Guild Wars 2

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick, you don’t need to remain in the dark on this. Engage with issues, evaluate them, and employ critical thinking. All issues of personal preference ends when customers buy a product based on those preferences and find that the company has changed the product to meet the personal preferences of someone else. That’s the dynamic that is playing out here. We can know it and we can object to it.

I’m not saying you can’t! But I also pre-ordered gw2 and I also have my own opinions. I really like the idea after AC gear and I just don’t consider it to be a gear treadmill just like you do.

There are many things I don’t like about gw2. For example the hearts mechanic and their reword system. It’s just bad and unsatisfying. And many other things. But this thread is not about that!

Cheers!

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick, you don’t need to remain in the dark on this. Engage with issues, evaluate them, and employ critical thinking. All issues of personal preference ends when customers buy a product based on those preferences and find that the company has changed the product to meet the personal preferences of someone else. That’s the dynamic that is playing out here. We can know it and we can object to it.

I’m not saying you can’t! But I also pre-ordered gw2 and I also have my own opinions. I really like the idea after AC gear and I just don’t consider it to be a gear treadmill just like you do.

There are many things I don’t like about gw2. For example the hearts mechanic and their reword system. It’s just bad and unsatisfying. And many other things. But this thread is not about that!

Cheers!

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Raine.1394:

But, saying you don’t listen to people on forums begs the question. Why are you here?

Where did I say that?

Raine.1394:

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Why?

HiddenNick.7206:

So why should I listen to gamers from forums about what people really thinks?

You said it right there.

The OP speaks the truth. Too much hate and exaggeration of the negatives, ignoring of the positives on this forum.

People would have a lot more fun if they didn’t waste their energy on this.

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Why?

Because we are dealing with an unresolved question: Is it a gear treadmill? I say it is, you say it isn’t. It’s a simple question to answer. If we come up with a definition of “gear treadmill” we can evaluate the introduction of Ascended gear based upon that definition. Then, we won’t have that unresolved question standing between us.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

cherrie.8907:

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

cherrie.8907:

The amount of bitterness is proportional to the amount of wrongdoing (perceived).
I personally would be off the forums by now, as much as I am out of the game fror a week now, if it wasn’t for the fact that I can’t ge ta re-fund because I pre-purchased too early.

So since I’m stuck with the product, I’d like to see it back to the state that was marketed to me, or at least some real communication adressing the true issues.

You’re wrong. If you prepurchased online, you can have your refund. Guaranteed 100%, try.

Up to six months after purchase.
I pre-purchased in April.

Your ticket has been escalated to me as a supervisor for NCsoft Payments and Account Support.

In regards to your refund request, I do have to report that the information that you were provided with previously was correct, we are unable to extend refunds on purchases that are greater than 6-months in age.

You truly bough the game more than 6 months ago?

MANY of us bought the game more than six months ago. We participated in the beta weekends. We listened to what the devs were saying the game would be, and we saw it coming to life.

We waited over three months. There are GW1 folks who waited FIVE YEARS. That’s how long ANet was working on the game, and talking about the game’s premise. Five. Years.

So, yes, it is quite a shock to be told the premise has changed after 2 1/2 months of being live.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

You came from Diablo III to this ~ I immediately jumped off that failwagon soon as GW2 was launched, arguably the game was much better back then. Obviously, a game has to evolve and obviously, it isn’t going to please everyone all the time – the problem is, it honestly feels like anet are catering to the minority here, being the hardcore but vocal crowd who wanted a proper endgame progression, anet delivered it without thinking what that actually ment for the game.

I have repeatedly stated on this site and the Guru site while this game was in development if they went down this path of catering to loud mouthed raiders who make up bout 2% of the actual mmo population, I was getting the F out of dodge. I also said that the MAX population of a gear grind was going to be about 200,000 for a GOOD gear progression game. And the only way they will be able to compete with other phat lootz gear grinds, is to totally abandon pvp balance, which they have already done, hell their not even worried about pvp dynamics they have to get back to square one before they even get back to basics at this point.

Also it doesn’t matter if they betray their player base now or later what they “thought” was that if they backstabbed everyone early enough it would be fresh enough a wound you would ignore it and just give them infinite second chances because the game is still new. Which is the same mentality as waterboarding first graders. But this is not something they just came up with a few months ago, no they planned this from the beginning, which means they think you are easily manipulated, which doesn’t boost my confidence in them.

Since when are personal game experience and forum opinions linked? I’ve played many unpopular games didn’t affect my enjoyment in the slightest – I’ve never left a game just because someone else did either, nor have I ever announced my departure from a game on a forum. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion – my opinion for what it’s worth is – posts telling other members of the community what they can and cannot do should be left those in charge of the forum.

Raine.1394:

You said it right there.

But I just showed you that on forums everyone hates CoD and the majority of people buy it and enjoy it!

I’m not saying that people on forums are not saying what they really think! I’m just saying that they are not representative of what majority of people thinks.

So … the game was ruined for me due to Anet’s compromise of its manifesto. A manifesto that encouraged me to spend my hard earned money with the false illusion that this game would not be a gear grind game. As it turns out, three months later it becomes exactly that … a dreaded gear grind game. And now you and your gear-grind buddies want me to go away quietly so that you and your pro-treadmill buddies can enjoy, not just your gear grinder of a game, but also your forum in peace.

That is so cute … a bit selfish maybe …. but cute.

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Why?

Because we are dealing with an unresolved question: Is it a gear treadmill? I say it is, you say it isn’t. It’s a simple question to answer. If we come up with a definition of “gear treadmill” we can evaluate the introduction of Ascended gear based upon that definition. Then, we won’t have that unresolved question standing between us.

I really don’t care if it is a gear trademill or not. I just think that AC gear is just a great idea. I don’t want to argue who is right and who is wrong in regard of AC gear! So just stop asking about it.

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Why?

Because we are dealing with an unresolved question: Is it a gear treadmill? I say it is, you say it isn’t. It’s a simple question to answer. If we come up with a definition of “gear treadmill” we can evaluate the introduction of Ascended gear based upon that definition. Then, we won’t have that unresolved question standing between us.

A gear treadmill is a system where you must perpetually put in effort to maintain the same level of power as the content around you succumbs to power creep.

Ascended is not a treadmill, as it acts as a higher plateau, demonstrable by the fact that legendaries will be elevated to ascended strength. similar to how exotics were before ascended was introduced.

You can only rightfully claim that there is a treadmill if they add another degree of equipment stronger than ascended at some point in the future. With the express intent of drawing out item progression and forcing you to put perpetual effort into the game to maintain the plateau of power.

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

You said it right there.

But I just showed you that on forums everyone hates CoD and the majority of people buy it and enjoy it!

I’m not saying that people on forums are not saying what they really think! I’m just saying that they are not representative of what majority of people thinks.

How do we know what the majority of people think about the game at any given point in time? Earlier you posted the user reviews of GW2 and I agree that user reviews are one good metric. In our case, time frame introduces a significant factor, i.e., we are dealing with an event that happened this weekend and we would need data post event to even consider this one metric. But, how do we know that they represent the majority of people playing the game at that point in time?

I’m literally asking you just that one question. How do we know what the majority of people think about GW2, CoD, or any other game?

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Why?

Because we are dealing with an unresolved question: Is it a gear treadmill? I say it is, you say it isn’t. It’s a simple question to answer. If we come up with a definition of “gear treadmill” we can evaluate the introduction of Ascended gear based upon that definition. Then, we won’t have that unresolved question standing between us.

I really don’t care if it is a gear trademill or not. I just think that AC gear is just a great idea. I don’t want to argue who is right and who is wrong in regard of AC gear! So just stop asking about it.

Well we do, I know you loot grind locusts love that crap, thats what we were trying to get away from, we were trying to get away from you and your ilk.

Speaking of which am I the only one still waiting on my refund? I mean I will get off these forums just as soon as I get my money back due to false advertisement.

Enjoy the low population wasteland raiders.

Alice.8694:

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Why?

Because we are dealing with an unresolved question: Is it a gear treadmill? I say it is, you say it isn’t. It’s a simple question to answer. If we come up with a definition of “gear treadmill” we can evaluate the introduction of Ascended gear based upon that definition. Then, we won’t have that unresolved question standing between us.

A gear treadmill is a system where you must perpetually put in effort to maintain the same level of power as the content around you succumbs to power creep.

Ascended is not a treadmill, as it acts as a higher plateau, demonstrable by the fact that legendaries will be elevated to ascended strength. similar to how exotics were before ascended was introduced.

You can only rightfully claim that there is a treadmill if they add another degree of equipment stronger than ascended at some point in the future. With the express intent of drawing out item progression and forcing you to put perpetual effort into the game to maintain the plateau of power.

We can play word semantics from now till kingdom come.

Its a gear grinder, period.

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

The forums are for the people who still play the game, not for those who have left the game for whatever reason. The problem is, the second type of people are still on the forums spewing their hatred for the changes in the game. This makes it a hostile environment for those of us who do still play this game.

Again, this forum is for those who DO play the game. If you don’t play the game anymore for whatever reason, please move elsewhere. Thank you.

Sorry to have to disagree. The forums are for those who spent money on the game, whether they choose to play or not. These people are within their rights to ask for the developer to live up to its promises.

Uhm my opinion: This Game Was Wanderfull. I was love it, Was play it, but at the end level with all exotic BRING, the gw2 dont give more to do… PvP its also very borig, no interesting reward, Ladder board system exist? WvW its also borig if u dont found a nice closed team to play it…
More thant all this think, that can anyone cross, i found a very big problem:
A die comunity into a game.. Guilds are like frezee, havent any type of attivity inside: Lfg on some dungeon and not anymore.. Gw2 take way of boring game, expecially for a low comunity. I left to speak about “lag on event” that was come trascurable.. but.. lag on WvW its very boring and take it very very less attractive…
I love this game, but for my personal opinion, its less than a alpha game. Gw2 need to insert mooooooore think for end level player!!.
I hope That a nice team of Aranet will can do it and give me to return to play like past to this game that have a wanderfull potentiality.

P-s-
Excuse me for a very bad english, i hope that some one can understand what i want to tell…bb

Alice.8694:

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Why?

Because we are dealing with an unresolved question: Is it a gear treadmill? I say it is, you say it isn’t. It’s a simple question to answer. If we come up with a definition of “gear treadmill” we can evaluate the introduction of Ascended gear based upon that definition. Then, we won’t have that unresolved question standing between us.

A gear treadmill is a system where you must perpetually put in effort to maintain the same level of power as the content around you succumbs to power creep.

Ascended is not a treadmill, as it acts as a higher plateau, demonstrable by the fact that legendaries will be elevated to ascended strength. similar to how exotics were before ascended was introduced.

You can only rightfully claim that there is a treadmill if they add another degree of equipment stronger than ascended at some point in the future. With the express intent of drawing out item progression and forcing you to put perpetual effort into the game to maintain the plateau of power.

A new plateau sounds much better than stat inflation or gear grind or treadmill. But, even if a new plateau is really nice and has a great view you generally have to do a bit of walking to get there, eh? So, the before state is that exotics and Legendaries both share the same stats or power level. The after state is a new tier of gear that has higher stats and power level. And, to acquire the better gear you have to perform actions and spend time (read grind) in-game solely to reach the new power level (whether it’s fun for someone or not misses the point). Shakespeare said it best: “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet”. Mike addressed the issue better than I could: “Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”

proxy.7963:

An issue I have with this is not that people are expressing their disappointment, but the feeling that they are choosing to do so in a way that could be considered to involve souring the community by their actions – actions that they may feel are warranted. Those who are strongly against recent changes have exhibited dismissive and occasionally mocking attitudes towards those who don’t share their opinions when they should – by all rights – be taking a higher moral ground. The forums aren’t just for feedback – they should be about building and maintaining a positive community as well, not simply to be used as a podium for people to voice their upset. I’m fine with that upset in itself, I just question the use of moderation and sensitivity towards those who would rather not see dozens of repetitions every day of the same topics by the same posters.

proxy.7963:

(One) problem is people thinking that their opinions and experiences should overwhelm those of others and that those whose opinions differ are, as a result, less valuable to discussion when in fact discussion and debate relies on them to be constructive and not pointless echo chambers.

This is what I am trying to say. I am not so spineless as to have people’s opinions of something COMPLETELY ruin something for me. As I said, D3 was incredibly hard to play well and still get satisfying rewards from. Guess what I did, I switched to another ARPG, one about a thousand times more rewarding, and less than half the price. I stopped playing that game because I started playing GW2. I’m still going to play GW2, but as Proxy said, the forums shouldn’t be a place of hostility, no matter how well reasoned. They should still promote positive and constructive feedback, but not threads that basically say “If you still like this game and aren’t outraged by sudden changes then you aren’t very aware of how badly you were scammed..” etc.

My post is selfish yes. I am selfishly asking people to tone down the harshness of their posts when it comes to expressing their concern. I am selfishly asking people that if they want to change the game for the better, for everyone, then to do so without bashing other players, the developers or the gaming community. I come here because I care about the game, and the Guild Wars gaming community, and I’ll say this as well: If I was a developer, the first thing I would do is read the forums for feedback, and I am positive ANET does this.

I also believe that if you do not receive a response from the developers, as quickly as you would like, it’s probably because they are still evaluating feedback and/or coming up with solutions! Not because they are ignoring you.

ANET is in touch with their gamer community. The fact they had an AMA on Reddit and will have another one! (after such a ‘horrid’ content release) means they have the courage to listen to you in REAL TIME expressing your concerns. I applaud them. I am looking forward to that discussion as well.

I have to say that I agree with the OP. These forums are toxic. I rarely look at them anymore. When I do I usually am trying to find something specific.

Yes I have seen many developers destroy great games by not listening to their player/fan base (SWTOR comes to mind immediately! But there are others.) But I also have seen many great games completely destroyed by the “comments” (or should I say ranting feedback?) in their forums (you know what, SWTOR also comes to mind here.) I think the OP was asking for people to maybe step back, take a long look at what is REALLY important and maybe calm down a little.

I use to go to these forums to find answers to things I found in the game. Dig for information. Find clues to quests. Find solutions to bugs, etc. Honestly now its just a toxic soup of a negative feedback loop.

No ranting and raving will NOT get you results faster. I promise you that ArenaNet is listening and reading these forums. They are quite aware of what the issues are at this point. Just because every bullet point on your list (personal or otherwise) has not been addressed yet does not mean there is some conspiracy to ignore you, or to ruin the game, or to turn the game into something you dislike. AreanNet has NO vested interest in ruining their game. They are NOT sitting there in their offices in Washington trying to find ways to screw over their player base. I promise you they are not trying to go back on their word (manifesto) and ruin the universe for you or to commit “fraud.” They worked on this for 5 or more years, they do NOT want to ruin it for you or themselves.

What they are seemingly trying to do is find ways to make everyone happy. They are playing around with different ideas, finding the solutions that work for as many people as possible. You may not understand this, or you may actually forget, or who knows, – but just a few weeks ago there were huge amounts of people ASKING ArenaNet for more loot, more ways to get new and interesting gear. There were tons of people saying they hate the game because their is NO loot progression, that there is no grind, no way to to feel more “accomplished” by sporting ‘leet gear. People were saying that anything above exotic gear was too hard to get, that their should be a middle set, somewhere in between. So they introduce a new tier of armor..one that is totally optional, that you do not need to pursue, that does not actually impact the game in any real way other then give certain people something new to to achieve. That is it. It’s just something new to achieve (if you so choose.) It’s not a conspiracy to ruin your life. It is not a gear treadmill. Not even close.

I was disappointed with Lost Shores. Many people were/are. Their are parts I like, but parts I hate. The one time event was a wreck. BUT… I made my point to ArenaNet about that. They obviously understand it went horribly wrong. The surveys sent out, I think, are a way to cut through the din of negative feedback loops and get people’s opinions on an individual basis. When I got that request for feedback in email I answered with my opinions, positive and negative (and in some cases harshly.) There are parts I loved, parts that were horrible, and parts I want to see change or not happen ever again. But the point is they are listening. They WILL take all the feedback and do something. What that is may take time. They are under NO obligation to tell you what that is just yet. You are a customer, yes, but you are not privy to their plans and you do not need to be. Let it grow. Let’s see what they do with it…

It may not be what you want, wish, demand or hope. But it will be something. And if its not what you want, and you can’t live with it otherwise – then its time to look at what you DO want and GO there. Maybe one will suit your needs. If you feel you need to stay and keep ranting, then do so -but make it constructive. Talk like a human being, not a rage-bot hammering away on their keyboard, spouting conspiracies and bile. Obviously you will be sticking around because you care about the game right, even if your pissed off? But if your just sitting here, typing the same thing over and over again, repeating yourself in every post about how you hate this or that…well then what is your point? What is it your really trying to say?

Actually debating, and discussion is awesome. Good communities do that. If you don’t agree, then say something. But SAY it, don’t… well telling the original poster to kitten Yeah… not good. That is why these forums are toxic. THAT.

Flame away.

Raine.1394:

I’m literally asking you just that one question. How do we know what the majority of people think about GW2, CoD, or any other game?

I didn’t said that I know what majority of people think about gw2. I just know that the forums are not the place to seek answer whether a game is good or not. Forum is a place where people don’t agree with each other and whine about things not the opposite.

And for some of you… Trying to discuss AC gear here is a short way to thread closed!

Thank you ravinboy, for understanding the gist of this topic. Let’s help each other out, not bash each other in.

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

There’s a simple resolution to the question. Could you define gear treadmill for me?

Why?

Because we are dealing with an unresolved question: Is it a gear treadmill? I say it is, you say it isn’t. It’s a simple question to answer. If we come up with a definition of “gear treadmill” we can evaluate the introduction of Ascended gear based upon that definition. Then, we won’t have that unresolved question standing between us.

I really don’t care if it is a gear trademill or not. I just think that AC gear is just a great idea. I don’t want to argue who is right and who is wrong in regard of AC gear! So just stop asking about it.

So, you went from believing it was not a treadmill to not caring whether it’s a treadmill or not. And, I don’t believe anyone engaging the question cares about who is right or who is wrong (well, maybe some do). It seems the more important issue is whether Anet has in fact violated their manifesto by introducing a tired “preparing to have fun” game design element called a gear grind—a thing they said was not a feature of the game. If so, they need to come out with it. They can’t call it bridging a gap (there was no gap), or a new plateau—they have too many adult customers. They need to simply account for their behavior. It would also be nice if they attempted to make things right. What’s right HiddenNick? Right is what they represented the game to be in their own words. It’s not your “right” or my “right”, it’s their “right”. It’s the reason I bought GW2 and gave a huge sigh of relief…for almost three months.

HiddenNick.7206:

Raine.1394:

I’m literally asking you just that one question. How do we know what the majority of people think about GW2, CoD, or any other game?

I didn’t said that I know what majority of people think about gw2. I just know that the forums are not the place to seek answer whether a game is good or not. Forum is a place where people don’t agree with each other and whine about things not the opposite.

And for some of you… Trying to discuss AC gear here is a short way to thread closed!

But the GW2 forums were excellent for an official game companies forums. I came from time to time and generally found them friendly, constructive, and helpful. What you describe as generally true of forums was not the case at all with GW2. It changed overnight when the patch contents were digested. What happened to cause the change?

dendrite.2031:

proxy.7963:

An issue I have with this is not that people are expressing their disappointment, but the feeling that they are choosing to do so in a way that could be considered to involve souring the community by their actions – actions that they may feel are warranted. Those who are strongly against recent changes have exhibited dismissive and occasionally mocking attitudes towards those who don’t share their opinions when they should – by all rights – be taking a higher moral ground. The forums aren’t just for feedback – they should be about building and maintaining a positive community as well, not simply to be used as a podium for people to voice their upset. I’m fine with that upset in itself, I just question the use of moderation and sensitivity towards those who would rather not see dozens of repetitions every day of the same topics by the same posters.

proxy.7963:

(One) problem is people thinking that their opinions and experiences should overwhelm those of others and that those whose opinions differ are, as a result, less valuable to discussion when in fact discussion and debate relies on them to be constructive and not pointless echo chambers.

This is what I am trying to say. I am not so spineless as to have people’s opinions of something COMPLETELY ruin something for me. As I said, D3 was incredibly hard to play well and still get satisfying rewards from. Guess what I did, I switched to another ARPG, one about a thousand times more rewarding, and less than half the price. I stopped playing that game because I started playing GW2. I’m still going to play GW2, but as Proxy said, the forums shouldn’t be a place of hostility, no matter how well reasoned. They should still promote positive and constructive feedback, but not threads that basically say “If you still like this game and aren’t outraged by sudden changes then you aren’t very aware of how badly you were scammed..” etc.

My post is selfish yes. I am selfishly asking people to tone down the harshness of their posts when it comes to expressing their concern. I am selfishly asking people that if they want to change the game for the better, for everyone, then to do so without bashing other players, the developers or the gaming community. I come here because I care about the game, and the Guild Wars gaming community, and I’ll say this as well: If I was a developer, the first thing I would do is read the forums for feedback, and I am positive ANET does this.

I also believe that if you do not receive a response from the developers, as quickly as you would like, it’s probably because they are still evaluating feedback and/or coming up with solutions! Not because they are ignoring you.

ANET is in touch with their gamer community. The fact they had an AMA on Reddit and will have another one! (after such a ‘horrid’ content release) means they have the courage to listen to you in REAL TIME expressing your concerns. I applaud them. I am looking forward to that discussion as well.

I suppose you will be as equally considerate of my wishes when I selfishly ask you to let those who share an opposing point of view than yours to have their voices heard without censorship. Not so much because of any game’s or forum concern, but because I believe that people have the right to voice their opinion when they feel they have been wronged so long as they do so in a respectful manner.

By and large, all of these post are meeting that standard of courtesy and professionalism. You should find comfort in the fact that those that are not are being met with deletions and infractions galore. If not for the heavy-handed moderation on these boards that you are evidently imploring, these forums would be a lot messier than now and you would be even more depressed that you appear to be now.

I don’t think the OP is against critic posts, rather than against the general put-down posts that have the sole purpose to make the game look bad. I personally ignore these as everyone is entitled to their opinion, but also agree that a newcomer will be influenced by this and get ‘swept’ away by the negativity.
Someone in the beginning was saying that the OP should simply get out of the forum but doesn’t someone who appreciates the game have more rights to be in the forum then someone who hates it??

Curlybaby.6258:

I suppose you will be as equally considerate of my wishes when I selfishly ask you to let those who share an opposing point of view than yours to have their voices heard without censorship. Not so much because of any game’s or forum concern, but because I believe that people have the right to voice their opinion when they feel they have been wronged so long as they do so in a respectful manner.

By and large, all of these post are meeting that standard of courtesy and professionalism. You should find comfort in the fact that those that are not are being met with deletions and infractions. If not for the heavy-handed moderation on these boards that you are evidently imploring, these forums would be a lot messier than now and you would be even more depressed that you appear to be now.

I do not mean to offend you. I am not asking for censorship of anyone, including myself, but simply that our posts should not entice hostility from the gamers, and should not offend the developers.

Also, I do acknowledge and am grateful for the freedom we have on these boards. I see no posts being deleted like on other games, which is awesome. And you’re right, the complaint posts here are not at the level of other game’s forums. I am just being cautious, and trying to promote more positive constructive threads.

Rannug.2731:

I don’t think the OP is against critic posts, rather than against the general put-down posts that have the sole purpose to make the game look bad. I personally ignore these as everyone is entitled to their opinion, but also agree that a newcomer will be influenced by this and get ‘swept’ away by the negativity.
Someone in the beginning was saying that the OP should simply get out of the forum but doesn’t someone who appreciates the game have more rights to be in the forum then someone who hates it??

Exactly.

Curlybaby.6258:

dendrite.2031:

I see no posts being deleted ….

I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.

As far as I know I’ve only seen closed threads, not deleted ones. If I am wrong, my apologies. If there are threads which I have missed (because I never read them, or were deleted before I had a chance to) then I only hope it was those threads that inspired hatred towards anyone or the game, and were doing more harm than positive feedback, and not ones that provided anything more than “put-downs.”

LordByron.8369:

This is the most selfish thread i ever read……..

We had our experience ruined, we use the forum as its meant to (see give feedback in quality and quantity)

But hey someone who have his particular visionof the game don t like negative feedback so lets all stop posting….

Try to do what you are asking us, pretend negative comments are all positive as you ask us to pretend all is like 1 week ago….

No they where not positive a week ago or a month ago its been non stop ppl jump from one thing to another and its not like they are making one post about it they go on and on if any thing its the ones who keep making the same thread over and over saying the same thing over and over who are the selfish ones because they seem to want the game to be bad as they think it is for them self and EVERYONE should feel the same way they do. So what they are doing IS making these forms a bad places to go to for any info or any reasonable talk about the game.

dendrite.2031:

Curlybaby.6258:

dendrite.2031:

I see no posts being deleted ….

I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.

As far as I know I’ve only seen closed threads, not deleted ones. If am wrong, my apologies.

No apology is necessary. But this is the main source of my disappointment. Personally, I had no issues with the game. I am not even an avid video game player. I am very casual and only play to have fun with my bf since he enjoys playing occassionaly (whenever I let him lol). But the heavy-handed use of infractions, censorship, deletion, and in some cases bans of forum posters simply because they are voicing their concerns over a very legit matter of which they feel deeply wronged is deplorable. This is what what has raised my ire. I find it despicable that a company would treat its long time loyal customers this way and I refuse to stand idly by and just let it happen. I’m feisty that way, what can I say laughs

Curlybaby.6258:

I suppose you will be as equally considerate of my wishes when I selfishly ask you to let those who share an opposing point of view than yours to have their voices heard without censorship. Not so much because of any game’s or forum concern, but because I believe that people have the right to voice their opinion when they feel they have been wronged so long as they do so in a respectful manner.

By and large, all of these post are meeting that standard of courtesy and professionalism. You should find comfort in the fact that those that are not are being met with deletions and infractions galore. If not for the heavy-handed moderation on these boards that you are evidently imploring, these forums would be a lot messier than now and you would be even more depressed that you appear to be now.

There’s a valuable difference between (self-)censorship and moderation. (Self-)censorship is the result of fear of reprisal from authorities and peers. Moderation is an avoidance of extremes. Granted that ‘extreme’ is rather subjective, I would rather people voice their opinions for or against the recent changes in a manner that was more constrained for the sake of those players who don’t want to get involved in the more heated discussions despite having input. If anything, it’s those players who are likely censoring themselves because of the general atmosphere that’s being created and a concern that their thoughts would result in derision and judgement from those with whom they’re supposed to be enjoying a game. Those who shout the loudest aren’t always the most correct, and they often drown out those with perfectly valid viewpoints themselves.

Many of us have said our pieces for or against the recent changes. Repetition does not make something more true.

Jski.6180:

LordByron.8369:

This is the most selfish thread i ever read……..

We had our experience ruined, we use the forum as its meant to (see give feedback in quality and quantity)

But hey someone who have his particular visionof the game don t like negative feedback so lets all stop posting….

Try to do what you are asking us, pretend negative comments are all positive as you ask us to pretend all is like 1 week ago….

No they where not positive a week ago or a month ago its been non stop ppl jump from one thing to another and its not like they are making one post about it they go on and on if any thing its the ones who keep making the same thread over and over saying the same thing over and over who are the selfish ones because they seem to want the game to be bad as they think it is for them self and EVERYONE should feel the same way they do. So what they are doing IS making these forms a bad places to go to for any info or any reasonable talk about the game.

Your experience of the game forums is completely different from mine. I admit up front, I did not visit the forums often, but when I did they were generally positive. Sure, you had occasional angry posts; what game doesn’t pull in a few angry people? What I’m saying is the overall tone was generally positive and constructive, supporting what the game was, noting things that needed to be fixed, but nothing even close to what it’s become since the patch. The difference is pretty dramatic; I doubt the moderators are missing it.

proxy.7963:

Many of us have said our pieces for or against the recent changes. Repetition does not make something more true.

The repetition is not to make anything more true. What you are witnessing is a PR event. The repetition exists because a meaningful response hasn’t been made. When this occurs, people feel they have not been heard, so they keep bringing up the issue as they believe that silence will equal acceptance, which it actually would. It’s pretty much a textbook business crisis. The steps to manage it are in the same book.

proxy.7963:

There’s a valuable difference between (self-)censorship and moderation. (Self-)censorship is the result of fear of reprisal from authorities and peers. Moderation is an avoidance of extremes. Granted that ‘extreme’ is rather subjective, I would rather people voice their opinions for or against the recent changes in a manner that was more constrained for the sake of those players who don’t want to get involved in the more heated discussions despite having input. If anything, it’s those players who are likely censoring themselves because of the general atmosphere that’s being created and a concern that their thoughts would result in derision and judgement from those with whom they’re supposed to be enjoying a game. Those who shout the loudest aren’t always the most correct, and they often drown out those with perfectly valid viewpoints themselves.

Many of us have said our pieces for or against the recent changes. Repetition does not make something more true.

The repetition would stop if the issue were to be addressed accordingly. But since it has not, the repetition continues. That’s just common sense.

When there is an exchange of a product for money, there is a responsibility based on ethics and morals, to address those concerns by the buyer regarding any purchase of product for which that consumer spent their hard earned dollars. Irrespective of any other alternative, the one alternative you do not cling to is one of “I got your money, now go away.” And If you adopt that alternative, then expect some push-back.

See where I am going with that?

I am guessing the OP has never watched commercial television otherwise they would be bankrupted after purchasing item after item that was spruiked to them.

On a more serious note, someone who is unable to avoid forums in which they claim they are incredibly swayed by commentary and who allows the opinions of others to utterly redefine their reality in terms of personal enjoyment of a game really should be seeking professional psychological help. Especially if they are demanding that those with differing opinions not be free to voice them for fear of ‘warping’ their view of reality.

Alice.8694:

A gear treadmill is a system where you must perpetually put in effort to maintain the same level of power as the content around you succumbs to power creep.

Ascended is not a treadmill, as it acts as a higher plateau, demonstrable by the fact that legendaries will be elevated to ascended strength. similar to how exotics were before ascended was introduced.

You can only rightfully claim that there is a treadmill if they add another degree of equipment stronger than ascended at some point in the future. With the express intent of drawing out item progression and forcing you to put perpetual effort into the game to maintain the plateau of power.

Well, you should read what Anet are saying. They didn’t say much, but they did say something.

You see, when they say that they won’t be bringing out a new tier of gear every 3 months (and this is in fact what they said), the implication is that there will be more tiers of gear, just not as quickly as every 3 months. It also implies frequency, so more than once in the future.

You may say that it doesn’t prove they will do it, but you cannot possibly maintain that Anet didn’t see this reaction coming. So if they would’ve wanted to maintain trust they could’ve simply said they were not bringing out another tier after this. Instead they said, as above, that it won’t have a high frequency as some other games.

I submit there is no way you can miss that they are planning more gear tiers.

Also they said that they would bring out more pieces of gear gradually to build it up slowly to a full set and that this infusion business would become mandatory to do future content.

So twist all you want but Anet clearly implied a gear treadmill. Infusion, which is not available for exotic gear will be a requirement for future content and there will be more tiers, just more slowly.

If that is not what they wanted to indicate, they are even more careless in their communication than I could imagine. No, I think they know exactly what they are saying.

And this is all indicative of a gear treadmill.

But it doesn’t end there. The FotM dungeon is not just a new idea. It in fact tops what is out there and I see it as the treadmill of treadmills. Where other games have maybe 2 or 3 difficulty levels, FotM is the dungeon with limitless levels. Eternal replayability…or boredom depending on your point of view.

I see it as a token of things that are to come, but it looks like GW2 will manage to make the gaming history books as the ultimate reverse psychology induced treadmill of all times.

Now the last bit is my opinion, but the comments Anet made are theirs and they leave little room for interpretation. They are ready to add more tiers and hope to convince enough casuals by doing it slowly, completely bypassing the point of why a lot of people are against this new direction. It’s not just about stepping away from a game for a few months and being so far behind that it’s no fun coming back, but also that the vertical style is not the TYPE of content people are after and why.

But to say there is no reason to see the current changes as the start of a gear treadmill just means you haven’t read the most recent comments of Anet themselves on this very website.

Raine.1394:

Jski.6180:

LordByron.8369:

This is the most selfish thread i ever read……..

We had our experience ruined, we use the forum as its meant to (see give feedback in quality and quantity)

But hey someone who have his particular visionof the game don t like negative feedback so lets all stop posting….

Try to do what you are asking us, pretend negative comments are all positive as you ask us to pretend all is like 1 week ago….

No they where not positive a week ago or a month ago its been non stop ppl jump from one thing to another and its not like they are making one post about it they go on and on if any thing its the ones who keep making the same thread over and over saying the same thing over and over who are the selfish ones because they seem to want the game to be bad as they think it is for them self and EVERYONE should feel the same way they do. So what they are doing IS making these forms a bad places to go to for any info or any reasonable talk about the game.

Your experience of the game forums is completely different from mine. I admit up front, I did not visit the forums often, but when I did they were generally positive. Sure, you had occasional angry posts; what game doesn’t pull in a few angry people? What I’m saying is the overall tone was generally positive and constructive, supporting what the game was, noting things that needed to be fixed, but nothing even close to what it’s become since the patch. The difference is pretty dramatic; I doubt the moderators are missing it.

The thing is the “angry posts” as you put them crate a lot of chatter so the thread are always on the top keeping it in view of ppl who do not like to see endless hate spam. I would find it odd if they did not know about bugs from reports etc.. i am not sure why it should be in the Guild Wars 2 Discussion most of this seems to fall into Game Bugs and Suggestions. At this point there is no Discussion going on here its just a random places where you put a view with out putting that much though into it no reading and no changing of views. If any thing ppl will only read what they want and hate on though who do not believe what they do with out making any good points.

Raine.1394:

The repetition is not to make anything more true. What you are witnessing is a PR event. The repetition exists because a meaningful response hasn’t been made. When this occurs, people feel they have not been heard, so they keep bringing up the issue as they believe that silence will equal acceptance, which it actually would. It’s pretty much a textbook business crisis. The steps to manage it are in the same book.

Curlybaby.6258:

The repetition would stop if the issue were to be addressed accordingly. But since it has not, the repetition continues. That’s just common sense.

When there is an exchange of a product for money, there is a responsibility based on ethics and morals, to address those concerns by the buyer regarding any purchase of product for which that consumer spent their hard earned dollars. Irrespective of any other alternative, the one alternative you do not cling to is one of “I got your money, now go away.” And If you adopt that alternative, then expect some push-back.

See where I am going with that?

How do you believe that repetition by players will make something easier to address by the representatives of ANet? What answers do you think they will be able to provide purely as a result of community pressure? At this point, if many players on the forums are to be believed, irreparable damage has been done. Customers have already left. And ANet is left with the nebulous task of addressing concerns that are largely subjective, based on fears that history will repeat itself or risking their reputation as developers even further by backing out on several implementations which, to investors, will likely have repercussions. This is not an easy fix. Replies may help the situation, it’s true, but the right sort of replies won’t come easily.

And while businesses naturally have expectations placed upon their products by those who purchase them, an MMO is both a product and a service. We bought the product as-is and received something that the majority of which we can play for as long as we like for as long as the servers remain online. The service, however, is completely undefined. None of us know what changes will be made to an MMO post-release, and we all acknowledge that risk when we buy the game, regardless of any ‘promises’ made. That some of us didn’t like the changes is unfortunate, but hardly surprising. In those circumstances, a person is well within their rights to explain their issues and request they be addressed. I’m not denying that at all, in mind of what I’ve said. But both sides have said their pieces – you’ve submitted your customer evaluations. I suggest we be patient to see whether or not we’ve won the vacation.

And while you both explain the reasoning behind your persistence, you don’t seem to acknowledge the feeling by other players, with concerns no less valid than your own, that your actions are making the forums hostile. Maybe they should have a thicker skin? Maybe they should just deal with it? Maybe they should take a break, or just not visit the forums? Are they crazy for taking this so seriously? The same questions can be applied to any of us with any grievances with the current state of things. We’re all a little crazy.

as much as i respect these posts, take a look at the world. its full of monkeys, much like this forum. they will kick and scream until someone brings them what they want on a silver platter

cegorach.5624:

I am guessing the OP has never watched commercial television otherwise they would be bankrupted after purchasing item after item that was spruiked to them.

On a more serious note, someone who is unable to avoid forums in which they claim they are incredibly swayed by commentary and who allows the opinions of others to utterly redefine their reality in terms of personal enjoyment of a game really should be seeking professional psychological help. Especially if they are demanding that those with differing opinions not be free to voice them for fear of ‘warping’ their view of reality.

You are absolutely correct, I do not watch commercial television, because it skews your reality, making you think what they show you, or try to sell to you, is worth living, experiencing or buying. They make you believe that their world, is how the world really is, when television is the farthest from the truth we could ever have.

And you are missing the point. You are in fact, part of that group who creates hostility. You have offended me, and you have insulted me directly, saying I need help. To this I quote:

I suggest we be patient to see whether or not we’ve won the vacation.

And while you both explain the reasoning behind your persistence, you don’t seem to acknowledge the feeling by other players, with concerns no less valid than your own, that your actions are making the forums hostile. Maybe they should have a thicker skin? Maybe they should just deal with it? Maybe they should take a break, or just not visit the forums? Are they crazy for taking this so seriously? The same questions can be applied to any of us with any grievances with the current state of things. We’re all a little crazy.