Guild Wars 2

JonPeters.5630:

Initiative changesWhat these changes intend to do is to increase the power of every single thief build that is not running these traits, and to ever so slightly reduce the maximum amount of initiative you can have per second if you min/max those traits.

‘Every single thief build that is not running these traits’ is a scattered collection of leveling builds from before players have access to Master level traits. You would have to bend over backwards to construct a (terrible) build at level 80 that does not include some of these traits; they are present in 4 of the 5 trait lines and are mandatory minor traits in 2 of them.

Many of these trait changes will inflict minimal damage. Slashing Quick Recovery makes investing deeply in Acrobatics for Quick Pockets less appealing, but isn’t going to exclude any play patterns (you’ll still take it on the way to Quick Pockets if you need tons of initiative). Reducing Kleptomaniac from a useful amount of initiative to a useless amount of initiative will eliminate a lot of the incentives to use your steal for initiative, but that was a marginal play that, again, increased base regen will more than make up for.

The one poised to inflict major damage is the sledgehammer you took to Opportunist. That trait is a big part of what makes thieves work against dungeon bosses – because when you are able to continuously attack a foe, it gives excellent initiative returns, giving you some ability to DPS and not just be a burst class. At the same time the proposed change is not a big deal in PvP, where it is so much more difficult to land attacks at all. Given the relative strengths of the class in PvE and PvP, making a trait change that is mostly horizontal in PvP (removing some gameplay and making it less interesting, but minimal power impact) while massively negative in PvE is in general a really poor change.

You should take a hard look at Opportunist before you decide to sledgehammer it.

In general, however, I consider this to be a good direction to move in, if in need of a lot of work from the initial cut.

JonPeters.5630:

Infiltrator’s Return
1) It stops you from using this skill while stunned, which puts more burden on Sword/Dagger thieves saving their stun breakers.

I won’t speak for sPvP where rolling around with #3 is (was?) a big deal, but in WvW the ability to blink out while stunned with Infiltrator’s Return is the entire point of running a sword in the first place. It is what allows you to play aggressively in a large fight – you cannot reasonably wade into melee as plan A if your only reliable escape is on a 50 second cooldown.

Blinking out when stunned is not a corner case in WvW – it is the core case.

I don’t think it’s a terrible change on its own – because such a reliable escape is kind of silly – but with the loss of larcenous strike sword doesn’t exactly have anything selling it anymore. The weapon is going to need some work after the beating it’s getting two patches in a row.

Phenn.5167:

Wait wait wait. On the whole “Weakening Shroud is OP” idea. I just remembered a single thief with 15 points in Deadly Arts and a Shortbow can keep up Weakness indefinitely in AoE.

They sledgehammered Lotus Poison a few patches ago. It’s a trash tier trait now.

Weakening Shroud is a strong trait, if annoying in its unreliability. As is it’s basically ‘the first time you go into Death Shroud, cast Enfeebling Blood at your location. Afterwards sometimes your foes will randomly get weakened when you enter Death Shroud.’

It would be a much healthier trait with a smaller effect and the cooldown removed – consistency and all.

cascaid.8379:

While the elementalist changes in this patch all look great, I am much more concerned about the change to earth staff in the last patch.
The removal of a field that can apply cripple has severely kitten the spec, and in its place we have a 3 second wall with practically no utility in PvE.
The primary source of damage for a condition ele is eruption, and without the ability to slow mobs, it becomes much more difficult to manage.
So where this patch would have made earth-staff even more fun to run, the lack of a reliable cripple is going to leave the spec….crippled.

Condition Ele doesn’t work in the first place anyway. The Earth #4 staff is an amazing skill for WvW, essentially an extra line of warding. It’s a huge buff and you should be grateful for it. And yeah, I already got that you’re not doing WvW.

On a general note about eles; I really DO hope Arenanet doesn’t think that we won’t go 30 in arcana anymore; Evasive Arcana is the best trait elementalists have and having a cooldown of 10 on your elements is crucial for keeping up your tempo during the battle. Maybe we’ll shift towards more offensive builds now though but that doesn’t mean that 30 in Arcana is still not a staple.

We are thinking Anet has no clear ideas.

The Thief must hit hard and avoid being hit. This is his role.
That is the definition of the Profession. What are you thinking Anet?

Go here and read it:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

Thief
Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

When changing skills and designing new ones try to think about more options of boon removal. Right now there are limited options to remove boons. They work fine in small scale fights on some classes.
But it lacks power against classes or builds which utilise boons. That’s where it would be needed to be powerful!

Let’s look at these skills…
On Mesmer:
Null Field – This skill is great for supporting someone fighting in melee range but it’s unlikly some enemy will stay in it longer than 2 ticks and if you want to use it’s ability to cleans yourself you will probably have to switch to a ranged weapon. It’s good but it’s also a double edged sword. Use it on an enemy for little boon remove or use it on yourself because most of the time you don’t bring more condi removal.
Arcane Thievery – This skill is great in 1vs1s which isn’t that good.. mesmer are already powerful enough in that and there are stronger utility skills to take. Its most weakening point is probably the long CD and/or the limited effect. Why not exchange all conditions & boons? If your fighting a stronger condiclass it isn’t that strong and against ele/guards which are buffing themselve all the time it’s also not really impressiv.
Phantasmal Disenchanter – It’s less used for removing boons than for removing conditions.
Mind Stab – This skill is getting better and better but the boon removal isn’t really that important on it. It wouldn’t hurt to remove more than 1 boon.
Mind Spike – This skill can get pretty nice taking in account that clones use it to. Great to have on an autoattack.
On shatter (traited) – The only way ingame to build around boon removal. On a shatter mesmer, this is the strongest way to remove boons in every kind of fight. Works in 1vs1 up to the largest wvw fights.

On Nekro:
Spinal Shivers – This skill isn’t bad at all.
Corrupt Boon – This is really nice, it can break heavy boon classes in a moment and will be the most powerful on a condimancer. In bigger fights it gets less important but can still be used to focus a single enemy or use him to target Epidemic.
Well of Corruption – This is very much like Null Field only that it’s purely offensiv which in my eyes is superior. You use this skill to attack and you know it the moment you equip it.

At the end of the day i’d say if you just want to make the opponent suffer from boon removal, nekro is the stronger choice. Mesmer will only remove boons but else there is no added value and most utility skills will backfire because you lose a condi removal when used to strip boons.

It would really help to break the meta of fully buffed zergs in wvw to add some new options of strong aoe boon removal.

How about skills that remove exactly (this boon) instead of (a boon)?
Remove swiftness could be balanced more like crippling.

Jon can you please looks at ranger greatsword? the 1 attack swing arc is weird and tends to miss stuff while you’re moving kinda reminds me what used to happen to ele lightning dagger 1, also please increase the range of the 5 skill on GS as it pretty much misses anything moving

in response to the condition guardian

Since it really does take at least 3 conditions for a condition dmg build to work, why not allow guardians access to bleed, and them give them something along the lines of terror for burning?

Perhaps a trait where the guardians symbols apply 1 second of “holy flames”, causing double dmg from burning or some other scaling.

Morinmeth.9823:

Condition Ele doesn’t work in the first place anyway. The Earth #4 staff is an amazing skill for WvW, essentially an extra line of warding. It’s a huge buff and you should be grateful for it. And yeah, I already got that you’re not doing WvW.

As I specifically stated in my post, my complaint is about the effect it has on the build in PvE.
As useful as it might be for running around in a zerg, it was a PvP buff at the detriment of PvE.

As for condition ele not working, that is purely a matter of opinion. While they might not match the single target damage of other classes, there are a lot of situations where, geared correctly, they are extremely powerful and enjoyable to play.

Pretty sure these have been said by someone before, but:

1. Necros need at least one way to gain vigor themselves. They have no access to vigor buff at this moment.
2. Deathshroud is pretty useless for a condition necro from damage point of view. Maybe a trait that lets you apply bleeding with Life blast?

These nerfs are the outcome of people complaining to much on the forums….Thiefs complain about warriors, rangers complain about everything, and eles wallow themselves into a deeper hole of sadness.
Why can’t we just play the game as it is? If it’s “unfair” that should tell you to get your gear/traits right and stop complaining. Play the kitten game and stop whining at each aspect about a class that you hate fighting against. Heck, next nerf might be to remove weapon swapping since it’s not fair to have two weapons. kitten COME ON!

Warrior changes make me sad seeing my favorite weapon is the hammer. I don’t see why the damage output of it has to be nerfed seeing how it is very CLEAR when a warrior is loading up for an Earth shaker or Staggering Blow. Players complaining for their inability to dodge and read movements make the game less fun seeing how their whining takes away from the experienced players. Now excuse me, need to make a new build and armor set to make-up for these NERFS.

Julie Yann.5379:

cesmode.4257:

JonPeters.5630:

Here are my comments on what we have seen discussed so far with the warrior changes.

-snip-

Link to warrior sub-forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/December-10th-Warrior-Changes/first#post3149139

Any comment on the greatsword warrior? Or why it is literally the only spec I see any warrior running around in, for PVE? Any plans to bring other specs or weapons up to match the effectiveness of greatsword?

The only reason that GS is so powerful in PvE is because of the mentally challenged AI. Mobs will just stand in a 100B without dodging, blocking, or even just walking away. If they fixed the AI then the GS damage would be on par with the rest of the weapons.

As for the Hammer nerf to ES and SB, I am still concerned that it would make the hammer very weak. Especially for those builds that don’t use UF or BM. Basically, it would limit our options when build trying to create a viable Hammer builds cause now we will be forced to go get 1 or the other in order to keep enough pressure on the enemy.

Ok, and since recoding some of the AI might take a while, why not bring other weapon sets up in line with the GS for the warrior, or bring the GS down a bit? I hardly ever see any warrior running anything but a GS. And that warrior is probably a zerker warrior too.

Want to talk about balance..well if PVE is in this discussion, then please balance this out. We need more spec diversity.

Im still just baffled how changing up the GS warrior for PVE did not make it into this balance patch at all. It is down right the most OP spec and most commonly played warrior spec in the game. 18-19k 100B? Without breaking a sweat. Choose any other weapon and youre useless to the group.

Jon, please read this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Lingering-Elements-5/first

Dear devs, before you close this thread a compilation of the concerns regarding how these changes will affect the p/p thief performance, with comments from different thieves:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/P-P-death-10-Dec

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

I didn’t read all the post since its today that i checked this, so i apologize if this was already mentioned. I main a guardian everything looks fine just a thing Kindled Zeal just merge it with other trait or removed it, add something like, remove enemies boons on symbols, or increased power while being on a symbol………gain healing power based on your power, add might per burning aplied …….. or anything else to me feels that Kindled Zeal being a grand master is a waste of a better trait

However the balance patch ends up in the end, I just wanted to voice my appreciation for this aspect of ANet’s changed approach to community management. Hearing the team’s thoughts and justifications on why changes were necessary is great, as is reading the thoughts of others on the set of changes. Please do keep this sort of approach in mind in the future of GW2’s development.

I would like to make a few sugestions for the thief’s Venom Share build.

1st proposal: Leeching Venoms with a new stack system.

Current scenario: This trait limits the amount of life steal, applied simultaneously, to only one per attack. However, in a Venom Share build is common to use two or more venoms skills, in the utility slots, punishing the Thief with the loss of life steal because it counts only 1 venom, not both.

Change: Create a new stack system, equal to the venom charges, that shows how many strikes you still have with that utility. For example, by using two venom skills that grants you 2 charges each, instead of activating 2 times the life steal, i would accumulate and you would have 04 stacks of life steal.

2ndt proposal: Residual Venom and Venomous Aura – traits- when used together activate an unique effect.

Current Scenario: The classic Venom Share build has very little space for customization, usually follows with 30 in deadly arts and 30 in shadow arts. Costing the Thief lot of their traits designed to survival and direct damage.

Change: Starting from the assumption that developers do not want to relocate the traits I propose an extra skill activated when residual venom and venomous aura are simultaneously active in the same build. Considering that most venoms intended for crowd controll, I suggest a 10% bonus on condition duration. This would release the thief of using one of his weapons with the attribute giver, runes or food that give bonus cond. duration to reach 50%. This would be especially good when using the short bow. What would allow the thief using these resources to increase their survival or damage.

Engi main here.

I’m fine with all of the changes to my class. I can still have perma vigor, and will have to give up recharge on nades for incin powder now (Probably will go 30/10/0/20/10 post patch).

Warrior changes seem like a step in the right direction, but you should take a look at their regen. It can get pretty crazy at times, though I play a class very well suited to taking down regen builds with high poison uptime, so I haven’t noticed it AS much as other classes probably have.

Guardian changes I loved. DPS Guard is my favorite build to play, awesome that you’re buffing it.

Ele changes – Really, anything that’s classified as a buff to the class is a good change atm. Diamond Skin might be pretty amazing. (AR Engi + DS ele duo??)

Thief: I don’t know much about the class, except from when I’ve fought it. S/D definitely needed to be toned down, nice to see that it has been. The ini regen buff will be huge for a lot of people.

Mesmer – My old main, the IC buff is going to be awesome for a lot of people. Mender’s purity is going to be so good. Mantra Mastery + Shattered strength are okay. Rest are pretty meh imo.

Necro changes seem okay. 2 less bleeds from a necro condi burst is amazing in my book, though tbh, I get more worried about the non-damaging condis from Spite Signet moreso that then bleeds.

Ranger spirit changes are good. The buffs to power stuff is really nice to see, though as someone else said, it might have too much stuff in one traitline.

K U T M.4539:

Engi main here.

I’m fine with all of the changes to my class. I can still have perma vigor, and will have to give up recharge on nades for incin powder now (Probably will go 30/10/0/20/10 post patch).

it’s a build near the one i use at the moment, and i think changes it’s not a problema, but as a main engineer i would like to have more build option arent’ you interested? XD

Skirmishing XII – Moment of Clarity. Stun Duration increased from 50% to 100%.

This change can be interesting, but there are some problems with this trait:
1. Only 2 skills are affected by this trait.
2. These skills have long CD (25s).
3. One of these skill (Concussion Shoot) is on a set (Short Bow) that won’t get a great bonus from the 50% more damage.

For those reason I suggest do decrease the CD of Hilt Bash and Concussion Shoot from 25s to 10s. This will bring the CD of that interrupt similar to Warrior or Engineer interruptions.

With this change I’m sure we will see roaming rangers. They will run power build based on Great Sword. And with this other change:

Nature Magic IX – Two Handed Training. Added the following functionality to this trait. Greatsword and Spear attacks have a chance to grant Fury on hit. 50% chance. 3s Fury. 10s cooldown

I think we will see something like 0/30/20/20/0.

With the change to Speedy Kits.
Will we see a increase in Invigorating Speeds Vigor and Infused Precision’s Swiftness?
Example: Invigorating Speed: 7s Vigor – 7s ICD / Infused Precision: 7s Swiftness – 7s ICD.
This way Invigorating Speed will still be very viable with Speedy Kits and still take a slight nerf and Infused precision will still work with it and be more on parr with the Warriors Furious Speed.
This is something id like to see if the Speedy Kits change is really happening, What are your opinions?
Sincerely Trebuchette.

@JonPeters:

Any word as to why Greatsword warriors were left untouched? In PVE, they are handsdown the most powerful class in terms of damage. I very rarely see anything but a greatsword warrior.

I was hoping that there would be some changes to encourage people to consider other classes, builds, weapon loadouts for speedruns. I don’t see that happening since nothing has changed for this class that would bring them down to the level of the rest of the classe.s

Comments?

Wall of text inc, not to troll, but because i can’t shorten my opinions, and i feel like I have to put them down, in hope anet changes their perception a bit.

I played all 8 profession a lot of hours. i’m not bond to any atm although i like certain more then others. I ditched 3 profession completely (eternal), cause you took away their ‘unique feeling’, and most viable skills/traits. These are mesmer, ele and necro. These professions aren’t necessary underpowered, but in the grand scheme of things, all gameplay modes, every aspect of the game taken into account, they fall way to far behind, being such a hindrance/anoying way of playing, that they are not worth playing anymore. I don’t say this to create drama. But I say this, cause you guys really must be cautious with profession changes/balance. I know you live in a dreamworld striving to make spvp 100% balanced. First of all impossible. And since it’s impossible, you should ask the question, how close can we get? Is this the closest we can get? Answer is fully YES imo. Apart from warrior quirks (by far strongest passive rewards in game, without having to play for it hard/well), i think spvp is more or less balanced, although profession still have minor issues (but fixing those issues will never break the spvp balance), so, any supernerf/boost = uncalled for. just stop it Anet. Thanks. I know you are payed to do your job balance team, but go on vacation, instead of over passionate doing your job. What you also miss to realize is, you killed 100’s builds/playstyles in pve (hardcore pve, not ‘go to noob zone and kill mobs there’), by balancing spvp, is that really necessary? Wvw is more fun then pve, and pve is more fun then spvp. Nothing you do will change that opinion on a lot of people. Especially spvp being least liked game mode will remain for a long time. Stop focussing so kitten it. My post may seem lonely, and easy to ignore, but from ingame chatting, forum reading, i’m confidant, this opinion plays in a lot of gw2 players. It’s time you ‘up your game’. I have only two profession left that I still find fun to play in all 3 gamemodes, and hope to have immunity against ‘fun stealing to balance’-virus you guys spread so much. So voila, i had to say it, my hopes are low (you guys seem to only change 5% of the listed changes here, by player input, means 95% of your own opinion is ‘unbreakable’), but it’s there, the hope.

elementalist thoughts
Personally abandoned for lack of sustained pve dps, way to long cast times compared to other professions. Lots of the ‘bigger effect’ spells end result, can be imitated on other profs without much trouble. Also abandoned because you nerfed the only counter they had to their MASSIVE squishyness: cantrips, healing and other stuff. You nerfed it. Jons post says ‘we won’t up hp of ele no matter what’, well the current staple of ele skills is not adequate to fullfill the role of ‘low survival by default, high impact by skillfull played’-profession. Noone of the changes you listed here will change that. Nerfing ‘elemental attunement’ will only increase this. If anything this trait should be default on ele’s, (make it 5 point arcane minor trait). Cause wathever boosts you do to other stuff, this nerf (ele attune.) will make ele even harder to survive with their low default survival passives. Instead of fixing it you are killing it. Wrong move.
Thief thoughts
Perma stealth needed to be dealth with so good move. Initiative regain change, the thought process is good. But it may have problems in practise when it goes life. Don’t be stubborn, and fix them asap. While the change probably won’t be a mistake, side effects will be. Admit those side effects faster then you used to please.
Vigor nerf is understandable BUT of all profs in game, it feels to me that thief is the profession that deserves the most evasion. Stealth so far has been a fix to this cause you can more were people don’t know you will be. With this gone (at least perma stealthing), don’t underestemate, the effect of nerfing thief evasion at same time. Their survival will take a major blow. In my opinion the ini change is so big that you should postpone any vigor/endurance/evasion nerfs. If it’s to powerfull at least we would see, and conclude you were right and that you can do it. But now it feels like ’let’s do it fast, so people can’t protest’ change. ‘collaborative thinking’ includes testing the changes. Give thiefs a chance to keep up.
I understand your thought process behind ‘thiefs are close combat, can’t have 1200 range, but think about this: what gives warrior (who are more defined then any class in the game by close combat) the right to have 1200 (powerfull) range skills, and thief not? Thief is more squishy then warrior already by default. For wvw also, it’s like taking thiefs out of the wall defence equation. It’s very hard to land 900 range stuff over the length of below/top of the wall. While in spvp this may be fine, it’s not in wvw. This should be on your shortlist for future, wathever way you want to fix it.

Necromancer
‘mark of blood is one of the most flexible skills in the game’. Carefull with that statement please. The 2k damage potential only happens when you can’t remove conditions. The regen part is incredibly hard to pull off, especially if you want to also apply the bleeds. there rarely is a situations for this. Stacking two of these is also hard. In pvp nobody that is dumb will stay in the same location (where the mark was already placed 6 sec ago, and let himself be spammed right away again.)
The real problem IS and remains condition burst. Every condition you add to the equation makes it harder for the enemy to remove them. Ranger is a good example of this. But thiefs and mesmer also have this issue. You keep saying ‘Dhuumfire is nice, we are not removing it’. It’s hard to understand why. First of all it stacks on top of all other things like bleed, poison, terror, but it also is another layer that the enemy must remove before getting to the real threat: terror/bleed. And this can be done every 10 secs. Wich is crazy, if you look at condition removal of classes. Basically every 10 secs a scepter necro can apply almost certainly 4 bleeds, 2x poison auto-attack, and the burning trigger. So what IF you do cond removal? Rinse and repeat, every 10 sec. Add on top of that cripple, weakness, chilling vulnerability ‘cover conditions’, and the enemy will never be able to remove the ‘holy trinity’ of scepter auto attack with dhuumfire. Wich does likely 1200-1800 damage per sec, unpunished, while you are standing out of melee range. Still think dhuumfire is not the problem? It is, removing it, will make cover conditions more important again, and pressing remove conditions more rewarding cause bleeds will be the real deal again, and people will know they that that is what they must remove to survive, rather then burning, then cover conditions then bleed as it is now. Nerf dhuumfire, keep mark of blood as it is. I hate condi necro’s in spvp, but mark of blood doesn’t need any nerf.
Power necro’s are a joke, in spvp they may work well, but in pve, there’s not enough aoe, auto attack (cleaving melee), to ever make it good enough. And there lies your problem anet, you can to give necro a pvp role, but you forget the emptyness necro brings to pve. It’s time to adress it.

Mesmer thoughts

Basic all clone/phantasm cooldowns were a mistake in beta. And you didn’t know how to fix it. So first you nerfed the cooldown exactly as much as essence celerity could give, to basically nulify the traits boost. Mesmer ofc still liked it to much to not go for it, and basically every build included that trait. Then the nerf came, POOF 25 trait points necessary, OUCH. In a condition tree for the love of god. All power builds that even relied a bit on phantasms/clones (all do that to some extend), were nerfed.
It’s time to revert this whole mistake, and stop dragging mesmers with it. Remove essence celerity completely, and make the base phantasm cooldowns, like it would be currently with that trait, but without the weapon mastery yet.

This will make SO MUCH more builds viable, without ever making mesmer overpowered. Time to do it anet. If you keep lurking around the beta mistake trait essence celerity, it’s always gonna be a killer for build variety.
Also mesmer aoe stinks. In spvp this may be ok, but in zerg fights this truly is not ok. For pve i’ll give scarlet invasion as example. Apart from phant. berserker every now and then all mesmer can do it attack mobs one by one. Weither it’s pve boost only, this needs to be fixed. It’s a lingering issues that frustrates a lot of mesmer (t o a lesser or bigger degree), but frustrations, are never a good thing, they drive people away from professions. Time to fix it.

Ranger thoughts
Ranger is to much held back by bugged skills. You may now have offcially stated ‘sword works as intended’, but that doesn’t change my opinion, that it is bugged. And with that confirmation i will not use it in the future ever, and i won’t invest in Bolt ever. Another potential viable weapon, taken away from the list ‘fun to play with, viable to play with, future proof for the game’. It has play, don’t get me wrong, but it’s a niche, and way to much focused around dueling (1 vs 1), and this game is not about that.
I said bugs, and yes they keep the profession back. Pet skills rarely respond in time. Like i see lot of spvp people coming at me, and one almost downed guy is about to aoe me, i quickly press fear on him (wolf), so i can get him down and then stomp him before the train arrives. Guess what? SKill doenst respond for 5 secs. Bye bye me, bye bye opportunity kill enemy fast. these skills (all of them) really should respond faster.
Then evading. The ranger is setup that way that in most cases dps isn’t that good, and will be blasted away by profession like warrior even if the pet is alive (wich is incredible hard in content like bosses, dragons, wvw). I always saw evasion as a compensation for that, and for the kind low hp/armor we have (compared to warriors). We also don’t have that much protection to rely on, or condition removal. A second problem i have is positioning. A LB ranger in melee range, is wrong in a lot of situations. The only way to fix that imo is a quick dodge in the right direction. Access (viable, on more frequent basis, like engie/necro) to more cripple/chill, could fix this. But that’s nowhere in your list of compensation for the natural vigor nerf.

Speaking of the devil in the house: Natural vigor. quote: ’let’s be fair, this trait is totally overpowered, because comparison X’. While in true sense completely true, the silence connected towards other professions having even better access to endurance regen without nerfs incoming is a slap in the face of rangers. Signet of stamina? almost as easy access, and incredible good second effect. And it’s combined with higher base armor/hp/healing/condition removal. Fair? No. Neither is warhorn vigor (without announced nerf), mesmer 5 point trait vigor, and guardian 5 trait vigor. If to much dodging is overpowered, then it should be done consequently on all professions.
So we strip this from ranger, you want auto GS evade gone, and natural vigor half, not much real dodge lift, not? only sword 3 and dagger 4 are viable evasions. Sword 2 only works if you enemy is to slow with his spell, any fast cast thing, hits you before the leap backwards happens. Worthless imo. On a personal note: If you change swoop, it might be one of those ‘time to leave the profession’ changes. It’s one of my few skill left that really make me love ranger, both for it’s animation, and effect in gameplay. Knowing how evades are implemented, I totally disagree with making it an evade. Rather leave GS totally alone then.

Then there’s the ‘put 30 traits or your utilities are useless’ issues. You guys seemingly want to keep this, and reading your posts, the word ‘role’ keeps coming back. It seems that ‘choosing traits’, to you guys is ‘choosing a role to play. Don’t go to far in this please. My warrior atm has a build that has no role. Not because it’s not good. Rather because it’s above average in everything, and in some things very good. Basically it covers all roles in one. Just one lazy build. If I would have loved warrior gameplay (personal) more, i would have married this build, since you guys rarely nerf warriors, and they are above meta already. Basically i wouldn’t have to worry ever anymore about not being good at something. Now to go back to were this puts ranger, ranger basically has no role in wvw and spvp at the moment, and requiring grandmaster traits to be ‘adequate’ at something, is not the way to go Anet. They should be easier to access. And instead you should put ‘condition removal’ or stuff alike in grandmaster trees.
And i agree with longbow/shortbow issues. These things need 40 trait points to be viable, wich is stupid, since then there’s no room left to ‘choose that role’, you guys so much talk about. Time to merg traits (eagle eye, piercing, bow cd, wathever, but merge please).

Engineer thoughts

Incindiery power nerf. This will make pistol builds even worse. I can live with it, BUT the listed boosts are nowhere close enough to compensate. It’s time to give pistol a viable auto attack (and not crappy 2-3 sec bleed). Either increase bleed, or power component, or make it channeled with a third more powerfull effect.
Vigor nerf i can live with, at least if you are consequent to nerf warrior (horn) mesmer/guard (5 point trait) vigor.
I know balancing engie is very hard, cause if you make belt skills as powerfull as utility slots they potentially could make engies have 7x (strong) utiltiy then other 3x utility profession. But at the same time, i feel a little pigeonholed into ‘2x kit + defensive utility + their not to great belt skills’ builds. this gives us 4 toolbelt skills and 1 utility. While some toolbelt skills are ok, some are really underwhelming and could use a boost. Same for kit skills (Elixir gun 2+3 for instance). But i get it, very hard to do this without ‘popping the word overpowered’. Just keep trying, keep putting up idea’s, there’s always room for improvement, and this is not the time to give up, cause i think it could lift the engineer to a new level of fun.

cesmode.4257:

@JonPeters:

Any word as to why Greatsword warriors were left untouched? In PVE, they are handsdown the most powerful class in terms of damage. I very rarely see anything but a greatsword warrior.

I was hoping that there would be some changes to encourage people to consider other classes, builds, weapon loadouts for speedruns. I don’t see that happening since nothing has changed for this class that would bring them down to the level of the rest of the classe.s

Comments?

I, too, would like to see some interaction along this line. There’s an unhealthy pre-occupation in these so-called balance efforts with PvP. So much so that the things that are broken in PvE go ignored, and those things in PvE that are okay get broken with each “balance” patch.

Warrior
In my opinion to strong atm. I get the problem though, melee can get boring at times, unless it feels ‘epic’. The high damage at the moments adds to this feel. But its to strong in my opinion.
Hammer nerfs i have a double feeling. When i die in wvw, i always check combag log. On top is always, warrior hammer. Auto attacks, stuns, 1-3k damage. Other things barely hit me with 300-800 damage on average. Most of these warriors are full tank gear (pvt or cleric), so i kinda question if 1000+ damage then per hit is fair. On the other side i never realized the impact of Unsuspecting foe. Either all these warriors run it, or hammer base damage is just this high. All the hardcore wvw guilds i know, don’t use US. But they still do massive damage (at least in my opinion 1500 blows are massive, for auto attack). This proposed hammer nerf, will hit pve very hard though, and here we go back to original text again. You nerfed another pve build. Your 500th by now. Learn your lesson, and make this spvp only nerfs (and maybe wvw, but not pve). But something tells me you guys won’t listen to this, you can always proof me wrong.
In spvp the hammer nerf is a bit double, if any (ally) of warrior enemy stuns you, it’s incredible easy to stunlock you further as warrior and just blast you to dead, there’s no skill involved, when you wasted your stunbreaker/stability already (or don’t have it, like some bottom tire professions atm). But 1 vs 1 predictable enough to stand a chance, (not a big one, but nonetheless, chance is chance).
Healing signet, time to nerf. No not drastically 220 hps before WAS to weak. We know it. But 300 hp, would be perfect middle ground. As compensation, healing coeficient is brought up so that 1000-1500 healing builds, will keep as much healing then with healing signet, as they do now with it. Only nerf it for non healing builds, base thus.
If you think that makes warrior to naked (for wathever reason, cause it seems from all profession in game, you deem warrior the most combat engaged worthy by giving them the most protective passives in the game), then instead of previous suggestion, move part of healing signet healing to adrenal health. But make it so that empty adrenal health + signet will be a quite a bit weaker in future then now, while full adrenenline + signet will be same strength. Why is this so important? Opportunity cost. Choices. Sacrafice. Warrior barely has to make any. It’s time they have to join the 7 other professions with it.
Longbow i can confirm, cause it’s part of my build atm, that’s very strong. Way to easy to rebuild adrenaline. And to easy to spam. Pin down is incredible strong, i’m not calling for a nerf, but you start to wonder why shortbow of ranger doens’t have anything like it.

Guardian
Updates seem good, although it doesn’t remove some of the issues for guardian. Weapon variation is to low imo (when did you ever see 1h sword guard in spvp? I didn’t at least). Shield is also way to weak. It should be at least as strong as warrior shield (but different ofc). Guardian also has to stay thrilled but with only half the weapon choice warriors have, i think it’s time to add more to guardian. A lot of guardian skills are very slow animations, and after a while it makes guardian feel like it barely impacts the battlefield. This is more a perception then truth, but a lot of players feel it, and I think some kind of improvement is in order here. Not necessary speeding up skills. But making animations more epic or so.

Sorry for wall of text, but i’m not the person to give half argumented opinions. Consider 4k playtime (not afk time) quite adequate to post a long opinion.

Phenn.5167:

cesmode.4257:

@JonPeters:

Any word as to why Greatsword warriors were left untouched? In PVE, they are handsdown the most powerful class in terms of damage. I very rarely see anything but a greatsword warrior.

I was hoping that there would be some changes to encourage people to consider other classes, builds, weapon loadouts for speedruns. I don’t see that happening since nothing has changed for this class that would bring them down to the level of the rest of the classe.s

Comments?

I, too, would like to see some interaction along this line. There’s an unhealthy pre-occupation in these so-called balance efforts with PvP. So much so that the things that are broken in PvE go ignored, and those things in PvE that are okay get broken with each “balance” patch.

Thank you! So im not the only loon that think these changes are PVP centric.

If anyone thinks balance does not impact PVE, they are wrong. Just look at the optimal group set up for many dungeon runs: Zerker warrior and zerker mesmer. If Greatsword warriors took a hit, then there might be some more group combinations going in. But everyone wants a zerker warrior because his 100b hits like a truck, and mobs just sit there and take it.

I would love to see some warriors with a shield, or see a warrior running around a dungeon DW axes. But they are inexistant. Ignoring these issues for PVE fosters the same type of elitism groups that have been running wild in the game for months now.
Zerker warrior/mesmer or go home.

cesmode.4257:

Phenn.5167:

cesmode.4257:

@JonPeters:

Any word as to why Greatsword warriors were left untouched? In PVE, they are handsdown the most powerful class in terms of damage. I very rarely see anything but a greatsword warrior.

I was hoping that there would be some changes to encourage people to consider other classes, builds, weapon loadouts for speedruns. I don’t see that happening since nothing has changed for this class that would bring them down to the level of the rest of the classe.s

Comments?

I, too, would like to see some interaction along this line. There’s an unhealthy pre-occupation in these so-called balance efforts with PvP. So much so that the things that are broken in PvE go ignored, and those things in PvE that are okay get broken with each “balance” patch.

Thank you! So im not the only loon that think these changes are PVP centric.

If anyone thinks balance does not impact PVE, they are wrong. Just look at the optimal group set up for many dungeon runs: Zerker warrior and zerker mesmer. If Greatsword warriors took a hit, then there might be some more group combinations going in. But everyone wants a zerker warrior because his 100b hits like a truck, and mobs just sit there and take it.

I would love to see some warriors with a shield, or see a warrior running around a dungeon DW axes. But they are inexistant. Ignoring these issues for PVE fosters the same type of elitism groups that have been running wild in the game for months now.
Zerker warrior/mesmer or go home.

Yup. I’ve asked for Dev interaction on this blatant refusal to consider the impact on PvE of these PvP-centric balances on three separate occasions in this thread, and they have heretofore been ignored.

I understand the desire to keep things roughly similar across gametypes, but the reality is PvE is vastly different to both PvP and WvW. I have yet to see a single “balance” patch directed at PvE. The only possible exception was the recent increase in “minion” HP in PvE. But that’s such a token nod to the broken reality of minions of all kinds in PvE that it’s almost insulting.

But all that being said, the PvE-focused community has had to “make it work” with every balance patch thus far, and we will continue to do so. It’d just be nice to not have to scramble and re-work everything anytime a PvP-centric balance hits.

Phenn.5167:

cesmode.4257:

Phenn.5167:

cesmode.4257:

@JonPeters:

Any word as to why Greatsword warriors were left untouched? In PVE, they are handsdown the most powerful class in terms of damage. I very rarely see anything but a greatsword warrior.

I was hoping that there would be some changes to encourage people to consider other classes, builds, weapon loadouts for speedruns. I don’t see that happening since nothing has changed for this class that would bring them down to the level of the rest of the classe.s

Comments?

I, too, would like to see some interaction along this line. There’s an unhealthy pre-occupation in these so-called balance efforts with PvP. So much so that the things that are broken in PvE go ignored, and those things in PvE that are okay get broken with each “balance” patch.

Thank you! So im not the only loon that think these changes are PVP centric.

If anyone thinks balance does not impact PVE, they are wrong. Just look at the optimal group set up for many dungeon runs: Zerker warrior and zerker mesmer. If Greatsword warriors took a hit, then there might be some more group combinations going in. But everyone wants a zerker warrior because his 100b hits like a truck, and mobs just sit there and take it.

I would love to see some warriors with a shield, or see a warrior running around a dungeon DW axes. But they are inexistant. Ignoring these issues for PVE fosters the same type of elitism groups that have been running wild in the game for months now.
Zerker warrior/mesmer or go home.

Yup. I’ve asked for Dev interaction on this blatant refusal to consider the impact on PvE of these PvP-centric balances on three separate occasions in this thread, and they have heretofore been ignored.

I understand the desire to keep things roughly similar across gametypes, but the reality is PvE is vastly different to both PvP and WvW. I have yet to see a single “balance” patch directed at PvE. The only possible exception was the recent increase in “minion” HP in PvE. But that’s such a token nod to the broken reality of minions of all kinds in PvE that it’s almost insulting.

But all that being said, the PvE-focused community has had to “make it work” with every balance patch thus far, and we will continue to do so. It’d just be nice to not have to scramble and re-work everything anytime a PvP-centric balance hits.

Not to mention, they have said in the past that they can and are willing to break up the changes if needed.

But specifically, the game needs a greatsword warrior nerf, at least in PVE. GS Warriors are just leaps and bounds better in both survivability and damage output compared to any other warrior spec or class.

JonPeters.5630:

• Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incmoing critical hits. 10s recharge.

What? Why the soothing wave change? I really like that trait, it has the potential to be useful in a ton of builds because of how many areas it applies to, more mid to lower tier Elementalist traits should be like it, not less.

I take it on two different builds I switch to on occasion which are very fun, including a FB/LA one which is actually really good since the conjure changes. But the main problem with both builds is that as you are swapping attunements what few conditions you have are dropping off, meaning you never have a lot of covering conditions and, as with most ele condition builds, one single condition remover kills you. This trait is one of the few that does a world of good for conditionmancer eles, and could potentially have even greater affect with the new attunement recharge.

Please tell me it’s affects are at least going to be placed somewhere else in the tree.

Hi Jon, I know I already asked this on page 1, but I really would like to know if Thief sword/dagger #3 will be getting any attention. Recap:

“If thief sword is going to get a cast time for infiltrator’s return, would it be possible to look into flanking strike and larcenous strike again? Ever since it was nerfed to only steal one boon, I find myself almost never using it, due to the fact that boon durations are generally very short, they are re-applied very easily, and there’s no control whatsoever on which boon you will be stealing anyways.

I do agree that it was too powerful at 2 boons stolen per larcenous strike, but I find it far too weak at 1 boon stolen… do you think the skill could be modified in some other fashion so that it’s not such a waste of initiative anymore?"

cesmode.4257:

Phenn.5167:

cesmode.4257:

Phenn.5167:

cesmode.4257:

@JonPeters:

Any word as to why Greatsword warriors were left untouched? In PVE, they are handsdown the most powerful class in terms of damage. I very rarely see anything but a greatsword warrior.

I was hoping that there would be some changes to encourage people to consider other classes, builds, weapon loadouts for speedruns. I don’t see that happening since nothing has changed for this class that would bring them down to the level of the rest of the classe.s

Comments?

I, too, would like to see some interaction along this line. There’s an unhealthy pre-occupation in these so-called balance efforts with PvP. So much so that the things that are broken in PvE go ignored, and those things in PvE that are okay get broken with each “balance” patch.

Thank you! So im not the only loon that think these changes are PVP centric.

If anyone thinks balance does not impact PVE, they are wrong. Just look at the optimal group set up for many dungeon runs: Zerker warrior and zerker mesmer. If Greatsword warriors took a hit, then there might be some more group combinations going in. But everyone wants a zerker warrior because his 100b hits like a truck, and mobs just sit there and take it.

I would love to see some warriors with a shield, or see a warrior running around a dungeon DW axes. But they are inexistant. Ignoring these issues for PVE fosters the same type of elitism groups that have been running wild in the game for months now.
Zerker warrior/mesmer or go home.

Yup. I’ve asked for Dev interaction on this blatant refusal to consider the impact on PvE of these PvP-centric balances on three separate occasions in this thread, and they have heretofore been ignored.

I understand the desire to keep things roughly similar across gametypes, but the reality is PvE is vastly different to both PvP and WvW. I have yet to see a single “balance” patch directed at PvE. The only possible exception was the recent increase in “minion” HP in PvE. But that’s such a token nod to the broken reality of minions of all kinds in PvE that it’s almost insulting.

But all that being said, the PvE-focused community has had to “make it work” with every balance patch thus far, and we will continue to do so. It’d just be nice to not have to scramble and re-work everything anytime a PvP-centric balance hits.

Not to mention, they have said in the past that they can and are willing to break up the changes if needed.

But specifically, the game needs a greatsword warrior nerf, at least in PVE. GS Warriors are just leaps and bounds better in both survivability and damage output compared to any other warrior spec or class.

People are the first to complain about how PvE is too easy. They never seem to consider the possibility that one of the reason why PvE is too easy is because of how cheap and easy damage is in this game. Right now, damage is too high in PvE and it leads to encounters being dps races (in dungeons), they need to bring down damage and improve encounters, of the two reducing damage is the fastest way.

Just to add, PvE for the most part is simple enough that you don’t need a lot of difference between both pvp and PvE. Some changes are difference are nice, but PvE is not going to be severely affected by PvP changes unless they are drastic and none of the changes seeem that drastic, yet.

JonPeters.5630:

Here is a summary of the changes we have made thus far based on feedback we have read. This is not necessarily the end of adjustments, but where we stand currently. There were a lot of good suggestions, and some of them may not be able to make it due to time constraints on testing and implementation. Please continue to give feedback over the course of the next few days. We will continue to monitor that feedback and take it into account in changes we make for this patch and for the future.

ELEMENTALIST

• Arcane Resurrection is going up to master tier instead of Renewing Stamina.
• Windborne Dagger is going to function outside of combat.
• Soothing Disruption is moving to master tier.
• Cantrip Mastery is moving to adept tier.
• Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incmoing critical hits. 10s recharge.

ENGINEER

• Power Shoes is going to function outside of combat.

MESMER

• Confounding Suggestions – We will merge the old functionality with the new functionality. It will now have 50% change to stun on daze and increase daze duration by 25%.

THIEF

• Vigorous Recovery will come down to kitten Vigor instead of 4s.
• Bountiful Theft will come down to a 10s Vigor instead of 8s.

WARRIOR

• Combustive Shot. To clarify this change, the damage is normalized to about 15% less physical damage than it used to do at all adrenaline levels, but that the damage per pulse is the same regardless of adrenaline level.

Reminder, we will be locking this thread near the end of the week.

Thanks,

Jon

You guys need to come up with a plan on what you want the Ranger to do. If you want it to have a realistic power options you need to sit down and determin what makes power builds for other classes work and figure what the class is missing.

Right now I’m just not seeing anything to move the Ranger in a direction other than strictly condition bunker with pet support. Nearly every change you made will impact this entirely.

Longbow damage is hardly what is holding back power Rangers. It’s the complete lack of burst, AE, utility, and focus of the class overall. I’m still unable to tell what the Ranger class is even supposed to do in GW2.

JonPeters.5630:

ELEMENTALIST

• Arcane Resurrection is going up to master tier instead of Renewing Stamina.
• Windborne Dagger is going to function outside of combat.
• Soothing Disruption is moving to master tier.
• Cantrip Mastery is moving to adept tier.

Yay! But it is not clear if Soothing Wave and Cleansing Wave will remain at their respective tiers, or if they’ll be swapped.

• Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incoming critical hits. 10s recharge.

Interesting design, but it has some issues.

I assume this will be adept tier, right? Seems about right in power-level.

I misread at first and thought it would spec on our own critical hits, and that this trait would synergize well with air magic’s Soothing Winds. Apparently, that’s not what happens.

What I question about this redesign, is its synergy with the grandmaster Cleansing Water. If a player wishes to combine both for condition removal, which seems to be a very intuitive combo, the results aren’t going to be satisfying due to how unreliable it is. For example, what if I don’t have any condition on me once it triggers? Will it trigger and waste cleansing water’s cooldown? And even if it doesn’t, after getting critically hit, I would have to wait 10s until this combo could potentially do anything. It feels that both traits would combine poorly with each other, which is misleading, as their effects imply otherwise.

Perhaps a possible solution would be to reduce soothing wave’s cooldown to 5s, so that when combined with cleansing water, the combo is powerful enough to justify investing on a grandmaster trait just for it. The regen duration would need to be lower, of course, to 2s maybe. Would that make it too strong, considering it would make the trait individually stronger than what you have in mind?

Also, can the AI in pve critically hit? I honestly don’t know this, but I hope they can.

Atherakhia.4086:

Longbow damage is hardly what is holding back power Rangers.

Hee hee, you said “Power Rangers”!

JonPeters.5630:

Here is a summary of the changes we have made thus far based on feedback we have read. This is not necessarily the end of adjustments, but where we stand currently. There were a lot of good suggestions, and some of them may not be able to make it due to time constraints on testing and implementation. Please continue to give feedback over the course of the next few days. We will continue to monitor that feedback and take it into account in changes we make for this patch and for the future.

From a big GW2 fan, thanks for the solid communication. From a Necro…I’m truly shocked shocked shocked that we aren’t listed as any further changes yet, especially with all the back and forth discussion with Devs on our own balance thread.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Damaskinos.1263:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

AgentChaos.4932:

good change to symbol of swiftness but can we have pure of voice removes 2 condi back?

I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for that one.

• How is the change to symbol of Swiftness any good? So many classes move much faster then Guardians. If you want to nerf this, give us an Adept trait, that gives us flat 25% movement spead, like Warriors have it.

In many cases the symbol of swiftness change is actually a buff and not a nerf. Currently it will only apply the initial large portion of swiftness if the target does not currently have any swiftness on them. If they have swiftness on them or after that first pulse it will then add 1 second of swiftness per pulse. This is very awkward and clunky.

The change makes the spell apply a consistent 4 seconds of swiftness per pulse without the strange hidden mechanic. Basically. if you already have swiftness on the people which you using the symbol on or if you take the time to stand in the spell for the full duration then it will just be a buff. =)

This change will make many guardians annoyed and then really upset (and why do that if it doesn’t really affect balance?).

Using your own words to address the reason for the change (why not to change it) —-—-

“This is very awkward and clunky” —-—- having to…… “take the time to stand in the spell for the full duration then it will just be a buff”

People don’t want to sit in a stationary symbol to gain swiftness to move faster —-— it is counter productive and poor time management to do so – for moving from point A to point B.

PLEASE keep it the way it is – thank you.

JonPeters.5630:

THIEF

• Vigorous Recovery will come down to kitten Vigor instead of 4s.

Got to watch out for that kitten Vigor, that stuff is OP! They do have nine lives after all.

Test:
1s
2s
3s
kitten

6s
7s
8s
9s
10s

Elementalist: Lingering Elements

Currently planned bugfix: Lingering elements will now work with flame barrier, stone flesh, soothing mists and zephyr’s speed.

Problem: Remains bad because these 4 passives aren’t useful (except for water slightly and earth a little bit) and you would need to invest 5 points into every traitline.

Solution: Make Lingering Elements work with ALL passive attunement based traits (including the 10% more dmg traits and piercing shards) but therefore change it, so only one attunement does linger —> you can be attuned to your current attunement and the one before for a certain duration (to make it balanced, I would suggest 3 seconds instead of 5)

Little maths: By dancing through your attunements, you could stack up your dmg (so it would fit the elementalist stance dance design perfectly) to a maximum of 20% additional dmg for 3 seconds, 30% additional dmg when entering or leaving water attunement for 3 seconds and 10% additional dmg in only those attunements where you are using the certain traits.

Class feeling/Personal thoughts: This way, lingering elements would allow us to create a true elementalists combining the forces of his attunements – for example water+air, fire+earth etc. I would just love that. It gives us a little possibility to specialize without getting rid of the class mechanic. As well Lingering elements wouldn’t be mandatory for every elementalist build because you can only use it with 15 points in arcane, so you couldn’t get 2 grandmasters in your traitlines. You would need to make decisions.

I think endurance limit is good that ranger have. many people play as evasion ranger and this is a special gaming style & enjoy that only belongs to rangers. but this is not to say thats enough for ranger. Need more development either abilities defence or damage. This is the point that is missing about ranger class. the changes about power that as removed ednurance traits will not change anything. However ranger greatsword skills are completely useless i think. there are some signet trait to use active skills for yourself but signets are purposeless except signet of stone. I know you are aware many of these but i mean not little changes ranger need radical changes in this point.

And about game: i think need a good scoring point system(wvw,pvp,pve) yes i have extremeley amazing perfectly achievement point but anyone can’t see that out of near friends or rondomly groups. in there could be hourly little wars in a special maps as group of five or any that gives gold and varied reward and point,achiv,score. except of these, there need to fixing defects on armor appearance example; half of the my greatword looks like inside of my internal organs or hairs in my lungs. however there isn’t need to be red or blue color for appearance of player’ armors in spvp maps already we able to see enemy or friend tag on our heads.

these are my little opinions Thank you Anet.

How long is “kitten vigor”?

edit: 5s, thanks

Okay, the part about thieves getting kitten vigor is funny. :P

And overpowered.

Josh Davis.6015:

@Rangers/Guardians/Engineers/Necromancers

Just because Jon didn’t include any changes regarding your profession in the above post doesn’t mean we’re done making changes.

Please continue to leave feedback – we’re still listening. We’ll keep you updated as things come up.

Thanks!

Should the @Necromancers take this and Jon’s post as a “deal with it”?