Guild Wars 2

Ursan.7846:

-snip-
Yes, they are dangling a carrot. It’s not true freedom, no, but I think it’s a good thing that Anet subtly herds players into certain things, as long as it’s not too strong-handed.

It’s not carrot dangling if you have a choice to do it. It’s more like a window shopping type of deal. You can see what the days tasks to get a laurel are, and you can choose not to do them, but it is by no means necessary to do them everyday to maintain competitiveness. Arguing this would be fruitless as there is simply no empirical data to support the claim.

Firstly, this is an MMO. Look it up if you dont know what that stands for, but there is a certain degree of expected grouping. That is the reason it did not ship as, nor is it, a single player game. Get used to it. You might also be interested to hear that no one is forcing you to complete dailies each day.

That said, there is absolutely no hand holding or forced grouping involved in these dailies. I finished mine in 30 minutes of an Orr event / the usual 5 minute newb zone trip for kill variety.

Try playing before whining.

Megido.5061:

1) It is realistically impossible to implement a daily system that allows players to pick only the dailies they wish to complete under the parameters Anet have set as precedent.

….er, not true. They’ve actually promised that functionality in a future patch: being able to select 4 from a list of 6 dailies (as an example). So it’s clearly possible.

The player base as a whole both enjoys and dislikes every aspect of the game, which each individual player liking and disliking certain things. There will inevitably come a time where no matter how many toggle able dailies you have, you’ll be ‘forced’ (extreme air quotes hair because this exceeds first world problems) to do a daily you don’t like.

You’re not comprehending properly, so I’ll illustrate what I mean with your example:

I didn’t like Daily Kill Variety. I still don’t like Daily Kill Variety. Does that mean the system as a whole is flawed? No.

Ah, but did Daily Kill Variety force you to play the game differently? I’m willing to wager that’s a no.

Now let’s try a new daily at random….Dodger for example. I’ve gotten rather good at dodging and picking up telegraphed attacks to the point where I can get out of the way of an attack well before it would hit me. But the game only recognizes a “proper” dodge as one in which I stand in the way of the incoming attack and then dart away at the very last moment. So my quick reflexes are actually punished in this regard, as I had to slow down and take way more hits than I normally do in combat just to re-learn dodging with last-second timing like the game wanted, even though it’s obviously better to avoid an incoming attack immediately instead of at the last second.

In other words, I’m having to adjust the way I play the game to complete this achievement.

“Play the way you want to”, indeed, eh?

2)
a)PTR servers don’t fix bugs. The time required to both read player feedback and fix bugs remains the same regardless of their presence but still come with a slew of additional variables that require tending to. In terms of money/time, a PTR for something this minuscule would be an incredible waste of funds.
b)Sure, you can have these issues addressed before launch, but you’ll also have the patch delayed for several days and an immense amount of kitten about an update that isn’t live festering in the forum for weeks.

So? Let them complain.

What is more important: a working release that gets complaints for running late, or a forum full of people complaining about all the bugs? I know which one I’d pick.

3)Only the combo Daily has been confirmed broken and removed to my knowledge.

The veteran slayer achievement is rumored broken (as many players have reported a failure to get “veteran kills” when they killed a veteran-level mob) but it has not yet confirmed.

And if they had tested these things prior to release, the odds would be much greater that they’d have released zero buggy achievements, rather than having an unknown number of them not working quite right. Again, “when it’s ready” doesn’t mean “release it when it’s not fully operational”.

As usual the vocal minority hilariously blows things vastly out of proportion and stands as eternal testament as to why the ’don’t fix what isn’t broken’ mentality is utter tripe.

Always find it interesting when there’s twice as many negative threads as positive ones, and easily that same ratio or more in posters, but people continue to say that it’s the “vocal minority”. This was especially hilarious to observe during the Lost Shores weekend, where it was clearly just the “vocal minority” filling multiple forums and making massively-sized threads full of complaints about bugs, culling, and general frustration.

I myself don’t tend to say that one side or the other is necessarily larger, as there’s no way to prove which is truly bigger. Nor does it really matter. What should matter is the manner in which their complaints/defenses are expressed, and right now, you’re not being very civil about it by just shoving the complaints off to the side as an ignorable minority.

Well, you’re right about one thing. Eventually, so many of these discontent players will have left the game that they will indeed be a “vocal minority”. Of course by then, even if it is realized that maybe some of them had some valid points once in a while, it’ll be far too late to fix it. So it may be best to stop ignoring opinions you disagree with, and start actually trying to have a dialogue with those people instead. Try to understand their points of view rather than ignoring them. The devs can’t make everyone happy, but they ought to think twice before ignoring any opinion, and I would highly recommend you do the same.

critickitten.1498:

“But Ascended gear is optional, too!”, I expect you’re now claiming, to which I shall place the palm of my hand onto my face

critickitten.1498:

Always find it interesting when there’s twice as many negative threads as positive ones, and easily that same ratio or more in posters, but people continue to say that it’s the “vocal minority”.

I think the best reply to both those comments is:

critickitten.1498:

See, these are what we call “assumptions”, and it’s well known what people say about assumptions

Have you ever seen a post in which I claim “Ascended gear is optional, too!”?

Have you ever actually bothered to count how many “negative” and “positive” posters there are on average in all topics in all sections of this forum?

Well?

I get the feeling too many people feel entitled to have the game cater to their specific needs perfectly. It’s just not possible in an MMO to cater to everyone perfectly. I can’t think of a single MMO that doesn’t one way or another make people do things they don’t necessarily enjoy that much in order to get a reward they want (that or have them otherwise go without).

If anything Guild Wars 2 rewards a far larger variety of choices to gain rewards than any other MMO I can think of. They already stated they will add additional ways to get ascended armor in the long run but they want to trickle them into the system slowly.

To be honest I can’t think of any game that is entirely perfect in every way shape and form for a specific persons desires. There’s always something the player wouldn’t mind changed or improved.

The dailies are fine. They take no time at all to do 30 minutes or less (Gendarran Fields is great for kill variety, underwater, events and NPC reviving in bloodfields for example). Regardless of the many many examples I give as to how the dailies could be easily achieved, it’s still beside the point of some peoples posts in this thread.

All I read between the lines here is that people refuse to do anything ever that may require them to do something they don’t entirely enjoy that is easy and fast because they are only willing to do it if it’s perfectly catered to them. I’m sorry but this is incredibly unrealistic and over entitled demand that can’t ever be expected to be realistically forfilled.

Ask for improvements sure, but don’t demand perfection 24/7 with no room for error to be exactly how you alone want it. It’s not going to happen. The game might be set in a fairytale, fantasy world but this game is still tied to the rules of reality, of differing opinions.

Why can’t people just stomach a couple of minutes of doing something different from what they usually do for a reward? I honestly don’t get that…

Erasculio.2914:

critickitten.1498:

“But Ascended gear is optional, too!”, I expect you’re now claiming, to which I shall place the palm of my hand onto my face

critickitten.1498:

Always find it interesting when there’s twice as many negative threads as positive ones, and easily that same ratio or more in posters, but people continue to say that it’s the “vocal minority”.

I think the best reply to both those comments is:

critickitten.1498:

See, these are what we call “assumptions”, and it’s well known what people say about assumptions

I find the best response to this is the following statement:

Address my arguments, rather than creating straw-men.

Have you ever actually bothered to count how many “negative” and “positive” posters there are on average in all topics in all sections of this forum?

Well?

Oh, so I need to go count them all up, now, just to “prove” to you that this is the case? Sorry to inform you, but I don’t actually feel obligated to “prove” much of anything to someone who isn’t addressing my actual points and is creating fictitious and exaggerated ones to attack instead.

I do admit that the daily dodger one is a tough one for me. Not because I don’t know how to, but because since I play alone for the most part (dang my play times) I am not fighting tough enemies where dodging should be done. Dodging normal mobs is actually hard because most of their attacks are just quick normal attacks and it is really really annoying and no fun to try and time a dodge for a normal attack.

They got rid of the broken combo killer one, so that was good. But the other dailies I am fine with.

So yeah, for me so far the Dodger one is going to be the one that will prevent me from getting the daily done most of the time when it shows up.

By the way, does the daily still award a Karma jug?

eisberg.2379:

I do admit that the daily dodger one is a tough one for me. Not because I don’t know how to, but because since I play alone for the most part (dang my play times) I am not fighting tough enemies where dodging should be done. Dodging normal mobs is actually hard because most of their attacks are just quick normal attacks and it is really really annoying and no fun to try and time a dodge for a normal attack.

They got rid of the broken combo killer one, so that was good. But the other dailies I am fine with.

So yeah, for me so far the Dodger one is going to be the one that will prevent me from getting the daily done most of the time when it shows up.

By the way, does the daily still award a Karma jug?

What level are you? If you’re level 80 or close, you should just go to Southsun. The young karkas there shoot those rapid-fire bolt things. If you dodge forward, you’ll dodge a good 2-3 of them. Rinse and repeat.

eisberg.2379:

I do admit that the daily dodger one is a tough one for me. Not because I don’t know how to, but because since I play alone for the most part (dang my play times) I am not fighting tough enemies where dodging should be done. Dodging normal mobs is actually hard because most of their attacks are just quick normal attacks and it is really really annoying and no fun to try and time a dodge for a normal attack.

What bothers me about it isn’t the requirement itself, it’s the wording.

The game specifically states that “dodging” an attack is sufficient, but it’s only counting Evasions (anything that displays the text “Evaded!” when the attack would otherwise have landed) as legitimate dodges. So if your reflexes are good and you’re dodging way ahead of the attack, you’re not getting credit and are likely wondering what the heck’s going on. Once I knew what it meant, I was able to do it much more easily, but for a while I was thinking that it flat out didn’t work because the text wasn’t describing the correct action.

If the devs meant the latter, they should say as much and use the proper terminology. Call it “Daily Evader” and state that you need to “evade” attacks to get credit.

By the way, does the daily still award a Karma jug?

Yep, still does.

My opinion, which has been built on since release, is actually that NO ONE enjoys gathering

It’s so comically unprofitable.

I mean sure if you’re on your first toon, have at it, but seriously

See a harvesting node? If it’s not a rich ori node, you’d be better off killing the stuff you see on the way, it’ll be more profitable to sell n the TP than completing the approach and harvesting from it.

critickitten.1498:

The game specifically states that “dodging” an attack is sufficient,

Yeah dodging an attack, not just dodging. I don’t know… made sense to me.

Eldric.8524:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

This title makes no sense. Why would grouping in an MMO not be fun? How are you even avoiding that? Walk around and what do you see? People. Revive them from time to time. Dailies and monthlies are trying to get you to experience different parts of the game. I personally don’t like crafting, but in the end, is it really a big deal that I missed a single daily? It’s not real money you know. It’s not like your mortgage is going to fall through if you don’t get it. Breathe.

You missed the point completely!

It isn’t about crafting, and I never said grouping wasn’t enjoyable. It is about using the short time I have to play to now arrange someone to complete the tasks with.

The system was fine as it was! And I’m also happy to have dailies rotated… they should not need any reliance on other players though, in my opinion.

But that’s just it. This is an MMO and EVERYTHING should be pushing teamwork and team play. Heros were a terrible idea in GW1 because it removed any need for experienced players to need other people. I’ll admit, I enjoyed it, but if I sucked, I know it would make the game really bad. Even jumping puzzles, a solo activity, are better with other people. If you die, you can be ressed by an ally.

In fact, team play is the best part of this game. The more it is encouraged, the better the game is.

Let’s not forget to mention the total BS “7 fractals” monthly, particularly horrible for those who usually only PvP and can’t stand PvE.

Veltoss.9135:

Let’s not forget to mention the total BS “7 fractals” monthly, particularly horrible for those who usually only PvP and can’t stand PvE.

WvW needs to be removed from the Monthly and put into the PvP Monthly where it belongs. We should have PvP Monthly/Daily and PvE Monthly Daily, but instead we have PvP Monthly/Daily, PvE Daily, and Hybrid Monthly. Take out WvW in the Monthly, and put it into the PvP monthly.

critickitten.1498:

Sorry to inform you, but I don’t actually feel obligated to “prove” much of anything

In other words, you cannot provide any support to your arguments. C’mon, for someone so willing to accuse others of using assumptions, man up! Show yours and I’ll show you mine:

critickitten.1498:

“But Ascended gear is optional, too!”, I expect you’re now claiming, to which I shall place the palm of my hand onto my face

critickitten.1498:

Always find it interesting when there’s twice as many negative threads as positive ones, and easily that same ratio or more in posters, but people continue to say that it’s the “vocal minority”.

Have you ever seen a post in which I claim “Ascended gear is optional, too!”?

Have you ever actually bothered to count how many “negative” and “positive” posters there are on average in all topics in all sections of this forum?

Eridani.8317:

critickitten.1498:

The game specifically states that “dodging” an attack is sufficient,

Yeah dodging an attack, not just dodging. I don’t know… made sense to me.

So when a monster has a 2 second windup on an attack, and I immediately dodge-roll to avoid the attack that I know is coming, that’s not considered “dodging an attack”? :P

That’s what I mean when I say that the game isn’t making it clear that what they really want you to do is evade (any sort of dodge that produces “Evaded!” text). Because there’s a difference between dodging an attack (which simply means “dodge at any point in time and thus avoid taking damage”) and evading it (which only counts dodges triggered at the last second).

Erasculio.2914:

In other words, you cannot provide any support to your arguments.

So in other words, you refuse to address my perfectly valid points in the interests of fixating on something that has nothing to do with this discussion. Good to know now, so that I can focus on discussing this topic with people who actually care about the topic at hand.

critickitten.1498:

So in other words, you refuse to address my perfectly valid points in the interests of fixating on something that has nothing to do with this discussion. Good to know now, so that I can focus on discussing this topic with people who actually care about the topic at hand.

In other words, you refuse to admit being wrong even when shown factually to be so. Good to know now, so that I can focus on discussing this topic with people who are actually willing to listen to others and change their opinions based on what they learn.

eisberg.2379:

I do admit that the daily dodger one is a tough one for me. Not because I don’t know how to, but because since I play alone for the most part (dang my play times) I am not fighting tough enemies where dodging should be done. Dodging normal mobs is actually hard because most of their attacks are just quick normal attacks and it is really really annoying and no fun to try and time a dodge for a normal attack.

You can easily dodge area of effect attacks. When an enemy casts any skill with a red circle on the ground, dodging out of it counts for the achievement. If it’s some kind of damage over type effect, such as the crippling attack from common Earth Elementals, the game can register even more than one evade per dodge.

Eldric.8524:

Combo deaths and looking for dead allies to revive…

Not exactly hard to do either of these. The combo kill thing was only a bit bugged and actually wasn’t hard to complete. You merely have to shoot a projectile through another player or npc AoE effect to apply poison or fire to a target and move on, it would complete before you know it (did this myself, not hard and requires no grouping of any kind, no hand holding as you put it).

The revive allies one was still easier, just revive anything that can be classed as “ally” (Golem’s in Metrica province that are prepared dead for you to revive count) and you’re done in mere moments.

I don’t think you’re stupid at all but I do think you complained long before you really got into these dailies and how easy they are to do.

@ OP

Seriously? IT’S A KITTEN MMO!!! Player/player interaction is what makes it an MMO and bound to happen throughout. Furthermore, your suggetion implies that you do not wish to part-take in group activities, especially those at the core level, which this game is full of!

/FF

DoubleUnder.9052:

The dailies were fine….I just spent almost an hour trying to “dodge” my way to daily completion and I am only at 73% no matter how many mobs I fight and dodge. Its a pain in the kitten as of today. Dailies werent an issue so I am not sure why they made them more difficult.

How in the kitty-bloody-kitten-meow-meow does it take you an hour to dodge 15 attacks?! I got this done in a couple minutes, letting one NPC just cast at me in Orr. The only thing easier about the daily was crafting.

I don’t like the new daily set up myself. Easy or not the “dodging” thing is just plain stupid. It nets you nothing and would never be something you would normally get during PvE Gameplay outside of dungeons and fighting Champions. Why? becuase there simply isn’t the need to dodge when fighting anything outside of dungeons that aren’t Champions. The combat just isn’t that dynamic with regular enemies and only is needed for dungeons and Champs because they hit for so much damage when they attack.

The crafting one is silly and also nets you nothing unless you are currently leveling a crafting discipline.

Basically I am just not for daily items which don’t at least get you something for doing the action (outside of the completion reward). Both dodging and crafting are zero sum actions and just waste game time. (Obviously if you are leveling a craft this may not apply, but for ppl who already have each discipline maxed it’s useless)

Anyway, just my thought and I know ppl like the new system although I have yet to meet one. Haven’t heard anyone in my 100+ guild say they like it yet. We shall see how it plays out and the only thing I am sure of is that Anet should not have told us we could pick and choose and not roll that feature out at the same time as switching to the new Daily format. If it wasn’t ready to be “FULLY” implemented then the new system should have been shelved until that time.

^^^ LOL I reckon. Whats next? Run/walk 1km in game…ohhh for kitten sake, now the game is forcing me to move?

I’m enjoying the change up, and it’s something different each day.

Erasculio.2914:

Raine.1394:

I would call reward for gameplay, your gameplay, the ideal for a daily achievement. Why they would move from the ideal is beyond me.

That’s how the daily achievements still work. The difference being that people complaining right now are those whose gameplay followed the old dailies, while people who are not complaining are those who enjoy the new dailies more.

The entire flaw in the reasoning here is that a player is forced to get dailies each day. That’s the wrong point of view. People should think that they can play normally, and some days the changing dailies will reward their playstyle, despite how in other days it won’t.

So instead of complaining with something like “OMG, I have crafting, please remove crafting from the daily!”, players should think “a crafting daily… I’ll skip this one, but people who craft every day will surely like it. Maybe tomorrow I’ll get my daily”.

Players are not game designers (almost always). Players cannot think outside of what is good for each of them. Players cannot see the forest instead of looking at each individual tree. The current daily system is an improvement over the old one, and it would be foolish of ArenaNet to go back to how it was.

I agree, you are never forced you can choose to ignore the dailies.

Ideally to me, there should be 20 dailies, and of those you need to accomplish say 5 or 6 of them. So you game for an hour (or whatever) , check your list of 20 things see that 3 or 4 are completed and then look at the remaining list to see what you can do to finish off your daily. That way it happens in the background for the most part, and doesn’t pigeon hole anyone.

I like the new dailies, they are varied and easy to complete and I like the way that it focuses on core game mechanics like dodge and combo fields, underwater combat etc.

The fact that so many people find this difficult to do is kind of surprising to me and just shows me what a cool idea it actually was to include these.
Maybe we will all become better players as people become more familiar with mechanics that they really should have been using for 6 months.

@ OP none of the dailies so far have in any way required you to group, I don’t know where you get that from.
I suggest you try the new dailies out for a couple of days before you jump to conclusions.

I have very limited play time and I found the new dailies much quicker and more fun to complete than the old ones.

as an aside- I am not sure if it has anything to do with the dailies but people seem much more spread out to me.
It was really nice seeing the same people in Queensdale for the Shadow Behemoth, that I just killed a Risen King with at Arah.

Come’on, that they’ve removed the combo daily is proof that they’re on top of our concerns and they are constantly improving. I didn’t like the crafting daily, and still don’t, but it’s not that big a deal. The big deal is that they’re aiming to get more people out into open-world PvE, and that’s absolutely something they should do.

I also think it is a good thing to dodge away from enemies. I just do it long before they have a chance to attack me. Now I actually have to walk up to them, wait for them to swing, and then at the last minute dodge out of the way. All the while hoping that another player doesn’t come along and kill him for me, thinking he is helping me.

And that right there is the worst part. For the first time in Guild Wars 2, we have an achievement that ENCOURAGES us to NOT play with others, and makes us worry that some other player is going to come along and hurt our ability to finish an achievement. That’s not good…

Medron Pryde.6850:

I also think it is a good thing to dodge away from enemies. I just do it long before they have a chance to attack me. Now I actually have to walk up to them, wait for them to swing, and then at the last minute dodge out of the way. All the while hoping that another player doesn’t come along and kill him for me, thinking he is helping me.

And that right there is the worst part. For the first time in Guild Wars 2, we have an achievement that ENCOURAGES us to NOT play with others, and makes us worry that some other player is going to come along and hurt our ability to finish an achievement. That’s not good…

There is no need to walk up to an enemy and hope for the best.
Dodging AOE red circles also count and if I’m not mistaken so do dodging most range attacks.

I just charged into an occupied Harathi camp and started killing things- by the end I had the daily and I assure you I was very glad to see the other players.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

But that’s just it. This is an MMO and EVERYTHING should be pushing teamwork and team play. Heros were a terrible idea in GW1 because it removed any need for experienced players to need other people. I’ll admit, I enjoyed it, but if I sucked, I know it would make the game really bad. Even jumping puzzles, a solo activity, are better with other people. If you die, you can be ressed by an ally.

In fact, team play is the best part of this game. The more it is encouraged, the better the game is.

I beg to differ… team play is not the best part of the game for me. I have teamed on occasion where it was needed. I played 1 to 80 twice, and was happy with the story line and exploration. I was happy doing it solo, being in a guild with friends I know personally and simply chatting to them.

Team play is there, in dungeons, fractuals and champion events if you want it.

Anyway the point is rather moot, the better half now has sole use of my account to go along with her account. A shame as I have invested in buying gems, and was thinking of doing so again. Honestly it is not a biggie for me, I’ll go back to Lotro for a while and wait for another MMO.

If you want to pigeon hole my style of play, it is the extreme end of casual playing. I had something to work towards in karma pots… having 20 to 30 mins a day to play during the week and a few hours at the weekend… I’m now looking at maybe 1 or 2 pots a week. With Karma boost I’m looking at maybe at one piece of Karma armour a month I guess.

Sure I could get on with something else… but on a certain level it is the principle that directs me to jump through certain hoops and seek help on occasion to do so that irks me.

If I wanted to be some elite fractual player then I would have no argument.

If I just want to get some half decent karma armour casually then I think I have an argument.

Hey thanks critickitten and the others who also feel a bit like I do. And those too who don’t agree. The world would be boring if we all agreed.

“Hit 12 Dragons in their voonerables”

Can we have this added to daily’s PLZZZ!.

Sorry but I don’t agree with your point of view regarding playing with others, maybe some people need to Google MMO before purchasing, if you don’t play well with others buy offline games like Oblivion and such.

Not trying to be nasty but this is a multiplayer game, designed to be played with OTHERS

Dead npc’s are easy to find. And combos are removed. And the one I hate, dodging, can be done quickly if you focus on it.

I just wish they implemented the 4 out of 6 way of doing dailies that they’d referred to before.

If you don’t want to interact with others, don’t do dailies. If you want dailies, do the requirements.

There’s no option for “not doing requirements” and “expecting to finish dailies”.

I don’t understand what the QQ is all about. It’s very simple. If you don’t want to interact with others why play an Massive Multiplayer Online game?