Did GW2 lose its identity?
I dunno why there’s 14 pages of arguments over this. They added raids to the game to cater to those type of players, something which was not in the game for 4 years, that’s a change of identity of the original game concept.
They’re adding legendary armors just to those raids as a reward just like the legendary back pieces that require fractals or spvp, legendary weapons involved a little of all parts of the game but you did not require a group of 10 people to complete, that’s also a change to the original concept of legendaries.
Things change for games all the time, things get added or removed, what’s important is that game stays true to the original audience it was designed for. That game identity created from day one is what players bought the game for, if you turn around and try to cater for a different type of player that the game wasn’t even designed for, obviously not all your current players would be happy about it.
The first 8 months of the expansion was basically dedicated to the raids, the last 8 months have been for living story. In that you can see they’re creating content for both types of players, but other areas of the game suffers because anet does not multi task very well, hi wvw. Why weren’t both raids and living world done at the same time if the raid team is so small?
It’s obvious with the amount of work going into building legendary armors that raids are now a big part of gw2 going forward. I mean they won’t even make separate armor pieces for the gem store anymore, it’s all outfits they shove in there, but raid legendaries are going to be individual pieces and animated.
The original identity of gw2 has been chipped away at for a while now. But they’re heading down the direction of every other game with raids, you raid you get the coolest stuff in the game. If that’s the way they want to go for their end game, so be it, but I didn’t come to gw2 for raids, I left a game that had much more better options for raids to come play gw2 for wvw (one of those original audiences of gw2 being ignored).
Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
Do you have a source for the bolded or did you make it up?
You want me to link you NCSoft revenue page?
That would show the bottom line numbers, NOT the source for any of your claims. They are not one and the same. You can infer information out of the numbers, but anything else is just speculation.
Last time, anet mentioned they have two different teams working on living story, now I believe is only one. I also haven’t heard from the guild development team since their last post on guild hall statistic, maybe disbanded?
They have 3 teams working on Living Story. So far the first team has released episode 1 and 4, team 2 did Ember Bay and the upcoming episode, team 3 did Bitterfrost and episode 6 (if we get that far, which I believe we will).
If I remember correctly, they don’t have anyone working on guild specific enhancements, but I could be wrong.
That’s a lot of teams! So they abandon the guild development eh? Disappointing.
Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
And legendaries are a new equipment cap because they now have an increased quality of life over every other gear type. It is no longer “just a skin” it is now a must have because of both it’s higher than the casually acquireable exotic stats and the quality of life changing stats on the fly. Legendaries are objectively better because of the quality of life change.
Compared to legendaries, Ascended gear is “Casually Acquired”, and it has the same stats. And you can swap out the stats of Ascended gear nearly countless times (Or make multiple sets and buy a bank tab for regular stat-swaps) for the cost of a legendary.
I am noticing the same stuff happening with raids. You start playing on autopilot on the easier bosses.
I don’t see why this can’t be done by others.
If you can arrange that I can be raiding along with 9 compatible people a few minutes into my gaming session whenever I happen to find an opportunity to log on, I could probably do it. My skill level won’t be the problem.
The last Fractal update before Heart of Thorns was added on November 2013
Chaos Isles was added on July 2016, that’s 3 years of 0 Fractals. For an actual Fractal player the pace of Fractal releases now is amazing compared to what it used to be. You don’t compare fractals with raids, which is something completely different, but with fractals. And the pace of new fractal releases is absolutely great.They added 2 completely new Fractals, Chaos and Nightmare. They added a new version for Nightmare fractal (CM). They completely reworked Swampland and Thaumanova Fractals (they are like different Fractals now), they changed Snowblind drastically.
Don’t say that the Fractals team hasn’t been doing a good job because they are doing an amazing job. Also, you need to recall that Fractal releases started in July 2016, Raid releases started in November 2015, that’s a huge head start for the Raids. Since Fractals started releases we had 2+1 new and 3 greatly reworked Fractals versus 1 single Raid Wing. Again, you are devaluing the very important and great work the new Fractals team is doing.
For an actual Fractal player the pace of Fractal releases is mockery. They started to do something only after they realized how hard their shiny new raid-centered strategy backfired right into their core audience. Only then they made 2 fractals (out of already existing assets) and started to release LS3 chapters. And we still don’t have even a single brand new one fractal map (by “new” I mean made from zero, not reused old parts/models). Or fractal boss. Or even piece of fractal loot, outside of legendary backpack.
So you ignore the simple facts that Fractal release pace is faster than it has ever been in the past for the game called Guild Wars 2, that’s a proven fact and you can’t deny it calling it “mockery”. If the current pace is bad for you then why haven’t you quit the game in the last 3 years we got no fractal release at all? Where were you then? Oh right there were no Raids back then to be your one and only focus.
You also ignore the simple proof that we got 6 fractals over 1 raid wing, since fractal releases started. That’s huge. And what do re-used assets have to do with anything? The bosses and the re-worked encounters use completely new mechanics not found anywhere else in the game. That’s what counts, not the shiny textures and models.
And about fractal loot, fractals won’t get new loot, because of how their reward system is designed. Since you probably ignore, adding a new fractal is much more complicated process than adding a new Raid. This includes adding new rewards for them, since they need to be balanced for all current fractals.
Interesting. You and everyone you know stopped playing – but you still care enough to be on the games forums.
Yes, that’s the really sad part of the changes. Among People that left there were many that really cared about the game.
This got added with the introduction of ascended weapons, you are still four years too late. Switching stats without switching the rune or sigil is worthless most of the time.
This was a non-issue when weapons got it and now with armor it is evil?
Because, as has been alreadymentioned, the problem is not the armor, but it’s acquisition method.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
…
Its not like i don’t understand what it is that you want or disturbing you.
I tried showing you its not as bleek as it may feel to you.Gw2 is my first (and only real) mmorpg. So raiding here is my first experience with raids AT ALL. I played a lot at launch, then on and off for years and since HoT i have been playing almost everyday.
I didn’t start out as raider. It was difficult in the beginning but gets better and easier every week. The difficulties where almost the same ones i had when i started doing dungeons. With the difference that its harder to find 9 other guys instead of 4.
After doing dungeons a lot it almost became second nature. Skipping mobs, positioning, boss mechanics and so on. I am noticing the same stuff happening with raids. You start playing on autopilot on the easier bosses.
I don’t see why this can’t be done by others.
The difficulty of raids isn’t my problem. This is not my first MMO. It’s not my second MMO. It’s not my third MMO. This isn’t even my sixth MMO.
People who have played multiple MMOs over a long time might well have a better handle on what I’m saying.
It might even surprise you how many people came here to get away from raids or the type of content that is raids. It’s not just what raids are now at this second. It’s what raids do, eventually, to games and communities.
You surely must have seen game threads where the resistance to damage meters is quite high. There’s a reason for that. You’re from here, and this is your first experience. You haven’t burned out on that content yet.
Play MMOs for 10 years and you might have a different view than you have now. Raids are the kind of content that take over MMOs. There was room for MMO space for game that was different. And every step we take to add the things that make people like me less comfortable with the game, is one other thing that drives us to not like the game as much.
MMOs are like homes. We live in them. We spend hours, days, weeks and months in these places. We adopt them to become ours. This game used to be “my game”. That is, the decisions the devs made in releasing the game on launch was about 90% of everything I wanted in an MMO (with a few small omissions).
But as time goes on and the game starts to drift from that initial game, this game becomes less my home. I’m no longer the guy who does everything in the game, I do less. And as they add more and provide less of the other stuff, I do even less.
As there’s less for me to do, I’ll just move to the next game that comes out,. eventually, when I’ve done everything I want to do. For me that won’t be this year, or next year. Hell it might be never.
But I’ve moved on from MMOs before and I move on from them because their focus changes. What they offer changes.
And I’m a guy that puts up with a lot of change before I move. I promise you there are a lot of people who walked away from the game because it’s become less casual than it was…probably more people than people who are raiding now…in my opinion.
Games like this are a comfort zone for some people. You take them too far out of their comfort zone and you force them to rethink their bound with the game.
This isn’t about raids being too difficult. I CAN do raids. I can join a raiding guild and beat every boss, just like I beat every elite area in Guild Wars 1. Being a raid isn’t my issue.
Not enjoying raids, and seeing rewards I want locked behind them, that’s my issue.
Because, as has been alreadymentioned, the problem is not the armor, but it’s acquisition method.
Why is the acquisition a problem for the armor and not for the weapons and backpieces? They are also exclusive gated behind certain content.
Don’t start again with stat swap. The cases that someone build the item only for stat swap is extremly rare. People craft them for the skin.
…
I play MMOs now for over 10 years. I never experienced a takeover from raids. It was always pretty clear from the beginning that raids are the focus.
The raid system is different from other MMOs as we have a hard equipment cap.
It was also always clear that ArenaNet wants optional content for organised groups that can’t be cleared with your average PUG.
If you can arrange that I can be raiding along with 9 compatible people a few minutes into my gaming session whenever I happen to find an opportunity to log on, I could probably do it. My skill level won’t be the problem.
Unless you are a tank, this is also not existent in any other game that features easy modes and automated queues. Yet people find time to sit an hour in a queue but can’t be bothered with manual search.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Because, as has been alreadymentioned, the problem is not the armor, but it’s acquisition method.
Why is the acquisition a problem for the armor and not for the weapons and backpieces? They are also exclusive gated behind certain content.
Don’t start again with stat swap. The cases that someone build the item only for stat swap is extremly rare. People craft them for the skin.…
I play MMOs now for over 10 years. I never experienced a takeover from raids. It was always pretty clear from the beginning that raids are the focus.
The raid system is different from other MMOs as we have a hard equipment cap.It was also always clear that ArenaNet wants optional content for organised groups that can’t be cleared with your average PUG.
If you can arrange that I can be raiding along with 9 compatible people a few minutes into my gaming session whenever I happen to find an opportunity to log on, I could probably do it. My skill level won’t be the problem.
Unless you are a tank, this is also not existent in any other game that features easy modes and automated queues. Yet people find time to sit an hour in a queue but can’t be bothered with manual search.
I didn’t say or even imply a takeover system of raids. I’m saying most game are raid centric, but the raid community, like most communities, want more and more. When raids were brought up originally, many raiders so, no no, we just want challenging content. We don’t need exclusive rewards. Then they get harder content and now the song has changed. We’re doing the hardest content in the game we want those rewards. But raiders are always the loudest segment of the PvE population, so they keep getting more and more of what they want.
And the poor solo player working his way through Orr, he’s getting less and less because he doesn’t speak up and he’s never going to.
Devs need to understand that most of the people playing aren’t going to tell them what they want or don’t want. They’ll just play the game or leave the game…without a word spoken.
I dunno why there’s 14 pages of arguments over this. They added raids to the game to cater to those type of players, something which was not in the game for 4 years, that’s a change of identity of the original game concept.
They’re adding legendary armors just to those raids as a reward just like the legendary back pieces that require fractals or spvp, legendary weapons involved a little of all parts of the game but you did not require a group of 10 people to complete, that’s also a change to the original concept of legendaries.
Things change for games all the time, things get added or removed, what’s important is that game stays true to the original audience it was designed for. That game identity created from day one is what players bought the game for, if you turn around and try to cater for a different type of player that the game wasn’t even designed for, obviously not all your current players would be happy about it.
The first 8 months of the expansion was basically dedicated to the raids, the last 8 months have been for living story. In that you can see they’re creating content for both types of players, but other areas of the game suffers because anet does not multi task very well, hi wvw. Why weren’t both raids and living world done at the same time if the raid team is so small?
It’s obvious with the amount of work going into building legendary armors that raids are now a big part of gw2 going forward. I mean they won’t even make separate armor pieces for the gem store anymore, it’s all outfits they shove in there, but raid legendaries are going to be individual pieces and animated.
The original identity of gw2 has been chipped away at for a while now. But they’re heading down the direction of every other game with raids, you raid you get the coolest stuff in the game. If that’s the way they want to go for their end game, so be it, but I didn’t come to gw2 for raids, I left a game that had much more better options for raids to come play gw2 for wvw (one of those original audiences of gw2 being ignored).
Raids and their release schedule was a planed part of the expansion. The time they took to “fix” some of the issues of HoT with the Spring April 2016 update likely impacted the release of LWS3 by 3 months at least.
As for WvW they’ve been doing updates to WvW for quite some time. Players keep insisting they want a major revamp to make the game mode all shinny and new again. They did get one, with HoT. Gee, that didn’t work out so well did it? And since then they’ve tried to repair the damage done as well as tweaking aspects of scoring and adding new mechanics. But all I see often repeated on the forums is “ANet has ignored WvW”. Same thing can be said about Fractals, easy for some to discount all the work they’ve done because they are revamps and not a steady stream of new ones.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Maybe so. Like I said, I’ve seen what happens over time in other games, and this game is moving in that direction. If I were on a sled, sliding down a snow bank moving toward a cliff, I wouldn’t wait to go over the cliff to say something. Just saying.
Well since LS3 started we got 4 new pve maps, 2 new pvp maps (in beta), 2 (+4 with tweaks, total 6) Fractals and 1 Raid Wing. I’m not seeing that “raid focus” direction at all. In fact since LS3 started every type of player got more content than they did at any point in the game’s lifetime. What’s not to like about the new direction?
Maybe so. Like I said, I’ve seen what happens over time in other games, and this game is moving in that direction. If I were on a sled, sliding down a snow bank moving toward a cliff, I wouldn’t wait to go over the cliff to say something. Just saying.
Well since LS3 started we got 4 new pve maps, 2 new pvp maps (in beta), 2 (+4 with tweaks, total 6) Fractals and 1 Raid Wing. I’m not seeing that “raid focus” direction at all. In fact since LS3 started every type of player got more content than they did at any point in the game’s lifetime. What’s not to like about the new direction?
And hard fractals with a challenge mode. Dont’ forget fractals are getting harder too.
Edit: In fact, Anet are changing the fractals into the training ground for raids. That should tell you something too.
Because, as has been alreadymentioned, the problem is not the armor, but it’s acquisition method.
Why is the acquisition a problem for the armor and not for the weapons and backpieces? They are also exclusive gated behind certain content.
Weapons are gated behind a core content. Anet assumes that most players do play PvE (and they assume right). Raids are not core content however. Also, one set of weapons can be flat out bought from TP.
Backpacks are hidden behind side content, but there are two of them (so you can choose), and also they are locked behind a much lower investment in said content than raids. In fact, PvP backpack acquisition method got even easier lately.
I play MMOs now for over 10 years. I never experienced a takeover from raids. It was always pretty clear from the beginning that raids are the focus.
In GW2 it wasn’t clear from the beginning. And yet the game does seem to look like a raid-focused one more and more.
It was also always clear that ArenaNet wants optional content for organised groups that can’t be cleared with your average PUG.
Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.
If you can arrange that I can be raiding along with 9 compatible people a few minutes into my gaming session whenever I happen to find an opportunity to log on, I could probably do it. My skill level won’t be the problem.
Unless you are a tank, this is also not existent in any other game that features easy modes and automated queues.
But it wasn’t existent in GW2 until raids.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Maybe so. Like I said, I’ve seen what happens over time in other games, and this game is moving in that direction. If I were on a sled, sliding down a snow bank moving toward a cliff, I wouldn’t wait to go over the cliff to say something. Just saying.
Well since LS3 started we got 4 new pve maps, 2 new pvp maps (in beta), 2 (+4 with tweaks, total 6) Fractals and 1 Raid Wing. I’m not seeing that “raid focus” direction at all. In fact since LS3 started every type of player got more content than they did at any point in the game’s lifetime. What’s not to like about the new direction?
And hard fractals with a challenge mode. Dont’ forget fractals are getting harder too.
Edit: In fact, Anet are changing the fractals into the training ground for raids. That should tell you something too.
T4 fractals, not fractals in general. The new fractals are still not hard at lower difficulties. Maybe they seem to be harder as they now include some mechanics that require faster reactions and that is pretty hard with a higher than average ping. But this is also what the game was advertised in the past, action packed combat.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
And hard fractals with a challenge mode. Dont’ forget fractals are getting harder too.
That’s false, only challenge mote (which is an extra difficulty, outside the fractals scale) and maybe Swampland are harder, the rest of the changes made their respective fractals easier not harder. All of them good changes btw, I’m not complaining.
In GW2 it wasn’t clear from the beginning. And yet the game does seem to look like a raid-focused one more and more.
By adding more content for all other game modes than ever added in the game’s history it becomes raid-focused? Nice leap of logic there.
In GW2 it wasn’t clear from the beginning. And yet the game does seem to look like a raid-focused one more and more.
By adding more content for all other game modes than ever added in the game’s history it becomes raid-focused? Nice leap of logic there.
When content added for raids is at least equal, if not greater, than one added for core gamemode? With parts of the ls story hidden behind raids? WIth raids being mentioned as explanation behind changes in other gamemodes? With pretty much open admission that raids are being considered to be the endgame now (as opposed to previous model)?
I think that my logic is pretty sound, thank you very much.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
And hard fractals with a challenge mode. Dont’ forget fractals are getting harder too.
That’s false, only challenge mote (which is an extra difficulty, outside the fractals scale) and maybe Swampland are harder, the rest of the changes made their respective fractals easier not harder. All of them good changes btw, I’m not complaining.
It’s true. One of the devs said in an interview, or AMA that the new swamp, no challenge mote or anything, was an attempt to get people ready for raids. See this is how it goes.
The rest of the game changes, because raids are now in it. It’s not just raids. A dev said straight up they intentionally made the swamp fractal harder to prepare people for raids.
When content added for raids is at least equal, if not greater, than one added for core gamemode?
They are adding MORE content than they did at any other point in the game’s history, that’s a fact, what they do with Raids is irrelevant. What you are calling core gamemode is irrelevant too.
Also, they didn’t add more Raids than other types of content.
Re-posting:
Well since LS3 started we got 4 new pve maps, 2 new pvp maps (in beta), 2 (+4 with tweaks, total 6) Fractals and 1 Raid Wing. I’m not seeing that “raid focus” direction at all. In fact since LS3 started every type of player got more content than they did at any point in the game’s lifetime. What’s not to like about the new direction?
The rest of the game changes, because raids are now in it. It’s not just raids. A dev said straight up they intentionally made the swamp fractal harder to prepare people for raids.
Link for that AMA?
Yet the rest of the Fractals they added were easier than core Fractals, and all the changes to Fractals were straight up nerfs in difficulty. They are ALL easier now.
Weapons are gated behind a core content. Anet assumes that most players do play PvE (and they assume right). Raids are not core content however. Also, one set of weapons can be flat out bought from TP.
Backpacks are hidden behind side content, but there are two of them (so you can choose), and also they are locked behind a much lower investment in said content than raids. In fact, PvP backpack acquisition method got even easier lately.
The legendaries with HoT are still exclusively gated behind certain content, if I want those have to play the content. There is no alternative and weapons have no alternative option. Play open world or don’t get it.
Most people craft legendaries for the skin or the glider from the backpacks. People that don’t have enough time for Dragon’s Stand will never get a HoT legendary weapon. Should it be changed?
It’s still about the skin as stat swap is still no argument, you need to change runes/sigils with it and mystic forge recipes can be used many times before you even reach the cost of a legendary item.
Why is it ok to gate weapons behind one type of content and not for the armor?
In GW2 it wasn’t clear from the beginning. And yet the game does seem to look like a raid-focused one more and more.
The game is not raid focused. There were 8 months between the last two raid releases. There were 4 LS releases during that time. Forsaken thicket development started during HoT development.
Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.
It is optional. Where does the story told in raids affect you (the part of Forsaken Thicket that plays a role in LS3 gets explained in Head of the Snake, with more information than the raid ever had)? Where are legendary items better than ascended?
But it wasn’t existent in GW2 until raids.
Yes it was. Old dungeon groups and old fractals had times without non-meta groups unless you started your own and you can still do that with raids.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
(edited by Miellyn.6847)
The rest of the game changes, because raids are now in it. It’s not just raids. A dev said straight up they intentionally made the swamp fractal harder to prepare people for raids.
Link for that AMA?
Yet the rest of the Fractals they added were easier than core Fractals, and all the changes to Fractals were straight up nerfs in difficulty. They are ALL easier now.
I don’t have the link, but I’m pretty sure it was the AMA when the fractal launched. It was said.
As far as difficulty I’m not so sure you or I are in a position to judge. I know for a fact I’m more powerful with my elite spec and I get the whole break bar thing, which a lot of people don’t.
One question….do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that the ranger elite spec would have been a healing spec if raids weren’t in the game. Because we all know no where else in PvE needs a healer. So if raids are the reason that was decided that raids are affecting the game.
No area of this game exists in a bubble. Open world PvE seldom sees nerfs for anything but my skills will get changed based on what happens in raids whether I raid or not.
You can’t add a penthouse to a building without raising it’s height. Adding anything to the game is going to affect other things.
And hard fractals with a challenge mode. Dont’ forget fractals are getting harder too.
That’s false, only challenge mote (which is an extra difficulty, outside the fractals scale) and maybe Swampland are harder, the rest of the changes made their respective fractals easier not harder. All of them good changes btw, I’m not complaining.
It’s true. One of the devs said in an interview, or AMA that the new swamp, no challenge mote or anything, was an attempt to get people ready for raids. See this is how it goes.
The rest of the game changes, because raids are now in it. It’s not just raids. A dev said straight up they intentionally made the swamp fractal harder to prepare people for raids.
Yes i read that AMA. He did say it. BUT you are leaving out the context which is VERY important here.
For months and months non-raiders where loudly voicing that raids how they are now are not accessible and there is no learning curve and that easy mode/story mode extravaganza (<— which i admit i was part of at that time)
Changing SOME fractals (nowhere near all or even most) to give players a kind of stepping stone for raids was the way they tried to go. They did that by changing a fractal that needed changing badly (swamp).
As far as difficulty I’m not so sure you or I are in a position to judge. I know for a fact I’m more powerful with my elite spec and I get the whole break bar thing, which a lot of people don’t.
If they are doing T4 Fractals (which is where CM Nightmare is, and where the hard fractals are) they should know how to breakbars and how to play the game. If they do not that’s not a problem with the game, they can go back to VB (or T1 fractals) and they can learn all about how to play. Uninformed players have no place in T4 fractals
One question….do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that the ranger elite spec would have been a healing spec if raids weren’t in the game. Because we all know no where else in PvE needs a healer. So if raids are the reason that was decided that raids are affecting the game.
A lot of builds can heal. The Druid isn’t the first choice of healer because of their heals but because of their damage boosts. Remove the damage boosts from Druids and other builds can be better healers. There have always been healers, just take a look at the bunker builds in pvp, they existed since day 1. You could use a healing spec for an Elementalist and face tank the spider at AC for example, or use a healing build as a Warrior to facetank Lupicus in Arah without even dodging, and that’s before elite specs. Healing builds existed and made the game considerably easier, however they also made the content take an insane amount of time, and since content was easy pre-Raids, a fast completion time was what everyone was looking for.
No area of this game exists in a bubble. Open world PvE seldom sees nerfs for anything but my skills will get changed based on what happens in raids whether I raid or not.
Which skill is so useful in open world pve and you can’t finish content without it, that was nerfed due to Raids?
The rest of the game changes, because raids are now in it. It’s not just raids. A dev said straight up they intentionally made the swamp fractal harder to prepare people for raids.
Link for that AMA?
Yet the rest of the Fractals they added were easier than core Fractals, and all the changes to Fractals were straight up nerfs in difficulty. They are ALL easier now.
I don’t have the link, but I’m pretty sure it was the AMA when the fractal launched. It was said.
As far as difficulty I’m not so sure you or I are in a position to judge. I know for a fact I’m more powerful with my elite spec and I get the whole break bar thing, which a lot of people don’t.
One question….do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that the ranger elite spec would have been a healing spec if raids weren’t in the game. Because we all know no where else in PvE needs a healer. So if raids are the reason that was decided that raids are affecting the game.
No area of this game exists in a bubble. Open world PvE seldom sees nerfs for anything but my skills will get changed based on what happens in raids whether I raid or not.
You can’t add a penthouse to a building without raising it’s height. Adding anything to the game is going to affect other things.
The rework would have happend most likely anyway. They said they want T4 fractals as a stepping stone for raids and want to increase the difficulty there not fractals in general.
We can’t say this for sure. The engineer elite specialistion is not that good in PvE and has most of it’s use in WvW or sPvP. Druid also sees a lot of play in sPvP.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
And hard fractals with a challenge mode. Dont’ forget fractals are getting harder too.
That’s false, only challenge mote (which is an extra difficulty, outside the fractals scale) and maybe Swampland are harder, the rest of the changes made their respective fractals easier not harder. All of them good changes btw, I’m not complaining.
It’s true. One of the devs said in an interview, or AMA that the new swamp, no challenge mote or anything, was an attempt to get people ready for raids. See this is how it goes.
The rest of the game changes, because raids are now in it. It’s not just raids. A dev said straight up they intentionally made the swamp fractal harder to prepare people for raids.
Yes i read that AMA. He did say it. BUT you are leaving out the context which is VERY important here.
For months and months non-raiders where loudly voicing that raids how they are now are not accessible and there is no learning curve and that easy mode/story mode extravaganza (<— which i admit i was part of at that time)
Changing SOME fractals (nowhere near all or even most) to give players a kind of stepping stone for raids was the way they tried to go. They did that by changing a fractal that needed changing badly (swamp).
My comment was that the addition of Raids changes other parts of the game. People keep making claims that raids exist in a bubble and nothing else is affected but raids. I’ve proved that at least in one case, raids influenced the development of Fractals, and I’m sure the challenge mode Fractal was part of that package deal.
Furthermore, we know some skills have been altered due to raids. They’d not have done it for open world PvE.
And I’m relatively sure that the ranger elite spec was designed because raids were coming in the game. There was no other reason for a healer spec to be in the game.
No part of the game is completely separate. Changes to PvE that affect the economy affect PvPer’s to, if they need to buy stuff. Changes to WvW affect things. For example, if badges of honor hadn’t been added to achievement point chests, then it’s likely that we’d still be able to buy gifts of battle with them. But they were added and now it’s far less convenient for some people, including me, to get a gift of battle or a legendary.
And I’m sure that the development of the ranger’s elite spec was influenced by raids. I can’t think of another explanation that makes sense.
Raids influence things outside of raids. They don’t exist in a bubble and though I can ignore them, saying that they don’t affect anything else is demonstrably not true.
MMOs are like homes. We live in them. We spend hours, days, weeks and months in these places. We adopt them to become ours. This game used to be “my game”. That is, the decisions the devs made in releasing the game on launch was about 90% of everything I wanted in an MMO (with a few small omissions).
But as time goes on and the game starts to drift from that initial game, this game becomes less my home. I’m no longer the guy who does everything in the game, I do less. And as they add more and provide less of the other stuff, I do even less.
As there’s less for me to do, I’ll just move to the next game that comes out,. eventually, when I’ve done everything I want to do. For me that won’t be this year, or next year. Hell it might be never.
But I’ve moved on from MMOs before and I move on from them because their focus changes. What they offer changes.
And I’m a guy that puts up with a lot of change before I move. I promise you there are a lot of people who walked away from the game because it’s become less casual than it was…probably more people than people who are raiding now…in my opinion.
Games like this are a comfort zone for some people. You take them too far out of their comfort zone and you force them to rethink their bound with the game.
This isn’t about raids being too difficult. I CAN do raids. I can join a raiding guild and beat every boss, just like I beat every elite area in Guild Wars 1. Being a raid isn’t my issue.
Not enjoying raids, and seeing rewards I want locked behind them, that’s my issue.
110% this
Raids influence things outside of raids. They don’t exist in a bubble and though I can ignore them, saying that they don’t affect anything else is demonstrably not true.
Of course they do. And PVP influences PVE as well and has always been, while PVE is affecting WvW. But how are those changes that were a result of Raids made your experience in general PVE worse? How did those changes negatively altered your game play?
Raids influence things outside of raids. They don’t exist in a bubble and though I can ignore them, saying that they don’t affect anything else is demonstrably not true.
Of course they do. And PVP influences PVE as well and has always been, while PVE is affecting WvW. But how are those changes that were a result of Raids made your experience in general PVE worse? How did those changes negatively altered your game play?
Well, I actually believe I’d have enjoyed a different elite spec for the ranger more, and I’m pretty sure raiding is the reason I got that. My main was a ranger, but now I’ve switched more to mesmer, because I like the chronomancer better, But I’d definitely rather had a higher dps option, or a non-pet option available for the ranger than what we got.
I don’t love the harder fractals either. I do them, but I do them less.
And there’s no way to tell how many other things were influenced by raids that I haven’t noticed.
Once the game starts getting more hard core, it attracts more hard core players, who loudly voice a desire for something I’m not interest in.
Once that process starts, it’s not so easy to reverse, or even slow down.
It was also always clear that ArenaNet wants optional content for organised groups that can’t be cleared with your average PUG.
Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.
This keeps being repeated, but there’s one question I have: How do you propose to encourage the vast number of middle ground people that just need a little incentive to enjoy the gamemode to play it without also giving incentive to those that don’t have the willpower to resist temptation to play stuff they don’t enjoy?
Raids influence things outside of raids. They don’t exist in a bubble and though I can ignore them, saying that they don’t affect anything else is demonstrably not true.
Of course they do. And PVP influences PVE as well and has always been, while PVE is affecting WvW. But how are those changes that were a result of Raids made your experience in general PVE worse? How did those changes negatively altered your game play?
You’ve obviously played the game long enough to understand how Anet balances this game. Pushing Mesmers into a support boonshare build in raids means they have one of the lowest dps outputs in all the other modes. Giving raiders the ok for dps meters means dps meters are used in other aspects of the game. Core classes can swap out anybtrait at will elites on the other hand each have a role made for raids and can only seal out two of the three trait lines. Meaning their trinity push is maintained in PVE while outclassing the core such as Chrono outclasses the Mesmer. You went from looking at all classes to do anything to the classes being skewed with their raid role. Heck perma stealth theif was only nerfed because a thief solo’d a raid boss recently months of WVW complaining ignored and it’s only when their raids get tampered with do they take action. Heck their are other OP builds out their that far exceed what’s reasonable but none of them get touched unless they caught soloing raid content.
The nature of the broken builds is enough to prove that other modes are completely and utterly neglected arguing that raids aren’t the primarily influence on all the other modes falls rather flat when you consider the elites specials are all designed with the trinity that raids themselves introduced so the game is mainly blanced to the raid.
(edited by Doam.8305)
It was also always clear that ArenaNet wants optional content for organised groups that can’t be cleared with your average PUG.
Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.
This keeps being repeated, but there’s one question I have: How do you propose to encourage the vast number of middle ground people that just need a little incentive to enjoy the gamemode to play it without also giving incentive to those that don’t have the willpower to resist temptation to play stuff they don’t enjoy?
This is a great question and it’s not an easy answer. The problem is MMOs become addictive and people play them to get “more”. At least some people do. People who want more, are going to gravitate to the “best” stuff in the game.
You can’t provide a great reward for something that doesn’t attract people, whether they like that content or not. PvP last season was the perfect example. The game offered ascended gear so cheaply, PvP was popping, but it wasn’t popping with people who necessarily liked PvP.
I talked with more than one person who didn’t like it, but did it just to get that reward, in spite of the fact they knew they sucked at PvP and didn’t want to do it. Those people cost other people on their side games, because they didn’t really care about playing. They cared about the reward. That’s part of the issue with giving out the best rewards somewhere. You’ll get people who screw over other people.
Now if you give out the best rewards in an area people don’t like or can’t do because they just aren’t good enough (or their connection to the net isn’t good enough, or their computer isn’t good enough), you end up with people who try it, then give up and then , seeing no other path to the goodies they crave, want those things even more.
I can’t have pizza because it raises my blood sugar too high. I don’t even particularly like pizza, and never wanted it, until I couldn’t have it. Suddenly it became something I wanted. That’s human nature. Games prey on this kind of thing.
Which is the problem. The game makes us crave certain rewards, and then provides ONE PATH to that reward, that some people will hate, or be unable to do. Those people will want that reward more because their perception is they can’t have it. The more it’s out of their reach, the more some people will want it.
So the question is always where do you draw that line? Why can’t people just enjoy what they want to enjoy and earn rewards, rather than the game dictating to them what they have to do. It’s been a complaint from the beginning and I’ve always agreed with it.
The more the game “encourages” people into content that they don’t enjoy, the more chance that people will be dissatisfied with the game. Only a certain number of people are going to keep banging away at stuff they don’t like to get the shiny.
maddoctor.2738Well since LS3 started we got 4 new pve maps, 2 new pvp maps (in beta), 2 (+4 with tweaks, total 6) Fractals and 1 Raid Wing. I’m not seeing that “raid focus” direction at all. In fact since LS3 started every type of player got more content than they did at any point in the game’s lifetime. What’s not to like about the new direction?
Well, let’s write the same thing using different words: "Since HoT was released the raiders got 4 complete raids having 13 complete paths and bosses. The “core” (PvE casuals) got 4 small maps (with the LS3 release), the PvP community got 2 new maps. And, the fractal community got 2 “new” fractals, designed as being a stepping stone to raid. So, the fractal community got the maps only in the raid context :-))
Reworking other fractals I don’t consider to be new content.
This seems to be so much for all the other players compared with what the raiders got after the HoT launch?
maddoctor.2738Which skill is so useful in open world pve and you can’t finish content without it, that was nerfed due to Raids?
Well, the context is a bit forced. Nobody can complete the PvE solo. If you want to tell me that is possible, then explain how you solo the control panel room in Underground fractal. Or how you pass over the laser door in the same fractal. Or how you solve the simultaneous activation of the torches in CoF. Or how you deal solo with the console in the CoE dungeon? Did you ever soloed Tequatl? Successful?
So, you group with other players for some PvE content. In this condition no skill is crucial. You can take any skill from any class and replace it with a blank slot and you are able to play PvE. This is why I said the context is forced.
A more accurate question seems to be Which skill was nerfed due to Raids? . And you can have a loooooooooooot of examples. Think about Signet of Inspiration. Or the wells. Or the way Alacrity was adjusted. This is only the Mesmer. So, YES, the raid was the reason (sometimes the only reason) for a lot of skill nerfs.
As a conclusion: I play this game for less than 3 years. I was not here from the beginning, but still I can tell that the game I play now is somewhat different from the game I played when I started. And the difference is not a very pleasant one.
Changes means evolution. From this definition point of view, the game evolved. But you know, a wrong change means evolution in a wrong direction. And evolving in a wrong direction may end in tragedy.
Yet the rest of the Fractals they added were easier than core Fractals, and all the changes to Fractals were straight up nerfs in difficulty. They are ALL easier now.
Snowblind isn’t. Chaos and Nightmare aren’t easier than old fractals either.
Weapons are gated behind a core content. Anet assumes that most players do play PvE (and they assume right). Raids are not core content however. Also, one set of weapons can be flat out bought from TP.
Backpacks are hidden behind side content, but there are two of them (so you can choose), and also they are locked behind a much lower investment in said content than raids. In fact, PvP backpack acquisition method got even easier lately.
The legendaries with HoT are still exclusively gated behind certain content, if I want those have to play the content. There is no alternative and weapons have no alternative option. Play open world or don’t get it.
What about the “core content” did you misunderstand? Also, yeah, those weapons do have an alternative, because a second set exists. Point me to a second legendary armor, available from core content (and buyable from TP), and i will shut up.
Most people craft legendaries for the skin or the glider from the backpacks. People that don’t have enough time for Dragon’s Stand will never get a HoT legendary weapon. Should it be changed?
Most probably, yeah. HoT weapons require too much of a specific grind. It’s good that we do have an alternative set that’s more accessible, though.
Why is it ok to gate weapons behind one type of content and not for the armor?
Why is it that you still don’t see the difference between core content, meant for a majority of players, and a side one, meant for only a minority?
Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.
It is optional. Where does the story told in raids affect you (the part of Forsaken Thicket that plays a role in LS3 gets explained in Head of the Snake, with more information than the raid ever had)? Where are legendary items better than ascended?
Is the legendary armor an incentive to get people to raid, even if they don’t like the content, or not?
But it wasn’t existent in GW2 until raids.
Yes it was. Old dungeon groups and old fractals had times without non-meta groups unless you started your own and you can still do that with raids.
My lfgs filled within minutes, and i still had like 99% chance of completion. Not so with raids.
Which skill is so useful in open world pve and you can’t finish content without it, that was nerfed due to Raids?
It’s the reason behind skill changes that is important, not the changes themselves. For example, ghost thieves got nerfed last patch. WvW community asked for a looong time for that nerf, and the build only got buffed, but nerf happened very fast after someone posted a link with that build soloing slothasor. That pretty much tells you everything you want to know about the relative importance of those two game modes.
The rework would have happend most likely anyway. They said they want T4 fractals as a stepping stone for raids and want to increase the difficulty there not fractals in general.
Yeah. So, please, tell me – would it happen if raids didn’t exist?
If the answer is “no” (and it is), then here you have raids impacting another unrelated game mode.
It was also always clear that ArenaNet wants optional content for organised groups that can’t be cleared with your average PUG.
Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.
This keeps being repeated, but there’s one question I have: How do you propose to encourage the vast number of middle ground people that just need a little incentive to enjoy the gamemode to play it without also giving incentive to those that don’t have the willpower to resist temptation to play stuff they don’t enjoy?
The same way it was being done in dungeons and is the case in fractals currently – through increased rewards that are not unique.
The incentive of dungeons of old and fractals of now was not in dungeon/fractal skins, but in liquid gold/material rewards. The same should stay for raids.
Also, you greatly overestimate the “vast number” of middle ground players. Unless you speak in relatives, but that would mean the number of core raiders is really small (though if you think about it, it probably is).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
The truth is that the game Is good but need some new fresh things, Anet why RAids focusing? i play since beta , ive done some few raids , but 75% population in Gw2 dont play it or cant play because the lfg always says required Killed proof and a lot of LI !!! this is not Guild wars !!!
About my last post, things that should be implemented for future:
- some way to all players do raids , easy mode less rewards somethin like that.
- PvE quest lists ( From Gw1 ) like do entire exploration in some maps for dailys rewarding with gold or some currency , this way can fill some old maps, helping newbies
Bounty quests
Mission quests
Vanquish quests
- upscale again the dungeon rewards just a little bit, for lfg have some full partys dungeons again..
- More content with 10man players
-Pvp is so broken .. op builds dat insta kill is not the “fun thing” , pvp modes like JQ (jade quarry) and FA (fort aspenwood) that was amazing to bring to gw2 .. Cmon ANet the most played thing in GW1 was JQ making Zkeys. THAT was FUN
- Lets Hope for a new good expansion with lots of fun .
(edited by Blix xxx.5298)
So you ignore the simple facts that Fractal release pace is faster than it has ever been in the past for the game called Guild Wars 2, that’s a proven fact and you can’t deny it calling it “mockery”. If the current pace is bad for you then why haven’t you quit the game in the last 3 years we got no fractal release at all? Where were you then? Oh right there were no Raids back then to be your one and only focus.
I’m not ignoring simple facts that Anet lied to us when they dropped dungeon support and said that fractals will be their new PvE endgame focus, and then switched their focus to raids without saying a word.
You also ignore the simple proof that we got 6 fractals over 1 raid wing, since fractal releases started. That’s huge. And what do re-used assets have to do with anything? The bosses and the re-worked encounters use completely new mechanics not found anywhere else in the game. That’s what counts, not the shiny textures and models.
Assets are sign of attention. When developer decides that content is not important enough to ask designers for at least some new models, then it’s a pretty clear indicator of their priorities. That means that content was made either in haste because making new models takes time (2016Q2 financial results, eh?), or they are not considering it important enough, so designers are making new content for something else (geeee, I wonder what exactly).
And about fractal loot, fractals won’t get new loot, because of how their reward system is designed. Since you probably ignore, adding a new fractal is much more complicated process than adding a new Raid. This includes adding new rewards for them, since they need to be balanced for all current fractals.
Their reward system is designed to not have freshly modeled weapons/armor? That’s something new.
Btw, I’m not against raids. I’m against their horrible implementation. I’m against lies when “ultimate PvE endgame” suddenly becomes mere “stepping stone to raids”. I’m against developers who refuse to open their eyes and stop copying long dead vanilla WoW raid ideology. I’m against toxicity that surrounds raid community, where 100 LI Escort demands are already considered normal and all criticism is met with “make your own group”. I’m against turning game into the ugly vanilla WoW parody.
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
Yes, as you mentioned, it is to appeal and they never said it is to be equivalent to raid so his claim is still invalid.
No it’s not. How can something so easy as the dungeons became after some time be “appealing” to those who liked Raids in other mmorpgs? The claim is still valid, and your counter is invalid.
All in all, don’t twist the words for your own convenient arguments.
You are the one twisting words for your own convenient arguments. Didn’t you read the second interview that they wanted their dungeons to be like old challenging areas of GW1? Have you ever played in those areas? It was impossible to complete without organization, without team building, without teamwork and without proper builds. In contrast, dungeons in GW2 are done sole while naked. They said their dungeons will be about coordination. Stop twisting their words for your convenient arguments. The words are simple and have a simple interpretation. They said they will have Raid-like difficulty but they didn’t, nothing more than that.
They said the content would attract the Raid group, so it will be equal to Raids in other games in terms of difficulty/challenge, otherwise it wouldn’t attract the Raid crowd. It’s that simple. There aren’t multiple meanings to what was said, they wanted to add content that will challenging, only in a way a Raid can be, and failed to deliver. Now they do.
Edit2: Also, I have to correct you on something. Aetherblade, molten etc weren’t designed to be regular dungeons, it were designed as special dungeons available alongside with living story 1. They simply put it back in the game since people were like, why is anet making contents only to delete it later? Again, you seems to be using those as convenient arguments to justify something.
There is nothing to correct. Those dungeons were designed as gimmicks, making gear and build nearly irrelevant, all that was to them was added challenge by having puzzle elements. I was talking about the initial additions in LS1 not the fractal versions.
Snowblind isn’t. Chaos and Nightmare aren’t easier than old fractals either.
Snowblind IS considerably easier now, the initial part is a joke, the elemental is a joke, the boss doesn’t even hit hard and has low hit points. Chaos and Nightmare and really easier than Volcanic and Underground.
I’m not ignoring simple facts that Anet lied to us when they dropped dungeon support and said that fractals will be their new PvE endgame focus, and then switched their focus to raids without saying a word.
Fractals were “supported” without adding a single fractal in 3 years. Right, they “switched” their focus by going back to focus on Fractals and actually release some. You are contradicting yourself here.
Assets are sign of attention. When developer decides that content is not important enough to ask designers for at least some new models, then it’s a pretty clear indicator of their priorities. That means that content was made either in haste because making new models takes time (2016Q2 financial results, eh?), or they are not considering it important enough, so designers are making new content for something else (geeee, I wonder what exactly).
Assets were re-used from LS1, just like most of Fractals is based on historical events in Tyrian history. Re-using those old LS1 assets that were removed from the game was an excellent move for content that is all about that.
maddoctor.2738Well since LS3 started we got 4 new pve maps, 2 new pvp maps (in beta), 2 (+4 with tweaks, total 6) Fractals and 1 Raid Wing. I’m not seeing that “raid focus” direction at all. In fact since LS3 started every type of player got more content than they did at any point in the game’s lifetime. What’s not to like about the new direction?
Well, let’s write the same thing using different words: "Since HoT was released the raiders got 4 complete raids having 13 complete paths and bosses. The “core” (PvE casuals) got 4 small maps (with the LS3 release), the PvP community got 2 new maps. And, the fractal community got 2 “new” fractals, designed as being a stepping stone to raid. So, the fractal community got the maps only in the raid context :-))
Reworking other fractals I don’t consider to be new content.
Please, if you are going to change the watched times lines do it correctly.
If you take the time since HoT release its 8 complete new Maps with own currencies, own weapons, own armory, own ascended stuff, etc.
Just because YOU don’t consider the revamped maps no new content doesn’t mean its not. I did fractals everyday (and not just the dailies) for a year before all those revamps came and before i started raiding. Those changes where significant.
- They added two completly new fractals with 4-5 different diffulties each and challange motes,
- they completly changed two boss mechanics (cliff and swamp) and improved two more encounters (thaumanova and snowblind)
- they revamped the instabilities
- they implemented a completly new reward system for fractals
- they simplified the way to get infusions and attuning equipment
- they added a legendary backpiece
These were all great changes in fractals we got since HoT release. Stop selling them short. By saying stuff like that, you make me think you never actually did fractals before.
(edited by OniGiri.9461)
Well, let’s write the same thing using different words
Blame the re-work of HoT zones for that. Since you count the first Raid (which was part of HoT) why don’t you add the 4 HoT zones in your total?
Reworking other fractals I don’t consider to be new content.
Making completely new boss encounters isn’t “new” content? That’s really sad.
This seems to be so much for all the other players compared with what the raiders got after the HoT launch?
Yes if you know how to count properly and remember why LS3 didn’t start sooner. General PVE players got 8 full maps and 6 Fractals, compared to the 4 Raid wings it doesn’t look so good now does it?
A more accurate question seems to be Which skill was nerfed due to Raids? . And you can have a loooooooooooot of examples. Think about Signet of Inspiration. Or the wells. Or the way Alacrity was adjusted. This is only the Mesmer. So, YES, the raid was the reason (sometimes the only reason) for a lot of skill nerfs.
Funny, those mesmer adjustments happened for WvW and not Raids. Got any actual examples of skill changing due to Raids?
(edited by maddoctor.2738)
What about the “core content” did you misunderstand? Also, yeah, those weapons do have an alternative, because a second set exists. Point me to a second legendary armor, available from core content (and buyable from TP), and i will shut up.
What about gating behind a certain content without an alternative did you not understand? But i guess your answer is ‘I don’t care if rewards are gated behind specific content as long as it involves content I like to play’.
Most probably, yeah. HoT weapons require too much of a specific grind. It’s good that we do have an alternative set that’s more accessible, though.
So it is only about the color? Ok, ask ArenaNet for a legendary armor with the standard ascended skin, shouldn’t be a problem. But if it’s about the skin, why is it ok to lock HoT skins behind open world?
Why is it that you still don’t see the difference between core content, meant for a majority of players, and a side one, meant for only a minority?
Legendary items in general are content for a minority, not a problem to put it into content for a minority.
Is the legendary armor an incentive to get people to raid, even if they don’t like the content, or not?
How does a reward make content less optional? Legendary items are not required for anything.
My lfgs filled within minutes, and i still had like 99% chance of completion. Not so with raids.
99% completion rate for pugs for Arah 1 year after release? yeah, no.
The rework would have happend most likely anyway. They said they want T4 fractals as a stepping stone for raids and want to increase the difficulty there not fractals in general.
Yeah. So, please, tell me – would it happen if raids didn’t exist?
If the answer is “no” (and it is), then here you have raids impacting another unrelated game mode.
Did you read my text? I bolded an important part. And how can you say with 100% that the answer is no?
Then let it stay truly optional. Do not try to use incentives to pull into raids people that do not like that gamemode.
It is truly optional. It may not be optional for you, because you want the armor, but it doesn’t make it less optional in the whole game. Legendary items are not better than ascended.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
(edited by Miellyn.6847)
Yes, as you mentioned, it is to appeal and they never said it is to be equivalent to raid so his claim is still invalid.
No it’s not. How can something so easy as the dungeons became after some time be “appealing” to those who liked Raids in other mmorpgs? The claim is still valid, and your counter is invalid.
All in all, don’t twist the words for your own convenient arguments.
You are the one twisting words for your own convenient arguments. Didn’t you read the second interview that they wanted their dungeons to be like old challenging areas of GW1? Have you ever played in those areas? It was impossible to complete without organization, without team building, without teamwork and without proper builds. In contrast, dungeons in GW2 are done sole while naked. They said their dungeons will be about coordination. Stop twisting their words for your convenient arguments. The words are simple and have a simple interpretation. They said they will have Raid-like difficulty but they didn’t, nothing more than that.
They said the content would attract the Raid group, so it will be equal to Raids in other games in terms of difficulty/challenge, otherwise it wouldn’t attract the Raid crowd. It’s that simple. There aren’t multiple meanings to what was said, they wanted to add content that will challenging, only in a way a Raid can be, and failed to deliver. Now they do.
No, the fact remains, it is never equivalent to raid. You are the only one that continues to keep saying raid-like. All they wanted to do is to attract or appeal, it doesn’t necessary means the contents require to be equivalent to raid inorder to attract and appeal. You are the one assume it has to be like raid inorder to attract and appeal therefore come to the conclusion that it should be like raid.
On your argument about difficulty similar to gw1, do kindly note that the second article you have provided is dated in 2011 which is a year different from the first article which is dated 2012 though both are before release, it is only logical to take 2012 article as the more relevant reference.
Edit2: Also, I have to correct you on something. Aetherblade, molten etc weren’t designed to be regular dungeons, it were designed as special dungeons available alongside with living story 1. They simply put it back in the game since people were like, why is anet making contents only to delete it later? Again, you seems to be using those as convenient arguments to justify something.
There is nothing to correct. Those dungeons were designed as gimmicks, making gear and build nearly irrelevant, all that was to them was added challenge by having puzzle elements. I was talking about the initial additions in LS1 not the fractal versions.
Do kindly note that you are the one that stated that these one-off dungeons are part of the so-called attempt to provide more difficult contents. How can you call one-off dungeons anet’s attempt to provide more difficult contents? Shouldn’t difficult contents something more widely available?
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(edited by SkyShroud.2865)
MMOs are like homes. We live in them. We spend hours, days, weeks and months in these places. We adopt them to become ours. This game used to be “my game”. That is, the decisions the devs made in releasing the game on launch was about 90% of everything I wanted in an MMO (with a few small omissions).
But as time goes on and the game starts to drift from that initial game, this game becomes less my home. I’m no longer the guy who does everything in the game, I do less. And as they add more and provide less of the other stuff, I do even less.
As there’s less for me to do, I’ll just move to the next game that comes out,. eventually, when I’ve done everything I want to do. For me that won’t be this year, or next year. Hell it might be never.
But I’ve moved on from MMOs before and I move on from them because their focus changes. What they offer changes.
And I’m a guy that puts up with a lot of change before I move. I promise you there are a lot of people who walked away from the game because it’s become less casual than it was…probably more people than people who are raiding now…in my opinion.
Games like this are a comfort zone for some people. You take them too far out of their comfort zone and you force them to rethink their bound with the game.
This isn’t about raids being too difficult. I CAN do raids. I can join a raiding guild and beat every boss, just like I beat every elite area in Guild Wars 1. Being a raid isn’t my issue.
Not enjoying raids, and seeing rewards I want locked behind them, that’s my issue.
110% this
Yes, so much this! I wrote about a year ago much too succinctly to explain the issues with HoT to as adequately convey this very message. Way to go Vayne!
And I’m a guy that puts up with a lot of change before I move. I promise you there are a lot of people who walked away from the game because it’s become less casual than it was…probably more people than people who are raiding now…in my opinion.
Wow.
It’s been months since I checked in on the GW2 forum. I was a vocal GW2 advocate from before launch through the introduction of ascended gear. I hung on for quite a while after that, playing the game and participating frequently here on the forums. I loved the goals the developers said they had for the game, and the foundation they build in the game’s early months.
Shortly after HoT was released I found myself playing less and less, feeling that the expansion wasn’t really my thing and therefore failing to justify its cost. By the time the cost had dropped down to what I was willing to play, I’d missed logging in for LS updates, which means more cost to catch back up with the story, effectively sealing my departure from GW2.
On a lark, today, I popped back by the forums to see what the community is saying about the game.
To see Vayne, stalwart optimist and long time apologist for ArenaNet, thinking about whether it’s time to move on… I guess it’s something I never thought I’d see.
In my personal opinion, the answer to the thread title is not only, “Yes”, but probably “Repeatedly”. The initial vision presented for this game was bold and clear. I think it could have become a great niche game, the “MMO for people who hate MMOs”. It appeared to me that ArenaNet was surprised by the success of launch, then surprised by the player falloff shortly after. Instead of staying true to the original vision and keeping the core audience that agreed with it, they repeatedly adjusted the vision to try and capture back the rest of that audience that came and tried the game.
My history with GW2 felt like riding a ship with a captain who kept wildly changing destinations every six months or so.
No, the fact remains, it is never equivalent to raid.
Only that’s exactly what they said it will be, not Raids, but equivalent to Raids. Content for those who enjoy raiding in other games, so content equal to Raids.
are meant to attract the crowd that would normally be raiding in other MMOs
How can content that is meant to attract crowd that normally is raiding, not in any way similar, or equivalent to Raids?
It’s like opening a restaurant and saying, we’ll offer soup that will attract players that normally eat meat. No, to attract customers who eat meat, you will provide meat, not soup.
There is nothing subjective about it, the dungeons were in fact and beyond any kind of doubt going to be their equivalent to Raids. But they failed as such.
On your argument about difficulty similar to gw1, do kindly note that the second article you have provided is dated in 2011 which is a year different from the first article which is dated 2012 though both are before release, it is only logical to take 2012 article as the more relevant reference.
And your point? That they changed their attitude and decided that their “challenging” content would be a joke that doesn’t require any kind of coordination?.
Shouldn’t difficult contents something more widely available?
No. Both the newer dungeons and the open world events were harder than most content released prior to the game. Them being one-off content is irrelevant.
The only problem with the Druid is that its celestial avatar abilities completely eliminate the ranger’s damage. They need a damage component.