Guild Wars 2

Keep the picks, keep the animations, remove the sprockets.

People who don’t think it’s P2W don’t seem to care about sprockets, and the people who do care about sprockets object to the pick. So just remove that effect and let’s go about our business as usual.

Unless sprockets are going to stop dropping in the game altogether, in which case, add other ways to get them into the game.

Buttercup.5871:

Berelious.3290:

And so the poor dead horse continues to be beaten with the big ugly P2W stick. Seriously guys, I’m surprised there’s anything left there to beat. Let the poor thing decompose and get back to gaming like the good little gamer geeks we are.

What if in 3 months time precursor crafting requires 10.000 sprockets? Or 10.000 pristine snowflakes from an “unlimited ice pick”? Should we “revive” the “dead horse” then?

This discussion is valid, and I can assure you not all angles have yet been touched upon. If you have nothing to contribute, please don’t discourage others from doing so.

The discussion is valid from a certain point of view. So would a discussion about a hypothetical crossover between WoW and GW2, or ESO and GW2. I mean, since we don’t know what could happen in the future. Heck, we could also talk about in three months’ time a Precursor could only be earned through landing the final blow on Scarlet Briar and doing the /dance emote.

(Seriously, I hope that one makes it in.)

We can suggest any future we want because it hasn’t been done yet. All we do have is the Sprocket Generator is dead simple to get even starting today, and provides a similar service – accessibility for sprockets after the watchworks go away.

IF they go away.

Ah gosh. I just noticed the thread, just noticed the fact that it gives extra materials… woh P2W! Delete the sprockets ///

Hypothetical? Tell that to the people trying to craft the juggernaut now. Those silver doubloons don’t cost 2 silver each anymore. Doubloons were bought up by people who figured out this item was really difficult to obtain.

Sure you can use your gift of sprockets, but if you need 10k sprockets, it will take a while to get there don’t you think? In fact, the new gear already requires 500 sprockets each, per insignia/inscription. Try and get yourself a full set with just a sprocket node, see how long that will take you.

Buttercup.5871:

Hypothetical? Tell that to the people trying to craft the juggernaut now. Those silver doubloons don’t cost 2 silver each anymore. Doubloons were bought up by people who figured out this item was really difficult to obtain.

Sure you can use your gift of sprockets, but if you need 10k sprockets, it will take a while to get there don’t you think? In fact, the new gear already requires 500 sprockets each, per insignia/inscription. Try and get yourself a full set with just a sprocket node, see how long that will take you.

Luckily those new Insignia/Inscriptions aren’t Berserker so nobody cares

Everyone can trade in-game earned gold for gems and buy the new pick…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Buttercup.5871:

Hypothetical? Tell that to the people trying to craft the juggernaut now. Those silver doubloons don’t cost 2 silver each anymore. Doubloons were bought up by people who figured out this item was really difficult to obtain.

Sure you can use your gift of sprockets, but if you need 10k sprockets, it will take a while to get there don’t you think? In fact, the new gear already requires 500 sprockets each, per insignia/inscription. Try and get yourself a full set with just a sprocket node, see how long that will take you.

Luckily those new Insignia/Inscriptions aren’t Berserker so nobody cares

Stat distribution and optimal builds are changing in a few months so they might care

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Buttercup.5871:

Hypothetical? Tell that to the people trying to craft the juggernaut now. Those silver doubloons don’t cost 2 silver each anymore. Doubloons were bought up by people who figured out this item was really difficult to obtain.

Sure you can use your gift of sprockets, but if you need 10k sprockets, it will take a while to get there don’t you think? In fact, the new gear already requires 500 sprockets each, per insignia/inscription. Try and get yourself a full set with just a sprocket node, see how long that will take you.

Luckily those new Insignia/Inscriptions aren’t Berserker so nobody cares

Yet.

The only difference between the new insignia and the new berserker sets will be ferocity (new zerker insignia) versus healing (new zealot insignia). If ferocity turns out to be a let-down – amd we know the damage wil be less – healing might actually be a really good alternative. Especially in WvW, and/or in countering improved difficulty levels of world bosses.

Buttercup.5871:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Buttercup.5871:

Hypothetical? Tell that to the people trying to craft the juggernaut now. Those silver doubloons don’t cost 2 silver each anymore. Doubloons were bought up by people who figured out this item was really difficult to obtain.

Sure you can use your gift of sprockets, but if you need 10k sprockets, it will take a while to get there don’t you think? In fact, the new gear already requires 500 sprockets each, per insignia/inscription. Try and get yourself a full set with just a sprocket node, see how long that will take you.

Luckily those new Insignia/Inscriptions aren’t Berserker so nobody cares

Yet.

The only difference between the new insignia and the new berserker sets will be ferocity (new zerker insignia) versus healing (new zealot insignia). If ferocity turns out to be a let-down – amd we know the damage wil be less – healing might actually be a really good alternative. Especially in WvW, and/or in countering improved difficulty levels of world bosses.

That was sarcasm.

And if Berserker winds up not being as useful, we’ll see builds going probably to find the next best thing. Though I suspect, strongly, unless the entire system is completely overhauled? Berserker is still going to remain “king of the stats” for more people than you’d expect.

Also, Celestial stats already require Quartz which people can only get through either mining their own Home Instance node (and then Fusing one per day) or through Trading Post purchases.

Strangely, I haven’t seen as huge an uproar over that.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Also, Celestial stats already require Quartz which people can only get through either mining their own Home Instance node (and then Fusing one per day) or through Trading Post purchases.

Strangely, I haven’t seen as huge an uproar over that.

That’s because you don’t need a gemstore item to get the quartz. The home instance wasn’t bought in the gemstore, it was a meta reward. Moreover, quartz was obtained in large quantities from wintersday gifts. Any and all means to obtain quartz were kept completely separate from the gemstore. Up until yesterday, this has been the policy on any (time-limited or other) crafting material. That is, in large part, what this uproar is about.

Buttercup.5871:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Also, Celestial stats already require Quartz which people can only get through either mining their own Home Instance node (and then Fusing one per day) or through Trading Post purchases.

Strangely, I haven’t seen as huge an uproar over that.

That’s because you don’t need a gemstore item to get the quartz. The home instance wasn’t bought in the gemstore, it was a meta reward. Moreover, quartz was obtained in large quantities from wintersday gifts. Any and all means to obtain quartz were kept completely separate from the gemstore. Up until yesterday, this has been the policy on any (time-limited or other) crafting material. That is, in large part, what this uproar is about.

. . . Sprockets are available from the home instance also. From a meta reward. They were also earned in the Queen’s Pavilion, which is supposedly opening again sometime in the future to allow access to the Gauntlet.

They also have been dropping from Watchworks from the invasion events, thus have been available in relatively massive quantities since “The Queen’s Jubilee”. As opposed to quartz.

After seeing so many posts from people that have no idea what pay to win actually means and/or have no idea what good business sense is (many people that will spend gems have bought infinite mining picks already, how can we tempt them to buy more?) have helped me realize there’s only one possible solution to this faux dilemma.

I need to buy two of these picks and dual wield them.

Oh… and sprockets should be added to WvW loot bags as a possible drop item.

VOLKON.1290:

After seeing so many posts from people that have no idea what pay to win actually means and/or have no idea what good business sense is (many people that will spend gems have bought infinite mining picks already, how can we tempt them to buy more?) have helped me realize there’s only one possible solution to this faux dilemma.

I need to buy two of these picks and dual wield them.

Oh… and sprockets should be added to WvW loot bags as a possible drop item.

Seriously predicting the Queen’s Pavilion opens again and sprockets become common as dirt all over again

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VOLKON.1290:

After seeing so many posts from people that have no idea what pay to win actually means and/or have no idea what good business sense is (many people that will spend gems have bought infinite mining picks already, how can we tempt them to buy more?) have helped me realize there’s only one possible solution to this faux dilemma.

I need to buy two of these picks and dual wield them.

Oh… and sprockets should be added to WvW loot bags as a possible drop item.

Seriously predicting the Queen’s Pavilion opens again and sprockets become common as dirt all over again

What do you think about the dual wielding idea? You could even (potentially) mine at double the rate and have a new animation to go with it. Imagine if there was a new future pick with a percent chance to mine, say, a quartz chunk and you dual wielded that with this new pick… could be interesting for the hard core farming types.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Buttercup.5871:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Also, Celestial stats already require Quartz which people can only get through either mining their own Home Instance node (and then Fusing one per day) or through Trading Post purchases.

Strangely, I haven’t seen as huge an uproar over that.

That’s because you don’t need a gemstore item to get the quartz. The home instance wasn’t bought in the gemstore, it was a meta reward. Moreover, quartz was obtained in large quantities from wintersday gifts. Any and all means to obtain quartz were kept completely separate from the gemstore. Up until yesterday, this has been the policy on any (time-limited or other) crafting material. That is, in large part, what this uproar is about.

. . . Sprockets are available from the home instance also. From a meta reward. They were also earned in the Queen’s Pavilion, which is supposedly opening again sometime in the future to allow access to the Gauntlet.

They also have been dropping from Watchworks from the invasion events, thus have been available in relatively massive quantities since “The Queen’s Jubilee”. As opposed to quartz.

Wait, wintersday gifts didn’t drop “in massive quantities”? And quartz couldn’t be mined massively during the event through which they were introduced?

Quartz and Sprockets followed the exact same pattern, dropwise. The only difference between them is that one can now be mined consistently (provided you spend 1k gems in the gemstore), and the other cannot. Oh, and there’s of course that tiny difference that you need 125 quartz crystals versus 500 sprockets per insignia. And that sprockets are also required in large quantities for crafting popular sigils. And runes. And portals.

Buttercup.5871:

Wait, wintersday gifts didn’t drop “in massive quantities”? And quartz couldn’t be mined massively during the event through which they were introduced?

Yes, and sprockets are the same. Because of the Pavilion and the really aggressive farms for the Champions there.

Quartz and Sprockets followed the exact same pattern, dropwise. The only difference between them is that one can now be mined consistently (provided you spend 1k gems in the gemstore), and the other cannot.

Crystals. At least three per day provided you got the node from the meta event. Sprockets, at least three per day provided you finish the meta till in progress.

Oh, and there’s of course that tiny difference that you need 125 quartz crystals versus 500 sprockets per insignia. And that sprockets are also required in large quantities for crafting popular sigils. And runes. And portals.

And the sprockets got farmed pretty darn heavily when they existed, as opposed to crystals which could only be mined.

Edit: Also of note, Candy Corn. Which you need 20,000 of for a Halloween weapon. Among other things which no longer drop until next year (and a lot of those things too). These are also incredibly popular, and would require . . . you guessed it, going to the trading post for them too.

Really, at this point, I’m surprised people kick up a fuss at all anymore over this stuff. According to some subscriptions to theory, this game has been “pay to win” since GW1 era. It was “pay to win” back when it began, too, and now this item appears and suddenly this changes?

No. It doesn’t. No, I don’t think this is “pay to win”, I don’t think those home instance ore nodes you can purchase count as "pay to win’ either, and unless there’s a massive overhaul which makes Power/Precision/Healing the most desirable statistic arrangement I don’t see this being anywhere near an incredible problem.

Now, what is a problem? Not being able to get Ascended Armor through any other method than crafting your fingers off.

The very 1st time these picks went on sale they were meant to be ‘one time only purchases’. Which was false as now they’re on TP almost every few weeks.

I expect sprockets will stop dropping soon – so this discussion will become even more valid.
The invasions of Scarlett’s minions are likely to stop.
The LP boss will stop (in a few weeks)

So this then becomes who has the pick can get this stuff quickly/easily (in large quantities) those which don’t will be really messed up if they only have a home node instance.

yorick.1305:

The very 1st time these picks went on sale they were meant to be ‘one time only purchases’. Which was false as now they’re on TP almost every few weeks.

Yup. Probably from people complaining about them being one time only. Incidentally why we get the Living Story instead of one time events like Lost Shores.

. . . and the game is much the better for it.

TPMN.1483:

I expect sprockets will stop dropping soon – so this discussion will become even more valid.
The invasions of Scarlett’s minions are likely to stop.
The LP boss will stop (in a few weeks)

So this then becomes who has the pick can get this stuff quickly/easily (in large quantities) those which don’t will be really messed up if they only have a home node instance.

The Scarlett minion invasions are set to be permanent content. When the Gauntlet returns that will reintroduce a huge sprocket farm once again, same as when the Zephyr Sanctum returns and quartz mining is once again abundant.

VOLKON.1290:

TPMN.1483:

I expect sprockets will stop dropping soon – so this discussion will become even more valid.
The invasions of Scarlett’s minions are likely to stop.
The LP boss will stop (in a few weeks)

So this then becomes who has the pick can get this stuff quickly/easily (in large quantities) those which don’t will be really messed up if they only have a home node instance.

The Scarlett minion invasions are set to be permanent content. When the Gauntlet returns that will reintroduce a huge sprocket farm once again, same as when the Zephyr Sanctum returns and quartz mining is once again abundant.

Note: They have said the invasions will stop with the Scarlet arc.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VOLKON.1290:

TPMN.1483:

I expect sprockets will stop dropping soon – so this discussion will become even more valid.
The invasions of Scarlett’s minions are likely to stop.
The LP boss will stop (in a few weeks)

So this then becomes who has the pick can get this stuff quickly/easily (in large quantities) those which don’t will be really messed up if they only have a home node instance.

The Scarlett minion invasions are set to be permanent content. When the Gauntlet returns that will reintroduce a huge sprocket farm once again, same as when the Zephyr Sanctum returns and quartz mining is once again abundant.

Note: They have said the invasions will stop with the Scarlet arc.

Did they? I missed that. I suppose it makes sense logically. Too bad, once in awhile I’ll go do one just for fun.

VOLKON.1290:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VOLKON.1290:

TPMN.1483:

I expect sprockets will stop dropping soon – so this discussion will become even more valid.
The invasions of Scarlett’s minions are likely to stop.
The LP boss will stop (in a few weeks)

So this then becomes who has the pick can get this stuff quickly/easily (in large quantities) those which don’t will be really messed up if they only have a home node instance.

The Scarlett minion invasions are set to be permanent content. When the Gauntlet returns that will reintroduce a huge sprocket farm once again, same as when the Zephyr Sanctum returns and quartz mining is once again abundant.

Note: They have said the invasions will stop with the Scarlet arc.

Did they? I missed that. I suppose it makes sense logically. Too bad, once in awhile I’ll go do one just for fun.

I would, but there usually aren’t people interested in doing them. However, Pavilion Champion Trains will start running again and make Queensdale look tame by comparison.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

dAcIaW.5107:

so how much ranting is needed to get a response from Anet about this P2W kitten?

. . . where’s the “win” getting paid for? Aren’t sprockets tradeable?

It’s really not about p2w at all. Even the fact that this pick can produce sprockets is a least problem here. The real trouble comes from the fact that it is undeniably superior to the molten and bone pick. That means, i just can’t be certain buying anything from the shop, that tomorrow an new, Improved version will not show up making that one i bought obsolete.
It is, as someone already mentioned, something akin to a gear treadmill, only with shop items.

VOLKON.1290:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VOLKON.1290:

TPMN.1483:

I expect sprockets will stop dropping soon – so this discussion will become even more valid.
The invasions of Scarlett’s minions are likely to stop.
The LP boss will stop (in a few weeks)

So this then becomes who has the pick can get this stuff quickly/easily (in large quantities) those which don’t will be really messed up if they only have a home node instance.

The Scarlett minion invasions are set to be permanent content. When the Gauntlet returns that will reintroduce a huge sprocket farm once again, same as when the Zephyr Sanctum returns and quartz mining is once again abundant.

Note: They have said the invasions will stop with the Scarlet arc.

Did they? I missed that. I suppose it makes sense logically. Too bad, once in awhile I’ll go do one just for fun.

They did. It also makes no sense to have them when there is no Scarlet to lead them.

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

dAcIaW.5107:

so how much ranting is needed to get a response from Anet about this P2W kitten?

. . . where’s the “win” getting paid for? Aren’t sprockets tradeable?

It’s really not about p2w at all. Even the fact that this pick can produce sprockets is a least problem here. The real trouble comes from the fact that it is undeniably superior to the molten and bone pick. That means, i just can’t be certain buying anything from the shop, that tomorrow an new, Improved version will not show up making that one i bought obsolete.
It is, as someone already mentioned, something akin to a gear treadmill, only with shop items.

This is a much better argument I’m not addressing because it’s something I can agree with. Somewhat. Though if this pick becomes in rotation with the other unlimited items, well, it’s not limited availability and it’s . . . what, the same amount as the Molten Pick?

Honestly I’d have issued this as either a certified reward for doing some ridiculously hard content or be available for 800 Gems or have a random drop rate of like 1% from the Marionette win chest. If I was required to introduce it at all.

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

dAcIaW.5107:

so how much ranting is needed to get a response from Anet about this P2W kitten?

. . . where’s the “win” getting paid for? Aren’t sprockets tradeable?

It’s really not about p2w at all. Even the fact that this pick can produce sprockets is a least problem here. The real trouble comes from the fact that it is undeniably superior to the molten and bone pick. That means, i just can’t be certain buying anything from the shop, that tomorrow an new, Improved version will not show up making that one i bought obsolete.
It is, as someone already mentioned, something akin to a gear treadmill, only with shop items.

Correct.

I had no idea about this sprocket chance/thing as the item description is exactly the same as the Molten one.

yorick.1305:

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

dAcIaW.5107:

so how much ranting is needed to get a response from Anet about this P2W kitten?

. . . where’s the “win” getting paid for? Aren’t sprockets tradeable?

It’s really not about p2w at all. Even the fact that this pick can produce sprockets is a least problem here. The real trouble comes from the fact that it is undeniably superior to the molten and bone pick. That means, i just can’t be certain buying anything from the shop, that tomorrow an new, Improved version will not show up making that one i bought obsolete.
It is, as someone already mentioned, something akin to a gear treadmill, only with shop items.

Correct.

I had no idea about this sprocket chance/thing as the item description is exactly the same as the Molten one.

Interesting thought if the Molten Pick was stealth-patched to produce Azurite . . . hmmm . . .

Exactly. Some seem to assume Anet will stop at sprockets. What about azurite orbs for the molten pick. Is that still OK? I’ll give you the answer: no. And I say this owning a molten pick myself.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

yorick.1305:

Astralporing.1957:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

dAcIaW.5107:

so how much ranting is needed to get a response from Anet about this P2W kitten?

. . . where’s the “win” getting paid for? Aren’t sprockets tradeable?

It’s really not about p2w at all. Even the fact that this pick can produce sprockets is a least problem here. The real trouble comes from the fact that it is undeniably superior to the molten and bone pick. That means, i just can’t be certain buying anything from the shop, that tomorrow an new, Improved version will not show up making that one i bought obsolete.
It is, as someone already mentioned, something akin to a gear treadmill, only with shop items.

Correct.

I had no idea about this sprocket chance/thing as the item description is exactly the same as the Molten one.

Interesting thought if the Molten Pick was stealth-patched to produce Azurite . . . hmmm . . .

Yes, it would be different if any of the infinite tools had a chance to produce one (different for each) limited access material. Then they would be alternate, but equal versions. (and from anet’s point of view – it would incentivize people to have all of them, not just the latest version).

killcannon.2576

I’m not using a slippery slope argument.

To quote your earlier statement…

Yes, the sprockets are a small thing. So let’s just move the goal post a little further…then a little further…then a little more.

killcannon.2576

A game becomes pay to win as soon as you can buy things with money that are not available to everyone else in game through normal game play. It’s that simple. The game has always been pay to win to some extent, it just wasn’t very blunt about it.
Can I also get a pick in game through normal game play that has a bonus chance of spitting out sprockets? No? p2w.

Actually yes. Buy a regular pick, go to a Sprocket Node in a Home Instance.
Again, you can get them through normal game play… via said Sprocket Node. Or buying them off the TP if you really want them. All without having to pay a single Gem. Not P2W.

What the people who are arguing for keeping this and things like this in game are using is a shifting sands logical fallacy. You said it yourself, if it gave out gold coins…then it would be pay to win. Why? It spits out sprockets worth…you guessed it…money. It’s just not that much. But it’s the same exact thing as a pick that would spit out gold coins at your feet. The only thing that is different is a persons perception of what is worthwhile.
Which is a logical fallacy. This is not subjective.

I was using the absurdity of your Hyperbole to show sarcasm (which at 4AM in the morning, seemed a lot funnier to me. :P) Truth of the matter is, just about all ore nodes gives you gold. Just take whatever you mine and go sell it. Look! Gold!

Joking and sarcasm aside, you continue to ignore the fact that the materials gained by this can be, and will continue to be obtainable for those that have the time and put the effort in.
With this in mind, lets look over this, shall we?

Assuming a worst case scenario, the material in question, Sprockets, will no longer drop in the game from enemies (this is an unfounded assumption at the moment, but lets just roll with that for now…)

That means there will be three ways to obtain them…
- A Pick you can buy from the Gem store that gives a chance of you getting some…
- A node specifically devoted to them in your Home Instance…
- Buying them from other players via the Trading Post…

Two out of three methods by which to gain these materials does not require you spending any real money at all.
If P2W means that you can only get something in a game via spending real money (as it has been stated) then your argument falls short. Because…
SPROCKETS CAN STILL BE OBTAINED IN GAME
Not P2W.

Buttercup.5871:

Exactly. Some seem to assume Anet will stop at sprockets. What about azurite orbs for the molten pick. Is that still OK? I’ll give you the answer: no. And I say this owning a molten pick myself.

Speaking as someone who missed out on Azurite during F&F . . . yeah, I’d like it to be available more often. And if they make the pick available semi-regularly? I wouldn’t mind it at all. Provided there was normal access to Azurite during some of the year.

If all the unlimited tools had a specific, unusual gathering item associated with them (which nevertheless is available at recurring intervals) this wouldn’t be as much of a conversation.

My problem is “if i would known they going to release a better mining pick, I wouldn’t have bought the molten alliance mining pick”. I think many people felt the same way.

Haven’t read the entire thread, since well, 9 pages and all.

But while it’s not pay-to-win (having this doesn’t make any better at the actual gameplay than anyone else, it just makes you a little more efficient at collecting gold for vanities), it is another step along a path of blatent monetisation which, compared with other factors, are steadily making me less and less enthused about the game in general.

The step in particular, in my mind, is that most things from the gem store that are related to resource gathering only serve to make you a little more efficient. This, on the other hand, is giving buyers the ability to gather a resource that, at best, everyone without one can only reliably harvest at a rate of three per day (plus whatever they get from the appropriate champion boxes).

It’s not a crossing of a clearly-defined line, but it is certainly inching a little bit further towards the PTW line.

It is kind of silly that so much time seems to be spent coding these new gem store items that most people wont care about, and the people who do care would have already bought an earlier version of an unlimited mining pick, so now they have to buy a second to get this bonus. But how is this pw2.

You buy gems to get the new pick and get a slow amount of sprockets from mining, or you buy gems, convert it to gold, and buy sprockets from the TP. Either way involves cash being transferred into in game items. Even if the price of sprockets goes up 10000% and people with this pick have an easier time making gold than others its still not p2w, unless people consider the gold grind to be the point of this game, and then the entire gems > gold currency exchange has already been p2w since launch.

P2w would be something like a gem store weapon that has greater stats than a legendary, or something silly like that. Not trying to defend it, but peoples idea of p2w seems wrong

Ehm I hate to break this to a lot of people; but how can you call items like this P2W when you can directly convert RL money to ingame money? You can already get everything you could possibly want if you’re willing to pay for it.. Seriously, that ship sailed a long time ago.

JeRune.3512:

Ehm I hate to break this to a lot of people; but how can you call items like this P2W when you can directly convert RL money to ingame money? You can already get everything you could possibly want if you’re willing to pay for it.

The distinction is that other items can be acquired in two ways, either in-game, which requires time, or by paying. The argument is that now you can pay for something that is not otherwise obtainable in-game. (Which isn’t really true, I’d say, so this is really still ‘convenience’.)

laokoko.7403:

Ayrilana.1396:

I wouldn’t necessarily call it pay to win since the sprockets do not provide you any advantage over other players.

Exactly. Which is exactly like buying gold. That don’t provide any advantage over other players.

I don’t get why people are suddenly bothered by things already happening.

The only thing the sprocket mining pick do is making people more gold. Which is already what you can do now with gem conversion.

The sprockets aren’t what most of us (or me) are talking about. It’s the precedent that it sets. There is no other way to get these without the pick at certain times. It makes it so that if you use a gem shop item you can get something that others can not acquire at certain times. That is setting a precedent for other items to do this with that may be more important and it’s also doing it with something seemingly innocuous. Next time it will be something more important and then it happens again and again until it’s the new normal.

The precedent was already set with the old digital deluxe edition/digital deluxe edition with heroic edition items. Around six months ago.
People should have complained earlier. They didn’t.

Manuhell.2759:

The precedent was already set with the old digital deluxe edition/digital deluxe edition with heroic edition items. Around six months ago.
People should have complained earlier. They didn’t.

I’m pretty sure people complaint about that among with many other things. There are just far more complaint on the watchwork pick.

I can’t understand how anyone can even think of defending this.

To me, this is a new low. This makes me lose faith in GW2 more than ANY of the other stupid changes in the past, more than any of the failures of the game —- and there have been quite a few (overflow system, living story content not replayable in any shape or form, a lot of the changes they make to “balance” the game, upping the price on a bunch of already over priced gemstore items, ridiculous RNG gemstore chests —- especially for weapon skins, selling human t3 reskin as a gemstore item, etc etc).

Honestly, just a sad day for GW2. Every time I re-find the motivation to keep playing this game after a stupid change/event, ANet kicks me in the nuts again. It’s like they WANT me to stop playing…

Signed, seconded, endorsed.

ANet, please think again.

laokoko.7403:

Manuhell.2759:

The precedent was already set with the old digital deluxe edition/digital deluxe edition with heroic edition items. Around six months ago.
People should have complained earlier. They didn’t.

I’m pretty sure people complaint about that among with many other things. There are just far more complaint on the watchwork pick.

That’s the matter – very few people complained, as there were few people involved. And the other people called them self-entitled.
This is just a repetition on a bigger scale, as there are more people involved. But they aren’t setting a precedent – it was already there. People just ignored it.

I haven’t been keeping up with the game as much as I should in the last 4-6 weeks…just large scale stuff.

Reading this…makes me hrmmmz.

I agree that 20% is low enough and that sprockets are junk. Who cares?

But I also agree with Vol that it is a dangerous precedent. If this sort of functionality/mechanic existed to provide you with ascended materials, and the pick was only available through the gemstore or some ~1% chance RNG of a drop from a boss chest..yeah, you are teetering on P2W.

Who is making these decisions over at arenanet?

JeRune.3512:

Ehm I hate to break this to a lot of people; but how can you call items like this P2W when you can directly convert RL money to ingame money? You can already get everything you could possibly want if you’re willing to pay for it.. Seriously, that ship sailed a long time ago.

Because if you play the game enough you can earn enough gold to do whatever you want.

So if/when scarlet’s minions go away and sprockets can ONLY be obtained through one method: these watchwork picks via the gemstore…thats where the problem lies. theres no alternative to acquiring these goods without dropping RL cash.

Granted, sprockets are worthless. Its the principle of the matter that Vol is concerned with and I agree with him on that.

Manuhell.2759:

laokoko.7403:

Manuhell.2759:

The precedent was already set with the old digital deluxe edition/digital deluxe edition with heroic edition items. Around six months ago.
People should have complained earlier. They didn’t.

I’m pretty sure people complaint about that among with many other things. There are just far more complaint on the watchwork pick.

That’s the matter – very few people complained, as there were few people involved. And the other people called them self-entitled.
This is just a repetition on a bigger scale, as there are more people involved. But they aren’t setting a precedent – it was already there. People just ignored it.

No, the matter is anytime . . . anytime . . . something is added or changed there’s a group who try to paint it as the most terrible thing ever. If it happens to be a gemstore addition which has no impact other than existing? “They’re out to take our money for junk.” If it happens to be useful? “Pay to win!”

It’s really tiring to see the same thing come up again and again with the hardliners ignoring GW1 having a store (with an arguably P2W component, much worse than anything currently in the GW2 store) and basically sensationalizing with hyperbole to try to make their point.

If the game is about cosmetics being “the win” then GW1 was P2W long before GW2 was announced. So nothing’s new here. If P2W is about people being able to skip loads of getting things you can get through work and effort? GW1 did it long before GW2 was announced. Again, nothing new here.

The biggest difference between the two? GW2 players can convert gold to Gems as opposed to being required to reach for plastic cards.

So if we could drop the argument of “pay to win” and focus instead on the added effect of the pick? That’d be great. Because it is indeed, just a little bit of BS to have it when earlier picks did not have anything.

cesmode.4257:

So if/when scarlet’s minions go away and sprockets can ONLY be obtained through one method: these watchwork picks via the gemstore…thats where the problem lies. theres no alternative to acquiring these goods without dropping RL cash.

Or, you know, completing the still active meta achievement for this living story? Seriously. It can get done by next Tuesday if it goes away then, and if it stays another two weeks it will be incredibly simple to get.

Plus if/when Queen’s Pavilion comes back . . .

Or you can just purchase them off the TP and I almost am sure the sprockets won’t get near the price of some tier 6 materials.

Granted, sprockets are worthless. Its the principle of the matter that Vol is concerned with and I agree with him on that.

It’s concerning this wasn’t mentioned. It’ll be less concerning if they come right out and say “sprockets will always be available sometime during the year somehow”.

My pick is now automagically now redundant as the best possible pick, because I’m not getting the best value that I had originally brought.

Awful change.

I will just add my opinion.

It’s another offending practice in GW2 and I feel disappointed.

I guess they want me to feel bad for spending money on my 11 sets of unlimited tools.
Well so they made their point. I really feel bad…

So what is next? How can I be more disappointed?
They sold Mr Sparkles for real world cash already (with some extra bonus gems)

I will ask how much does it has to go to make them let us feel like this game has lost it’s all standards that worked in terms of game shop items for over a year.

Sadly this makes my game experience bad and I have already started looking for another game since December Mr Sparkles sell. So I will see how many more slaps in the face will I take.

Have fun everyone who think it’s funny. Others probably like me don’t see it like that.

the problem sits with players who think the game is fair, thats an illusion (not unsimilar to a mesmer’s clones) how is it fair that some ppl get a precursor after a week and other dont get one after a year of playing the forge? wake-up the games not fair.

i wish the player base would become more shrewd and not give into the lure of “rip off” convenience, if people stop enriching anet for stupid convenience items it would force them to have to make money off good content, so try tell me different but in a lot of way the players asked for this.