Counter Invisibility, not Stealth
Just watched the livestream. Ranger Sic Em will apply 4s Revealed instantly, and cannot be dodged.
It’s worse than I thought. No possibility for counter play except perma-stealthing so they can’t acquire a target to begin with.
Disgusting.
Nice joke post man, you really made my day with that one. Because if there’s ANY thief who thinks 4s reveal will kill them, how do you survive the 4s reveal you already get from coming out of stealth when you hit something while in it?
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I’ve seen three Thieves destroy a zerg of 20+ players due to Abusing the perma stealth mechanics the whole group got destroyed by three..and routed..
Its about time these exploits got fixed, and it only took a year, time to actually skill up thieves..and stop hiding behind invisibility flaws..
P.S. I think enemy thieves should see stealthed thieves as well as a counter..
Stealth is NOT a thief Mechanic… Steal and Venoms and Initiative ARE. Why do thieves not understand they do not OWN STEALTH…
Just watched the livestream. Ranger Sic Em will apply 4s Revealed instantly, and cannot be dodged.
It’s worse than I thought. No possibility for counter play except perma-stealthing so they can’t acquire a target to begin with.
Disgusting.
lol try relying less on perma stealth. it’s a scrub build anyway and it gives thieves a bad name.
Lots of things have hard counters.
I don’t base my whole playstyle on one mechanic, expecting it to never be countered. It is time that stealth-centered builds have to fear counters the same that any other build that is built steeply on one mechanic.
Lots of things have hard counters.
I don’t base my whole playstyle on one mechanic, expecting it to never be countered. It is time that stealth-centered builds have to fear counters the same that any other build that is built steeply on one mechanic.
Like they fear condition stacking and CC? Cool.
Tell that to all the guards that shrug off a group of four and keep running….
Soldier runes shout guard in WvW traited for cleanse. Try it.
So your answer to a thief backstabbing you is… condi cleanse…
One skill on the ranger won’t change much. It’s funny how some thiefs cry about it.
4s on 40s cd.
If every class has at least one skill like that you could start, but having it doesn’t mean they have it equiped. On the good side, it won’t affect pve at all. Lucky thiefs!
This whole conversation is a little premature. We are talking about 1 skill (sic’em) on 1 class (Ranger) with a 40 second cool down. Rangers don’t have a whole lot useful utilities and most builds require some very specific ones to function. Most Rangers still carry Signet of the Hunt to keep their 25% movement, which leaves only 2 slots open. The Beastmaster Ranger is a rare breed. How often do you see one? You should probably wait to see if anyone actually uses it before crying that you’ve have been massively wronged. Incidentally, balance would be if all classes had a skill to cause reveal, including thieves.
On the other hand, if you perma-stealth thieving types are having nightmares about packs of Rangers running around and revealing you, well that serves you right for the large number of your brethren who run around killing sheep to ramp up their bloodlust and then lurk around a resource node waiting for someone to start the gathering animation.
What about the skills and traits getting countered by a blind, a block, a dodge or even a stealth?
Stealth is so integrated into mesmer and thief traits at this point that having a way to remove the invisibility is probably the best way to handle it. Either that or just implement stealth breaking on a block, evade, or invulned attack.
I don’t think the sic’ em change is going to really do anything about stealth at all since it’s such an awkward skill to put it on and it’s only on one friggin class, wow and it only took a year to get a “counter” to stealth on one skill on one class. Thanks Anet!
Anet really needs to move away from countering stupid imbalanced mechanics with build destroying hard counters. That’s not losing to being outplayed, that’s losing to somebody’s build and it’s becoming quite rampant in this game.
Just watched the livestream. Ranger Sic Em will apply 4s Revealed instantly, and cannot be dodged.
It’s worse than I thought. No possibility for counter play except perma-stealthing so they can’t acquire a target to begin with.
Disgusting.
lol try relying less on perma stealth. it’s a scrub build anyway and it gives thieves a bad name.
Reading comprehension much?
One of the worst problems with this implementation is that it affects perma-stealth builds the least out of all builds that make use of Stealth, because they can’t be easily targeted to begin with.
I have stated multiple times that perma-stealthing is a plague on the Thief profession that skews the balance perception of the Stealth mechanic. It needs to be removed from the game through disabling Infusion of Shadow procs while already Stealthed, but instead of fixing the root of the problem, ANet decides to implement a hard counter to Stealth that disproportionately punishes Thieves that use Stealth sparingly.
(edited by Kaon.7192)
What about the skills and traits getting countered by a blind, a block, a dodge or even a stealth?
All of those are counters to a game mechanic known as “attacking”, that all classes are affected by reasonably equally.
Revealed outright disables the use of a single mechanic that Thieves and Mesmers have a whole class of builds based upon, and disproportionately affects these types of builds, and will effectively take them out of the repertoire of viable builds for competitive play. As if Stealth wasn’t already unviable enough in sPvP.
This whole conversation is a little premature. We are talking about 1 skill (sic’em) on 1 class (Ranger) with a 40 second cool down. Rangers don’t have a whole lot useful utilities and most builds require some very specific ones to function. Most Rangers still carry Signet of the Hunt to keep their 25% movement, which leaves only 2 slots open. The Beastmaster Ranger is a rare breed. How often do you see one? You should probably wait to see if anyone actually uses it before crying that you’ve have been massively wronged. Incidentally, balance would be if all classes had a skill to cause reveal, including thieves.
On the other hand, if you perma-stealth thieving types are having nightmares about packs of Rangers running around and revealing you, well that serves you right for the large number of your brethren who run around killing sheep to ramp up their bloodlust and then lurk around a resource node waiting for someone to start the gathering animation.
Refer to my post above for comments on perma-Stealth.
While this particular implementation has plenty of problems, the main implication of the change is that this is only the beginning of a campaign of similar anti-Stealth changes. It’s safe to assume that ANet intends to make further use of the Revealed mechanic as a hard-counter going forward.
For all those of you who advocate to wait until enough of these are implemented to affect gameplay significantly before complaining, I urge you to consider this metaphor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
Hard counter is ok if it’s created for something that are immensely powerful. In this case few people could deny how much unfair advantage the thief has against other classes just by clicking the stealth button. I know thief has weakness such as being squishy but as long as they do not get one shot they can reset the fight almost at will and there is very little other classes could do about it beside blind AoE, which is not balanced by any mean.
So either hard counter need to be created and make thief less effective against a specific class or stealth must be nerfed and make thief weaker against all classes, your choice.
The honest complete truth, there is a group of people who have an irrational hatred of thief/rougue type classes and mechanics. They will always hate these classes. Its similar to the 300 lb 6 foot 6 guy who hates the tiny skinny guys who wont fight fair. They want the rules of engagement on their terms.
While it isnt the end of the world, the fact is this doesnt really make sense, 1 class, with 1 anti stealth mechanic isnt a counter for invisibility as a whole. Also the trend of having UNAVOIDABLE counters to your main class mechanic is a bad idea. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT INVISIBILITY ITSELF. Im talking about the skills which are currently only usable in invisisble state, and the traits that benefit from invisibility.
following this logic, how would you feel about a 2000 range skill that cannot be evaded, that stops adrenaline regen, or that destroys all your pet summons and you cant summon any more for 5 seconds.
The devs are listening to the irrational hatred of theives. As the OP said, they should have made mechanics that counter the effectiveness of not being able to be seen, not the class mechanics that go with it.
you realize two rangers can disable theif class mechanic for 10/32 seconds.
All of this with the FACT that theif is not top teir in any game mode. Theif is constantly getting nerfed and getting ignored for good balance changes because he doesnt make people feel good about themselves when they play against them.
Honestly i wish they would just remove stealth completely if its going to cause them to ignore/weaken the class to the point of ineffectiveness. turn stealth to camoflauge, which makes all hits glancing and disables name tag (tab targetting) outside of 300 range people can see the predator like effect while active.
phys, Rangers have had to deal with hard counters to our mechanic (pets) since Day One. Do you really think a counter to stealth is going to destroy the thief class when stealth is not required to succeed? Example, Rangers have had to deal with our pets dying constantly to the point where most Rangers build themselves up and ignore their pet. It’s there, but the bulk of our builds ignore the pet completely, so we can be effective without it. Stop QQing about stealth when you can start building up in the traitlines that allow survival or don’t require mass amounts of stealth. Be creative, don’t be a cookie cutter build.
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Pet’s dying is caused by taking damage. This affects all entities in the game, players or pets. It’s by no means a counter to Pets specifically.
I’m not saying pets are well designed in this game, but the state of pets has little relevance in this discussion.
“Refer to my post above for comments on perma-Stealth.
While this particular implementation has plenty of problems, the main implication of the change is that this is only the beginning of a campaign of similar anti-Stealth changes. It’s safe to assume that ANet intends to make further use of the Revealed mechanic as a hard-counter going forward.
For all those of you who advocate to wait until enough of these are implemented to affect gameplay significantly before complaining, I urge you to consider this metaphor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog[/quote]"
Well, now you are really making my point. Instead of speculating about how this change today will impact gameplay, we should also speculate wildly about changes to the game Anet hasn’t even thought of yet.
I agree with several other posters that eliminating the ability to stack stealth to silly levels would be better than a reveal, on ONE skill, for ONE class. But after reading all the posts crying about the massive unfairness of this act, any sympathy has vanished.
It’s not fair! Now I can’t be in stealth for 3 seconds, every 40 seconds! Of course this only matters is I run into someone who actually uses it…
My entire build and play style is based on being in stealth all the time. This, in combination with the built-in evasions in my attacks and the blindness they cause, is key to my success. What am I supposed to do if other players can see me? Some of them are going to try and kill me! I don’t want to raise my toughness past the 917 I already have.
We thieves are squishy enough as it is. Seriously, they make us wear light armor and there are no ways for us to get vitality or toughness besides traiting for it. Oh wait, that is every other game ever made, except this one.
Engineers, Elementalists, and necros are all long range characters. We have to get really close!
The honest complete truth, there is a group of people who have an irrational hatred of thief/rougue type classes and mechanics. They will always hate these classes. Its similar to the 300 lb 6 foot 6 guy who hates the tiny skinny guys who wont fight fair. They want the rules of engagement on their terms.
While it isnt the end of the world, the fact is this doesnt really make sense, 1 class, with 1 anti stealth mechanic isnt a counter for invisibility as a whole. Also the trend of having UNAVOIDABLE counters to your main class mechanic is a bad idea. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT INVISIBILITY ITSELF. Im talking about the skills which are currently only usable in invisisble state, and the traits that benefit from invisibility.
following this logic, how would you feel about a 2000 range skill that cannot be evaded, that stops adrenaline regen, or that destroys all your pet summons and you cant summon any more for 5 seconds.
The devs are listening to the irrational hatred of theives. As the OP said, they should have made mechanics that counter the effectiveness of not being able to be seen, not the class mechanics that go with it.
you realize two rangers can disable theif class mechanic for 10/32 seconds.
All of this with the FACT that theif is not top teir in any game mode. Theif is constantly getting nerfed and getting ignored for good balance changes because he doesnt make people feel good about themselves when they play against them.
Honestly i wish they would just remove stealth completely if its going to cause them to ignore/weaken the class to the point of ineffectiveness. turn stealth to camoflauge, which makes all hits glancing and disables name tag (tab targetting) outside of 300 range people can see the predator like effect while active.
Thank you for taking the time to actually read and considering my concerns seriously.
Coincidentally I have also made a post in the Thief forums about removing Invisibility entirely from the Stealth mechanic. Needless to say it’s not being very well received.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Stealth-Mechanic-Without-100-Invisibility
Pet’s dying is caused by taking damage. This affects all entities in the game, players or pets. It’s by no means a counter to Pets specifically.
I’m not saying pets are well designed in this game, but the state of pets has little relevance in this discussion.
EVERYTHING is the counter to our pet. But yet you thieves are QQing that you have a single counter ON A 40 SECOND COOLDOWN! Jesus you guys are such carebears, QQing because you can’t play easy mode as easily as you could before in WvW. Get the hell over it.
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
“Refer to my post above for comments on perma-Stealth.
While this particular implementation has plenty of problems, the main implication of the change is that this is only the beginning of a campaign of similar anti-Stealth changes. It’s safe to assume that ANet intends to make further use of the Revealed mechanic as a hard-counter going forward.
For all those of you who advocate to wait until enough of these are implemented to affect gameplay significantly before complaining, I urge you to consider this metaphor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog"
Well, now you are really making my point. Instead of speculating about how this change today will impact gameplay, we should also speculate wildly about changes to the game Anet hasn’t even thought of yet.
I agree with several other posters that eliminating the ability to stack stealth to silly levels would be better than a reveal, on ONE skill, for ONE class. But after reading all the posts crying about the massive unfairness of this act, any sympathy has vanished.
It’s not fair! Now I can’t be in stealth for 3 seconds, every 40 seconds! Of course this only matters is I run into someone who actually uses it…
My entire build and play style is based on being in stealth all the time. This, in combination with the built-in evasions in my attacks and the blindness they cause, is key to my success. What am I supposed to do if other players can see me? Some of them are going to try and kill me! I don’t want to raise my toughness past the 917 I already have.
We thieves are squishy enough as it is. Seriously, they make us wear light armor and there are no ways for us to get vitality or toughness besides traiting for it. Oh wait, that is every other game ever made, except this one.
Engineers, Elementalists, and necros are all long range characters. We have to get really close!
ANet has clearly stated that this is only the beginning of their Anti-Stealth changes. I don’t think it counts as wild speculation to say that similar mechanics as Sic Em will be implemented for other classes on different skills.
I agree with several other posters that eliminating the ability to stack stealth to silly levels would be better than a reveal, on ONE skill, for ONE class. But after reading all the posts crying about the massive unfairness of this act, any sympathy has vanished.
Please don’t give up on rational thought and discussion on what is better for the state of the game out of simple spite.
Phys, I agree with some of your points, but you can’t call the hatred of thieves irrational. It has been earned by the large number of people who abuse the daylights out of the stealth mechanic. While it may be human nature to use every tool at your disposal, it’s what these people do with their perma-stealth that infuriates people. No one complains about perma-stealthing in the middle of zerg. It’s the people who use to prey upon the unsuspecting that really turns people off. You can argue that’s part of the game, like it or lump it, but people don’t complain about getting jumped by a guardian.
It’s too bad really. The first 5 thieves on my server who come to mind are very skilled players. They don’t lurk on the other side of doors. They are excellent team players who use their stealth to cover allies and I often see them shadowing small groups like an escort, using their abilities to defend. I’ll take that kind of player anytime.
Pet’s dying is caused by taking damage. This affects all entities in the game, players or pets. It’s by no means a counter to Pets specifically.
I’m not saying pets are well designed in this game, but the state of pets has little relevance in this discussion.
EVERYTHING is the counter to our pet. But yet you thieves are QQing that you have a single counter ON A 40 SECOND COOLDOWN! Jesus you guys are such carebears, QQing because you can’t play easy mode as easily as you could before in WvW. Get the hell over it.
I assume by “EVERYTHING” you mean taking damage. Taking enough damage to die will take anything out of play. It’s not a hard counter specifically to your pet mechanic, and you have plenty of opportunity for counter-play in terms of mitigating, healing, and outright negating damage through pet swap on 15s cooldown.
If you want to talk complain about your pets being useless or too easy to kill, feel free to do it in another thread. But until another class gets a button to disable your pet and pet swap completely and instantly for 4s, this thread is not the place to discuss it.
Phys, I agree with some of your points, but you can’t call the hatred of thieves irrational. It has been earned by the large number of people who abuse the daylights out of the stealth mechanic. While it may be human nature to use every tool at your disposal, it’s what these people do with their perma-stealth that infuriates people. No one complains about perma-stealthing in the middle of zerg. It’s the people who use to prey upon the unsuspecting that really turns people off. You can argue that’s part of the game, like it or lump it, but people don’t complain about getting jumped by a guardian.
It’s too bad really. The first 5 thieves on my server who come to mind are very skilled players. They don’t lurk on the other side of doors. They are excellent team players who use their stealth to cover allies and I often see them shadowing small groups like an escort, using their abilities to defend. I’ll take that kind of player anytime.
Yes Thieves who abuse Perma-Stealth are despicable and are the root cause of a large portion of valid Thief complaints.
Still, we need to be advocating for precision changes that target Perma-Stealth specifically instead of for changes that cause the most collateral damage to people who don’t abuse Stealth in the same manner.
Well, I wouldn’t hang my hat on any “promises” made regarding future changes. As we all know, many go unfulfilled. But you are right — you are certainly entitled to have this discussion and to let Anet know how you feel. However, some of you may wish to limit your use of the words rational and irrational. They aren’t being used properly, in the traditional or common manner. Hopefully, the discussion will continue on the reveal mechanic, rather than the “I have to change my style” argument. Every update we get game play and professional changes. Everyone has to adapt, not just thieves.
Pet’s dying is caused by taking damage. This affects all entities in the game, players or pets. It’s by no means a counter to Pets specifically.
I’m not saying pets are well designed in this game, but the state of pets has little relevance in this discussion.
EVERYTHING is the counter to our pet. But yet you thieves are QQing that you have a single counter ON A 40 SECOND COOLDOWN! Jesus you guys are such carebears, QQing because you can’t play easy mode as easily as you could before in WvW. Get the hell over it.
I assume by “EVERYTHING” you mean taking damage. Taking enough damage to die will take anything out of play. It’s not a hard counter specifically to your pet mechanic, and you have plenty of opportunity for counter-play in terms of mitigating, healing, and outright negating damage through pet swap on 15s cooldown.
If you want to talk complain about your pets being useless or too easy to kill, feel free to do it in another thread. But until another class gets a button to disable your pet and pet swap completely and instantly for 4s, this thread is not the place to discuss it.
Every class has that ability to do that to Rangers, Kaon. But ours can be shut off for an entire minute easily. And that’s not all, immobilize makes our pets useless, cripple makes them useless, chill makes them useless, anything that prevents them from hitting their target makes them useless. Every class can do that to the Ranger pet, every class can effectively shut off our pet’s usefulness entirely for more than 4 seconds.
But yet thieves are complaining that their stealth can get shut off for 4 seconds? No, I have no sympathy, go level a Ranger to 80, do every dungeon and instance multiple times, play through sPvP for weeks, and WvW for weeks, and THEN come back and tell me you’re willing to complain about stealth being shut off for 4 seconds. You won’t be, I guarantee it.
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
phys, Rangers have had to deal with hard counters to our mechanic (pets) since Day One. Do you really think a counter to stealth is going to destroy the thief class when stealth is not required to succeed? Example, Rangers have had to deal with our pets dying constantly to the point where most Rangers build themselves up and ignore their pet. It’s there, but the bulk of our builds ignore the pet completely, so we can be effective without it. Stop QQing about stealth when you can start building up in the traitlines that allow survival or don’t require mass amounts of stealth. Be creative, don’t be a cookie cutter build.
I have a ranger, i enjoy the ranger class and pet. However this would be equivalent to warrior getting an ability to knock your pet out of combat THAT YOU CANT DODGE/AVOID, and make you unable to swap for 4 seconds out of every 32.
no access to on pet swap abilities/traits no access to pet skills. They basically shut down your class mechanic for 4 seconds, unstoppably, thats a bad design. Pet death can be dealth with with skill use/traits, active management, and skillfull use of attack and return commands. there is no counterplay for this skill as implemented. Its a bad solution to the problem.
Pet’s dying is caused by taking damage. This affects all entities in the game, players or pets. It’s by no means a counter to Pets specifically.
I’m not saying pets are well designed in this game, but the state of pets has little relevance in this discussion.
EVERYTHING is the counter to our pet. But yet you thieves are QQing that you have a single counter ON A 40 SECOND COOLDOWN! Jesus you guys are such carebears, QQing because you can’t play easy mode as easily as you could before in WvW. Get the hell over it.
I assume by “EVERYTHING” you mean taking damage. Taking enough damage to die will take anything out of play. It’s not a hard counter specifically to your pet mechanic, and you have plenty of opportunity for counter-play in terms of mitigating, healing, and outright negating damage through pet swap on 15s cooldown.
If you want to talk complain about your pets being useless or too easy to kill, feel free to do it in another thread. But until another class gets a button to disable your pet and pet swap completely and instantly for 4s, this thread is not the place to discuss it.
Every class has that ability to do that to Rangers, Kaon. But ours can be shut off for an entire minute easily. And that’s not all, immobilize makes our pets useless, cripple makes them useless, chill makes them useless, anything that prevents them from hitting their target makes them useless. Every class can do that to the Ranger pet, every class can effectively shut off our pet’s usefulness entirely for more than 4 seconds.
But yet thieves are complaining that their stealth can get shut off for 4 seconds? No, I have no sympathy, go level a Ranger to 80, do every dungeon and instance multiple times, play through sPvP for weeks, and WvW for weeks, and THEN come back and tell me you’re willing to complain about stealth being shut off for 4 seconds. You won’t be, I guarantee it.
you can remove conditions on your pets, thats counterplay, and they have ranged pets. Swapping your pet also effectively deals with conditions. But even all that aside, even if your right, poor handling of pets (whom i think need more control options and better AI) is not a good reason to actively destroy other classes mechanics. If anything pet AI/management/traits should be improved. Just because you got robbed doesnt mean everyone in the neighborhood should get robbed as well
There is a counterplay to that phys. Stop making zerker stealth builds and actually start wearing equipment that allows you to take hits.
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
“Refer to my post above for comments on perma-Stealth.
While this particular implementation has plenty of problems, the main implication of the change is that this is only the beginning of a campaign of similar anti-Stealth changes. It’s safe to assume that ANet intends to make further use of the Revealed mechanic as a hard-counter going forward.
For all those of you who advocate to wait until enough of these are implemented to affect gameplay significantly before complaining, I urge you to consider this metaphor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog"
Well, now you are really making my point. Instead of speculating about how this change today will impact gameplay, we should also speculate wildly about changes to the game Anet hasn’t even thought of yet.
I agree with several other posters that eliminating the ability to stack stealth to silly levels would be better than a reveal, on ONE skill, for ONE class. But after reading all the posts crying about the massive unfairness of this act, any sympathy has vanished.
It’s not fair! Now I can’t be in stealth for 3 seconds, every 40 seconds! Of course this only matters is I run into someone who actually uses it…
My entire build and play style is based on being in stealth all the time. This, in combination with the built-in evasions in my attacks and the blindness they cause, is key to my success. What am I supposed to do if other players can see me? Some of them are going to try and kill me! I don’t want to raise my toughness past the 917 I already have.
We thieves are squishy enough as it is. Seriously, they make us wear light armor and there are no ways for us to get vitality or toughness besides traiting for it. Oh wait, that is every other game ever made, except this one.
Engineers, Elementalists, and necros are all long range characters. We have to get really close!
i play a lot of classes, and its not that its a bad idea to have counterplay, its that they are disabling your ability to use your class/build defining skills completely with no counter. If you are a pistol condition thief, they are disabling your main source of bleed stacks, if you are a backstab theif, no dmg, if you sword, no daze. I mean i think players should be able to adapt for 4 seconds, but to disable some of your most powerful skills with no counter/avoidance skillfull play is bad design in this game imo.
Also the thing with thieves is they arent really OP. Annoying? yes. Many a time ive been annoyed versus a theif, but,
are they actually doing much useful in WvW that anyone else cant do just as well or better? not really, mostly what they can do is run away very well. and assist burst dmg
are they hax sPVP class, not really, they kill unaware newbs, but in mid to high level play, they require a lot of skill to use, and dont really shine even when used at high skill
are they hax in PVE nope, their dmg is similar to other classes, but since npcs dont really care about invis (they remember your agro, and tend to use massive aoes) invis is mostly just for traits and skills, and occaisionally running past mobs more easily.
So this considered, why is theif consistently nerfed? because the perception of them is very negative. I want all the classes to be fun to play, and viable. I have most classes to 80. If the perception of stealth is going to cause the devs to consistently ignore thief problems and nerf useful thief skills, throw away the mechanic and go with something else, or alter stealth without nerfing the class/build defining skills that they tied to it.
Im looking for solutions, not the anger and the idea that thieves should die in a fire (which is honestly pretty common viewpoint in this thread)
There is a counterplay to that phys. Stop making zerker stealth builds and actually start wearing equipment that allows you to take hits.
Builds that arent glass dps suffer alot from this,
Defense suffers
grandmaster trait for condi removal on stealth
trait for heal while stealth
trait for movement speed while stealth
people see stealth and they think its just not being visible, but anet tied many of thief traits to stealth, and thier main weapon defining skills to stealth. There are a couple builds that dont really need or make use of stealth that much, but it is few.
to try to make it clear to you, im saying Even if you could see the player perfectly clearly, stealth would still be highly useful for some builds. This is not about being perma stealth or even being invisible for a second, its about having these skills disabled with no counter
use a condi removal skill
unable to blind an opponent
unable to use a primary bleed skill
unable to use an inititive gain mechanic
unable to get on next hit crit
unable to get movement speed buff
unable to daze
unable to get an extra boon
It simply shuts down too many skills with no counter, its a bad design. Its not a good solution to the problem.