Guild Wars 2

Gehenna.3625:

lol, people just need to understand that no one here has facts. I don’t either.

Everybody who talks about lots of players or everyone knows is just hiding behind bigger numbers that they invent because actually they just mean themselves.

It’s all opinion here, nothing more. Arenanet hold the numbers. They know how many people play, how many games are sold and how many people aren’t logging in anymore.

Are there servers with population issues? Maybe. I don’t know and the people who complain about it refuse to give details so why believe them?

Is DR so restrictive? Perhaps to some but only if you play a certain way that doesn’t even fit in what this game was advertised.

Can we agree that Anet said this game wasn’t for grinding?

If so, then why complain about not being able to grind like in a korean game?

For the love of whatever, somebody of you complainers should be able to see the irony in this and the point that you are grinding only because you have been so well trained by other games to do this and not because there is any real reason in this game to do so.

There simply is no need to do this. You do it because you have been taught to in other games and if you really like grinding away….yeh, you guessed it, this is not the game for you as Anet have been telling us for a long time…this game isn’t about grind.

Oh and just because you still see bots, doesn’t mean it isn’t working….just a thought. That may just be a rash or even a false conclusion. Consider it.

That’s the spirit dictate how players should play, tell them you know best. It worked so well for D3, FFXIV and Star Wars. This game should be seeing record sales in no time!

Gehenna.3625:

Is DR so restrictive? Perhaps to some but only if you play a certain way that doesn’t even fit in what this game was advertised.

This statement is simply not true. Are you repeating it over and over that if you say it enough times, it will become true?

I’ve already said that there’s lots of people who are legitimately affected by DR that aren’t trying to even stay in the same place or “farm”.

Here’s an example for you…

By Shiren in the post …

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/On-Botting-and-What-We-re-Doing-About-It/page/5#post297302

And I quote…

“IT’S BUGGED!!!! People who are not exploiting/botting/grinding/farming are getting hit by it. It is bugged. I did Twilight Arbor explorable (two different paths) for the first time EVER today and the first path I got 15 tokens when everyone else got 60, the second path I got 6 tokens (and only recieved one of them) when everyone else got either 45 or 60. The DR code is bugged, it is triggering on people who have never ever done the dungeon before, let alone meet the minimum requirement for it.

Read the bug forum, this has been reported several times by several people since the last update. It’s a real bug and it’s hurting a lot of people. Running a dungeon trying to get this armour and getting 6 tokens is an INFURIATING experience. It’s not fair and it’s absolutely unacceptable to say that stopping speed clearers is worth throwing honest hard working players under the bus with an untested and buggy DR code.

If it doesn’t work properly and it’s hurting some players, it shouldn’t be in the game at all. Let the exploiters run free until you can deal with them WITHOUT hurting other people.

September 29, 2012 22:40"

This is just one of the many examples I could find for you.

Actually, you can find them yourself if you read this very forum.

Your insistence on not doing this and trying to make a point without doing that doesn’t help you at all.

I’ve said it a lot of times today and I’ll say it again. It impacts people who are trying to play the game in a non-abusive and legitimate way.

It was implemened after the release to cover a desgin flaw that was not spotted in the beta. It was never part of the build up and advertising. It was then passed off as a measure to combat botting.

You show an advert or some press releases that mention this and I will give you real spendable money in return. I promise.

The release was rushed to keep up with the Joneses (or Blizzard with MoP) and if this is the best they can do, a DR system, don’t expect the game to have a large active population for much longer.

All the reasons why and the bad side of the DR and the people saying how they are affected are in this very forum if you bother to look for it.

You don’t want to do that. Fine. Don’t bother trying to talk like someone who has done any research then.

I’ll wait until you’ve done some reading about what other people are saying, then I’ll take you seriously.

Anet said this game is not for grinding, but then they introduced a dungeon system the required and insane amount of grind. They acknowledged that they were wrong, and changed that feature. Right now, prices are blowing up, in terms of unique exotics and the grind to make money has just increased.

Its ironic how you can say arenanet have built this game of grind while the inclusion of the DR at this present time is just adding more to the grinding we have to do. Without the DR you could afford things sooner rather than be forced to grind out DEs in parties in the hopes you tag enough mobs to get drops.

Can you come out now and tell me that I am wrong in terms of this? Am I wrong that the grind for unique skins is much greater with the inclusion of DR? Remember that players must have a reason to keep playing after they hit 100% map completion, after they get their exotics and that is to get skins. It is NOT AS OPTIONAL as many white knights seem to believe.

On the whole numbers thing, I totally agree that we dont know specific numbers on who is and isnt playing any more and also the amount of individuals that log in. BUT we do have our guild and personally, my guild of 130 odd have only 12 members logged in at any time even on a weekend. I DO NOT BELIEVE this is a one off situation, it seems incredibly unlikely that my one guild has about 100 members who have just suddenly decided to drop the game.

Remove the DR anet, no other successful MMO on the market has this system in their game.

Ronin I think the main problem is people have no idea what DR is. I went from making 7 gold in around 4 hrs to barley making 3 gold in almost twice the amount of time. Anet said the game is not about the grind then why is it taking me twice as long to make 60% less money!

Soulwatcher.2604:

Ronin I think the main problem is people have no idea what DR is. I went from making 7 gold in around 4 hrs to barley making 3 gold in almost twice the amount of time. Anet said the game is not about the grind then why is it taking me twice as long to make 60% less money!

EXACTLY.
The white knights are complaining about how people really shouldent farm, but ANET have essentially increased the amount of grinding we have to do just to keep us playing the game to get what we want.

Also, mayhaps they are limiting the amount of gold we can get so that they can promote their own gems→ gold conversion process? CONSPIRACY

The core of the matter is that you don’t need all this grind. This is an illusion that you guys have accepted yourself.

You complain that you cannot make 7 gold in 4 hours and now it takes you, what, 8 hours to get 3 gold?

I am no farmer or grinder and I can make 3 gold in 8 hours and I don’t even have to be in Orr for that.

And unique skins matter but you don’t have to have all of them collected within two weeks either.

Currently some of the best skins come from dungeons. You can do a dungeon in 3 different ways getting 60 tokens each time. If you think it’s a problem that it could take you 2-3 days to get a specific exotic item with a cool skin then you are simply impatient.

Oh and if it’s bugged that’s another matter. That’s not the DR system…that’s a bug in the system and that needs to be fixed. From what I’ve read that should be fixed on Monday….

Soulwatcher.2604:

Ronin I think the main problem is people have no idea what DR is. I went from making 7 gold in around 4 hrs to barley making 3 gold in almost twice the amount of time. Anet said the game is not about the grind then why is it taking me twice as long to make 60% less money!

I don’t think ANet know what they want themselves. It seems to me this has been rushed and as a former FF player, you’ll already know what this feels like, much like I do.

It’s a veritable mess. I agree with you mate, as you already know and I’ve been affected by the DR myself.

All the other instances of it affecting other people that have been reported by players are in the bug forum a few clicks away. I wish people would educate themselves.

There’s no MMO that’s never going to be about the grind in one capacity or another. They are not mutually exclusive. They will never be.

The last thing a game developer should ever do is tell their playerbase how to play the game and then tell me they’re doing it to keep the bots away.

No you’re not keeping the bots away from me at all. You’re just dictating to me how I should play and I don’t like it at all.

The DR wasn’t implemented for these reasons anyway, it was to cover design flaws, then it was passed off as anti-farm, anti-bot.

Anti-farm. When did farm ever become a dirty word? It’s just the collection of in-game resources. I don’t see why people want to curtail this action of mine!

Anyway, the difference with us and current GW2 players is that we’ve had the bad and enfuriating experience of seeing DR implemented in another game and literally destroying it, right infront of our eyes.

It hasn’t happened to most of these folks here. It’s not a particularly fun process to go through.

I’m hoping ANet aren’t as ignorant and difficult to persuade as SE were.

Although the response I get from the GW2 community and “whiteknight” defenders is that ANet will never bow to pressure nor be cowed into changing their game.

That’s a really really foolish stance to have. It’ll come back to bite them and bite them hard if there’s any truth in it.

Also, FFXIV hurt SE’s stock so badly they had to scrap XIII-2 quietly and put all the resources for that into XV for the PS4.

It’s been quoted in many Japanese game magazines that it’s SE’s last roll of the dice. They mess this up and it’s lights out SE forever.

I for one, won’t shed a tear. Squaresoft died ages ago and XI was the only really decent thing to come out of the Enix mashup and it was all Squaresoft foundation and Enix money. I had 6-odd years of glorius fun with that.

Be warned ANet. It’s a rocky path you’re starting on and we’re not making any of this up. It’s all happened before and these are real similar events that have happened to similar dev teams.

@Gehenna

I’d appreciate it if you addressed the point that it’s affecting the legitimate players and the proof I gave you for this.

There’s more proof if you want me to throw it your way.

I’d stronly encourage you to look in the bug forum to see the total mess and cluster kitten that the DR has created.

You’re talking from a standpoint of no research and it’s not helping you in any way.

DR was never mentioned in my build up buying the game and I came to the GW2 party after it was implemented.

Owing to my experiences with SE, if I was told, even in one short sentence that it had DR, I would have not made the purchase.

It’s that simple.

Gehenna.3625:

The core of the matter is that you don’t need all this grind. This is an illusion that you guys have accepted yourself.

You complain that you cannot make 7 gold in 4 hours and now it takes you, what, 8 hours to get 3 gold?

I am no farmer or grinder and I can make 3 gold in 8 hours and I don’t even have to be in Orr for that.

And unique skins matter but you don’t have to have all of them collected within two weeks either.

Currently some of the best skins come from dungeons. You can do a dungeon in 3 different ways getting 60 tokens each time. If you think it’s a problem that it could take you 2-3 days to get a specific exotic item with a cool skin then you are simply impatient.

Oh and if it’s bugged that’s another matter. That’s not the DR system…that’s a bug in the system and that needs to be fixed. From what I’ve read that should be fixed on Monday….

Gehenna thank you for proving my point. Never did I say I stood in 1 spot farming the same mobs over and over! I was running events and now the same events give 60% less loot for almost twice the time. And that has been verified by you personally!

Gehenna.3625:

The core of the matter is that you don’t need all this grind. This is an illusion that you guys have accepted yourself.

You complain that you cannot make 7 gold in 4 hours and now it takes you, what, 8 hours to get 3 gold?

I am no farmer or grinder and I can make 3 gold in 8 hours and I don’t even have to be in Orr for that.

And unique skins matter but you don’t have to have all of them collected within two weeks either.

Currently some of the best skins come from dungeons. You can do a dungeon in 3 different ways getting 60 tokens each time. If you think it’s a problem that it could take you 2-3 days to get a specific exotic item with a cool skin then you are simply impatient.

Oh and if it’s bugged that’s another matter. That’s not the DR system…that’s a bug in the system and that needs to be fixed. From what I’ve read that should be fixed on Monday….

Personally, my dungeon rewards are bugged atm so I dont get significant tokens at all. It is also hard to run a dungeon if your guild has so little individuals interested in it. I would join a pug, but there have been rumors lately of people kicking people for fun jsut before the final boss.

And as a casual player, I want to get the most of my time while I AM PLAYING, not to be hit by DR after 2 DEs or 20mins of soloing. To say that ANET is against grinding is not entirely true too, considering the dungeon system they placed in the game. To a game developer, it is about keeping players playing as long as possible to profit from it. They HAVE LIED about features too, while folloing through on promises.

The fact is we are complaining about efficiency. You like farming less gold over a longer period of time? Then good for you, that is your oppinion, and that is also how you play the game. You most likely enjoy playing it that way, so more power to you. But I, and many others it seems, are in the same boat where DR is hampering our ability to play. We all play the game differntly, and this illusion that ANET is against grind is wrong. We are now grinding FOR LONGER to afford the things we want, there comes a point where people will say: ‘Dam, I will never afford this skin, what do I have to play for?’ They will leave, and might not ever come back.

On a side topic, I thought Anet employed an economist. Why is it that the ingame economy is so dam broken? Is there any other way to earn money except buy killing mobs and seeling the items obtained?

You might choose to believe it is subjective, but to me, they increased grinding and farming by introducing the DR system. Without it, people would farm far less. It was introduced to combat botting, which is still SO SO SO SO SO prevalent in the game. There ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOO MANY BOTS. The DR system is not heling with the issue, the DR system is not putting a dent in individuals botting and most of all, the DR is hurting genuine players who play with their precious time.

MY TIME SHOULD BE WORTH MUCH MORE THAN THE TIME SPENT INGAME BY A BOT, so why am I being punished for playing the game legitly?

Now back to basics.
- DR drop rate a.k.a Anti Farming Code
- Armor Repairs (WvW included)
- Costly Waypoints
- Harder Dungoens with Repair Point.
and finally the infamous – CASH SHOPS/TP.

Get the picture already? Ok how bout these —> F2P mmos like Perfect World Entertainment or Gamigo games.

Hope you got it now.

B2P? lol now check the list again and ask yourself if its really B2P?
Dont have to answer that cause you already knew it

*Ever wonder that Bots can be made by any pro programmers?
And they could be made the reason for DR too?

You beat the game? You win! Next! I don’t even know what DR is or t3 cultural armor, and I play almost every day since launch. Still lvl 71 or so. Not even close to 100% map completion but I’m not going for that. Games don’t last forever when you play em 12 hours every day.

fen.3102:

You beat the game? You win! Next! I don’t even know what DR is or t3 cultural armor, and I play almost every day since launch. Still lvl 71 or so. Not even close to 100% map completion but I’m not going for that. Games don’t last forever when you play em 12 hours every day.

Maybe you should take the time to real and learn what this terminology means then.

It won’t make your post look so out of place.

No one’s gloating about finishing the game. You’ve totally misunderstood.

You’ve probably been affected by *D*iminuishing *R*eturns, the fact you don’t know what that is, is fine. Don’t come to a thread talking about it if you don’t though. It makes you look silly.

T3 Cultural Armor, is probably some form of armor, I’d imagine. You know what with the word armor and everything in it.

Seriously mate, do some reading then opine on a forum after, it’ll save you lots of trouble in future.

Not much for me to say other than I completely agree with the thread title.

I was fervently reporting bots left and right, going through the tedious process of reporting gold sellers before blocking them… and now I’m left wondering if I should regret my efforts since DR seems to be what it got me.

Needlessly horrible blemish on such a great game.

Lol, I don’t know what’s sadder…the fact that OP thinks he “beat” the game in a month or if he actually did xD

Honestly, if this dude cleared everything that quickly, maybe he needs to cool it with the HARDCORE part of his gaming. Get a girlfriend or something.

If you ask me diminishing returns is an entirely fair system…is it a good, fair solution to the current bot problem? No, I don’t think so.
What would be? If you ask me the best solution is probably to offer normal drop rates, completely unaltered, but limit the number of dungeons you can complete per day or week. Something along those lines anyway, but I would also really hate that system…
Not to mention limiting raids per day hasn’t fixed anything in other online games…

Lets not kid our selves here try as they might there NEVER going to rid the bot program. No game has done it in the last 13 years. But what they CAN do is drop the stupid DR system that punishes regular players and make a human bot banning team that looks into bot reports and bans the botters.

Writing a bot ban program is a stupid Idea, people make a living off these bot programs. They will circumvent the bot program in 2 days tops and were going to be back to square one!

great rant! I totally agree.

Now could you please explain clearly what “DR” stands for so I can understand what you are talking about ?

Rosco.1326:

great rant! I totally agree.

Now could you please explain clearly what “DR” stands for so I can understand what you are talking about ?

Diminishing Returns which means the longer your in a zone the less loot you get until you get nothing at all. DR takes less then 30 minutes to kick in if you do events.

tolunart.2095:

There’s a shiny new sword that you can only get by killing the Green Spotted Bandersnitch that spawns once a month? It’s stats are exactly the same as the weapon a beginning Weaponsmith can craft but it glows blue and shoots off black sparks when it hits something?

A green spotted bandersnitch you say?! Drops a sword that shoots black sparks!? Tell me more for trully this is a prize worth farming.

@op DR is easy to avoid even in Orr. Your problem I suspect is that you are used to make 120g in three weeks. Thats 40 gold a week. You are playing the game too much. That can’t be healthy. Maybe in you next break you can try to get map completion in the real world.

Sam how is it a broken system? If he wants to grind gold all day then so be it. I know this might be a new concept to you but games are meant to be PLAYED ANY WAY A PLAYER SEE"S FIT. This isn’t China there shouldn’t be anyone dictating how you should play!

Uhm yes but within the boundaries with which the game is setup. This is true even in sandbox mmo’s.

I’ve read around the forums, I’ve seen what people are saying. The whiteknights haven’t.

If you were to see the amount of DR related threads and also the threads about DR that go into detail about how it affects legitimate play, say in a dungeon or on the WvWvW field, it wouldn’t take you very long to realise it’s a seriously unpopular idea that has serious implications.

What are the cooldowns on the dungeons.

Got full T3 cultural and did 100% world in month yes Anet you are so cruel to this guy for puting DR in game….

Soulwatcher.2604:

Lets not kid our selves here try as they might there NEVER going to rid the bot program. No game has done it in the last 13 years. But what they CAN do is drop the stupid DR system that punishes regular players and make a human bot banning team that looks into bot reports and bans the botters.

Writing a bot ban program is a stupid Idea, people make a living off these bot programs. They will circumvent the bot program in 2 days tops and were going to be back to square one!

THIS EXACTLY.
What SUCCESSFUL game currently on the market has an Anti-bot-code that effects normal players for playing the game? Is innovating the industry implementing a system that clearly does little to stop the problem it was created for?

The main fact is that Anet made this game and would want to keep its playerbase fairly happy (look at what complaining did to the dungeon token system), if they kept this DR system, people will NOT STOP COMPLAINING. This is a fact. If they removed it, how many people would actually be complaining?

Kimhyuna.1035:

Soulwatcher.2604:

Lets not kid our selves here try as they might there NEVER going to rid the bot program. No game has done it in the last 13 years. But what they CAN do is drop the stupid DR system that punishes regular players and make a human bot banning team that looks into bot reports and bans the botters.

Writing a bot ban program is a stupid Idea, people make a living off these bot programs. They will circumvent the bot program in 2 days tops and were going to be back to square one!

THIS EXACTLY.
What SUCCESSFUL game currently on the market has an Anti-bot-code that effects normal players for playing the game? Is innovating the industry implementing a system that clearly does little to stop the problem it was created for?

The main fact is that Anet made this game and would want to keep its playerbase fairly happy (look at what complaining did to the dungeon token system), if they kept this DR system, people will NOT STOP COMPLAINING. This is a fact. If they removed it, how many people would actually be complaining?

I don’t know how successful DR has been at fighting bots, but it sure is discouraging me from playing the game anymore. If I hadn’t made friends in my current guild, I probably would’ve left already. At this point, GW2 is a shiny chat client to me. I mean, even with full magic find crap on my 80, I can’t find decent gear (ie, anything that sells for more on the market than to an NPC) from any of the dragons, and I’m not farming them. I only do them once a day, if I even bother with it at all.

^My daily cycle:
-Log on 80 ele
-Do ori run
-Farm 3 to 4 events to cap out and to make sure DR has kicked in (normally 40mins to an hour)
-Log out
-Log on 80 War
-Do ori run
-Farm 3 to 4 events
-Log off

Repeat process every 5hrs when Ori nodes reset.
I wish I could effectively use my time to play the game I love, but I loathe the limitations placed on me in terms of how much I can play.

Kimhyuna.1035:

^My daily cycle:
-Log on 80 ele
-Do ori run
-Farm 3 to 4 events to cap out and to make sure DR has kicked in (normally 40mins to an hour)
-Log out
-Log on 80 War
-Do ori run
-Farm 3 to 4 events
-Log off

Repeat process every 5hrs when Ori nodes reset.
I wish I could effectively use my time to play the game I love, but I loathe the limitations placed on me in terms of how much I can play.

You can play all you want. The only thing you can’t do is repeat the same 5 events over and over again and expect the same reward each time.

My hint to you is that once you start throwing around words like “effectively” you already missed the point of this game. I can understand that from your point of view this is the worst thing that could happen to you but if you choose to limit yourself to 2% of the game at level 80 because you insist on being effective or efficient, then you really are in the wrong place.

^2% of the game?
How am I limiting myself to a measly 2% of the game when my character is almost at 100% world completion? How am I limiting myself in the game when I have played through 2 different characters to level 80? Do I HAVE to explore when I feel like I have already explored enough? I WvW when I want to, but its not like a big part of my gameplay with the latency I recieve on my kitteny computer. And most of all, PVP is not for me.

I only farm events and mobs now for one reason, to complete Sunrise. I have the exotics I want, I have the skins I want. I also have a goal. I dont see, personally, how I am limiting myself to 2% of this game only. Especially since I have experianced alot of it already.

I choose to use my time effectively because, midterm break for Uni is over, more time must be allocated to study, rather than to gaming. This is my reason for playing the way I do. I thought the point fo this game was to play it however we liked to. I thought the point of this game was for it not to FEEL like a second job like other mmo’s? Why are you trying to force me to play the game in a way I really cant (as I do not have much free time going forward now)?

Reading is a skill….

I said limiting yourself to 2% AT LEVEL 80. Read it again.

From your post it seems that endgame to you is doing the same handful of events in Orr over and over again.
I don’t really know why but that’s what it sounds like to me. If I misunderstood you, then please explain, why on earth you feel you need to just do the same things over and over again when there are so many more things in the game and places in the game where you can get karma or whatever you need without grinding yourself silly.

Sure, it might take you 3 days instead of 2 but then it’s a MMO and you can take your time.

And you can’t expect a game to cater to everybody’s schedule. That’s just an unrealistic expectation. So what if it takes longer? What’s the rush? Are you afraid the world will end December 21st and you need to get your karma armour complete before that happens? That’s what I don’t get.

Of course a game cannot cater to everything. That’s why some people like it and some don’t.

There was a thread somewhere that someone had posted showing statistics of loot drops with magic find vs without magic find. Apparently stacking magic find boosts your chances of getting any drops by quite a bit.

I wonder if it isn’t the DR that are affecting loot drops so much as it is that no one is running around with magic find gear. Not that that would have any effect on the current dungeon bug but just throwing that out there.

That said, I think I’m going to eventually craft myself a full set of magic find gear and see how this works out. That’s a far off future plan but one that I’m interested in testing out.

I dont know what im going to do after I get my ascalonian catacombs boots tomorrow.

Slowly explore the world and unlock my map?

I guess.

I am not expecting it to cater to my schedule, but when I bought the game, I never expected it to limit what I want to do, even if it means grinding in a zone where all the mobs are of the same type. I expected a gaming experiance in which I could play the game however I wanted to.

I am a different player to you, it seems, in the light that I prefer to be efficient with my time, rather than going around and doing something that wont realistically help me reach my goal any faster. We all know things that waste our time in real life, but do we go ahead anyway? Would I walk to the shops when I could just drive? i understand your viewpoint, but we are two different gamers.

In terms of Orr and grinding the same DE’s. Everyone in these zones, at least on my server, are mainly grinding the same chains constantly, with the occasional Grenth run every hour. There are many events that just are not being touched. We could always downlevel to another area, but I personally find this system unrewarding.

The question I ask you, in return: How effective is the DR-system in combating botting? Why does this anti-bot-code effect legit players, even if they dont play the game the way you do?

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

There was a thread somewhere that someone had posted showing statistics of loot drops with magic find vs without magic find. Apparently stacking magic find boosts your chances of getting any drops by quite a bit.

I wonder if it isn’t the DR that are affecting loot drops so much as it is that no one is running around with magic find gear. Not that that would have any effect on the current dungeon bug but just throwing that out there.

That said, I think I’m going to eventually craft myself a full set of magic find gear and see how this works out. That’s a far off future plan but one that I’m interested in testing out.

Sorry for the double post. But yes, full magic find is a significant difference from normal gear. My ele is Power/tough/vit build while my War runs full magic find. The amount of drops between the two are night and day, though the ele has a much easier time tagging mobs.

Magic find just helps you hit the cap faster.

Well, I can’t answer it exactly since I am not a member of the Anet crew. I simply do not know how effective it is in combatting bots. All I know is that as part of their approach against botting they introduced DR.

You are right though, we are completely different types of gamers. Maybe because I am getting a little older, ahem, I see that for me getting there asap means I am not taking the time to look around and see what else there is. Just my point of view of course.

I agree that the botting problem isn’t solved and I do not know what else Anet is doing against it.

However, you raise a very interesting point.

You said:

Everyone in these zones, at least on my server, are mainly grinding the same chains constantly, with the occasional Grenth run every hour. There are many events that just are not being touched.

I can’t help but wonder if DR wasn’t just introduced as a botting measure. I wonder if Anet also used it as a way to discourage people doing exactly what you describe. What you guys are doing is laying a path for all the level 80s to come. Perhaps they want to discourage people simply from hanging together in the same area all the time.

In a month or two there will be alot more 80s. Will you then get upset that Orr is too laggy because everybody is there with their level 80s? As much as you like there to be choice, the reality is that a lot of people are sheep and will simply follow the lead. In game terms, the people who got to level 80 first are the lead.

Perhaps it would be better to raise rewards for level 80s doing other events, but then that might cause people to completely abandon Orr as it will then “not be worth the trouble”. People will then complain that Orr is too hard for the rewards. At some point you gotta see that the alternative might be worse or create more problems than it solves.

I suspect a lot of peoples problems with DR type grinding issues is that they didn’t play guild wars 1, the point is that there are some items/titles/deeds etc that are meant to take a LONG time to get. And I mean a long time. Most of the stuff in GW2 is easy in comparison. Personally I do not think you SHOULD be able to get a ;legendary without a serious amount of time put in.

If you cant put that time in then relax and do something else, its meant as a reward for people who can, there are plenty of nice skins out there, just go find them. MMO’s are based around time put in, all games are, so if someone else has more time then they will get stuff faster, if you can only put in 3 days then stop whining, thats life, just enjoy playing, and 120g for a legendary is less than i expected.

This game is not meant to be a grind, but there will always be grindy rewards in every game, which is why there is no stat buff for legendarys, its just a prestige thing, and one which would be worthless if it wasn’t stupid hard to manage.

On the skin topic, has anyone found a fiery gladius (NOT a fiery dragon sword) anywhere? and if so, where?

And i suspect you have no idea what you are talking about.

For 1, Dusk, the 150g greatsword, is NOT a legendary, but just a small piece of the recipe to craft one.

And this topic was not created with the intent of whining about not getting a legendary within a week. Nor was it created for kittens who like to tell others what to do with there time.

Its about DR and Time played vs the rewards you get out of it.
Its about there not being any endgame content other then getting a legendary, its about orr being the only worthy lvl80 place and it having only 1 type of mob.
(and then there is the bugged events…)

Its about not wanting the fun to end (already has) discussing the fact that this is supposed to be a no grind game, but since the DR patch, more grinding is needed for achieving the same goal.

And yes, they said that grinding would not be needed to play this game, but nowhere did they say that they would make it impossible to do just that.

IMHO disabling the mail system permanently would have been a far better option then this whole DR system, and then they could focus on bugs, optimization and new content.

THIS EXACTLY.
What SUCCESSFUL game currently on the market has an Anti-bot-code that effects normal players for playing the game? Is innovating the industry implementing a system that clearly does little to stop the problem it was created for?

The main fact is that Anet made this game and would want to keep its playerbase fairly happy (look at what complaining did to the dungeon token system), if they kept this DR system, people will NOT STOP COMPLAINING. This is a fact. If they removed it, how many people would actually be complaining?

It affects you if you do those 4 events in a circle for a hour. Maybe you should try to put some’ effort into it and go for other events or w/e from time to time.

Sadly disabling the mailing system isn’t an effective way of stopping RMT from sending gold when you have an auction house or trading post.

They’ll just use that as the medium and factor in the posting fees.

I’ve seen items on the TP that really shouldn’t be as expensive as they are.

You need a dedicated team to actually be in games and looking at them.

ANet can’t have logged into the game in a long time. Go to any server now and go to the “trinity of WPs” in Cursed Shore and on some servers, the bots are starting to out-number the real players.

If you’ve logged in as a dev or management or even just junior staff and had seen this, it would be incredibly alarming.

I can only assume they’re not even slightly aware of the problem, even though they profess to be with their ineffectual forum stickies.

They created this mess. Their design of the game is why bots are increasing. They created THE perfect environment for them.

DEs that just start over and over automatically? Are you mad?
An automated system to keep the automatons in check? Are you mad?

You can’t just throw this massive blanket of DR over the game and think that’s going to suddenly become Kryptonite to all the RMT companies. They’re devious, cunning and very ingenious about breaking a game or bending it to their will. DR is basically treating the whole RMT issue with contempt.

There’s no way you’re taking the problem seriously with these poorly thought-out ideas.

Don’t create automatically starting dynamic events and then be surprised when it’s overrun with bots.

It’s like making an aeroplane out of glass and wondering why it smashes on landing.

Fix the mess you created ANet, as it’s not going to get better, it’s going to get worse.

The posts I am reading over the forum about these issues from players across all servers is painting an even worse picture than I thought.

I urge all the potential nay-sayers to do a bit of reading and see how prolific the problem is, or failing that have a look in the game yourself.

I have looked and I have seen it and it is really off-putting…

And the defenders of the game say “Oh, but give it time. It’s a new fledgling game. They’re working on it.”

Time will only serve to make the problem worse in the game’s current state. It’ll be a dead fledgling game if there are more bots than players. They should have never have created the perfect environment for bots in the first place. Let alone having to be fixing it now.

It’s an oversight of epic proportions.

Smackjack.5071:

THIS EXACTLY.
What SUCCESSFUL game currently on the market has an Anti-bot-code that effects normal players for playing the game? Is innovating the industry implementing a system that clearly does little to stop the problem it was created for?

The main fact is that Anet made this game and would want to keep its playerbase fairly happy (look at what complaining did to the dungeon token system), if they kept this DR system, people will NOT STOP COMPLAINING. This is a fact. If they removed it, how many people would actually be complaining?

It affects you if you do those 4 events in a circle for a hour. Maybe you should try to put some’ effort into it and go for other events or w/e from time to time.

You ‘should’ do this and you ‘should’ do this with the game.

The only thing we ‘should’ be able to do is play the game on our own terms, within reasonable guidelines. A proliferation of bots and nothing to keep them in check matched with a DR system are not reasonable guidelines.

Please can every stop telling us how we have to play this game? You don’t want to let us choose how quickly, how boringly, how intricately, how lazily we want to play the game on our own terms? Fine, it’s not a game anymore.

No other community or developer has tried to force alterations in my play style ever and nor should they be allowed to.

If it’s just a suggestion you can keep it. It’s not helping the real problems. It’s just ignoring the serious problems in the game and that’s going to have a detrimental effect.

And yet, Vizier, all you say is a matter of perception.

This lies not only in what Anet does but also in how you perceive fun. What you want seems to fit more in traditional MMOs.

You are right in saying that it’s about time played vs the reward. I call it RPS. You guys are looking for the optimum Reward Per Second. It’s part of the whole set up of traditional MMOs. Min-maxing and all that stuff.

Now, I am not saying that you cannot like that sort of gameplay. What I am saying is that considering the clear indications from Anet that this was not supposed to be a game that revolves around grind, you still came in and managed to create a grind for yourself.

I still think that the DR system was not just implemented to counter botting activities but also to counter you guys who are playing the game in the opposite way it was intended. Also there you may not be happy but it seems to me that you might want to consider the idea that you are perhaps not the target audience for Anet. Sure, you are free to choose to pick up this game and play it, but I have a strong suspicion that Anet didn’t intend endgame to be reduced to grinding the same 3 events.

Not saying there’s no grind in this game and I agree it will take you a bit longer to achieve the same goals. But the point here is, so what? Let it take a bit longer by doing different events in different areas. So you’ll get 250 karma instead of 378. Maybe you’ll take 3 weeks instead of 2 weeks to get your legendary weapon.

If you did get everything quickly, then what would you do once you got it? You will keep doing the same and complain that there’s not enough content. My view is that because of your playstyle and by choosing a game that was even advertised as not being built around grind, you set yourself up for this.

The fact that you can grind, doesn’t mean that that’s what you are supposed to do or that that’s endgame. That is your personal perception and I do not share it. Some will agree with you and others like myself will not. And I will be as bold to say that the game was probably intended more for people like me than you.

Please understand that when you say that DR causes you to grind more is only true because you feel the need to do this grind. Not because you are required to, to compete but because you want this legendary item asap.

Also the idea that it is impossible is an exaggeration. All you need to do is go to other areas and yes it will slow down a bit when you do this because lower level events give less karma.
But there is much more to this game then karma. All karma armour shares the same look. Dungeons are a place where you can get your armour together much faster and by going to other areas for events to alternate, you would perhaps slow down the karma gain by 10-20% at most. That is not impossible and it’s not taking twice as long.

It’s just a different way of being efficient if you will and yes in total it will reduce your speed a bit. But if you now simply insist on staying in Orr and freaking out over the DR because you cannot get yourself to look outside the Orr area then really you limit yourself and I come to the same conclusion that your playstyle isn’t what this game is built for.

Let me say it once more, I honestly don’t think that botting is the only reason we have DR. I think it also has to do with Anet’s philosophy behind how and why they built the game as it is. I suspect they were also worried that level 80s just farming karma in Orr would create an unbreakable trend. I think they wanted to protect this game from people like you who were basically changing the point and purpose of endgame back to the stone age of MMOs, which is exactly what they wanted to get away from. So break the habit before the masses become level 80 or the future of GW2 endgame is screwed.

I cannot be certain, but to me, that’s what I think is behind this…not just botting.

It’s kitten comments like these from my fellow users that really start to concern me.

Botting is ridiculous at this point – I’m not just seeing it in the usual areas, like Cursed Shore, but in the beginning areas as well. Queensdale has an entire crop of bots, including multi-box bots, that are not just making it difficult to participate in dynamic events, but are also destroying any possibility of using the Trading Post to make money in-game.

Between bots flooding the TP and TP hackers pounding it with buy orders, it’s getting to the point where it’s nearly impossible for a human to play the game and succeed. They’re killing your game.

Bots I’ve observed and reported continue, day after day, to show up and perform their repetitive damage. Without quick and decisive action, your game is going to be slowly dismantled, as bots will make it impossible for humans to play competitively – I’ve watched other games grind to a halt for months because of botting, like Aion.

Please, you need to step up your response time. A bot can do significant harm in this game in a matter of hours – you can’t take days to respond.

(Taken from https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/On-Botting-and-What-We-re-Doing-About-It/page/5)

That is just one of many.

Go and read for yourself. Do it. You’ll learn something. If you can’t see it game yourself then you’re not wanting to see it. You’re wilfully ingorning it, which is equally as damaging.

It’s not going to go away so coming up with small band-aid fixes like “put more effort in to do more events” is not helpful in any way.

You want to play with this mess, go head, that’s fine.

You’ll find the rest of the community won’t be there for much longer with you.

I can say now ANet are the worst development studio, I’ve ever paid money to, at dealing with RMT.

No preparation (DR came after release) and no fore-thought whatsoever about creating a game that was tough for bots to capitalize upon.

I don’t understand how any of this was allowed to happen in the first place. I don’t understand at all.

Again, I encourage you to read your own forums. It makes for some very eye-opening revelations.

Go ahead, say I’m alarmist, say it’s not a serious issue now. Say it’s not getting worse. Continue to deny everything. You’re only making it much worse and encouraging ANet not to act swiftly.

But if a game causes problems only when you foist your own style of play upon it, is it not you that’s causing the problems and not the game?

The game is a somewhat rigid structure – it doesn’t change very often, and when it does it requires a lot of effort on the part of Anet to do so. Changing one’s play style, on the other hand, requires little effort and in the end results in a lot less foolishness like this thread and the whole kerfuffle over DR, which I have yet to experience, being level 80.

By all means, continue to play whatever way you see fit – what others are saying are only suggestions to help you enjoy the game. Just don’t spew so much crap about how awful the game is when you continue your masochistic behaviour.

Gehenna.3625:

Snip

Sure, Gehenna, tell us what we all want. I’ve always wondered what I’ve wanted as a gamer and now I have you to tell me.

Aren’t I the lucky one!

Open your eyes read the forums and see that the game is heading in a really bad direction fast.

Or don’t and continue on this delusional path you seem to want to go down. It’s not going to end well.

Gehenna.3625:

And yet, Vizier, all you say is a matter of perception.

This lies not only in what Anet does but also in how you perceive fun. What you want seems to fit more in traditional MMOs.

You are right in saying that it’s about time played vs the reward. I call it RPS. You guys are looking for the optimum Reward Per Second. It’s part of the whole set up of traditional MMOs. Min-maxing and all that stuff.

Now, I am not saying that you cannot like that sort of gameplay. What I am saying is that considering the clear indications from Anet that this was not supposed to be a game that revolves around grind, you still came in and managed to create a grind for yourself.

I still think that the DR system was not just implemented to counter botting activities but also to counter you guys who are playing the game in the opposite way it was intended. Also there you may not be happy but it seems to me that you might want to consider the idea that you are perhaps not the target audience for Anet. Sure, you are free to choose to pick up this game and play it, but I have a strong suspicion that Anet didn’t intend endgame to be reduced to grinding the same 3 events.

Not saying there’s no grind in this game and I agree it will take you a bit longer to achieve the same goals. But the point here is, so what? Let it take a bit longer by doing different events in different areas. So you’ll get 250 karma instead of 378. Maybe you’ll take 3 weeks instead of 2 weeks to get your legendary weapon.

If you did get everything quickly, then what would you do once you got it? You will keep doing the same and complain that there’s not enough content. My view is that because of your playstyle and by choosing a game that was even advertised as not being built around grind, you set yourself up for this.

The fact that you can grind, doesn’t mean that that’s what you are supposed to do or that that’s endgame. That is your personal perception and I do not share it. Some will agree with you and others like myself will not. And I will be as bold to say that the game was probably intended more for people like me than you.

Please understand that when you say that DR causes you to grind more is only true because you feel the need to do this grind. Not because you are required to, to compete but because you want this legendary item asap.

Also the idea that it is impossible is an exaggeration. All you need to do is go to other areas and yes it will slow down a bit when you do this because lower level events give less karma.
But there is much more to this game then karma. All karma armour shares the same look. Dungeons are a place where you can get your armour together much faster and by going to other areas for events to alternate, you would perhaps slow down the karma gain by 10-20% at most. That is not impossible and it’s not taking twice as long.

It’s just a different way of being efficient if you will and yes in total it will reduce your speed a bit. But if you now simply insist on staying in Orr and freaking out over the DR because you cannot get yourself to look outside the Orr area then really you limit yourself and I come to the same conclusion that your playstyle isn’t what this game is built for.

Let me say it once more, I honestly don’t think that botting is the only reason we have DR. I think it also has to do with Anet’s philosophy behind how and why they built the game as it is. I suspect they were also worried that level 80s just farming karma in Orr would create an unbreakable trend. I think they wanted to protect this game from people like you who were basically changing the point and purpose of endgame back to the stone age of MMOs, which is exactly what they wanted to get away from. So break the habit before the masses become level 80 or the future of GW2 endgame is screwed.

I cannot be certain, but to me, that’s what I think is behind this…not just botting.

Lets just assume that your opinion is the correct one and that everything you have said is exactly spot on.

The situation will boil down to basically 2 resolutions.

1 ) You are correct, ANET leaves the DR in place, a section of players who feel aggrieved by the DR, stop playing and leave the game.

2 ) You are incorrect, ANET decides the DR is a mistake, removes it, a section of players who were aggrieved, no longer are, and continue to play the game.

Which resolution do you think ANET would prefer? I guess time will tell.

Vermillion Hawk.9037:

But if a game causes problems only when you foist your own style of play upon it, is it not you that’s causing the problems and not the game?

The game is a somewhat rigid structure – it doesn’t change very often, and when it does it requires a lot of effort on the part of Anet to do so. Changing one’s play style, on the other hand, requires little effort and in the end results in a lot less foolishness like this thread and the whole kerfuffle over DR, which I have yet to experience, being level 80.

I’m not trying to do anything different than I’ve done in 10+ years. Anyway, my point is that I refuse to play the game, not really because of the DR, mainly as DEs are infested with bots.

The argument “which I have yet to experience” is a very redundant one when this forum and the whole bug forum is full of innocent people, with innocent play styles being unfairly punished in PvE, Dungeons, WvWvW. I’ll cite the 50+ genuine posts if you really want me to.

Or you could read yourself. You can’t have done that or this wouldn’t be your response.

Just because something it not happening to you does not mean it’s not happenig to other people.

I don’t have AIDS. It doesn’t mean there isn’t an AIDS epidemic in South Africa affecting greater than 5% of the population, does it?

It’s nothing at all to do with play style and, why oh why, is everyone trying to alter my playstyle? Could you please stop?

I’ll play as quickly, as statically, as hardcore, as softcore, as frenetically, as lazily as I want. I should always have this option.

The last problem ANet has is my playstyle. In their attempts to curb my playstyle or alter it, they’ve really implement some ideas that have damaging and lasting effects on the game.

It’s definitely not me doing that. I’m not even playing.

The DR really doesn’t affect me that badly. It has affected me. With a little application I can circumvent these problems, but there … right there… having to circumvent? That’s never good. Anyway, I won’t really going into the DR thing in great detail anymore as it’s not a small amount of people saying it’s an issue.

Those for DR and in a very tiny minority and are make a very bad argument for its inclusion. Namely saying we’re to blame for the inclusion of things like DR.

Ronin.8095:

Gehenna.3625:

Snip

Sure, Gehenna, tell us what we all want. I’ve always wondered what I’ve wanted as a gamer and now I have you to tell me.

Aren’t I the lucky one!

Open your eyes read the forums and see that the game is heading in a really bad direction fast.

Or don’t and continue on this delusional path you seem to want to go down. It’s not going to end well.

It’s a shame that DR was put in place and risen grubs (which I refuse to fight now and no one even bothers with the giant event on my server) don’t drop anything, but Anet will work out a solution since they don’t want GW2 ending up like SWTOR. EA aggressively advertised SWTOR as the WoW killer, but GW2 gained popularity outside of the GW1 crowd because GW1 fans talked up GW2 on 4Chan years ago and how sweet the game was going to be with its features. Word of mouth spread from there to the WoW forums, to other places, and the rest is history. It was mostly level scaling and non-gear grind PvP that made people like this game before it was even released. Yet, DR and other ludicrous mechanics may offset all that.

Gehenna.3625:

And yet, Vizier, all you say is a matter of perception.

This lies not only in what Anet does but also in how you perceive fun. What you want seems to fit more in traditional MMOs.

You are right in saying that it’s about time played vs the reward. I call it RPS. You guys are looking for the optimum Reward Per Second. It’s part of the whole set up of traditional MMOs. Min-maxing and all that stuff.
.

I am not a min/max player. I have tried out every class and sometimes switch from one toon to another when I get bored. I’m trying to pick a “main” but can barely limit myself to five different classes, I’d like to pick up a sixth slot to alternate between Elementalist, Mesmer, Thief, Engineer, Ranger and Warrior. Ok maybe seven for a Guardian. Necros are fun too…

I’ve played toons to level 15 and deleted them because I got tired of the hair style, or wanted to play a Norn Ranger instead of a Sylvari. Then changed my mind and started over with a Sylvari Ranger again.

If you don’t like the way I play, I couldn’t care less. It’s my game. I like exploring, doing stuff because it’s fun, and beyond having enough money on hand to pay for repairs I don’t worry about loot. I read something about no one uses longbows because short bows do better damage. My highest level toon right now is a Norn Ranger with a longbow. I haven’t deleted the lower level Sylvari Ranger yet, I don’t know which one to stick with.

I like the longbow’s AOE attack, but the main reason why I didn’t switch to short bow is that a Norn fighting with what looks like Cupid’s tiny bow is kind of silly looking. I know the short bow has a better ROF and everything, but I’d rather not use it.

This game could have been called “An MMO Made Just for Tolunart” and I wouldn’t be surprised. I like the concepts behind it and the way it plays. I know, however, that not everyone is going to like it the way it is and that’s ok. There are a lot of games out there. There’s one out there somewhere that is “An MMO Made Just for ______”

Good luck finding it.

Vizier.3164:

And thats just awesome, cause i currently have only 3 days a week that i can really play (farm). And after just an hour of farming in orr i am getting screwed with DR… :@
How is that fair? Dusk is on the kitten TP for 150gold! Do you want me to buy gold from the bots or something? Cause i am sure as hell not spending my money on gems unless they go down in price, allot.

You get rid of bots by making gems so cheap that its no longer worth for them to bot. Now you are just screwing your playerbase.

I am rather annoyed and bored with this game right now, witch is really ashame, its been a great start, but after getting a full t3 cultural gear set, and doing world completion, now what am i supposed to do?
Dont like pvp, cant play wvw cause obviously you dont like my amd cpu, wont do dungeons cause i keep getting the permanent dr bug, cant even dream of affording a legendary… :@

So now what?

/rant over

Ummm you could stop playing so much. An hour a day at most, wait a week an only play on the weekends a few hours 3 max. I’ve been playing since the start and I’m still only level 38. More fun taking it slow and enjoying the ride instead of pressing the gas peddle to the floor at 100mph or more.

tolunart.2095:

If you don’t like the way I play, I couldn’t care less. It’s my game.

So that’s applicable for you, but not for other people is it? From what I can read from your replies here, when I say that, I’m wrong. You push this point home and it’s fine is it?

See this kind of imbalance makes it nearly impossible to have a reasoned discussion with people about the game.

It’s one rule for you and one rule for others.

I could say exactly what you said there and easily use it to defend my position to play any way I see fit and not be punished for it.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. READ. YOUR. OWN. FORUMS.

It is affecting lots of people in very innocent ways, none of which is to do with “playstyle” or any of these other smoke and mirrors you want to try to put up.

All you’re doing is deflecting away from the real problems.

Bots are proliferating. Destroying the DE environment. People are started to get annoyed and not just annoyed – voiciferous with their annoyance.

Acknowledge there is a problem and you might be able to fix it.

Or carry on being deluded and end up having a gaming that literally is “just for you.”

ravinhood.3981:

Vizier.3164:

And thats just awesome, cause i currently have only 3 days a week that i can really play (farm). And after just an hour of farming in orr i am getting screwed with DR… :@
How is that fair? Dusk is on the kitten TP for 150gold! Do you want me to buy gold from the bots or something? Cause i am sure as hell not spending my money on gems unless they go down in price, allot.

You get rid of bots by making gems so cheap that its no longer worth for them to bot. Now you are just screwing your playerbase.

I am rather annoyed and bored with this game right now, witch is really ashame, its been a great start, but after getting a full t3 cultural gear set, and doing world completion, now what am i supposed to do?
Dont like pvp, cant play wvw cause obviously you dont like my amd cpu, wont do dungeons cause i keep getting the permanent dr bug, cant even dream of affording a legendary… :@

So now what?

/rant over

Ummm you could stop playing so much. An hour a day at most, wait a week an only play on the weekends a few hours 3 max. I’ve been playing since the start and I’m still only level 38. More fun taking it slow and enjoying the ride instead of pressing the gas peddle to the floor at 100mph or more.

Umm, you could stop telling me how quickly or slowly I play the game. Not everyone experiences or wants to experience a game the way you do.

To push the way you play on other people, is never a good idea.

If you want to take it at a leisurely pace. That’s fine. I’m not going to tell you to change. I’d appreciate if you left my style of play alone too.

All these critiques on “playstyle” take a backseat to the massive problems that are in the game.

All evidence of this is right here in this forum. If you’re all too lazy to dig these examples out, I can do it for you! This post is going to get very long, very fast with quotations from other gamers.

“Playstyle” is the least of everyone’s concerns and is just a distraction.

Take a look at the real issues. It’s also your game they’re affecting.

The game is set up to support my style of play.

The game is not set up to support min/max style of play.

If you want to play min/max you will be disappointed.

I’m not telling you that you can’t do it, I’m telling you that you will be disappointed with the results.

There are many games that support min/max play. Rift does, to a great degree, and while I like playing Rift, I feel more at home in GW2. I find this game far more satisfying.