Dangerous precedent: Watchwork Pick
If the watchwork pick bonus replace the bonus of getting another gem. say 0 chance of getting bonus gem.
Does that mean watchwork pick actually sucks(makes you less money)? if sprocket price stay at what it is now.
Just saying it.
It does not stop gemstones. It does however appear to stop the chance to get the extra ore piece that guild bonuses and boosters increase. All nodes I have mined with the new pick (with the exception of iron, which was always weird) have only given me 3 ore of that type. Nodes I mine with my molten or bone pick still give me that extra piece without issue.
Qwerkk – Asuran Engineer
Still not seeing you getting screwed over here. You chose to buy the molten pick and used it for how many months now?
Not long enough for it to pay back for itself, not in gold and not in convenience.
Well here’s the question, before the watchwork pick, did you have any plans or intentions at all of buying another pick?
No. NEVER EVER EVER. 12 euros was already on the expensive side and close to rip-off territory.
If no, then ANet did a good job of getting you to change your mind and go for the newer model.
They made the first item, which I paid A LOT of real money for worthless. So I demand a compensation for that.
Tools are account bound, so can already use them on an alt. I NEVER want to use the molten pickaxe on an alt anymore, as using that makes me miss out on sprockets!
USELESS MOLTEN PICKAXE.
You kidding me? When I get around to buying a watchwork one (I intend to do so) I’ll be happy to put my current one on an alt, it saves the bother of having to switch it around (which I don’t bother with now to be honest).
Buy the way, you’re really not intended to any time soon make up the cost in gathered materials or coins saved buying disposable tools. You’re paying for the convenience first and foremost of never having to hit a vendor when you run out of the tools. In the convenience regards alone anyone that mines a lot is getting their value for the cash investment. So go ahead and use the molten on your most commonly played alt (if that’s not your primary “mining” character). You won’t have to swap around the new pick if you don’t want to bother and you’ll never have to hit a vendor for that character for mining picks. If most of your mining is done on your main anyhow the handful of coppers you may or may not miss out on on the alt really aren’t worth the bother or the waste of emotions.
#TeamJadeQuarry
You kidding me? When I get around to buying a watchwork one (I intend to do so) I’ll be happy to put my current one on an alt, it saves the bother of having to switch it around (which I don’t bother with now to be honest).
Buy the way, you’re really not intended to any time soon make up the cost in gathered materials or coins saved buying disposable tools. You’re paying for the convenience first and foremost of never having to hit a vendor when you run out of the tools. In the convenience regards alone anyone that mines a lot is getting their value for the cash investment. So go ahead and use the molten on your most commonly played alt (if that’s not your primary “mining” character). You won’t have to swap around the new pick if you don’t want to bother and you’ll never have to hit a vendor for that character for mining picks. If most of your mining is done on your main anyhow the handful of coppers you may or may not miss out on on the alt really aren’t worth the bother or the waste of emotions.
Are you getting paid by Anet to spew these dumb apologist messages or what? You really make no sense whatsoever.
Still not seeing you getting screwed over here. You chose to buy the molten pick and used it for how many months now?
Not long enough for it to pay back for itself, not in gold and not in convenience.
You paid for the convenience of having a pick that doesn’t ever run out. And will continue to never run out. It will continue to work just fine.
Well here’s the question, before the watchwork pick, did you have any plans or intentions at all of buying another pick?
No. NEVER EVER EVER. 12 euros was already on the expensive side and close to rip-off territory.
Hmm… If you never planned on getting a new pick anyway, regardless of what it did, then why are you up in arms about this?
If no, then ANet did a good job of getting you to change your mind and go for the newer model.
They made the first item, which I paid A LOT of real money for worthless. So I demand a compensation for that.
Tools are account bound, so can already use them on an alt. I NEVER want to use the molten pickaxe on an alt anymore, as using that makes me miss out on sprockets!
USELESS MOLTEN PICKAXE.
Oh, so the Molten Pick no longer works at all? They came out with the new pick and deleted or otherwise broke your Molten Pick, /forcing/ you to buy the new one…
“If half as many people were half as brave in real life as they were online…
… The human race would never have to worry about be oppressed again.”
I think trolls should have their computers smashed. ’Its all part of the game. U mad bro?’
… The human race would never have to worry about be oppressed again.”
I think trolls should have their computers smashed. ’Its all part of the game. U mad bro?’
(edited by Moderator)
Are you getting paid by Anet to spew these dumb apologist messages or what? You really make no sense whatsoever.
Are you paid by Blizzard to spew these dumb negative messages or what? You really make no sense whatsoever.
See what I did there?
Forum Warrior/Mesmer according to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Forum-Classes/first#post3577563
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Forum-Classes/first#post3577563
Still not seeing you getting screwed over here. You chose to buy the molten pick and used it for how many months now?
Not long enough for it to pay back for itself, not in gold and not in convenience.
You paid for the convenience of having a pick that doesn’t ever run out. And will continue to never run out. It will continue to work just fine.
Not really, as I can no longer equip it as there is a new pick occupying the same slot. So a good I paid real money for no longer does anything.
Hmm… If you never planned on getting a new pick anyway, regardless of what it did, then why are you up in arms about this?
Err what? I was just FORCED by anet to purchase a new pick to replace my now-worthless one, cause they added a bonus to it that the previous one does not have.
Oh, so the Molten Pick no longer works at all?
100% Correct. I can no longer equip and use it at all, as the slot is taken by a better version.
They came out with the new pick and deleted or otherwise broke your Molten Pick, /forcing/ you to buy the new one…
Exactly!!!
Been testing the new pick for awhile and tested 50 strikes and got around 4 gems. On a normal pick, I receive roughly 5 on 50 strikes. Probably this is due to variance.
The pick also has a critical chance (receiving extra strikes on a node). Doubt it has a greater/lesser chance than any other pick out there.
Quite frankly i don’t have a problem with the pick, gem stores are designed to make money and the new pick will do just that, i guess peeps who bought other picks feel like their picks are not as good, but you choose to buy it knowing full well what it was and it’s use, so a-net make a better one, aww poor you, you had an advantage re the rest of the gamers in that you no longer had to purchase these items from the vendors, now there is a better item you want to complain your at a disadvantage? seriously grow up peeps, its a online store its design is to offer items peeps will pay for.
I really am going to giggle at the whole “Sprokets are everywhere” crowd when the Berserker crit bonus -> Ferocity nerf hits and people notice how incredibly powerful the Zealot’s/Keeper’s gear actually is.
3,000 for your armor and another 1,000-2,000 for your weapons. They’re going to evaporate like water ice on Mercury.
Healing power? Really? Those sets are no different than clerics in terms of usefulness except for like two classes with very specific builds. Berserker will still be the best DPS stat combo.
Anet is putting themselves in danger here because if they accidentally (or otherwise) cause the value of sprockets to go up there will be even bigger outrage than we’re seeing now.
Or: Imagine one of the enormously rich TP players (or group of such players) manipulating the value of sprockets just for the lulz of causing this outrage.
I’m not using a slippery slope argument.
To quote your earlier statement…
Yes, the sprockets are a small thing. So let’s just move the goal post a little further…then a little further…then a little more.
A game becomes pay to win as soon as you can buy things with money that are not available to everyone else in game through normal game play. It’s that simple. The game has always been pay to win to some extent, it just wasn’t very blunt about it.
Can I also get a pick in game through normal game play that has a bonus chance of spitting out sprockets? No? p2w.Actually yes. Buy a regular pick, go to a Sprocket Node in a Home Instance.
Again, you can get them through normal game play… via said Sprocket Node. Or buying them off the TP if you really want them. All without having to pay a single Gem. Not P2W.What the people who are arguing for keeping this and things like this in game are using is a shifting sands logical fallacy. You said it yourself, if it gave out gold coins…then it would be pay to win. Why? It spits out sprockets worth…you guessed it…money. It’s just not that much. But it’s the same exact thing as a pick that would spit out gold coins at your feet. The only thing that is different is a persons perception of what is worthwhile.
Which is a logical fallacy. This is not subjective.I was using the absurdity of your Hyperbole to show sarcasm (which at 4AM in the morning, seemed a lot funnier to me. :P) Truth of the matter is, just about all ore nodes gives you gold. Just take whatever you mine and go sell it. Look! Gold!
Joking and sarcasm aside, you continue to ignore the fact that the materials gained by this can be, and will continue to be obtainable for those that have the time and put the effort in.
With this in mind, lets look over this, shall we?Assuming a worst case scenario, the material in question, Sprockets, will no longer drop in the game from enemies (this is an unfounded assumption at the moment, but lets just roll with that for now…)
That means there will be three ways to obtain them…
- A Pick you can buy from the Gem store that gives a chance of you getting some…
- A node specifically devoted to them in your Home Instance…
- Buying them from other players via the Trading Post…Two out of three methods by which to gain these materials does not require you spending any real money at all.
If P2W means that you can only get something in a game via spending real money (as it has been stated) then your argument falls short. Because…
SPROCKETS CAN STILL BE OBTAINED IN GAME
Not P2W.
You are using sprockets in your argument. The example is a pickaxe that creates sprockets.
As stated earlier you are using the shifting sands logical fallacy. If the pick created gold coins instead of sprockets is that ok? Legendaries? Precursors? All these things are obtainable in game. The only difference is perception of what is worthwhile.
Your perception of worth is the logical fallacy. It is p2w. I’m not sure how I can make it any clearer.
As the wise old Asura Spokk once said… “The needs of the many out-weigh the tears of the few.”
#TeamJadeQuarry
Anet is putting themselves in danger here because if they accidentally (or otherwise) cause the value of sprockets to go up there will be even bigger outrage than we’re seeing now.
Or: Imagine one of the enormously rich TP players (or group of such players) manipulating the value of sprockets just for the lulz of causing this outrage.
Only if they add a new item that is desirable an increases demand. Right now supply will easily be greater than demand as they’re worthless to a large percentage of the playerbase.
You are using sprockets in your argument. The example is a pickaxe that creates sprockets.
As stated earlier you are using the shifting sands logical fallacy. If the pick created gold coins instead of sprockets is that ok? Legendaries? Precursors? All these things are obtainable in game. The only difference is perception of what is worthwhile.
Your perception of worth is the logical fallacy. It is p2w. I’m not sure how I can make it any clearer.
I agree. While the current pick doesn’t YET have a signficant impact, it is a slippery slope. They also added mining nodes recently, and these things can get out of hand fast.
But what if we can pay for a bolt of damask farm in our home instance, and new mining picks that quadruple all the resources?
You’d expect stuff like that in P2W farmville games, but Anet seems to be heading that way too.
Still not seeing you getting screwed over here. You chose to buy the molten pick and used it for how many months now?
Not long enough for it to pay back for itself, not in gold and not in convenience.
You paid for the convenience of having a pick that doesn’t ever run out. And will continue to never run out. It will continue to work just fine.
Not really, as I can no longer equip it as there is a new pick occupying the same slot. So a good I paid real money for no longer does anything.
Hmm… If you never planned on getting a new pick anyway, regardless of what it did, then why are you up in arms about this?
Err what? I was just FORCED by anet to purchase a new pick to replace my now-worthless one, cause they added a bonus to it that the previous one does not have.
Oh, so the Molten Pick no longer works at all?
100% Correct. I can no longer equip and use it at all, as the slot is taken by a better version.
They came out with the new pick and deleted or otherwise broke your Molten Pick, /forcing/ you to buy the new one…
Exactly!!!
Twisting and cherry picking words and taking things completely out of context to try and justify your extreme hyperbole…
And… done with you.
I can no longer equip it.
Yes you can. The new pick doesn’t prevent you from equipping it. This is a choice. Just like you chose to buy it. You got exactly what you paid for.
I was forced by ANET to buy the new pick.
Again you made the choice to buy it.
You think you made a bad choice in buying the old pick but that is nobody’s choice but your own. No one forced you to think what you think or have the attitudes that you have. Live with it.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
I haven’t seen this clarified but might have missed it. Does the chance for sprockets replace the chance for bonus jewel stones that exists with the molten pick or is it in addition to it?
It has been tested and speculated (though not confirmed) that the sprocket takes the place of the chance of getting a second ore deposit, so there is now no chance of getting two pieces of ore from one strike.
This was copied and pasted from another post in the Black Lion Trading Forum:
Now that the pick has been out a little while more data is out on the mining pick. What the pick does is replace the extra ore you may have received from a swing with a sprocket.
So you may get:
-1x ore
-1x ore + 1x crafting material (gemstone)
-1x ore + 1x Sprocket
You can no longer get the 2x ore.
*mind you this is a small sample size
Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it. More ore vs. sprockets, that is the question.
Alts-R-Us ~ All professions at 80 ~ Still leveling characters.
Main? What “main”? I play all of them sooner or later.
Main? What “main”? I play all of them sooner or later.
You are using sprockets in your argument. The example is a pickaxe that creates sprockets.
As stated earlier you are using the shifting sands logical fallacy. If the pick created gold coins instead of sprockets is that ok? Legendaries? Precursors? All these things are obtainable in game. The only difference is perception of what is worthwhile.
Your perception of worth is the logical fallacy. It is p2w. I’m not sure how I can make it any clearer.
I agree. While the current pick doesn’t YET have a signficant impact, it is a slippery slope. They also added mining nodes recently, and these things can get out of hand fast.
But what if we can pay for a bolt of damask farm in our home instance, and new mining picks that quadruple all the resources?
You’d expect stuff like that in P2W farmville games, but Anet seems to be heading that way too.
The impact doesn’t matter. It’s a binary system.
I am not arguing impact. In truth, adding the sprockets to the game in this manner won’t really affect anything except to make sprocket prices drop and be more available to everyone. Probably a good thing unless you were a sprocket hoarder or something.
I am arguing why perception of worth has no impact on if something is p2w or not.
Healing power? Really?
Yes. really. If you’ve any sort of Support-minded outlook in character-building, its the first time we’ve had Power-based DPS and Support without points being piddled away on Toughness in a single combination outside of Celestial.
I realize Support is still dead in high-skill Dungeon running, but its solid for bringing stability and success to weaker PUGs (like say, the marionette…) and it can make a huge difference in WvW clashes.
Those sets are no different than clerics in terms of usefulness except for like two classes with very specific builds.
Sometimes the tools have to be there before anyone employs a little imagination in using them. If ALL you do is DPS, then sure, its unexciting. But I think there are more than just two builds that can leverage Healing power over the reduced impact of Ferocity…
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
Actually, I’m fairly certain that you can get sprockets withe the gift from the meta achievement, similar to the candy corn and crystals, so not as p2w as you would think…
Actually, I’m fairly certain that you can get sprockets withe the gift from the meta achievement, similar to the candy corn and crystals, so not as p2w as you would think…
Again, the argument is not the sprockets, but the pick. You can get most anything in game. Does it make it ok to then sell an item in the gem store that gives you a better chance at gems from ore nodes? Gold coins? ascended materials? precursor drops?
The value of whatever drops does not matter. Just that something extra drops. It creates a tier of players that can only be obtained through the gem store.
And this is in addition to creating tiers of gem store items in the exact same category.
So in two months we get a 1200 gem pick with % chance of quartz crystal and sprockets? I am not an idiot, I can tell when I am getting ripped off. Either give all store harvesting tools a bonus (plus durability tools obtainable through gameplay) or remove the item entirely.
I will make you a deal Arena Net, lower the price to 800, remove the bonus while promising to never do this again and will buy one for an alt of mine.
“I am Evon Gnashblade and this message is acceptable to me.”
Company replies: 0
Company replies: 0
If they say nothing, eventually the thread dies and everyone just accepts it and moves on. That’s happened many times since the game released.
It really is a situation of “ignore it and it’ll go away”. And guess what? It does lol
Ignore players and they’ll go away? True dat.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
Company replies: 0
If they say nothing, eventually the thread dies and everyone just accepts it and moves on. That’s happened many times since the game released.
It really is a situation of “ignore it and it’ll go away”. And guess what? It does lol
Yes, the angry players go away, never to return or buy another item.
Ignore players and they’ll go away? True dat.
Oh I’m sure ZeniMax will send ANet a thank you card for all the business.
This has to go right up there with the flaming human cultural armor for “Biggest Bone-head Decision Involving the Gem Store” trophy.
Oh I’m sure ZeniMax will send ANet a thank you card for all the business.
Oh, haven’t you heard the latest screw-up?
Making a race (that they were very adamant against putting in the game) available only to people who buy the CE of the game.
I don’t think said game will be seen as much of a threat anymore.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Company replies: 0
If they say nothing, eventually the thread dies and everyone just accepts it and moves on.
Ignoring it is no solution. Ultimately, only Anet controls what happens in their game, and in that sense they can force the players to “accept” it. On the other hand, players control public perception of the game, and by extension its financial success. Is it worth it for the company to ignore the problem if the result is that they anger customers who then badmouth the game to their friends (aka potential future customers)? Customer allegiance is a powerful thing – happy customers are your best salespeople. Customer dissatisfaction is equally powerful – customers who feel they’ve been wronged are your worst enemy.
Due to the inflammatory tone of this thread, it will be closed. Please keep in mind that if you want to discuss issues on our forums, you have to do it in a constructive way.