Guild Wars 2

As someone who mains thief, I can understand alot of the changes, especially to perma-stealth builds. However, I run one of those “perma-vigor dodge builds” that is being done away with, and sad as I am I suppose I can understand it. However I am a little concerned. My main role as a dodge roll thief is to tank. Can’t tank a thief? Exactly! You can with perma-vigor, you can get enough dodge rolls that as long as you time them correctly, you can tank a boss. I do enough damage solo, since I do caltrops on dodge and I’m running a full out condition spec (rampagers / carrion mix), but drop me in a teamfight and I’m nigh useless. I’m a tank. seriously. Even in dungeons my damage is halved with another D/D thief, or a shortbow ranger due to max stacks of bleeding. Basically, my point is: dodge roll builds sacrifice alot in order to be able to do them. I understand why you want to do away with them, but now thief will be without a “tanky” build. (In the argument of building stealth into the equation, that doesn’t work because you’re not tanking. you’re distracting. there’s a difference.) So basically, I’m ok with this, I’ve been wishing I had more options for my tanky thief, but could you make a way that it’s still possible? I’ve tried different sets (clerics, zerkers, carrion, rampagers, etc.) and this was the best “tank” I could find, and now it will be gone too. The idea of GW2 was to remove the conventional tank, healer, dps’er and make everyone a little bit of all of it. But any thief build I use (aside from this one) MELTS to anything. I die to just minions in CoE every time I run, with my tank build I live by about 2k health and have to shadow refuge immediately.

TL;DR: Is there going to be a new tanky thief, since dodge roll thief will be no more? Or is there a chance of keeping dodge roll thief, at a sacrifice to something instead?

Kay.3718:

At risk of being swamped in the mass of elaborate replies:

My main concern with these balance changes is that I don’t think there is enough thorough thought being put into them. I’ll pick one example, but there’s are many, so don’t get bogged down on just this one:

• Arms IV – Unsuspecting Foe. Moved to Master Tier.
• Arms VII – Crack Shot. Moved to Adept Tier.

This is one of the changes for warrior. Whoever came up with this at Arenanet, probably argued the following:

It’s too easy for flavour of the month stun-spam warriors to achieve 50% crit damage. bump up to master to make it harder for them to pick up, forcing more of a choice between damage and control.

That’s correct, no doubt about it. But what example Arenanet balance person X probably never realized, is that:

Moving this trait will unhinge a number of builds that rely on the synergy between this trait, the 20-point arms trait Opportunist, and for instance, leg specialist to maintain fury and guarantee 100% critical hit chance on Eviscerates after shieldbash.

To me, and likely others as well, a constructed synergy like that ^ is what making a great build is all about. A real work of art. And it just stopped being viable, because someone at Arenanet is unable or unwilling to look past the bend on these changes.

You could very simply preserve a synergy like that, by not moving Crack Shot, but moving Opportunist to the Adept tier. Your initial goal for the change will be intact, and you won’t have destroyed a number of builds in the process.

Intended or not, when you create a game that builds on synergies, you can’t just forget about those synergies because it’s more convenient when whipping up a quick rebalance. It’s taking the complexity and diversity out of the game.

So please, for the love of god, and for the good of the game, could you appoint or consult someone who plays GuildWars 2 before just putting these things on paper. Preferably someone with a decent grasp of the way different mechanics mesh together.

No offense or incitation intended. This is just something I feel passionately about. And I really really wish Arenanet would too.

I can understand your passion, but I don’t think you’re being particularly fair in your analysis. In short, just because you notice a synergy and appreciate its elegance doesn’t mean the synergy is balanced.

Taking your example, perhaps you should have to spend more than 30 trait points to guarantee an Eviscerate crit. I’ve seen how hard Eviscerate hits, and pressing something like 3, 4, F1 to do that much damage should be the focus of a build, not just 3/7ths of it. Instead of 0/20/0/10, you’ll just need to go 0/30/0/10. You lose something, yes. But have you stopped to think that maybe you should be losing something?

Personally, I think that’s a neat little synergy that I haven’t used myself, but there are still ways around it. Of course I’m sure it isn’t your only example, but when you find synergies that efficient that provide such good interaction at a cost of only 30 trait points with no real sacrifice, it’s probably time to stop and say “wait, should this be this easy?” I’ve often thought that my build was a little too clean, and now I’ll have to make a choice, and I think that’s a good thing.

There are strong arguments to be made about outlier builds that people run that hinge on these intensely powerful traits at low requirement levels. I get that it will be a bummer for those people, and I think they should be considered. However, it doesn’t affect the fact that traits like UF are quite strong and should probably be at a higher commitment level. If a bunker or support character relies on the 50% crit to do burst damage, there’s already something wrong with this sentence. Why is a bunker/support able to do burst? Because they want to 1v1 someone down? Why should they be able to put on that hat when they’re wearing another? That isn’t to say the support builds for Warriors couldn’t potentially use a bit of love, but is leaving damage potential in for these builds worth the ripple effect it has on other builds that are potentially dominating a meta?

Again, I respect the fact that you’re passionate about it, but sometimes passion can also cloud judgement.

To be honest this latest patch and the last patch for Necro is really disappointing. It feels like the Necro class is more of an after thought when the fixes are being proposed.

For example last patch you made it evident that we were getting some improvements to our life siphoning, in reality you juggled numbers around that much that we are no better and sometimes slightly worse off on our siphoning because it does not scale properly with healing power.

This patch feels more of the same you are removing 1 bleed from 2 skills and making changes to traits that are useless and after the changes will still remain useless but again we are ending up no better off and slightly worse off again.

I would like to know the thought process behind such changes as this is now 2 patches that feel as if you are changing stuff on Necro just for change sake in order to look like you are doing something with the class. It is also becoming more apparent that any suggestions by the Necro community is falling on deaf ears, for example Dhuumfire….. I can point to numerous threads in the Necro forum posted against this when it was planned being introduced and we knew what was going to happen and indeed it has happened.

So now because we got a skill we didn’t want we are getting punished in other area’s because of this. We have numerous outstanding issue’s with the class yet these issue’s are brushed over and disregarded with each patch. If you are not wanting to give us mobility then give us a way to be able to stay in the fight, fix our siphons so that it helps us last longer.

By your definition “we want the Necromancers to be focused on sustaining themselves through death shroud, siphoning health, and slowing down their opponent’s ability to act” but each patch does not match your own description.

We cannot sustain ourselves via DS as regen does not work whilst we are in this form, we can no longer use it to absorb large burst attacks as damage now feeds over onto our health as this was altered in a previous patch.

Siphoning is subpar and if you look at the numbers this is negated easily by one attack and therefore siphoning in its current form is terrible and at times worse than before the patch so again this has been nullified.

Next up slowing down your opponents ability to act, but now you’re extending the duration of Weakening Shroud’s mechanic that applies Weakness that in all intents and purposes will slow the opponents ability to act via fumble and wear them down by having heals being less effective. As you can see with each patch you release you do the opposite of what you vision us to be.

Ugh, good old shaving. Necro gets really tunneled into either dhumbfire or gtfo. By nerfing bleed build up with weakening shroud and MoB everything that doesn’t trait 30 spite, like some terror variants or the occasional hybrid, gets slaughtered.
If this goes on then Nec might have to settle with minion builds and they are as much fun as getting told “you’re too fat for sweets” on Halloween.
Plz just delete dhumbfire.

How come weapon skills don’t get looked at, its mostly traits?

This is my 6th attempt at this message, all the other ones got deleted in rage and sorrow
i could go on and write another 20 page essay about counters to thieves, vigor, fS and S. return. but it would end up the same way as the last ones.

So ill keep this short. dec 10 is the day the thief dies.
Stand still to win boys, stand still to win…

Hi Jon, and thanks for this sneak preview. I think it’s great that you guys are approaching class changes in this transparent fashion, while also seeking community input.

Bravo.

Question: Isn’t time you guys took a look at the Engineer trait “Empowering Adrenaline” … now here is a trait that virtually no one ever uses in any build I know of. The problem with it is the requirement that your endurance cannot be full in order to receive the small 5% damage increase. Perhaps if you simply left it as a flat 5% damage increase without the requirement of less than full endurance it would see more play? What’s more, with your recent decision to move Incendiary Power from Adept to Master (and yes, I agree that IC is properly a master level trait), a tiny change along the lines I have proposed might be in order given the extraordinary popularity of IC in a very great number of Engineer builds.

Thanks.

Highlie.7641:

This is my 6th attempt at this message, all the other ones got deleted in rage and sorrow
i could go on and write another 20 page essay about counters to thieves, vigor, fS and S. return. but it would end up the same way as the last ones.

So ill keep this short. dec 10 is the day the thief dies.
Stand still to win boys, stand still to win…

no. perma stealthers will need to learn to play. I appreciate these changes.

Pretty much agree with everything here. People are over-reacting that diamond skin is overpowered. For a grandmaster trait it’s honestly not that strong, cause let’s face it, how long can an elementalist stay above 90% health? It’s like 3 auto attacks from a pet and it’s gone.

The problem is that a lot of Condition builds don’t have a lot of burst damage, and rely on being able to apply conditions ASAP. Dealing 10% direct damage, even to an Ele, can be quite tricky with some Condition weapon sets, and greatly limits which attacks a condi can start with. Necro Scepter/Dagger, for example, has its best direct damage attack in one that deals damage based on the number of conditions you’ve applied, meaning it’s worthless against this trait, and a waste of a cooldown to use it.

Also, many Condi sets big attacks also deal conditions, meaning you’re wasting half the use of the attack by using it when those conditions won’t be applied. Add in that it will not always be easy to tell that this is necessary, and it presents HUGE hassles to anyone trying to run a condition build.

Imagine if there were a trait that made a character completely immune to direct damage until they had taken even just 2% condition damage first! Even just that tiny amount would have almost any Power build second guessing their every move, knowing that any alpha strikes they make might be worthless if the opponent has that trait functioning.

grate that lot of ppl are QQ on warriors
whats this then I got 3k+ armor and look dmg I get from one hit of thief its 25% of my hp
learn to use dodge roll and leave warriors alone!

Cogbyrn.7283:

Kay.3718:

At risk of being swamped in the mass of elaborate replies:

My main concern with these balance changes is that I don’t think there is enough thorough thought being put into them. I’ll pick one example, but there’s are many, so don’t get bogged down on just this one:

• Arms IV – Unsuspecting Foe. Moved to Master Tier.
• Arms VII – Crack Shot. Moved to Adept Tier.

This is one of the changes for warrior. Whoever came up with this at Arenanet, probably argued the following:

It’s too easy for flavour of the month stun-spam warriors to achieve 50% crit damage. bump up to master to make it harder for them to pick up, forcing more of a choice between damage and control.

That’s correct, no doubt about it. But what example Arenanet balance person X probably never realized, is that:

Moving this trait will unhinge a number of builds that rely on the synergy between this trait, the 20-point arms trait Opportunist, and for instance, leg specialist to maintain fury and guarantee 100% critical hit chance on Eviscerates after shieldbash.

To me, and likely others as well, a constructed synergy like that ^ is what making a great build is all about. A real work of art. And it just stopped being viable, because someone at Arenanet is unable or unwilling to look past the bend on these changes.

You could very simply preserve a synergy like that, by not moving Crack Shot, but moving Opportunist to the Adept tier. Your initial goal for the change will be intact, and you won’t have destroyed a number of builds in the process.

Intended or not, when you create a game that builds on synergies, you can’t just forget about those synergies because it’s more convenient when whipping up a quick rebalance. It’s taking the complexity and diversity out of the game.

So please, for the love of god, and for the good of the game, could you appoint or consult someone who plays GuildWars 2 before just putting these things on paper. Preferably someone with a decent grasp of the way different mechanics mesh together.

No offense or incitation intended. This is just something I feel passionately about. And I really really wish Arenanet would too.

I can understand your passion, but I don’t think you’re being particularly fair in your analysis. In short, just because you notice a synergy and appreciate its elegance doesn’t mean the synergy is balanced.

Taking your example, perhaps you should have to spend more than 30 trait points to guarantee an Eviscerate crit. I’ve seen how hard Eviscerate hits, and pressing something like 3, 4, F1 to do that much damage should be the focus of a build, not just 3/7ths of it. Instead of 0/20/0/10, you’ll just need to go 0/30/0/10. You lose something, yes. But have you stopped to think that maybe you should be losing something?

Personally, I think that’s a neat little synergy that I haven’t used myself, but there are still ways around it. Of course I’m sure it isn’t your only example, but when you find synergies that efficient that provide such good interaction at a cost of only 30 trait points with no real sacrifice, it’s probably time to stop and say “wait, should this be this easy?” I’ve often thought that my build was a little too clean, and now I’ll have to make a choice, and I think that’s a good thing.

There are strong arguments to be made about outlier builds that people run that hinge on these intensely powerful traits at low requirement levels. I get that it will be a bummer for those people, and I think they should be considered. However, it doesn’t affect the fact that traits like UF are quite strong and should probably be at a higher commitment level. If a bunker or support character relies on the 50% crit to do burst damage, there’s already something wrong with this sentence. Why is a bunker/support able to do burst? Because they want to 1v1 someone down? Why should they be able to put on that hat when they’re wearing another? That isn’t to say the support builds for Warriors couldn’t potentially use a bit of love, but is leaving damage potential in for these builds worth the ripple effect it has on other builds that are potentially dominating a meta?

Again, I respect the fact that you’re passionate about it, but sometimes passion can also cloud judgement.

Because most of the traits / skills are designed around bursting with a hammer. if you don’t want control linked to damage then don’t have so many increase damage on stunned opponents / increase crit rate to stunned opponents.

Devs, I think the whole community agrees on changing dhuum.

Leave the bleeds alone and give us a trait similar to dhuum that will be another source of torment. Dhuum was over the top and nonsensical thematically. Nobody wanted it. And now you’re messing with all these abilities instead of changing just one trait.

Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second.

Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.

Please dont change this ^^

You guys are making me quit.

Engineer:

“Why I do believe we will get a Build reduction, a Damage decrease and a Survivability Decrease on different Parts of the Game with that Balance Changes for Engineer”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/December-10th-Balance-update/page/2#post3138971

Engineer:

• Napalm Specialist. Burns you apply last 33% longer.
  - I do not know of anyone who uses this, or why they would. I play an engineer as my main character. I use a flamethrower and rocket boots to apply constant burning but I have no desire, or need, to use this. If this trait increased the duration and increased damage to burning foes by say 10%, it would be worthwhile. If it increased the duration and condition damage, it would be worthwhile. This trait needs something additional to justify the grandmaster slot.

• Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds.
  - I think the proposed change is too powerful with a 15 second ICD. A ICD of 30 seconds puts it in line with similar traits. The Warrior’s Shrug It Off has an ICD of 30s. The Thief’s Pain Response has an ICD of 30. Both of those traits are very similar but have a conditional trigger.

Thief:

• Signet Use : Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
  - Thieves use deception skills to stealth themselves and gain initiative. The current state of Signet Use puts it on par with Infusion of Shadow in regard to initiative gain. To gain the two initiative, they must sacrifice the bonus the signet gives. There are few, if any, thieves that use mostly signets. I disapprove of this proposed change, it will harm your effort to promote build diversity.

• Critical Strikes 15, Opportunist : Critical hits have a 30% chance to restore 1 Initiative, ICD : 1 second.
  - I believe a lot of thieves consider this trait mandatory. I recommend changing it to a 100% chance on critical to restore 2 initiative every 10 seconds. Without some change, all thieves will consider this trait a necessity. With the coming change of 1 initiative regeneration per second, this may be a good time to revise this trait. No other class has a trait that reduces cooldown times for skills on a critical hit; this trait is unbalanced in that regard.

JonPeters.5630:

Diamond Skin

Actually, I think a major concern regarding this ability stems from its possible use in a scepter fresh air burst build as an anti-condi counter. In a 0/30/30/10/0 build (fresh air, diamond skin, vital striking, scholar runes, zerker amulet), you could theoretically keep from range and deal very high damage while making it difficult for necros, engis, and other condi builds from returning fire with their own poke damage, giving you the upper hand over them in choosing if or when to close range to burst your target of choice. In general, the PvP community doesn’t like these full immunity skills/traits, and is looking for traits with more counterplay to them rather than these 100% counters that lead more to Build Wars than interesting gameplay situations.

JonPeters.5630:

Aquamancer’s Alacrity
Cleansing Wave

I think the biggest issue with these two changes is that it leaves very little that is appealing at the Adept tier in Water. I do like the idea you propose, leaving Cleasing Wave at Adept and redesigning the Master tier trait.

JonPeters.5630:

Soothing Disruption vs Cantrip Mastery

I love the change you just proposed.

JonPeters.5630:

Arcana

Yes, you could do that. I could even see giving Renewing Stamina the Engi treatment and increasing the icd to 10 seconds. Either way, moving the two best Adept Arcana traits up to Master is a bit too harsh IMO.

On the screen the changes look OK, but only time will tell, but they look OK

Would like a change to the “Finish Them!” as in blocking skills would still be effective if the player is stealthed, or not being able to finish whilst in stealth

PVE NECRO REACTION

LOVE the way you brought this to the community for our feedback. Huge kudos to the ANet team!

It seems like most of these balance patches are PvP oriented. I know that balance is a crucial factor there, but for a PvE player, I’m just baffled by some of the changes that happen in these patches. It’s actually no big deal most of the time, but it does concern me a little that PvE just doesn’t seem to get the same consideration as PvP in balance patches. Are these patches coming from the PvP dev team? Is that how it works?

Here’s my general reaction from a PvE PoV:

JonPeters.5630:

Necromancer:

• Mark of Blood. Removed 1 bleed in PvP only.

Don’t care.

JonPeters.5630:

• Signet of Spite: Removed one bleed.

Meh. Kind of sucks to lose that stack of Bleeding, but it’s understandable. SoS is best utility skill Necros have, even after this change. I can live with it.

JonPeters.5630:

• Spite 15 – Death into Life. Increased conversion from 5% to 7%

Here’s a buff I probably won’t notice ever.

JonPeters.5630:

• Spite X – Chill of Death. Increased trigger threshold from 25% to 50%.

Lolwut? Consider the other 3 Master Traits here: Spiteful Marks, Axe Training, and Training of the Master. I have a choice between +Mark Damage, +Axe Damage, +Minion Damage, and … this. Why would I ever choose this trait over one of the other three? Chill is an awesome Condi for Necros, but this Trait fails to make good use of it in any meaningful way. Maybe swap Chill of Death out for Spiteful Talismans? Unless you really just want to encourage the Axe/Focus build. Spiteful Talismans really is a Master Level Trait, and Chill of Death might see some use as an Adept level Trait.

JonPeters.5630:

• Curses IV – Weakening Shroud. Increase recharge from 15 to 25.

Trait recharge now matches Skill recharge. That’s probably a good call.

JonPeters.5630:

• Curses VIII – Banshee’s Wail. Increase cooldown reduction from 15% to 20%.

Whatever. You still won’t catch my Necro running with a Warhorn.

JonPeters.5630:

• Death 5 – Reanimator. Decreased cooldown from 30s to 15s.

Eh. Really? Unless you are running a Minion build, these guys aren’t very useful. AND there are a ton of situations where I don’t want any minions at all. These compulsory minions are a pain in the kitten , and I want the Trait to go away, not get buffed. Swap Reanimator out with Spiteful Vigor or Ritual of Protection so that I can choose whether or not I want these little turds spawning all over the place.

JonPeters.5630:

• Death VIII – Reaper’s Protection. Decreased the cooldown from 90s to 60s.

This is literally the same situation as the Chill of Death Trait from Spite tree. Here, I can choose between Mark Buff, Death Shroud Buff, Minion Buff, and … this. It’s just a lousy Trait compared with the other 3. Adjust it all you want, I’ll still never use it.

JonPeters.5630:

• Death 25 – Deadly Strength. Increased conversion from 5% to 10%.

That’s kinda cool. Might be worth reworking my build to fit that in. I like that it’s a more attractive option, even if I don’t end up taking advantage of it.

JonPeters.5630:

• Blood Magic 25 – Blood to Power. Decreased health threshold from 90% to 75%. Increase Power from 90 to 120.

I abandoned Blood Magic when I switched to Staff Build. This little buff is nice, but it’s not enough to influence my build design.

JonPeters.5630:

• Soul Reaping II. Vital Persistence. Increased reduction of life force drain from 25% to 50%.

Okay now that is cool. Although it does nothing to mitigate loss from damage, it makes Shroud builds much more attractive. A Minion/Shroud build could benefit greatly.

JonPeters.5630:

• Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second.

Nice, been arguing for this for a long time

• Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.

Sounds like it’ll kill sword – please test this thoroughly before going live.

• Pistol Whip. Reduced the after cast on the first half of this skill by .25 seconds.

Sounds like a bandaid that will leave PW marginally useful, as it was before. Please considered a re-design.

• Deadly Arts VI – Sundering Strikes. Increased the trigger chance from 50%. Remove ICD. Decrease Vulnerability duration to 6s.

Nice – a well designed trait in a line that needed more well designed traits

• Critical Strikes VI – Practiced Tolerance. Increased conversion from 5% to 7%.

Sounds minor, but a buff is a buff.

• Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.

Sounds boring, and underpowered for a 15 point minor trait. Please add something that helps define the spec, rather than .2 init per second for high crit specs. Consider also stripping 1 boon.

• Critical Strikes VIII – Signet Use. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.

Fair considering new base init regen, secondary effect makes it worth it to slot.

• Critical Strike X – Critical Haste. Increase trigger chance to 25%.

Sounds good, will have to test.

• Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

Finally – permastealth has always felt against the design of stealth in general, glad to see it

• Acrobatics III – Vigorous Recovery. Reduced Vigor duration to 4s from 8s.

This doesn’t sound like “Shaving” to me – 50% is alot to start off with. Why not try 25% and see how that pans out.

• Acrobatics IV – Assassin’s Retreat. Increased swiftness duration to 20s.

Still not getting slotted in PvP – maybe WvW? I Don’t know.

• Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.

Absolutely pointless to slot now – please add something else (cure 1 condition on dodge, 5s ICD?)

• Acrobatics X – Assassins Reward. Increased healing scaling by 35%. Moved to Grandmaster Tier.

Sounds awesome – the one change I am most excited to test

• Acrobatics XI – Hard to catch. Moved to Master Tier.

Still never getting slotted due to poor design

• Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.

Now an underwhelming 15 point minor trait – please consider adding something else to it (transfers X conditions from you to your target on steal?)

• Trickery IV – Flanking Strikes. Move to Master tier.

No one is taking this for 5% more damage With a positional requirement

• Trickery VII – Bountiful Theft. Reduced vigor duration to from 15s to 8s.

Again, 50% does not sound like “Shaving” to me – consider a 33% reduction here.

• Trickery VIII – Trickster. Move to Adept tier.

I can’t see taking this over Thrill of the crime, Uncatchable, or even Long Range.

This cast time on infiltrator strike return is basically the last straw for me as a thief , I’m retiring the class for sure if that change does indeed go through , I see no point in dedicating as much time as I have to a class that is just going to be left with no viable build overtime ( nerfed hard every patch).

I’m not one of those thieves that would stealth forever and wait to prey on people with low health, I go as deep into a fight as my warrior guld mates would and since I can’t possibly tank hits like they do ( as we are a squishy class ) I’ll let you guess what skill allowed me to not just melt when I got CC’ed , feared or immobilized right away…..that’s right an infiltrator return without a cast time.

At least if you’re going to nerf us hard with each and every patch give us something worthwhile back, for example you nerf evade here you give thieves access to protection buffs such as aegis or increase the base toughness or health of the class.

Anyways you truly ought to reconsider these changes because you’re effectively destroying any enjoyment there is to be had with this class by nerfing it to the ground.

JonPeters.5630:

Summation of high risk concerns for elementalist. Not ignoring other professions, I just have time for one right now.

Diamond Skin
We really love this trait as it opens up some very powerful potential in the earth line to run a defensive elementalist without relying on healing power. The strength of this build is going to be the ability to quickly string small heals together to maintain that condition resistance. I think it could see use in both high damage builds looking to avoid weakness and blind, as well as in defensive builds looking to tank condition heavy classes and condition heavy mobs. I think the big question here is the base health/armor of the elementalist. Of course if you are just an elementalist you just want us to raise these, but balance must work around some fixed things and profession health and armor are an important part of defining what a profession is so that we can create powerful tools that players can actively use to circumvent these weaknesses. In this case if this trait is not powerful enough to be a grandmaster, I believe the right answer is going to be to lower the threshold, not to increase elementalist base health.

Aquamancer’s Alacrity
We moved this trait because all profession cooldown traits are in master tier, and because that is a good investment for this type of improvement. That being said, they may all not be powerful enough to warrant a master level triat right now, but I would rather increase the cooldown to 25% to get people to consider them than to have them be adept tier and allow elementalists to run all four of them.

Cleansing Wave
This is the one I am most on the fence about of all of the elementalist changes. It is a borderline master level trait and I think a better solution would be to leave it at adept tier and instead of moving Soothing Wave (which is only moving because it is better to have a 100% worthless trait at adept tier rather than master tier) we would redesign Soothing Wave into something worthy of master level.

Arcane Abatement
This is moving to adept tier because all of the fall damage traits are in that tier and in our opinion it doesn’t feel good to have to spend 20 points in a line for this kind of trait. Alacrity was the first choice to swap with it here because of the reasons stated above.

Soothing Disruption vs Cantrip Mastery
This one was debated internally for a while as well. I think swapping these traits would also help build diversity as it would let you splash 10 points in water to get Cantrip recharge, but would make you really consider going into water magic for the Regen and Vigor which is much more flavorful. I would love to hear some elementalist thoughts on that potential change.

Last but definitely not least.

Arcana
I see the logic in not wanting the two changes in this line to counter each other. Moving good adept traits to master level is contrary to reducing the need to spec into this line. That being said, Elemental Attunement is just a beast of a trait and could honestly be compared with most grandmaster traits. I think a good compromise would be to place Renewing Stamina back in the adept tier, placing is where the other professions get this type of trait, and instead move Final Shielding to the master tier where it could live alongside Arcane Retribution as two good choices in arcane builds that take Arcane Mastery in the adept tier. That could leave some interesting builds such as: 0/30/30/0/10 for fresh air, diamond skin, and renewing stamina. It also still leaves builds that put only 10 points in Arcana a chance to gain Protection by going 30 air for Tempest Defense, and 10 Earth for Elemental Shielding and still have 30 points leftover.

I still believe there is work to be done at the grandmaster tier in Fire at the very minimum and that Air and Water are the only truly good grandmaster choice right now. There are also still a handful of just terrible traits that will still get looked at, but we felt like we were already bordering on changing too much.

I hope this helps to steer the discussion for the elementalist changes here. I’ll post this on the elementalist sub-forum as well. Hoping to get to each profession one at a time.

Thanks,

Jon

Link to the elementalist sub-forum discussion
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/December-10th-Elementalist-changes/page/3#post3138306

Thank you for addressing our concerns
i support the changes mentioned in this post

JonPeters.5630:

Necromancer:
The necromancer’s mobility will remain where it is currently, as we want the Necromancers to be focused on sustaining themselves through death shroud, siphoning health, and slowing down their opponent’s ability to act.

A thing that the Devs never seem to acknowledge is that:

1. there are parts of the game where mobility is king. In WvW being left behind a train and having to roam with a mobility just slightly better than this of a trebuchet isn’t fun.
   Is there a way to give necro some mobility without killing its flavour and breaking the balance?
2. Power builds unmentioned, even though they’ve been the underdog since the release. Is the necromancer supposed to be a condition class that has some strong but limited power capabilities? If so, is there anything in the works that would make them on par with professions like warriors/guardians/mesmers in PvE? What is the necro supposed to do in dungeons with the other professions offering much much more? How are latest updates addressing those issues?
3. Is the condi vs objects things discussed internally? Just another thing that requires attention…

Overall, I like the communication and the effort you guys are putting. I would just prefer to see more of a general acknowledgement of current issues of different professions in various game types.

Arcane VI – Renewing Stamina. Moved to Master tier.

Definitely belongs in the Adept tier like where similar traits are in other classes. It is essential to a lot of PvE solos, something I’m really starting to enjoy I would hate to have to stick to my guard and warr for such shenanigans.

TheThiefMaster.3812:

This cast time on infiltrator strike return is basically the last straw for me as a thief , I’m retiring the class for sure if that change does indeed go through , I see no point in dedicating as much time as I have to a class that is just going to be left with no viable build overtime ( nerfed hard every patch).

I’m not one of those thieves that would stealth forever and wait to prey on people with low health, I go as deep into a fight as my warrior guld mates would and since I can’t possibly tank hits like they do ( as we are a squishy class ) I’ll let you guess what skill allowed me to not just melt when I got CC’ed , feared or immobilized right away…..that’s right an infiltrator return without a cast time.

At least if you’re going to nerf us hard with each and every patch give us something worthwhile back, for example you nerf evade here you give thieves access to protection buffs such as aegis or increase the base toughness or health of the class.

Anyways you truly ought to reconsider these changes because you’re effectively destroying any enjoyment there is to be had with this class by nerfing it to the ground.

Hmm. well, this patch is good for the game because it reduces the easymode perma stealth scrub build simplicity. If you truly were a thief master this patch wouldnt bother you.

as far as i see it, thieves got pushed out from the safety of their stealth and the ability to dodge more often via vigor and some ablilities that grant you stamina, as well as the casting time on swords 2 skill.

we got some nice movement speed buff,quickness trait, improved base ini regen,and a improvement to heal on ini consumption.

add “medium” armor and hp pool to all that and i rely hope the new buffs will be enough to keep thieves strong enough in both pvp/wvw and pve.

Rangers on the right track but having the shortbow on a 900 m cap is really punishing this weapon as well as its lack of punch either in both its base damage or upping conditions. One of which should be improved considerably. Traps skills should be moved from Skirmishing altogether. Traps use conditions, why should we trait into precision for a trap where it would be of much better use in marksmanship or Wilderness survival . At the moment its traiting into a line that’s not getting the full benefits of its chosen damage ( conditions). Is there any chance of re-jigging this in the next patch so it would make more build diversity ( not only for traps but other builds too). I am sure power and precision would go far better paired hand in hand to what the traits sit at now. .
P.S – Short sword route on skill 1 ( bad scene) , this needs obliterated as it is more of a hindrance and not free flowing as other classes attacks on melee weapons as it basically immobilises you to the spot and are a sitting target. .This really should be sorted too.

BlackDevil.9268:

Great changes!

Though 1 thing I would hope to see changed is:
Mesmer
‘’ Domination XII – Confounding Suggestions. Changed to increase daze duration by 25%. ’’

I’d love to see this trait totally different, which is:
‘’ Domination XII – Confounding Suggestions. This trait has a new effect. Makes Mantra of Distraction area of effect with a radius of 300 around the selected target. Dazes up to 5 targets. ’’

The reason I would think this is good, is because mesmer is lacking WvW builds, especially on bigger scale such as raids up to 30man.
Even though mesmer got a lot support, they’re still mainly chosen to be veilbots. While as I would love to see mesmer becoming a much more useful class. Giving the ability to ‘’aoe interrupt’’, will help this concept a lot.

Wow, this is comming from a Redguard player? I don’t think you know the class very well. While I do agree with your suggestion, GS 5, focus 4, F3, staff 5, and you can be traited for more, are all inturrupts. There are a lot of good mesmer builds for WvW. If you feel that you’re a veil bot, it may be because Red Guard runs a very tight ship and that’s all they want their mesmers to do. My last mesmer build: 3600 attack, 2K toughness, 20K health, 44% CC, 42% CD, aoe healing, aoe stability, aoe cleanses, null field, time warp.

Thief adding cast time onto 2nd sword skill I can’t see being good at all. It is true that with this skill, we can easily deal with stun, etc. You have to remember that the sword, dmg wise is not comparable to the dmg done with daggers or something. So people who opt to use a sword are probably leaning towards survivability of the class. Without this skill, what point is there to using a sword? We get stunned, someone nearby just uses any normal AoE, without even meaning to hit us, and we die. Other classes can get stunned, get caught in a minor hit from the AoE and will survive.

username.4932:

Disapointing to see Anet asking feedback and doing the exact opposite of the community feedback, they are just spitting in our face.

How the hell do you think gardian community asked for more DPS (everyone asks supports and heal buff) ?

How the hell can’t you read the reports everywhere about healing power stuff being useless and people willing to use it for something really useful ?

What’s the point asking user feedback if you don’t read it ?

Just fyi, these aren’t set in stone. Its just what they’ve come up with and even if it WAS set in stone, its months ahead and hopefully subject to change.

That being said, the ranger changes look neat and appropriate, and warrior changes don’t really impact too much, idk if the hammer dps reduction is needed but then again, I don’t use it for dps to begin with. The proposed thief changes bug the kitten out of me though. I see no good in making initiative gain mostly regen based, it should lay in the hands of the build and be managed as such. Its fine to change the 2 initiative upon ENTERING stealth, but don’t nerf all the other sources. Its called resource management and thief is the only class that really has to worry about it. Nerfing their control on that is a big smack in the face.

As other people have said, big nerfs imo to current staff (water traits) and DD (arcane traits)…. then adding a gimmicky earth trait that doesn’t seem fun to play (as or against) regardless if it becomes OP or not.

Ele does NOT need major buffs or nerfs atm, but if anything consider undoing the 40s rtl if it misses and possibly lower icd in spvp of cleansing water from 5 to 2 (for water field at least?) , but definitely do not want some new over the top trait.

I think internal testing (of DS) is only looking at 1v1 fighting on a point diamond skin may be balanced then???
But in a team fight if ele is not being focused an ele will be able to just walk threw all condi based aoes ( traps / fire / smoke / fear walls / marks) as if they are not even there, it will also make it hard to catch for classes that rely on chill/snares. That’s not good game play.

Why not make it something like 33% chance to proc torment if hit while in earth…. then you could have a …… condi ele! GASP! that would be interesting and add build diversity IMO.

About Rangers in wvw….. one thing I hate about ranger is pet always dies you can use bear in passive standing right next to you once aoes start flying it will be dead in 5s.

If there was a talent somewhere that reduced the amount of damage you pet takes by say 50%? while in passive/ not attacking (loses the buff once it attacks something). Then you can have your pet live reasonably long enough so you can make use of traits and utilities……protect me, fern hound, bear cleanse, some signets etc.

Also longbow would be an amazing tool in WvW if you could move while barraging to help snare a zerg while not being left behind your self -.-

also Mesmer clones that are already “shattered” could go off where they are killed by AoE from ac/whatever.

Pretty much wvw changes that would be really nice (using f1-f4 yes plz !) with out effecting spvp 1v1 etc.

As i main Engi and i have done since the beta of beta’s this Speedy Kits change is going to affect me mentally as my muscle memory instinctively uses the kit buttons.
I honestly do not think this is a good change and Tools: VI – Speedy Kits, should not be changed in this manner as it will affect multiple builds and the way the Engineer fights in a complete whole.
That is all, I hope Speedy Kits will remain unchanged.
Sincerely Trebuchette.

Kensei.1495:

Nix.3152:

heal signet!! zerker stance!! no nefrs?? ………….. but ye nerf engi’s vigor – gg ((

Even though it’s somethingthat bothers me a lot, i think it was necessary. No one should be able to gain a boon like vigor w/o a cooldown.

if you read you’d notice that thief got nothin but nerfs and engi got some Real Good buffs

bunker and support engis gonna party witht he 50% healing on bombs and 5% hp heal every 3s on turrets HALLELUJAH

Sanduskel.1850:

TheThiefMaster.3812:

This cast time on infiltrator strike return is basically the last straw for me as a thief , I’m retiring the class for sure if that change does indeed go through , I see no point in dedicating as much time as I have to a class that is just going to be left with no viable build overtime ( nerfed hard every patch).

I’m not one of those thieves that would stealth forever and wait to prey on people with low health, I go as deep into a fight as my warrior guld mates would and since I can’t possibly tank hits like they do ( as we are a squishy class ) I’ll let you guess what skill allowed me to not just melt when I got CC’ed , feared or immobilized right away…..that’s right an infiltrator return without a cast time.

At least if you’re going to nerf us hard with each and every patch give us something worthwhile back, for example you nerf evade here you give thieves access to protection buffs such as aegis or increase the base toughness or health of the class.

Anyways you truly ought to reconsider these changes because you’re effectively destroying any enjoyment there is to be had with this class by nerfing it to the ground.

Hmm. well, this patch is good for the game because it reduces the easymode perma stealth scrub build simplicity. If you truly were a thief master this patch wouldnt bother you.

The nerf to perma stealth is warranted , it actually should have been nerfed a long time ago as dropping a black powder and heart seeking through it 3 times to get 9 secs of stealth whenever you feel like it is broken.

I you actually read my post though you’d see that my issue was never with that, it’s the the cast time on the shadow return on sword I have issues with it destroys any survability thieves that don’t rely on stealth that much such as myself have.

Thieves Are slowly but surely on their way to becoming a mediocre class " balanced" patch after " balanced patch" while other classes get shown a lot of love and get nice buffs, even masters have their limit :-) can’t expect a man that brings a knife to a gun fight to do well.

Well, no offence but nerfing engineer was utterly stupid move considering nobody uses them in competitive play AT ALL. And you only keep nerfing engi, it’s like ????????????????????? at first, and then you realize that stupid changes come only from stupid people. no offence ofcourse but it’s just truth.

Again, no offence, just an opinion from a person that understands logic pretty well, that’s all.

Idea for Thief’s Hard to catch rework: Instead of random teleport and swiftness make it stun breaker and refill your endurance.

It is still “Hard to catch” but now it is actually useful.

Jon,

Symbol of Swiftness

• In WvW the symbol has the risk of putting the player in combat and causing a self-snare, which for a swiftness is terrible. For this reason I’ve already switched to +25% speed runes and use the symbol as a nuke / heal.

• What is Symbol of Swiftness really supposed to DO? 4s swiftness on a symbol… perhaps you should change the boon to vigor at that point to help allies dodge.

• You could put swiftness onto Line or Warding for group swiftness as there’s no risk of the guardian entering combat (mobs running into the symbol… “combat mode” self-snare… happens ALL the time)

Wilderness 5 Natural Vigor

• In WvW this is my only “vigor” besides Lightning Reflexes, which I’m obviously going to hold back for the stun break / evasive roll. The ranger can’t generate vigor-on-crit or endurance-on-burst, making Natural Vigor core to the ranger’s evasion with every weapon set.

• If the ranger is generating too much evasion, perhaps the problem lies elsewhere.

dragonkain.3984:

Well, no offence but nerfing engineer was utterly stupid move considering nobody uses them in competitive play AT ALL. And you only keep nerfing engi, it’s like ????????????????????? at first, and then you realize that stupid changes come only from stupid people. no offence ofcourse but it’s just truth.

i dont see any ultra omg super severe nerf everyone claims other than the 5s vigor uptime loss on perma runners .

other than that we got HUGE buffs and Much needed ones might i add

So I’m to assume this next month or two goes toward “fixing” Ele? Will Rangers get their turn sometime in 2016? As it stands we are still seeing major bugs that have existed since launch, and the class has only seen nerfs to it because you “balanced” the class in all aspects of the game off of TPvP.
So because of balancing around X(TPvP) the WHOLE PROFESSION felt it in Y(PvX) and became generally unuseable in WvW, and became unwanted in most other game forms.
I’ve posted before on Ranger Forums, and I’ve sent multiple bug reports and still no action on those has been seen. The class needs fixing, as it’s the laughing stock of players in WvW and it only has a gimmicky build for TPvP. You are in fact not “fixing” or “Opening up new build options” when we still have to trait 30 just to have condition removal(I am not even sure it should be called this as conditions would have killed you before it proced). You want to open build options?

• Give us more options for a condition removal so I don’t have to trait for it, wasting half of my trait points.
• Fix our LB. If a Dev says its not viable or how the class should be played when the main site says we are “Master Archers” then there is an issue with class design at some point.
• Fix Pets If our weapons have lowered DPS because we have pets to do DPS then maybe our pets should be able to reliably hit a target. During the Ranger PvE stream IC circled our f1-f4 for pet survivability and talked about pet management which I find funny as all of these are buggy. F1, and F3 rely on pet buggy pathing. F2 just seems to activate after 5 seconds of you actually hitting F2.
• Our Utilities, much like a Thief we are really selfish and dont being anything to a team other than Spirits, similar to a Thief having venoms. As it stands currently, we bring nothing to a team effort like zerging that benefits the game as a whole.

If some of these changes ever reached the light of day, maybe, just maybe we would actually be able to play WvW. If you want to advertise a game where you can play the class your way, make sure the statement is true. As right now I have to play the game according to how I can best survive X situation, and even then I am only surviving and not helping anyone other than myself.

Regards, Shinra

Drekavac.4920:

grate that lot of ppl are QQ on warriors
whats this then I got 3k+ armor and look dmg I get from one hit of thief its 25% of my hp
learn to use dodge roll and leave warriors alone!

way too much to ask for. hammer dmg has been the same since launch(yes I used hammer since launch) but now all of a sudden its too much? Changing uf is fine but the direct nerf to hammer WILL kill off the other hammer builds which doesn’t make sense since last patch anet buffed shouts(hammer shouts anyone). But as long as the casual don’t want to dodge anything they need to baby proof it.

dragonkain.3984:

Well, no offence but nerfing engineer was utterly stupid move considering nobody uses them in competitive play AT ALL. And you only keep nerfing engi, it’s like ????????????????????? at first, and then you realize that stupid changes come only from stupid people. no offence ofcourse but it’s just truth.

Again, no offence, just an opinion from a person that understands logic pretty well, that’s all.

Are you sure? Because in tpvp or spvp I see a engi all the time. They aren’t weak in the mists.

Thief IS weak in the mists, and deserves reworks not nerfs. PLEASE STOP NERFING thieves. We need adjustments not total and utterly game changing wack a mole methods until the lower half of the community stops crying about class X. Changes, not nerfs. I see no suitable compensation for the thief nerfs that are proposed, none at all.

JonPeters.5630:

Guardian:
Tanky and supportive guardians are in a strong position in many gametypes. We do feel that damage guardians are not as powerful as they could be. While we don’t want guardians to be as strong offensively as some of the other classes (given their powerful defensive abilities) we opened up more offensive guardian builds.

• Zeal V – Shattered Aegis. Damage instead of Burning.
• Zeal VII – Zealous Blade. This trait now scales with Healing power (2%.)
• Zeal XII – Kindled Zeal. Increased conversion from 10% to 13%.
• Radiance V – Searing Flames. Reduced cooldown from 20s to 10s.
• Radiance X – Powerful blades. Increased damage from 5% to 10%.
• Valor V – Retributive Armor. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 7%.
• Honor VI – Pure of Heart. Increased scaling with Healing power from 25% to 40%.
• Virtues VIII – Supreme Justice. Number of attacks going from 4 to 3.
• Symbol of Swiftness: This skill now applies 4 seconds of swiftness per pulse, rather than 8 seconds if you have no swiftness and 1 second if you have swiftness.

Most of these changes are pretty solid. However there are still major problems with the weapons and other traits. Some of the symbol traits need to be combined so that you can run something along with the symbols if you decide to go full into symbols. Also there needs to be some sort of dynamic play with symbols, such as causing chill on pulse or even changing hammer symbol of protection (light field) to symbol of protection (frost field). Sword 2 and 3, Scepter 1, 2, and 3, Hammer 2, 4, 5 (using hammer 2 down or up a hill will cause the AOE to detonate above or below the target and doesn’t hit it, Hammer 4 should be an 3 target aoe which would change it from a troll attack to a useful CC [maybe change the range from 750 to 500 if its aoe], hammer 5 has the same ‘clunkyness’ that warrior’s hammer 4 had), Off-hand 5 ability cooldowns on shield/focus are quite long, maybe shave off 5 seconds from them, torch 5 needs to cleanse on the Guardian as well as friendlies. Spirit weapons need something done to them, they are nearly useless in wvw. Purging flames needs to remove condis on pulse, and last time I checked was still bugged.

In closing I will add that Guards can hold ground well, we just can’t keep someone on that ground. Please give us the tools to keep people fighting on our ground either through chill or symbol improvements. There are also quite a few other good suggestions on the Guardian forums.

Thanks in advance!

Dynnen.6405:

JonPeters.5630:

Guardian:
Tanky and supportive guardians are in a strong position in many gametypes. We do feel that damage guardians are not as powerful as they could be. While we don’t want guardians to be as strong offensively as some of the other classes (given their powerful defensive abilities) we opened up more offensive guardian builds.

• Zeal V – Shattered Aegis. Damage instead of Burning.
• Zeal VII – Zealous Blade. This trait now scales with Healing power (2%.)
• Zeal XII – Kindled Zeal. Increased conversion from 10% to 13%.
• Radiance V – Searing Flames. Reduced cooldown from 20s to 10s.
• Radiance X – Powerful blades. Increased damage from 5% to 10%.
• Valor V – Retributive Armor. Increased conversion rate from 5% to 7%.
• Honor VI – Pure of Heart. Increased scaling with Healing power from 25% to 40%.
• Virtues VIII – Supreme Justice. Number of attacks going from 4 to 3.
• Symbol of Swiftness: This skill now applies 4 seconds of swiftness per pulse, rather than 8 seconds if you have no swiftness and 1 second if you have swiftness.

Most of these changes are pretty solid. However there are still major problems with the weapons and other traits. Some of the symbol traits need to be combined so that you can run something along with the symbols if you decide to go full into symbols. Also there needs to be some sort of dynamic play with symbols, such as causing chill on pulse or even changing hammer symbol of protection (light field) to symbol of protection (frost field). Sword 2 and 3, Scepter 1, 2, and 3, Hammer 2, 4, 5 (using hammer 2 down or up a hill will cause the AOE to detonate above or below the target and doesn’t hit it, Hammer 4 should be an 3 target aoe which would change it from a troll attack to a useful CC [maybe change the range from 750 to 500 if its aoe], hammer 5 has the same ‘clunkyness’ that warrior’s hammer 4 had), Off-hand 5 ability cooldowns on shield/focus are quite long, maybe shave off 5 seconds from them, torch 5 needs to cleanse on the Guardian as well as friendlies. Spirit weapons need something done to them, they are nearly useless in wvw. Purging flames needs to remove condis on pulse, and last time I checked was still bugged.

In closing I will add that Guards can hold ground well, we just can’t keep someone on that ground. Please give us the tools to keep people fighting on our ground either through chill or symbol improvements. There are also quite a few other good suggestions on the Guardian forums.

Thanks in advance!

There are tons of good suggestions in the guard “Collaborative Development” thread.

Its like they’ve just ignored guardian concerns for the majority of the game. Ranger-only players complain a lot, but at least that class has had multiple viable PvP builds.

I appreciate the effort in involving the community, and I have some concerns regarding the changes, but my biggest question is the following:
Why was this not posted in each individual profession’s forum?

Why even have those forums if you aren’t going to use them? As a Necro main, I can safely say that the last time the Necro subforum was put to good use as far as developer-community interaction was probably… never? I mean, the last Dev post of with substance was talking about skillbar lag upon leaving Deathshroud, and that was a month ago.

I just don’t get it. Tons of good ideas get thrown about the profession subforums, and there are enough skilled players from all game modes that vet them, leading to fairly streamline community requests. And these requests seem to be entirely ignored, since you create this thread in a different section than the one designated for profession discussions.

If you want to talk about changes with effects across the board, such as altering boons/conditions or something that affects multiple professions, then yes, this makes sense. Otherwise, you leave the profession subforums to fester negativity towards the Devs, kind of like the Necromancer one.

Just one short thing: I only know this for mesmers but there are two traits that can only trigger when you were downed. IMO these traits are wasted slots because traits are there for you to benefit from them. Mesmers can choose between 3% less dmg or 5s chaos armor when rally or 5s retaliation when downed. All for 10points in chaos (toughness and boon duration line) where’s the sense in these traits? I do not understand why anyone should pick one of the “downstate traits” instead of less dmg. I don’t know how this is with other classes but for the Mesmer they really are useless and this is why I would say that all downstate traits should be replaced with more benefitial traits.

You could also just change it with “get 5s invulnerability after resell awning from a waypoint” or get a +1000%damageboost when you’re dead.

Balance patch without a nerf to perplexity 6piece bonus is not really a balance patch.

Ele: The reason people dont spec outside of 30arcane/15 water is for defensive mechanics (heals to make up for bad health). If you want to make fire traits more popular, make Fire Aura something that actually does a good job at deterring attackers. If you want to make air more popular, give staff and mainhand dagger a reason to use Fresh Air (as scepter already does with LS).

Ranger: Love the Longbow change and spirits unbound. Hate that their are no improvements to pet survivability in zergs/dungeons, hate that their are no improvements to shortbow range through eagle eye or that piercing arrows has not been merged with something else. Hate that trap related traits are in the precision/crit dmg line.

Warriors: The problem with Skullcrack was the low cooldown that allows it to set up for burst over and over and over, and not the damage Skullcrack was actually doing.

Thieves: Nerfing the non-stealth specs pushes players further into troll backstab and p/d specs. The more stealth heavy thieves you have, the worse you make wvw for the entire community.

well, anet i think buffing mantras is nothing we need as mantras as they are atm are not very useful. especially in a zerg…

i mean do u think i can charge my mantras(which btw decharge when in water o.0), then run in the middle of a zerg, attack a little bit(hitting barely anything, and then in that massive chaos of aoe and perma cc u go ahead and recharge that mantra……o.0

mantras are barely used as the way they work is not really ideal for a spam and aoe kinda meta or a fast speed combat game anyways.

id rather see a complete rework of mantras and turning them into aoe that dont require a clone/phantasm or for us to have to go close in order for it to hit…

mesmers are a light armor class that lack aoe which is bad and no ai is terrible in wvw.

So i have a Main ele since the game came out. D/D. It seems to me that all the time and work i have put into min/maxing my build. I finally got to the point where i felt i was able to take on any class and have a chance. they moved every single trait i use. how can a d/d ele survive having to choose between renewing stamina and elemental attunement? then they move cleansing water up so i cant remove a SINGLE condition upon water swap? So i have to choose between cleansing water and cantrip recharge. well say goodbye to using signet of restoration. it will be useless because we wont have enough condi removal. i feel forced to use ether renewal. The ele does fine damage with 30 in arcana and 20/30 in water. i dont need more damage, i need more survivability. it seems the ele in the long run will end up as slow as the necro and unable to cure conditions OR tank and damage. I feel that i now have to choose, do i want to be able to do damage, or (maybe) survive by running? someone explain to me how the ele changes can be positive for d/d. i really need it

So is longbow burst going to be more persistent on ground now? My math is weak sorry.

I wouldn’t mind seeing some improvements (the 100 range increase was nice) to longbow skills fan of fire and smoldering arrow.

I would love fan of fire being more of a wave of wrath/illusionary wave type skill (put in more cosmetic arrows) that is targetable like the balista spreashot. As is, its pretty worthless as 9/10 of the time its a 1 sec burn skill. Rarely can you get a good pierce or use out of all 3 arrows.

Smoldering arrow blind aoe 5sec is good on paper but hardly worthy of a 15sec recharge. I have no real suggested change other then make it ground targetable and cause a smoke field for that dreamy aoe stealth when combined with arcing shot on my warrior lol. Even a 30sec recharge on it would be welcome for that. But I know that’s dreaming so I stick with snow leopard ;-)

Josh Davis.6015:

Phoenix.5047:

I can understand why you’d move Unsuspecting Foe around, but does the direct damage on hammer really need to be nerfed? It already hits like a soggy weenie, and about as slowly to boot. Add in other class’ damage mitigation and hammer doesn’t seem to do much anymore.

We’ve tested what we assume will be the new meta hambow build (dropped burst mastery to keep unsuspecting) and it still does a ton of damage. You’ll need to drop defense to maintain that previous level of offense, ie dropping Melandru runes or Lyssa runes in favor of Ogre or something similar.

Alright I see, there are possible builds in the works. Just to polish my point though, my build uses the Barbarian amulet with Eagle runes, and that’s just to eek out an alright damage from the hammer, without Unsuspecting Foe; and I pack an axe since I know hammer isn’t going to cut it. It’s a small step back from full Berzerker. I guess I’m just hoping there’s not too much collateral damage to other hammer builds that are already trying to scrape together a decent damage source.

By the way, thanks for letting the community in on the discussion, I’m certainly grateful, sure we all are.