Guild Wars 2

The thing that I had in mind when starting this thread was that the entire discussion was being shut down as off-topic in a thread that seems custom-made for the conversation, by the developer who made the promise in the first place.

There have been loads of people weighing in on what sort of compensation they’d like to receive, but at this point? I’d just like to see them get the conversation they were promised. When it first came up, I know that my first thought was some sort of title or maybe some marker in their home instance or even just an achievement stating their rank. But it’s less about the actual compensation than it is the communication, and I cannot stress this enough: communication that we were assured was coming.

People disappoint and let us down sometimes. It still sucks when it happens.

Guhracie.3419:

The thing that I had in mind when starting this thread was that the entire discussion was being shut down as off-topic in a thread that seems custom-made for the conversation, by the developer who made the promise in the first place.

There have been loads of people weighing in on what sort of compensation they’d like to receive, but at this point? I’d just like to see them get the conversation they were promised. When it first came up, I know that my first thought was some sort of title or maybe some marker in their home instance or even just an achievement stating their rank. But it’s less about the actual compensation than it is the communication, and I cannot stress this enough: communication that we were assured was coming.

People disappoint and let us down sometimes. It still sucks when it happens.

Here’s what I want:

Chris: “I’m sorry, I forgot I told you all that I would think about it and get back to you. After having thought about it here is what I concluded … The developers understand why you are upset and we will/will not reset levels in the future with/without compensation.”

The problem with them just saying they are sorry and telling us they won’t ever reset progress without compensation again, is that Anet has already gone back on some of their promises, especially on the fractals situation.

Before Fractured, they had said that they understood the situation with Dredge being too long. What did they do ? They put more mobs on patrols, changed some mechanics, and made it even longer/harder than before.
They told us the randomness of maps would be altered, so that there would be no more Cliffside + Dredge. In the end, it’s still possible to get the two, you even have more chances to get Dredge at the end if you get Cliffside at second.
They told us about fractal weapon boxes, then when people said there was a bug about them not dropping, they say: it will be the case for 51+.
I could go on, the list isn’t exhaustive…

After all that happened, it will be hard to trust them if all they do is just saying it.
Anyway, I fear they will just ignore this thread and just not reply to it ever… I hope I’m wrong.

Guys… still don’t get it?
I guess you have no experience with what’s going on right now between you and anet.
They’re doing the most basic and effective tactic of all. It’s like therapy. They’re the psychologist, and they make you talk…
… and talk…
… and talk…
… and talk…
… you share, you discuss, you throw tantrums, you complain and you cry. They listen to [some of] it, and go numb for the rest. When you’re done feeding your ego and your dissatisfaction, most of the time you’ll find a new toy to direct your attention and you’ll start seeing things in a different way. The good thing (for them) is that they can create those new toys. You won’t forget, but you’ll look at it differently.
It works. If you need to buy time, and they do. You’re all too passionate about the game to leave without a word anyway. In the meantime, the chances of them finding a new toy for you rises.
Or maybe they don’t give a kitten about you. Yeah, probably that.

deSade.9437:

Guys… still don’t get it?
I guess you have no experience with what’s going on right now between you and anet.
They’re doing the most basic and effective tactic of all. It’s like therapy. They’re the psychologist, and they make you talk…
… and talk…
… and talk…
… and talk…
… you share, you discuss, you throw tantrums, you complain and you cry. They listen to [some of] it, and go numb for the rest. When you’re done feeding your ego and your dissatisfaction, most of the time you’ll find a new toy to direct your attention and you’ll start seeing things in a different way. The good thing (for them) is that they can create those new toys. You won’t forget, but you’ll look at it differently.
It works. If you need to buy time, and they do. You’re all too passionate about the game to leave without a word anyway. In the meantime, the chances of them finding a new toy for you rises.
Or maybe they don’t give a kitten about you. Yeah, probably that.

I don’t even know where to begin with this comment. The alternative is to assume the worst and say nothing about what occurred. Even if you’re right and Anet does nothing, this still deserves to be heard by the community. With that being said, though…

Anet has a history of being one of the more responsive gaming companies. You’ll have to forgive me if I don’t share your extremely cynical view that my better option is to simply walk away.

Stop me if I say something terribly wrong.

Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.

When fractals got reworked and reset they did so for everyone, it was pretty much a new page, something unlike the thing before, so the old levels you might have had meant little or nothing.

What exactly would you want as compensation and why?

Dean Calaway.9718:

Stop me if I say something terribly wrong.

Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.

When fractals got reworked and reset they did so for everyone, it was pretty much a new page, something unlike the thing before, so the old levels you might have had meant little or nothing.

What exactly would you want as compensation and why?

Okay I’ll stop you at your first sentence.

When they first came out the hard cap was at 80. There was no soft cap. A few months down the road they placed a soft cap on level 50. But there were many individuals who had fairly gotten to level 80 by then. Don’t accuse people of cheating when you don’t know a kitty about the subject.

I’m not going to bother responding to your second paragraph because we have been over it before.

Right now we aren’t asking compensation because we know it’s too late. We want recognition and a developer to say “we understand it was not the best situation. We do not intend to do it again.”

Please read next time.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Stop me if I say something terribly wrong.

Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.

When fractals got reworked and reset they did so for everyone, it was pretty much a new page, something unlike the thing before, so the old levels you might have had meant little or nothing.

What exactly would you want as compensation and why?

Okay I’ll stop you at your first sentence.

When they first came out the hard cap was at 80. There was no soft cap. A few months down the road they placed a soft cap on level 50. But there were many individuals who had fairly gotten to level 80 by then. Don’t accuse people of cheating when you don’t know a kitty about the subject.

I’m not going to bother responding to your second paragraph because we have been over it before.

Right now we aren’t asking compensation because we know it’s too late. We want recognition and a developer to say “we understand it was not the best situation. We do not intend to do it again.”

Please read next time.

Show me a YouTube video with people going thru a lvl 80 fractal run without using any exploits.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Stop me if I say something terribly wrong.

Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.

When fractals got reworked and reset they did so for everyone, it was pretty much a new page, something unlike the thing before, so the old levels you might have had meant little or nothing.

What exactly would you want as compensation and why?

Okay I’ll stop you at your first sentence.

When they first came out the hard cap was at 80. There was no soft cap. A few months down the road they placed a soft cap on level 50. But there were many individuals who had fairly gotten to level 80 by then. Don’t accuse people of cheating when you don’t know a kitty about the subject.

I’m not going to bother responding to your second paragraph because we have been over it before.

Right now we aren’t asking compensation because we know it’s too late. We want recognition and a developer to say “we understand it was not the best situation. We do not intend to do it again.”

Please read next time.

Show me a YouTube video with people going thru a lvl 80 fractal run without using any exploits.

You could’ve either used res orbs from the cash shop to get past maw, or timed guardian tome properly, or used ranger pets.

Please, don’t be an kitten to people unless you fully understand the situation at hand.

Edit: Let me preempt your response. No, using ranger pets or res orbs or even guardian tome was not made an exploit until months later, when, as Lilith said, they changed the mechanism of Maw agony. Even then they still allowed you to do 50+ odd runs.

Edit again: FOTM patch released on November 16th, 2012. Here is a post 1.5 months later on December 30th asking if level 80 was the hardcap:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Fractals-cap-80/first

In that post it described how to get past agony:

There are 3 ways to deal with the agony:
1.Buy revive orbs
2.Use hunter’s pet to revive him
3.Use a Necro with it’s 2 health bars and 2 guardians with books healing him.
All 3 of them work just fine.The Maw’s agony is not hard at all when you have a decent party

If you look in that thread, not a single dev responded to Patrikan’s question. So the assumption is that because the game wasn’t programmed past 80, 80 was the hardcap. It wasn’t until months later that ANET said “sorry guys, we made an oopsy” and then changed how agony functioned fundamentally, but still left those levels OPEN.

Thanks for the assist, Nevets. (Last night after fractals bugged out on me I went to bed sad I didn’t get to see your awesome engi!)

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Stop me if I say something terribly wrong.

Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.

When fractals got reworked and reset they did so for everyone, it was pretty much a new page, something unlike the thing before, so the old levels you might have had meant little or nothing.

What exactly would you want as compensation and why?

Okay I’ll stop you at your first sentence.

When they first came out the hard cap was at 80. There was no soft cap. A few months down the road they placed a soft cap on level 50. But there were many individuals who had fairly gotten to level 80 by then. Don’t accuse people of cheating when you don’t know a kitty about the subject.

I’m not going to bother responding to your second paragraph because we have been over it before.

Right now we aren’t asking compensation because we know it’s too late. We want recognition and a developer to say “we understand it was not the best situation. We do not intend to do it again.”

Please read next time.

Show me a YouTube video with people going thru a lvl 80 fractal run without using any exploits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYrtfwlZdeE

You could’ve either used res orbs from the cash shop to get past maw, or timed guardian tome properly, or used ranger pets.

Please, don’t be an kitten to people unless you fully understand the situation at hand.

Edit: Let me preempt your response. No, using ranger pets or res orbs or even guardian tome was not made an exploit until months later, when, as Lilith said, they changed the mechanism of Maw agony. Even then they still allowed you to do 50+ odd runs.

I see you’ve edit your post, in the video I saw (not sure it’s still the same) it was the fire shaman, easiest boss and one you can’t stack behind something so it doesn’t look bad.

And I said run as in a full Run.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Stop me if I say something terribly wrong.

Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.

When fractals got reworked and reset they did so for everyone, it was pretty much a new page, something unlike the thing before, so the old levels you might have had meant little or nothing.

What exactly would you want as compensation and why?

Okay I’ll stop you at your first sentence.

When they first came out the hard cap was at 80. There was no soft cap. A few months down the road they placed a soft cap on level 50. But there were many individuals who had fairly gotten to level 80 by then. Don’t accuse people of cheating when you don’t know a kitty about the subject.

I’m not going to bother responding to your second paragraph because we have been over it before.

Right now we aren’t asking compensation because we know it’s too late. We want recognition and a developer to say “we understand it was not the best situation. We do not intend to do it again.”

Please read next time.

Show me a YouTube video with people going thru a lvl 80 fractal run without using any exploits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYrtfwlZdeE

You could’ve either used res orbs from the cash shop to get past maw, or timed guardian tome properly, or used ranger pets.

Please, don’t be an kitten to people unless you fully understand the situation at hand.

Edit: Let me preempt your response. No, using ranger pets or res orbs or even guardian tome was not made an exploit until months later, when, as Lilith said, they changed the mechanism of Maw agony. Even then they still allowed you to do 50+ odd runs.

I see you’ve edit your post, in the video I saw (not sure it’s still the same) it was the fire shaman, easiest boss and one you can’t stack behind something so it doesn’t look bad.

And I said run as in a full Run.

Easier than jellyfish? Have you ever entered FOTM?

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Easier than jellyfish? Have you ever entered FOTM?

Is there a point to this little remark besides catering your ego?

Now, to my original post:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Let me preempt your response. No, using ranger pets or res orbs or even guardian tome was not made an exploit until months later(…)

If it was made into an exploit IT WAS NEVER INTENDED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
My point stands and you just added to it.

Uh, like I said: it was never clarified until months after release that past level 50 wasn’t intended. The Maw agony blast wasn’t even added until they added the soft cap. You are wrong.

Edit: it just occurred to me that I’m totally playing into your hand. From here on I will not acknowledge anything you post as it is derived from a place of ignorance. You do not know or understand fractals.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Easier than jellyfish? Have you ever entered FOTM?

Is there a point to this little remark besides catering your ego?

Now, to my original post:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Let me preempt your response. No, using ranger pets or res orbs or even guardian tome was not made an exploit until months later(…)

If it was made into an exploit IT WAS NEVER INTENDED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
My point stands and you just added to it.

Ok. I’m going to do this one last time. This debate has been rehashed over and over in the fractured thread, which is now archived if you’re interested.

You wrote:

“Fractals use to go only till level 50, you could cheat your way up with exploits you could go higher, but you weren’t spouse to or it was never intended.”

Let’s separate the two concepts of “cheating/exploiting” and something not being “intended,” because they mean different things.

Cheating/exploiting happens when the player uses exernal software not condoned by the game, or uses terrain in such a way to skip content or trivialize content.

A player CAN cheat/exploit content in ways that the developer didn’t anticipate, but that doesn’t mean that everything the developer didn’t intend is cheating/exploiting.

For example, I’m sure the developers never thought that groups would beat Lupicus in sub 20 seconds, but groups have done it without cheating/exploiting. Lupicus is an Arah boss, by the way. You can YouTube the encounter.

Fractals of the Mists, at their inception, were advertised as having unlimited scaling. Unlimited means not limited, as in going on forever. When groups first got up to level 80, they did it using game mechanics, and not exploiting holes in the map/skipping content. They were able to use res orbs, or a well timed death shroud/guardian tome to surpass maw’s agony. It wasn’t necessary to cheat/exploit in any way.

When groups got to 80, the game would not let them progress further. Anet clearly designed scaling up to 80, and then their program stopped progression (ie. when players left the dungeon after completing level 81 or 82, they could only reenter at scale 80.) Thus, even though the developers advertised the dungeon as being unlimited, they had programmed a hard cap at level 80. When Patrikan asked the developers if level 80 was supposed to be a limit, they did not respond.

A few months later, the developers said, “woops, we didn’t intend people to go past 50, we thought the agony would stop progress.” That is a different statement than “groups exploited/cheated to go past 50.” If the developers really thought groups had exploited, bans would have been appropriate. No bans were handed out. It was developer oversight, NOT cheating/exploiting. Once again, these are different concepts.

Then, developers locked down level 50+ by making agony reapply, so even players that wanted to ACTUALLY cheat/exploit could not progress. However, they still left levels 50-80 accessible, so if players wanted to complete odd levels to progress, they could.

The problem was thus: The developers advertised an unlimited dungeon, players hit the coded limit (80), players asked the developers if this was intended, developers didn’t respond. A few months later developers said, “sorry guys, we thought maw’s agony would stop progression without AR, we’re going to change the way it works so players can no longer go past 50 on even levels.” Note that, they didn’t say, “players cheated/exploited to go past 50.” Players didn’t cheat or exploit. They didn’t use external programs, they didn’t glitch out of the map or move in ways not sanctioned by the terrain, they simply overcame the agony using normal gameplay in such a way that the developers had not considered. A lack of consideration is not the same thing as exploiting/cheating.

Edited some spelling.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

it just occurred to me that I’m totally playing into your hand. From here on I will not acknowledge anything you post as it is derived from a place of ignorance. You do not know or understand fractals.

Slander is the weapon of the defeated, you don’t know me to say such a thing.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Ok. I’m going to do this one last time. This debate has been rehashed over and over in the fractured thread, which is now archived if you’re interested.(…)

You’re just arguing semantics and playing on words.

On release you could buy things with karma and sell them for a big gold profit.
You could use a Mango Pie to win on Belcher’s Bluff when it was first introduced.
List goes on and on and on and on.
Hey, it was overlooked, its not doing anything bad right? Just a game mechanic.

You have to be seriously naive to think there was nothing wrong with using a revive orb or a couple of well timed profession specific skills to keep going.
Can you really say with a straight face you thought using a revive orb was an intentional game mechanic to progress on fractals?
What if I didn’t have one of those professions in my party?

Dean Calaway.9718:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

it just occurred to me that I’m totally playing into your hand. From here on I will not acknowledge anything you post as it is derived from a place of ignorance. You do not know or understand fractals.

Slander is the weapon of the defeated, you don’t know me to say such a thing.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Ok. I’m going to do this one last time. This debate has been rehashed over and over in the fractured thread, which is now archived if you’re interested.(…)

You’re just arguing semantics and playing on words.

On release you could buy things with karma and sell them for a big gold profit.
You could use a Mango Pie to win on Belcher’s Bluff when it was first introduced.
List goes on and on and on and on.
Hey, it was overlooked, its not doing anything bad right? Just a game mechanic.

You have to be seriously naive to think there was nothing wrong with using a revive orb or a couple of well timed profession specific skills to keep going.
Can you really say with a straight face you thought using a revive orb was an intentional game mechanic to progress on fractals?
What if I didn’t have one of those professions in my party?

This is why “semantics” are important. I never said that some things the developers didn’t intend could not be construed as cheating/exploits. I said they are different concepts.

Think of developer “intention” as a class, and the subclasses are “legitimate gameplay” or “cheating/exploiting.”

You can have things the developers didn’t intend that fall under either category. I wrote that in my post above.

You wrote:

“You have to be seriously naive to think there was nothing wrong with using a revive orb or a couple of well timed profession specific skills to keep going.”

So it’s naive to believe that the developers meant it when they said Fractals were unlimited?

If there was something wrong with it, why were people not banned?

Progressing in the unlimited dungeon that the developers said was unlimited using normal game mechanics is not exploiting/cheating. If it was, the burden of proof is on you to show where and when the developers indicated that it was cheating/exploiting. They didn’t, because it wasn’t. Also, when people ASKED if it was, the developers gave no response.

Also, people have this tendency to shout “semantics” as if that is a substitute for a good argument. Words have meaning. Please use them properly.

++ to Nevets for fighting the good fight. Very well said.

But hell, even the reset from 50 without any compensation is a slap to the face, considering PvP and WvW’ers get something when they’re reset.

maxinion.8396:

++ to Nevets for fighting the good fight. Very well said.

But hell, even the reset from 50 without any compensation is a slap to the face, considering PvP and WvW’ers get something when they’re reset.

I second this.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

(…)
Also, people have this tendency to shout “semantics” as if that is a substitute for a good argument. Words have meaning. Please use them properly.

I used the right words, no edits on my posts, you on the other hands are trying desperately to play words to get things your way, and you aren’t even that good at that so I’d suggest you shouldn’t try to win this on a technicality.

My original point stands, you couldn’t go past 50 without serious bending.
And the core of the matter was, the reset.
After the rework they reset because it was something “different”, what propose would it serve having a level you didn’t climb up to under the new system?

A revive orb or a few (and I cannot stress this enough) profession SPECIFIC skills could never be considered a normal intended and ONLY way to beat content.
So either people did it consciously, or like I said, naively.
Frankly, your insistence is just making you look bad, not me, if you seriously thought there was nothing wrong with it, you were naive, which is strange since you’re trying so hard right now to look clever.

Lastly, people weren’t banned over that because it would be plain stupid to do so.
Just like they aren’t banned for so many other things they do in game that eventually gets fixed.
There are plenty of people that never got a ban even after they exploited the karma for gold.
Don’t try to dress that as some sort of evidence on your little case.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

(…)
Also, people have this tendency to shout “semantics” as if that is a substitute for a good argument. Words have meaning. Please use them properly.

I used the right words, no edits on my posts, you on the other hands are trying desperately to play words to get things your way, and you aren’t even that good at that so I’d suggest you shouldn’t try to win this on a technicality.

My original point stands, you couldn’t go past 50 without serious bending.
And the core of the matter was, the reset.
After the rework they reset because it was something “different”, what propose would it serve having a level you didn’t climb up to under the new system?

A revive orb or a few (and I cannot stress this enough) profession SPECIFIC skills could never be considered a normal intended and ONLY way to beat content.
So either people did it consciously, or like I said, naively.
Frankly, your insistence is just making you look bad, not me, if you seriously thought there was nothing wrong with it, you were naive, which is strange since you’re trying so hard right now to look clever.

Lastly, people weren’t banned over that because it would be plain stupid to do so.
Just like they aren’t banned for so many other things they do in game that eventually gets fixed.
There are plenty of people that never got a ban even after they exploited the karma for gold.
Don’t try to dress that as some sort of evidence on your little case.

first off
the reset wasnt to level 50, it was to level 30.
Even if you think +50 was exploit, +30 was not.

2nd of all(for level 50+), players directly asked if it was an exploit, no one responded. Even when they changed the maw, they didnt hardcap it.

3rd of all, i was infracted by ANET staff for calling it an exploit, this mean ANET doesnt consider it an exploit. I challenged this infraction, a different mod reviewed it, and upheld it.

now, level 50+ aside, you may not have done fractals much so ill let you know, runs from 31-50 tend to take about 1-1.5 hours for a good team. (longer than it takes to get a level) thats about 20-30 hours at best.
level 31-50 was wiped, it was not an exploit.

now you might say, but why should you get access to new levels for what you did in the past? Well turns out fractals 31-50 are not any harder to climb, you can do an agony instability fractal over and over i think its 49. the scaling is actually easier than it used to be, essentially they thought the high dmg/high hp scaling was too hard. regardless if it was or was not it means people who got to 50 before had the proven skills to get to 50 again, so really they just lost time.

So yeah, I think the whole issue was caused by poor communication on ANETS part months ago.
When people asked if it was an exploit, the response should have been. Yes, we didnt intend you to get that high, think of anything past 50 as beta, and you may get your levels reset later

but even that doesnt explain the 31-50 issue.

heres why they reset it.
they thought it would be fun to climb again, and didnt view fractal levels as progress
they felt level 50+ was too hard for average players, and too monotonous to have to go through to get to new content(if it was 51-70 few would ever see it)
they didnt have the time or desire to implement new seperate systems for instabilities.

problem is, none of this is a good reason to actually delete players progress without something. I understand things have to change to evolve the game, but this wasnt really an evolution, all of the problems that popped up now with instabilities and scaling and player leveling were COMPLETELY predicted before the patch even hit.
everything from skipping instabilities
useless leaderboards people reach in 2 days
people who are already level 50 having to re walk an easier road for no reason.

and even if you have a good new evolution, its a bad idea to wipe peoples progress in a progress oriented game mode. build a new system that more accurately represents the functionality and put it alongside the other one.

But most of all regardless what you do COMMUNICATE to your clients, and thats the biggest failure of all. most of the issue is that anet still hasnt said whether wiping peoples progress who dont exploit is something they think they should do. AND they dont communicate on what is and is not unintended behavior, or what they will do when it pops up

Dean Calaway.9718:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

(…)
Also, people have this tendency to shout “semantics” as if that is a substitute for a good argument. Words have meaning. Please use them properly.

I used the right words, no edits on my posts, you on the other hands are trying desperately to play words to get things your way, and you aren’t even that good at that so I’d suggest you shouldn’t try to win this on a technicality.

My original point stands, you couldn’t go past 50 without serious bending.
And the core of the matter was, the reset.
After the rework they reset because it was something “different”, what propose would it serve having a level you didn’t climb up to under the new system?

A revive orb or a few (and I cannot stress this enough) profession SPECIFIC skills could never be considered a normal intended and ONLY way to beat content.
So either people did it consciously, or like I said, naively.
Frankly, your insistence is just making you look bad, not me, if you seriously thought there was nothing wrong with it, you were naive, which is strange since you’re trying so hard right now to look clever.

Lastly, people weren’t banned over that because it would be plain stupid to do so.
Just like they aren’t banned for so many other things they do in game that eventually gets fixed.
There are plenty of people that never got a ban even after they exploited the karma for gold.
Don’t try to dress that as some sort of evidence on your little case.

You’re wrong, but let me argue this in your terms.

The developers said that at release they only thought people would get up to level 50. You may not have been around at release, but at that time you could only have up to 30 agony resistance. With 30 agony resistance, you still had to either:

a. Use a necro/guard
b. Use a ranger
c. Use res orbs

To get to level FORTY NINE. So to get to the devs INTENDED level, you STILL had to use those methods at release.

Also, I can’t verify this so take it with a grain of salt, but Patrikan wrote:

“Stigma.7869:
I’d like to point out that a lot of the theories people have on how to do this simply are theories and don’t work. State your level before trying to give a solution to a problem you don’t understand.
The only 3 concepts that are known to actually work are: Search and Rescue, 95-99% Revival, and Revive Orb. All those methods are not considered as “legitmate” ways to beat the Agony here are are just smart solutions us players have employed.
Firstly, there is no “Cool down” timer to the Agony attack… don’t even know why someone would say that. It triggers when you start the two specific phases of the boss fight.
Secondly, the Jade Maw agony is a Trigger Event that happens when you pass into the Jade Maw stage (or jump onto the first block of the stage). If by some reason you teleported or reconnected and start back at the beginning of the instance or before that block and try to re-enter it again, the Triggered Agony will hit you again (Even if u already got hit previously).
I’m surprised there has been no developer comment on this yet. Or has Anet really expected PvE players to buy Revive orbs all the way for a “legitimate” method of getting through Fractal 40-81”

Not true as I stated there are ways with rez ppl up and loads of healing power to survive agony till 70 .. still why can’t they say if 80 is the cap or if they gonna make changes to fractals cap 80 in upcomming patch I still would like to see a dev to say if
80 is cap ?
cap will be raised with next updates?"

He was saying that pre-patch people could get to 70 with cleric healing gear and proper use of healing (probably blast finishers?)

So it may have been possible to get to 70 without either of those three methods.

Even if those three methods were the only way to level up however, they were also the only way to beat the 40s at release (because maw agony would wipe the party with 30 AR) which ANET said they DID intend.

I’m reporting any post accusing people of using exploits to reach level 80 in fractals. I strongly encourage people to ignore these accusations, because I don’t want to get mired in something that is entirely irrelevant to the topic and have my thread locked.

If you would like to discuss whether or not people above level 50 prior to the reset were guilty of using exploits, I’d like to suggest you read the ToS very carefully and then start your own thread if you think it is appropriate to do so. Do not derail the topic here.

Guhracie.3419:

I’m reporting any post accusing people of using exploits to reach level 80 in fractals. I strongly encourage people to ignore these accusations, because I don’t want to get mired in something that is entirely irrelevant to the topic and have my thread locked.

If you would like to discuss whether or not people above level 50 prior to the reset were guilty of using exploits, I’d like to suggest you read the ToS very carefully and then start your own thread if you think it is appropriate to do so. Do not derail the topic here.

Sorry Guhracie! <3

By the way I didn’t realize until yesterday where I recognized your name from.

It’s interactions like this from the devs that undo all the good will that having a CDI earns them. Frankly, it makes the CDI look like a sham. What’s the point in trying to “collaborate” with players if at the same time you are unwilling to speak openly and honestly about whether something so simple as “I will check with him” actually means you are going to do so and report back what he says?

I would like to believe that there is truly no ill will or intent to withhold information on the part of the devs, and in fact the reason we don’t hear more on issues like this is because someone higher on the food chain explicitly ordered them not to talk. But if that’s the case, again, what is the benefit of trying to collaborate with someone who can’t decide for themselves what is worth contributing to the conversation? Maybe the person who is free to make these decisions for himself/herself is the one who should be running the CDI threads and communicating directly with the customer. I say this because if this were a real world business such as a hotel, restaurant, or other type of service provider, this is about the time I’d be saying, “I’d like to speak to your manager.”

phys.7689:

first off
the reset wasnt to level 50, it was to level 30.
Even if you think +50 was exploit, +30 was not.(…)

First off, I never said they reset it to 50.

So when you’re done assuming things you can start wrapping your head around the concept of a big company where people can’t talk without PRs and red tape and made a decision they thought it was best.

What would have been the difference if they reset it back to 50 instead when you said it yourself, people can fairly easy get there?

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

You’re wrong, but let me argue this in your terms.

The developers said that at release they only thought people would get up to level 50. You may not have been around at release, but at that time you could only have up to 30 agony resistance.(…)

I bought the game at launch, so I was very much around.

You’re still hanging over this and throwing your tantrum because I mention that fractals were never spouse to go beyond level 50 in the first place, thats really tripping you isn’kitten
Still hanging on “but the devs said unlimited”, they say a lot of things don’t they? Want me to list some of them that never got to be or you wanna start being a grown up about this?

Again, to the POINT of the thread (by the way to who ever may this concern, reporting can back fire if the reported is not actually violating ToS), the reset and the compensation, the whole point of this thread, which is what I was discussing in my first post.

They made it into something “different” and reset the levels, what did you want?
Stay on a level that wouldn’t have been acquired under the new mechanics?
You should consider yourself lucky it wasn’t all the way back to 10 or 1.
And what would the compensation be exactly? Maybe some loot, for people to say “not good enough loot”?
What would be fair?

As simple as a title. Or a town clothes shirt that said “I got to fractal level x and all I got was the tshirt”. Again if you actually read the thread this has already been answered. But the real thing we want is for them to say “we aren’t going to do this again.” At the moment with this whole sham “evolution of fractals” our levels are still in jeopardy and they could and might do it again in 6 months. That’s why we aren’t shutting up about this. We do not want it to happen again. Is that so wrong?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

As simple as a title. Or a town clothes shirt that said “I got to fractal level x and all I got was the tshirt”. Again if you actually read the thread this has already been answered. But the real thing we want is for them to say “we aren’t going to do this again.” At the moment with this whole sham “evolution of fractals” our levels are still in jeopardy and they could and might do it again in 6 months. That’s why we aren’t shutting up about this. We do not want it to happen again. Is that so wrong?

Weren’t they gonna get rid of towns clothing? Pretty ironic if i got a shirt that they would take away later ha-ha, to me fractals was dead once they kitten blocked 50. Fractured was a massive fail.

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

As simple as a title. Or a town clothes shirt that said “I got to fractal level x and all I got was the tshirt”. Again if you actually read the thread this has already been answered. But the real thing we want is for them to say “we aren’t going to do this again.” At the moment with this whole sham “evolution of fractals” our levels are still in jeopardy and they could and might do it again in 6 months. That’s why we aren’t shutting up about this. We do not want it to happen again. Is that so wrong?

Weren’t they gonna get rid of towns clothing? Pretty ironic if i got a shirt that they would take away later ha-ha, to me fractals was dead once they kitten blocked 50. Fractured was a massive fail.

I didn’t hear about that, but it was just an example for something that people thought of,

Lilith Ajit.6173:

As simple as a title. Or a town clothes shirt that said “I got to fractal level x and all I got was the tshirt”. Again if you actually read the thread this has already been answered. But the real thing we want is for them to say “we aren’t going to do this again.” At the moment with this whole sham “evolution of fractals” our levels are still in jeopardy and they could and might do it again in 6 months. That’s why we aren’t shutting up about this. We do not want it to happen again. Is that so wrong?

That t shirt idea is actually really cool, only I have a sneaky suspicion they don’t even have that data anymore.

And I wouldn’t lose any sleep over reset of levels again because it almost certainly won’t happen, what will probably happen is unlocking past 50.

Lastly, before I go away and stop checking this thread because there’s just no reasoning with some people, most of the time Anet stays quite is because they don’t really have an answer, yes they originally said it was unlimited but it wasn’t really because it wasn’t built quite right.
At least now they did made AR possible to raise indefinitely so in the future you can also have indefinite levels.
Have you ever thought maybe right now is capped at 50 because they haven’t finish working on the trickery that’s gonna be introduced above that so you can really have a treadmill that raises giving you the opportunity for some real bragging rights this time around?

Dean Calaway.9718:

phys.7689:

first off
the reset wasnt to level 50, it was to level 30.
Even if you think +50 was exploit, +30 was not.(…)

First off, I never said they reset it to 50.

So when you’re done assuming things you can start wrapping your head around the concept of a big company where people can’t talk without PRs and red tape and made a decision they thought it was best.

What would have been the difference if they reset it back to 50 instead when you said it yourself, people can fairly easy get there?

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

You’re wrong, but let me argue this in your terms.

The developers said that at release they only thought people would get up to level 50. You may not have been around at release, but at that time you could only have up to 30 agony resistance.(…)

I bought the game at launch, so I was very much around.

You’re still hanging over this and throwing your tantrum because I mention that fractals were never spouse to go beyond level 50 in the first place, thats really tripping you isn’kitten
Still hanging on “but the devs said unlimited”, they say a lot of things don’t they? Want me to list some of them that never got to be or you wanna start being a grown up about this?

Again, to the POINT of the thread (by the way to who ever may this concern, reporting can back fire if the reported is not actually violating ToS), the reset and the compensation, the whole point of this thread, which is what I was discussing in my first post.

They made it into something “different” and reset the levels, what did you want?
Stay on a level that wouldn’t have been acquired under the new mechanics?
You should consider yourself lucky it wasn’t all the way back to 10 or 1.
And what would the compensation be exactly? Maybe some loot, for people to say “not good enough loot”?
What would be fair?

Here’s the logic of our arguments simplified:

You: People exploited/cheated to go past 50 because the developers never intended it.
Me: Just because the developers never intended it (even though they told us the dungeon was unlimited, making us think anything was fair game) doesn’t mean people exploited/cheated. They used a variety of in game mechanics to do it, like using guardians/rangers/necros and properly timed heals.
You: Because you needed a guardian/ranger/necro to progress it was obvious people were exploiting.
Me: You needed those classes to beat the 40s, which the developers said they DID intend.

The only thing I care about is you calling legitimately skilled players cheaters and exploiters.

As to this thread’s topic, I just want Chris to give us his thoughts about the decisions made and the decisions going forward, as he said he would back when more people were still around to be upset about this.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

As simple as a title. Or a town clothes shirt that said “I got to fractal level x and all I got was the tshirt”. Again if you actually read the thread this has already been answered. But the real thing we want is for them to say “we aren’t going to do this again.” At the moment with this whole sham “evolution of fractals” our levels are still in jeopardy and they could and might do it again in 6 months. That’s why we aren’t shutting up about this. We do not want it to happen again. Is that so wrong?

That t shirt idea is actually really cool, only I have a sneaky suspicion they don’t even have that data anymore.

And I wouldn’t lose any sleep over reset of levels again because it almost certainly won’t happen, what will probably happen is unlocking past 50.
?

I have zero response to your last part because it is just too speculative.

Again, none of us expect compensation this late in the game. We are upset that they ever thought it was okay to do without compensation in the first place.

And how do any of us know what they will or will not do in the future? They are ignoring our questions about this now, and they will likely ignore them forever.

When we all started fractals, there was never any clue that they would reset our levels. How can you say now, that after they did it and said nothing about it, that they would not do it again?

Dean Calaway.9718:

phys.7689:

first off
the reset wasnt to level 50, it was to level 30.
Even if you think +50 was exploit, +30 was not.(…)

First off, I never said they reset it to 50.

So when you’re done assuming things you can start wrapping your head around the concept of a big company where people can’t talk without PRs and red tape and made a decision they thought it was best.

What would have been the difference if they reset it back to 50 instead when you said it yourself, people can fairly easy get there?

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

You’re wrong, but let me argue this in your terms.

The developers said that at release they only thought people would get up to level 50. You may not have been around at release, but at that time you could only have up to 30 agony resistance.(…)

I bought the game at launch, so I was very much around.

You’re still hanging over this and throwing your tantrum because I mention that fractals were never spouse to go beyond level 50 in the first place, thats really tripping you isn’kitten
Still hanging on “but the devs said unlimited”, they say a lot of things don’t they? Want me to list some of them that never got to be or you wanna start being a grown up about this?

Again, to the POINT of the thread (by the way to who ever may this concern, reporting can back fire if the reported is not actually violating ToS), the reset and the compensation, the whole point of this thread, which is what I was discussing in my first post.

They made it into something “different” and reset the levels, what did you want?
Stay on a level that wouldn’t have been acquired under the new mechanics?
You should consider yourself lucky it wasn’t all the way back to 10 or 1.
And what would the compensation be exactly? Maybe some loot, for people to say “not good enough loot”?
What would be fair?

I wasnt assuming anything, you only talked about post 50 and said it wasnt intended so it was clean up.
but they reset down to 30 which means some people lost 20 levels.

The other factor is the new levels are made to be not different at all and in fact easier by playing level 49 again and again to progress. let me make this clear, level 49 is EXACTLY the same as prepatch except monsters do less dmg, have less hp, and you get agony all the time, which is mitigated by having enough agony resistance(which essentially becomes zero agony)

And the major difference if they hadnt reset it, would be that players would not have had to repeat 20-30 hours of the same content to get back to the same reward levels they had already earned (in fact it turns out to be less rewarding now than before to be 50)

As for the red tape and PR speak stopping the devs. thats the whole point, the thread is essentially saying this is a big mistake PR wise and customer service wise, not to be clear with your customer what they can expect. The thing is the door is now open for any type of charachter progression resets, even when there are no bugs or exploits. Under the same reasoning they could reset everyone to level 60 because they decided to change endgame.

as far as what to give players? it has been recomended they essentially get something to remember/commemorate thier achievement. Titles or special skins or effects covers it. However many recognize this wont happen and more want them to talk about it, and talk about their policy with similar things going forward. In a developing MMO this type of issue will pop up again and again

Why are you so angry at the CDI yeilding 0?

Any company that spends more time on talking about how to talk instead of fixing bugs cares less for its game after release. Do you have any idea how many bugs there are for ages that have received 0 response? Mesmer AI, Hunter pet AI, Eternity, Asura size in PvP, Fractal rewards, Fractal compensation, chopped gloves for anyone wearing TA chest, ……………………………………………

Just understand: The game is as-is. No bugs will be fixed this century.
Like it like this? Play. Don’t? Quit. It’s my moral seeing these forums.

Korossive.7085:

Why are you so angry at the CDI yeilding 0?

Any company that spends more time on talking about how to talk instead of fixing bugs cares less for its game after release. Do you have any idea how many bugs there are for ages that have received 0 response? Mesmer AI, Hunter pet AI, Eternity, Asura size in PvP, Fractal rewards, Fractal compensation, chopped gloves for anyone wearing TA chest, ……………………………………………

Just understand: The game is as-is. No bugs will be fixed this century.
Like it like this? Play. Don’t? Quit. It’s my moral seeing these forums.

I’ve watched Chris Whiteside work on the CDI over his vacations and on his days off. I’ve watched Josh Foreman speak passionately and openly about his projects. I’ve watched ANET recognize mistakes (I support their decision to reskin the light Flametouched armor, as a recent and major example) and take action to fix them. In the year I’ve played, the overall quality of life in the game has improved for me personally.

The reason this thread exists has almost nothing to do with the effectiveness of the CDI process (I hope everyone knew going into it that the community was not going to be given any ability to make sweeping changes in the game; we’re not their employees for a reason), if I think ANET or GW2 sucks (I don’t), if they’re an uncaring machine out to make a buck (they’re a big corporation; some of that just comes with the territory, and the rest actually works in our favor, since we’re the ones they’re trying to entice to spend money), if there are bugs that need to be fixed (sure) or a call for advice on how to spend my free time (I do not just quit doing something I enjoy when there are aspects of it I dislike).

I’m going to edit the first post and try to make it more clear. I don’t know what else to do.

maxinion.8396:

++ to Nevets for fighting the good fight. Very well said.

But hell, even the reset from 50 without any compensation is a slap to the face, considering PvP and WvW’ers get something when they’re reset.

PvPers aren’t being/haven’t been “reset” and what is it that you claim they “got/are getting”?

Tman.6349:

maxinion.8396:

++ to Nevets for fighting the good fight. Very well said.

But hell, even the reset from 50 without any compensation is a slap to the face, considering PvP and WvW’ers get something when they’re reset.

PvPers aren’t being/haven’t been “reset” and what is it that you claim they “got/are getting”?

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/player-vs-player-rewards-roadmap/

They were saying there that PvP ranks will be retired, but players will get a title based on the rank they achieved, and keep their finishers (those finishers will be exclusive, they will not be attainable anymore).

Due to player response, they finally went back on this move, unlike what they did after the fractal players response…

After recent posts from Chris in the CDI I think I understand what Anet’s goal is. Get rid of any hardcore pve’ers. They like pvp though and wvw hardcores.

I will never ever post in another CDI. The recent comments have illustrated that the evolution of the game in Anet’s eyes does not include people who challenge themselves.

I would like to think they might miss the money I spend in the gem store (now that I will not anymore). My weekly 100$ (yep, I do spend that much because I love this game) will go toward something else. I am not happy that they have so blatantly tossed us aside.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

After recent posts from Chris in the CDI I think I understand what Anet’s goal is. Get rid of any hardcore pve’ers. They like pvp though and wvw hardcores.

I will never ever post in another CDI. The recent comments have illustrated that the evolution of the game in Anet’s eyes does not include people who challenge themselves.

I would like to think they might miss the money I spend in the gem store (now that I will not anymore). My weekly 100$ (yep, I do spend that much because I love this game) will go toward something else. I am not happy that they have so blatantly tossed us aside.

It’s an interesting concept. A lot of WvW players along with almost all PvP players consider themselves hardcore. Recent updates over tha past few months were not only hinting, but Anet was plain out open about trying to drive players from PvE to WvW. Along with the whole PvP rewamp where they’re trying to merge PvE with PvP.

It all sound like not only they take those two areas very seriously, having teams specifically dedicated to them, but they’re also trying to get those hardcore PvE players bored with PvE itself. In turn having them migrate to PvP/WvW environments because of it.

Not only that but the recent talk about lowering the server numbers, and how pretty much all the content is designed solely around Zerging, which requires big amount of people to complete. Hence making guesting a “must”, since the lower servers cannot handle the coordination nor sheer power to complete said events. And the whole casual friendly revamp of fractals not only succeed in having a huge chunk of hardcore fractal players bored with PvE, but instead driving them to WvW and PvP areas, it backfired, making some of them quit gaming completely.

So in the end according to the theory, Anet is making fractals casual friendly to drive hardcore PvE playerbase traffic into more favored areas of the game to bring up the skill because of the drive towards eSpots.

I really hope that is not true, but as I see WvW and PvP getting a favorable side of Anet over and over again, it’s hard to stay positive. Now from a PvP and WvW player standpoint it might not look this way, since those forums are always fighting against one another. But the communication given to the issues and balances says otherwise. Giving open discussion about changes before they happen, rather that keeping players in the dark. Answering to problems and solutions with balances with either meeting players in the middle or going favorable towards them in some cases. That is communication! Bouncing ideas back and forth while trying to come up with a favorable solution to both parties.

The only attempt at communicating we’ve had as PvE players are the CDIs. But the issue is that the CDIs haven’t told us anything at all. Developers haven’t told us hardly anything at all as well. You can’t really say they’re open with us with the broad and basic answers like: we want to put lore in, we understand there’s a problem with dredge, move on. Those are generic statements. While Chris is trying to communicate with us, his inability to share practically anything of value with us is hardly communication. It’s more like gathering feedback, which we were told was happening with 2000+ replies thread in Fractured sub-forum.

Proposal doesn’t mean anything. It’s not a statement of what they’re going to do, nor it’s a statement that anything will be done at all. A proper communication would be something along the lines of: “Hey! We’re are thinking of revamping the reward system in the following way trying to meet you guys in the middle. What do you think?”. Having an answer: “We’re aware of the fact that you guys want more rewards” is nothing compared to earlier example.

It would be beneficial for Anet to start PvP-style threads with PvE community where we can chime in on the upcoming changes and give our feedback and ideas before the said content comes out. And it would also be nice for them to listen to that feedback, unlike what happened for a week before Fractured came out.

I agree with everything you said, Romo. Anet is pushing me to go into pvp, into wvw, but as I don’t find enjoyment from those game modes I’m being pushed out of the game. That’s how I feel, anyway.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Tman.6349:

maxinion.8396:

++ to Nevets for fighting the good fight. Very well said.

But hell, even the reset from 50 without any compensation is a slap to the face, considering PvP and WvW’ers get something when they’re reset.

PvPers aren’t being/haven’t been “reset” and what is it that you claim they “got/are getting”?

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/player-vs-player-rewards-roadmap/

They were saying there that PvP ranks will be retired, but players will get a title based on the rank they achieved, and keep their finishers (those finishers will be exclusive, they will not be attainable anymore).

Due to player response, they finally went back on this move, unlike what they did after the fractal players response…

Getting compensation for ‘losing something’ (although you can still level back to 50 in FotM) is entirely different than just keeping something you currently have. PvPers aren’t really losing anything other than glory boosters. No big whoop IMO. We don’t need compensated for those though I’m sure the QQers on the booster subject will still get their way with some kind of vendor. Or maybe they’ll get a shirt that says “I had (x number) of boosters when Sent discontinued glory and all I got was this T-shirt!” The font will Probably too small to read though

Tman.6349:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Tman.6349:

maxinion.8396:

++ to Nevets for fighting the good fight. Very well said.

But hell, even the reset from 50 without any compensation is a slap to the face, considering PvP and WvW’ers get something when they’re reset.

PvPers aren’t being/haven’t been “reset” and what is it that you claim they “got/are getting”?

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/player-vs-player-rewards-roadmap/

They were saying there that PvP ranks will be retired, but players will get a title based on the rank they achieved, and keep their finishers (those finishers will be exclusive, they will not be attainable anymore).

Due to player response, they finally went back on this move, unlike what they did after the fractal players response…

Getting compensation for ‘losing something’ (although you can still level back to 50) is entirely different than just keeping something you currently have.

They were going to get (meaning: become compensated with something not already in place) a title to show their old rank.

Edit: I was rude so I edited that part out. I’ll try harder next time to be nicer.

Romo.3709:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

After recent posts from Chris in the CDI I think I understand what Anet’s goal is. Get rid of any hardcore pve’ers. They like pvp though and wvw hardcores.

I will never ever post in another CDI. The recent comments have illustrated that the evolution of the game in Anet’s eyes does not include people who challenge themselves.

I would like to think they might miss the money I spend in the gem store (now that I will not anymore). My weekly 100$ (yep, I do spend that much because I love this game) will go toward something else. I am not happy that they have so blatantly tossed us aside.

It’s an interesting concept. A lot of WvW players along with almost all PvP players consider themselves hardcore. Recent updates over tha past few months were not only hinting, but Anet was plain out open about trying to drive players from PvE to WvW. Along with the whole PvP rewamp where they’re trying to merge PvE with PvP.
[…]

I’m sincerely interested in hearing your thoughts and your feelings about writing so much, putting effort into the whole reasoning – very well done, with the knowledge that no dev will ever read, answer or even remotely care about what you said. I’m also referring to the effort you put into that pathetic cesspool of a CDI thread.
I totally feel like you, but to me it’s much more rewarding to make fun of them, even if it’s not “constructive” (duh) and use it as a distraction. Maybe it’s just because nothing matters to me nowadays…

Fractals used to be a challenge to me. You had to master many different Mechanics to simply get past 40 before they increased the AR that you could have with weapons /etc. I loved when we had a perfectly timed set of Guardian Heals (I played guardian for my main fractal runner)…it felt good. I loved doing 70+ fractals because it was an incredible experience. You had to work together as a group to do it. I only did them with a PUG because no one I knew was above 30 in fractal level, but when you do a 70+ with someone and succeed well, you form a bond with those people. I quickly became one of those people that fractal runners would call upon when they needed another person. I loved that. I loved that I could be doing something with my guild or just running around and I get the whisper : “Hey, doing a 72, wanna join?” or even a “doing daily 48, wanna come?”

I used to joke with my guildies that some of the best people I met in the game I met doing fractal 48+…it seemed like the jerks stayed down around the lower numbers…if you got above a 38 people really became decent, because you had to work together to get there.

The same mechanics “timed guardian heals…which since I was a guardian was the only mechanic I ever used” were used from 40-80…and it was awesome when we got it right. Occasionally, we failed…and then you had to time your jump into the maw and hit your heals again to succeed…but it was still awesome.

And someone mentioned 20-30 hours just lost getting from 30-50…with all the bugs we early fractal runners ran into (which completely halted progress), that was closer to 50-80 hours lost just to 50, not including levels above that.

At my full-time job, even 40 hours is about $1200 (after taxes and 401k and medical). That is what ANET took from me. That is why I simply want them to talk about it. My job doesnt give me a lot of time to put into the game…I play maybe 1-2 hours a night. I’m not some college or high school kid who can play all day every day and regain my levels in fractals over-night. I have a career, wife, and family that need my time. They took literally months of progression from me. Without saying a word about it.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Tman.6349:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Tman.6349:

maxinion.8396:

++ to Nevets for fighting the good fight. Very well said.

But hell, even the reset from 50 without any compensation is a slap to the face, considering PvP and WvW’ers get something when they’re reset.

PvPers aren’t being/haven’t been “reset” and what is it that you claim they “got/are getting”?

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/player-vs-player-rewards-roadmap/

They were saying there that PvP ranks will be retired, but players will get a title based on the rank they achieved, and keep their finishers (those finishers will be exclusive, they will not be attainable anymore).

Due to player response, they finally went back on this move, unlike what they did after the fractal players response…

Getting compensation for ‘losing something’ (although you can still level back to 50) is entirely different than just keeping something you currently have.

They were going to get (meaning: become compensated with something not already in place) a title to show their old rank.

Edit: I was rude so I edited that part out. I’ll try harder next time to be nicer.

There was never any concrete word about the ‘title’. They said it’s one thing they had considered but instead just decided to keep the ranks anyway.

I don’t know why your incapable of taking the entire context of a subject instead of cherry picking remarks that work best for supporting your opinion. Especially when it was made very clear they had ‘shared some ideas’.

So pls don’t accuse me of being ignorant/stupid on a public forum and assuming I ’can’t read’ when it is I that has stayed up to date with the context of the chgasnge and don’t need to quote silly snippets. This thread isn’t even about PvP anyway. However, somebody had to play the ‘oppressed/victimized’ card and bring it up anyway so I was just questioning the validity of their anology. Ie PvPers are getting nothing special dept a merchant to spend glory. If they were taking away Fractal Relics suddenly, I would expect a similar thing.

@ Lilith I appreciate your redaction very much and understand the subject can be an emotional one for many, so thanx again for doing the right thing there. many people are fine with letting it ‘fly off the cuff’ and not thinking/looking back. I have read a lot of your posts on these forums and we’ve had our far share of opinions back and for whether we agreed or disagreed you’ve always been constructive and never resorted to attacks. (I haven’t had my coffee today yet either) For the record though, I’m not arguing against you or anyone else, for that matter, on this one. I just didn’t like the sleight of hand approach in comparing Fractured to the PvP overhaul is all. (whoever brought it up)

Tman.6349:

@ Lilith I appreciate your redaction very much and understand the subject can be an emotional one for many, so thanx again for doing the right thing there. many people are fine with letting it ‘fly off the cuff’ and not thinking/looking back. I have read a lot of your posts on these forums and we’ve had our far share of opinions back and for whether we agreed or disagreed you’ve always been constructive and never resorted to attacks. (I haven’t had my coffee today yet either) For the record though, I’m not arguing against you or anyone else, for that matter, on this one. I just didn’t like the sleight of hand approach in comparing Fractured to the PvP overhaul is all. (whoever brought it up)

Well okay. hand shake

I’m just annoyed by people acting like anet did everything right with fractured. I’m annoyed with people accusing and making us all feel like we have no right to be upset. This thread isn’t the place to be arguing about it, we are supposed to be talking about communication, that’s why I got upset. I’m also sorry for being easily upset.

Edit: added picture for effect.

Most people, myself included, have played high level fractals b/c of the challenge and the increased chance of ‘prestigeous’ weapons imo. Although they DID get compensated in a way by getting multiple relics per day and having extra rolls for rewards, I DO UNDERSTAND that rolling back the levels did hurt some players daily routines as that was TWO LESS dailies they could do for relics and that ‘Maw Box’. The main, or rather ONLY, problem I can see with handing out compensation for those lost dailes (let’s face it the FotM Lvls were just numbers otherwise and hold no inherent prestiege) is the fact that there’s no absolute way to determine who would have done those dailies every single time in the lapse of time between getting reset and getting leveled back up to 50. I con’t say, with this in mind, that I think those effected should get a bunch of extra relics or ‘goodie bags’ thrown at them as many people might have got to level 50 long ago and haven’t done Fracs since. With these two points in mind, I DO think it would be entirely FAIR and a show of good will for Pre-Fractured level 50s to get a Fractal Weapon box (or a claim ticket with associated vendor) where they could pick one (maybe even two; one for each week to get back to lvl 50) Fractal Weapons with SELECTABLE stats. This was one of the most sought after rewards associated with running high Fracs and many people had luckily got several of them with a bit of ‘anti-luck’ that they were always the wrong stats. I was someone that leveled FotM just because I like new challenges and am a bit of a completionist, but then I quit as I find other things more fun. I am, therefore, not emotionally invested in FotM as some and it’s no big deal for me to grind out the last few levels again and then move on to what ever else I like (mainly PvP, Dungeons, ‘Alting’, and helping new players) but this, at least, seems like a decent proposal. The ‘prestiege’ is all in peoples heads tbh BUT the loss of two tiers of rewards whele leveling up again is very real, so I can understand a bit of compensation on that front. I’ve seen people demanding they should get 5g per level lost though. That is insane tbh and very egocentric. Once again thanx for being civil as I am not your enemy at all.

Yeah that’s fine…. But at this point I haven’t heard anyone asking for actual compensation for a good 2 months. It’s the lack of communication that occurred before, during, and after fractured and most recently, with Chris in the latest CDI that has reformed this conversation in the playerbase.

After what he said, do you still hope in any kind of communication? It’s pretty clear they’re disgusted by their hardcore community and want you to leave or move to other game modes. Or is it just me?