Guild Wars 2

Escadin.9482:

Jski.6180:

Im Mudbone.1437:

I miss it a lot, there was SO MUCH MORE teamwork using the trinity in GW1 compared to the zerg-fest in GW2, not to mention better optimization/utilization of many areas of the game.

So having to deal with something else during the fight is not team work. Each class is fighting something different dps is fighting the mobs hp tanks are fighting hate/agro and support is fighting the teams hp they happen to be working beside each other but that is a sad excuse for real team work. Real team work is being able to switch rolls to cover for your team as needed and to be able to communication with other ppl to work together attks on a mob this dose not mean you need to be a dps tank support this just means that your team knows what your going to do and you can tell them what going on.

In the 3 class system you do not need to communicate what your doing you just play a roll and fight for a different goals then say the other classes not to say you cant have team work in this setting but the “work” of real team work is reduced a great deal and is less likely to be real team work when you running a stander system.

Now in a system where there no roll to play every one must tell ppl what they are going to do and they are ability to switch there ability to best fit what the pt needs at that time. So now you can have real team work of communication.

The best example would be something that some what looked downed on but its needs a lot of team work to pull off the stacking on a boss and pushing it into a wall. What this needs is to have ppl move in the right spot well time there def skills to hit there team to buff there attk of there time during the right moment. All though it goes fast if done right it can go very wrong very fast if any one is simply out of places.

You just do not get this in a 3 class system because if one person messes up they are cover because of how over specialized ppl build classes in this system. If a healing over heals they make up for it by adding more mana if a dps dose too much dmg they make up for being more tankly if a tank fails to hold hate they make up for it by building more dps. THIS is not team work this is solo planing and wining by gear and classes.

Most games are moving away from a 3 class system in favor for a soft 3 class system much like you seen in GW2. You can still play a tankly hero a all in glass dps hero and a more support hero in GW2. In some format you about have a 3 class system spvp and the player made gvg / wvw over all.

Both are still a downgrade from 8+ class system in my opinion. If you want to know how real teamwork is supposed to look and play like you should check Warhammer online or Ragnarok. Their teamwork mechanics even carry through massive zergs in both PvE and PvP.

The point is self-reliant classes do not encourage teamwork at all. Nobody is ever shifting roles in GW2, we just blow out our own heals / boons / dps in order to keep ourselves running. The only reason dungeons require 5 people is because all those heals / boons / dps have to add up to a certain number because Monsters are overcharged with stats to compensate for poor ai.

Picking up people is just a low effort way to “unpunish” mistakes made by a large portion of Anets target audience. It has nothing to do with gameplay or teamplay, since it’s not even a matter of gamedesign, but of paymentmodels.

To add to your comment about (self reliant classes) means nothing more than a SINGLE PLAYER MECHANIC used in a mmorpg setting where not EVERYTHING is solable REQUIREING teamwork/play where a co-ordinated effort is required that is not in this game. Don’t get me wrong I kinda like GW2 but would rather love it like I do GW1 that I still play at times.

Lalangamena.3694:

I miss roles,
melee dps, range DPS, buffer, debuffer, crowd control, healer, tank.
if you don’t like the term tank, it can be replaced by “control” or “bunker” whatever…

each role is lacking but together they supplement each other.

we were promised ROLES not role…
i am still waiting.

You don’t have a ROLE. You can do whatever you want to do.
This game will never have dedicated roles like the ones you want. It won’t because that’s not what they are aiming for.

Also the " we were promised " doesn’t hold up. A lot of things were promised or promoted and never came to be. A lot of things weren’t promised and we have them.

saalle.4623:

I hate trinity,thanks Anet for not putting this unfair feature in game that always make certain classes welcome in groups wile others (usually assassins) are not welcomed and cant find pt entire day for a dungeon

Coughs Rangers Coughs Necromancers Coughs Engineers Coughs WARS ONLY ZERK GEARCHECK

I’ve asked around a lot about this, and the replies in this thread reflect my findings well.
What people hate about the trinity isn’t the tanking or healing role, it’s everything that comes with it. The queues for DPS players, the “I don’t want to be forced to play something I don’t want to play” idea, the feeling of not mattering, the flatlining aggro mechanics of other games.

And wow, are there many people who think those are the same thing.

Truth is, having a tanking and healing role available does not create the trinity. Not having them available does not solve any of the above listed problems.
We’ve reached a point where the game’s initial focus points are fighting amongst themselves.
Maybe it’s time to break free of the spectre of the trinity.

No, I don´t miss this at all. I have three MMORPG installed, 2 of them are “trinity”. No, I do not need every game to be the same. Neither do you.

Latinkuro.9420:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Can’t say I do, sorry.

Majority feels like this ^^

if you miss the trinity so much there are a billion and one unholy trinity based games on the market, go there and get your itch scratched.

Leave this diamond in the rough to the rest of us that totally dislike the stupid, moronic, braindead, 2 cents short of a dollar unholy trinity.

Latinkuro.9420:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Can’t say I do, sorry.

Majority feels like this ^^

Majority feels like this ^^

Majority

Majority

feels

HUH? WHAT? What kind of people do you hang out with in GW2?

Harper.4173:

Lalangamena.3694:

I miss roles,
melee dps, range DPS, buffer, debuffer, crowd control, healer, tank.
if you don’t like the term tank, it can be replaced by “control” or “bunker” whatever…

each role is lacking but together they supplement each other.

we were promised ROLES not role…
i am still waiting.

You don’t have a ROLE. You can do whatever you want to do.
This game will never have dedicated roles like the ones you want. It won’t because that’s not what they are aiming for.

Also the " we were promised " doesn’t hold up. A lot of things were promised or promoted and never came to be. A lot of things weren’t promised and we have them.

We were actually supposed to have Control, Support and damage roles. It’s just that defiant makes control useless, all classes have some CC, support is also largely useless and self-designated and damage is great because every class can do that and the other three for themselves well enough that other players aren’t really needed.

That’s why people can solo things like Lupi.

saalle.4623:

I hate trinity,thanks Anet for not putting this unfair feature in game that always make certain classes welcome in groups wile others (usually assassins) are not welcomed and cant find pt entire day for a dungeon

Meanwhile, “LF 5 Guardians”,“LF ZERKS ONLY 10K achievement points”.

This is the stupidest argument against the Trinity I’ve ever heard. People will always find qualifications required for other people to join them. ALWAYS. Don’t kid yourself that Trinity or not makes a contributive difference to this.

Yes I miss it.

It it the reason why I don’t play this game any more and only come to the forums to see what the “scoop” is every month or so.

It is also the reason why I have been playing Rift lately and will be playing WOW again when the new expansion comes out. Unfortunately, that means I’m going to have to buy MOP as well:(

I don’t miss standing in town spamming “GLF Healer!”

I DO miss classes that had defined roles. Combat in this game is so vapid and simple a bot could do it and when most of our fighting is just stack and autoattack it’s not really any different.

Exclamatory.8351:

Yes I miss it.

It it the reason why I don’t play this game any more and only come to the forums to see what the “scoop” is every month or so.

It is also the reason why I have been playing Rift lately and will be playing WOW again when the new expansion comes out. Unfortunately, that means I’m going to have to buy MOP as well:(

This is a bit off topic but whenever they release a new expansion, the previous expansion becomes merged to the main game.

So if you buy WoW when WoD comes out, it should come with MOP.

If I wanted a trinity game I would have joined my sister in FFXIV.

But I didn’t.

No, not at all.. I play other games if I need a fix. But I find myself becoming bored with the button mashing. GW2 has spoiled me.

And I miss dodging in other games.

Do I miss dedicated trinity? Not necessarily. I enjoy it, but the GW2 soft trinity is fun too. Or it would be, if you actually needed it.
What I do miss is party coordination.
Mobs are either too easy they die if you just look at them, or so strong you sit there for minutes on end spamming attacks. They have a very weak AI so there’s not much thinking needed. Anet takes a lot of lazy shortcuts in enemy design, like making them dps sponges, defiant, OHKO attacks (or lately, making them immune to damage without any way to counter it). I think if Anet improved enemy AI, the soft trinity would come into play.

About the “waiting hours for a monk” comment (I assume in GW1), you didn’t have to wait hours for a monk or warrior. Instead of monk you could have invited a elementalist, ritualist, and necromancer healer/protector. Instead of warrior you could have used MM, spirit spammer, assassin, dervish, ele tank, and so on. That’s solely the players’ fault for being close minded.

~ Quoting Funset: “ARENANET ADVERTISEMENT HIS GAME FOR YEARS SAYING GW2 WOULD NOT HAVE A TRINITY?”
That’s not true. They said it wouldn’t have a dedicated trinity. They did say there would be a soft trinity. But they have deleted their blog to hide their lies… so you’ll have to take my word for it

lorazcyk.8927:

Do I miss dedicated trinity? Not necessarily. I enjoy it, but the GW2 soft trinity is fun too. Or it would be, if you actually needed it.
What I do miss is party coordination.
Mobs are either too easy they die if you just look at them, or so strong you sit there for minutes on end spamming attacks. They have a very weak AI so there’s not much thinking needed. Anet takes a lot of lazy shortcuts in enemy design, like making them dps sponges, defiant, OHKO attacks (or lately, making them immune to damage without any way to counter it). I think if Anet improved enemy AI, the soft trinity would come into play.

About the “waiting hours for a monk” comment (I assume in GW1), you didn’t have to wait hours for a monk or warrior. Instead of monk you could have invited a elementalist, ritualist, and necromancer healer/protector. Instead of warrior you could have used MM, spirit spammer, assassin, dervish, ele tank, and so on. That’s solely the players’ fault for being close minded.

~ Quoting Funset: “ARENANET ADVERTISEMENT HIS GAME FOR YEARS SAYING GW2 WOULD NOT HAVE A TRINITY?”
That’s not true. They said it wouldn’t have a dedicated trinity. They did say there would be a soft trinity. But they have deleted their blog to hide their lies… so you’ll have to take my word for it

What is this “soft trinity” you speak of?

I don’t think I necessarily miss the trinity, but instead I miss a more relaxed gamer environment. The “go go go” mentality started creeping up in WoW PUGs years ago and it has only gotten worse across the entire gamer community. I’m not interested in speed runs or meta builds. It’s like I’m back in the Diablo 2 days.

Guess I’m just getting old. Maybe if I was still in my 20s I’d be trying to go as fast as I could too. Women reading this will probably snicker.

Im Mudbone.1437:

lorazcyk.8927:

Do I miss dedicated trinity? Not necessarily. I enjoy it, but the GW2 soft trinity is fun too. Or it would be, if you actually needed it.
What I do miss is party coordination.
Mobs are either too easy they die if you just look at them, or so strong you sit there for minutes on end spamming attacks. They have a very weak AI so there’s not much thinking needed. Anet takes a lot of lazy shortcuts in enemy design, like making them dps sponges, defiant, OHKO attacks (or lately, making them immune to damage without any way to counter it). I think if Anet improved enemy AI, the soft trinity would come into play.

About the “waiting hours for a monk” comment (I assume in GW1), you didn’t have to wait hours for a monk or warrior. Instead of monk you could have invited a elementalist, ritualist, and necromancer healer/protector. Instead of warrior you could have used MM, spirit spammer, assassin, dervish, ele tank, and so on. That’s solely the players’ fault for being close minded.

~ Quoting Funset: “ARENANET ADVERTISEMENT HIS GAME FOR YEARS SAYING GW2 WOULD NOT HAVE A TRINITY?”
That’s not true. They said it wouldn’t have a dedicated trinity. They did say there would be a soft trinity. But they have deleted their blog to hide their lies… so you’ll have to take my word for it

What is this “soft trinity” you speak of?

Probably the CC/Support/DPS nonsense they threw at us during pre-launch hype.

CC is useless because anet has a Defiant addiction. Support as a role is a joke because even Guardians and boon spam Ele’s do insane damage for the support they bring, ousting many other classes that can’t support or dps as well. Which just leaves our old standby, stack n’ zerk DPS.

Im Mudbone.1437:

I miss it a lot, there was SO MUCH MORE teamwork using the trinity in GW1 compared to the zerg-fest in GW2, not to mention better optimization/utilization of many areas of the game.

Even with the trinity a zerg would still be a zerg.
In my opinion the problem is the way they design the content and the zerker meta that is caused by the infinite pool of hp of mobs and one-shot mechanics (something that could not be fixed nerfing zerker, action that on the contrary would harm hybrid builds more than anything else).

GW2 does have control, support and damage. The reason that some of the player-base rejects the game’s approach to them is because those roles are tied neither to professions nor to gear. Apparently, this is too much of a hurdle for people used to thinking in terms of how roles are handled in other games — where the trinity roles are tied both to character class/profession and to gear type.

They advertsied the game as no-trinity, why did you buy it if you’re looking for heal/tank/dps roles?

Combat medics shoot guns too.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

saalle.4623:

I hate trinity,thanks Anet for not putting this unfair feature in game that always make certain classes welcome in groups wile others (usually assassins) are not welcomed and cant find pt entire day for a dungeon

Meanwhile, “LF 5 Guardians”,“LF ZERKS ONLY 10K achievement points”.

This is the stupidest argument against the Trinity I’ve ever heard. People will always find qualifications required for other people to join them. ALWAYS. Don’t kid yourself that Trinity or not makes a contributive difference to this.

Class stacking will also happen in other games that do have the trinity too. There was a boss in WoW Pandaria that had a weird mechanic for melee attackers that made rogues do quad damage while hunters only do their baseline. So people would bring 10 rogues.

And remember the state of Shamans in the Burning Crusade? Shamans had hard times getting an invite as dps in dungeons because they were the one class without a crowd control ability. Everyone wanted mages and warlocks for sheep and banish. They solved the CC issue by making all the tank classes have no brainer aoe attacks for tanking. So AoE tanking became the new way to tank everywhere. So now AoE attack dps classes were the new hotness, and single target builds had to be changed, or those classes had to be given multi target attacks (Bladestorm Warriors, Flurry of Knives Rogues). And since Paladins became the absolute best at AoE, for a while people only wanted Paladins as their tanks. It went on and on…

Things will change over time if the Devs are responsive.

I don’t miss the holy trinity, I like the combat as it is. If only you couldn’t stack and simply dps the boss down but really have to move that would be awesome. However I miss being a healer, I hope that some day the devs figure out the way for the support builds to be necessary.

Before GW2 was released, I thought it was a great idea to remove holy trinity, but now it is even worse than trinity. Mainly mindless zergs that I just can’t stand.
I used to have some fun in older mmos in PvE even just soloing some stuff. I don’t feel it in GW2. It felt more enjoyable when there was a time when you needed different roles.
Yes now, it is easier to find group, but actually I don’t event want to go to any dungeon because of that of how boring it is. I can’t stand PvE in GW2 – combat is boring and repetitive (even more than in traditional mmos).

I miss it, gw1 monk ftw

why would i spend hours of camping at portals or w/e for some needed class in party just to do some crappy PvE content? why should i be good just at 1 thing in the game heal or support or dps or tank? why would i get less by playing healer/tank/support then the one playing dps? etc…

so no I don’t miss it at all.

mrauls.6519:

kitten the trinity

Ditto.

How can you miss it? All games are a click away, if this game does not have it another does. If that other game does not have something else then there is 100% chance that some other game does. Nothing at all to miss really.

Why would anyone ever miss being pigeon-holed into a one-dimensional role, spending ages looking for a tank or healer or playing either of those two simply out of necessity?

Trinity as a gameplay mechanic should have died in the 90’s along with most archaic MMO design.

IndigoSundown.5419:

GW2 does have control, support and damage. The reason that some of the player-base rejects the game’s approach to them is because those roles are tied neither to professions nor to gear. Apparently, this is too much of a hurdle for people used to thinking in terms of how roles are handled in other games — where the trinity roles are tied both to character class/profession and to gear type.

Exactly what it comes down to. I’ve played every class and they all have weaknesses where the others excel. If that isn’t support at a basic level, I don’t know what is.

lol no, i really love having to to roll zerker builds only, and reguarly kick necro’s and engineers from groups because DEEPS.

but in truth, i miss guild wars 1 “trinity” in the sense you didn’t have to wait around forever for healers because you had heroes.

also this game is ez and you can faceroll any dungeon so need for trinity.

tfwzyko.3516:

also this game is ez and you can faceroll any dungeon so need for trinity.

I have no idea why people continue to perpetuate this myth. They are either A. fortunate enough to run in an idealistic group setting 24/7 or B. lying to compensate.

I lean towards the latter.

medohgeuh.4650:

Why would anyone ever miss being pigeon-holed into a one-dimensional role, spending ages looking for a tank or healer or playing either of those two simply out of necessity?

Trinity as a gameplay mechanic should have died in the 90’s along with most archaic MMO design.

IndigoSundown.5419:

GW2 does have control, support and damage. The reason that some of the player-base rejects the game’s approach to them is because those roles are tied neither to professions nor to gear. Apparently, this is too much of a hurdle for people used to thinking in terms of how roles are handled in other games — where the trinity roles are tied both to character class/profession and to gear type.

Exactly what it comes down to. I’ve played every class and they all have weaknesses where the others excel. If that isn’t support at a basic level, I don’t know what is.

I’m sorry, what weaknesses do Guardians and Warriors have in PvE that are filled in by classes other than boon spam Ele? In what way is CC a class role at all when Defiant exists? What class is specifically a support class first and deeps class second if at all?

Hell, what strength do condition classes have over power classes when enemies have a condition cap?

This combat system is pretty weak and does not require a lot of personal skill, especially in WvW and PvE. In TPvP (Hotjoin is a farmfest) there’s some personal skill required.

ArenaNet need to balance it a little, just a little to make the other builds more viable and therefore introduce more vairety. On the other hand, all the talk about huge issues with dps is just a concept created by the players. Everyone wants the most viable build, everyone creates zergers and then 2 days later complain about how thy can’t support. If you don’t build support, you won’t be able to and for the reference you can’t build full support becasue that way you go back to the whole trinity where people slowly starts to using the old formula, tank healer and a dps, destorying the whole idea of an action-oriented combat.

There is no full support in GW2, there is only sub classes that works in alot of situations if you sacrafice some of your damage. Theses just need some tweaks to be more viable and therefore more rewarding.

Regarding the grind and gear progression suggested by some people. I guess you have never played other MMOs, there is a difference between must and you actually have the mentality to grind. There is nothing forcing you to grind to get an achievment or ascended, you can play the game and explore it as a whole without the need of these two. It is an option for more dedicated players and if you don’t feel like doing it, you don’t have to, it is about having the mentality to enjoy the game and actually understanding that you don’t need to play it for 50 years, because the reason why you played other MMOs that way is becasue the developers wanted you to grind for gear, that you couldn’t play the game without and therefore ended up playing more and more. The concep of a game with longevity based on pure quality content is an impossible option with current technology, only sandbox MMOs can be that way and GW2 isn’t created to be.

nGumball.1283:

ArenaNet need to balance it a little, just a little to make the other builds more viable and therefore introduce more vairety. On the other hand, all the talk about huge issues with dps is just a concept created by the players. Everyone wants the most viable build, everyone creates zergers and then 2 days later complain about how thy can’t support. If you don’t build support, you won’t be able to and for the reference you can’t build full support becasue that way you go back to the whole trinity where people slowly starts to using the old formula, tank healer and a dps, destorying the whole idea of an action-oriented combat.

There is no full support in GW2, there is only sub classes that works in alot of situations if you sacrafice some of your damage. Theses just need some tweaks to be more viable and therefore more rewarding.

Regarding the grind and gear progression suggested by some people. I guess you have never played other MMOs, there is a difference between must and you actually have the mentality to grind. There is nothing forcing you to grind to get an achievment or ascended, you can play the game and explore it as a whole without the need of these two. It is an option for more dedicated players and if you don’t feel like doing it, you don’t have to, it is about having the mentality to enjoy the game and actually understanding that you don’t need to play it for 50 years, because the reason why you played other MMOs that way is becasue the developers wanted you to grind for gear, that you couldn’t play the game without and therefore ended up playing more and more. The concep of a game with longevity based on pure quality content is an impossible option with current technology, only sandbox MMOs can be that way and GW2 isn’t created to be.

In 3 words: Wrong exclamation mark
“you can’t build full support becasue that way you go back to the whole trinity where people slowly starts to using the old formula, tank healer and a dps, destorying the whole idea of an action-oriented combat.”
Case in point: Tera is more of an actioncombat MMORPG than GW2 is and it has the trinity.

“There is no full support in GW2, there is only sub classes that works in alot of situations if you sacrafice some of your damage. Theses just need some tweaks to be more viable and therefore more rewarding.”
This is only one part of the issue. The other parts are one-hit attacks, easy to exploit and overall stupid ai, dodge, supremacy of self-heals and higher value of support builds in pvp (so any buff will overpower them there). Some small balance changes here and there won’t solve it.

“The concep of a game with longevity based on pure quality content is an impossible option with current technology, only sandbox MMOs can be that way and GW2 isn’t created to be.”
There is more than just sandbox.

However, you are right about " it is about having the mentality to enjoy the game and actually understanding that you don’t need to play it for 50 years". I just wonder whether that indicates a good MMORPG or an antagonism.

I dont miss it at all. One big reason I play GW2 is that there is no Trinity! I can take on any role regardless of what class I play! That is just great!

Stephen.5069:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

saalle.4623:

I hate trinity,thanks Anet for not putting this unfair feature in game that always make certain classes welcome in groups wile others (usually assassins) are not welcomed and cant find pt entire day for a dungeon

Meanwhile, “LF 5 Guardians”,“LF ZERKS ONLY 10K achievement points”.

This is the stupidest argument against the Trinity I’ve ever heard. People will always find qualifications required for other people to join them. ALWAYS. Don’t kid yourself that Trinity or not makes a contributive difference to this.

Class stacking will also happen in other games that do have the trinity too. There was a boss in WoW Pandaria that had a weird mechanic for melee attackers that made rogues do quad damage while hunters only do their baseline. So people would bring 10 rogues.

And remember the state of Shamans in the Burning Crusade? Shamans had hard times getting an invite as dps in dungeons because they were the one class without a crowd control ability. Everyone wanted mages and warlocks for sheep and banish. They solved the CC issue by making all the tank classes have no brainer aoe attacks for tanking. So AoE tanking became the new way to tank everywhere. So now AoE attack dps classes were the new hotness, and single target builds had to be changed, or those classes had to be given multi target attacks (Bladestorm Warriors, Flurry of Knives Rogues). And since Paladins became the absolute best at AoE, for a while people only wanted Paladins as their tanks. It went on and on…

Things will change over time if the Devs are responsive.

The problem is this is an issue of multiple game design choices.

It all comes down to things like;

StatSynergetics. (i.e. The power of healing vs the power of damage, effect multipliers – Crit-Healing, Crit damage, etc.)

Inter reliance (How players rely on one and other, and how different roles, class designs and tasks function)

Function of roles and skills (Can’t use stuns on bosses much, because lol-defiance, healing is useless due to most damage being able to nullify your healing or health to the point where dodging is much more useful and healing is just icing on the cake.)

Contradictory skillsets (All classes are equal but some classes are more equal than others – All classes should be able to support, yet in a game where everyone can do everything, supporting by some classes are god-tier, and by other classes, useless).

Interactive skills (i.e. Skills that don’t interact with eachother. To give an example, Warlocks in WoW have an ability that increases the damage applications of already applied DoTs. GW2 hasn’t got very many of those overall, save for directly functional class mechanics like Mesmer clones).

Condition issues (Unless you just joined last week you should know what this is)

And finally, obseletion of stat combos within single game modes. What I mean by this is like how for example, Zerks doesn’t work on World Bosses. Therefore you need two sets of armor for the same role in PVE, which is in some sense fair, but also silly and feels time-consuming especially for certain stat-sets that are a bit more rare when your playstyle and actions are fundamentally the same otherwise.

I think those are the ones I see personally of the top of my head though I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more..

Substance E.4852:

In what way is CC a class role at all when Defiant exists?

CC is not a class role. It is a role that can be practiced by a player or interchanged between various players in a group. Defiant simply restricts this to groups that are willing to and disciplined enough to strip stacks and then use CC at the right time. In other words, it can only happen in dungeons or in persistent world events where only your group is present.

What class is specifically a support class first and deeps class second if at all?

As I typed above, none of the roles in GW2 are tied to class/profession at all. However, profession design is such that some professions are more often sought because they bring desired support options to the table, while also providing good DPS.

Hell, what strength do condition classes have over power classes when enemies have a condition cap?

Conditions as implemented in GW2 are bizarre. They are designed in such a way as to provide interesting play in PvP settings (building stacks, timing when to remove), but it seems little attention was put into determining how effective multiple condition users would be in large — or even small — group PvE. I suppose the answer to your question is that condition classes strength lies in PvP settings.

For those who say “gw2 is more team play then trinity” then let me ask you a question. Do you pug dungeons? You don’t get with people who do gameplay together.

First off, no one at all pugs without a full dps setting cause everyone wants highest dps possible. Which in turn people set up for self sufficient utilities and dps increases. There is little to no support from a pug, unless you find the RARE occasion that someone actually does come in with a bit of support.

Secondly, if your arguement is “well don’t pug” then I ask you, what is the point of MMOrpg…? It’s to allow you to have access to other players who want to do the same goals. If this was not intended, and you say don’t pug, then remove the MMO and make it self server based and just let people play with their friends.

Third, dungeons literally are face roll and te top tiers of fractals requires actual team play. You aren’t going to pug it and expect 40+ to work without an issue.

Fourth, saying that this game makes it better for classes to be used, is false. Everyone has a preferred setup they want to run higher fractals. And fractals is best suggestion on this seeing as it requires most effort to do. A lot of other stuff to pug requires group effort else you will die a lot.

Fifth, trinity is still more team play. Saying that it’s not is baffling. The dungeons are not set for solo play. Even though a set dungeon can be possible to solo, doesn’t make it a solo dungeon. Dungeons are specifically made for MULTIPLE people going in as a GROUP in order to accomplish the goal. So no, it’s not based on “everyone is just there together by chance to do it”, which also in a defense, even your Last PERSONAL storyline dungeon requires a group. So no, it’s not based on yourself being th hero. Seeing as other heroes are joining you.

I have more to say but I have to get back to work.

I do miss more specific roles so combat becomes more teamwork. But that does not mean it has to be the traditional trinity. Tank and Healer would be obvious options if you have roles but just the holy trinity is not needed.

So I do miss roles but I don’t miss ‘the holy trinity’.

I don’t miss the roles.
I miss, however, a gameplay that would require real teamwork without a proper tank (more snare reliant disengages and aggro swapping). The few fights in the game were meleeing require something close to this are easily doable just by ranging.

Waiting ages for a monk to show up so I can do a dungeon?

Blaming everything on tank or healer whenever something goes wrong?

Yah, totally miss it.

EscataFlayer.8470:

3 tiers of groups.

Tank
Dps
Healer

I love the fact they made each glass so variant that they have abilities to do each, but I don’t like the fact that there is no set goals in a group. It’s just build your dps, build your own survival, give some support, face roll a dungeon. Even in gw1 if you set enemies up, they still followed a set target. Here it changes to attack person doing highest dps, or highest toughness. But bounces around between them. I loved the three tier group make up because it made having a group seem more realistic in that they relied on each other. This is heartbreaking that it is not implemented in the game. I want my groups back to needing me to be my godly monk build :/ instead I run around and just kill targets no matter the class.

Does anyone else feel this way?

I do I love games that have eliminated the requirement that you absolutely must have this to function anywhere in the world but at the same time made it available still so that if you wish to make groups like this than you can. I call it Trinity Lite because you don’t HAVE to have them to function which eliminates the problems of not having enough tanks/healers but also keeps the ability of people to form groups like this so that balance and harmony becomes the gameplay experience.

The problems in this title however aren’t limited to the lack of trinity, what they’ve done here is destroyed even the basic usefulness of their OWN trinity that they touted as the replacement. Now the only effective method in PVE because of the nerfs and the problems those nerfs cause, is burst zerker.

If they took steps to restore CC/Condition dps to PVE and actually allowed the builds in traits to give players a tank/healer option that made the difference (thus dramatically improving healing numbers in grandmaster blocks) it would restore combat diversity to PVE and improve the game overall. There have been many many suggestions on how to do this effectively even by well-known gaming personalities all of which have gone ignored for months.

The whole blaming game people experienced in WoW btw actually doesn’t happen in games with trinity lite because everyone is still pretty much in charge of their own survival and the healing/tanking is an added bonus to help control bosses and crowds.

CharrGirl.7896:

Waiting ages for a monk to show up so I can do a dungeon?

Blaming everything on tank or healer whenever something goes wrong?

Yah, totally miss it.

There are more ways to solve that then just dps, dps, dps what in practice is what we have now.

in instanced group content yes. In the open world content no, there would still be a big zerg anyway. Big zerg of dps and tanks followed by a zerg of healing/protection monks, the sight would be hilarious and at the same time absurt in the massive content. And in the open world to be self sufficient is a big plus. And we dont have dual proffesions anymore…..

I’m seeing complaints about “waiting hours for monk” but I have one thing to say. MULTIPLE class can do this. Guardians are good, Eles are good, engineers can do it. The rest have decent sustainable healing or buffing to making the job easier, and you can still do dps and heal at same time. Giving a healing/support need would also help in making the runes and different gear setups worth having in the game. As it is, the heal gears are pointless. No one uses them seeing as berserker is the only thing people want for their groups. And then tell you to survive on your own cause dugeon a are a free for all. Nothing annoys me more then getting in groups and when I go down because someone kittens up a boss element and they tell me that I should not rely on others. Cause wen I’m the only one killing larva on the legendary crawl shaman and I get killed it’s my fault right? And te answer would be yes cause I have zerk gear so dps dps dps and that’s it. There literally is no group play. It’s all Zerg free for all. And that’s not what should be done to make the game enjoyable. There are people who prefer to sit back and keep people alive. They would prefer that instead of being forced to be dps and survive.

Also, I’m in agreeance with a statement prior. Outside of pvp, toughness is useless as well as difference in armor. It just makes certain classes a little more able to survive hits but in the end, a 1 shot ability is still one shot, and 2-3 hits and you are down is still 2-3 hits. With evading being your only realm form of defense when have to choose between forced to use 2/3 survival utilities, it forces you into builds that you must use instead of letting you use many different ones, limiting build diversity which is one of the staples guild wars had above all others.

No I don’t
I can’t play trinity games anymore- I feel like I am shackled
Especially when they tie race to class to role- urghh

How can you feel shackled? Every race can play every class and none get a better benefit then the other. You aren’t “required” to play a certain class. There are multiple ways upon all aspects to play each class.

And as it is, no one has made any valid arguement as to why trinity isn’t good. You aren’t required to use it outside dungeons, you don’t need it for world zergs, it would give more challenge on wvw Zerg runs cause then you need more planning when going against other teams, and as for dungeons is gives much better group dependency instead of basic solo play. Honestly dungeons right now are no different then world Zerg groups except it’s limited to 5 people. That doesn’t make me enjoy playing with people. It FORCES me to Zerg certain places to get gear / items I want for any specific reason.

So you aren’t forced to work as a team unless you want go for the better stuff in game, but your areas you play for the items you want the better things people don’t play as a team and you struggle to get stuff done in te first place.

So basically you may not be forced to do a few certain things. But you are still forced to do some that others don’t feel try should be forced to do.

EscataFlayer.8470:

How can you feel shackled? Every race can play every class and none get a better benefit then the other. You aren’t “required” to play a certain class. There are multiple ways upon all aspects to play each class.

I do not feel shackled in GW2- that was my point.
What you state is a pro to me

I love the fact that I can do all things, depending on what is needed, on any class

I also don’t like being dependent on other people to do content- so the whole waiting for healer so I can just go on with what I want to do just does not cut it as far as I am concerned

also I really don’t appreciate being forced by game mechanics- so I especially don’t want to be forced to group.
Bugger that

We don’t need the trinity.
We are totally happy with our DPS monotheism.

Well unfortunately we are forced to run dungeons with people. If we wanted to run solo or with just 1-2 friends, we can’t without having that 5 group for the dungeon. But that is a completely different topic, especially seeing as the fractals scale up in difficulty, but try don’t scale down based on how many people go in.

But the thing is, classes are made to vary in specialties. If you want to consider yourself good at your class, then you need to learn all aspects. Give a healer spot will give better usage for many ingame viable options to be heal/support by both items and gameplay for people. Forcing a heale/support roll will be so much better, but don’t make a requirement to heal so that if the team wants a 5 man zerk, they can do so.

It would better benefit the crap pugging we have to go through in order to get a group that will do the dungeon. Where I enjoy an occasional Zerg rush, I like enemies having to need strategy to beat an make use of CC, instead of blitz and hope you kill.

Even if you don’t set a tank slot (which there is gear that makes this slot to actually be viable) a heal support is something that should be looked into being used.