Discussing Mystic Coins
Oh yeah, totally forgot about WvW needs (via the GH upgrades) for mystic coins Apocolyte. Good point. Beyond that they are also needed to make a few mystic infusion recipes and food feast recipes. So it’s not only cosmetic items that requires mystic coins.
Mystic Coins .
That only works if people are willing to buy at that said price, in reality players playing the tp would notice the sudden increase in price and proceed to undercut that player to steal profits. The orginal player would be forced to wait out the sales, buy out those sales or accept the listing loss and undercut them bring price back down.
Or they might have more incentive to hold onto their coins and sell slowly as they need to because, as pointed out in this thread, Anet has created a situation where the demand of Mystic Coins greatly outweighs the supply and it’s impossible to farm them in any way (besides logging in everyday).
Demand of Mystic Coins:
> ~ 1,000 for Guild upgrades (although about 250 could be considered optional upgrades)
> ~250 for clovers for legendaries (depending on RNGesus)
> 20-50 for Infusions (optional, but still a sink)
Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Other
> Approximately 80 MF weapon recipes that require 10-100 Mystic Coins. This includes the Mystic Weapons, which are required for the new Ascended Specialization Collections
Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin/Equipment
> Feast Recipes
Supply of Mystic Coins:
> 20-25 per month per player, if you log in every day.
Result: http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19976
Anyone playing the TP with Mystic Coins has every incentive right now to hold on to them for as long as possible because the price has gone from 15s in the middle of December to 40s now. Since there is a constant demand, even if someone does “flood” the market, they will be bought out fast and the prices will keep going up.
it may be a 780 coin cost…. but its a shared burden. between 30 players thats just a mere 26 coins a person. Thats very little to no impact on people who will be spending months trying to craft legendarys. If it really is a wvw guild there shouldnt really be any issue in donating to become more effective…it can even be donating over time since it doesn’t have to completed at once.
Eh, I guess. It is a shared burden, but, like I said, WvW is already not a very profitable game mode and a lot of my friends have sunk their gold into gear, siege, food, etc. A mere 26 coins a person is still 10g per person.
Honestly, it’s not even the monetary cost that bothers me. I was going to post a separate topic, but I noticed that there was a discussion already going about Mystic Coins, so I thought I would post here. What bothers me, is that Mystic Coins have nothing to do with WvW and yet the major upgrades that every WvW guild is going to want to get requires them. Can you farm Mystic Coins in WvW? No. Can you buy them with Badges of Honor? No. Do all the guild hall upgrades need Mystic Coins? No. Just the WvW Auras and the Guild Trader, which is arguably an optional upgrade.
Someone must have just looked at those upgrades and thought “this will make a great sink for Mystic Coins,” which wouldn’t be so bad by itself. Which is probably the same amount of thought that created an upgrade that needed 50 Heavy Supply Bags that for months did not drop anywhere in the game because the mobs were removed with the old WvW maps.
But it’s just kind of another thing on top of a heap where WvWers got maps that weren’t designed with WvW in mind, that alliances are only coming about 4 years after the game has launched (even though players have complained about server population inbalance for years), because there are still horrible lag issues sometimes on EBG and during the Oasis events, because it took months for Anet to fix seizure-inducing texture bugs on upgraded objectives, because Anet’s answer to GvG (which is usually 15v15 or 20v20) is a 5v5 sPvP map, because my favorite game mode is withering and dying as players and guilds quit because they feel that WvW has been neglected for years.
Yeah, we’ll get the 780 coins eventually (probably just in time for everyone to quit), but it feels like another thoughtless decision on top of everything else. Feels like fighting an uphill battle sometimes to actually enjoy this game.
Guild upgrades are supposed to be contributed to by all members of a guild, not just one person. If you assume a WvW guild isn’t a 2-3 man guild and has around 50 active players, that’s 15-16 mystic coins per person in the guild. Or 31-32 if only half of the guild contributes. Which isn’t very long to get on an individual basis.
If you can’t get your guild to contribute items to help, then that’s a guild problem. Not a problem with the mystic coin supply.
A WvW guild that’s just starting up is lucky to get 15-20 regular players, if that (I’m on Tarnished Coast, NA T2, still a fairly populated server). Good luck trying to build a guild with 50 active players if you’re not already established. People that we’ve recruited so far are willing to donate and, like I said, we’ll get the upgrades eventually. It’s just the thoughtlessness that bothers me. Why Mystic Coins? Why not Memories of Battle (which you can actually get from rank up chests and their only sink is legendaries) or something along those lines? I know that there’s several account-bound, time-gated things associated with guild hall upgrades, and I don’t know why the coins of all things have kittened me off the most lol.
But whatever, it’s not like my rants will change anything. I was just mad this morning because after dumping about 300g on getting a guild hall and getting upgrades going, I was excited because I thought we’d finally be start working on WvW upgrades so that claiming things meant something. Little did I know that I’d have to dump another 50g just to get a stupid Magic Find Aura (but hey, maybe a percursor will finally drop, amirite?). Then there’ll be Mystic Coins aplenty.
Guild upgrades are supposed to be contributed to by all members of a guild, not just one person. If you assume a WvW guild isn’t a 2-3 man guild and has around 50 active players, that’s 15-16 mystic coins per person in the guild. Or 31-32 if only half of the guild contributes. Which isn’t very long to get on an individual basis.
If you can’t get your guild to contribute items to help, then that’s a guild problem. Not a problem with the mystic coin supply.
A WvW guild that’s just starting up is lucky to get 15-20 regular players, if that (I’m on Tarnished Coast, NA T2, still a fairly populated server). Good luck trying to build a guild with 50 active players if you’re not already established. People that we’ve recruited so far are willing to donate and, like I said, we’ll get the upgrades eventually. It’s just the thoughtlessness that bothers me. Why Mystic Coins? Why not Memories of Battle (which you can actually get from rank up chests and their only sink is legendaries) or something along those lines? I know that there’s several account-bound, time-gated things associated with guild hall upgrades, and I don’t know why the coins of all things have kittened me off the most lol.
But whatever, it’s not like my rants will change anything. I was just mad this morning because after dumping about 300g on getting a guild hall and getting upgrades going, I was excited because I thought we’d finally be start working on WvW upgrades so that claiming things meant something. Little did I know that I’d have to dump another 50g just to get a stupid Magic Find Aura (but hey, maybe a percursor will finally drop, amirite?). Then there’ll be Mystic Coins aplenty.
That’s still 39-52 mystic coins per person. Which is 1-3 months depending on how many players have and how often the Mystic Forge daily shows up during that time. Not an unreasonable amount of coins or time.
A new guild is obviously not going to have everything up and running and anyone joining a new guild should not expect everything unlocked yet.
The trade off is you get to put in input and feedback on guild policies and other things like that, that are harder to change once the guild’s very well established.
(edited by Seera.5916)
NOt everything expensive, is broken. I don’t think Mystic Coins are something they want more supply of. There was reasons the implemented sinks for them (hefty ones at that), becuase people have hundreds maybe thousands of them from a time when Mystic Coins were near useless and reflected as such on the TP. ANet want things to have value. T6 Mats have dropped drastically in price. You have to keep the economy somewhat balanced in that. So something things are going to be more scarce than others.
My opinion is that ANet decided that Mystic Coins were going to be one of those things that they wanted the bring the value up on. It’s worked. I, personally, have over 2000 mystic coins in my bank from doing dailies/monthlies in the old system and logging in every day in this one. Not everything has to be extremely cheap. Mats all over the place are dropping in price only a few of them are going up. Look at the big picture and not zero in on one item.
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NOt everything expensive, is broken. I don’t think Mystic Coins are something they want more supply of. There was reasons the implemented sinks for them (hefty ones at that), becuase people have hundreds maybe thousands of them from a time when Mystic Coins were near useless and reflected as such on the TP. ANet want things to have value. T6 Mats have dropped drastically in price. You have to keep the economy somewhat balanced in that. So something things are going to be more scarce than others.
My opinion is that ANet decided that Mystic Coins were going to be one of those things that they wanted the bring the value up on. It’s worked. I, personally, have over 2000 mystic coins in my bank from doing dailies/monthlies in the old system and logging in every day in this one. Not everything has to be extremely cheap. Mats all over the place are dropping in price only a few of them are going up. Look at the big picture and not zero in on one item.
No one has said (well maybe someone did, but then that would mean they didnt get the point of the original post either) that its broken because the price is too high. the entire point is that its broken because they have a hard capped supply that does not come close to the demand which causes, among other things, the price increase. It is entirely possible for them to implement a way to create supply through in game effort to increase accessibility while still maintaining the current or even a higher price then they are now.
NOt everything expensive, is broken. I don’t think Mystic Coins are something they want more supply of. There was reasons the implemented sinks for them (hefty ones at that), becuase people have hundreds maybe thousands of them from a time when Mystic Coins were near useless and reflected as such on the TP. ANet want things to have value. T6 Mats have dropped drastically in price. You have to keep the economy somewhat balanced in that. So something things are going to be more scarce than others.
My opinion is that ANet decided that Mystic Coins were going to be one of those things that they wanted the bring the value up on. It’s worked. I, personally, have over 2000 mystic coins in my bank from doing dailies/monthlies in the old system and logging in every day in this one. Not everything has to be extremely cheap. Mats all over the place are dropping in price only a few of them are going up. Look at the big picture and not zero in on one item.
No one has said (well maybe someone did, but then that would mean they didnt get the point of the original post either) that its broken because the price is too high. the entire point is that its broken because they have a hard capped supply that does not come close to the demand which causes, among other things, the price increase. It is entirely possible for them to implement a way to create supply through in game effort to increase accessibility while still maintaining the current or even a higher price then they are now.
You clearly do not get economics.
If you increase supply but do not change demand, prices does not go up, it goes down.
And no, it is not broken just because there is a fixed supply of mystic coins. ANet knew full well what the supply was and what the rate of mystic coin creation was when they added the things that take mystic coins with HoT. It’s not like they have to factor in the chance of too many people getting too lucky with their drops or anything. The mystic coin economy is something that ANet can control pretty well.
So let’s say that someone right now went and bought up 12,800 mystic coins which puts the lowest sell order price at 1G. Would you consider there to be an issue then?
Let’s say that person then slowly sells off the mystic coins rather than dump them back into the supply. The price hardly sees an impact from this action as a result. Would you consider there to be an issue now?
What if all of the above happens and then Anet releases something such as the fractal legendary backpack which requires about 250 mystic coins? I doubt many people who are waiting for it have already gone and gotten those coins. The price will likely go up even more. Would you now consider it to be an issue?
Again, same as everything above, but they also add three new legendary weapons. Would you now consider this an issue?
The issue is that there’s not enough supply to cover existing demand at a reasonable (debateble) rate and there most definitely isn’t enough to withstand demand shocks.
As long as they are not as expensive as amalgated gemstones I dont think they are too expensive.
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The assumption you have Ayrilana is that someone now controls the bulk amount of Mystic Coins not currently on the TP. And that’s where people who do those things get into trouble. Because it quickly becomes a question for every player sitting on a pile of Mystic Coins whether to sell off some of their hoard, knowing prices after shenanigans like this return to normal quickly. If I can make a quick 100 gold now and buy back the number I sold later at half that, the person or group that tried to corner the market is going to take a bath.
Look already it’s down significantly from the spike yesterday. Supply has recovered. Sure prices are up roughly 14% but this is almost the only way to raise a price to the level the market is willing to bear at the current supply/demand equilibrium.
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The assumption you have Ayrilana is that someone now controls the bulk amount of Mystic Coins not currently on the TP. And that’s where people who do those things get into trouble. Because it quickly becomes a question for every player sitting on a pile of Mystic Coins whether to sell off some of their hoard, knowing prices after shenanigans like this return to normal quickly. If I can make a quick 100 gold now and buy back the number I sold later at half that, the person or group that tried to corner the market is going to take a bath.
Look already it’s down significantly from the spike yesterday. Supply has recovered. Sure prices are up roughly 14% but this is almost the only way to raise a price to the level the market is willing to bear at the current supply/demand equilibrium.
Yeah I know. It’s the main reason why I didn’t just now go and do it to prove a point. I went through various scenarios to see if I could possibly break even quick enough with the higher prices but there was just too much risk to be worth it.
The assumption you have Ayrilana is that someone now controls the bulk amount of Mystic Coins not currently on the TP. And that’s where people who do those things get into trouble. Because it quickly becomes a question for every player sitting on a pile of Mystic Coins whether to sell off some of their hoard, knowing prices after shenanigans like this return to normal quickly. If I can make a quick 100 gold now and buy back the number I sold later at half that, the person or group that tried to corner the market is going to take a bath.
Look already it’s down significantly from the spike yesterday. Supply has recovered. Sure prices are up roughly 14% but this is almost the only way to raise a price to the level the market is willing to bear at the current supply/demand equilibrium.
Yeah I know. It’s the main reason why I didn’t just now go and do it to prove a point. I went through various scenarios to see if I could possibly break even quick enough with the higher prices but there was just too much risk to be worth it.
Someone buys the stock.
Someone waiting for the price to go past a price line before dumping their stock now jumps on the ability to set the price where he/she wants it.
Other players with stockpiles see this price and go: ooo, that’s a good price, I’ll sell my stack, but I want mine sold now so I’ll undercut.
The person who bought the stock initially eventually sells the stock before the price crashes too much and they can’t profit.
Assuming current price is the equilibrium price, prices eventually return to where they are now. Because that’s the law of supply and demand. It won’t necessarily happen quickly, but it will eventually reach the equilibrium price.
There’s an equilibrium price with the current supply and demand.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
Which as I understand this thread is the point, that supply needs to be increased at some point.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
The assumption you have Ayrilana is that someone now controls the bulk amount of Mystic Coins not currently on the TP. And that’s where people who do those things get into trouble. Because it quickly becomes a question for every player sitting on a pile of Mystic Coins whether to sell off some of their hoard, knowing prices after shenanigans like this return to normal quickly. If I can make a quick 100 gold now and buy back the number I sold later at half that, the person or group that tried to corner the market is going to take a bath.
Look already it’s down significantly from the spike yesterday. Supply has recovered. Sure prices are up roughly 14% but this is almost the only way to raise a price to the level the market is willing to bear at the current supply/demand equilibrium.
Yeah I know. It’s the main reason why I didn’t just now go and do it to prove a point. I went through various scenarios to see if I could possibly break even quick enough with the higher prices but there was just too much risk to be worth it.
Someone buys the stock.
Someone waiting for the price to go past a price line before dumping their stock now jumps on the ability to set the price where he/she wants it.
Other players with stockpiles see this price and go: ooo, that’s a good price, I’ll sell my stack, but I want mine sold now so I’ll undercut.
The person who bought the stock initially eventually sells the stock before the price crashes too much and they can’t profit.
Assuming current price is the equilibrium price, prices eventually return to where they are now. Because that’s the law of supply and demand. It won’t necessarily happen quickly, but it will eventually reach the equilibrium price.
Yep. People who have them stockpiled were one such risk as were those who chose to sell their coins from the daily rewards rather than keep them. I couldn’t see myself breaking even quick enough for that reason. Making a profit wasn’t a concern but I wasn’t prepared to take a loss to make the point.
Right now new supply (not held by players) is at a fixed rate. Demand for the coins are fairly high as they’re used for legendary weapons and quite a number of mystic forge recipes. Price has been steadily rising since last month with supply levels dropping. It may have hit equilibrium the beginning of last week but it’s difficult to say. The player(s) who bought a bunch made things sporadic the past few days.
When the next batch of legendary weapons are released, you can be sure that the price for coins will go up. The same can be said about the legendary fractal backpack. This will shift everything to a new level which they will probably not fall back down to how they are now.
Someone buying up a lot of supply to drive up prices does take time to settle back down. Sometime prices go back to where they were and other times they remain slightly elevated. Imagine if someone were to buy up supply just before legendary weapons or backpack were released. Demand would have increased, there would be less people who would be inclined to sell their coins, and a percentage of any supply that got dumped would have been absorbed by the new demand. The price recovering would now be slower.
What if Anet released the next batch a few months after that before prices had settled? It would be an endless cycle of prices going up and then falling back down without reaching previous levels so long as they keep adding new uses for the coins. And during this time, those that need to use them, will struggle because of it. The coins are used for many other recipes other than to make legendary weapons.
There’s an equilibrium price with the current supply and demand.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
Which as I understand this thread is the point, that supply needs to be increased at some point.
Yes. That’s what I’m trying to get at. I’m not saying that it’s currently bad but at some point in the future it will be.
The assumption you have Ayrilana is that someone now controls the bulk amount of Mystic Coins not currently on the TP. And that’s where people who do those things get into trouble. Because it quickly becomes a question for every player sitting on a pile of Mystic Coins whether to sell off some of their hoard, knowing prices after shenanigans like this return to normal quickly. If I can make a quick 100 gold now and buy back the number I sold later at half that, the person or group that tried to corner the market is going to take a bath.
Look already it’s down significantly from the spike yesterday. Supply has recovered. Sure prices are up roughly 14% but this is almost the only way to raise a price to the level the market is willing to bear at the current supply/demand equilibrium.
Yeah I know. It’s the main reason why I didn’t just now go and do it to prove a point. I went through various scenarios to see if I could possibly break even quick enough with the higher prices but there was just too much risk to be worth it.
Someone buys the stock.
Someone waiting for the price to go past a price line before dumping their stock now jumps on the ability to set the price where he/she wants it.
Other players with stockpiles see this price and go: ooo, that’s a good price, I’ll sell my stack, but I want mine sold now so I’ll undercut.
The person who bought the stock initially eventually sells the stock before the price crashes too much and they can’t profit.
Assuming current price is the equilibrium price, prices eventually return to where they are now. Because that’s the law of supply and demand. It won’t necessarily happen quickly, but it will eventually reach the equilibrium price.
Yep. People who have them stockpiled were one such risk as were those who chose to sell their coins from the daily rewards rather than keep them. I couldn’t see myself breaking even quick enough for that reason. Making a profit wasn’t a concern but I wasn’t prepared to take a loss to make the point.
Right now new supply (not held by players) is at a fixed rate. Demand for the coins are fairly high as they’re used for legendary weapons and quite a number of mystic forge recipes. Price has been steadily rising since last month with supply levels dropping. It may have hit equilibrium the beginning of last week but it’s difficult to say. The player(s) who bought a bunch made things sporadic the past few days.
When the next batch of legendary weapons are released, you can be sure that the price for coins will go up. The same can be said about the legendary fractal backpack. This will shift everything to a new level which they will probably not fall back down to how they are now.
Someone buying up a lot of supply to drive up prices does take time to settle back down. Sometime prices go back to where they were and other times they remain slightly elevated. Imagine if someone were to buy up supply just before legendary weapons or backpack were released. Demand would have increased, there would be less people who would be inclined to sell their coins, and a percentage of any supply that got dumped would have been absorbed by the new demand. The price recovering would now be slower.
What if Anet released the next batch a few months after that before prices had settled? It would be an endless cycle of prices going up and then falling back down without reaching previous levels so long as they keep adding new uses for the coins. And during this time, those that need to use them, will struggle because of it. The coins are used for many other recipes other than to make legendary weapons.
There’s an equilibrium price with the current supply and demand.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
Which as I understand this thread is the point, that supply needs to be increased at some point.
Yes. That’s what I’m trying to get at. I’m not saying that it’s currently bad but at some point in the future it will be.
And it might not ever be a problem even if ANet never changes anything related to Mystic Coins again. Given how guild upgrades and legendaries are more long term goals, I would say it’s still too soon to determine if we’re at a higher than normal demand for mystic coins or not. Demand could go down in the next few months.
And for all we know, ANet has it set like this to purge a lot of the supply to bring price where they want it to be before making the rate of generation of coins be equal to the rate of consumption. Like a controlled fire in a forest to promote growth. Something that at first glance looks like a problem, but actually isn’t as long as someone’s monitoring the situation.
The assumption you have Ayrilana is that someone now controls the bulk amount of Mystic Coins not currently on the TP. And that’s where people who do those things get into trouble. Because it quickly becomes a question for every player sitting on a pile of Mystic Coins whether to sell off some of their hoard, knowing prices after shenanigans like this return to normal quickly. If I can make a quick 100 gold now and buy back the number I sold later at half that, the person or group that tried to corner the market is going to take a bath.
Look already it’s down significantly from the spike yesterday. Supply has recovered. Sure prices are up roughly 14% but this is almost the only way to raise a price to the level the market is willing to bear at the current supply/demand equilibrium.
Yeah I know. It’s the main reason why I didn’t just now go and do it to prove a point. I went through various scenarios to see if I could possibly break even quick enough with the higher prices but there was just too much risk to be worth it.
Someone buys the stock.
Someone waiting for the price to go past a price line before dumping their stock now jumps on the ability to set the price where he/she wants it.
Other players with stockpiles see this price and go: ooo, that’s a good price, I’ll sell my stack, but I want mine sold now so I’ll undercut.
The person who bought the stock initially eventually sells the stock before the price crashes too much and they can’t profit.
Assuming current price is the equilibrium price, prices eventually return to where they are now. Because that’s the law of supply and demand. It won’t necessarily happen quickly, but it will eventually reach the equilibrium price.
Yep. People who have them stockpiled were one such risk as were those who chose to sell their coins from the daily rewards rather than keep them. I couldn’t see myself breaking even quick enough for that reason. Making a profit wasn’t a concern but I wasn’t prepared to take a loss to make the point.
Right now new supply (not held by players) is at a fixed rate. Demand for the coins are fairly high as they’re used for legendary weapons and quite a number of mystic forge recipes. Price has been steadily rising since last month with supply levels dropping. It may have hit equilibrium the beginning of last week but it’s difficult to say. The player(s) who bought a bunch made things sporadic the past few days.
When the next batch of legendary weapons are released, you can be sure that the price for coins will go up. The same can be said about the legendary fractal backpack. This will shift everything to a new level which they will probably not fall back down to how they are now.
Someone buying up a lot of supply to drive up prices does take time to settle back down. Sometime prices go back to where they were and other times they remain slightly elevated. Imagine if someone were to buy up supply just before legendary weapons or backpack were released. Demand would have increased, there would be less people who would be inclined to sell their coins, and a percentage of any supply that got dumped would have been absorbed by the new demand. The price recovering would now be slower.
What if Anet released the next batch a few months after that before prices had settled? It would be an endless cycle of prices going up and then falling back down without reaching previous levels so long as they keep adding new uses for the coins. And during this time, those that need to use them, will struggle because of it. The coins are used for many other recipes other than to make legendary weapons.
There’s an equilibrium price with the current supply and demand.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
Which as I understand this thread is the point, that supply needs to be increased at some point.
Yes. That’s what I’m trying to get at. I’m not saying that it’s currently bad but at some point in the future it will be.
And it might not ever be a problem even if ANet never changes anything related to Mystic Coins again. Given how guild upgrades and legendaries are more long term goals, I would say it’s still too soon to determine if we’re at a higher than normal demand for mystic coins or not. Demand could go down in the next few months.
And for all we know, ANet has it set like this to purge a lot of the supply to bring price where they want it to be before making the rate of generation of coins be equal to the rate of consumption. Like a controlled fire in a forest to promote growth. Something that at first glance looks like a problem, but actually isn’t as long as someone’s monitoring the situation.
Seriously people start reading threads before you write some kitten stuff in them. Around 50% of posts here are from people that have no idea at all and are just writing because they are bored.
Again for all the non reading kids: Noone cares about your stupid legendary or guild upgrade! For these two mystic coin price is fine and could be doubled and still noone should care!
The problem is that mystic coins are needed for ~250 mf recipes (lvl15 up to lvl500 recipes), there are ~100 mf only weapon skins that can only be created with mystic coins (like eternal sands), there are some couple hundret other items and upgrades that need mystic coins!!!
Only because most people are to lazy to look up from where or how their weapons are created, doesn’t mean that we all aren’t massively hurt by increasing mystic coin prices.
Mystic coins have been an undervalued item since gw2 release.
Not because you didn’t need them! They have been undervalued because 99% of the player base is —-———. I know that because I made thousands of gold two years ago by crafting mystic coin items (for less than 1g) and sellling these for 30g. Now this doesn’t work since HoT (which is totally fine), but now these crap items are really costing ~40g each and their price is raising fast (because of mystic coins).
So again the problem is that now ~300+ beginner items and base food cost ~40-50g and these are still raising fast. So 1g each mystic coin will be fine for guild halls and legy’s, but IT’S NOT FINE for hundrets of low lvl beginner items!
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The 2nd big run on standing supply that spiked the price came with the Wintersday 2015 patch. Not sure why but supply went from 176K to 20K in a day.
Probably due to the fact that people buy some of this stuff (mystic coins for this prime example) without realizing how much time/resources are needed to get said item. I have done the same thing before with a couple of different items. Including those items from Season 1 of Living World that were in limited supply (thanks to it being temporary content). For instance the Spinal Blade Pack Cores I still have 10 each type, because I never got around at getting high enough ascended crafting (at the time). Look how expensive those things are now.
It happened because Winter’s Presence requires 150 Mystic coins.
Also I made this exact same thread when Wintersday hit, which further caused the supply to tank.
People will still buy them at 10g/coin even for the new legendarys.
Why?
Cause there are things called credit cards.
[MYTH] The Mythical Dragons -PvX http://mythdragons.enjin.com
The assumption you have Ayrilana is that someone now controls the bulk amount of Mystic Coins not currently on the TP. And that’s where people who do those things get into trouble. Because it quickly becomes a question for every player sitting on a pile of Mystic Coins whether to sell off some of their hoard, knowing prices after shenanigans like this return to normal quickly. If I can make a quick 100 gold now and buy back the number I sold later at half that, the person or group that tried to corner the market is going to take a bath.
Look already it’s down significantly from the spike yesterday. Supply has recovered. Sure prices are up roughly 14% but this is almost the only way to raise a price to the level the market is willing to bear at the current supply/demand equilibrium.
Yeah I know. It’s the main reason why I didn’t just now go and do it to prove a point. I went through various scenarios to see if I could possibly break even quick enough with the higher prices but there was just too much risk to be worth it.
Someone buys the stock.
Someone waiting for the price to go past a price line before dumping their stock now jumps on the ability to set the price where he/she wants it.
Other players with stockpiles see this price and go: ooo, that’s a good price, I’ll sell my stack, but I want mine sold now so I’ll undercut.
The person who bought the stock initially eventually sells the stock before the price crashes too much and they can’t profit.
Assuming current price is the equilibrium price, prices eventually return to where they are now. Because that’s the law of supply and demand. It won’t necessarily happen quickly, but it will eventually reach the equilibrium price.
Yep. People who have them stockpiled were one such risk as were those who chose to sell their coins from the daily rewards rather than keep them. I couldn’t see myself breaking even quick enough for that reason. Making a profit wasn’t a concern but I wasn’t prepared to take a loss to make the point.
Right now new supply (not held by players) is at a fixed rate. Demand for the coins are fairly high as they’re used for legendary weapons and quite a number of mystic forge recipes. Price has been steadily rising since last month with supply levels dropping. It may have hit equilibrium the beginning of last week but it’s difficult to say. The player(s) who bought a bunch made things sporadic the past few days.
When the next batch of legendary weapons are released, you can be sure that the price for coins will go up. The same can be said about the legendary fractal backpack. This will shift everything to a new level which they will probably not fall back down to how they are now.
Someone buying up a lot of supply to drive up prices does take time to settle back down. Sometime prices go back to where they were and other times they remain slightly elevated. Imagine if someone were to buy up supply just before legendary weapons or backpack were released. Demand would have increased, there would be less people who would be inclined to sell their coins, and a percentage of any supply that got dumped would have been absorbed by the new demand. The price recovering would now be slower.
What if Anet released the next batch a few months after that before prices had settled? It would be an endless cycle of prices going up and then falling back down without reaching previous levels so long as they keep adding new uses for the coins. And during this time, those that need to use them, will struggle because of it. The coins are used for many other recipes other than to make legendary weapons.
There’s an equilibrium price with the current supply and demand.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
And a new higher equilibrium price with higher demand and same supply with the next set of Legendaries.
Which as I understand this thread is the point, that supply needs to be increased at some point.
Yes. That’s what I’m trying to get at. I’m not saying that it’s currently bad but at some point in the future it will be.
And it might not ever be a problem even if ANet never changes anything related to Mystic Coins again. Given how guild upgrades and legendaries are more long term goals, I would say it’s still too soon to determine if we’re at a higher than normal demand for mystic coins or not. Demand could go down in the next few months.
And for all we know, ANet has it set like this to purge a lot of the supply to bring price where they want it to be before making the rate of generation of coins be equal to the rate of consumption. Like a controlled fire in a forest to promote growth. Something that at first glance looks like a problem, but actually isn’t as long as someone’s monitoring the situation.
Seriously people start reading threads before you write some kitten stuff in them. Around 50% of posts here are from people that have no idea at all and are just writing because they are bored.
Again for all the non reading kids: Noone cares about your stupid legendary or guild upgrade! For these two mystic coin price is fine and could be doubled and still noone should care!
The problem is that mystic coins are needed for ~250 mf recipes (lvl15 up to lvl500 recipes), there are ~100 mf only weapon skins that can only be created with mystic coins (like eternal sands), there are some couple hundret other items and upgrades that need mystic coins!!!Only because most people are to lazy to look up from where or how their weapons are created, doesn’t mean that we all aren’t massively hurt by increasing mystic coin prices.
Mystic coins have been an undervalued item since gw2 release.
Not because you didn’t need them! They have been undervalued because 99% of the player base is —-———. I know that because I made thousands of gold two years ago by crafting mystic coin items (for less than 1g) and sellling these for 30g. Now this doesn’t work since HoT (which is totally fine), but now these crap items are really costing ~40g each and their price is raising fast (because of mystic coins).
So again the problem is that now ~300+ beginner items and base food cost ~40-50g and these are still raising fast. So 1g each mystic coin will be fine for guild halls and legy’s, but IT’S NOT FINE for hundrets of low lvl beginner items!
And maybe those are supposed to be long term goal items, too.
And.maybe you should stop and realize that we do read the posts, but realize that any change done to the mystic coin economy has to take into consideration the guild upgrades and the legendary. And that these two are probably the main points they are balanced around, with consideration given to the other items that use it.
So please, stop assuming that we don’t read the posts when we done mention every recipe that uses the mystic coins, but instead only talk about the two main ones. Thank you.
Heck I would be even happier if they reached 20g/coin.
The end result is either recipe costs will change or more supply added.
[MYTH] The Mythical Dragons -PvX http://mythdragons.enjin.com
NOt everything expensive, is broken. I don’t think Mystic Coins are something they want more supply of. There was reasons the implemented sinks for them (hefty ones at that), becuase people have hundreds maybe thousands of them from a time when Mystic Coins were near useless and reflected as such on the TP. ANet want things to have value. T6 Mats have dropped drastically in price. You have to keep the economy somewhat balanced in that. So something things are going to be more scarce than others.
My opinion is that ANet decided that Mystic Coins were going to be one of those things that they wanted the bring the value up on. It’s worked. I, personally, have over 2000 mystic coins in my bank from doing dailies/monthlies in the old system and logging in every day in this one. Not everything has to be extremely cheap. Mats all over the place are dropping in price only a few of them are going up. Look at the big picture and not zero in on one item.
No one has said (well maybe someone did, but then that would mean they didnt get the point of the original post either) that its broken because the price is too high. the entire point is that its broken because they have a hard capped supply that does not come close to the demand which causes, among other things, the price increase. It is entirely possible for them to implement a way to create supply through in game effort to increase accessibility while still maintaining the current or even a higher price then they are now.
You clearly do not get economics.
If you increase supply but do not change demand, prices does not go up, it goes down.
And no, it is not broken just because there is a fixed supply of mystic coins. ANet knew full well what the supply was and what the rate of mystic coin creation was when they added the things that take mystic coins with HoT. It’s not like they have to factor in the chance of too many people getting too lucky with their drops or anything. The mystic coin economy is something that ANet can control pretty well.
No, I do understand economics. I didnt say they should specifically increase supply, I said they should increase accessibility. Simply increasing supply by adding them to map rewards, increasing daily login rewards, or some other means of more or less handing them out is a simple increase in supply that would cause a price drop. Thats not what I am talking about.
What I proposed they do was to increase accessibility by using other things that already hold value and have alternative uses in a means of creating mystic at a cost at or above the current TP value. Would this at least initially decrease the price of coins? probably. but over time as those constituent materials/currencies and mystic coins reach a new equilibrium, if the amounts are properly balanced it would retain either current or even higher prices on the TP (higher because coins are still increasing anyway and will go up further each time new recipes are released) at the new equilibrium but still allow new supply to be created in response to further increasing prices.
The most basic and mindless example (and not what I would propose at all) would be a vender that sells mystic coins at 50s each. Accessibility increased as supply can be created in response to prices over 50s, do prices decrease from their current level (mid 30s) because a new mode of acquisition no.
using a recipe would result in a “floating cap” on the price that fluctuates with the value of those other materials/currencies.
Yes, supply and demand still function. But when you have an absolutely fixed supply the ONLY things that can change is the demand or the price. When new uses are released the demand increases as people want new items. But supply cannot increase, so the price increases to a new equilibrium point and/or demand decreases. But how can demand possibly decrease? people stop using them. They cut out an entire category of in game goals, those using mystic coins because they have no recourse. (I am talking long run here as new players begin crafting things and old players finish, not initial crafting spikes and prices well over the current ones)
That was the entire point of precursor crafting, to maintain the value of precursors on the market but increase accessibility through crafting them (yes they have ended up coming down a bit from their highest sustained points in august/september of 2014, but they have been roughly the same for about a year with a drop when HoT released but prices have been recovering some since then.)
In a real economy, people can innovate responses to increases in prices, find alternatives, alternative sources of the same thing etc etc. Not here. Here mystic coins is a resource for which individuals must compete with other individuals if they want to make anything requiring them is a reasonable amount of time. Thats something that is contrary to the design goals of GW2.
(edited by That Guy.5704)
Heck I would be even happier if they reached 20g/coin.
The end result is either recipe costs will change or more supply added.
20g each???? You must be crazy. Why buy them for 20g when you can buy them from me for only 19g. *
(*This offer expires in 7 days.)
It could be even better – how about you can buy mystic coins only via the BLTC or the TP. There is no reason for them to drop in game.
[MYTH] The Mythical Dragons -PvX http://mythdragons.enjin.com
Critical crafting mats will never be BLTC because that would clearly be B2W or very least a direct cash grab and in bad form. If a supply shortage becomes an issue, they’ll drop in another way to get them.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Scarcity is important
John Smith
I want to be up front: scarcity is important. For most materials in the game, we’ve reached a nice equilibrium
And this might tell you whether or not they’ll ever increase supply. Mystic coins are positioned to be a way to limit production of “elite” items such as Legendaries or the other high priced and rare weapons through the simple fact of only so many per month are generated and available.
imo, they literally don’t want every Tom, Richard or Harry running around with easily gotten and cheap “elite” items. They want the dividing line, the things that keep these items scarce. If so, then they want mystic coins to go up higher in price to act as the limiting factor in “elite” item production both by price and by number available. In this case, mystic coin prices are going to go up, with ANet’s blessing and approval.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)
Half tempted to buy up what’s left to prove a point and see if Anet takes action in an upcoming update or at least acknowledges the issue.
Except me and many others are sitting on stacks of coins and would profit greatly if you were to do so – by waiting for you to post and gently undercutting you.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Half tempted to buy up what’s left to prove a point and see if Anet takes action in an upcoming update or at least acknowledges the issue.
Except me and many others are sitting on stacks of coins and would profit greatly if you were to do so – by waiting for you to post and gently undercutting you.
Yep. That’s why it wouldn’t be a great idea to do it while demand has been relatively stable. Now to do it once new legendary weapons and the backpack are released may be something else but I cannot see myself doing it at this time.
Scarcity is important
John Smith
I want to be up front: scarcity is important. For most materials in the game, we’ve reached a nice equilibriumAnd this might tell you whether or not they’ll ever increase supply. Mystic coins are positioned to be a way to limit production of “elite” items such as Legendaries or the other high priced and rare weapons through the simple fact of only so many per month are generated and available.
imo, they literally don’t want every Tom, Richard or Harry running around with easily gotten and cheap “elite” items. They want the dividing line, the things that keep these items scarce. If so, then they want mystic coins to go up higher in price to act as the limiting factor in “elite” item production both by price and by number available. In this case, mystic coin prices are going to go up, with ANet’s blessing and approval.
And therein is the issue that I see. A legendary (and whatever other shiny mystic coin recipe is out there) should be about YOUR effort. You having it should be because you put your effort into getting it. A person should have their items because of their effort not because someone else didnt make one.
Again, I am not proposing that any alternate acquisition method should be easy or cheap. Handing them out at a slow time interval is does not equate to “elite”. could you imagine the outrage if fulgarite was tradeable, but a daily timegate?
(edited by That Guy.5704)
Scarcity is important
John Smith
I want to be up front: scarcity is important. For most materials in the game, we’ve reached a nice equilibriumAnd this might tell you whether or not they’ll ever increase supply. Mystic coins are positioned to be a way to limit production of “elite” items such as Legendaries or the other high priced and rare weapons through the simple fact of only so many per month are generated and available.
imo, they literally don’t want every Tom, Richard or Harry running around with easily gotten and cheap “elite” items. They want the dividing line, the things that keep these items scarce. If so, then they want mystic coins to go up higher in price to act as the limiting factor in “elite” item production both by price and by number available. In this case, mystic coin prices are going to go up, with ANet’s blessing and approval.
And therein is the issue that I see. A legendary (and whatever other shiny mystic coin recipe is out there) should be about YOUR effort. You having it should be because you put your effort into getting it. A person should have their mystic coin item because of their effort not because someone else didnt make one.
Again, I am not proposing that any alternate acquisition method should be easy or cheap. Handing them out at a slow time interval is does not equate to “elite”. could you imagine the outrage if fulgarite was tradeable, but a daily timegate?
You’re thinking of it from the player viewpoint, of course. They’re looking at it from a game design standpoint. It goes towards a carrot. A reward for players to work towards and a way to keep people logging on each day. Most game carrots are easily obtained, some are moderately hard, and then a few are long term. If they’ve set up the “elite” weapons to be the long term carrots then it’s not ANet’s game design to make them easier/faster to get them. Everyone who wants the items can still get them. At worse they’ll be gated by time, which may be the reason for the coins set supply. You’ll need to log in every day to get them.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)
Seriously people start reading threads before you write some kitten stuff in them. Around 50% of posts here are from people that have no idea at all and are just writing because they are bored.
Again for all the non reading kids: Noone cares about your stupid legendary or guild upgrade! For these two mystic coin price is fine and could be doubled and still noone should care!
The problem is that mystic coins are needed for ~250 mf recipes (lvl15 up to lvl500 recipes), there are ~100 mf only weapon skins that can only be created with mystic coins (like eternal sands), there are some couple hundret other items and upgrades that need mystic coins!!!Only because most people are to lazy to look up from where or how their weapons are created, doesn’t mean that we all aren’t massively hurt by increasing mystic coin prices.
Mystic coins have been an undervalued item since gw2 release.
Not because you didn’t need them! They have been undervalued because 99% of the player base is —-———. I know that because I made thousands of gold two years ago by crafting mystic coin items (for less than 1g) and sellling these for 30g. Now this doesn’t work since HoT (which is totally fine), but now these crap items are really costing ~40g each and their price is raising fast (because of mystic coins).
So again the problem is that now ~300+ beginner items and base food cost ~40-50g and these are still raising fast. So 1g each mystic coin will be fine for guild halls and legy’s, but IT’S NOT FINE for hundrets of low lvl beginner items!
The OP was specifically addressing the issue of Mystic Coins with regards to Legendaries, and that’s why the majority of comments have been in that direction.
If you want to expand the discussion, that’s awesome. But there’s no need to be a troll or an kitten when you do.
~EW
Scarcity is important
John Smith
I want to be up front: scarcity is important. For most materials in the game, we’ve reached a nice equilibriumAnd this might tell you whether or not they’ll ever increase supply. Mystic coins are positioned to be a way to limit production of “elite” items such as Legendaries or the other high priced and rare weapons through the simple fact of only so many per month are generated and available.
imo, they literally don’t want every Tom, Richard or Harry running around with easily gotten and cheap “elite” items. They want the dividing line, the things that keep these items scarce. If so, then they want mystic coins to go up higher in price to act as the limiting factor in “elite” item production both by price and by number available. In this case, mystic coin prices are going to go up, with ANet’s blessing and approval.
And therein is the issue that I see. A legendary (and whatever other shiny mystic coin recipe is out there) should be about YOUR effort. You having it should be because you put your effort into getting it. A person should have their mystic coin item because of their effort not because someone else didnt make one.
Again, I am not proposing that any alternate acquisition method should be easy or cheap. Handing them out at a slow time interval is does not equate to “elite”. could you imagine the outrage if fulgarite was tradeable, but a daily timegate?
You’re thinking of it from the player viewpoint, of course. They’re looking at it from a game design standpoint. It’s a carrot. A reward for players to work towards and a way to keep people logging on each day. Most game carrots are easily obtained, some are moderately hard, and then a few are long term. If they’ve set up the “elite” weapons to be the long term carrots then it’s not ANet’s game design to make them easier/faster to get them. Everyone who wants the items can still get them. At worse they’ll be gated by time, which may be the reason for the coins set supply. You’ll need to log in every day to get them.
So, its good game design to have a situation where one person’s progress is artificially stretched out over a very extended period of time regardless of progress made in other areas of that item OR where their progress comes from another person selling their hard limited progress. I see.
So, its good game design to have a situation where one person’s progress is artificially stretched out over a very extended period of time regardless of progress made in other areas of that item OR where their progress comes from another person selling their hard limited progress. I see.
Correct. In a MMO, that is good game design. Not to blow your mind all at once, but there’s also a concept called a “skinner box” that is also employed by MMOs.
Welcome to the Matrix.
~EW
When discussing the new map reward system, John Smith commented how he prefers to give players control of supply and how the new map reward system accomplishes this.
It would be consistent with his approach to put mystic coins in the rotation for the map reward system. Failing that, a new option for the chest of loyalty would also accomplish the same thing, but to a lesser degree.
Scarcity is important
John Smith
I want to be up front: scarcity is important. For most materials in the game, we’ve reached a nice equilibriumAnd this might tell you whether or not they’ll ever increase supply. Mystic coins are positioned to be a way to limit production of “elite” items such as Legendaries or the other high priced and rare weapons through the simple fact of only so many per month are generated and available.
imo, they literally don’t want every Tom, Richard or Harry running around with easily gotten and cheap “elite” items. They want the dividing line, the things that keep these items scarce. If so, then they want mystic coins to go up higher in price to act as the limiting factor in “elite” item production both by price and by number available. In this case, mystic coin prices are going to go up, with ANet’s blessing and approval.
And therein is the issue that I see. A legendary (and whatever other shiny mystic coin recipe is out there) should be about YOUR effort. You having it should be because you put your effort into getting it. A person should have their mystic coin item because of their effort not because someone else didnt make one.
Again, I am not proposing that any alternate acquisition method should be easy or cheap. Handing them out at a slow time interval is does not equate to “elite”. could you imagine the outrage if fulgarite was tradeable, but a daily timegate?
You’re thinking of it from the player viewpoint, of course. They’re looking at it from a game design standpoint. It’s a carrot. A reward for players to work towards and a way to keep people logging on each day. Most game carrots are easily obtained, some are moderately hard, and then a few are long term. If they’ve set up the “elite” weapons to be the long term carrots then it’s not ANet’s game design to make them easier/faster to get them. Everyone who wants the items can still get them. At worse they’ll be gated by time, which may be the reason for the coins set supply. You’ll need to log in every day to get them.
So, its good game design to have a situation where one person’s progress is artificially stretched out over a very extended period of time regardless of progress made in other areas of that item OR where their progress comes from another person selling their hard limited progress. I see.
I’m not a game designer so I couldn’t tell you if its good or not. I can only interpret for myself what I’m seeing so I’ll understand what’s happening.
What I’m seeing is an item that has a set supply dependent upon logging in everyday that’s used in the crafting of large numbers of items. So, what is the purpose of this? Why is it designed this way? My interpretation is that’s it’s both an item that sets an outside limit on production and an item that encourages daily logins. If ANet has done this then my interpretation is that they value daily logins and they value scarcity and gating some items, by time or price. If anyone offers an alternate suggestion then it needs to keep this possibility in mind and, if true, the suggestion has to give the company something it values more than keeping players logged in for longer periods each day to get gold and logging in daily.
So, what does your alternate suggestions do for ANet that would make them want to change their way mystic coins are acquired?
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
So, what does your alternate suggestions do for ANet that would make them want to change their way mystic coins are acquired?
mystic coins solely from login rewards may get people to log in; however, If people are only logging in for mystic coins/login bonuses then there is a problem elsewhere. If people arent logging in just for the daily rewards and those are just a bonus, then locking them solely behind logins is pointless. I already made a specific suggestion.
So, what does your alternate suggestions do for ANet that would make them want to change their way mystic coins are acquired?
mystic coins solely from login rewards may get people to log in; however, If people are only logging in for mystic coins/login bonuses then there is a problem elsewhere. If people arent logging in just for the daily rewards and those are just a bonus, then locking them solely behind logins is pointless. I already made a specific suggestion.
I said it encouraged daily logins, not that people are logging in daily for mystic coins only. All the daily login bonuses act as an encouragement to logon, which is of value to ANet as it both helps the metrics to show to stockholders and because once people log on they are likely to play for a while.
if your suggestion fits their game design better than what they’ve got so far then I expect they’ll give it due consideration.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
NOt everything expensive, is broken. I don’t think Mystic Coins are something they want more supply of. There was reasons the implemented sinks for them (hefty ones at that), becuase people have hundreds maybe thousands of them from a time when Mystic Coins were near useless and reflected as such on the TP. ANet want things to have value. T6 Mats have dropped drastically in price. You have to keep the economy somewhat balanced in that. So something things are going to be more scarce than others.
My opinion is that ANet decided that Mystic Coins were going to be one of those things that they wanted the bring the value up on. It’s worked. I, personally, have over 2000 mystic coins in my bank from doing dailies/monthlies in the old system and logging in every day in this one. Not everything has to be extremely cheap. Mats all over the place are dropping in price only a few of them are going up. Look at the big picture and not zero in on one item.
No one has said (well maybe someone did, but then that would mean they didnt get the point of the original post either) that its broken because the price is too high. the entire point is that its broken because they have a hard capped supply that does not come close to the demand which causes, among other things, the price increase. It is entirely possible for them to implement a way to create supply through in game effort to increase accessibility while still maintaining the current or even a higher price then they are now.
You clearly do not get economics.
If you increase supply but do not change demand, prices does not go up, it goes down.
And no, it is not broken just because there is a fixed supply of mystic coins. ANet knew full well what the supply was and what the rate of mystic coin creation was when they added the things that take mystic coins with HoT. It’s not like they have to factor in the chance of too many people getting too lucky with their drops or anything. The mystic coin economy is something that ANet can control pretty well.
No, I do understand economics. I didnt say they should specifically increase supply, I said they should increase accessibility. Simply increasing supply by adding them to map rewards, increasing daily login rewards, or some other means of more or less handing them out is a simple increase in supply that would cause a price drop. Thats not what I am talking about.
What I proposed they do was to increase accessibility by using other things that already hold value and have alternative uses in a means of creating mystic at a cost at or above the current TP value. Would this at least initially decrease the price of coins? probably. but over time as those constituent materials/currencies and mystic coins reach a new equilibrium, if the amounts are properly balanced it would retain either current or even higher prices on the TP (higher because coins are still increasing anyway and will go up further each time new recipes are released) at the new equilibrium but still allow new supply to be created in response to further increasing prices.
The most basic and mindless example (and not what I would propose at all) would be a vender that sells mystic coins at 50s each. Accessibility increased as supply can be created in response to prices over 50s, do prices decrease from their current level (mid 30s) because a new mode of acquisition no.
using a recipe would result in a “floating cap” on the price that fluctuates with the value of those other materials/currencies.
Yes, supply and demand still function. But when you have an absolutely fixed supply the ONLY things that can change is the demand or the price. When new uses are released the demand increases as people want new items. But supply cannot increase, so the price increases to a new equilibrium point and/or demand decreases. But how can demand possibly decrease? people stop using them. They cut out an entire category of in game goals, those using mystic coins because they have no recourse. (I am talking long run here as new players begin crafting things and old players finish, not initial crafting spikes and prices well over the current ones)
That was the entire point of precursor crafting, to maintain the value of precursors on the market but increase accessibility through crafting them (yes they have ended up coming down a bit from their highest sustained points in august/september of 2014, but they have been roughly the same for about a year with a drop when HoT released but prices have been recovering some since then.)
In a real economy, people can innovate responses to increases in prices, find alternatives, alternative sources of the same thing etc etc. Not here. Here mystic coins is a resource for which individuals must compete with other individuals if they want to make anything requiring them is a reasonable amount of time. Thats something that is contrary to the design goals of GW2.
If you do not change supply, the only thing that affects prices is demand. Prices stay the same. People are still just as likely to hoard coins as they do now. For when the next set of legendaries get released and demand increases. Which will increase prices, since supply will also go down. When supply goes down and demand goes up, prices will definitely rise.
What you are asking for is ANet to put in place something to increase the supply of Mystic Coins.
So let’s assume ANet knew how many coins you can get on average each month (20 + the number of times of Mystic Forger is the Daily).
Then you have some questions to ask on why ANet would increase demand for something that they know has two means of acquisition (Daily Log in and Daily Mystic Forger) that are not RNG bound and are fully in their control.
Possible reasons:
1. Mystic Coins were too common for what they had wanted the currency to be. We’ve seen ANet put in recipes to correct this. Silk before Ascended was vendor trash. Then Ascended came along and prices soared. Apparently a bit too high as ANet then put in more means of acquisition and drove the price down some, but not as far down as it was before Ascended.
2. They want things that use Mystic Coins to be long term goals. Which either means a gate of time or money. This typically means making sure demand exceeds supply.
Either way, I do think that making temporary items require a lot more coins than is reasonable to earn in the time the temporary item is around is unfair to new players who are actively playing at that time. Not saying they must keep it to where everyone who logs in every day during that time will get enough coins, but if it’s around for only 1 month, it doesn’t need 200 Mystic Coins to make it. But also not so low that everyone and their mother can get one. Mystic Coin using temporary items should be items that show that a player put forth some effort into getting it by the deadline. Either by spending gold or playing for many of the days of the event.
Now, does ANet have the best rate of Mystic Coin generation it could have for the health of the game and game’s economy? I don’t know. But given the player base’s tendency to farm things, they do have to be careful on anything that could be achieved through farming so that they don’t increase supply so much that the rarity of the item goes down too much for where they want it.
All I’m saying is that ANet’s very likely aware of the current supply and demand of the coins and whether that’s a healthy level for the state of the game’s economy. And ANet only balances around the large scale economy, not on a player to player basis. So ANet very likely intentionally created the situation we’re in with Mystic Coins for a reason and will make corrections as they deem healthy for the game’s economy (and remember this is large scale, not player scale).
I said it encouraged daily logins, not that people are logging in daily for mystic coins only. All the daily login bonuses act as an encouragement to logon, which is of value to ANet as it both helps the metrics to show to stockholders and because once people log on they are likely to play for a while.
if your suggestion fits their game design better than what they’ve got so far then I expect they’ll give it due consideration.
I was showing the 2 extremes and how, on both sides of the spectrum, requiring an item with this acquisition method isnt a good thing at this scale. Nevermore needs 75 days of timegates I believe it is for spiritwood. While its alot, its not too terrible. if, on the other hand, a new legendary required 60 mystic coins (3 months of logins) we wouldnt be having this discussion because its really not as bad. but that isnt the case. it requires minimum of 250.
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why didnt precursor prices drop to 0 when crafting was released? Would they have if you could complete the collection infinite times? No. Because of the value of components. It is entirely possible to ALLOW the creation of supply while still maintaining a value (read money) at or above the current TP price.
I said it encouraged daily logins, not that people are logging in daily for mystic coins only. All the daily login bonuses act as an encouragement to logon, which is of value to ANet as it both helps the metrics to show to stockholders and because once people log on they are likely to play for a while.
if your suggestion fits their game design better than what they’ve got so far then I expect they’ll give it due consideration.
I was showing the 2 extremes and how, on both sides of the spectrum, requiring an item with this acquisition method isnt a good thing at this scale. Nevermore needs 75 days of timegates I believe it is for spiritwood. While its alot, its not too terrible. if, on the other hand, a new legendary required 60 mystic coins (3 months of logins) we wouldnt be having this discussion because its really not as bad. but that isnt the case. it requires minimum of 250.
That’s the thing. Legendary weapons are THE epitome of the long term goal. 1 year roughly (it really takes 12.5 months, but you can expect Mystic Forger to show up at least 10 times during the course of a year) is not too long for a long term goal. Players who do not wish to wait that long can either put in buy orders for coins or buy coins at current sell order prices.
If you’re wanting to convince players that the rate of generation of supply is not good, don’t choose the long term goal of the game for most players who do not choose to use their credit card to buy their legendary.
And which legendary requires 250 Mystic Coins? Last I thought, the number needed was random since the only thing that requires Mystic Coins for legendaries is the Mystic Clovers.
Meteorlogicus doesn’t. It needs anywhere from 77 if you get really lucky with the 1 Mystic Clover recipe to 250+ if you’re really unlucky.
I did the 10 Mystic Clovers recipe to get to 70 (and got the remaining 7 from the Legendary chest). I recall getting Clovers about 50% of the time. So about 14-16 tries, or 140-160 Mystic Coins. Or 7-8 months of waiting, if you had no Mystic Coins when you decided you wanted a Legendary.
Edit: The wiki shows that I was on the lucky side and it’s about a 33% rate, so every 3 tries you get a success. So it’s either 231 Mystic Coins on average if you do the 1 Mystic Clover recipe or 240 Mystic Coins on average if you do the 10 Mystic Clovers recipe. Also, there is an alternate means of acquisition for Mystic Clovers. If you choose the Legendary chest at the end of each 28 days, you get 7 Mystic Clovers. The non-RNG means for getting the Mystic Clovers for the legendary takes 11 months to get. It’s not bad to make the RNG method take about the same time.
(edited by Seera.5916)
You need about 481 mystic coins for the new legendary weapons.
So do any of the PVP Tracks drop mystic coins ?
[MYTH] The Mythical Dragons -PvX http://mythdragons.enjin.com
So do any of the PVP Tracks drop mystic coins ?
Not that I’m aware of. They either provide obby shards or something like 3 clovers.
You need about 481 mystic coins for the new legendary weapons.
That only shows a required 250 Mystic Coins (answers my question about which legendary, I haven’t looked into the new ones since I’m still working on an old legendary). The remaining ones can be bypassed with the monthly log in reward.
9.25-12.5 months depending on how many times you do the Mystic Forger daily is not that long to wait for enough Mystic Coins. And again, assuming a player has none when they decide to start making the legendary.
You need about 481 mystic coins for the new legendary weapons.
That only shows a required 250 Mystic Coins (answers my question about which legendary, I haven’t looked into the new ones since I’m still working on an old legendary). The remaining ones can be bypassed with the monthly log in reward.
9.25-12.5 months depending on how many times you do the Mystic Forger daily is not that long to wait for enough Mystic Coins. And again, assuming a player has none when they decide to start making the legendary.
Look further at the 77 mystic clovers that are also needed.
You need about 481 mystic coins for the new legendary weapons.
That only shows a required 250 Mystic Coins (answers my question about which legendary, I haven’t looked into the new ones since I’m still working on an old legendary). The remaining ones can be bypassed with the monthly log in reward.
9.25-12.5 months depending on how many times you do the Mystic Forger daily is not that long to wait for enough Mystic Coins. And again, assuming a player has none when they decide to start making the legendary.
Look further at the 77 mystic clovers that are also needed.
Yea, and you can also get 7 Mystic Clovers from the Legendary Chest you get on Log in Day #28. So 11 of those chests later, and you’ve got your 77 Mystic Clovers without touching your supply of Mystic Coins.
You need about 481 mystic coins for the new legendary weapons.
That only shows a required 250 Mystic Coins (answers my question about which legendary, I haven’t looked into the new ones since I’m still working on an old legendary). The remaining ones can be bypassed with the monthly log in reward.
9.25-12.5 months depending on how many times you do the Mystic Forger daily is not that long to wait for enough Mystic Coins. And again, assuming a player has none when they decide to start making the legendary.
Look further at the 77 mystic clovers that are also needed.
Yea, and you can also get 7 Mystic Clovers from the Legendary Chest you get on Log in Day #28. So 11 of those chests later, and you’ve got your 77 Mystic Clovers without touching your supply of Mystic Coins.
Just because you can get the end product somewhere else doesn’t negate that roughly 481 mystic coins are part of getting the new legendary weapons.
Here’s two ideas that fixes crazy market demand/manipulation:
1. Remove Shards of Glory and convert them to Mystic Coin. They serve the exact same purpose.
2. Or at least tie a break/conversion recipe like Glob of Ectoplasm and Crystalline Dust from Shards of Glory to Mystic Coin.
You need about 481 mystic coins for the new legendary weapons.
That only shows a required 250 Mystic Coins (answers my question about which legendary, I haven’t looked into the new ones since I’m still working on an old legendary). The remaining ones can be bypassed with the monthly log in reward.
9.25-12.5 months depending on how many times you do the Mystic Forger daily is not that long to wait for enough Mystic Coins. And again, assuming a player has none when they decide to start making the legendary.
Look further at the 77 mystic clovers that are also needed.
Yea, and you can also get 7 Mystic Clovers from the Legendary Chest you get on Log in Day #28. So 11 of those chests later, and you’ve got your 77 Mystic Clovers without touching your supply of Mystic Coins.
Just because you can get the end product somewhere else doesn’t negate that roughly 481 mystic coins are part of getting the new legendary weapons.
Doesn’t mean you can ignore the fact that there are other methods of acquisition of the Mystic Clover. And That Guy was saying if there were more means of Mystic Coins for the legendary that it would be fine. I pointed out that there was the Mystic Clovers from the chest and that is technically an alternate means to the same end result.
Seeing as how the new legendaries seem to be a very long term goal item (if the mat requirement for the old precursors are any indication of how long ANet wanted the new precursors to take…), I’m not sure how out of the realm of acceptable that 481+ Mystic Coin requirement is or is not.
Half tempted to buy up what’s left to prove a point and see if Anet takes action in an upcoming update or at least acknowledges the issue.
Except me and many others are sitting on stacks of coins and would profit greatly if you were to do so – by waiting for you to post and gently undercutting you.
Sooner or later your stock would run out. And the prices would not go back to what they were before.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November