Guild Wars 2

Jia Shen.4217:

I mean with my i5 3570k 16GB of 2400 RAM, and a single GTX 970 I’m over 60FPS everywhere in the game at maximum settings in game and additional visual quality enhancements at driver level.

Go on SW near the training dummies in the starting area and look towards the waypoint, or go to an active boss event like Karak or Frozen Maw, or go to the start of Verdant Brink, and show a print screen with your settings and FPS please.
Because there’s no way you get 60fps there with all maxed at 1080p. All maxed includes Supersample and reflections set to All aswell btw.

Jia Shen.4217:

I mean with my i5 3570k 16GB of 2400 RAM, and a single GTX 970 I’m over 60FPS everywhere in the game at maximum settings

You must never have played wvw or participated in large open world events with loads of other players.

Who’s this we you speak of…

Dreamslayer.7659:

I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?

From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.

Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.

You’re kidding right?
Evidence 1: Severe reliance on CPU while unable to use multiple cores (something that DX11/12 would help with).
Evidence 2: Memory sinks. Game crashes on top notch machines. Even with 64bit client i still get random freezes on a 5 months old i74790k with 16Gb ram and a GTX 970 (GW2 on SSD), after HoT and before i got 64bit client (which was like the day after it released) i was crashing once or twice a day simply running around LA and such. Need better evidence?

Are we discussing this again?
Real issues are more related to the game engine. This is a mmo, and there’s a huge amount of cpu calculations, which have nothing to do with graphics, aka the api is irrelevant here.
Dx12 and Vulkan cpu improvements are related to the graphic rendering managed in the cpu , but cannot do anything to the game engine stuff that is rendered solely in the cpu.

Btw, Gw2 can use multiple cores. What it can’t do is to take advantage of multithreading rendering (a gw2 thread can only be executed by 1 cpu thread).

ReaverKane.7598:

Dreamslayer.7659:

I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?

From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.

Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.

You’re kidding right?
Evidence 1: Severe reliance on CPU while unable to use multiple cores (something that DX11/12 would help with).
Evidence 2: Memory sinks. Game crashes on top notch machines. Even with 64bit client i still get random freezes on a 5 months old i74790k with 16Gb ram and a GTX 970 (GW2 on SSD), after HoT and before i got 64bit client (which was like the day after it released) i was crashing once or twice a day simply running around LA and such. Need better evidence?

Multicore support with Dx11/12 isn’t automagical, they would have to recode their renderer portion of the engine to take advantage of Dx11/12’s ability to run simultaneously in multiple threads first. It’s NOT something a developer gets for free if they just choose to use Dx11/12.

As I pointed people to the reddit thread from the game engine dev in a previous post, the bottleneck isn’t the render thread, usually and the difficulty is some of their internal data objects aren’t thread safe meaning they couldn’t just make the part that is being the bottleneck multithreaded until they first make those objects thread safe, which they are working on.

Ansau.7326:

Are we discussing this again?
Real issues are more related to the game engine. This is a mmo, and there’s a huge amount of cpu calculations, which have nothing to do with graphics, aka the api is irrelevant here.
Dx12 and Vulkan cpu improvements are related to the graphic rendering managed in the cpu , but cannot do anything to the game engine stuff that is rendered solely in the cpu.

Btw, Gw2 can use multiple cores. What it can’t do is to take advantage of multithreading rendering (a gw2 thread can only be executed by 1 cpu thread).

this needs repeating.

Ayrilana.1396:

Edit: Direct link to article failed. Try this.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/14853-eric-flannum-and-john-peters-answers-your-questions-gamereactor/

The two that were interviewed were specifically talking about themselves and not Anet as a whole.

I didn’t catch this yesterday but yes they did specifically talked about Anet as a whole and its pretty clear in the interview.

Q. Will Guild Wars 2 support DirectX 11, either by publication or by a later update? .

A. I’m not quite sure, it is not within any of our disciplines. We do not require DirectX 11 to run the game – we try to keep the system relatively low.

Also DX is backwards compatible and no reason why they can’t list DX9/10/11/12 in the requirements.

DX12 would take a lot of resources (money) to be implemented into GW’s ancient tech.

Since HoT was a failure, there isn’t any money. Buy more gems and maybe they will get to DX12 after hell freezes over.

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

Edit: Direct link to article failed. Try this.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/14853-eric-flannum-and-john-peters-answers-your-questions-gamereactor/

The two that were interviewed were specifically talking about themselves and not Anet as a whole.

I didn’t catch this yesterday but yes they did specifically talked about Anet as a whole and its pretty clear in the interview.

Maybe. Maybe not. It’s up to interpretation.

Grim West.3194:

DX12 would take a lot of resources (money) to be implemented into GW’s ancient tech.

Since HoT was a failure, there isn’t any money. Buy more gems and maybe they will get to DX12 after hell freezes over.

Maybe but since they use Havok engine they can get allot of help from Havok support engineers.

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

Edit: Direct link to article failed. Try this.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/14853-eric-flannum-and-john-peters-answers-your-questions-gamereactor/

The two that were interviewed were specifically talking about themselves and not Anet as a whole.

I didn’t catch this yesterday but yes they did specifically talked about Anet as a whole and its pretty clear in the interview.

Maybe. Maybe not. It’s up to interpretation.

Actually no it isn’t open to interpretation, its quite clear what he meant.

A. I’m not quite sure, it is not within any of our disciplines. We do not require DirectX 11 to run the game – we try to keep the system relatively low.

God no.

My old piece of kitten rig runs this game smooth as silk. My GPU doesn’t even know DX12 exists. Shhhhhh.

Seriously though if you want a DX11+ game don’t play one that was released over 3 years ago.

Again, everyone against DX12 is just being silly. Many MMOs upgrade DX versions because its an easy way to make the game look prettier. It is a fact that each version of DX has helped old games look like newer ones. How is that a bad thing. It is also a fact that DX 12 reduces CPU strain for rendering. So even though it won’t help directly with the other CPU calculations it will help ease up total CPU usage. Which will indirectly help reduce the strain from those other CPU calculations. Its already been proven DX 12 does that, it just takes developers that are able to do so. I believe arenanet has those types of developers and I have faith that eventually they will add DX 12. I don’t see why they wouldn’t, it is an easy wway to make the flashy dyes and armors look even better.

fireflyry.7023:

God no.

My old piece of kitten rig runs this game smooth as silk. My GPU doesn’t even know DX12 exists. Shhhhhh.

Seriously though if you want a DX11+ game don’t play one that was released over 3 years ago.

10 year old games like DDO that launched with DX 9 support, have added 10 and 11. Is it just that none of you have faith in Arenanet to add DX12 support?

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Again, everyone against DX12 is just being silly. Many MMOs upgrade DX versions because its an easy way to make the game look prettier. It is a fact that each version of DX has helped old games look like newer ones. How is that a bad thing. It is also a fact that DX 12 reduces CPU strain for rendering. So even though it won’t help directly with the other CPU calculations it will help ease up total CPU usage. Which will indirectly help reduce the strain from those other CPU calculations. Its already been proven DX 12 does that, it just takes developers that are able to do so. I believe arenanet has those types of developers and I have faith that eventually they will add DX 12. I don’t see why they wouldn’t, it is an easy wway to make the flashy dyes and armors look even better.

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

10 year old games like DDO that launched with DX 9 support, have added 10 and 11. Is it just that none of you have faith in Arenanet to add DX12 support?

It’s just not needed.

The game looks fine, runs fine on most rigs. Why would they bother just to cater to a niche request that would eat up staff and dev time at the exclusion of those without big rigs.

Makes no sense if you think about it.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Again, everyone against DX12 is just being silly. Many MMOs upgrade DX versions because its an easy way to make the game look prettier. It is a fact that each version of DX has helped old games look like newer ones. How is that a bad thing. It is also a fact that DX 12 reduces CPU strain for rendering. So even though it won’t help directly with the other CPU calculations it will help ease up total CPU usage. Which will indirectly help reduce the strain from those other CPU calculations. Its already been proven DX 12 does that, it just takes developers that are able to do so. I believe arenanet has those types of developers and I have faith that eventually they will add DX 12. I don’t see why they wouldn’t, it is an easy wway to make the flashy dyes and armors look even better.

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Making the game look better is always worth it. Sure not everyone will be able to enjoy the new graphics settings but one of the reasons I play PC games is because of image quality. Even FPS games that I know you get an advantage with all the settings turned down, I still try to max out all the settings. As I just love being immersed in the environments. So IMO anything that has a chance to improve the image quality is worth it.

I disagree with you that there is more important issues to resolve for the team that would be handling something like this. A new DX version is something that every AAA MMO should eventually add support for. Its one of the few ways of staying relevant and adding longevity to games that can last decades. I don’t expect it right away though. The devs would need time to learn the new DX version through self study or classes of some sort and then have time to implement it. But I do expect it by the end of 2016.

fireflyry.7023:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

10 year old games like DDO that launched with DX 9 support, have added 10 and 11. Is it just that none of you have faith in Arenanet to add DX12 support?

It’s just not needed.

The game looks fine, runs fine on most rigs. Why would they bother just to cater to a niche request that would eat up staff and dev time at the exclusion of those without big rigs.

Makes no sense if you think about it.

Going off of the steam survey results that niche is about 1/3 the market already and still growing. To run DX12 you don’t need a “big rig”. Any low end card from either nvidias or AMDs current line up will support DX12. And Win 10 is free if you have a Windows PC capable of playing guild wars 2. DX 12 has been shown to help low end systems performance more than it does high end systems. I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t want it. Except to be stubborn and obtuse.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Again, everyone against DX12 is just being silly. Many MMOs upgrade DX versions because its an easy way to make the game look prettier. It is a fact that each version of DX has helped old games look like newer ones. How is that a bad thing. It is also a fact that DX 12 reduces CPU strain for rendering. So even though it won’t help directly with the other CPU calculations it will help ease up total CPU usage. Which will indirectly help reduce the strain from those other CPU calculations. Its already been proven DX 12 does that, it just takes developers that are able to do so. I believe arenanet has those types of developers and I have faith that eventually they will add DX 12. I don’t see why they wouldn’t, it is an easy wway to make the flashy dyes and armors look even better.

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Making the game look better is always worth it. Sure not everyone will be able to enjoy the new graphics settings but one of the reasons I play PC games is because of image quality. Even FPS games that I know you get an advantage with all the settings turned down, I still try to max out all the settings. As I just love being immersed in the environments. So IMO anything that has a chance to improve the image quality is worth it.

I disagree with you that there is more important issues to resolve for the team that would be handling something like this. A new DX version is something that every AAA MMO should eventually add support for. Its one of the few ways of staying relevant and adding longevity to games that can last decades. I don’t expect it right away though. The devs would need time to learn the new DX version through self study or classes of some sort and then have time to implement it. But I do expect it by the end of 2016.

I’ll still have to disagree with you. You need to remember that everything has costs and that when you have employees working on one thing, you’re foregoing them from working on another.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t want it. Except to be stubborn and obtuse.

Yet I’m unsure why anyone would, for exactly the same reasons.

This is old hat though.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/DirectX-11-12-request-merged

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

10 year old games like DDO that launched with DX 9 support, have added 10 and 11. Is it just that none of you have faith in Arenanet to add DX12 support?

Yeah .. and in HdRO i tested that for 2 days until i went back zo DX9 because
the performance was worse, and the water looked worse and whatever else.

So .. just going to a newer DX version doesn’t magically everything better. And every
MMO i know is very CPU heavy, and DX12 would also not magically change that
and make all those other calculations suddenly done by your GPU beside maybe
high quality shadows.

There are many tiers of ideas in the forums: 1.Great ideas that are practical to implement. 2.Great ideas that are impractical to implement. 3.Bad ideas. DirectX12 falls under the second category because it would add great performance while also enhancing graphics and optimization but the cost relative to that wouldn’t be worth it from the company’s perspective. So many ideas from the first category get ignored whereas things like a reward track for Stalwart skins and certain class balance ideas and MMR reworks (such as rating floors) fall under the first.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Again, everyone against DX12 is just being silly. Many MMOs upgrade DX versions because its an easy way to make the game look prettier. It is a fact that each version of DX has helped old games look like newer ones. How is that a bad thing. It is also a fact that DX 12 reduces CPU strain for rendering. So even though it won’t help directly with the other CPU calculations it will help ease up total CPU usage. Which will indirectly help reduce the strain from those other CPU calculations. Its already been proven DX 12 does that, it just takes developers that are able to do so. I believe arenanet has those types of developers and I have faith that eventually they will add DX 12. I don’t see why they wouldn’t, it is an easy wway to make the flashy dyes and armors look even better.

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Making the game look better is always worth it. Sure not everyone will be able to enjoy the new graphics settings but one of the reasons I play PC games is because of image quality. Even FPS games that I know you get an advantage with all the settings turned down, I still try to max out all the settings. As I just love being immersed in the environments. So IMO anything that has a chance to improve the image quality is worth it.

I disagree with you that there is more important issues to resolve for the team that would be handling something like this. A new DX version is something that every AAA MMO should eventually add support for. Its one of the few ways of staying relevant and adding longevity to games that can last decades. I don’t expect it right away though. The devs would need time to learn the new DX version through self study or classes of some sort and then have time to implement it. But I do expect it by the end of 2016.

I’ll still have to disagree with you. You need to remember that everything has costs and that when you have employees working on one thing, you’re foregoing them from working on another.

Like I said I don’t expect it right away. Win 10 and DX 12 have only been out for a few months. I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to fit in there by the end of 2016. As long as their infrastructure team is not the same guys making skins for the gem store.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

10 year old games like DDO that launched with DX 9 support, have added 10 and 11. Is it just that none of you have faith in Arenanet to add DX12 support?

Added in and people revert back to 9 for the most part because it runs with less lag.

The architecture of DDO and LOTRO are utterly different compared to GW2. You want/need a top graphics card there to help your FPS. Always have. GW2… not so much.

Also the only things that 10 and 11 added in for DDO? Better reflections in water/mirrors. A bit more lighting, shading, and bloom control. (The latter we don’t seem have here.) That is about it.

I really do not see the need for DX12 in this game honestly. But who knows what the future really holds. It just seems that they release a new form of DX whenever a new version of Windows comes out just to trick people into thinking newer is better again to help support sales. They are both owned by MS after all.

Agemnon.4608:

There are many tiers of ideas in the forums: 1.Great ideas that are practical to implement. 2.Great ideas that are impractical to implement. 3.Bad ideas. DirectX12 falls under the second category because it would add great performance while also enhancing graphics and optimization but the cost relative to that wouldn’t be worth it from the company’s perspective. So many ideas from the first category get ignored whereas things like a reward track for Stalwart skins and certain class balance ideas and MMR reworks (such as rating floors) fall under the first.

The people doing class balance probably aren’t the same guys who add DX 12 support. All of you saying there is more important things for them to do please tell me what their infrastructure team has on their plate that is more important than implementing something that can improve performance. What other thing can they do to help with the lag besides upgrading all their server/network equipment or raising the required specs to run the game. The change to particle effects and animations is one thing they did. While it is a step in the right direction if they keep going that route GW2 will no longer be thought of as one the better looking MMOs. Adding DX12 will compliment that change.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

HAHAHA huge fail and nice try with your spin once again and ignoring what one says. Like I asked give me some real prove and not what some Dev said on Reddit. Even the said Dev truly doesn’t know how it will perform until they add it also DX 12 removes some of those bottleneck’s he is talking about. Because a Dev a said X it must be the gospel lol give me a break!! Without any bench marks etc to back anything up its all talk by said Dev.

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

HAHAHA huge fail and nice try with your spin once again and ignoring what one says. Like I asked give me some real prove and not what some Dev said on Reddit. Even the said Dev truly doesn’t know how it will perform until they add it also DX 12 removes some of those bottleneck’s he is talking about.

It is evidence as the dev is one in a position to know the GW2 engine. They know it’s structure and what the issues are as they stated in their post. You also claim that same dev also said in the post that they wouldn’t know how it will perform until they add it. I don’t see that so did you make it up?

Edit: Grammar

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Agemnon.4608:

There are many tiers of ideas in the forums: 1.Great ideas that are practical to implement. 2.Great ideas that are impractical to implement. 3.Bad ideas. DirectX12 falls under the second category because it would add great performance while also enhancing graphics and optimization but the cost relative to that wouldn’t be worth it from the company’s perspective. So many ideas from the first category get ignored whereas things like a reward track for Stalwart skins and certain class balance ideas and MMR reworks (such as rating floors) fall under the first.

The people doing class balance probably aren’t the same guys who add DX 12 support. All of you saying there is more important things for them to do please tell me what their infrastructure team has on their plate that is more important than implementing something that can improve performance. What other thing can they do to help with the lag besides upgrading all their server/network equipment or raising the required specs to run the game. The change to particle effects and animations is one thing they did. While it is a step in the right direction if they keep going that route GW2 will no longer be thought of as one the better looking MMOs. Adding DX12 will compliment that change.

Not more important per se but easier and cheaper to implement. Yes the teams are different but the company overall gives priority to problems it can solve. Yeah you can have perfect class balance but if optimization is terrible it won’t matter since framerates would tank and random DC’s happen. Yes they should improve optimization and have with the 64-bit client but there are less expensive and more practical ways than moving to a whole new API. I’m personally all for them transitioning to DirectX11 or 12 but let’s be realistic.

2016 will be a year of dramatic computer performance improvement on all fronts: you’ll have Arctic Islands and Pascal GPUs that use HBM2 (server and consumer grades), Cannonlake, and the normalization of NVMe SSD’s so server tech should see radical improvements on the hardware front.

The optimization with the 64-bit client has gone from terrible to acceptable, but there are some bigger problems now such as class balance. Agree though that DirectX 9 wasn’t a smart move, I installed my driver CD and it blanked out DirectX 9 and said my operating system doesn’t support it. When I play Guild Wars 2 I run it in 7 compatability mode by default since I’m on 10.

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

HAHAHA huge fail and nice try with your spin once again and ignoring what one says. Like I asked give me some real prove and not what some Dev said on Reddit. Even the said Dev truly doesn’t know how it will perform until they add it also DX 12 removes some of those bottleneck’s he is talking about.

If it evidence as the dev is one in a position to know the GW2 engine. They know it’s structure and what the issues are as they stated in their post. You also claim that same dev also said in the post that they wouldn’t know how it will perform until they add it. I don’t see that so did you make it up?

Listen I didn’t make up anything, just more of your spin tactics, Did the Dev post any benchmarks to back up any of their claims? Nope, not one benchmark posted to compare the performance difference between DX 9 to DX12 on gw2 engine. One last time no one will truly know how it will perfume till they try it, till then talk is cheap without bench marks to back any of it up.

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

HAHAHA huge fail and nice try with your spin once again and ignoring what one says. Like I asked give me some real prove and not what some Dev said on Reddit. Even the said Dev truly doesn’t know how it will perform until they add it also DX 12 removes some of those bottleneck’s he is talking about.

If it evidence as the dev is one in a position to know the GW2 engine. They know it’s structure and what the issues are as they stated in their post. You also claim that same dev also said in the post that they wouldn’t know how it will perform until they add it. I don’t see that so did you make it up?

Listen I didn’t make up anything, just more of your spin tactics, Did the Dev post any benchmarks to back up any of their claims? Nope, not one benchmark posted to compare the performance difference between DX 9 to DX12 on gw2 engine. One last time no one will truly know how it will perfume till they try it, till then talk is cheap without bench marks to back any of it up.

If you didn’t make it up then point to where they stated that instead of doing your spin tactics.

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

HAHAHA huge fail and nice try with your spin once again and ignoring what one says. Like I asked give me some real prove and not what some Dev said on Reddit. Even the said Dev truly doesn’t know how it will perform until they add it also DX 12 removes some of those bottleneck’s he is talking about.

If it evidence as the dev is one in a position to know the GW2 engine. They know it’s structure and what the issues are as they stated in their post. You also claim that same dev also said in the post that they wouldn’t know how it will perform until they add it. I don’t see that so did you make it up?

Listen I didn’t make up anything, just more of your spin tactics, Did the Dev post any benchmarks to back up any of their claims? Nope, not one benchmark posted to compare the performance difference between DX 9 to DX12 on gw2 engine. One last time no one will truly know how it will perfume till they try it, till then talk is cheap without bench marks to back any of it up.

If you didn’t make it up then point to where they stated that instead of doing your spin tactics.

My spin tactics? looooooooooooooooooool what ever I’m done with you and your nonsense.

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

HAHAHA huge fail and nice try with your spin once again and ignoring what one says. Like I asked give me some real prove and not what some Dev said on Reddit. Even the said Dev truly doesn’t know how it will perform until they add it also DX 12 removes some of those bottleneck’s he is talking about.

If it evidence as the dev is one in a position to know the GW2 engine. They know it’s structure and what the issues are as they stated in their post. You also claim that same dev also said in the post that they wouldn’t know how it will perform until they add it. I don’t see that so did you make it up?

Listen I didn’t make up anything, just more of your spin tactics, Did the Dev post any benchmarks to back up any of their claims? Nope, not one benchmark posted to compare the performance difference between DX 9 to DX12 on gw2 engine. One last time no one will truly know how it will perfume till they try it, till then talk is cheap without bench marks to back any of it up.

If you didn’t make it up then point to where they stated that instead of doing your spin tactics.

My spin tactics? looooooooooooooooooool what ever I’m done with you and your nonsense.

You still haven’t answered the question. Stalling?

JediYoda.1275:

Listen I didn’t make up anything, just more of your spin tactics, Did the Dev post any benchmarks to back up any of their claims? Nope, not one benchmark posted to compare the performance difference between DX 9 to DX12 on gw2 engine. One last time no one will truly know how it will perfume till they try it, till then talk is cheap without bench marks to back any of it up.

You don’t need to test properly a thing to know if the upgrade is worth or not. As long as you know how the overall system works and if that area if a bottleneck or not, you can predict the behavior.
You’re asking how better a 6700k would be over a 2600k in a system paired with a 8800 gt playing at 1440p…

Btw, that isn’t “just” a dev, but more a lead programmer engineer.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

fireflyry.7023:

God no.

My old piece of kitten rig runs this game smooth as silk. My GPU doesn’t even know DX12 exists. Shhhhhh.

Seriously though if you want a DX11+ game don’t play one that was released over 3 years ago.

10 year old games like DDO that launched with DX 9 support, have added 10 and 11. Is it just that none of you have faith in Arenanet to add DX12 support?

It’s not that we don’t have faith. But some of us understand as a software developers on large projects that devoting the resources toward a major rework of the game engine to dynamically scale for multiple cores and data classes as tread safe versions. Now they were looking for someone who is experienced in multiple APIs and someone with that skill set could be someone who could outline at least how to structure a new engine that could be compatible across various versions of Dx as well as maybe cross platform for a true Mac version.

And as for DDO, Turbine use the engine across multiple MMOs and they added Dx10 back when both games were still subscription based. And Dx11 features they added were minor at best but they get to say they are using it.

That ol noob.7083:

…If ANET were to rewrite gw2 in dx12….

That’s where I stopped reading

Seriously, tell me a game that, in the entire history of videogames, gained a “REAL” boost in performance when running under a newer dx version.
There is none. Because you have to code it from the start with the new instructions in mind to take full advantage from them.
And already released game usually support newer dx only to offer some better graphic effects and little more.
The only time when I saw a “little” boost in performance in general from one dx version to another was maybe from 6.1 to 7, but we’re talkin about nearly 20 years ago, when dx were not the only standard and their 3D support was at the beginning

Imagine that 50 players are directly connecting to your PC with mouses and keyboards instead through the server. Players inputs and animation are done by CPU. How DX12 can improve this performance? There is a massive data table of players and mobs need to be constantly updated. Each data records are updated in real time through record locking and unlocking. Even if they are multi thread safe, mostly like a lot them are waiting for full access of the affected players and mobs records.

My game runs just fine on the 64 bit client. Don’t fix what’s not broken.

Dreamslayer.7659:

I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?

From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.

Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.

The proof is in the pudding. Just a few examples:
1. 90-360 camera rotations incur huge FPS drops for a huge majority of the player base.
2. Every ten feet in new LA has an FPS vortex that more or less crash unfortunate folk. (This applies to a ton of locations, LA is just a good example)
3. Heart of thorns map stability is about as strong as a limp noodle.
The list goes on.

I’m not one to talk trash on Anet, but you have to be wearing rose-tinted glasses to not see how poorly optimized this game really is.

Sounds like there are a lot of people with kitten rigs. I have no issues with fps or game stability so it’s hard to sympathize.

Behellagh.1468:

beefjus.9347:

I wouldn’t mind it so much if it took full advantage of my FX8350’s 8 cores…but no…it doesn’t.

EDIT: If there is a way for the game to take advantage of all 8 cores, please tell me.

There isn’t. The game engine only has two major threads and a handful of minor threads. What hurts the FX series (well anything that uses the Bulldozer architecture) is your per core performance isn’t all that great.

Which is why I’m switching to an i5 6600k next year. My FX 8350 has served me well for the past four and a half years, but it’s almost time for an upgrade. It won’t go to waste though, cause I’ll be using it for a Steam Machine build.

Miserymachine.7512:

Sounds like there are a lot of people with kitten rigs. I have no issues with fps or game stability so it’s hard to sympathize.

The problem is there! Dx12 is not the solution, nor the wishful thinking of rewriting a whole game while there’s a stack of things to fix/improve for a chance of little improvement.

I am one of those who could run core smoothly and HoT looked like a slideshow (until yesterday) … until yesterday cause I was concerned about it as it affected my gameplay enormously … what I found was … you have to basically disable reflections … additionally lowered depth of rendering only cause another problem I found yesterday on the technical forums… the system requirements page for gw2 was removed …. apparently 4gb of ram is no longer enough… so I will have to have to loose a bit until I can get another 4gb to be able to do jumping puzzles

They have the metrics we don’t. How many of us are on Windows 10? How many of us have a DX12-ready GPU? These things would need to be factored into the pros and cons of performing a engine upgrade. Would it be worth it in the current market?

Better yet, they could perhaps offload more graphical things to where it belongs, the GPU. And not be so overly reliant on CPU overloading. That is where the game has “problems”. Not the lack of DX12.

kuritsutian.2987:

The problem is there! Dx12 is not the solution, nor the wishful thinking of rewriting a whole game while there’s a stack of things to fix/improve for a chance of little improvement.

I am one of those who could run core smoothly and HoT looked like a slideshow (until yesterday) … until yesterday cause I was concerned about it as it affected my gameplay enormously … what I found was … you have to basically disable reflections … additionally lowered depth of rendering only cause another problem I found yesterday on the technical forums… the system requirements page for gw2 was removed …. apparently 4gb of ram is no longer enough… so I will have to have to loose a bit until I can get another 4gb to be able to do jumping puzzles

well, actually…

there are people on this forum that uses sli/crossfire configurations.

Many features might be cheaper especially on amd cards.

If anet go insane enough, they can implement OSR but I doubt they would.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2015/10/27/ashes-of-the-singularity-makes-gaming-history-with-directx-12.aspx

Moving to dx12 is not just a performance request but a complete feature request. I kinda understand why people might want it but it will take tons of time.

Absconditus.6804:

They have the metrics we don’t. How many of us are on Windows 10? How many of us have a DX12-ready GPU? These things would need to be factored into the pros and cons of performing a engine upgrade. Would it be worth it in the current market?

Better yet, they could perhaps offload more graphical things to where it belongs, the GPU. And not be so overly reliant on CPU overloading. That is where the game has “problems”. Not the lack of DX12.

Anet has already come out and said that the graphic thread and graphic stuff is not the bottleneck. So, your statement is kinda wrong.

Hmmm, I wonder if some optimizations requires breaking up the combat system. I can only wonder.

Each application has a thread known as the main thread. For games that thread is usually the thread that’s in the driver’s seat of the frame. It determines what to process and when on a higher level, such as “process OS messages”, “update the game state”, “process animations”, “send state to the render thread”, etc. All the different things that go into a game frame. The majority of game engines do some of these on a different thread, but in many cases the main thread still determines when it should happen.
So since threads are useful for scaling things, you’d think that you could simply create more threads and get more work done. But while it’s true that you have more computing power with more threads, threads also have downsides. For one, you cannot modify data in memory while another thread is reading that same data. In order to do this one thread has to wait for the other to stop using the data, meaning work is done in serial even if the code itself is running on multiple threads. To make matters worse, the OS is not guaranteed to put a thread back to work the very moment the other thread has finished. It can actually take a long-ish time (long being a very relative term). Due to this, software engineers are forced to properly design their applications to work well in parallel. Doing this after the fact is usually on the range of non-trivial to very hard.
Which brings us to GW2. GW2 does a lot of processing, and much of it is done on the main thread. That is also where its bottleneck tends to be: The main thread. There are conscious efforts in moving things off the main thread and onto other threads (every now and then a patch goes out that does just this), but due to how multi-threading works it’s a non-trivial thing that take a lot of effort to do. In a perfect world, we could say “Hey main thread, give the other threads some stuff to do if you’re too busy”, but sadly this is not that world.
As for DX9 and 32bit: Moving off of DX9 wouldn’t buy us a whole lot performance wise, as all interaction with DirectX is happening on the render thread, which is generally not the bottleneck. Moving from 32-bit to 64-bit also does not really buy us a lot performance-wise. There are some optimizations the compiler is able to do with 64-bit that it can’t do otherwise, but the actual FPS gain is minimal at best.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

Absconditus.6804:

They have the metrics we don’t. How many of us are on Windows 10? How many of us have a DX12-ready GPU? These things would need to be factored into the pros and cons of performing a engine upgrade. Would it be worth it in the current market?

Better yet, they could perhaps offload more graphical things to where it belongs, the GPU. And not be so overly reliant on CPU overloading. That is where the game has “problems”. Not the lack of DX12.

If DX12 delivers on everything Microsoft says it can do then I would say it would be worth it, plus DX12 is backwards compatible.

Right here address your concern of CPU overloading.

The first half involves a big reduction in CPU overheads when running games, with Microsoft insisting DX12 will cut CPU loads by 50 per cent, which is frankly an epic number.

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing/pc/how-directx-12-is-set-to-supercharge-pc-gaming-1235819

http://www.vg247.com/2015/02/09/directx-12-early-tests-0-performance-increase-on-amd-gpus-0-on-nvidia/

According to the report, the demo manages those impressive results on DirectX 12 because the API eliminates the CPU bottleneck by scaling very well with all available CPU cores, something which most APIs have been struggling to do on PC for years. As a result, the load is balanced across all CPU cores, increasing the performance and utilising up to four cores..

They did upgrade GW1 to DX 9 from DX8 so it’s not like they haven’t done it before and back then I don’t know if it was worth it at that time or not.

When Arenanet announced Guild Wars 2 they said GW2 DX10 will be supported but not required. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2648228&postcount=194 No evidence that GW2 is using DX10 that I have seen.

Yes they have metrics of every players systems and at some point they have to stop catering to players with really low end specs if they want longevity out of their game. The Dev’s mind set of wanting players to play on really low systems so they can get a larger player base is holding Arenanet & game back from its full potential.

All sorts of articles all over the internet on DX12 and some with benchmarks to back up what Microsoft is saying and some of you are rather believe what some Dev said on Reddit without anything to back up his claim. SMH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

But what really is required to update a games DX version? Just update the DX API’s or the game engine itself as a whole,? I want links to said information not speculation, Because few game are set to get DX12 in patches.

edit: bonus links to those that claim no performance increase in any game from new DX version etc.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-directx-11-performance,2793-7.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/537-max-payne-3-performance/page6.html

use google if you want more

GW2 is not the same as GW1. It’s more complicated so will take many more resources than its predecessor. And all this for minimal mprovements.

You also need to realize that not all games are designed the same. When games have upgraded to a higher DX version, have they all received the EXACT same percentage boost in performance? No, they did not as evidenced by the numerous benchmarks in the past. What may boost performance greatly in one game may barely do so in another. It comes down to how it was designed (remember that GW2 is CPU intensive). And as the dev stated in the Reddit thread, going to DX12 will provide minimal improvements as the issue people are experience resides outside of the render thread.

The dev is an expert in their field with years of experience. They do not need to cite a source and especially since they were talking about GW2 specifically which there will not be a source for. Well not unless they released the source code but good luck with that.

….Why? I see this trend of people going for higher numbers and most not even realizing they don’t mean anything unless those features are used.