Guild Wars 2

Some thoughts I’d like to add to the discussion.

Let’s start with the quite obvious : guardian was designed as a fusion of the monk, the paragon and the dervish with all religious elements stripped away to make it compatible with agnostic playable races of GW2.

In terms of roles, the guardian is well suited for the support role with shouts (paragon) and the bruiser that uses boons (dervish) and the altruistic healing thing (monk… somehow).

So far, the dervish is covered.

Now let’s look at the less obvious : the guardian works well when you pile up as much boons as possible. The more the better. The class mechanic is the timed use of virtues to change the flow of battle.

In GW1, the dervish worked well when you timed your flash enchantments well and wisely fuel your tear down skill with the right enchantment at the right time. That is a much more subtle way of approaching things. You have to manage two things (flash enchantments and tear downs) instead of one (virtues).

Also the dervish had a nice emphasis on elemental and holy damage, which would translate in GW2 as condition damage (i.e damage that ignore armour). AFAIK, the guardian in incapable of dealing decent condition damage.

Boons are like the opposition of conditions (duh! >_< ) and NOT the translation of enchantments from GW1 to GW2. There is actually no equivalent mechanic in GW2 of something that has an effect only when added and removed and not effect in between(bar aegis).

Conclusion : As long as boons are the only available buffs of GW2, there is no gameplay room for a dervish like class. As soon as we get feeders for buffing ourselves, a mystic scyte using class can be considered.

However, NEVER expect the dervish to make it to GW2 as a copy paste of GW1. A dervish in GW1 is a human centered class. To survive in GW2, it means we’ll have to remove all gods avatars and all religious references.

For those who never played GW1 : Dervish gameplay explained

The main attribs of a dervish boiled down to the cleave mechanic and an energy-based frontline with on-demand high-critting attacks, coupled by slightly lower base armor, a buttload of spammable enchantments, and their class specialty, the avatars (who were ridiculously broken for quite some time, and quite a few remain strong to this day…in particular in pve where cleave is king). Due to how strong it is/was for a skill input and effort far lower compared to the primary frontline class (the warrior), it is commonly referred to as ‘the poor man’s way to warrior’.

Given how everyone and their mum have the ability/option to do cleave damage on GW2 (ok, aside from the necro), and there is no concept of energy anymore, the derv would barely qualify even as a filler profession, and then there are the numerous religious elements, as noted above.

Brother Grimm.5176:

I think the last thing we will ever see from future content is new player classes (and I could be totally wrong).

I think the Dev team learned a lesson with the introduction of new classes with GW1 and that situation will not be repeated.

I would like to think that this is true but I’m not so sure. A large problem with the introduction of the 4 last professions in GW1 was that they tried too hard to make them different from the rest, and the special mechanics they thought up just didn’t mesh with the pre-existing (quite carefully crafted) ones.
They’ve done the exact same thing with GW2 from the very beginning by prioritizing archetypes (or profession “identities” if you will) over combat design as a whole.
In the current state of the game you wouldn’t really ruin the “balance” by introducing a new profession because it’s already a mess of random “this would be cool”-things.

From a lore perspective, whether there are any humans left in Elona is hard to say considering Palawa Joko is pretty much jacked up that continent. As far as anyone knows it could be a nation of undead. The Sunspears are gone, so who knows whether there is any of the paragon and dervish heritage left.

Personally, I didn’t like the dervishes so much. Their playstyle was ok, but the way they were presented was what I didn’t like so I got one to about lvl 6 then abandoned her.

If a new class were to be created, I’d like to see a master of two handed weaponry. Spears, polearms, great axes, halberds, that sort of thing. Maybe backed up with throwing daggers. Not just something to satisfy the nostalgics

Hoping to visit Elona and then recruited Dervish and Paragon back to us!!! <33
Same for Cantha, let’s recruit Ritualist!!!!!

Alga.6498:

Hoping to visit Elona and then recruited Dervish and Paragon back to us!!! <33
Same for Cantha, let’s recruit Ritualist!!!!!

Nah! Dervish can be considered. Paragons however are already a dead horse.

The entire idea of a paragon is class whose strenght lies in the numbers of its allies. A lonely paragon is an ineffective liability. A paragon in a zerg is a god of war. Think about the balancing nightmare.

Since a large chunck of GW2 PvE is based around single player, a paragon would have no place.

TL;DR : cross fingers for dervish, don’t even think about paragons.

Even in GW1 this class was terrible as a concept.

If someday Anet adds sub/ advanced classes to GW2, I hope each subclass has its own, unique profession mechanic.

The cool thing about professions like dervish and paragon, and if we look at other games, the cool thing behind many of the classes/ champions/ heroes in mmorpgs/ mobas, is their unique game mechanics.

FFXIV, for example, added a Ninja job with an unique Ninjutsu mechanic, where skill input order determines the effect. This is completely unlike any other skill in that game.

GW2’s professions fill most of the archetypes, but their core F1-F4 gameplay mechanics are just a small sample of the endless possibilities that could be designed. For that reason, it would be interesting to see Anet to think of a lot of new core mechanics, especially when some existing ones are as boring as signet-shouts (I’m looking at you, virtues).

Xenon.4537:

sorudo.9054:

Xenon.4537:

sorudo.9054:

No Walking.6349:

fireflyry.7023:

Rits plz.

kthx

The role of Rits is pretty covered by Engis. Almost exactly.

erm no, not even close.
engi’s are more a different sub class, rit’s buff allies, heals allies, supports allies and does massive damage.
engi’s however are more the stationary attackers with self made backup, that’s about it.
they are children in terms of DMG compare to a rit, not to mention how well rits are made to have total CC throughout the whole battle field, something the engi can only dream of having.

maybe they seem the same because they can make turrets but they are miles apart from even imitating rit’s.

Are you playing the same engineer class I am? Because my engie can do all those things…

so they can buff the weapons of other characters, heal from a distance, do massive damage (equal to that if an ele), it’s able to support allies, enhance condition effects?
i am a GW veteran, i know the difference….

Engies can share buffs by throwing elixirs and deploying traited turrets. It’s not the same as weapon spells, granted, but this is GW2 not GW1. The mechanics are quite different. Engies can also support allies with combo fields, supply drop, and thrown elixirs. Engineers are extremely powerful condition dealers, so idk where you got that from. And have you ever used an HGH or Static Discharge build? Engies can deal a kitten-load of epic damage…

spirits can do what engi’s need to do on their own, this already puts the rit on top of better buffer in general.
also, kits take away your focus on attacks, spirits can do that without even looking twice, they can also do massive damage while you as player do even more damage while using the spirits at your own advantage.
for instance, take a simple spirit like pain and use spirit burn, all of a sudden the enemy is burning while your spirit just attacks on.
can the engi get even close?
nope, not even remotely close, even with turrets they lack combo’s entirely.
not to mention the amount of direct healing they can do, direct buffs they can do and direct partly armor ignoring damage they can do, and all that without a stupid kit changing your build.

oh and yes, i have an engi but can’t stand kits, all i use are turrets but without weapon switch it’s really annoying. (they really should allow weapon switch when not using kits)

DiogoSilva.7089:

If someday Anet adds sub/ advanced classes to GW2, I hope each subclass has its own, unique profession mechanic.

The cool thing about professions like dervish and paragon, and if we look at other games, the cool thing behind many of the classes/ champions/ heroes in mmorpgs/ mobas, is their unique game mechanics.

FFXIV, for example, added a Ninja job with an unique Ninjutsu mechanic, where skill input order determines the effect. This is completely unlike any other skill in that game.

GW2’s professions fill most of the archetypes, but their core F1-F4 gameplay mechanics are just a small sample of the endless possibilities that could be designed. For that reason, it would be interesting to see Anet to think of a lot of new core mechanics, especially when some existing ones are as boring as signet-shouts (I’m looking at you, virtues).

The topic is interesting :

Classes in GW1 had really deep class mechanics (ashes, attacks combos, feeders, adrenaline, overcast etc…)

Keep in mind that these mechanics suffered from two major problems :

• They were not uniform in their implementation meaning that sub-profession was a mess to balance
• They almost all boiled down to energy management whereas in GW2, mechanics have very different goals.

However, I do like the idea of customising each class unique mechanic.

About FFXIV : assassins in factions worked exactly the same way as ninjas in FFXIV. Nothing new under the sun.

i can already see iron legion charr dervishes running around in human god forms hahaahhahahaahahhahahah

Zeivu.3615:

Why are charr able to raise dead and create clones? Are those not based on human gods?

Actually, it was explained. They can use human magic, because they made the pact with the Titans (and thus, with Abaddon – the same god that originally bestowed magic to humans). Before that they did not have any magic of their own (which is one of the reasons why they lost Ascalon to humans). Of course that part of the Charr history no longer makes sense (see retcons ;p).

Why can’t some people from the other races worship the human gods…just asking.

what about giving scythe to guardian or necro(mostly necro)? new weapons are overdue anyway.

I’d like to see dervish added to ele, since they’d have to add a lot of skins and whatnot to make a scythe weapon, maybe make it so the staff has a weapon swap which adds the scythe blade kind of like the necro does. It would give the ele an actual melee ability and could have a long cd or ooc weapon switch.

No Walking.6349:

My main in GW1 was Dervish, I know the playstyle well. Building up enchantments, then removing them to cause damage and effects. Evoking power of the gods (or alchemy elements) to help in battle. This isn’t already covered by any other class in GW2.

GW2’s style of the dervish would be building boons and revoking them for damage. Which is harder to do than GW1’s achievements because unlike GW2, GW1 had multiple kinds of benefiting conditions (enchantments, spirit weapons, etc.) as well sa multiple kinds of negative effects (hexes, conditions). So unlike in GW1, there’s a lot more ways to shut down a dervish style build, making the profession a lot harder to make without being imbalanced (no boon stripping foes? overpowered; boon stripping foes? underpowered).

Though perhaps a self-boon-stripping/opponent-condition-stripping combo in dervish would help keep it balanced if done right?

The whole god thing can be removed entirely from gameplay, as it is lore, and the profession called – and look like – something else entirely – just have the same gameplay focus as dervishes (similar to thieves and assassins, or guardians and paragons/monks). The dervish god-related skills are already partially part of the human racials anyways.

And by removing it from the lore, I don’t mean a retcon, so much as that the profession we have would not have modern ties to the gods – maybe historical ties that got changed and now the profession doesn’t call on anything.

sorudo.9054:

Xenon.4537:

sorudo.9054:

Xenon.4537:

sorudo.9054:

No Walking.6349:

fireflyry.7023:

Rits plz.

kthx

The role of Rits is pretty covered by Engis. Almost exactly.

erm no, not even close.
engi’s are more a different sub class, rit’s buff allies, heals allies, supports allies and does massive damage.
engi’s however are more the stationary attackers with self made backup, that’s about it.
they are children in terms of DMG compare to a rit, not to mention how well rits are made to have total CC throughout the whole battle field, something the engi can only dream of having.

maybe they seem the same because they can make turrets but they are miles apart from even imitating rit’s.

Are you playing the same engineer class I am? Because my engie can do all those things…

so they can buff the weapons of other characters, heal from a distance, do massive damage (equal to that if an ele), it’s able to support allies, enhance condition effects?
i am a GW veteran, i know the difference….

Engies can share buffs by throwing elixirs and deploying traited turrets. It’s not the same as weapon spells, granted, but this is GW2 not GW1. The mechanics are quite different. Engies can also support allies with combo fields, supply drop, and thrown elixirs. Engineers are extremely powerful condition dealers, so idk where you got that from. And have you ever used an HGH or Static Discharge build? Engies can deal a kitten-load of epic damage…

spirits can do what engi’s need to do on their own, this already puts the rit on top of better buffer in general.
also, kits take away your focus on attacks, spirits can do that without even looking twice, they can also do massive damage while you as player do even more damage while using the spirits at your own advantage.
for instance, take a simple spirit like pain and use spirit burn, all of a sudden the enemy is burning while your spirit just attacks on.
can the engi get even close?
nope, not even remotely close, even with turrets they lack combo’s entirely.
not to mention the amount of direct healing they can do, direct buffs they can do and direct partly armor ignoring damage they can do, and all that without a stupid kit changing your build.

oh and yes, i have an engi but can’t stand kits, all i use are turrets but without weapon switch it’s really annoying. (they really should allow weapon switch when not using kits)

You DO know that the engies strongest attacks are with using kits? Grenade/vulnerability is stronger than any rifle or pistol based build if you set it up with the right traits.

And stationary? The engi is one of the most mobile classes in battle. I think you need to stray a bit away from turrets and learn how to chain skills with the different kits.

Dervish next class? Yes Plz

Well, they can always do the dervish like the ele and have F1-F4 to be diffirent enchantments…or avatarforms (Which would BE super kitten awesome).

There will be no new classes, why do you guys keep asking for that?
Meaningful content isn’t worth their time as long as people still waste money on gems to buy the kitten stuff they put out.

Sogradde.8016:

There will be no new classes, why do you guys keep asking for that?
Meaningful content isn’t worth their time as long as people still waste money on gems to buy the kitten stuff they put out.

They have stated that while no new classes or races are currently in the works, there is nothing to say others won’t be added at a later date. I won’t expect such occurrences to happen for at least another year.

What ever it is just make sure it doesn’t do condition dmg….

Zeivu.3615:

Sogradde.8016:

There will be no new classes, why do you guys keep asking for that?
Meaningful content isn’t worth their time as long as people still waste money on gems to buy the kitten stuff they put out.

They have stated that while no new classes or races are currently in the works, there is nothing to say others won’t be added at a later date. I won’t expect such occurrences to happen for at least another year.

And by “a later date” they mean “when nobody is buying gems anymore and we have to come up with new ideas to make money.”

Zeivu.3615:

Sogradde.8016:

There will be no new classes, why do you guys keep asking for that?
Meaningful content isn’t worth their time as long as people still waste money on gems to buy the kitten stuff they put out.

They have stated that while no new classes or races are currently in the works, there is nothing to say others won’t be added at a later date. I won’t expect such occurrences to happen for at least another year.

Let’s be realistic here. We haven’t even gotten the scavenger hunt or new legendaries, wich were both confirmed to appear yet.
They don’t care and they won’t start to care as long as they can squeeze out maximum money from minimal work.