?

Ashen.2907:

Do you do all of that for your customers on your free time? Off the clock? Does the accountant or payroll person at your company’s corporate HQ drive out to the customer’s house to apologize?

I ask because dev posts on the forums are not part of their work-load. They do it on their own time. The forums are not part of their job. It is perfectly reasonable for someone who is not paid to interact with often irate or rude customers to opt to not volunteer their free time to do so.

You took a customer service job, and work directly with customers. Developers are not customer service reps any more than are assembly workers at a Nike factory.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

You put it much better than me.
Chris

Realy Chris? You do realise that there are objective smart people reading this thread, and forming an opinion on how Anet views their fans right?

Not only that, but you also do realize what kind of response you validate here, as far as respect goes on the forum, as well as what is ‘acceptable behavior’… And it’s not just that I find your stance here rather offensive… but…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

ToaLux.6478:

Geez, I love all of Chris’s sassy answers—he takes the words right out of my mouth half the time

I have no clue how you guys can slog through all the gunk here to find the constructive posts, but I really do appreciate the simple existence of this thread!

Sorry if they are coming across as sassy. just trying to be honest and a bit more human and less water of a ducks back as many of you have said i should try harder with.

It is actually much less frustrating to just say it like i see it. I hope though that this approach is taken in the spirit it is intended and not in a negative way.I tend to be like this on CDIs.

Chris

ToaLux.6478:

Pff, no! They’re brilliant! Haha, I love reading how bluntly honest they are

Believe me: I certainly do not take them negatively; I also think most others would agree with me. Keep it up!

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Good because i am honestly not trying to be a naughty junior feline.
Chris

In a position where you represent authority you might have to try a little harder, you set the example, set the bar of ‘the acceptable’. It comes with the territory, and you need to be aware of it, every time you choose to respond, you will have to weigh your words before you click that [reply] button. You may not be able to change the tune on the forums, but validating it is even worse …

I’ll probably be infracted for this post, heck I may even be banned for a while, but there was nothing in that guys post that disserved that response, nor your validation of it. He was basically saying, “if you provide a service you will need to listen to your customers or you will go out of a job”. And he dang right, regardless of whether ‘you’ put time in here, that is your choice. But when you do, please realize from what position you do so, and with which consequences/rule-set that comes… you make your own community, set the standards, and get the one you disserve…[/quote]

I agree since they are developers they should “watch what they say” i.e nothing hurtful or abusive but I think your taking it to an extreme. I like to know that the person that is reading and communicating with me is not a computer but a person who also FEELs hurt when people attack him and shows emotions happy/sad from comments. What gives us the right to attack and expect them to take it in the chin? They are humans too and we should be glad that they are even talking to us! Cant say the same with other companies.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Sorry that should say: “Our company policy is not to talk about what’s in development”.-CJ

Policies can change and right now would be a good time to try and get this one changed to help stop the bleeding. I think it’s a huge mistake not to give your customers some hope. You can do so without divulging details, just let people know in general what major things are coming if not by the time you are ready to talk about them there may not be a whole lot of people around to hear the news.

With SO MANY comments on this I am starting to understand the view points of many players maybe there is a middle ground where just enough information is released that both sides can feel comfortable.

ipan.4356:

I cannot play “anything” and get Citadel skins.

To get those, I have to platy Citadel.

You mean the dungeon skins? No you cna’t buy them directly, but you can buy dungeon paths to complete your armor.

@Zoso, that is the double edged sword here … I would prefer a much less toxic atmosphere to begin with, where all dev’s feel welcomed to speak and share thoughts. That starts somewhere … but what surely doesn’t help is validate a toxic post …

And people should basically ignore an attack, or reduce impact of it by responding clear and sane to the possible valid points raised in it. Not go in a counter attack mode, further fueling the debate into an emotional one.

And I’m sorry but I don’t want to know if a person feels hurt, that is not a reason to communicate to anyone once you get past high-school. The thing that is important is whether or not the other person understands you, regardless if (s)he agrees.

And also, and it’s unfortunate, and I wouldn’t have said that above, but once Chris has a red tag on, he is no longer Chris… He is an authority figure from Anet, I mean, do you really think Chris would get all these suck up posts if he were just some normal person here? No… of course not… But with that also comes that people have a right to their opinion and voice criticism, as long as it is formulated in a respectful manner. That is the standard we are going for here right?

Well that Pizza delivery guy didn’t cross any lines, he was respectful and merely asked the question if Christ thought it to be weird that he had to be friendly and keep talking when he faces a customer as ‘a service provider’, and people from a gaming company also providing a service, were not… Legit question from my objective pov… That response from the Dev defence fanclub on the other hand, had so much ‘just kitten you simple pizza guy’ draped between the lines that it should just be ignored, like a lil kid throwing a fit for not getting a cookie b4 supper. Let alone see it validated…

Because in a sense the Pizza guy was right, it’s the reason we have this thread right? Because we think Anet needs to communicate more/better. (so that is point one). The other being, ‘are they held to a higher standard’, YOU BET! … Anet staff set the bar to what is acceptable, they express themselves in the way they want to be addressed to themselves… etc. and so on… so really, they are held to a higher standard than Joe Scrubby that customer that can just blab w/e, as long as he doesn’t cross the lines… which lines? well those set by ANet… see how that works…

And indeed, ANet has done a great job in the past, sometimes it slips a bit, but they do Care! As shown by their actions, and as long as you are actually willing to see that they do! … other companies aren’t always the same, depends a lot about the market they are in. But regardless, a company may be able to ignore their customer… yet, lowering oneself to the level of the customer is never an option! At least not in the companies I worked for in the customer service department, that respected themselves and their consumers.

I’m not sure if I take it to the extreme, I just feel very strongly about this, I have seen this spiral out of control in the case of mod behaviour on sites. And I have had numerous discussions about this ‘at work’, where w/e a customer says, you answer their questions with a and pretend they are the best and most friendly customers you ever faced. I’m sorry but that is just how it works, and should work! Because what do you think communication will turn out if there isn’t somebody setting the standards and upholding them?

style.6173:

@HHR LostProphet,

I agree with most everything you wrote except for the “buy anything” comments. I actually think this is the best part of the game and aligns well with the original manifesto. It allows people to play the game the way they want. The worst MMO games are when you have to farm a dungeon 500x to hopefully get some gear you want. That is not fun. I prefer the gw2 approach.

I am partially agreeing with you. Ofcourse, being able to buy something is better than grinding for it endlessly. But I tend to disagree with you that being able to buy everything is good. Take the Arah armor as example. Usually this armor stands for you
having completed the most difficult dungeon in the game. But since you can buy dungeon paths, the armor only shows that you probably got enough gold to afford buying paths. Another example is the legendary. The legendary usually stands for you investing a lot of time in this game. But it only stands for you having the pocket money to buy it from the traiding post.
Items get devaluated because they can be bought for gold.

Bri.8354:

Amazing post by HHR LostProphet.

Another issue I feel is within the spirit of his post, is universal profession design and balance. Each game format has very different game-play mechanics and goals, yet the professions share the same skills between every format and balance patches are for the most part universal.

Building around 5v5 PvP scenarios and trying to throw it into large scale combat (open world PvE, WvW) and dungeons has created a vast multitude of issues in those areas.

I don’t think each part of the game has different gameplay mechanics, or atleast, it shouldn’t have. Let’s look at a skilled opponent in PvP. He is using all his skills and pressuring you to get the upper hand. He would be the perfect PvE boss. Yet the bosses are slow, have almost no real mechanics and a giant health pool to make up for that. I think that could be the greatest improvement in GW2, if PvE bosses would be hard to deal with, if they would attack fast and hard, if they would use invuln, blocks, dodges and conditions and if they would have only a small health pool. The fights would be over faster but way more challenging. If all mobs in PvE would behave somewhat intelligent, it would feel more like playing in PvP than in the current PvE.

Shakkara.2641:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/ArenaNet-Reviews-E255820.htm

Just pointing to this, maybe that helps some players to understand why Anet is struggling and why it is not really the developer’s fault. Pretty hard criticism towards the management and vision of the company. I just hope some of their managers actually read their company reviews.

I was pretty shocked to see they only have ~50 people… I thought Anet had like 300 people and had expectations for new features based on a 300 man strong team. Makes me appreciate the things that they do manage to pull off much more though, but also makes me a bit worried about the future.

You were correct about your ~300, unless they downsized alot.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/What-to-buy-with-800-gems/first#post1218058

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Personally I am looking forward to building a better bridge.
Chris

Gotcha, where?
Is it the Pirate one leading from Brisband Wildlands into the Maguma Wastes?

Sigh, I hate typing up a long post for discussion on a phone, only to lose it cause of connection….

Short version:
1. The policy needs a review, not a complete overhaul, but loosening of the rules about talking.

2. Instead of a state of the game, perhaps something like ‘coffee with the devs’, where its a post about what the majority of devs are talking about related to the game, or perhaps ideas that are floated about (note, not an actual feature coming, just talk).

3. For community, we need to be more respectful to devs that post, and not berate them. Politely disagree and counter argue, but don’t bite their heads off.

4. Also for community, need to police our own, drown out the trolls. Don’t become white knights (the devs are human and make mistakes, and defending every decision when one is flawed puts egg on your face), but rather if someone is stating false info or starting a rumor, call them out for it, not because its attacking anet, but for the simple reason they are wrong.

Shakkara.2641:

I was pretty shocked to see they only have ~50 people… I thought Anet had like 300 people and had expectations for new features based on a 300 man strong team. Makes me appreciate the things that they do manage to pull off much more though, but also makes me a bit worried about the future.

The part about 50 people I don’t really understand. You are aware that the reviews is not something that everyone in the company does, right?

Do you really think that every single one of those 300 are programmers? They have 300+ employees overall. That includes ALL employees, including moderators, cleaning staff, cooks, upper management and so on, not just programmers.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

ipan.4356:

I cannot play “anything” and get Citadel skins.

To get those, I have to platy Citadel.

You mean the dungeon skins? No you cna’t buy them directly, but you can buy dungeon paths to complete your armor.

“Buy dungeon paths” – what does that mean?

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Bri.8354:

Amazing post by HHR LostProphet.

Another issue I feel is within the spirit of his post, is universal profession design and balance. Each game format has very different game-play mechanics and goals, yet the professions share the same skills between every format and balance patches are for the most part universal.

Building around 5v5 PvP scenarios and trying to throw it into large scale combat (open world PvE, WvW) and dungeons has created a vast multitude of issues in those areas.

I don’t think each part of the game has different gameplay mechanics, or atleast, it shouldn’t have. Let’s look at a skilled opponent in PvP. He is using all his skills and pressuring you to get the upper hand. He would be the perfect PvE boss. Yet the bosses are slow, have almost no real mechanics and a giant health pool to make up for that. I think that could be the greatest improvement in GW2, if PvE bosses would be hard to deal with, if they would attack fast and hard, if they would use invuln, blocks, dodges and conditions and if they would have only a small health pool. The fights would be over faster but way more challenging. If all mobs in PvE would behave somewhat intelligent, it would feel more like playing in PvP than in the current PvE.

‘Lieutenant Kholer’.

What happened is that incompetent players (95%+ of people running Asc Cata) skipped Kholer nonstop. Then when the Spider Queen’s stacking exploit was fixed, the people who were unable to kill Kholer are now also unable to kill the Queen, so now nearly every party that clears SQ will hit Kholer for a fast kill.

He has summons, blocks, evades, uses CC on players, conditions, does very high damage, but has really bad HP.

Being someone who programs AI difficulty in games (the current project has normal enemies with identical skills and stats to the player party and sometimes outnumbers it, which can only be defeated by adapting situationally since the AI itself also adapts to the player’s actions), I can tell you one thing though. Regardless of how advanced your AI is (and current GW2 boss AI is bad), a player will eventually figure out how to break the intelligence efficiently if he does the fight enough times. My AI is unlikely to be broken since fights don’t repeat much in a cRPG, but put the same level of AI in an MMO, I guarantee you speedclearers will find the best solution and reduce the AI factor to nil within two months. Possibly a single day.

So far the way Anet’s been doing difficulty is to use a gimmick to make something undoable without coordination (think Tequatl and Triple Wurm) such that you need a critical mass of capable players to clear it. That solution, if applied to a 5-man dungeon, would probably make players completely skip the dungeon, instead (think AC path 2).

Arghore.8340:

@Zoso, that is the double edged sword here … I would prefer a much less toxic atmosphere to begin with, where all dev’s feel welcomed to speak and share thoughts. That starts somewhere … but what surely doesn’t help is validate a toxic post …

And people should basically ignore an attack, or reduce impact of it by responding clear and sane to the possible valid points raised in it. Not go in a counter attack mode, further fueling the debate into an emotional one.

And I’m sorry but I don’t want to know if a person feels hurt, that is not a reason to communicate to anyone once you get past high-school. The thing that is important is whether or not the other person understands you, regardless if (s)he agrees.

And also, and it’s unfortunate, and I wouldn’t have said that above, but once Chris has a red tag on, he is no longer Chris… He is an authority figure from Anet, I mean, do you really think Chris would get all these suck up posts if he were just some normal person here? No… of course not… But with that also comes that people have a right to their opinion and voice criticism, as long as it is formulated in a respectful manner. That is the standard we are going for here right?

Well that Pizza delivery guy didn’t cross any lines, he was respectful and merely asked the question if Christ thought it to be weird that he had to be friendly and keep talking when he faces a customer as ‘a service provider’, and people from a gaming company also providing a service, were not… Legit question from my objective pov… That response from the Dev defence fanclub on the other hand, had so much ‘just kitten you simple pizza guy’ draped between the lines that it should just be ignored, like a lil kid throwing a fit for not getting a cookie b4 supper. Let alone see it validated…

Because in a sense the Pizza guy was right, it’s the reason we have this thread right? Because we think Anet needs to communicate more/better. (so that is point one). The other being, ‘are they held to a higher standard’, YOU BET! … Anet staff set the bar to what is acceptable, they express themselves in the way they want to be addressed to themselves… etc. and so on… so really, they are held to a higher standard than Joe Scrubby that customer that can just blab w/e, as long as he doesn’t cross the lines… which lines? well those set by ANet… see how that works…

And indeed, ANet has done a great job in the past, sometimes it slips a bit, but they do Care! As shown by their actions, and as long as you are actually willing to see that they do! … other companies aren’t always the same, depends a lot about the market they are in. But regardless, a company may be able to ignore their customer… yet, lowering oneself to the level of the customer is never an option! At least not in the companies I worked for in the customer service department, that respected themselves and their consumers.

I’m not sure if I take it to the extreme, I just feel very strongly about this, I have seen this spiral out of control in the case of mod behaviour on sites. And I have had numerous discussions about this ‘at work’, where w/e a customer says, you answer their questions with a and pretend they are the best and most friendly customers you ever faced. I’m sorry but that is just how it works, and should work! Because what do you think communication will turn out if there isn’t somebody setting the standards and upholding them?

Again I agree with a lot of the things that you are saying makes complete sense and very well thought out. Like you I work in customer service and I know that when the customer is impolite you still have to smile and say please and thank you. Adding fuel to the fire is not a good way to go about in resolving the situation and true maybe it could have been done differently but when I am working I smile when I am NOT and I meet that same person in the street I have no obligation to smile and take the insult or rude behavior. He is doing this by choice and we should be grateful. Like you said we are trying to set a standard here in what is acceptable behavior and what isn’t and like you said as long as it is done in a respectful way then we can have a productive discussion. But with that same type of mindset then I guess it is a reason to communicate to anyone if someone’s feeling are hurt. I honestly did not take offense to the comment and even Christ said he was not trying to be offensive but honest. If i felt that it was an abusive post then i’d be right there with you commenting on how things should change. Again the whole point of this is to have a discussion with no “toxic” elements involved and I am truly happy that we both want the same thing a peaceful place to exchange ideas with the developers of the game that we ALL love and I think that is a very good thing.

pdavis.8031:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

phabby.8945:

Mike great to see the honesty and commitment to us here, so Ill be honest Go play with the boys they are way more important then us, we can wait till your Monday and if anyone thinks we can’t they don’t have kidds.

Woohho I see we have Regina popping in always a pleasure to see her on, Now if we get Gaile then what a party, be like the old days.

great impact Devs thanks for your time on the weekend now go relax looking like the next few weeks may become hectic in here with CDI and other communication

cheers Phabby

hi Phabby,

its all good, the boys are playing lego around mea nd we are chatting. Thanks for your concern though.

I think i might take the day off tomorrow though (-:

Chris

Yeah im with phabby on this one. Go be with your family. Much more important. If anyone who wants to say differently, well they can go take a long walk off pier 61. But we do greatly appreciate your time here with us. If its not too much to ask, I would greatly appreciate your look into this thread? Would love to hear your thoughts…if any. Thanks! !

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Improvised-CDI-thread/first#post4322881

Heh, replies like these just make me think the posters are all like “I’m not selfish like those other boo boo heads. Now give me a pat on the back and brownie points! Hopefully you’ll listen to me. -wide grin and sparklyteeth.gif-”

XD

Chris Whiteside.6102:

codiac.5642:

I just bought a spare character slot, number 9, on special, just in case there is a new class sometime … don’t waste my investment!

Nice try (-:

Chris

Well this is very disheartening…but then I’m also jumping to the conclusion that no plans for new classes or races are or will ever be in the works for the game -le sigh-

(self-aware spoiler: I realize I’m jumping to conclusions which could possibly be wrong at some point in the future)

My dreams of re-rolling my human Ranger as a Tengu (like it was suppose to be from the start) are dashed! If not that, I suppose I can still look forward to added horizontal progression in PvE and WvW maybe…-sparkly eyes-

ipan.4356:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

ipan.4356:

I cannot play “anything” and get Citadel skins.

To get those, I have to platy Citadel.

You mean the dungeon skins? No you cna’t buy them directly, but you can buy dungeon paths to complete your armor.

“Buy dungeon paths” – what does that mean?

You can simply open your LFG tool and look for sellers who sell paths. Or you simply do the dungeon by yourself, as I’ve said, dungeons are no real challange.

Hayashi.3416:

‘Lieutenant Kholer’.

What happened is that incompetent players (95%+ of people running Asc Cata) skipped Kholer nonstop. Then when the Spider Queen’s stacking exploit was fixed, the people who were unable to kill Kholer are now also unable to kill the Queen, so now nearly every party that clears SQ will hit Kholer for a fast kill.

Dungeons are considered as “endgame” of PvE. Thus, it’s not bad that players who aren’t able to beat the bosses can’t procede. It is however bad if players can simply skip those bosses. Kholer is a pretty bad example. Ofcourse, he is using multiple attacks, but that are only three different attacks. Alos, he can be dragged into a corner, like any other boss or mob. I would like to see reactive bosses, who try to dodge your hardest hitting attacks, who walk out of AoEs, who try to focus the squishies first. This would require a much more complex AI than we have now.

People need to be more realistic about Anets policies. You have to realize that Anet has technically talked about things in development and its been a mistake imo.

Precursor crafting is something that has been development for far too long, mainly because other systems have been put in place and some changed, like the rewards system. This is why precursor crafting was held back in the april patch from what I understand.

I think this is another problem I foresee with Anet, especially when I hear about “bigger projects” in the background. How can you develop big features or content alongside a game that is constantly changing in terms of features? Lots of revamps have already happened to the game in terms on systems like achievments/rewards/crafting/trait system.

hm thoughts thoughts thoughts…

Anet: We work on precursor crafting because we want to take out the rng factor to obtaining one
Us: Yeah, great!! Can’t wait.
Anet: (later) we had to scrap that feature because it doesn’t work with system xy
US: booo

alternative Anet answer: we had to scrap that feature but as you know it’s still a high priority for us to take out that rng factor here. We had to scrap it because… problem x, y, z.
Us: well that actually sounds like a legit problem.
Anet: yeah. We think that because there are that many problems with implementing that system we should admit having made a mistake by not implementing it in the first place.
Us: oh. Well this sounds like we’ll never see precursor crafting then???
Anet: We looked at what needed to be different to implement such a system from day1. We want you to get that epic experience so our teams are working on new legendaries with that in mind. We will put in parts of that new system for new craftable pieces (like the vine backpiece) and will collect your feedback about those. This will help us to find the most satisfying precursor crafting system that we can create for you (and us).

So admitting mistakes, acknowleding current problems and at the same time showing that the intentions to make someting out of it… even pointing to some smaller steps that will be done and collecting our feedback …

… I can’t think of how this would anger most of the playerbase.

SkylightMoon.2098:

People need to be more realistic about Anets policies. You have to realize that Anet has technically talked about things in development and its been a mistake imo.

Precursor crafting is something that has been development for far too long, mainly because other systems have been put in place and some changed, like the rewards system. This is why precursor crafting was held back in the april patch from what I understand.

I think this is another problem I foresee with Anet, especially when I hear about “bigger projects” in the background. How can you develop big features or content alongside a game that is constantly changing in terms of features? Lots of revamps have already happened to the game in terms on systems like achievments/rewards/crafting/trait system.

The employees of Riot always talk about what’s in development. No details tho’, but they are able to keep the interest of the players. The problem is that if a Riot employee says that something is being worked on, he can assure that it is actually being worked on. If ANet talks about things like precursor crafting, it’s more like “we plan to do this”.

Zoso.8279:

Again I agree with a lot of the things that you are saying makes complete sense and very well thought out. Like you I work in customer service and I know that when the customer is impolite you still have to smile and say please and thank you. Adding fuel to the fire is not a good way to go about in resolving the situation and true maybe it could have been done differently but when I am working I smile when I am NOT and I meet that same person in the street I have no obligation to smile and take the insult or rude behavior. He is doing this by choice and we should be grateful. Like you said we are trying to set a standard here in what is acceptable behavior and what isn’t and like you said as long as it is done in a respectful way then we can have a productive discussion. But with that same type of mindset then I guess it is a reason to communicate to anyone if someone’s feeling are hurt. I honestly did not take offense to the comment and even Christ said he was not trying to be offensive but honest. If i felt that it was an abusive post then i’d be right there with you commenting on how things should change. Again the whole point of this is to have a discussion with no “toxic” elements involved and I am truly happy that we both want the same thing a peaceful place to exchange ideas with the developers of the game that we ALL love and I think that is a very good thing.

Hey,
I’m kind of behind you in your initial message. The ‘toxic’ environment isn’t much of a good reason to avoid communicating. The forums really only feel that way if you take things seriously. Sure, take the idea exchange seriously, but you can distill that away from all the vitriol and emotions since this is all in text format…and if that message isn’t comprehensible, brush it aside and move on!

Hoping for a ‘toxic-free’ forum right now that the devs are replying to every post is futile. P’s and Q’s will come when the environment demands it, not because a couple of posters demand it.

Just remember, don’t take everything on a forum too seriously…and if you do, just know you can always step away from the thread for a while…and possibly come back and delete/edit your posts

HHR LostProphet.4801:

SkylightMoon.2098:

People need to be more realistic about Anets policies. You have to realize that Anet has technically talked about things in development and its been a mistake imo.

Precursor crafting is something that has been development for far too long, mainly because other systems have been put in place and some changed, like the rewards system. This is why precursor crafting was held back in the april patch from what I understand.

I think this is another problem I foresee with Anet, especially when I hear about “bigger projects” in the background. How can you develop big features or content alongside a game that is constantly changing in terms of features? Lots of revamps have already happened to the game in terms on systems like achievments/rewards/crafting/trait system.

The employees of Riot always talk about what’s in development. No details tho’, but they are able to keep the interest of the players. The problem is that if a Riot employee says that something is being worked on, he can assure that it is actually being worked on. If ANet talks about things like precursor crafting, it’s more like “we plan to do this”.

Theyve said more than that though. Anet’s said theyve actively worked on precursor crafting for a while. Not “planned” to do it. Its just something thats been in development for a long time and held back. Thats when people get upset, because of how long its taken. Thats not necessarily Anet’s fault id say.

Welp, HHR on page 12 pretty much summed up concisely the varying issues right now facing GW2. I am just going to echo and elaborate on his points too:

Grinding, Economy and Reward are quite a bit gold-centric:

Going forward, I was actually happy to see better design on shifting away from gold in the latest map Dry Top, which indicates that you guys see a need to create map specific content and rewards as opposed to having everything earned in the game centered around gold. But there still is a large amount of rewards in this game being a gold-sink, and most of the time, ONLY earned through a sink in gold. The biggest offender I think everyone here acknowledges is Precursors, and we already have threads upon threads discussing it so I won’t need to say anything more than that.

However, the biggest problem I feel is not necessarily gold as it is the diminishing buying power it has gone through for the last year or so. It is getting HARDER to afford legendaries, and I and many other veterans have quite the headstart on making the daily gold income dedicated players might do each day. I can’t even fathom how hard and long it would take new players to make the legendaries.

There are multiple ways to handle the situation, and I think we might need to take many of the steps now. One is to simply keep pressing forward with design like Dry Top and move away from gold currency, and for content with gold currency tied into it, either raise the buying power of players or create supply to counter the inflating market.

Content and Priorities:

I can understand (or at least attempt to) the difficulty in…making the difficulty of PvE content. I think you guys are on the right track with how you have been handling the Living Story, where achievements might tie to greater rewards if you play with ‘challenge mote’.

But I was extremely sad to hear the discourse with dungeons and resource allocation. I was even more surprised to hear that you guys were struggling to keep up with the demand, that it was in fact still the small(ish) staff since launch working to keep our beloved GW2 aloft.

It’s like having a high-class luxury cruise ship, with just about all the luxuries across the scope you can ask for. But if you go down below, you see a bunch of wooden boards holding the base of the ship in place, likely wobbling. ….I literally can’t do analogies, but I think you guys understand. I am impressed and worried, I hope you don’t have one network engineer with a desk and bed doing everything and not going home. With GW2 continuing to pick up speed (China Release OP) it’s time to start really expanding.

…I got a bit side-tracked, anyways in case it is unlikely that you cannot fill positions at this moment in time, it might be better to reaffirm priorities. There are probably around a dozen or more different things I can do on my Warrior right now that are considered end-game content. I would have said ‘three’ but then it would not be enough to say ‘PvE, SPvP, WvW’ would it? There are sub-sets to each one, and each and every single one of those subsets needs to have the appropriate amount of time invested to really help the game out.

Interesting thought, what if you guys made a sort of contest on the forum for a Dungeon Design from mapping, encounters, difficulty and mechanics and see what some of us come up with? Heck, I think I recall a thread or so of people proposing ideas for new world bosses.

…Just to reaffirm, every single person posting in this thread must care a great deal about the future of GW2, I think it is something we can all agree upon.

Thank you.

good morning Chris! Take your time, welcome back!

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Prysin.8542:

which in hindsight can be seen as a bad policy. Just look at the dissatisfaction on these forums, that policy is the sole cause of that. […]

I understand your point, but how would you suggest to prevent future outrages about features that get announced (like the precursor hunt) and possibly scrapped later on because it doesn’t meet Anets standards?

People will scream that they’d rather want a bad implementation than nothing at all, but this would lead to a game where half-baked stuff is implemented which would lower the quality of the game as a whole.

you dont, thats what it all boils down to. Yes you create expectations you dont fullfill, but many times its worse to create no expectations than to fail to meet one. Also explaining WHY you didnt meet expectations, and HOW you plan to meet them asap is a HUGE means of dealing with expectations that arent met.

The reality is that the announcement of the precursor scavenger hunt SAVED anet for many many many months. They had a big problem boiling, and knowing it was in the works HELPED anet and players grin and bear it because they had hope for the future. Never announcing that feature would have helped no one, and hearing peoples feedback about the concept probably helped anet scrap some ideas that they may have gone with if they didnt announce that idea.

precursor hunt announcement gave anet a lot more benefit than not doing it would have done, the results were bad because they didnt deliver, the results would have been worse had they said nothing about it 1 year ago, and we still had no solutions, or if they had gone forward with a system that all feedback that came from the announcement shows would be a bad answer.

short version, for arenanet, the precursor announcement was actually a way better thing than the current system would allow, even with its negative backlash.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

However a number of CDIs have had a major impact on the game from Living World Post Marionette to Feature Packs. We aren’t going to go into specifics of development schedule and I am sorry that this is tough.

Now, this is part of the problem. You say it did, but you can’t say how. Say how!

I’ll give you an example. Recently, a game was making overhaul changes to some characters. People were throwing around all sorts of great ideas, but I threw one too. In it, I said that one power or ability could increase the power of another set of abilities resulting in a wider power set usage. It allowed depth and synergy. Suddenly, when you used Power A, a whole set of powers became more powerful and more useful.

The developers did not respond with “That’s a good idea.” or “We’ll look into that.” They made the change, came back to the forums and said, “Bam! Your idea is now in the game. Look for it!”

You know what that did to me and to other players? We perked up immediately. It was clear that our feedback was directly changing gameplay. We knew something we’d done made it into the game. Personally, it made my character feel unique to me because I helped to make the character! More feedback flew in with such strangely cool ideas that people felt included in the game even more. One change. Might have already been in there for all we know, if it felt like we did it.

That is what could help. It doesn’t require being instant. You can say, “Ooh, I love that idea. I’m going to take that to someone and see if we can get that done.” If it can get done, “You got it! It’s in!” if not? “I wanted that in so much, but it’s just not doable. Sorry.” Then the players feel like even if they failed, they were involved somewhere, somehow, in the creation of the power of their character or the definition of what the character cannot do. They feel involved.

I wish the City of Heroes forums were still around. That gave is the template for how developers should interface with their community. You’re developers. We love talking to you guys because it makes us feel connected to the game on a deeper level. Talk to us like people. Joke with us, take our memes with you, etc. You do this some, but it’s really few and far between.

If you think our complaints about Necromancer are valid, jump in and say “You know, I personally agree with you. I’m going to see if I can get that changed. I can’t promise it’ll happen, but we’ll try.” You can even say, “I don’t think that Necro has a problem there, but I’ll bring it up to someone here and see what they think.”

I know you guys and ladies work. You have to do work, but part of your work is to make your players feel connected in a world of play that requires a player to feel connected at all times or else the world you create relies only on your ivory tower without any connection to the real problems. See: academia. Ivory towers.

And I keep harping on it, but ANet has got to get the gem store under control. I again point you to City of Heroes and how they used their store. You could get almost everything in the game in a relatively reasonable amount of time. The store was there as sort of a “if you want it, here it is” alternative. The Gem Store is literally the only place you can have some items at all and others within reason.

So while the developers are in their disconnected Ivory Tower, they’re putting things through the store that you can’t get anywhere else. That, to many people, looks disconnected and like the emphasis is not on developmental or quality. It’s on money. Make gems achievable in the actual game outside of gold. Make the items achievable. Make it feel like the gem store is just a side thing where you go if you want a look at a bunch of cool stuff. Stop making it a vital part of the game where you HAVE to go if you want a new outfit, a new armor, new pets, etc. One way to do this could be to have the items in the store a certain time then in the world after the initial release.

The point is, as I posted before, you gotta treat users as more than wallets. You gotta talk to users like people. Joke with us, laugh with us, take 30 minutes out of your day to reply to 2-3 threads either with content based on the game or just jokes and laughter. Join your community. Then you won’t have to push the gem store with “And you can get gold!” We will see you as people who we want to support so we’ll buy that useless, silly trinket in the store because it goes to help the developers we appreciate.

Finally, in today’s world, professionalism is dead. You’re wearing jeans and t-shirts to work. Unless you’re at the top of the ladder, you’re going polo and slacks. You guys don’t have to treat us like you’re in suits. Treat us like you’re in jeans. Be cool. Be fun. Be HUMAN.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

This said I personally feel that there is room for maneuver and a policy adjustment to be more inclusive.

I am really looking forward to seeing how the next CDI goes as that could lead to some more open discussion for sure.

I wonder if it’s even in our power to make policy adjustments possible in the future. The thing is: I don’t have the feeling that you devs don’t want to talk about your work, but that you aren’t allowed to… and I’m not sure if the person who is responsible for that policy is even interested in a change.

if you say it’s possible, I guess I have to trust you

snipped some stuff, leaving what I want to respond to.

…but when I am working I smile when I am NOT and I meet that same person in the street I have no obligation to smile and take the insult or rude behaviour…

…I honestly did not take offense to the comment and even Chris said he was not trying to be offensive but honest. If i felt that it was an abusive post then i’d be right there with you commenting on how things should change. Again the whole point of this is to have a discussion with no “toxic” elements involved and I am truly happy that we both want the same thing a peaceful place to exchange ideas with the developers of the game that we ALL love and I think that is a very good thing.

That’s all true, but like I said earlier, if Chris would have come here on his personal account, I would not have made the post ( maybe I worded that part a bit poorly ). But once he puts on that tag, even though he says a 100 times he is responding from his own home computer, he just isn’t by perception. It would be like you or me taking an envelope and paper with watermark from our work and writing the customer in our own time, how we personally think about how he addressed his problem… so ok this is somewhat overextending it, but you likely get what I mean, once he is ‘red’ he is Anet, and that comes with extra care in regards to how you address consumers/customers

Well I did take a bit of offense to it, and maybe you should too, there was a lot of passive aggression between the lines, and a lot of ‘well we should thank Chris on our bare knees for taking the time out of his busy schedule to talk to us, so stop attacking him’ … while he wasn’t really attacking him, nor any other dev. the way I read it he asked a legit question, and made an even more legit statement. But my problem isn’t so much with that response, it is with Chris validating that kind of response. with a ‘I couldn’t have said it better’… where I personally think he could have done a lot better:

“Whether it is good or an acceptable reason is rather objective. The thing remains that our dev’s have to do this in their own time, and you wouldn’t want to be faced with the attitude you face on delivery, in your personal time as well, right?

And we are pretty much held to the same standard when we do choose to communicate with you guys. We can’t just respond in the same emotional way that some of consumers comments are written in. We have to consider how ‘what we say’ comes across. Even if us staying friendly and understanding to your concerns could contribute just a tiny bit in how you voice your opinions to us, that might benefit us all. So we have to."

But I dunno, maybe it takes a few years of practice to learn how to communicate with customers, tell them how they are entirely right, yet still let them see where and why they are wrong (if they are). And be friendly and respectful all the way through… It’s dang hard, actually .. and just so much easier to just tell them how they were just stupid to do or expect x or y … Well seeing you worked in customer service, I am sure you know about the stuff we can only say in the coffee corner :P

cainejw.7142:

Now, this is part of the problem. You say it did, but you can’t say how. Say how!

Well it should be obvious for people who participated in the CDI and play the game.

I participated in the CDI about horizontal progression and we discussed map / zone rewards. This was what I suggested, dev-reply in the source-link:

Fill the existing maps with tons of things to do. I mean: tons and tons of things. And may these be just little things… the world has to feel more alive.

…and then combine this with progression. The more people find, the more they unlock. And the more they can unlock for others (in the sense of triggering new events).

summary: progression in specific zones via a huge variety of things to do (something for everyone – fighters, explorers, collectors, lore-lovers, treasure hunters,…………

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/29#post3445128

I very much feel like comments like this had a big impact on the creation of DryTop.
Just an example.

Mr Whiteside -

Well, After my question about the actual impact of the CDI’s it looks like several items have actually been implemented! Wonderful, I love being wrong at times. I have a couple suggestions that might make things make the next steps forward a bit easier on everyone.

o Please don’t feel the need to write a monograph wall-o-text review of the CDI accomplishments. I think a short bullet chart showing the implemented changes should be enough. Personally, I’m convinced based solely on the community response.

o I’m not sure I’d start another CDI based on my perception of your team’s current workload. Rather, I’d dust off the old summaries from prior events and somehow (magic?) give us a broad brush view of where we are and where we’re headed. The root cause of our problems is when, in the absence of information, we players begin to speculate wildly about the future.

In closing, I’d like to offer an apology for suggesting the Devs are off in a field picking flowers. That was untoward and I’m sure not the case. As a Systems Engineer living in the Silicon Valley my pressures are not your pressures; my methods are not yours.

All the best to you and yours

-M