Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Wildkitten.3872:

I don’t see it as a bad design choice.

The events task is bad design for one reason. The event scaling system, especially in the older zones, is not robust enough to deal with large numbers of players. ANet should have known that — at least in prime times — there were going to be too many players at events. They should also have known that event scaling wasn’t going to be able to handle them.

Wildkitten.3872:

I see players who want to follow the mob to whatever events the mob is doing and then complaining they missed out as the ones who are doing something wrong. There are always multiple events going on in a zone and I myself go to places where the mob isn’t and always finish quickly.

The problem with that workaround is that if more people do as you suggest, it’s likely everyone is going to have a harder time finding an event in progress. I used to do the “any events” or “regional events” tasks in underused zones. I couldn’t go anywhere without tripping over an event or even a chain. Now, if I wander the chosen zone, sometimes I get lucky, but sometimes I can cross three quarters of the zone and see no events at all. If you’re getting lucky all the time, then congratulations.

Wildkitten.3872:

And the reason people ask “Any Events?” is because they don’t want to search themselves and go to the mob.

The reason people don’t want to search for themselves is because they want to finish the task ASAP and they think going to chat-linked events will accomplish that goal. As was pointed out above, that type of behavior is typical to many MMO players. Outnumbering events has been a wide-spread thing in this game since very shortly after launch. It’s one thing to foster that behavior in zones where the scaling is more robust. It’s another to do so in zones where the scaling is so anemic.

No, it is NOT a fact that it’s a bad design as you try to claim. The event system certainly is robust enough as the maps have always been tuned for a certain number of players before a new overflow map is created and has been since day 1. If people spread out there would simply be no issue.

And no, people won’t have that issue. I’ve been in full maps before where people were spread out and got events just fine.

And people may think they by asking in map chat it’s going faster but the opposite is true. By asking in map chat rather than just looking for events and going to where the mob is, they are in fact likely slowing themselves down. Just because it’s typical behavior doesn’t mean it’s the right behavior.

Ashen.2907:

I would appreciate the event dailies if they were about encouraging people to play together, to cooperate in a shared game world. Unfortunately, in my experience they are more about putting players into conflict, competing for event credit.

Only players put themselves in conflict. Players don’t have to be in the same group with each other to receive credit like in most games and if a player insists on following a huge mob around and missing events while there are events going on with only a player or two on them, that’s on the player, not the design.

A good example is Snowden Drifts. Players rush around in a mob mentality while the jumping puzzle in the zone has no one, or 1 or 2 players at the most, at it. The vet who spawns there counts as an event when killed. The JP is very easy to complete, not difficult in the slightest to get to. But too many people have in mind that they “have” to follow the zerg to get events done.

Wildkitten.3872:

Ashen.2907:

I would appreciate the event dailies if they were about encouraging people to play together, to cooperate in a shared game world. Unfortunately, in my experience they are more about putting players into conflict, competing for event credit.

Only players put themselves in conflict. Players don’t have to be in the same group with each other to receive credit like in most games and if a player insists on following a huge mob around and missing events while there are events going on with only a player or two on them, that’s on the player, not the design.

A good example is Snowden Drifts. Players rush around in a mob mentality while the jumping puzzle in the zone has no one, or 1 or 2 players at the most, at it. The vet who spawns there counts as an event when killed. The JP is very easy to complete, not difficult in the slightest to get to. But too many people have in mind that they “have” to follow the zerg to get events done.

You do not have to be in a mob or zerg in order for the current system to create the circumstance I described.

If I followed folks who ask in map chat for events, usually it was over by the time I could get there so rather than be frustrated, I just look for the lesser events and get them done.

I usually check the wiki for the area and go for the lesser known events. There are plenty out there that if you know where they are you can get there and get stuff done fairly quickly. The dailies have cycled through enough times that I usually know where to go on those maps and get the daily done each time it comes up.

Ashen.2907:

Wildkitten.3872:

Ashen.2907:

I would appreciate the event dailies if they were about encouraging people to play together, to cooperate in a shared game world. Unfortunately, in my experience they are more about putting players into conflict, competing for event credit.

Only players put themselves in conflict. Players don’t have to be in the same group with each other to receive credit like in most games and if a player insists on following a huge mob around and missing events while there are events going on with only a player or two on them, that’s on the player, not the design.

A good example is Snowden Drifts. Players rush around in a mob mentality while the jumping puzzle in the zone has no one, or 1 or 2 players at the most, at it. The vet who spawns there counts as an event when killed. The JP is very easy to complete, not difficult in the slightest to get to. But too many people have in mind that they “have” to follow the zerg to get events done.

You do not have to be in a mob or zerg in order for the current system to create the circumstance I described.

Well, not sure how you can be competing against someone else for event credit if only another player or two is there. Easy enough to join in.

The gameplay system very much encourages playing together rather then competing as the fact that one does not have to be grouped together to share an event or even a kill proves.

Also guys, as has been said countless times before, if you don’t like the event completer daily, do a different one. There are LOTS to choose from and you only need to complete three.

This is like getting angry because you don’t like that a restaurant gave you ketchup with your fries. Don’t eat the ketchup, have ranch instead and get on with your life. Problem solved.

If you don’t like a specific type of content that’s in the game (event completer dailies) then the answer for you is quite simple: pick a different daily and get on with your life. Don’t ruin it for everyone else just because you don’t want to participate.

Wildkitten.3872:

Ashen.2907:

Wildkitten.3872:

Ashen.2907:

I would appreciate the event dailies if they were about encouraging people to play together, to cooperate in a shared game world. Unfortunately, in my experience they are more about putting players into conflict, competing for event credit.

Only players put themselves in conflict. Players don’t have to be in the same group with each other to receive credit like in most games and if a player insists on following a huge mob around and missing events while there are events going on with only a player or two on them, that’s on the player, not the design.

A good example is Snowden Drifts. Players rush around in a mob mentality while the jumping puzzle in the zone has no one, or 1 or 2 players at the most, at it. The vet who spawns there counts as an event when killed. The JP is very easy to complete, not difficult in the slightest to get to. But too many people have in mind that they “have” to follow the zerg to get events done.

You do not have to be in a mob or zerg in order for the current system to create the circumstance I described.

Well, not sure how you can be competing against someone else for event credit if only another player or two is there.

Yes, but not being part of a mob does not mean that a mob or zerg are not present when you are trying to do an event.

If I go somewhere to do an event and one of those one or two other people ping the soon to be active event for others, and a zerg subsequently shows up…

It has happened enough times for me to stop pursuing event dailies.

Wildkitten.3872:

No, it is NOT a fact that it’s a bad design as you try to claim. The event system certainly is robust enough as the maps have always been tuned for a certain number of players before a new overflow map is created and has been since day 1. If people spread out there would simply be no issue.

And no, people won’t have that issue. I’ve been in full maps before where people were spread out and got events just fine.

And people may think they by asking in map chat it’s going faster but the opposite is true. By asking in map chat rather than just looking for events and going to where the mob is, they are in fact likely slowing themselves down. Just because it’s typical behavior doesn’t mean it’s the right behavior.

I’m unsure what region you play in, or at what time you do the daily events task. I expect that there are peak times and valley times in the two server clusters and that the typical experience may vary depending on when one tries to do the event task.

In NA, in the 3-4 hours after the daily reset, my experience has been that I can wander much of the map without finding any events — or I can map to the chat calls and live with the behavior that ensues as players attack empty spawn points and kill the mobs as they appear, before they get to move. Usually I make the third choice and go to WvW.

You’re free to think that deliberately creating a system that is going to result in players grossly outnumbering event scaling is fine. I don’t. Players have zerged content in GW2 since long before the current daily iteration. ANet had to know about that behavior. Design that is fine only if players behave atypically does not strike me as good design.

There’s something I don’t get. If it’s your preference to wander around finding events by yourself, and maybe seeing another player or two, you could do that better if players spread out more. Why would you care if the events task was regional?

drunkenpilot.9837:

Also guys, as has been said countless times before, if you don’t like the event completer daily, do a different one. There are LOTS to choose from and you only need to complete three.

This is like getting angry because you don’t like that a restaurant gave you ketchup with your fries. Don’t eat the ketchup, have ranch instead and get on with your life. Problem solved.

If you don’t like a specific type of content that’s in the game (event completer dailies) then the answer for you is quite simple: pick a different daily and get on with your life. Don’t ruin it for everyone else just because you don’t want to participate.

sadly, we’ve been saying that for years.. no one cares, they prefer to let everyone know how ketchup ruined their fries

notebene.3190:

Kinda related, but…

Today one of the things I can do is a Jumping Puzzle in Southsun Cove called ‘Under New Management’. I seem to recall there were two there, one was easy by where you ported in, and the other was that ‘timey-jumpy’ one.

How do I know which is which? I don’t recall jumping puzzles having names (3 weeks into not having played for 15 months before that)?

In Southsun Cove there’s “Under New Management” and “Skipping Stones”. They are named in the jumping puzzle achievements, so you can track which ones you’ve completed, and if you look at the Wiki for the related zone you can find the names there. They usually have pretty “obvious” names.. In this case the one where you skip across stones on time, is called “Skipping Stones” and “Under New Management” is the easier one.
Going with your example go to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Southsun_Cove and scroll down to “Locations”, the jumping puzzles have a green puzzle icon infront of them.

You can also search for the name in your achievement panel, and the related achievement will provide you with a description of said jumping puzzle. This usually gives you a pretty good idea of which puzzle it is.
Hope this helps!

I virtually never do a daily zone event daily because they take too long. It’s much faster not to. There are other, better options.

Amaimon.7823:

drunkenpilot.9837:

Also guys, as has been said countless times before, if you don’t like the event completer daily, do a different one. There are LOTS to choose from and you only need to complete three.

This is like getting angry because you don’t like that a restaurant gave you ketchup with your fries. Don’t eat the ketchup, have ranch instead and get on with your life. Problem solved.

If you don’t like a specific type of content that’s in the game (event completer dailies) then the answer for you is quite simple: pick a different daily and get on with your life. Don’t ruin it for everyone else just because you don’t want to participate.

sadly, we’ve been saying that for years.. no one cares, they prefer to let everyone know how ketchup ruined their fries

Or, some of us actually care and won’t roll over quietly for bad/questionable/undesirable design choices that promote frustrating gameplay. So we pull double shifts: we don’t do the shoddy event daily, and we give ANet advice on how to refine the idea.

To echo someone more considerate and articulate in these matters than myself (and to get away from the tragic analogy of crisps):

In NA, in the 3-4 hours after the daily reset, my experience has been that I can wander much of the map without finding any events — or I can map to the chat calls and live with the behavior that ensues as players attack empty spawn points and kill the mobs as they appear, before they get to move. Usually I make the third choice and go to WvW.

You’re free to think that deliberately creating a system that is going to result in players grossly outnumbering event scaling is fine. I don’t. Players have zerged content in GW2 since long before the current daily iteration. ANet had to know about that behavior. Design that is fine only if players behave atypically does not strike me as good design.

So, long story short, you’re frustrated by the course but don’t want to follow another course to the same reward. Then what do you expect of us here?

Amaimon.7823:

So, long story short, you’re frustrated by the course but don’t want to follow another course to the same reward. Then what do you expect of us here?

Read. The text. That has been written. Already.

I can’t make this simpler.

Some go to WvW. I zip into PvP. I get the rewards.

This isn’t about the rewards.

It’s almost as if the daily zone event was explicitly designed to be frustrating so that players would be forced into other game modes. (#tinhat)

Ashen.2907:

I would appreciate the event dailies if they were about encouraging people to play together, to cooperate in a shared game world. Unfortunately, in my experience they are more about putting players into conflict, competing for event credit.

I’d like to introduce you to a new game, Guild Wars 2, which improved on previous MMO design by allowing all players who participate in open world content to receive credit!

Unlike other games, other players can’t steal your kills, or your gathering nodes, as you both receive equal rewards from them!

So… unless you mean that you run around and events are completed before you get there, nobody is competing for event credit with you. They are simply completing events.

If you do mean that they are complete before you get there, I’m not sure what else to suggest, since this is observably not a problem for many, many people on many, many maps.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Ashen.2907:

I would appreciate the event dailies if they were about encouraging people to play together, to cooperate in a shared game world. Unfortunately, in my experience they are more about putting players into conflict, competing for event credit.

I’d like to introduce you to a new game, Guild Wars 2, which improved on previous MMO design by allowing all players who participate in open world content to receive credit!

Unlike other games, other players can’t steal your kills, or your gathering nodes, as you both receive equal rewards from them!

So… unless you mean that you run around and events are completed before you get there, nobody is competing for event credit with you. They are simply completing events.

If you do mean that they are complete before you get there, I’m not sure what else to suggest, since this is observably not a problem for many, many people on many, many maps.

Perhaps I can introduce you to a game called Guild Wars 2 where event mobs can be instantaneously destroyed before everyone attempting to participate in the event can get credit or where events can be completed in seconds while players attempt to participate. Competition. He with the fastest activating AoE wins.

“this has been, observably, a problem for many, many people on many, many maps…” as reported in numerous posts and threads on the forums in addition to complaints in game since implementation of the current iteration of dailies.

Personally I find that just skipping the event dailies is a fine solution. I do some gathering, hit a vista, and then head to WvW…done in a very few minutes without a problem. I just wish that the event system handled the current iteration of dailies better.

The original dailies system was better (and sadly part of what convinced me to buy the game…). The whole purpose of having dailies in games is to give people who need defined goals to be happy, something to DO every day. Therefore it would make sense to have as wide a variety of dailies possible, so your game appeals to all types of people who play the game.

Dailies also help the bean counters at the company, because Player Login = Advertisements Seen AND/OR Engaged Customer = Potential Gem Sales = Potential Revenue.

That’s why I really don’t understand why they changed the dailies to the current system that essentially shuts out people, because the reality is that most people simply won’t do things in games that they don’t find enjoyable. Rather, they log into some other game where they become some other company’s potential revenue source.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Wildkitten.3872:

No, it is NOT a fact that it’s a bad design as you try to claim. The event system certainly is robust enough as the maps have always been tuned for a certain number of players before a new overflow map is created and has been since day 1. If people spread out there would simply be no issue.

And no, people won’t have that issue. I’ve been in full maps before where people were spread out and got events just fine.

And people may think they by asking in map chat it’s going faster but the opposite is true. By asking in map chat rather than just looking for events and going to where the mob is, they are in fact likely slowing themselves down. Just because it’s typical behavior doesn’t mean it’s the right behavior.

I’m unsure what region you play in, or at what time you do the daily events task. I expect that there are peak times and valley times in the two server clusters and that the typical experience may vary depending on when one tries to do the event task.

In NA, in the 3-4 hours after the daily reset, my experience has been that I can wander much of the map without finding any events — or I can map to the chat calls and live with the behavior that ensues as players attack empty spawn points and kill the mobs as they appear, before they get to move. Usually I make the third choice and go to WvW.

You’re free to think that deliberately creating a system that is going to result in players grossly outnumbering event scaling is fine. I don’t. Players have zerged content in GW2 since long before the current daily iteration. ANet had to know about that behavior. Design that is fine only if players behave atypically does not strike me as good design.

There’s something I don’t get. If it’s your preference to wander around finding events by yourself, and maybe seeing another player or two, you could do that better if players spread out more. Why would you care if the events task was regional?

I’m in NA as well and on at the same times you are. There are plenty of events going on at the same time in the daily event zone.

Part of the issue is also a person’s computer system if you aren’t seeing mobs spawn. That’s something Anet can’t control.

It’s not that I care if the event is regional or not, but when it was regional people complained about. What I do hate is people who claim as fact that something is bad design because they personally don’t like it. Sorry, it’s not a bad design and the zones are designed with a maximum population limit and when that limit hits, a new overflow map is created.

The reality is this is a player created issue and one where people would rather complain then actually do something that benefits them.

Rauderi.8706:

Amaimon.7823:

drunkenpilot.9837:

Also guys, as has been said countless times before, if you don’t like the event completer daily, do a different one. There are LOTS to choose from and you only need to complete three.

This is like getting angry because you don’t like that a restaurant gave you ketchup with your fries. Don’t eat the ketchup, have ranch instead and get on with your life. Problem solved.

If you don’t like a specific type of content that’s in the game (event completer dailies) then the answer for you is quite simple: pick a different daily and get on with your life. Don’t ruin it for everyone else just because you don’t want to participate.

sadly, we’ve been saying that for years.. no one cares, they prefer to let everyone know how ketchup ruined their fries

Or, some of us actually care and won’t roll over quietly for bad/questionable/undesirable design choices that promote frustrating gameplay. So we pull double shifts: we don’t do the shoddy event daily, and we give ANet advice on how to refine the idea.

To echo someone more considerate and articulate in these matters than myself (and to get away from the tragic analogy of crisps):

In NA, in the 3-4 hours after the daily reset, my experience has been that I can wander much of the map without finding any events — or I can map to the chat calls and live with the behavior that ensues as players attack empty spawn points and kill the mobs as they appear, before they get to move. Usually I make the third choice and go to WvW.

You’re free to think that deliberately creating a system that is going to result in players grossly outnumbering event scaling is fine. I don’t. Players have zerged content in GW2 since long before the current daily iteration. ANet had to know about that behavior. Design that is fine only if players behave atypically does not strike me as good design.

Once again, not a bad design. Just don’t follow the mob. More than one event happens at the same time in the zone.

Ashen.2907:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Ashen.2907:

I would appreciate the event dailies if they were about encouraging people to play together, to cooperate in a shared game world. Unfortunately, in my experience they are more about putting players into conflict, competing for event credit.

I’d like to introduce you to a new game, Guild Wars 2, which improved on previous MMO design by allowing all players who participate in open world content to receive credit!

Unlike other games, other players can’t steal your kills, or your gathering nodes, as you both receive equal rewards from them!

So… unless you mean that you run around and events are completed before you get there, nobody is competing for event credit with you. They are simply completing events.

If you do mean that they are complete before you get there, I’m not sure what else to suggest, since this is observably not a problem for many, many people on many, many maps.

Perhaps I can introduce you to a game called Guild Wars 2 where event mobs can be instantaneously destroyed before everyone attempting to participate in the event can get credit or where events can be completed in seconds while players attempt to participate. Competition. He with the fastest activating AoE wins.

“this has been, observably, a problem for many, many people on many, many maps…” as reported in numerous posts and threads on the forums in addition to complaints in game since implementation of the current iteration of dailies.

Personally I find that just skipping the event dailies is a fine solution. I do some gathering, hit a vista, and then head to WvW…done in a very few minutes without a problem. I just wish that the event system handled the current iteration of dailies better.

Once again, that only can happen if you follow the zerg. If you don’t wish to go away from the zerg and find all the many other events going on at the same time, well, can’t help you with that, but that doesn’t make it a design flaw. It’s your personal choice.

Tatwi.3562:

The original dailies system was better (and sadly part of what convinced me to buy the game…). The whole purpose of having dailies in games is to give people who need defined goals to be happy, something to DO every day. Therefore it would make sense to have as wide a variety of dailies possible, so your game appeals to all types of people who play the game.

Dailies also help the bean counters at the company, because Player Login = Advertisements Seen AND/OR Engaged Customer = Potential Gem Sales = Potential Revenue.

That’s why I really don’t understand why they changed the dailies to the current system that essentially shuts out people, because the reality is that most people simply won’t do things in games that they don’t find enjoyable. Rather, they log into some other game where they become some other company’s potential revenue source.

This post makes me think you haven’t even logged in in a long time.

Dailies now don’t shut people out, they are more inclusive than ever. It used to be you had to do all the dailies to get the meta, even of game types you didn’t enjoy. Now you only need to complete THREE out of a minimum of 12 (16 during major festivals) to get the meta rewards and full AP. How is that possibly shutting people out? If someone doesn’t want to do event dailies, fine, they don’t have to do them. Every day there is always 3 incredibly easy dailies that can be done and a person can be finished in 5 minutes if they wish to. A vista, some form of gathering (both these first two are on every days daily list), mystic forger, big spender, jumping puzzles were tons of mesmers gladly port to help people, kill a dolyak in WvW, take a monument node. Really easy stuff.

Wildkitten.3872:

Part of the issue is also a person’s computer system if you aren’t seeing mobs spawn. That’s something Anet can’t control.

I see them spawn just fine. They just die as they appear because they’re appearing in ongoing AoE damage from way more players than there are mobs.

It’s not that I care if the event is regional or not, but when it was regional people complained about. What I do hate is people who claim as fact that something is bad design because they personally don’t like it. Sorry, it’s not a bad design and the zones are designed with a maximum population limit and when that limit hits, a new overflow map is created.

The issue has nothing to do with zone population limits. It has everything to do with designing a task that creates typical player behavior in zones not designed to handle that behavior.

The reality is this is a player created issue and one where people would rather complain then actually do something that benefits them.

The problem with this view is that it absolves the developer of the responsibility for producing compelling, interesting game play. Game design cannot depend on players acting in any way other than what they see as the path of least resistance. If it does, the developer is setting the content up for failure.

ANet has taken steps in newer maps to get players to split up. This shows they recognize that player proclivities are something they ought to take into consideration when designing things for players to do. You’re free to think that they don’t need to do that, but their content design going back at least as far as Marionette suggests they don’t agree.

If the Devs changed the Dailies after Marionette (and I’m too lazy to look up the timeline right now), what does that tell us?

Marionette seemed like a long, long time ago. The most recent change in Dailies, not as long ago. But, of course, I could be mistaken. /shrug

IndigoSundown.5419:

Wildkitten.3872:

Part of the issue is also a person’s computer system if you aren’t seeing mobs spawn. That’s something Anet can’t control.

I see them spawn just fine. They just die as they appear because they’re appearing in ongoing AoE damage from way more players than there are mobs.

It’s not that I care if the event is regional or not, but when it was regional people complained about. What I do hate is people who claim as fact that something is bad design because they personally don’t like it. Sorry, it’s not a bad design and the zones are designed with a maximum population limit and when that limit hits, a new overflow map is created.

The issue has nothing to do with zone population limits. It has everything to do with designing a task that creates typical player behavior in zones not designed to handle that behavior.

The reality is this is a player created issue and one where people would rather complain then actually do something that benefits them.

The problem with this view is that it absolves the developer of the responsibility for producing compelling, interesting game play. Game design cannot depend on players acting in any way other than what they see as the path of least resistance. If it does, the developer is setting the content up for failure.

ANet has taken steps in newer maps to get players to split up. This shows they recognize that player proclivities are something they ought to take into consideration when designing things for players to do. You’re free to think that they don’t need to do that, but their content design going back at least as far as Marionette suggests they don’t agree.

And what about the new maps make players split up? If anything I hear complaining in places like Bloodstone Fen that everyone is at Hab and not enough at the Jades or vice versa.

We do have interesting and compelling game play, but if one thing has been consistent among all games I have played is that the players will take whatever they think are shortcuts regardless of what the devs do.

This entire debate is a good case in point. When they had it in the game what you claim as factual about it being good design, making events regional, people argued that they knew as fact that it was bad design. The whole argument is case in point that no matter what any dev does in any game, people will complain. This is why Anet has done dailies the way they have, to give people choice. If you don’t like the daily event completion you don’t have to do it and give up nothing for not doing it if you choose just three options among the twelve given.

Did the diessa event daily last night. Took like five minutes without any issues. Plenty of events available.

Miss Lana.5276:

notebene.3190:

Kinda related, but…

Today one of the things I can do is a Jumping Puzzle in Southsun Cove called ‘Under New Management’. I seem to recall there were two there, one was easy by where you ported in, and the other was that ‘timey-jumpy’ one.

How do I know which is which? I don’t recall jumping puzzles having names (3 weeks into not having played for 15 months before that)?

Every single jumping puzzle has a name, ever since the game was released (and even before that iirc). They’re in the hero panel, found under General > Jumping Puzzles.

If you don’t know the names of the puzzles, you can always “/wiki Under New Management” while in-game to open the wiki page on it. Or google it. Both are legitimate tactics to quickly and easily find what JP it is.

http://dulfy.net/2012/09/16/gw2-jumping-puzzles-guides-guild-wars-2/

Ayrilana.1396:

Did the diessa event daily last night. Took like five minutes without any issues. Plenty of events available.

Five minutes for four events? I detect hyperbole.

I also suspect it was around Meatoberfest, which is a fairly active event area. Or maybe the little bandit quarter down near the JP.

Overall, Diessa isn’t terrible for events. But that’s Diessa. Try saying that about a zone without a decent event hub or quest chain to follow.

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Did the diessa event daily last night. Took like five minutes without any issues. Plenty of events available.

Five minutes for four events? I detect hyperbole.

I also suspect it was around Meatoberfest, which is a fairly active event area. Or maybe the little bandit quarter down near the JP.

Overall, Diessa isn’t terrible for events. But that’s Diessa. Try saying that about a zone without a decent event hub or quest chain to follow.

It’s just four events with a lot of them being very quick to complete. Another way to complete them quickly is to participate enough in an event to get credit and then announce it on map chat so that others come and finish it while you go do the next.

Ayrilana.1396:

Did the diessa event daily last night. Took like five minutes without any issues. Plenty of events available.

Mine took a little longer, as one of the events was the Giant at Naegling (spelling?), and that alone is about two to three minutes to complete.

But yeah, Diessa was done rather fast.

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Did the diessa event daily last night. Took like five minutes without any issues. Plenty of events available.

Five minutes for four events? I detect hyperbole.

I also suspect it was around Meatoberfest, which is a fairly active event area. Or maybe the little bandit quarter down near the JP.

Overall, Diessa isn’t terrible for events. But that’s Diessa. Try saying that about a zone without a decent event hub or quest chain to follow.

Actually, in zones where the rift stabilizer works, it’s definitely possible to get it done that fast, because each rift triggers a new unstable rift in the vicinity and it’s super-fast to finish them. (tip: find the leftmost purple slot. click one slot to the right of it. repeat until done, typically 2 or 3 clicks, sometimes 4, total time ~ 30 seconds.)

That said … the only zone I ever, ever have trouble with is Frostgorge Sound, and only during the week when it has the highest value map rewards. Otherwise I just follow the event pointer, and do the events, and it’s done in short order. Not five minutes, but less than twenty, sure. Even the HoT meta ones.

I wonder … try this: go to your settings, find the “content guide” dropdown under the general options. Set it to “Disable Personal Story”, which should give you an event indicator pointing to the closest dynamic event in the current map.

See if that helps you find events that are going on, and do them. Also, if you do have lots of competition, remember that you can scroll the minimap and port, or just ask in map chat.

Personally, I find it much more effective to simply start calling out events when I get to them, which usually encourages others to do the same, but you can ask people to do that politely and get great responses. (hint: “events” as a single word is not a polite way to ask. try “if you don’t mind, please call out event locations as they start, for the daily” instead.)

Ultimately, though, if it’s that bad … PvP, WvW, and the other three PvE dailies that are not event completion are available to you. Just skip out on that one if you need to, and do something else.

PPS: I don’t know why people fetishize the FGS map rewards so much. It’s above the other maps in reward, except week 5 Fireheart Rise, but not by so much as to make or break the world, I’d think. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Map_bonus_reward/profit

Rauderi.8706:

Overall, Diessa isn’t terrible for events. But that’s Diessa. Try saying that about a zone without a decent event hub or quest chain to follow.

Overall, I have to agree with this. The low level areas can have events clear well before anyone aside from a couple of folks have a chance to get there. The event completer in Queensdale had my boyfriend and I running around for at least an hour, trying to scout anything.

Maybe we were just unlucky. But I’m hoping they can increase they’ll increase frequency of events in low level maps when they’re lots of people there.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

PPS: I don’t know why people fetishize the FGS map rewards so much. It’s above the other maps in reward, except week 5 Fireheart Rise, but not by so much as to make or break the world, I’d think. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Map_bonus_reward/profit

Q, meet A:

A: Champ farm. :P

Basically, there’s a circle of bosses that the zerg will go murder, which means getting quick map rewards. When highly valued things show up there, the champ train zips around for quick event credit with relatively swift recharges. So when Giant Eyes end up on FGS… You get the picture.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Ultimately, though, if it’s that bad … PvP, WvW, and the other three PvE dailies that are not event completion are available to you. Just skip out on that one if you need to, and do something else.

I do skip zone event completion. I wasn’t even aware yesterday’s was Diessa. My mind just overwrites it with blank space. I have PvP potions saved up, so I just popped one of those to get a reward track bonus, triggered the daily, kept the potion from the box and put that back in my bank.
Easy-peasy.

Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want the zone event thing fixed, but I work around it.

There’s part of me that wants to beg the devs to include a dailies tab for group-instanced PvE as extra options toward the daily. I know, we have enough already, so it’s a “would be nice” thought. An Instance tab could include dungeons (a +1 for the few still doing dungeon runs), raids (encourages more raid groups), and Fractals. Yes, Fractals have their own dailies, so it’s kinda double-dipping, but Fractal dailies also aren’t really connected to anything else, so they can be easily forgotten.
I imagine the chain goes: Oh, daily Fractal is up → Well, since we’re here, let’s finish the T[1-4] daily too → Get more Fractal rewards and AR → End up doing higher Fractal content. Might also be my wishful thinking. :P

They certainly are a lot different from what they used to be. I just came back to the game last night after 2 1/2 years away. I didn’t even get the event one done LOL.

Wildkitten.3872:

And what about the new maps make players split up? If anything I hear complaining in places like Bloodstone Fen that everyone is at Hab and not enough at the Jades or vice versa.

DT, SW, VB, AB, TD and DS all force players to split up to achieve map objectives.

We do have interesting and compelling game play, but if one thing has been consistent among all games I have played is that the players will take whatever they think are shortcuts regardless of what the devs do.

So, players attacking empty space is compelling gameplay? I’ll keep that in mind.

This entire debate is a good case in point. When they had it in the game what you claim as factual about it being good design, making events regional, people argued that they knew as fact that it was bad design. The whole argument is case in point that no matter what any dev does in any game, people will complain. This is why Anet has done dailies the way they have, to give people choice. If you don’t like the daily event completion you don’t have to do it and give up nothing for not doing it if you choose just three options among the twelve given.

I don’t remember a single request for daily events in a single zone. Nor do I remember complaints about regional events except from those who wanted a return to events anywhere. As to giving people choice — dailies and monthlies offered choice as far back as 2013. Modifying the events task does not have to mean sacrificing the good features of the current iteration.

I know what I used to like and I know how I’m reacting now. The events task used to be my favorite part of dailies. Now, I’ll forego daily completion if I can’t find 3 tasks that I want to do other than event completion in a low-to-mid level zone. Maybe I’m unique as a player. Certainly, there are players who only seem to give a kitten about getting their AP ASAP.

Anyway, we’ve been going back and forth with our opinions about what makes good design and what doesn’t. It seems unlikely you’re going to vary from your stance. Also, you aren’t going to convince me that game design that fosters player behavior that makes me think, “That looks silly.” is good design unless you come up a new argument. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

azureai.9764:

Rauderi.8706:

Overall, Diessa isn’t terrible for events. But that’s Diessa. Try saying that about a zone without a decent event hub or quest chain to follow.

Overall, I have to agree with this. The low level areas can have events clear well before anyone aside from a couple of folks have a chance to get there. The event completer in Queensdale had my boyfriend and I running around for at least an hour, trying to scout anything.

Maybe we were just unlucky. But I’m hoping they can increase they’ll increase frequency of events in low level maps when they’re lots of people there.

For queensdale, look for events that have to be initiated such as the champ veteran boar, the grape field one by beetletun, the skelk eggs by Shaemoor, and the one with the NPC that goes to the troll cave. Actually, that last one is two events with the possibility of being four if the troll runestone is available and if the the defend beehive is active when running back with the NPC.

I absolutely despise the current daily achievement. I hate the structure of 3 of 4 with the demands it has, PvP is unacceptable to me so those other 8 do not exist, and happens that I found one of the variations the previous system just really lovely.

After doing one or two of the tasks a day enough to get writs for three tomes I found that too annoying and painful of a process even though I want tomes.
Now I look at it to avoid completing any part of it save for when I did the clocktower which completed festival or activity or something. I destroyed the reward.

The fact that there needs to be entire discussions about how to do a single daily effectively while most other dailies can be intuitively completed already shows how out of tune it is with everything else.

If people want WvW dailies, it takes me all of 2 minutes to show them. If I don’t have the time I just tell them to get a good dps/stealth class and avoid combat. And guess what? They do it without fail even if they don’t do any form of pvp.

I am someone that hasn’t missed a daily unless I haven’t been able to log on at all for the past year. So yes, I can figure it out on my own. Yet I can understand why people are frustrated even though. Stop patronizing people and assuming they’re just all gold/AP chasers that want to be given it by logging in.

Of course they can complete know how to complete a Central Tyria event, but the daily creates specific situations that may or may not happen when you are around. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Even if it happens around 1/3 of the time, that’s enough for me to seek an alternative.

Hint: If an option is out of whack with the others, then maybe there’s legitimate reasons why it gets unpopular. It’s a simple matter of consistency.

It’s the same reason why I think, say it makes little sense for Daily Land Claimer to consist only of 1 sentry, but Daily Camp is 2 camps! Is it hard to take 2 camps? No, not at all, but it’s an inconsistency worth mentioning.

Personally, I view login rewards as the way to fish people in, and the daily tasks as a thing to keep them going for a bit. As an example of an effective zone completer daily would be one of the HoT ones. There’s no shortage of events and the nature of the map encourages players to further participate in the map. If it’s VB at night and you just got yourself up to 100% participation, it makes little sense to just jet out. Might as well wait a little more for the chest. This does have the effect of having people play the game longer because they’re working towards something that goes beyond a daily.

There’s a big difference between people that came for a daily and now are patting themselves on the back for helping with a meta, and people that came for a daily and their response when finishing is “Thank God it’s Over!” Because it’s a game, not waiting at the DMV.

ArchonWing.9480:

The fact that there needs to be entire discussions about how to do a single daily effectively while most other dailies can be intuitively completed already shows how out of tune it is with everything else.

Does it require an entire discussion? To me, it’s just as intuitive to manage event dailies efficiently as many of the others. I’ve seen people complaining about daily miner|logging|gathering (and starting threads about it) and even vistas cause a few people to pause until they learn where the easiest-to-reach ones are located.

The difference for event dailies is that there are so many more ways to do it and people tend focus on what’s in front of them rather than taking a few moments to think about other ways to finish.

Again, I’m not against ANet changing them, although (as I’ve said), I prefer that they don’t waste the time. Better for them to look at event dailies in the context of reevaluating dailies in general.

Regardless of any of our preferences, event dailies are going to be here for at least … a long time. So for those who refuse to consider PvP or WvW dailies (which can be quicker), here are my tips for getting 4 events fast:

• Find a JP you can do (or get ported to) and run it on 4 characters.
• Find a major event chain that scales well: in Frostgorge, you can easily get 3 events during Claw of Jormag and, with some fast footwork, four events before the claw spawns. Every zone has a major chain like this (although some scale better than others).
• Find an event that repeats often and park a toon there. Slower, but a sure thing. Every zone has a couple that do this, including Snowden which has the Champ Troll & Champ Centaur close to each other.
• Ask (nicely) in /map or in the forums for tips on the zones you find challenging to complete in a short period of time. Lots of players are happy to share.
• Work on completing the map: you can’t help but get 4 events (although, of course, not necessarily within 5 minutes).

I used to only do PvE dailies and I never found the event dailies to be difficult to complete. I preferred them to being stuck with e.g. Keg Brawl.

My suggestions aren’t going to make anyone love event dailies; my goal is to help folks complete them with less heartache.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

ArchonWing.9480:

The fact that there needs to be entire discussions about how to do a single daily effectively while most other dailies can be intuitively completed already shows how out of tune it is with everything else.

Does it require an entire discussion? To me, it’s just as intuitive to manage event dailies efficiently as many of the others. I’ve seen people complaining about daily miner|logging|gathering (and starting threads about it) and even vistas cause a few people to pause until they learn where the easiest-to-reach ones are located.

The difference for event dailies is that there are so many more ways to do it and people tend focus on what’s in front of them rather than taking a few moments to think about other ways to finish.

Those I feel are different because Vistas and nodes don’t really move anywhere. Unless you sit in town all day, it’s harder to avoid nodes and vistas than to run into them. (Well, they do at reset and sometimes foraging is troublesome in Ascalon, but alas) But for the most part it doesn’t matter if you take 5 minutes or 50 minutes to reach them, because nobody else can deplete it.

And as a minor note, a lot of the reward nodes that go into home instances also give players a way to do those dailies easily.

And that’s what I think is the main concern. This game, with its personal loot and nodes, and basically personal everything else has generally avoided a big issue with many games of its genre by reducing the need for competition. When you have people competing for limited resource (tags in events in this case), there’s bound to be trouble. When it’s limited to a small area, it gets even worse. We have seen this pop up as an issue repeatedly over the years with Living Story, Orr events, etc.

And as a personal opinion, the game has changed quite a bit since CT zones were made, and given the faster movement of HoT/LS maps, CT maps don’t really keep up with the pace well for a lot of people that have been playing the game longer. Not to mention the power creep that causes mobs to melt even faster.

Again, I’m not against ANet changing them, although (as I’ve said), I prefer that they don’t waste the time. Better for them to look at event dailies in the context of reevaluating dailies in general.

Fair enough, but we don’t really know how much effort it’d be. What if it took only a small amount of time? Obviously if it took longer it’d be a reason, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume they couldn’t.

ArchonWing.9480:

It’s the same reason why I think, say it makes little sense for Daily Land Claimer to consist only of 1 sentry, but Daily Camp is 2 camps! Is it hard to take 2 camps? No, not at all, but it’s an inconsistency worth mentioning.

FYI, in WvW there are usually two easy tasks (Master of Monuments, Land, Dolyak, Big Spender) and two less easy (more time consuming, really) tasks (2 Camps, Tower, Keep, World Ranker). The easy tasks award one jug of reward track XP, the less easy awards 2 jugs.

If you look at the PvE tasks, there are tasks (gathering and vista) that can be done very fast and other tasks that take a bit more time (events, activities). The PvE rewards are varied enough that it’s harder for me to say that the chests award more/better stuff for the more time consuming, but I suspect that ANet thinks so, and that the sPvP tasks can also be viewed as faster and less fast to complete — although sPvP is not my bag.

I think the Devs did address the Daily Event Completion with the advent of Rift Stabilizers. The events are all over maps, take a few seconds to complete, and are available to anyone with a Stabilizer and can’t be completed before the time allotted.

Works great for Dailies, and even better for Map Rewards in places like Frostgorge.

Win/win. =)

IndigoSundown.5419:

ArchonWing.9480:

It’s the same reason why I think, say it makes little sense for Daily Land Claimer to consist only of 1 sentry, but Daily Camp is 2 camps! Is it hard to take 2 camps? No, not at all, but it’s an inconsistency worth mentioning.

FYI, in WvW there are usually two easy tasks (Master of Monuments, Land, Dolyak, Big Spender) and two less easy (more time consuming, really) tasks (2 Camps, Tower, Keep, World Ranker). The easy tasks award one jug of reward track XP, the less easy awards 2 jugs.

If you look at the PvE tasks, there are tasks (gathering and vista) that can be done very fast and other tasks that take a bit more time (events, activities). The PvE rewards are varied enough that it’s harder for me to say that the chests award more/better stuff for the more time consuming, but I suspect that ANet thinks so, and that the sPvP tasks can also be viewed as faster and less fast to complete — although sPvP is not my bag.

Yea, I forgot about the reward chest differences— camp is worth a bit more.

Although that brings up another point. The gathering dailies have a very nice chest— they give you more materials than you would have gathered otherwise for little effort. On the other hand, the event completer gives you https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chest_of_the_Hero_

And I’m not sure if that’s complete but it seems really bad.

I do gather that having better WvW and PvP dailies does encourage people to come on more. I just think there could be more options which is why I brought up Wintersday as the additional selection was very welcome.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I think the Devs did address the Daily Event Completion with the advent of Rift Stabilizers. The events are all over maps, take a few seconds to complete, and are available to anyone with a Stabilizer and can’t be completed before the time allotted.

Works great for Dailies, and even better for Map Rewards in places like Frostgorge.

Win/win. =)

That’s been a good precedent, for sure.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I think the Devs did address the Daily Event Completion with the advent of Rift Stabilizers. The events are all over maps, take a few seconds to complete, and are available to anyone with a Stabilizer and can’t be completed before the time allotted.

Works great for Dailies, and even better for Map Rewards in places like Frostgorge.

Win/win. =)

It’s too bad they couldn’t be bothered to give them a map icon that was somehow different from regular map events.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Wildkitten.3872:

And what about the new maps make players split up? If anything I hear complaining in places like Bloodstone Fen that everyone is at Hab and not enough at the Jades or vice versa.

DT, SW, VB, AB, TD and DS all force players to split up to achieve map objectives.

We do have interesting and compelling game play, but if one thing has been consistent among all games I have played is that the players will take whatever they think are shortcuts regardless of what the devs do.

So, players attacking empty space is compelling gameplay? I’ll keep that in mind.

This entire debate is a good case in point. When they had it in the game what you claim as factual about it being good design, making events regional, people argued that they knew as fact that it was bad design. The whole argument is case in point that no matter what any dev does in any game, people will complain. This is why Anet has done dailies the way they have, to give people choice. If you don’t like the daily event completion you don’t have to do it and give up nothing for not doing it if you choose just three options among the twelve given.

I don’t remember a single request for daily events in a single zone. Nor do I remember complaints about regional events except from those who wanted a return to events anywhere. As to giving people choice — dailies and monthlies offered choice as far back as 2013. Modifying the events task does not have to mean sacrificing the good features of the current iteration.

I know what I used to like and I know how I’m reacting now. The events task used to be my favorite part of dailies. Now, I’ll forego daily completion if I can’t find 3 tasks that I want to do other than event completion in a low-to-mid level zone. Maybe I’m unique as a player. Certainly, there are players who only seem to give a kitten about getting their AP ASAP.

Anyway, we’ve been going back and forth with our opinions about what makes good design and what doesn’t. It seems unlikely you’re going to vary from your stance. Also, you aren’t going to convince me that game design that fosters player behavior that makes me think, “That looks silly.” is good design unless you come up a new argument. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Out of all the zones you mentioned, only DS is designed to have 3 paths done at the same time, but DS is also a different type of zone. Almost a multiplayer story instance. I do AB and the other zones quite often where the main group will go from one thing to another to maximize rewards.

And if you don’t remember when people complained about regional dailies, then you really weren’t paying attention. Many people did.

ArchonWing.9480:

…sometimes foraging is troublesome in Ascalon, but alas)

This one thing is part of the reason why I have an issue with all the complaints. How can foraging be troublesome in Ascalon when there is a potato farm in Ashford that never moves because it is permanent and has been there for years?

This example goes to the real heart of the event debate…people don’t really want to learn the game. They want to rush in and get things done. Problem is, that is often the slowest way to do things.

It also goes to show people will complain about anything. People even complain when Anet gives free things out to everyone.

Wildkitten.3872:

This example goes to the real heart of the event debate…people don’t really want to learn the game.

How many world-class players are there at any given video-game? A handful. Even the biggest games really don’t have that many A-level or Platinum Level players. This turns out to be a natural phenomenon because players play games to relax, not to master, so looking on GW2 wiki to find a potato farm in Ascalon is really not anyone’s given goal.

I don’t think anyone has ever searched “Best way to collect potatoes in GW2”. Though I may very well be wrong. My point is that you aren’t wrong but you expect more than what is reasonable from a source of entertainment. Just because you play Chess does not make you aspire to be a Grandmaster, just because you play a 1 player RPG doesn’t make you aspire to be 100% complete with the world record for some boss on a character no one uses, and just because you play Poker doesn’t mean you want to throw your entire life into betting.

Sometimes it’s just a game.

Wildkitten.3872:

ArchonWing.9480:

…sometimes foraging is troublesome in Ascalon, but alas)

This one thing is part of the reason why I have an issue with all the complaints. How can foraging be troublesome in Ascalon when there is a potato farm in Ashford that never moves because it is permanent and has been there for years?

This example goes to the real heart of the event debate…people don’t really want to learn the game. They want to rush in and get things done. Problem is, that is often the slowest way to do things.

It also goes to show people will complain about anything. People even complain when Anet gives free things out to everyone.

I would say thanks for sharing this knowledge, but apparently you said a bit too much. I’m sure you’re perfectly knowledgeable about all trivia in this game?

I’m not really sure why you had to blow a offhand comment out of proportion to rant about the ills and laziness of the player base. I’ll take responsibility for my own ignorance; you can leave everyone out of this. It’s almost like you had nothing of value to reply otherwise.

I bring up troublesome because Ascalon is far from where I normally am, and it can cost a penny or two more than other locations. I have a lot more valuable plants to gather than potatoes mind you. Plus I don’t like the visuals of the zone itself. These are fairly minor issues, which is why this so called complaint doesn’t have me demanding more nodes in Ascalon.

This one thing is part of the reason why I have an issue with all the responses to complaints. People don’t actually read the entirety of people’s post and make up their intentions.

It also goes to show you that people will defend Anet about anything. Even when the critics aren’t actually hating the game.

Anyhow, thanks anyways. I’ve tried several iterations of this post but found it hard to keep a straight face. So, that was entertaining.

I think I’ve figured out the central argument against the event completer dailies, at least from those who have posted here in this thread:

“Events dailies take too long to do, and I have to run around the game looking for events to get credit. It needs to be removed from the game because myself and a handful of other players don’t want to do them. This isn’t about rewards, this is about my personal opinion on game design.”

Myself and a few others have given equally opinionated versions of why we are in favor of the event completer daily. But those players who dislike doing these achievements (or dislike the fact that the achievements even exist in the first place) don’t want to hear about positive opinions supporting their existence. They want their opinions, and only their opinions validated. Remove this thing from the game that I don’t like, I don’t care if others do like it and I don’t care what their reasons are. I will not back down, for my opinion is the one that’s important.

The players here who support this achievement’s removal will continue to say that their voices and opinions aren’t being heard because there is content in the game that they don’t want to do and even after posting that they don’t want to do it, it’s still here. How dare anyone else have an opinion different from theirs? Bear in mind that they’ve similarly dismissed all positive opinions in favor of these achievements, effectively trying to silence the discussion by pointing out how opinions of others are either less thought out or less important.

Just get on with your life and do a different daily. Seriously, what is the problem with that mentality?

How about this instead:
Tequatl takes too long to complete. I can’t get it done every single day. It needs to be made easier or faster in some way, or maybe players should be able to loot the boss chest and get full event cycle rewards at the start of the event instead of the end, so that way people just there for the rewards can get the stuff and people who just want to kill the dragon can stick around and do that too. But I shouldn’t have to do it if I don’t want to. This isn’t fair, it takes too long, and sometimes it fails! So I’ve spent all the time doing the event and I get nothing for it?! How is that fair?!

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? How entitled I come across?

If I enjoy doing something in a game, I do it. If don’t enjoy doing something, I don’t go to the forums and immediately demand its removal—instead, I go do something else and get on with my life.

I can’t speak for everyone but…

First off, I am sure many people wouldn’t need to have zone completer removed, but another daily to make 5 could be made, for example. It wouldn’t be a big issue. And I suggested a compromise between the two.

Secondly, the more general event/gatherer dailies were how the dailies once were, so some people preferred it that way. Although I guess you had to do 5 so…

And finally, it’s fallacious to assume everyone that doesn’t like the zone completer are incapable of doing other dailies. They probably are doing them when possible, but it actually doesn’t change the comments on the matter. Though I guess this again applies to those that only play a single game mode.

And as a side note, today’s dailies were pretty fast. Took about 10 minutes and half of it was forgetting where the JP was. I liked how 2 of the dailies were connected.