Deflation of gold-to-gem [suggestion]
1 2
There is already a 15% conversion fee.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange
Here’s the specific text directly copy-pasted from the wiki:
- Transaction fee is a 15% fee for trading gems for gold or vice-versa. For example, exchanging 1 Gold coin gives 85 Silver coin worth of gems while reselling those gems returns only around 72 Silver coin 25 Copper coin, resulting in a net loss of roughly 28%
(edited by Silas Eorth.7348)
Thanks. Increased tax then
So you’re suggesting that people who convert high amounts of gems to gold get a tax reduction. Effectively they’d get more gold for the same amount of gems.
I agree that the right way to deflate the gold to gem ratio is to incentivise players to trade gems to gold. However just giving more gold per gem is not going to cut it. Why are so many people trading their gold for gems? Because you can only get the new skins and items for gems.
I think the solution to deflate the gold to gem ratio would be to introduce skins and convenience items that can be bought exclusively with gold. The gold to gem ratio will always shift to where the popular goods are. A tax reduction is not going to change this.
Edit: Ah, I got it the other way round. You’re actually suggesting to tax people who convert high amounts of gold to gems higher. People will just spread their conversion over a longer time span to avoid the extra taxes.
(edited by BunjiKugashira.9754)
There is already a 15% conversion fee.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange
Here’s the specific text directly copy-pasted from the wiki:
- Transaction fee is a 15% fee for trading gems for gold or vice-versa. For example, exchanging 1 Gold coin gives 85 Silver coin worth of gems while reselling those gems returns only around 72 Silver coin 25 Copper coin, resulting in a net loss of roughly 28%
That’s not what he’s asking for. That’s buying and then reselling gems (flipping). What he’s asking for is a direct tax on buying gems with gold if you buy greater than X amount of gems in a certain period of time. He wants to limit gold to gems purchases with this tax.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
We need John Smith on the case here! He’ll be able to tell us if it’d work out or not.
Blood & Merlot [Wine]
There is already a 15% conversion fee.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange
Here’s the specific text directly copy-pasted from the wiki:
- Transaction fee is a 15% fee for trading gems for gold or vice-versa. For example, exchanging 1 Gold coin gives 85 Silver coin worth of gems while reselling those gems returns only around 72 Silver coin 25 Copper coin, resulting in a net loss of roughly 28%
That’s not what he’s asking for. That’s buying and then reselling gems (flipping). What he’s asking for is a direct tax on buying gems with gold if you buy greater than X amount of gems in a certain period of time. He wants to limit gold to gems purchases with this tax.
Of course, I understand his original intent. And that the entirety of the section I provided does indeed apply to gem flippers. But even if one does not flip their gems, the 15% conversion fee still applies. Exactly what the first sentence in the bolded text states.
Tl;dr = There is already a tax on conversions. I’m not sure that adding an increased tax will be that well received by the rest of the community.
(edited by Silas Eorth.7348)
not sure if thats relevant here but in the last couple of months the exchange rate of gold to gems has become about 2 times more expensive, thats some sort of 3rd world country level of inflation right there so it looks like there happened some sort of currency exploit
Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide
There is already a 15% conversion fee.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange
Here’s the specific text directly copy-pasted from the wiki:
- Transaction fee is a 15% fee for trading gems for gold or vice-versa. For example, exchanging 1 Gold coin gives 85 Silver coin worth of gems while reselling those gems returns only around 72 Silver coin 25 Copper coin, resulting in a net loss of roughly 28%
That’s not what he’s asking for. That’s buying and then reselling gems (flipping). What he’s asking for is a direct tax on buying gems with gold if you buy greater than X amount of gems in a certain period of time. He wants to limit gold to gems purchases with this tax.
Of course, I understand his original intent. And that the entirety of the section I provided does indeed apply to gem flippers. But even if one does not flip their gems, the 15% conversion fee still applies. Exactly what the first sentence in the bolded text states.
Tl;dr = There is already a tax on conversions.
Re-reading that quote I realized that I don’t see where the 15% tax on buying gems with gold comes from. For example, if I buy 100 gems with 30 gold, where is the tax? It’s a straight purchase.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
not sure if thats relevant here but in the last couple of months the exchange rate of gold to gems has become about 2 times more expensive, thats some sort of 3rd world country level of inflation right there so it looks like there happened some sort of currency exploit
Take off the tin foil hat. The current exchange rate is simply what happens if you have two currencies that are exchangeable and only offer merchandise for one of them.
not sure if thats relevant here but in the last couple of months the exchange rate of gold to gems has become about 2 times more expensive, thats some sort of 3rd world country level of inflation right there so it looks like there happened some sort of currency exploit
Take off the tin foil hat. The current exchange rate is simply what happens if you have two currencies that are exchangeable and only offer merchandise for one of them.
the fact that the exchange rate was moving slowly for several years and then jumped so high without any real changes all the while Anet constantly keeps adding some sort of money sinks in the game is not something normal
and if you think that a mmorpg having dupes/exploits is so unlikely than you call suspecting it a tin foil hat case im afraid you’re in for a whole world of disappointment in your future gaming activity, babe
Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide
not sure if thats relevant here but in the last couple of months the exchange rate of gold to gems has become about 2 times more expensive, thats some sort of 3rd world country level of inflation right there so it looks like there happened some sort of currency exploit
Take off the tin foil hat. The current exchange rate is simply what happens if you have two currencies that are exchangeable and only offer merchandise for one of them.
the fact that the exchange rate was moving slowly for several years and then jumped so high without any real changes all the while Anet constantly keeps adding some sort of money sinks in the game is not something normal
and if you think that a mmorpg having dupes/exploits is so unlikely than you call suspecting it a tin foil hat case im afraid you’re in for a whole world of disappointment in your future gaming activity, babe
The last drop in exchange rate is around the time HoT was released. That’s most likely because of Guild Halls draining a lot of gold. Since January the exchange rate has been steadily increasing. It started rapidly increasing around the end of April. That’s when the account wide inventory slot was introduced, which is undeniably a topseller.
Edit: My bad, the inventory slot was released in January with a maximum of 5 buyable slots per account and was increased to 10 buyable slots per account in April.
(edited by BunjiKugashira.9754)
I mean increase it to something like 30% and higher if they reach different volumes of exchanges within a stretch of time.
Decreasing gem to gold taxes would inflate available gold and further decrease it’s value. Not to mention increasing sources of gold (from rewards or whatever) deflates it’s value overall in the game in general.
not sure if thats relevant here but in the last couple of months the exchange rate of gold to gems has become about 2 times more expensive, thats some sort of 3rd world country level of inflation right there so it looks like there happened some sort of currency exploit
Take off the tin foil hat. The current exchange rate is simply what happens if you have two currencies that are exchangeable and only offer merchandise for one of them.
the fact that the exchange rate was moving slowly for several years and then jumped so high without any real changes all the while Anet constantly keeps adding some sort of money sinks in the game is not something normal
and if you think that a mmorpg having dupes/exploits is so unlikely than you call suspecting it a tin foil hat case im afraid you’re in for a whole world of disappointment in your future gaming activity, babe
They started reintroducing items to the gem store that people have long wanted as well as picked up on sales and introductions for new items. There is no currency exploit.
Wouldn’t purchasers of gems with gold simply buy the same number of gems but space the purchases to avoid the tax? Considering that high gold to gems also means high real money gems to gold, wouldn’t doing anything that lowers gems to gold be a discentive to people spending real money for gems to get gold and therefore hurt both the real money gem buyers and ANet’s profits?
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
Server: Devona’s Rest
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Server: Devona’s Rest
I think the problem is a shortage of gems rather than a surplus of gold. The gem shop has had a succession of particularly desirable items in recent months so anyone buying gems with RL $$$ are spending the gems in the shop rather then selling them for gold. I bet the resident economist is loving it!
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
I think there’s a pretty strong correlation between gem to gold prices and the 2G daily.
If Anet doesn’t like the inflation, they can tweak it and let the invisible hand work.
1) The whole assumption of this post is that a few individuals are causing the gem price (in gold) to spike. Otherwise, increasing the tax on them isn’t going to do anything.
2) Many people in this thread are saying that the price is spiking because more people have gold because everyone is getting 2g for dailies.
But if prices are going up because of the 2g dailies, then the proposed solution wouldn’t do anything other than annoy people. Even if it weren’t for the 2g, I don’t see how the OP’s suggestion would do a lot. I see that a lot — suggestions that don’t actually fix the problem they are trying to solve.
I think there’s a pretty strong correlation between gem to gold prices and the 2G daily.
If Anet doesn’t like the inflation, they can tweak it and let the invisible hand work.
No, the price started rising well before the 2g dailies.
To help reduce general gold-to-gem-conversion inflation add a small percentage tax fee to conversions if a player exceeds a certain high total amount in conversions within a week. This would reduce conversions from high volume converters to help deflate prices for other players.
What do players think about this tax fee for conversions?
The question is what incentive Anet would have to do it. A lower conversion rate devalues their micro-transaction currency (gems), so from a business point of view, its nonsense.
There are also easier ways for Anet to decrease the conversion rate, if they would want to do it.
They could, for example, simply send 1000 gems to every account, which wouldnt be a great business decision either.
A better idea would be to offer deluxe versions of the next expac, which includes a bunch of gems at a discounted price, like they have done with HoT.
The gem exchange wasnt primarily put into the game to please players that would like to get gem store purchases at a low gold cost, disregarding in game gold inflation.
The way its set up it reflects supply and demand for gold and gems perfectly and also functions as a gold sink.
It acts as a temporary gold storage/faucet as well. If gold is in demand again (like after HoT), plenty of players will exchange their gems to gold again, bringing gold that was stored in the exchange back into the game economy as disposable income.
I dont know, why you would want to mess with that.
Apart from that, I dont think it will have too much of an impact anyways.
It would basically be an extra gold sink from people, who buy lots of gems with gold on a regular basis, which means they have plenty of gold anyways and i doubt this will stop them from buying as much gems as they need/want.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
here is my suggestion : give an account a quota like 2000 gems which reset per 3 months, should one exceed their quota the number of gold needed to exchange with gem will be increased for 50% until their quota has been resetted, quota can be resetted early if they trade gems to gold the same amount for example 2000 gems for x amount of gold.
(edited by ardhikaizecson.3697)
The current exchange rate is simply what happens if you have two currencies that are exchangeable and only offer merchandise for one of them.
This is a big part of what is going on. The only way to get gem store items is with gems. So you either pay cash for them or trade in game gold. Once you hit a certain point in the game there is not much to spend gold on since the majority of things added to the game(like skins) are added to the gem store. So you end up with gems slowly inflating.
That is not to say arenanet doesn’t manipulate the exchange rate but I think they like where it is at right now as it makes buying gems the more attractive option.
here is my suggestion : give an account a quota like 2000 gems which reset per 3 months, should one exceed their quota the number of gold needed to exchange with gem will be increased for 50% until their quota has been resetted, quota can be resetted early if they trade gems to gold the same amount for example 2000 gems for x amount of gold.
In other words, limit how many gems you can buy with gold and force people to buy with real money if they want more than 2000 gems in 3 months?
My guess is if ANet started forcing people to buy gems with real money if they want more than 2000 gems every 3 months then the forums would explode in outrage.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
The question is what incentive Anet would have to do it. A lower conversion rate devalues their micro-transaction currency (gems), so from a business point of view, its nonsense.
There are also easier ways for Anet to decrease the conversion rate, if they would want to do it.
They could, for example, simply send 1000 gems to every account, which wouldnt be a great business decision either.
A better idea would be to offer deluxe versions of the next expac, which includes a bunch of gems at a discounted price, like they have done with HoT.
The gem exchange wasnt primarily put into the game to please players that would like to get gem store purchases at a low gold cost, disregarding in game gold inflation.
The way its set up it reflects supply and demand for gold and gems perfectly and also functions as a gold sink.
It acts as a temporary gold storage/faucet as well. If gold is in demand again (like after HoT), plenty of players will exchange their gems to gold again, bringing gold that was stored in the exchange back into the game economy as disposable income.I dont know, why you would want to mess with that.
Apart from that, I dont think it will have too much of an impact anyways.
It would basically be an extra gold sink from people, who buy lots of gems with gold on a regular basis, which means they have plenty of gold anyways and i doubt this will stop them from buying as much gems as they need/want.
^^^^
You guys are asking for something that has 0% chance of happening. I am sure the gemstore has more metrics than every other part of the game added together. Arenanet knows what is happening with the gold/gem exchange and it is where they want it.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
So yes, some individuals now have more gold (aproximately 85% of the items value they traded + copper/silver/gold gained from the events and vendoring valuesless items) and a just as big faction of buyers is ownes items they bought minus 100% of the gold they spent.
Still leaves the game economy at:
15% trade tax – gold influx = increase or decrease in overall gold (99% likely decrease if one compares some numbers)
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading fees
To argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
There is already a 15% conversion fee.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange
Here’s the specific text directly copy-pasted from the wiki:
- Transaction fee is a 15% fee for trading gems for gold or vice-versa. For example, exchanging 1 Gold coin gives 85 Silver coin worth of gems while reselling those gems returns only around 72 Silver coin 25 Copper coin, resulting in a net loss of roughly 28%
That’s out of date — they modified the rate (and I’m not sure why — it was never announced). Near as I can tell now, 33% net (for both directions), which is an implied fee of 18% in each direction (there’s no way for us to measure the one-way fees).
The wiki hasn’t been updated because (again, near as I can tell), hardly anyone noticed this.
I did the calculation by periodically running the API for both rates as nearly simultaneously as I can without writing a program to do so. The sites that track the rates don’t seem to track the round trip loss.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
EDIT:
I’m taking this from a website as it explains what I’m going towards in a clearer manner
It all depends on what you mean by inflation and by money supply. Technical questions and answers need specific definitions, otherwise everyone ends up talking at cross-purposes.
Is it possible to have an increase in general price levels without any changes to the amount of money in circulation? Yes: if the velocity of circulation of money increases, and the amount of goods and services available to buy does not increase by as much.
Is it possible to have an increase in general price levels without any changes to the amount of money in circulation or the velocity of circulation? Yes: if the amount of goods and services available to buy, decreases, so that there’s more money chasing fewer goods.
Is it possible to have an increase in general price levels without any changes to the amount of money in circulation or the velocity of circulation, and with no decrease in the amount of goods and services available to buy? Yes, if the demand curve changes so that the same amount of money is now used to buy a smaller quantity of stuff at higher prices.
Is it possible to have an increase in general price levels without any changes to the amount of money in circulation or the velocity of circulation, and with no change in the amount of goods and services bought? No, because the velocity of circulation is by definition total transaction value divided by the amount of money in circulation, so if velocity, quantity and money supply are constant, then prices must be too, because total transaction value equals prices times quantity.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
In other words, limit how many gems you can buy with gold and force people to buy with real money if they want more than 2000 gems in 3 months?
My guess is if ANet started forcing people to buy gems with real money if they want more than 2000 gems every 3 months then the forums would explode in outrage.
Indeed.
Plus, as others have stated, it won’t have the impact the OP is expecting.
The fact is: there’s nothing fundamentally bad about a high gold:gem rate — the problem is that the current rate caught us all by surprise. It’s been surprisingly low and stable at 17-20g for so long, we forgot it was increasing steadily (including in major spikes) since the game launched.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
To help reduce general gold-to-gem-conversion inflation add a small percentage tax fee to conversions if a player exceeds a certain high total amount in conversions within a week. This would reduce conversions from high volume converters to help deflate prices for other players.
What do players think about this tax fee for conversions?
So you want to hurt the people who fund the game so you can exchange gold to gems at better rates?
New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.
How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?
Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a increasing inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.
How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).
Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.
Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.
How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).
Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.
Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.
Login rewards do change the money supply since anything you get via login rewards needs to go through the TP to generate gold.
In order to look for sources of inlfation I’d rather look at the big picture isntead of focusing on a minority of players who are better off thanks to a farm. The GW2 market is to big for such a small amount of players having an impact. Now having hundreds of thousands of players competing for something on th market with 2g more in their pocket…
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.
How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).
Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.
Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.
Login rewards do change the money supply since anything you get via login rewards needs to go through the TP to generate gold.
In order to look for sources of inlfation I’d rather look at the big picture isntead of focusing on a minority of players who are better off thanks to a farm. The GW2 market is to big for such a small amount of players having an impact. Now having hundreds of thousands of players competing for something on th market with 2g more in their pocket…
The TP does not generate gold. Generating gold is gold that is newly added to the game.
Also, the 60G you get a month only translates to about 184 gems at the current rate. How many items cost that low? Players are using cobsiderably much more gold obtains from other sources which are primarily farms that don’t generate gold.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.
How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).
Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.
Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.
Login rewards do change the money supply since anything you get via login rewards needs to go through the TP to generate gold.
In order to look for sources of inlfation I’d rather look at the big picture isntead of focusing on a minority of players who are better off thanks to a farm. The GW2 market is to big for such a small amount of players having an impact. Now having hundreds of thousands of players competing for something on th market with 2g more in their pocket…
Something that ANet said makes me think Ayrilana has a very good point.
ANet said that the reason that they were giving all accounts 2 gold a day is because there was a big disparity between the top gold makers and the mass of the player base. They said that the top % was making so much gold so efficiently that they were driving inflation by their ability to bid how much they want on what they want.
2 gold for dailies
ANet ProbablyJohnSmith
We felt we had some room for increasing player income without risking major problems. That said, we’ll keep a close eye on the progression over time, there are lots of options for fixing imbalances if they’re needed.
Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet
Of course we’re also adding gold back to dungeons today, with the new repeatable achievement. But I’ll directly tackle your question. Most wealth in the game is generated by people who are very proficient at generating wealth. They can bid a lot for what they want, because they have a lot of gold, and that process drives inflation. Meanwhile the broader player base is just getting by. So we keep a close eye on how much gold can be generated from extreme farming, but at the same time try to provide a decent income to normal players.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
Rather than ANet cutting its own throat by implementing the OP’s suggestion, perhaps the OP might consider a more realistic solution. Stop being part of the cause of the increase in the gold-to-gems conversion ratio by spending real cash to get gems. Of course, he won’t do that. The motivation for such requests is the desire to get what the player wants without having to spend real money and without having to farm as much.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.
How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).
Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.
Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.
Login rewards do change the money supply since anything you get via login rewards needs to go through the TP to generate gold.
In order to look for sources of inlfation I’d rather look at the big picture isntead of focusing on a minority of players who are better off thanks to a farm. The GW2 market is to big for such a small amount of players having an impact. Now having hundreds of thousands of players competing for something on th market with 2g more in their pocket…
The TP does not generate gold. Generating gold is gold that is newly added to the game.
Also, the 60G you get a month only translates to about 184 gems at the current rate. How many items cost that low? Players are using cobsiderably much more gold obtains from other sources which are primarily farms that don’t generate gold.
I did not intend to imply that it was likely that every player is converting their 2G/day into gems. What I meant was this:
If you have 2G/day times 1 million players, that’s 2,000,000G/day.
That 2,000,000G/day is then changing hands on the TP (since the players have more gold to trade for items, they WILL trade more gold for items) and THEN once it collects in a large enough sum in the hands of a smaller subset of players, traded in for gems.
The influx of gold is coalescing in the accounts of players who are using the TP more effectively, and once they gather enough they convert it into gems which drives up the exchange.
Server: Devona’s Rest
To help reduce general gold-to-gem-conversion inflation add a small percentage tax fee to conversions if a player exceeds a certain high total amount in conversions within a week. This would reduce conversions from high volume converters to help deflate prices for other players.
What do players think about this tax fee for conversions?
…
They could, for example, simply send 1000 gems to every account, which wouldnt be a great business decision either.
A better idea would be to offer deluxe versions of the next expac, which includes a bunch of gems at a discounted price, like they have done with HoT.
…
Actually, ANet did do this once before when they created the Achievement Rewards at the per 5K/tier and added major chests at appropriate tiers that gave the account free gems. You can still get these in game. When it first happened, a large amount of the player base basically got 400-1200 of free gems about a year after release. This held the conversion probably artificially low for quite a while.
But you are right, I think this is a slow play to add a BIG discount for $ to gems to gold conversion factor. i.e. when gem-to-gold goes really high, offer a gem discount sale for something like 1600 gems for $10 (instead of 800 gems for $10) to encourage massive in-game gold inflation from conversion. It’ll self-regulate back down to a reasonable level but it’ll bring massive dollars to ANet short-term before they add a ton of gold sinks back into the economy. The PR side of ANet will spin this that it was needed because they added the 2 gold/day and now need to reregulate but that will be a small percentage of the true gold inflation coming out of the “gem&gold” piggy bank.
Also, these sales might come in several forms (like a new expansion or as a new sale type) and probably not nearly as a 2:1 sale, more likely at a “get a free 10%” at first…then hey, check it out, we now offer 25% more, now 50% more…
(edited by Artaz.3819)
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.
How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).
Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.
Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.
Login rewards do change the money supply since anything you get via login rewards needs to go through the TP to generate gold.
In order to look for sources of inlfation I’d rather look at the big picture isntead of focusing on a minority of players who are better off thanks to a farm. The GW2 market is to big for such a small amount of players having an impact. Now having hundreds of thousands of players competing for something on th market with 2g more in their pocket…
The TP does not generate gold. Generating gold is gold that is newly added to the game.
Also, the 60G you get a month only translates to about 184 gems at the current rate. How many items cost that low? Players are using cobsiderably much more gold obtains from other sources which are primarily farms that don’t generate gold.
I’m fully aware the TP does not generate gold. It does take tax though and thus removes gold from the economy when you sell those items you gained through the login rewards. Hence login rewards if used for gold gain have an effect on the gold supply. Poor wording on my part, but should have been obvious from the context provided.
I also never said the daily gold increase was the only reason for inflation. I did mention some of the other simultanious gold increases which arenaet reimplemented.
None of those things provide a basis for the assumption though that AB farm creates an increase in inflation.
The exchange is definitely being impacted by the massive influx of raw gold that came about with the daily gold addition and the repeatable dungeon gold rewards.
Lots of extra currency hitting EVERY player’s account means that every player has more gold to spend on gems. With more gold available to be spent on gems, the supply of gems goes down which makes each additional gem more expensive.
The fact that they are also keeping a constant supply of new items in the Gem Store means that demand is also high.
The AB farm is probably playing a larger role in this than the 2G as it provides players with more access to gold. Not saying that only just one is contributing as there’s multiple factors going on.
The AB farm allows a minority of players who are participating to accumulate gold, but it doesn’t generate much new gold.
The new gold entering the game (via the 2G daily and dungeon gold achieve) is enabling those AB farmers to accumulate gold at a faster rate because all players now have more gold to spend on the things the AB farmers are listing for sale. This may enable them to do more gold to gem conversions, but it also allows all players to do gold to gem conversions too since all players now have more gold on hand.
Inflation isn’t caused solely by new currency being created. .
Actually, increase in currency is most often a major factor in inflation. Granted not the sole one, but between more gold through dailies (which is a direct increase in liquid gold generated) and gold redistribution through the trading post (which is mostly what AB farmers do) the dailies definately have a bigger effect.
My opinion is that the AB farm, and other things of the same nature, are having more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. While 2G may seem like a lot across the entire playerbase, it’s nothing to an account. A single instance of AB farming greatly outweighs this on an individual account level.
A single instance of AB farm generates such a huge quantity in traded commodities that the trading fees alone on the TP easily create a negative gold balance for the general economy.
And as I said in a subsequent post, inflation is not caused just by changes in the money supply. You could have inflation caused by an increase in the velocity of the circulation of the currency with the money supply at a constant for example.
True, but between both those examples, it is highly unlikely that the AB farm has that big of an negative effect (if at all) on current inflation.
On the contrary, the AB farm produces:
- ressources
- gold drain via trading feesTo argue it might have a big increasing effect on current inflation is stretching it, even if circulation and accumulation might factor in.
It would have more of an impact than the 2G from the daily. I’m not suggesting that it is the only cause.
I doubt that but you are entitled to your opinion.
Think of it this way: if half the active player base have 30 accounts, they can make 2K gold every 28 days from the login rewards. No gold is actually created in the system, only shifted between players. What impact do you think those players would have on the price level for various items?
I might as well point out that the reality of half the player base having 30 accounts is not the point.
We weren’t talking about login rewards, but daily gold reward which is straight up 2g.
How big a percentage of the playerbase is actively does AB farming?
How many players do dailies?
Which are the direct effects on the gold supply of both activities before checking for possible secondary effects?
What is the effect of both activities on supply of ressources?Yes, the AB farm is a great ressource generator and thus allows a minor fraction of the playersbase to acumulate big amounts of gold. Still in the big picture, it’s insignificant from a negative inflation perspective, especially compared to direct gold rewards added with dailies, increased gold via fractals, increased gold from dungeons (again).
Login rewards was also not the point… It was simply being used as an example of players generating incoming which does not involve changing the money supply.
Look at how much you make from the dailies. Do you honestly believe that a player will make enough from the dailies to cover the cost, or a significant portion of the cost, for exchanging gold to gems to purchase a given item? You make 60G a month from dailies which is a drop in the bucket compared to various farms such as AB.
Login rewards do change the money supply since anything you get via login rewards needs to go through the TP to generate gold.
In order to look for sources of inlfation I’d rather look at the big picture isntead of focusing on a minority of players who are better off thanks to a farm. The GW2 market is to big for such a small amount of players having an impact. Now having hundreds of thousands of players competing for something on th market with 2g more in their pocket…
The TP does not generate gold. Generating gold is gold that is newly added to the game.
Also, the 60G you get a month only translates to about 184 gems at the current rate. How many items cost that low? Players are using cobsiderably much more gold obtains from other sources which are primarily farms that don’t generate gold.
I’m fully aware the TP does not generate gold. It does take tax though and thus removes gold from the economy when you sell those items you gained through the login rewards. Hence login rewards if used for gold gain have an effect on the gold supply.
I also never said the daily gold increase was the only reason for inflation. I did mention some of the other simultanious gold increases which arenaet reimplemented.
None of those things provide a basis for the assumption though that AB farm creates an increase in inflation.
I’m glad you’re aware as the phrasing gave me the indication of the opposite. Yes, proceeds for the items sold on the TP are taxed.
You’re still stuck on inflation being simply caused by changes in the money supply which isn’t true. Farms like map rewards, AB, nodes, and so on generate wealth for players without generating actual gold into the system. If enough players do this to to exceed the rate that supply replenishes for various items, prices will go up. I’ve said this multiple times already.
Increase the money supply is not the only way to cause inflation. There are other ways which generate wealth for players allowing them to do that. Most gold in players possession is likely from gold obtained via other players (TP) than directly from gold rewards.
Just look at my previous example of 60 gold only equaling 184 gems. Since most items cost around 800 gems, the vast majority of the gold is likely earned from other sources such as the farms I mentioned. Those clearly outweigh how much someone earns directly with gold.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
Meh.
Gem prices might be higher, but gold is easier to get. I seem to have doubled my gold since the gem spike, so my purchasing power remains around the same.
However, various costs remain fixed such as waypoints, gathering tools, or salvaging. Those prices haven’t changed in the longest time and I don’t know anyone who would want them to be more expensive to keep up with inflation. So naturally everyone will get more gold over time. Now before you laugh at WP costs being a drop in the bucket, be aware in the first year or two in this game, we had much QQ over waypoint costs to the point it was making people broke or something while people were arguing over the ethics of using the mists to go back to LA and bypass wp fees.
And I don’t know about anyone else, but I didn’t complain when they’re handing me 2g per daily. That’s an additional 800 gem purchase every 4 months.
Of course, this tends to help the people who make the least gold. Someone who just makes 50s a day and does dailies will see a massive increase in their ability to purchase over time. But if you made 100g a day to begin with you see the gem prices double, it does get frustrating.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
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