Guild Wars 2

Alright going to actually throw my 2c in here.

On one hand you have those people that feel dailies should come ‘naturally.’ They should simply be achieved or occur as you play through the game however you like. This requires very generic dailies. Kill 10 rats, so to speak.

On the other hand, you have people that will argue that those ‘generic achievements’ are not achievements at all. Achievements require some ‘additional’ effort on the players part. These people prefer the more specific achievements. Kill ‘x’ boss for example.

Going further, there are those that feel there should a lot of effort required. Craft an ascended item for example or successfully kill ‘x’ head of the 3 headed wurm, to make it an “actual achievement.” However, this would severely limit (I think) a lot of people.

No matter how they broach it, someone if going to be unhappy. What we have currently is a fine middle ground. While the dailies do require some effort, they aren’t insanely hard to complete. Does it potentially require some people to go out of their way to complete them? Yes. However, does it limit the majority from achieving them if they choose to? No.

Olvendred.3027:

The OP, and the first explanatory post by Lishtenbird, clearly state that this thread is about the unfairness of difficult and challenging tasks being less rewarded in AP than boring, pointless dailies. Substituting a different set of even-more-generic dailies for the current ones does not go any way towards solving the stated problem.

Yeah, I get that. But I put it into yet another light: is it not even more unfair that for PvP and WvW dailies ARE exactly what you do anyways while in PvE it is something which is off the track and pointless?

That was what I wanted to add: there is an imbalance between the game modes. If you complain that in PvE the dailies are rewards for pointless things, then it is even more irritating that in PvP you get rewarded for what you do anyways.

The equivalent for “do 4 tasks in snowden drifts” in PvP would be “capture 4 orbs of ascension in Spirit Watch”. Which would lead to lots of players time vote for spirit watch at that day, since they haven’t completed their daily yet. It is obvious that this is not a good idea. Why is it in PvE?

Its funny. Before the change to the current PvE daily system, the chief complaint was that getting the dailies was too easy, didn’t feel challenging enough, and if you didn’t do them, you missed out on laurals. (which was a major reason why people did them.)
Now that they have changed to be completely optional (Laurals being granted as part of the daily log on bonus) and requiring a bit more focus, people are complaining that they are too focused, too grindy, and not fair.

Anet listened to us the first time, and changed the system to fit what we wanted. Now you get the daily rewards just for logging in. If you want a few extra AP, then make the effort, and go do them. Achievements are supposed to be for those who want a specific task, more focus, and a bit of a challenge. Something to work towards, yet at the same tme remain optional and not required. This current daily system embodies that idea of achievements perfectly. If you want them, go get them. If you don’t, than thats fine. Sure you’ll have to go out of your way, but thats the whole point.

pdavis.8031:

Its funny. Before the change to the current PvE daily system, the chief complaint was that getting the dailies was too easy, didn’t feel challenging enough, and if you didn’t do them, you missed out on laurals. (which was a major reason why people did them.)
Now that they have changed to be completely optional (Laurals being granted as part of the daily log on bonus) and requiring a bit more focus, people are complaining that they are too focused, too grindy, and not fair.

Anet listened to us the first time, and changed the system to fit what we wanted. Now you get the daily rewards just for logging in. If you want a few extra AP, then make the effort, and go do them. Achievements are supposed to be for those who want a specific task, more focus, and a bit of a challenge. Something to work towards, yet at the same tme remain optional and not required. This current daily system embodies that idea of achievements perfectly. If you want them, go get them. If you don’t, than thats fine. Sure you’ll have to go out of your way, but thats the whole point.

Some, if not most of the dailies now are pretty trivial. It’s not being difficult that is an issue for me, it’s that they are inconvenient. While i’ve been doing the dailies to some extent, tying them to a certain world boss, or double fractals is just plain silly. Typically i do Runes, Big Spender or Sentry if they happen to be in the WvW stuff. I’m still at a loss at how less choice equals a better experience.

munkiman:

It’s not that less of a choice is a better experience, its that the achievements are now more focused than they were. Sure it does “limit your options”, but having them more focused, and required to go out of your way in order to do them, essentially is what we, the players, have said we wanted, and it also fits into what Anet wants for achievements. They are optional.

Saturday
Daily worthless actions:

• Chatting with guild members
• Walking in circles in LA
• Walking in circles in DR
• Mining rich platinum nodes

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Lumberer
• Daily Activity Participation
• Daily Dredgehaunt Cliffs Event Completer
• Daily Fire Elemental

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

Not fair.

HawkMeister.4758:

I get what OP complains about.

And frankly he´s right, the PvP guys get rewards for actually gaming the way they like, while us PvE people are gated into a VERY narrow game play window.

Pockets.3201:

People didn’t need to be encouraged to hit world bosses either. I’ve never seen one of the ones in the rotations under populated and putting dailies where you may need to wait an hour or more to do them is a bad idea, especially since the only way you’ll know its time to do them is to use an external site for the timers, which the game does not tell you about.

Juxtaposition of these arguments show how some people view a number as 6 and others as 9.

First quoted argument — PvP players got it easy. Get AP for doing whatever they normally do. Correct. But, why? PvP game mode is extremely limited in the game. You have only a few objectives and only a few things to do. However, in PvE domain there are multiple options. As a PvE player you may not want to do events in Wayfair hills today because you just event trained Ulgoth and Shatterer down and got one of your daily done. Now, You could get rest of your dailies done by viewing vistas, foraging some greenies, and doing one of other alternatives. Hence, you have varied choices. Are you complaining about having varied choices? Or, are you looking at options where your PvE game options are so limited as the PvP game options that you get your dailies done just by playing it?

Next quoted argument — Do you think PvP players need the extra encouragement to cap a point or to kill a player or two in a PvP match? Probably, well definitely, not. The PvE players, likewise, do not need the encouragement to kill Teq or Wurm or any other world bosses. They will do it if they want to do so. Therefore, they are being rewarded for doing whatever they choose to do like the PvP players or our OP in this case. So, is this a problem?

So, what’d a gamemaker do? Give more choices or less choices to the community? Hence, it boils down to this.. LOGIN rewards. Will it be ok to attach AP to login rewards? I logged on and did whatever kitten I wanted to do or not wanted to do and got my daily AP. Works? Yes. Is it beneficial for the community in general? I think not.

Pockets.3201:

Event Completion Dailies overpopulate zones, causing events enemies to be wiped out as they spawn and making it very difficult to get credit as none scale to the numbers that show up and aren’t built to handle lots of exotic/ascended geared characters.

They are one of the worst dailies they added, making other people being at the events with you a negative thing.

Daily achievements last 24 hours. Are you stating a zone is so over-populated during 24 hours time that no one during their regular play time, can’t tag a mob to get the completion reward? If you are having issues w/ tagging, maybe you can move to another event instead of the one you just could not tag during your limited play time? Every zone has multiple events going on. Some events need some initiative on the player’s part to trigger. But, event completion is cool and sometimes very effective when a lowbie struggling to get an event complete gets help from multiple players.

Lishtenbird.2814:

The new dailies “benefiting the community” is both relative and far-fetched.

’nuff said.

You stated The new dailies “benefiting the community” is both relative and far-fetched. but, you did not provide a single evidence to refute my statement rather presented further evidence how guild specific or individual specific events are not helping the community as a whole. Yes they do help but, to a certain minimal extent. When a big guild wants to fill a map to spawn Teq, they do not exactly look for a pug populated map but, a map where there are minimum number of PuGs/non-guildies available. When your attire sports ascended gear while the rest of the people around you are sporting blues and greens, you seldom add a huge contribution by yourself to the event. Yes, if it were a game that should not be named here, you probably would have. But, in GW2 world, you don’t. To make your argument completely moot is that fact that entire content of GW2 can be done in blues and greens with little to no trouble. Your contribution is welcome but, is not desperately needed by the community as a whole. But, a shortage of supply in soft wood or iron will probably hurt you a lot more than you think when you won’t be able to finish an ascended weapon on a daily basis as stated in your OP.

pdavis.8031:

munkiman:

It’s not that less of a choice is a better experience, its that the achievements are now more focused than they were. Sure it does “limit your options”, but having them more focused, and required to go out of your way in order to do them, essentially is what we, the players, have said we wanted, and it also fits into what Anet wants for achievements. They are optional.

I don’t remember that being a request by the players, maybe i missed it. I do remember the original implementation being more limited and people complaining about it, so they changed it and now we have some hybrid. I’d like to earn my AP, everything to me about gaming is optional.

Who the hell complained about the old PVE dailies. I used to be able to complete those without event thinking of them. That was fine.

Now i never complete PVE dailies through natural play. I don’t pursue them because they are mind numbing and tedious. Not difficult. Nor interesting. Doing tedious tasks is not the point of playing the game.

Who on eath in the community asked AP to be rewarded for completing a bunch of seemingly pointless, out of the way, tedious monototnous tasks such as Kyrta Lumberer?

And again, why arent a rotation of dungeon paths in there. Why jump from including tedious auto attack world bosses like Fire Ele to advanced content like Fractals, while skipping normal Dungeons completely in the PVE daily system?

Halvorn.9831:

Olvendred.3027:

The OP, and the first explanatory post by Lishtenbird, clearly state that this thread is about the unfairness of difficult and challenging tasks being less rewarded in AP than boring, pointless dailies. Substituting a different set of even-more-generic dailies for the current ones does not go any way towards solving the stated problem.

Yeah, I get that. But I put it into yet another light: is it not even more unfair that for PvP and WvW dailies ARE exactly what you do anyways while in PvE it is something which is off the track and pointless?

You guys are so dead set on misreading what I wrote and understanding this in a skewed but convenient for arguing way… Okay, I’ll elaborate again.

The point of this thread is to demonstrate how utterly ridiculous it is that the stuff that most players consider “grindy”, “challenging”, “inaccessible” gets no daily reward, while the most boring and pointless tasks are being rewarded. The “grindy”, “challenging”, “inaccessible” stuff should NOT be excluded from the daily rewards currently handed out for easy tasks; instead, it should either (at least) grant the same rewards, or (preferably) grant the rewards faster/with less restrictions for harder tasks.

Was that clear enough?

pdavis.8031:

Its funny. Before the change to the current PvE daily system, the chief complaint was that getting the dailies was too easy, didn’t feel challenging enough, and if you didn’t do them, you missed out on laurals. (which was a major reason why people did them.)
Now that they have changed to be completely optional (Laurals being granted as part of the daily log on bonus) and requiring a bit more focus, people are complaining that they are too focused, too grindy, and not fair.

Anet listened to us the first time, and changed the system to fit what we wanted. Now you get the daily rewards just for logging in. If you want a few extra AP, then make the effort, and go do them. Achievements are supposed to be for those who want a specific task, more focus, and a bit of a challenge. Something to work towards, yet at the same tme remain optional and not required. This current daily system embodies that idea of achievements perfectly. If you want them, go get them. If you don’t, than thats fine. Sure you’ll have to go out of your way, but thats the whole point.

You speak of it as if “players” is a single entity which has exactly 1 subentity. As if there aren’t players who like A and dislike B, and players who like B and dislike A. Now for the perspective:

Lishtenbird.2814:

These threads from the past are worth noting:

• Only 10 Daily Achivements? – an 8-page thread from 7 months ago where players are annoyed since they’re forced to do specific PvE dailies because of lack of choices. Result: increase in choices.
• Please make dailies feel more natural – a thread about making dailies feel enjoyable instead of forced.
• Daily Orrian killer – adding a daily with unnatural requirements caused a lot of distress, and it was still only a subset from a large pool.

There’s been a bit of people who wanted B (hard specific dailies) and a whole bunch of people who bought the game with A (getting “daily” for playing in a day, “monthly” for playing in a month and so on). At some point, ANet went for a bit of B, and players raged. They stepped back and added more A – people were happy and grateful and thanked on the forums. Now someone up there said “We don’t care how much you enjoy the game, we care about METRICS!” and went full mode B. Unsurprisingly, people are still raging – in a 60 page, 3000 replies thread.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No matter how they broach it, someone if going to be unhappy. What we have currently is a fine middle ground. While the dailies do require some effort, they aren’t insanely hard to complete. Does it potentially require some people to go out of their way to complete them? Yes. However, does it limit the majority from achieving them if they choose to? No.

Sorry, but NO. The “buff” to achievement variety after the 1st daily revamp was “the middle ground” – it made a lot of people happy and generated “thank you” threads. What did the new “middle ground” generate? 60 page and 3000 posts of various raging – see above.

velmeister.4187:

You stated The new dailies “benefiting the community” is both relative and far-fetched. but, you did not provide a single evidence to refute my statement rather presented further evidence how guild specific or individual specific events are not helping the community as a whole.

Exactly as I said – it’s relative and far-fetched. Your counter-arguments sound moot and pointless to me – starting from all zones, including starting, never ever being empty after Megaservers and people actually complaining about overpopulation and zerging world bosses, and finishing with those 100+ happy pugs which our 20-30 guildies who spawn Teq taxi in once defence is set up.

Lishtenbird.2814:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No matter how they broach it, someone if going to be unhappy. What we have currently is a fine middle ground. While the dailies do require some effort, they aren’t insanely hard to complete. Does it potentially require some people to go out of their way to complete them? Yes. However, does it limit the majority from achieving them if they choose to? No.

Sorry, but NO. The “buff” to achievement variety after the 1st daily revamp was “the middle ground” – it made a lot of people happy and generated “thank you” threads. What did the new “middle ground” generate? 60 page and 3000 posts of various raging – see above.

All daily updates had people praising and unhappy with them like LanfearShadowFlame said. back then it was being forced to do dailies and yes people were complaining because of the 5 minutes now and then they had to spend to finish off the daily after their play session. Even that they felt they had to log in everyday or they’d loose their laurel permanently, which well wasnt really accurate but was how they felt none the less. The crux of the matter wasnt that they wanted to complete daily, the crux of the matter was they wanted the laurels, its always been about the laurels. Now they dont need to do anything, logging in for a split second is all it takes. You really think no one is happy about that?

Lishtenbird.2814:

Saturday

Daily worthless actions:

• Finished leveling 12th character to 80 (2nd mesmer)
• Equipped the 2nd mesmer in full Assassin’s by opening some Raider’s ascended chests and crafting the rest of armour and runes
• Crafted ascended sword for the 2nd mesmer
• Did tier 6 Dry Top and bought 2 weapon recipes
• Crafted 2 more weapons for the Ambrite weapon collection, for the total of 12/16 weapons unlocked
• Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
• Fractal 40 fast run with guildies
• Full set of Guild Missions (and an extra Bounty for those who missed the first one)
• Helped a guildie do Vexa’s Lab JP for his Mawdrey

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Lumberer
• Daily Activity Participation
• Daily Dredgehaunt Cliffs Event Completer
• Daily Fire Elemental

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

---

Sunday

Daily worthless actions:

• Crafted ascended focus for the 2nd mesmer
• Aetherpath fast run with guildies
• Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
• Organised triggered Tequatl guild spawn

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Miner
• Daily Ascalon Vista Viewer
• Daily Frostgorge Sound Event Completer
• Daily Scale 1-10 Fractal

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

---

Sounds fair, amirite?

Well compared to the previous system it is fair. With the old system you wouldn’t get laurels / mystic coins if you didn’t do the specific dailies for the day, at least now as far as rewards go you can get everything simply by logging in, leaving you all the time in the world to do what you want without worrying about the rewards.

The only thing you are missing are Achievement Points. Here is the thing about Achievement Points:

You did a level 40 Fractal run, in the time it takes to do that, no matter how fast your group is, you could do every daily on the list. In doesn’t take more than 20 minutes to do the dailies, and you can do them in like 5 minutes if you go on a farm server in PVP if all you want are the APs.

With the old system do you remember how much time you’d have to spend to get 10 APs daily? Well I remember well, and it took A LOT OF TIME with the old system to get 10 APs each day, more than 5 times of how much is needed with the new system.

So basically with the new system you get free rewards by doing nothing and you earn 10 APs in a small fraction of the time you needed with the old system.

I think that’s a huge improvement.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Saturday

Daily worthless actions:

• Finished leveling 12th character to 80 (2nd mesmer)
• Equipped the 2nd mesmer in full Assassin’s by opening some Raider’s ascended chests and crafting the rest of armour and runes
• Crafted ascended sword for the 2nd mesmer
• Did tier 6 Dry Top and bought 2 weapon recipes
• Crafted 2 more weapons for the Ambrite weapon collection, for the total of 12/16 weapons unlocked
• Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
• Fractal 40 fast run with guildies
• Full set of Guild Missions (and an extra Bounty for those who missed the first one)
• Helped a guildie do Vexa’s Lab JP for his Mawdrey

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Lumberer
• Daily Activity Participation
• Daily Dredgehaunt Cliffs Event Completer
• Daily Fire Elemental

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

---

Sunday

Daily worthless actions:

• Crafted ascended focus for the 2nd mesmer
• Aetherpath fast run with guildies
• Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
• Organised triggered Tequatl guild spawn

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Miner
• Daily Ascalon Vista Viewer
• Daily Frostgorge Sound Event Completer
• Daily Scale 1-10 Fractal

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

---

Sounds fair, amirite?

I don’t have problem with daily activities. But I am agreed with poster. There are something wrong with reward system.

I’ve hated the change to the daily system since it was patched in. It’s one of the worst changes to the game since release imo.

I could do what-ever when-ever I wanted to before. Just play in whatever format be it in PvE, WvW, PvP for a few hours and ding. Daily done. I didn’t even think about it.

There was the odd exception when I would see that I was 3-4/5 and had to shortly log out hence I had to go out of my way to do something I wasn’t really too keen on in order to get my 5/5 but that was maybe 5-10 minutes at the end of my session so no real biggy.

Overall it was a symbiotic reward for just playing regularly and was totally non-intrusive to playing the game on a “daily basis” which I really enjoyed. I loved the fact I would just be rocking around and all of a sudden “daily dodger” or some-such would be awarded to me. It worked in perfect symbiosis with player freedom and regardless of how you played or what you were doing it rewarded all players equally merely for taking part in the game and community.

Awesome.

This new system is a dictated work simulator. Period.

I finally get my RL crap out of the way and get to chill on GW2 for a few hours…log on….and find that days dailies have zero relevance in regards to where I’m at in the game or what I want to do with the short amount of time I have to play it that day.

No …instead do crap I have absolutely zero interest in…go to this zone and farm mats…go kill this boss…, etc, etc which often takes the full 1-2 hours I’m lucky enough to have in-game before I have to think about things like sleep and work.

I just ignore dailies now. Difference is in the past I usually still got them, for playing in any which way I wanted too. I don’t need a game to tell me where to go and what to do every day. My boss does that.

I’m not even mentioning how immersion breaking this is for RPing….

Why they didn’t just change up monthlies baffles me.Make that your work simulator thx Anet.

Lishtenbird.2814:

The point of this thread is to demonstrate how utterly ridiculous it is that the stuff that most players consider “grindy”, “challenging”, “inaccessible” gets no daily reward, while the most boring and pointless tasks are being rewarded. The “grindy”, “challenging”, “inaccessible” stuff should NOT be excluded from the daily rewards currently handed out for easy tasks; instead, it should either (at least) grant the same rewards, or (preferably) grant the rewards faster/with less restrictions for harder tasks.

Was that clear enough?

As I already stated, I get it. I just don’t see it the same way. I am more annoyed by the imbalance between the dailies of the different game modes that exists right now.

OK, maybe the more important question in the context of this thread is: what do you expect shall be rewarded in the form of a daily? And why should it be rewarded?

As I see it, dailies are there to have a method of constantly gaining a few AP each day, available to players of all types and capabilities. Do you want additional, on-top, dailies for harder content? Because those that are there won’t go away, as they are doable by more or less everybody and there’s only 4 of them each day for PvE. If you replace some of them with harder content you create an uproar that is faaaaaar greater than this thread.

So lets assume that the solution is to have hard-mode dailies, a second category of dailies parallel to the normal ones. How are you going to balance that between the 3 game modes?

fireflyry.7023:

I could do what-ever when-ever I wanted to before. Just play in whatever format be it in PvE, WvW, PvP for a few hours and ding. Daily done. I didn’t even think about it.

You get the daily rewards simply by logging in now. And don’t tell me you could get 10 APs daily by doing anything you wanted with the old system because that’s not true at all.
With the current system you get all the rewards of the old one, without even playing the game, AND you get 10 APs way faster than with the old system.
The only people who might see the new daily system as worse, are those who used to get 2-3 APs daily with the old system, but even those people can do the 10 AP daily every 3 days and in the end they will get the same amount of APs from dailies as with the old system.

maddoctor.2738:

You get the daily rewards simply by logging in now. And don’t tell me you could get 10 APs daily by doing anything you wanted with the old system because that’s not true at all.

No…you get a bag of random reward for logging in. That holds no relevance or merit when debating the change to the daily system. It’s a totally new mechanic.

I also never “told you” you could get 10 AP’s by doing what ever you wanted to with the old system. I merely stated it was far easier, less intrusive and a vastly more symbiotic reward which usually came as a pleasant consequence of just merely playing the game on a daily basis..

Read more.

Hm, bummer… Yeah..

fireflyry.7023:

maddoctor.2738:

You get the daily rewards simply by logging in now. And don’t tell me you could get 10 APs daily by doing anything you wanted with the old system because that’s not true at all.

No…you get a bag of random reward for logging in. That holds no relevance or merit when debating the change to the daily system. It’s a totally new mechanic.

New System (over 28 days):
20 Mystic Coin
35 Laurel (or 55 if the 20 Laurel reward is selected from the Chest of Loyalty)
2000 luck
10 Tomes of Knowledge (or 16 if the 6 Tomes of Knowledge reward is selected from the Chest of Loyalty)
4 Gem Store items
3 Transmutation charges
Several crafting materials
1 piece of account bound exotic gear
1 Celebration Booster
1 Chest of Loyalty

Old system:
5% experience toward next level
1 Mystic Coin
1 Drop of Liquid Karma
1 Essence of Luck (masterwork)
1 Laurel
5s

for a total over 28 days:
140% of next level (so 1.4 of a level)
28 Mystic Coins
28 Laurels
28 Drops of Liquid Karma – 16800 karma
28 Essence of Luck (master) -1400 luck

Aside from karma, the new system gives everything the old one did, but in higher quantities, except for mystic coins. This list doesn’t include the extra rewards you get from the individual achievements of the new system, like for example:

Mystic Forger: Mystic Coin
Fractal Runner: Fractal Relic etc

So we have a “totally new” mechanic that gives total more rewards than the old one while requiring zero (just login) work by the players.

I also never “told you” you could get 10 AP’s by doing what ever you wanted to with the old system. I merely stated it was far easier, less intrusive and a vastly more symbiotic reward which usually came as a pleasant consequence of just merely playing the game on a daily basis..
Read more.

No it wasn’t easier and it wasn’t less intrusive to get TEN APs with the old system. To get 10 APs with the old system you HAD to do PVP and/or WvW dailies which took significant more time than current PVP and WvW dailies. You also had to do 8 of the PVE dailies which took considerably more time than doing 3 PVE dailies with the new system.

Getting 10 APs daily with the old system took more time, it was more restricting, and was never EVER doable just by merely playing the game. It was significantly harder.

Dude your totally missing my point and going off on some weird AP vs AP and reward vs reward tangent while being fixated on 10 AP’s. I never mentioned AP’s or any reward given…at all.

I mentioned daily completion, not 10AP……..5/5…several times, and ease of attainment, rewards irrelevant.

Old system: Just play around having fun for a few hours, 9/10 times get the daily.

New system: Win a PvP match on a Necro.

Hang on…I don’t have a Necro….

New system: Go to a zone I have zero access or desire to go to and chop down trees.

But I’m busy having fun…do I have too?

I’m discussing the change of the mechanic in terms of ease of use and impact on the player and the requirements to attain the daily while your throwing up reward comparisons as rebuttal….

Lishtenbird.2814:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No matter how they broach it, someone if going to be unhappy. What we have currently is a fine middle ground. While the dailies do require some effort, they aren’t insanely hard to complete. Does it potentially require some people to go out of their way to complete them? Yes. However, does it limit the majority from achieving them if they choose to? No.

Sorry, but NO. The “buff” to achievement variety after the 1st daily revamp was “the middle ground” – it made a lot of people happy and generated “thank you” threads. What did the new “middle ground” generate? 60 page and 3000 posts of various raging – see above.

And I’ve also seen plenty of people that like it, and others like myself that are just sort of ‘meh’. You made my point for me. No matter what they do, someone somewhere is going to unhappy with it.

Personally, I’d be completely ok with them removing dailies completely and telling all the whiners to gfy. But, they won’t do that either, but a gal can dream.

fireflyry.7023:

I’ve hated the change to the daily system since it was patched in. It’s one of the worst changes to the game since release imo.

I could do what-ever when-ever I wanted to before. Just play in whatever format be it in PvE, WvW, PvP for a few hours and ding. Daily done. I didn’t even think about it.

There was the odd exception when I would see that I was 3-4/5 and had to shortly log out hence I had to go out of my way to do something I wasn’t really too keen on in order to get my 5/5 but that was maybe 5-10 minutes at the end of my session so no real biggy.

Overall it was a symbiotic reward for just playing regularly and was totally non-intrusive to playing the game on a “daily basis” which I really enjoyed. I loved the fact I would just be rocking around and all of a sudden “daily dodger” or some-such would be awarded to me. It worked in perfect symbiosis with player freedom and regardless of how you played or what you were doing it rewarded all players equally merely for taking part in the game and community.

Awesome.

This new system is a dictated work simulator. Period.

Exactly how I feel. “Symbiotic”, “natural” were the good words to describe the previous dailies. “Chores”, “work” are the words to describe the current system.

Halvorn.9831:

As I already stated, I get it. I just don’t see it the same way. I am more annoyed by the imbalance between the dailies of the different game modes that exists right now.

OK, maybe the more important question in the context of this thread is: what do you expect shall be rewarded in the form of a daily? And why should it be rewarded?

As I see it, dailies are there to have a method of constantly gaining a few AP each day, available to players of all types and capabilities. Do you want additional, on-top, dailies for harder content? Because those that are there won’t go away, as they are doable by more or less everybody and there’s only 4 of them each day for PvE. If you replace some of them with harder content you create an uproar that is faaaaaar greater than this thread.

So lets assume that the solution is to have hard-mode dailies, a second category of dailies parallel to the normal ones. How are you going to balance that between the 3 game modes?

• From the dailies I want the same stuff I got earlier in the game; since physical rewards have been moved to log-ins, it’s basically the AP left. That means that same as earlier, I want to steadily get AP as a result of my daily meaningful playtime – which always was the point of dailies and monthlies. You get in the game – do something meaningful – get your reward for the day for “being an active member of the game”. That’s what dailies were about for 2 years, and I liked it – just as many other people out there.
• That also means that if I do meaningful stuff but do not get rewarded, and instead have to do stuff which has a lot less meaning for me, then I am not happy as a player.
• I am okay with not getting special snowflake stuff for harder content – though I would indeed like it if there was any. Like, an extra 1 AP for daily Aetherpath, Fractals 41-50 or Arah or successful guild activity, with or without loot. That can be extra to the “Daily completionist” stuff and be entirely optional – not overly rewarding to “force” people, not stuck in their face and screen for the whole day, but nice enough to feel rewarded for.
• As for balancing “hard” daily achievements across game modes – how about just don’t? There are several reasons.
  • WvW and PvP are minor submodes, whatever their hardcore fans say. And if there’s no such thing as a group TS raid for Triple Trouble in WvW – then simply don’t invent it; still, even that infamous JP or something can still be included.
  • Setting specific goals in WvW and PvP is detrimental and bad design. If you put “kill the lord” on Legacy, people rush lord regardless of what is optimal. If you put “win as a ranger”, you get a bunch of rangers on every team and that’s a faceplalm game.

I’m more concerned about where does one find these “daily fast aether” and “daily fast frac 40” guilds? Because every guild I join, the guild chat is always full of “I’m level 35 now, does somebody want to do AC?” and I’ve been pugging dungeons and fractals ever since, avoiding any guild runs because 80% of the time those were the worst. Because there is no such thing as “meta” or even “might stacking” is unheard of, because you don’t have to, because it’s a “guild run”. And I’ve switched over a dozen guilds in the last few months, and it’s always the same.Also any decent pug players I find in pugs, they always respond that their guild is either small or limited to German/whatever language only.

I really think these daily fast aether guilds don’t exist, or at least not on the EU servers, because I don’t find any.

Lishtenbird.2814:

• Setting specific goals in WvW and PvP is detrimental and bad design. If you put “kill the lord” on Legacy, people rush lord regardless of what is optimal. If you put “win as a ranger”, you get a bunch of rangers on every team and that’s a faceplalm game.

Luckily no one at ANet would ever create a PvP-daily related to winning while playing a specific class…

I don’t know, I find this topic dificult. If e.g. it is decided that Aether Path or Frac 50 give out extra AP then everybody who doesn’t like these will come up and shout “why are they rewarded? why not me, doing 10 Vinewrath a day?”. There has to be a cut somewhere.

Maybe if you do such elevated things as Frac 50 you are already rewarded when doing them. On the other hand, who on earth would do 4 events in Snowden Drifts if they don’t have to? I mean, some of them aren’t even working after 2.5 years.

Halvorn.9831:

Lishtenbird.2814:

• Setting specific goals in WvW and PvP is detrimental and bad design. If you put “kill the lord” on Legacy, people rush lord regardless of what is optimal. If you put “win as a ranger”, you get a bunch of rangers on every team and that’s a faceplalm game.

Luckily no one at ANet would ever create a PvP-daily related to winning while playing a specific class…

That one grates me the most, especially when given the restriction of the 5 slots I have. I’m sure many vets with 30+ alts would laugh it off as a non-issue but even if I did have the luxury of having an alt of each class the fact I’m now told I have to play that class in whatever format Anet has dictated in order to attain my daily….

I really have to ignore such things, the dailies in general now, in order to retain the ideological hope that this is still a game with player choice.

I also have to ignore my last sPvP match that just happened to coincide with a daily that was to cap a point in sPvP on any class…then go afk apparently….for a whole day….gg

Lishtenbird.2814:

Unsurprisingly, people are still raging – in a 60 page, 3000 replies thread.

since this thread has turned into another arguement about the new dailies, can we get it merged with the above link, the original thread to argue about the new dailies?

Lishtenbird.2814:

Saturday

Daily worthless actions:
snip

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:
snip

Sounds fair, amirite?

Your Worthless actions contribute towards the following categories:
General: Dry Top
General: Silverwastes
General: Fractals of the Mists
General: Twilight Arbor Aetherpath
General: Tequatl
General: Explorer
General: Slayer
General: Fashion
Collections: Ambrite
Collections: Ascended Accoutrement

Each mode of play you CHOSE to pursue has its own rewards. You opted to pursue things that do not reward AP at a stellar rate, but they do reward AP. It could readily be argued that the rewards you did obtain are worth a lot more towards improving your play experience than 10 AP will do for you. If AP means that much to you, divert an hour of your ‘worthwhile’ time to get the AP you believe is worthwhile, and quit kittening.

NeoCodex.2438:

I’m more concerned about where does one find these “daily fast aether” and “daily fast frac 40” guilds? Because every guild I join, the guild chat is always full of “I’m level 35 now, does somebody want to do AC?” and I’ve been pugging dungeons and fractals ever since, avoiding any guild runs because 80% of the time those were the worst. Because there is no such thing as “meta” or even “might stacking” is unheard of, because you don’t have to, because it’s a “guild run”. And I’ve switched over a dozen guilds in the last few months, and it’s always the same.Also any decent pug players I find in pugs, they always respond that their guild is either small or limited to German/whatever language only.

I really think these daily fast aether guilds don’t exist, or at least not on the EU servers, because I don’t find any.

Getting in a good guild is kinda random. I happened to find one which was formed around getting Gold reward during Crown Pavillion, then people decided to stick around, and here we are. I sent you a PM in case you’re interested.

Sariel V.7024:

Your Worthless actions contribute towards the following categories:
General: Dry Top
General: Silverwastes
General: Fractals of the Mists
General: Twilight Arbor Aetherpath
General: Tequatl
General: Explorer
General: Slayer
General: Fashion
Collections: Ambrite
Collections: Ascended Accoutrement

Each mode of play you CHOSE to pursue has its own rewards. You opted to pursue things that do not reward AP at a stellar rate, but they do reward AP. It could readily be argued that the rewards you did obtain are worth a lot more towards improving your play experience than 10 AP will do for you. If AP means that much to you, divert an hour of your ‘worthwhile’ time to get the AP you believe is worthwhile, and quit kittening.

Jeez, that makes a whole lot of a difference, since daily fractals, daily zone events, harvesting, map completion totally doesn’t count towards general achievements! OH WAIT…

Wouldn’t mind the new daily system so much if I could still get AP for each daily I choose to complete.

fireflyry.7023:

Dude your totally missing my point and going off on some weird AP vs AP and reward vs reward tangent while being fixated on 10 AP’s. I never mentioned AP’s or any reward given…at all.

I mentioned daily completion, not 10AP……..5/5…several times, and ease of attainment, rewards irrelevant.

Old system: Just play around having fun for a few hours, 9/10 times get the daily.

New system: Win a PvP match on a Necro.

Hang on…I don’t have a Necro….

New system: Go to a zone I have zero access or desire to go to and chop down trees.

But I’m busy having fun…do I have too?

I’m discussing the change of the mechanic in terms of ease of use and impact on the player and the requirements to attain the daily while your throwing up reward comparisons as rebuttal….

If you’re talking ease of use, well, there’s nothing hard about finding a tree and pressing activate…

And, no one is forcing you to do the daily, if it doesn’t line up with your fun for the day, don’t worry about it. That is unless you’re concerned with AP, but then the rewards discussion comes into play.

I don’t usually do the dailies because I simply don’t give a kitten about AP but I do love that log in reward, no need to kitten around for 5-10 mins to get my laurels. I love the option to avoid the daily and still get the reward items that I kinda need.

GW2’s daily log-in rewards do seem to be superior overall to those of other games, such as LOTRO and Rift. I’ll actually log in to this game for those rewards, but the other 2? Their daily rewards are so pointless, I never log in for that reason.

I agree with Celtic Lady, the rewards you get for just showing up are awesome. (Even if you don’t use the tomes, the luck, or the BL goods)

I will also point out that your actions are deemed “worthless” by you, based on the absence of a number that has no value. No one who plays this game on a regular basis with other ‘skilled’ players can really make the assumption that the more dailies you’ve done the better you are as a player.

People who do dailies (including myself) do them either for the real rewards (tomes, xp scrolls, wvw xp, etc… ) or for “imaginary” rewards because they think one of these days AP will matter. (Including leaderboard people)… Otherwise what you are deeming “worthless” are worth more to the average player than 10AP

Dasenthal.6520:

I agree with Celtic Lady, the rewards you get for just showing up are awesome. (Even if you don’t use the tomes, the luck, or the BL goods)

I will also point out that your actions are deemed “worthless” by you, based on the absence of a number that has no value. No one who plays this game on a regular basis with other ‘skilled’ players can really make the assumption that the more dailies you’ve done the better you are as a player.

People who do dailies (including myself) do them either for the real rewards (tomes, xp scrolls, wvw xp, etc… ) or for “imaginary” rewards because they think one of these days AP will matter. (Including leaderboard people)… Otherwise what you are deeming “worthless” are worth more to the average player than 10AP

I personally do not really care about how other people relate me to my AP, all I want from those APs is primarily the unique skins (the Pinnacle ones for my mesmer – a veeery far goal – and some Hellfire for ele), secondary the milestone chest stuff which I find quite pleasing, and lastly for the feeling of completionism. If those APs were not tied to any rewards and were used for a leaderboard pixel measuring only, I wouldn’t have actually bothered.

Daily forum achievements:

-Daily You don’t speak for everyone
-Daily I want you to play the way I want
-Daily Forum is just full of negative
-Daily Nerf warrior

Forum Achievement Rewards:
500 AP – 1 day ban
1000 AP – 2 day ban
1500 AP – 1 day ban
2000 AP – 2 day ban
2500 AP – 1 week ban
.
.
.

You forgot daily anti thief stealth OP posting

I just want to push a button and get a reward, and do that repeatedly until it becomes the essence of who I am.

Operant conditioning has never been so exciting!

Majic.4801:

I just want to push a button and get a reward, and do that repeatedly until it becomes the essence of who I am.

MANUGO!!!!

Oh, wait. Wrong game.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Saturday

Daily worthless actions:

• Finished leveling 12th character to 80 (2nd mesmer)
• Equipped the 2nd mesmer in full Assassin’s by opening some Raider’s ascended chests and crafting the rest of armour and runes
• Crafted ascended sword for the 2nd mesmer
• Did tier 6 Dry Top and bought 2 weapon recipes
• Crafted 2 more weapons for the Ambrite weapon collection, for the total of 12/16 weapons unlocked
• Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
• Fractal 40 fast run with guildies
• Full set of Guild Missions (and an extra Bounty for those who missed the first one)
• Helped a guildie do Vexa’s Lab JP for his Mawdrey

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Lumberer
• Daily Activity Participation
• Daily Dredgehaunt Cliffs Event Completer
• Daily Fire Elemental

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

---

Sunday

Daily worthless actions:

• Crafted ascended focus for the 2nd mesmer
• Aetherpath fast run with guildies
• Fractal 50 fast run with guildies
• Organised triggered Tequatl guild spawn

Daily ACHIEVEMENTS:

• Daily Kryta Miner
• Daily Ascalon Vista Viewer
• Daily Frostgorge Sound Event Completer
• Daily Scale 1-10 Fractal

Daily completionist: 0/3. AP earned: 0.

---

Sounds fair, amirite?

I don’t think that it is a bad thing that different activities provide different rewards. Pretty much everything in the “worthless” section provides rewards. For the most part those rewards are superior to the rewards for daily completion.

Lishtenbird.2814:

The point of this thread is to demonstrate how utterly ridiculous it is that the stuff that most players consider “grindy”, “challenging”, “unaccessible” gets no reward, while the most boring and pointless tasks are being rewarded.

No reward ? Pretty sure that just about everything in the game provides rewards of various sorts.

It might also be worth pointing out that it would be better to speak for yourself rather than try to present yourself as some form of expert on what, “most players,” think.

Also, for the record, the most challenging content in the game, PvP, does provide AP on top of its other rewards.

It’s interesting that you guys claim you don’t care about APs, just the “daily completion”… but daily completion is not needed for anything unless you want the APs. You get the rewards for just logging in. Takes a total of 2 minutes maybe (start game, log in, click chest, log out).

Why on Earth would you want to do the daily completion if not for the APs? And in that case it’s far easier and faster to get the 10 points now than it used to be.

serenke.4806:

Why on Earth would you want to do the daily completion if not for the APs? And in that case it’s far easier and faster to get the 10 points now than it used to be.

Considerably easier.

Players that play PvP can get 10 APs each day only by doing PvP (and most PvP dailies are even easier than the old PvP dailies). With the old system you got only 2 APs in PvP, AND you had to leave PvP in order to get the actual (non AP) rewards.

Players that play WvW can get 10 APs each day only by doing WvW (and most WvW dailies are easier than the old WvW dailies). With the old system you got only 2 APs in WvW, AND you had to leave WvW in order to get the actual (non AP) rewards. Sure some PVE dailies were doable in WvW, but not always.

Players that just want the rewards, log-in for 1 minute and get them. The rewards of the new system are MORE than the old one. So if you don’t have time one day, you log-in for 1 minute, get the reward and then you can logout. That was impossible with the old system.

Achievement hunters, those that tried to get 10 (or 12) APs with the old system, can now do it in a very very very very small fraction of the time. With the old system you had to play for hours to get 10 APs, now you play 5-10 minutes to get them.

The new system is giving some unique extra rewards, that’s why it’s more specific, like the Fractals daily gives an extra fractal relic, the mystic forge daily gives an extra mystic coin etc

So overall, the only people who might “lose” with the new system are those who used to get very few APs everyday (less than 10). But if you think about it, even those can get more APs as a net reward each month, depending on what they do. Let’s say you were getting 5 APs with the old system (enough for the material rewards), now every 2 days you can get 10 APs and reach the same result.

An extra category for Fractals and Dungeons is needed, it’s silly that there are no dungeon dailies. Then they can remove the Fractal dailies from the PvE dailies and add some extra PvE dailies in their place. Then they can have dailies for all types of players (double fractal daily days are the worse)