Guild Wars 2

Lishtenbird.2814:

Dodge mechanic makes Zerker builds viable

“Zerker” is not a build, it’s a gear type. Gear =/= build.

/thread

The gear is part of the build.

nope, you can run a meta build with whatever gear stat you want.

why else do you think people suggest running meta with knights/soldiers pieces if new to it? because berserker is integral to the build? I think not.

Belenwyn.8674:

The gear is part of the build.

It affects the build but it’s not an integral part of it.

People ITT think that making stuff like faster autoattacks will make their tanking gear more efficient. They couldn’t be further from the truth, so called zerkers will simply adopt via trait system, utility skills and weapon choices. The gear will remain the same.

Belenwyn.8674:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Dodge mechanic makes Zerker builds viable

“Zerker” is not a build, it’s a gear type. Gear =/= build.

/thread

The gear is part of the build.

You can use full Soldier gear with the “meta” builds, because most meta builds don’t have much defensive options in skills/traits and new players need to survive somehow. The build and the playstyle doesn’t actually change at all if you use Sentinel, Soldier, Knight, Cavalier, Valkyrie, Assassin or Berserker gear. You can use the “meta” builds with either of them. Sure you will have less dps if you don’t use Berserker / Assassin, but you will have higher defensive abilities which will allow you to do a few mistakes, compensate for lag, or lack of encounter experience.

Of course stats like Condition Damage are a different story, because most “meta” builds don’t use much condition skills/traits, so if you want condition stats you will have to tweak the build, unless you use Sinister or Rampager which don’t change the build as much because they also offer Power / Precision.

States.6387:

In my opinion Anet needs to implement more attacks for bosses that dont require use of the dodge function or stacking but rather intelligent responses from the player.

An example: Boss telegraphs a huge aoe attack, the only way to avoid its damage is to jump up on a platform.

Or….

Boss telegraphs an attack, based on the telegraphed attack from the boss; players must either move to location A, B, or C to avoid damage.

Currently their is not much intelligent responses required from the players which is what makes these “bosses” seem so simple and easily defeatable with the meta zerk builds. If their were more intelligent responses required then builds could become more diverse as a toughness / vitality build could become more useful in situations where dodging or avoiding damage is not required, allowing them to dish out more damage during times zerk builds would not be able to.

How fast and how often would different classes be able to respond to a quick location change requirement?

The whole downed state mechanic can behave as a huge safety net.
Removing or tweaking it for the so called “challenging group content” would nor attack directly or exclusively offensive setups, but it could increase the risk on building that way and produce a meaningful shift on what the community perceives as best approach (on top of geting rid of a quite annoying consideration for content designers).

Nerfing the dodge functionality (or tweaking some of the current active defenses to act as damage reduction tools instead of the current full avoidance, as other people have suggested) would definitely shift the meta, but not exactly for free.
A change like this basically scraps a good part of the action combat design, where the human factor can be extremely relevant, in favor of a more classic RPG-ish approach, which is far more build and number oriented.
Not only would this screw all the people that are here precisely for the action combat component (which I understand is something that the people posting this ideas couldn’t care less about), but it would probably produce a far more static, set in stone meta.

rotten.9753:

They want their sentinel’s or even nomad’s gear to have the same efficiency as a full glass cannon gear without all the disadvantages of having much less passive defense. That’s why their suggestions are like that.

Obviously they shouldn’t be as efficent as a full glass cannon in the damage department. But they should be comparatively as efficent in the defensive (or healing, or whatever) department, according to the gear used, and assuming their skill level is on par.
As things stand now, they can’t do so – as i explained before, there is a lack of skills using such stats, thus there are no ways to skillfully use them.

But i would also add that as there are ways for players to make up for the lack of defense by using dodges and defensive skills, there should be similar ways for players to make up for some of the lack in offensive stats while using defensive gear, maybe using endurance as well.
For example, they could tie toughness to endurance and/or endurance regeneration, maybe lowering toughness’ passive effects a bit to make up for it, and put good offensive skills on certain weapons with additional endurance costs (vigor may have to be rebalanced as well in such a case). In doing so, people with high toughness may have less passive defense than now, but they would be able to choose to either dodge more or use that endurance for offensive purposes (and likely getting some damage in return, albeit softened by toughness).
Some of those skills could even have particular mechanics involved – good base power and with relatively low endurance cost but unable to crit, for example; such a skill would be tailored for a power/toughness/something that isn’t ferocity gear user, for example. And i can’t see anything wrong with that – right now, most of the offensive skills are tailored over using power/precision/ferocity gear. But that isn’t set in stone either, after all. Or sacrificing a percentage of your current endurance in exchange for an offensive bonus (based on the amount of endurance spent; thus making it more convenient for people with high endurance).

In short: just put skillful, active ways to use other stats as well, and whatever those stats do, make them equally efficent in their respective regards.

Bosses with faster, but weaker attack dont just nerf dodging.

They also nerf blocks that block only a limited number of attacks like Aegis, Arcane Shield or the Guard Focus block.

Ankushp.7245:

We currently have an ongoing discussion blaming the downed state for people using only the zerk armor build.

Lol? Why are people blaming downed state for people deciding they dont need armor?

But isnt it the dodge mechanic that plays a huge role in making the zerker gear viable ?

yes it is.

With the right trait set up you can dodge and completely nullify most of the incoming damage while dishing out maximum damage on the enemy wearing purely zerk gear.

Yeap. Thats what happens when you know what to expect from a boss/mob

I think devs must consider this while deciding on how to encourage diversification of builds in this game. Perhaps we need more attks that cannot be dodged ?

Agony. People still run zerker because they know the boss.

What are your thoughts on this ?

*Dont force the people who strategize enough to not get hit to take armor they do not need. Blowing up / getting oneshotted is the drawback to zerker. It is not a game flaw or design flaw if people are so skilled at trait builds/dodging that they can avoid damage to maximize dps.

I’m not a zerk fanatic or anti zerk fanatic; common sense dictates that armor is for people expecting to be struck at some point. Why carry a shield if you do not plan to use it? Ever seen an archer in full metal armor? Why not? (Ans: because he isnt going to get hit by a greatsword if he’s doing his job right). Maximized damage is the reward for using active defense. Don’t force people to take damage just to invalidate their choice to not take armor, if they’re good enough to avoid damage to begin with. That’s just petty. *

Manuhell.2759:

rotten.9753:

They want their sentinel’s or even nomad’s gear to have the same efficiency as a full glass cannon gear without all the disadvantages of having much less passive defense. That’s why their suggestions are like that.

Obviously they shouldn’t be as efficent as a full glass cannon in the damage department. But they should be comparatively as efficent in the defensive (or healing, or whatever) department, according to the gear used, and assuming their skill level is on par.
As things stand now, they can’t do so – as i explained before, there is a lack of skills using such stats, thus there are no ways to skillfully use them.

But i would also add that as there are ways for players to make up for the lack of defense by using dodges and defensive skills, there should be similar ways for players to make up for some of the lack in offensive stats while using defensive gear, maybe using endurance as well.
For example, they could tie toughness to endurance and/or endurance regeneration, maybe lowering toughness’ passive effects a bit to make up for it, and put good offensive skills on certain weapons with additional endurance costs (vigor may have to be rebalanced as well in such a case). In doing so, people with high toughness may have less passive defense than now, but they would be able to choose to either dodge more or use that endurance for offensive purposes (and likely getting some damage in return, albeit softened by toughness).
Some of those skills could even have particular mechanics involved – good base power and with relatively low endurance cost but unable to crit, for example; such a skill would be tailored for a power/toughness/something that isn’t ferocity gear user, for example. And i can’t see anything wrong with that – right now, most of the offensive skills are tailored over using power/precision/ferocity gear. But that isn’t set in stone either, after all. Or sacrificing a percentage of your current endurance in exchange for an offensive bonus (based on the amount of endurance spent; thus making it more convenient for people with high endurance).

In short: just put skillful, active ways to use other stats as well, and whatever those stats do, make them equally efficent in their respective regards.

Aha thanks for that great reply

I am not asking for dodge to be removed or such, have just tried to highlight what helps make zerker gear the meta in this game and looking for suggestions like the quoted post above.

The people who are not able to play efficiently with zerk gear due to their lack of skill at dodging and using other skill based damage absorbers are in no way a minority (PUG groups are proof……) Many new players who want to play tanky builds or support builds are unable to do PVE content like dungeons due to this insistence on zerk gear and yes the fact that the builds that they want to use are indeed inefficient and add no value to gameplay.

Agony damage in fractals MADE you get agony resistance on ur armor, similarly content that MAKES u go in the defensive or use heals is one way to go. Or the other way would be to change the effect/utility of the other stats in some way like many others have suggested in this thread.

Ankushp.7245:

The people who are not able to play efficiently with zerk gear due to their lack of skill at dodging and using other skill based damage absorbers are in no way a minority (PUG groups are proof……) Many new players who want to play tanky builds or support builds are unable to do PVE content like dungeons due to this insistence on zerk gear and yes the fact that the builds that they want to use are indeed inefficient and add no value to gameplay.

But from my experience on EU, there are way more dungeon LFGs with no requirements whatsoever. Okay, some of them kick you if you arent 80, or if you use very bad weapons/utilities etc.
But zerk only LFGs, and especially the gearcheck ones are a minority.

Ankushp.7245:

Many new players who want to play tanky builds or support builds are unable to do PVE content like dungeons

wow. No words.

Manuhell.2759:

Obviously they shouldn’t be as efficent as a full glass cannon in the damage department. But they should be comparatively as efficent in the defensive (or healing, or whatever) department, according to the gear used, and assuming their skill level is on par.
As things stand now, they can’t do so – as i explained before, there is a lack of skills using such stats, thus there are no ways to skillfully use them.

But i would also add that as there are ways for players to make up for the lack of defense by using dodges and defensive skills, there should be similar ways for players to make up for some of the lack in offensive stats while using defensive gear, maybe using endurance as well.
For example, they could tie toughness to endurance and/or endurance regeneration, maybe lowering toughness’ passive effects a bit to make up for it, and put good offensive skills on certain weapons with additional endurance costs (vigor may have to be rebalanced as well in such a case). In doing so, people with high toughness may have less passive defense than now, but they would be able to choose to either dodge more or use that endurance for offensive purposes (and likely getting some damage in return, albeit softened by toughness).
Some of those skills could even have particular mechanics involved – good base power and with relatively low endurance cost but unable to crit, for example; such a skill would be tailored for a power/toughness/something that isn’t ferocity gear user, for example. And i can’t see anything wrong with that – right now, most of the offensive skills are tailored over using power/precision/ferocity gear. But that isn’t set in stone either, after all. Or sacrificing a percentage of your current endurance in exchange for an offensive bonus (based on the amount of endurance spent; thus making it more convenient for people with high endurance).

In short: just put skillful, active ways to use other stats as well, and whatever those stats do, make them equally efficent in their respective regards.

Defensive playstyle is already pretty powerful, I believe I linked some videos. If not then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1mxlA13ICk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMx9VJYD78s

Also, reactive healing should never be as good as proactive protection. The required skill level is on a completely different level. You can compare how hard it was to compete in gvgs as a fuse and as a prot in gw1.

Skill based gameplay makes zerker viable. GW2 is a skill based action game. Because of that, zerker, or more specifically, full offense, will always reign supreme for skilled players. Nothing will ever change that unless GW2 specifically implements gear based difficulty, as seen in traditional RPGs where it’s not your skill, but your gear that is the deciding factor.

Dark Souls for example is a challenging skill based action game. Those who can will stack offense whereas those who can’t will stack defense. The elite are capable of playing naked, so why would they ever bother with defense unless they wanted to play casually.

As GW2 continues to increase the difficulty, some people will find that they’re no longer capable of wearing zerkers, then the next step down will be the next popular. This will create a wave however, where everyone except the most elite will be shifted down and the worst players in the game will find that not even nomad’s will save them.

There will never be a solution to the “zerker meta” since it’s not a problem. It will however shrink over time as the game becomes more difficult.

Healix.5819:

Skill based gameplay makes zerker viable. GW2 is a skill based action game. Because of that, zerker, or more specifically, full offense, will always reign supreme for skilled players. Nothing will ever change that unless GW2 specifically implements gear based difficulty, as seen in traditional RPGs where it’s not your skill, but your gear that is the deciding factor.

Dark Souls for example is a challenging skill based action game. Those who can will stack offense whereas those who can’t will stack defense. The elite are capable of playing naked, so why would they ever bother with defense unless they wanted to play casually.

As GW2 continues to increase the difficulty, some people will find that they’re no longer capable of wearing zerkers, then the next step down will be the next popular. This will create a wave however, where everyone except the most elite will be shifted down and the worst players in the game will find that not even nomad’s will save them.

There will never be a solution to the “zerker meta” since it’s not a problem. It will however shrink over time as the game becomes more difficult.

This.

The problem that is being ‘addressed’ or diagnosed as a zerker issue is just a effect of skilled gameplay. You cant “fix” it by forcing people to play something else. At the end of the day, people will gravitate toward dispatching enemies as fast as possible, whether that be zerkers or some other prefix.

Theres an underlying problem for people that are asking to nerf the all glass, no defense prefix. that is what needs to be addressed, whatever it may be.

From what I understood anyway, the other discussion was not blaming the downed state for encouraging the use of zerker gear specifically, as much as it was blaming it for the way dungeon runs are almost invariably run, in general.

A dodge mechanic is not a main contributing factor, from that POV, as it just gives you a little more survivability; whether you are stacking, or not.

Whereas, the fact buffs are only shared while stacked, the downed state meaning it is easier to res people within a stack and melee weapons all doing more damage than ranged, do all contribute to this less than ideal wear zerker and then skip>stack>melee>rinse and repeat style of gameplay.

Removing the dodge mechanic might make zerker gear less desirable, but it would also make more free-form, ranged playstyles even less desirable, as well.

Which I don’t think would be a good thing.

Whereas, getting rid of the downed state, making buffs group-wide (without stacking) and making the damage dealt by ranged and melee weaps equal, would all encourage people to play in a far less rigid, stack obsessed way.

When I first started playing this game, I saw that we had our own heal on ranger and I thought “Oh great! That presumably means less stacking for heals.”, as in WoW the only reason you have to stack and/or stay within healing range, sometimes, is for heals.

But, of course it didn’t work out that way, as it turns out that you have to stack for pretty much everything, anyway.

I find the usage of the word ‘skill’ humorous in this topic.
Pressing a key when a boss/mob gives a tell tale windup animation that basically may as well flash “PRESS DODGE NOW” on the screen doesn’t involve a lot of skill, unless paying attention is what we’re calling skill here.
Sure it gives the game alot more of an action feel, but it leads to mindless gameplay. DD, DD, DD, see wind-up, dodge, DD, DD, DD, see wind-up, dodge, rinse and repeat.
I’d love to see them open up other builds to being more viable in PvE, but honestly the zerker meta doesn’t really effect anything I do.

Healix.5819:

Skill based gameplay makes zerker viable. GW2 is a skill based action game. Because of that, zerker, or more specifically, full offense, will always reign supreme for skilled players. Nothing will ever change that unless GW2 specifically implements gear based difficulty, as seen in traditional RPGs where it’s not your skill, but your gear that is the deciding factor.

Dark Souls for example is a challenging skill based action game. Those who can will stack offense whereas those who can’t will stack defense. The elite are capable of playing naked, so why would they ever bother with defense unless they wanted to play casually.

As GW2 continues to increase the difficulty, some people will find that they’re no longer capable of wearing zerkers, then the next step down will be the next popular. This will create a wave however, where everyone except the most elite will be shifted down and the worst players in the game will find that not even nomad’s will save them.

There will never be a solution to the “zerker meta” since it’s not a problem. It will however shrink over time as the game becomes more difficult.

^ this and +1

Another problem is the AI we have is predictable, and the rotation is stale.

I’m waiting for Anet to design an AI that randomizes its attack pattern and uses skills depending on the situation.
I would also like to see an AI that is made to win, not just to be there and be a hindrance.
But in changing the difficulty of the game.
You also have to change the rewards it gives, otherwise, we end up with an open world aether path that no one will want to do but once. Because it isn’t worth the difficulty.

maddoctor.2738:

Test.8734:

rotten.9753:

I see you like passive gameplay where your stats instead of your actions influence the end results. That’s okay, everyone should have an opinion but you should maybe try a different game where it is already happening instead of constantly complaining here without any result.

Are you that concerned about a game in which berserker isn’t king? Don’t worry, you would still have your existing playground. Everything else would require more and better, but if you don’t want to adapt, you can stay at what’s already there.

How is standing still and facetanking content “more and better”?

This again? Did I say anything about “standing still and facetanking content”? Nope.

The arguments against berzerker are clear as day. The answers can’t do better than to rely on statements that don’t exist. Looks pretty obvious what side ArenaNet should listen to.

Healix.5819:

Skill based gameplay makes zerker viable. GW2 is a skill based action game. Because of that, zerker, or more specifically, full offense, will always reign supreme for skilled players. Nothing will ever change that unless GW2 specifically implements gear based difficulty, as seen in traditional RPGs where it’s not your skill, but your gear that is the deciding factor.

Dark Souls for example is a challenging skill based action game. Those who can will stack offense whereas those who can’t will stack defense. The elite are capable of playing naked, so why would they ever bother with defense unless they wanted to play casually.

As GW2 continues to increase the difficulty, some people will find that they’re no longer capable of wearing zerkers, then the next step down will be the next popular. This will create a wave however, where everyone except the most elite will be shifted down and the worst players in the game will find that not even nomad’s will save them.

There will never be a solution to the “zerker meta” since it’s not a problem. It will however shrink over time as the game becomes more difficult.

It is not “skilful” to spend an entire dungeon with your character standing on top of other characters, not moving a muscle (except to dodge into a wall), ressing each other on the spot and meleeing.

The only “skill” involved there is the process of learning where to skip and where to stop and stack.

MrRuin.9740:

I find the usage of the word ‘skill’ humorous in this topic.
Pressing a key when a boss/mob gives a tell tale windup animation that basically may as well flash “PRESS DODGE NOW” on the screen doesn’t involve a lot of skill, unless paying attention is what we’re calling skill here.
Sure it gives the game alot more of an action feel, but it leads to mindless gameplay. DD, DD, DD, see wind-up, dodge, DD, DD, DD, see wind-up, dodge, rinse and repeat.
I’d love to see them open up other builds to being more viable in PvE, but honestly the zerker meta doesn’t really effect anything I do.

Just a note; “Skill” also involves ports, blocks, reflects, blinds, kiting and all other damage mitigation not built directly into armor.

Tigaseye.2047:

Healix.5819:

Skill based gameplay makes zerker viable. GW2 is a skill based action game. Because of that, zerker, or more specifically, full offense, will always reign supreme for skilled players. Nothing will ever change that unless GW2 specifically implements gear based difficulty, as seen in traditional RPGs where it’s not your skill, but your gear that is the deciding factor.

Dark Souls for example is a challenging skill based action game. Those who can will stack offense whereas those who can’t will stack defense. The elite are capable of playing naked, so why would they ever bother with defense unless they wanted to play casually.

As GW2 continues to increase the difficulty, some people will find that they’re no longer capable of wearing zerkers, then the next step down will be the next popular. This will create a wave however, where everyone except the most elite will be shifted down and the worst players in the game will find that not even nomad’s will save them.

There will never be a solution to the “zerker meta” since it’s not a problem. It will however shrink over time as the game becomes more difficult.

It is not “skilful” to spend an entire dungeon with your character standing on top of other characters, not moving a muscle (except to dodge into a wall), ressing each other on the spot and meleeing.

The only “skill” involved there is the process of learning where to skip and where to stop and stack.

Now if only dungeons where any where near endgame content you’d be right. Try stacking every single step of a fractal 50 and see how far you get. Will it work in some places? Yes.

I’m sick of people always going:“But this dungeon.. blablabla”. Dungeons are not endgame any more. Most of them are 2.5 years old and have not seen any significant difficulty increase.

Same goes for most open world events where the zerg dominates.

The only place semi interesting for “endgame” builds is high level fractals. Here Zerker gear in the right hands outperforms other stat combos. This won’t change. This might get amended in favor of more/different damage types. But for everyone wanting defensive stats to be viable in a game designed like GW2, keep on dreaming. As long as skill allows you to avoid most/all damage, maximum damage gear will prevail. That’s how it should be.

Chobiko.9182:

What hurts the game in terms of zerker-meta is that content is either:

A. Not-punishing squishy builds enough
B. Not providing viable alternatives

A. squishy builds are punished more than any other build in this game.
B. every other option is viable.

viable = works
optimal = works best

whats optimal in pve solely depends on player skill.

Chobiko.9182:

TL;DR: ANet needs to look at how to make support builds more viable, and possibly change how armor/weapons affect stats.

every pve meta build is a support build.

Ankushp.7245:

Magnnus.5169:

Dodging is great. The issue is bosses that use one big attack with a huge windup.

Yea faster attacks instead of that one big attack would help.

top kek.

the bugged autoattack forces the player to avoid twice if not 3 times as much. and guess what? i used a filthy zerker build.

Tigaseye.2047:

It is not “skilful” to spend an entire dungeon with your character standing on top of other characters, not moving a muscle (except to dodge into a wall), ressing each other on the spot and meleeing.

The only “skill” involved there is the process of learning where to skip and where to stop and stack.

you are one of those people who get carried through dungeons every single day and you dont even realize it.

Test.8734:

maddoctor.2738:

Test.8734:

rotten.9753:

I see you like passive gameplay where your stats instead of your actions influence the end results. That’s okay, everyone should have an opinion but you should maybe try a different game where it is already happening instead of constantly complaining here without any result.

Are you that concerned about a game in which berserker isn’t king? Don’t worry, you would still have your existing playground. Everything else would require more and better, but if you don’t want to adapt, you can stay at what’s already there.

How is standing still and facetanking content “more and better”?

This again? Did I say anything about “standing still and facetanking content”? Nope.

The arguments against berzerker are clear as day. The answers can’t do better than to rely on statements that don’t exist. Looks pretty obvious what side ArenaNet should listen to.

so much fun.

people who are against berserker dont understand how this game works and it is disgusting when people with inferior game understanding and knowledge talk about problems that dont even exist.

rotten.9753:

Defensive playstyle is already pretty powerful, I believe I linked some videos. If not then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1mxlA13ICk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMx9VJYD78s

If anything, they just further demonstrate what i’ve written above. They’ve spent a lot of resources to increase healing power, but they haven’t even got enough native ways to make use of it. Thus they have to resort to runes, traits and sigils (and food in warrior’s case) just to use said stat, and that in turn means they’ll have to neglect anything else. Again, just to have ways to use said healing power, not to make said healings stronger.
And many of those are basically passive procs, thus nothing that could really be called a skillful play.
Even then, they still had to rely on defensive skills (thus not tied to any stat) to protect themselves from burst damages, or even kite in some cases to passively heal while doing so (warrior vs. bear form mossman). At least those involved some skill, if only to time them well enough.

In the end, it is as i said above: there is a lack of native, active ways to use said stats. For some, one can partially make up with runes, sigils,food,traits (but it will usually end up in passive processings). For others there are just no ways to actively use them.

Also, reactive healing should never be as good as proactive protection. The required skill level is on a completely different level. You can compare how hard it was to compete in gvgs as a fuse and as a prot in gw1.

I can agree with that, but healing as now just does that, and it even needs outside sources to be even worth of investment. Even if we had proper,native skillful ways to use said stat, it would be useless if it wasn’t efficent in the only thing it can do. I still think that broading its scope of application would be a better choice, though.
Likewise, having some active defensive skills tied to some defensive stat would be interesting as well (prevent X damage – dependant on vitality or toughness – during the next Y seconds, for example).

NoTrigger.8396:

you are one of those people who get carried through dungeons every single day and you dont even realize it..

You are one of those people who make rude assumptions, which are normally totally incorrect.

No, I don’t do dungeons, at all, because that is how virtually everyone else wants to do them and I don’t, because I don’t enjoy it.

But, it is the design of the game (including, but certainly not limited to, some of the gear) which encourages that playstyle.

Actually, personally, I’m not anti-zerker gear half as much as I’m anti the other things I mentioned, as I think it contributes less than them to the overall problem.

But, as it still does contribute, or help facilitate, to an extent, it is still part of the problem, whether you want to admit it, or not.

Oh and a shift key exists, BTW, just in case you hadn’t noticed.

Cyninja.2954:

Tigaseye.2047:

Healix.5819:

Skill based gameplay makes zerker viable. GW2 is a skill based action game. Because of that, zerker, or more specifically, full offense, will always reign supreme for skilled players. Nothing will ever change that unless GW2 specifically implements gear based difficulty, as seen in traditional RPGs where it’s not your skill, but your gear that is the deciding factor.

Dark Souls for example is a challenging skill based action game. Those who can will stack offense whereas those who can’t will stack defense. The elite are capable of playing naked, so why would they ever bother with defense unless they wanted to play casually.

As GW2 continues to increase the difficulty, some people will find that they’re no longer capable of wearing zerkers, then the next step down will be the next popular. This will create a wave however, where everyone except the most elite will be shifted down and the worst players in the game will find that not even nomad’s will save them.

There will never be a solution to the “zerker meta” since it’s not a problem. It will however shrink over time as the game becomes more difficult.

It is not “skilful” to spend an entire dungeon with your character standing on top of other characters, not moving a muscle (except to dodge into a wall), ressing each other on the spot and meleeing.

The only “skill” involved there is the process of learning where to skip and where to stop and stack.

Now if only dungeons where any where near endgame content you’d be right. Try stacking every single step of a fractal 50 and see how far you get. Will it work in some places? Yes.

I’m sick of people always going:“But this dungeon.. blablabla”. Dungeons are not endgame any more. Most of them are 2.5 years old and have not seen any significant difficulty increase.

Same goes for most open world events where the zerg dominates.

The only place semi interesting for “endgame” builds is high level fractals. Here Zerker gear in the right hands outperforms other stat combos. This won’t change. This might get amended in favor of more/different damage types. But for everyone wanting defensive stats to be viable in a game designed like GW2, keep on dreaming. As long as skill allows you to avoid most/all damage, maximum damage gear will prevail. That’s how it should be.

I appreciate that dungeons are no longer new content, to you, but not everyone has been playing this game for years.

Meaning that the group content a lot of newer people are exposed to, at endgame, is a boring cheesefest, due to cheesing being allowed/encouraged by the faulty game design.

This doesn’t give a good example to newer players and even older players, who still do dungeons, treat them like a chore they just have to get through to make some gold.

Vague promises of “Well, once you finally get to x, or y, level fractals, it will be less boring.” are not good enough, from a design POV, if your first experiences of group PVE are enough to put you off group PVE, in this game, for life.

I will never understand the people who have a problem with the gameplay in dungeons.

well ok no i understand some of the hate for what pugs do, like pushing bosses into walls when they dont need to be pushed. But aside from that i find that most people who hate on the berserker meta, think that being squishy = losing and stacking together. No the reason why people stack behind corners is because its cleaner to fight that way. I dont want to stand outside and get hit by every chanter while slowly killing them one by one. Id rather LoS them around the corner and kill them all at once with some blinds. That has little to do with berserker gear. Even if soldier’s was meta id still do the same thing. Why that kind of gameplay, using your brain (which i know even people who stack dont use because they only do what theyve seen before) to make killing mobs easier, should be punished…it makes no sense.

Dodging is a great mechanic and the ability to play even the hardest content with little protection makes the game interesting, more difficult, and just fun. I love the risk i take in berserker gear when im meleeing archdiviner or shaman when everyone else is ranging. Its fun and its more difficult than playing with nomad’s gear.

However, i can agree with the OP but for different reasons. I like the fact that mai trin’s shot is un dodgeable. Ofc you can use skills to block it, you can kind of dodge it with fiery rush or heartseeker, but you cant flat out dodge it. That along with the unblockable projectiles makes the whole scenario interesting and rewards players who can manage those attacks. If more bosses had interesting mechanics that promoted the use of different skills at different times, blocks, reflects, dodges, i would be 100% in support of that. As long as those new mechanics didnt come with a canon phase

Tigaseye.2047:

Cyninja.2954:

Tigaseye.2047:

Healix.5819:

Skill based gameplay makes zerker viable. GW2 is a skill based action game. Because of that, zerker, or more specifically, full offense, will always reign supreme for skilled players. Nothing will ever change that unless GW2 specifically implements gear based difficulty, as seen in traditional RPGs where it’s not your skill, but your gear that is the deciding factor.

Dark Souls for example is a challenging skill based action game. Those who can will stack offense whereas those who can’t will stack defense. The elite are capable of playing naked, so why would they ever bother with defense unless they wanted to play casually.

As GW2 continues to increase the difficulty, some people will find that they’re no longer capable of wearing zerkers, then the next step down will be the next popular. This will create a wave however, where everyone except the most elite will be shifted down and the worst players in the game will find that not even nomad’s will save them.

There will never be a solution to the “zerker meta” since it’s not a problem. It will however shrink over time as the game becomes more difficult.

It is not “skilful” to spend an entire dungeon with your character standing on top of other characters, not moving a muscle (except to dodge into a wall), ressing each other on the spot and meleeing.

The only “skill” involved there is the process of learning where to skip and where to stop and stack.

Now if only dungeons where any where near endgame content you’d be right. Try stacking every single step of a fractal 50 and see how far you get. Will it work in some places? Yes.

I’m sick of people always going:“But this dungeon.. blablabla”. Dungeons are not endgame any more. Most of them are 2.5 years old and have not seen any significant difficulty increase.

Same goes for most open world events where the zerg dominates.

The only place semi interesting for “endgame” builds is high level fractals. Here Zerker gear in the right hands outperforms other stat combos. This won’t change. This might get amended in favor of more/different damage types. But for everyone wanting defensive stats to be viable in a game designed like GW2, keep on dreaming. As long as skill allows you to avoid most/all damage, maximum damage gear will prevail. That’s how it should be.

I appreciate that dungeons are no longer new content, to you, but not everyone has been playing this game for years.

Meaning that the group content a lot of newer people are exposed to, at endgame, is a boring cheesefest, due to cheesing being allowed/encouraged by the faulty game design.

This doesn’t give a good example to newer players and even older players, who still do dungeons, treat them like a chore they just have to get through to make some gold.

Vague promises of “Well, once you finally get to x, or y, level fractals, it will be less boring.” are not good enough, from a design POV, if your first experiences of group PVE are enough to put you off group PVE, in this game, for life.

It’s not about who does the content. It’s about how hard that content is. Sure we could redesign dungeons so that Zerker gear is not viable any more by adding undodgable damage or making the stuff to evade insanely hard.

Result:

A LOT!!! of players now not able to complete dungeons putting on more defensive gear slugging away for ages to get through. A small minority of players who are still able to wear full zerkers or as much damage as possible rushing through the content as they do now.

Guess who will have more fun?

The problem with dungeons is not that new players haven’t seen them, it’s that they are NOT endgame. That’s like going to Bliz and telling them to redo level 90 areas and make them more challenging while endgame is level 100.

GW2 is designed around an organized party being able to mitigate all damage thrown at them and synergy effects are big when organized. We do not have a holy trinity here. It’s all about survive and do maximum damage. Changing that would require fundamental changes, and some of those would not be in a good or fun way.

maddoctor.2738:

Of course stats like Condition Damage are a different story, because most “meta” builds don’t use much condition skills/traits, so if you want condition stats you will have to tweak the build, unless you use Sinister or Rampager which don’t change the build as much because they also offer Power / Precision.

When running condition builds you want to make sure you do conditions…, have duration and make sure you can survive the required ticks.

IMHO rampager is precision heavy and not quite powerfull as a condition gear. Sinister However is a full condition stat, and when running sinister you’ll notice you’ll use condition weapons, as investing heavily in condition dmg and power also requires you to do conidtions to kill stuff… else you’d gone and used a power stat…..
For warrior you could use a GS when having sinister but most would opt for swords, and longbows. sword will not allow you to do more then get some 33% chance bleeds, while sword will auto 2 blees and have toerment and bleeds on offhand, longbow will provide a very powerfull skill with a lot of bleeds and quite a good burning uptime.. good thing about sinister is the power attacks will do good dmg, up to 10k dmg with Final Trust (#3) if the conditions are met, and aboout half the dmg for Rip (2nd #4).
allowing you to do ~14k dmg vs zerkers…

People join a game advertised around no trinity and active combat system.

Get mad that they can’t play pure tanks and have to dodge.

Makes sense.

The use blocks and reflects is an active play, but there are enemy skills that you cannot block or reflect. I support the idea of skills that you can’t dodge.

Would like to solve this one gear to all dilemma.
Giving bosses an “enrage” (based on damage or otherwise maybe not from dots) could potentially either ruin the glass cannon meta or just cause unnecessary stress to the player leaving the berserkers just getting better at dodging.

Guild Wars had defensive stat synergy up to being able to duo most of the pve content. The middle ground for stat diversity could be never possible to design without having the trinity to appear.

hybrid.5027:

People join a game advertised around no trinity and active combat system.

Get mad that they can’t play pure tanks and have to dodge.

Makes sense.

plus one to you.

The use blocks and reflects is an active play, but there are enemy skills that you cannot block or reflect. I support the idea of skills that you can’t dodge.

you support the idea of removing active defense from an active combat system

well ok there buddy, what’s the alternative to these undodgeable hits? you can’t dodge mai trin teleport but you can block it, you can’t block champion spider AOE but you can dodge it, so you mean like that?

Tigaseye.2047:

No, I don’t do dungeons, at all, because that is how virtually everyone else wants to do them and I don’t, because I don’t enjoy it.

ok so you dont run any dungeons or fractals but then you talk about “problems” that dont even exist in pve. absolutely makes sense to me.

I absolutely love how the solution to fix builds that dont need defensive stats is “force them to take a hit once in a while! They shouldn’t be able to dodge Everything”

That’s infraction bait.

Are you kitten me-

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

I dont think that there should be more unblockable attacks, but I think that there should be many more punishing ones so that you either have to be extremely skilled to survive as a zerker, or you have to bring some healers/ wear tankier armor. The whole concept of a glass cannon gear set is large risk/ large reward, and there is currently no risk in pve.

People join a game advertised around no trinity and active combat system.

Get mad that they can’t play pure tanks and have to dodge.

Makes sense.

See my interpretation of them “eliminating the holy trinity” was that they didnt want certain classes to be locked into certain roles, not that they wanted everyone to run the same gear set. “No holy trinity” simply means that every class has the potential to fill the role of dps/tank/support/healer but no one is locked into anything. I believe the 24 different armor types is evidence of this intended diversity, not the DPS is king meta for pve we have today.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

You’re trying to fix an issue with inefficacy of holy trinity roles in a game that not only does not have them, but does not use a normal aggro table to even begin to support roles.

Guild wars 2 doesnt need tanks. you can be support just as well by being a decent guardian. The other specs are to compensate for builds that lack mobility or deal certain damages.

The game advertised no role shoehorning. Why are people confusing that with a design flaw?

I am not sure but is this really about defensive and support skills/gear not being viable outside dodge? If dodge would get removed berserker could potentially still be the top choice.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

there arent tanks in gw2 and thats why a player who wants to roleplay a tank will slow everything down.
and everyone is supporting each other. every single meta build is a support build.

NoTrigger.8396:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

there arent tanks in gw2 and thats why a player who wants to roleplay a tank will slow everything down.
and everyone is supporting each other. every single meta build is a support build.

Exactly my point. Why even offer build diversity at this point?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

You’re trying to fix an issue with inefficacy of holy trinity roles in a game that not only does not have them, but does not use a normal aggro table to even begin to support roles.

Guild wars 2 doesnt need tanks. you can be support just as well by being a decent guardian. The other specs are to compensate for builds that lack mobility or deal certain damages.

You CAN, but why? There’s literally no reason to. If you can dodge everything, go glass cannon and do everything exactly the same, why is there any reason to do anything else?

It has nothing to do with holy trinity, so that’s an invalid point. Please reread my comment. It has to do with offering different stats, and builds, and not having them be useful.

You have a game that offers build variability, with no way to support them, or make them viable. Having a better aggro table would be a good start.

In other games there’s a reason to be a tank, a reason to be ranged dps, a reason to etc. Here you get none of that. I understand how it CURRENTLY works, i just would like to see some change.

Now note i never said it SHOULD be required, or any of that, so please look at my point again.

tboneking.2531:

I dont think that there should be more unblockable attacks, but I think that there should be many more punishing ones so that you either have to be extremely skilled to survive as a zerker, or you have to bring some healers/ wear tankier armor. The whole concept of a glass cannon gear set is large risk/ large reward, and there is currently no risk in pve.

People join a game advertised around no trinity and active combat system.

Get mad that they can’t play pure tanks and have to dodge.

Makes sense.

See my interpretation of them “eliminating the holy trinity” was that they didnt want certain classes to be locked into certain roles, not that they wanted everyone to run the same gear set. “No holy trinity” simply means that every class has the potential to fill the role of dps/tank/support/healer but no one is locked into anything. I believe the 24 different armor types is evidence of this intended diversity, not the DPS is king meta for pve we have today.

in other games you have tank, healer, dps.

in gw2 your tank is your active defense, your healer is your personal healing skills and water field, whats left is dps and most important unique support from different classes.

guardian focus 5 isnt only a defensive skill or a damage skill, it becomes a support skill as soon as you blast a combo field with it.

thats how the game works. why is it so hard to understand?

edgarallanpwn.8739:

You CAN, but why? There’s literally no reason to. If you can dodge everything, go glass cannon and do everything exactly the same, why is there any reason to do anything else?

It has nothing to do with holy trinity, so that’s an invalid point. Please reread my comment. It has to do with offering different stats, and builds, and not having them be useful.

You have a game that offers build variability, with no way to support them, or make them viable. Having a better aggro table would be a good start.

In other games there’s a reason to be a tank, a reason to be ranged dps, a reason to etc. Here you get none of that. I understand how it CURRENTLY works, i just would like to see some change.

Now note i never said it SHOULD be required, or any of that, so please look at my point again.

in trinity mmos every tank is the same, every healer is the same, every dps is the same.

and please………. every gear set is viable. viable doesnt mean optimal. and optimal depends on player skill.

and i dont understand why promoting skilled play over passive defense is a bad thing.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Exactly my point. Why even offer build diversity at this point?

But there is lots of build diversity in the game. Gear != build.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

NoTrigger.8396:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

there arent tanks in gw2 and thats why a player who wants to roleplay a tank will slow everything down.
and everyone is supporting each other. every single meta build is a support build.

Exactly my point. Why even offer build diversity at this point?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

You’re trying to fix an issue with inefficacy of holy trinity roles in a game that not only does not have them, but does not use a normal aggro table to even begin to support roles.

Guild wars 2 doesnt need tanks. you can be support just as well by being a decent guardian. The other specs are to compensate for builds that lack mobility or deal certain damages.

You CAN, but why? There’s literally no reason to. If you can dodge everything, go glass cannon and do everything exactly the same, why is there any reason to do anything else?

It has nothing to do with holy trinity, so that’s an invalid point. Please reread my comment. It has to do with offering different stats, and builds, and not having them be useful.

You have a game that offers build variability, with no way to support them, or make them viable. Having a better aggro table would be a good start.

In other games there’s a reason to be a tank, a reason to be ranged dps, a reason to etc. Here you get none of that. I understand how it CURRENTLY works, i just would like to see some change.

Now note i never said it SHOULD be required, or any of that, so please look at my point again.

?

But the builds are viable.

You can use whatever the hell you want in terms of gear, and if your build can make the best of it, it works.

Just because it’s viable does not mean it will be the best at doing everything, or even filling a requirement for a specific game mode.

I’m not sure I understand. Of course you arent asking for enforced roles; but are you asking instead for a system rework in which it doesn’t matter (or perhaps matters less re: damage) which stats you build with, in order to make all of the gear equally optimal in every situation?

NoTrigger.8396:

tboneking.2531:

I dont think that there should be more unblockable attacks, but I think that there should be many more punishing ones so that you either have to be extremely skilled to survive as a zerker, or you have to bring some healers/ wear tankier armor. The whole concept of a glass cannon gear set is large risk/ large reward, and there is currently no risk in pve.

People join a game advertised around no trinity and active combat system.

Get mad that they can’t play pure tanks and have to dodge.

Makes sense.

See my interpretation of them “eliminating the holy trinity” was that they didnt want certain classes to be locked into certain roles, not that they wanted everyone to run the same gear set. “No holy trinity” simply means that every class has the potential to fill the role of dps/tank/support/healer but no one is locked into anything. I believe the 24 different armor types is evidence of this intended diversity, not the DPS is king meta for pve we have today.

in other games you have tank, healer, dps.

in gw2 your tank is your active defense, your healer is your personal healing skills and water field, whats left is dps and most important unique support from different classes.

guardian focus 5 isnt only a defensive skill or a damage skill, it becomes a support skill as soon as you blast a combo field with it.

thats how the game works. why is it so hard to understand?

Its not hard to understand. Its just that I dont believe thats what anet intended. Im not sure how you can see that there are literally 24 gear sets, and see that 23 of them dont see any use, and think that thats how the game was intended to be played.

tboneking.2531:

Its not hard to understand. Its just that I dont believe thats what anet intended. Im not sure how you can see that there are literally 24 gear sets, and see that 23 of them don’t see any use, and think that that’s how the game was intended to be played.

It’s not “any” use. PvP and WvW are much more diverse, since tactics change depending on characters and builds. The complaint about the Berserker Meta is almost exclusively in dungeons that have been sitting idle for years. The tactics are sound and well-rehearsed, so those who speedrun can afford to use Berserker gear.

That’s it. That’s the reason.

In more chaotic surroundings, with less scripted tactics, Berserker gear and the tactics that often come with it become a much higher case of risk-to-reward ratios. And with more diverse enemies that have significantly higher armor coming in HoT, that content will end up with its own meta.

tboneking.2531:

NoTrigger.8396:

tboneking.2531:

I dont think that there should be more unblockable attacks, but I think that there should be many more punishing ones so that you either have to be extremely skilled to survive as a zerker, or you have to bring some healers/ wear tankier armor. The whole concept of a glass cannon gear set is large risk/ large reward, and there is currently no risk in pve.

People join a game advertised around no trinity and active combat system.

Get mad that they can’t play pure tanks and have to dodge.

Makes sense.

See my interpretation of them “eliminating the holy trinity” was that they didnt want certain classes to be locked into certain roles, not that they wanted everyone to run the same gear set. “No holy trinity” simply means that every class has the potential to fill the role of dps/tank/support/healer but no one is locked into anything. I believe the 24 different armor types is evidence of this intended diversity, not the DPS is king meta for pve we have today.

in other games you have tank, healer, dps.

in gw2 your tank is your active defense, your healer is your personal healing skills and water field, whats left is dps and most important unique support from different classes.

guardian focus 5 isnt only a defensive skill or a damage skill, it becomes a support skill as soon as you blast a combo field with it.

thats how the game works. why is it so hard to understand?

Its not hard to understand. Its just that I dont believe thats what anet intended. Im not sure how you can see that there are literally 24 gear sets, and see that 23 of them dont see any use, and think that thats how the game was intended to be played.

Valid point. So start making suggestions addressing the problem. Unlinke what people have been doing till now.

Best bet right now is for condition damage to get made pve viable. The fact that there are 24 different stat sets says nothing about how many of them should be made viable.

The fact that you get some stats moved around and go:“Tada, new stat set.” Has nothing to do with how many should be viable.

Right now there is 5 major different aspect stats provide:

A.) Direct damage via Power
B.) Critical chance via Ferocity and Precision
C.) Condition damage
D.) Survival via Healthpool
E.) Survival via Toughness

C-E are useless in PvE. Them existing and being available does not mean they need to get used. Those stats are there for other aspects of the game. Mainly sPvP and WvW. The most one can hope for is for C to get uped enough to be a sidegrade to A+B.

because this game is balanced around pvp where multiple gear stats are actually used?

“don’t see any use”?

please at least do some research before making bold claims like that.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

NoTrigger.8396:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

there arent tanks in gw2 and thats why a player who wants to roleplay a tank will slow everything down.
and everyone is supporting each other. every single meta build is a support build.

Exactly my point. Why even offer build diversity at this point?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

You’re trying to fix an issue with inefficacy of holy trinity roles in a game that not only does not have them, but does not use a normal aggro table to even begin to support roles.

Guild wars 2 doesnt need tanks. you can be support just as well by being a decent guardian. The other specs are to compensate for builds that lack mobility or deal certain damages.

You CAN, but why? There’s literally no reason to. If you can dodge everything, go glass cannon and do everything exactly the same, why is there any reason to do anything else?

It has nothing to do with holy trinity, so that’s an invalid point. Please reread my comment. It has to do with offering different stats, and builds, and not having them be useful.

You have a game that offers build variability, with no way to support them, or make them viable. Having a better aggro table would be a good start.

In other games there’s a reason to be a tank, a reason to be ranged dps, a reason to etc. Here you get none of that. I understand how it CURRENTLY works, i just would like to see some change.

Now note i never said it SHOULD be required, or any of that, so please look at my point again.

?

But the builds are viable.

You can use whatever the hell you want in terms of gear, and if your build can make the best of it, it works.

Just because it’s viable does not mean it will be the best at doing everything, or even filling a requirement for a specific game mode.

I’m not sure I understand. Of course you arent asking for enforced roles; but are you asking instead for a system rework in which it doesn’t matter (or perhaps matters less re: damage) which stats you build with, in order to make all of the gear equally optimal in every situation?

Not equally optimal either, just MORE so than they are now. There’s such a big gap that now we have the zerker meta, and there’s no reason to go anything else. Yes meta’s form, yes metas are what;s optimal, but metas can change, and exist for a reason.

More along the lines of what tbone said.