Guild Wars 2

The TP is great in GW2 in that you can buy almost anything you want. But has Anet tweaked the RNG numbers so that we’re too reliant on the TP?

Farming for items or getting good drops from “normal” play is pretty much unviable in this game, considering RNG drop rates (as an extreme example, consider the 20-slot pail from halloween). If you want something then almost always, by far the easiest way is to farm gold and buy off the TP. So that means players are conditioned to play for gold.

Basically, you get a mind numbing tedious job that earns you gold (e.g. Champ farming), spend most of your time doing that, then spend that gold during the little bit of free time you have left over.

Certainly, players do have a choice, but Anet basically entraps people into playing this way. Is this a real-life simulation game? What’s next? Guild Halls with mortgages and utility bills? Mounts where you have to get a loan from BLTC to buy?

Lord Kuru.3685:

The TP is great in GW2 in that you can buy almost anything you want. But has Anet tweaked the RNG numbers so that we’re too reliant on the TP?

Farming for items or getting good drops from “normal” play is pretty much unviable in this game, considering RNG drop rates (as an extreme example, consider the 20-slot pail from halloween). If you want something then almost always, by far the easiest way is to farm gold and buy off the TP. So that means players are conditioned to play for gold.

Basically, you get a mind numbing tedious job that earns you gold (e.g. Champ farming), spend most of your time doing that, then spend that gold during the little bit of free time you have left over.

Certainly, players do have a choice, but Anet basically entraps people into playing this way. Is this a real-life simulation game? What’s next? Guild Halls with mortgages and utility bills? Mounts where you have to get a loan from BLTC to buy?

I think they make things hard for you in game and give the gem store as a way to make it easier, idk about a rl simulation but they clearly are focused on our rl money.

I do miss guild halls:(.

Lord Kuru.3685:

The TP is great in GW2 in that you can buy almost anything you want. But has Anet tweaked the RNG numbers so that we’re too reliant on the TP?

Farming for items or getting good drops from “normal” play is pretty much unviable in this game, considering RNG drop rates (as an extreme example, consider the 20-slot pail from halloween). If you want something then almost always, by far the easiest way is to farm gold and buy off the TP. So that means players are conditioned to play for gold.

Basically, you get a mind numbing tedious job that earns you gold (e.g. Champ farming), spend most of your time doing that, then spend that gold during the little bit of free time you have left over.

Certainly, players do have a choice, but Anet basically entraps people into playing this way. Is this a real-life simulation game? What’s next? Guild Halls with mortgages and utility bills? Mounts where you have to get a loan from BLTC to buy?

The focus is certainly to drive people to the gem store, so the actual game becomes like an endless assembly line or treadmill, but if you want to spend real money you can buy your way off the line and get in to the elite crowd. Or, you can put in the time and grind that treadmill until you finally get what you want. There is a 3rd option…simply ignore the endgame content and play the game, refusing to partake of the treadmill. real life doesn’t have this option. Personally, I refuse to spend any more real money in the gem store, if for no other reason, that I feel ANet is trying to force me there. Once my remaining 900 gems are gone, that’s it.

mesme.5028:

I think they make things hard for you in game and give the gem store as a way to make it easier, idk about a rl simulation but they clearly are focused on our rl money.

I do miss guild halls:(.

Good point. But most players are not gemstore customers — their purpose (in Anet’s eyes) is to be “playing companions” to the gemstore users; and without them, you have no gemstore customers. For these players, IMO, the game is too much like a job — which in the end, is bad for Anet.

Lord Kuru.3685:

mesme.5028:

I think they make things hard for you in game and give the gem store as a way to make it easier, idk about a rl simulation but they clearly are focused on our rl money.

I do miss guild halls:(.

Good point. But most players are not gemstore customers — their purpose (in Anet’s eyes) is to be “playing companions” to the gemstore users; and without them, you have no gemstore customers. For these players, IMO, the game is too much like a job — which in the end, is bad for Anet.

I’m curious, what exactly is the aspect of the game that you enjoy doing(dungeons, fractals, world map pve, wvw, tpvp)?

Leamas.5803:

There is a 3rd option…simply ignore the endgame content and play the game, refusing to partake of the treadmill. real life doesn’t have this option.

You can play real life in the same way but you give up a lot — particularly money. And most people in real life are not willing to do this no matter how viable a life it is — and it’s the same in-game. People can refuse to partake in the treadmill, but most people just can’t (or won’t) bring themselves to do it. Thus they do it and hate it at the same time! That’s ultimately not a good thing for the game.

That human issue is one Anet can’t do anything about. However, they can do something about the root of the problem, which is the unviability of getting stuff from playing the game (or even farming mobs, which a lot of people find fun).

Izaya.2906:

Lord Kuru.3685:

mesme.5028:

I think they make things hard for you in game and give the gem store as a way to make it easier, idk about a rl simulation but they clearly are focused on our rl money.

I do miss guild halls:(.

Good point. But most players are not gemstore customers — their purpose (in Anet’s eyes) is to be “playing companions” to the gemstore users; and without them, you have no gemstore customers. For these players, IMO, the game is too much like a job — which in the end, is bad for Anet.

I’m curious, what exactly is the aspect of the game that you enjoy doing(dungeons, fractals, world map pve, wvw, tpvp)?

WvW, I solo SEp1 once a day (it’s really fun to solo and to try to beat your times), plus the occasional other dungeon — but mostly for gold for WvW.

I also enjoy farming (in small doses) as a puzzle — finding a good route and building a good build to farm those holographic nodes during Dragon Bash, for example. (The open world Wintersday gifts can be farmed similarly — in fact it’s the same nodes, but the rewards are just so bad that I can’t bring myself to do it.)

Lord Kuru.3685:

Izaya.2906:

Lord Kuru.3685:

mesme.5028:

I think they make things hard for you in game and give the gem store as a way to make it easier, idk about a rl simulation but they clearly are focused on our rl money.

I do miss guild halls:(.

Good point. But most players are not gemstore customers — their purpose (in Anet’s eyes) is to be “playing companions” to the gemstore users; and without them, you have no gemstore customers. For these players, IMO, the game is too much like a job — which in the end, is bad for Anet.

I’m curious, what exactly is the aspect of the game that you enjoy doing(dungeons, fractals, world map pve, wvw, tpvp)?

WvW, I solo SEp1 once a day (it’s really fun to solo and to try to beat your times), plus the occasional other dungeon — but mostly for gold for WvW.

I also enjoy farming (in small doses) as a puzzle — finding a good route and building a good build to farm those holographic nodes during Dragon Bash, for example. (The open world Wintersday gifts can be farmed similarly — in fact it’s the same nodes, but the rewards are just so bad that I can’t bring myself to do it.)

Ah I guess that’s the thing, WvW is really unrewarding relatively compared to PvE intentionally.

They can’t really make good drops rain in WvW else you will see EVERYONE clogging up WvW maps. Just the promise of Achievement Points and “something good” showed us how badly limited WvW is during first season u.u

I’m sure you’ll enjoy being able to get into WvW action anytime you like than sitting for hours in queue because everyone is farming there.

Lord Kuru.3685:

The TP is great in GW2 in that you can buy almost anything you want. But has Anet tweaked the RNG numbers so that we’re too reliant on the TP?

IMHO yes.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Certainly, players do have a choice, but Anet basically entraps people into playing this way. Is this a real-life simulation game? What’s next? Guild Halls with mortgages and utility bills? Mounts where you have to get a loan from BLTC to buy?

My opinion of the TP is that they want it to be a simulation of a market economy and a minigame, but then they constantly manipulate it via supply which is contradictory and as a result it doesn’t properly support the game as a TP in a theme park game should. Plus there’s the issue that the easiest way to earn gold in the game by far is via TP flipping when ingame ways to earn gold are nerfed, with the current exception of the tedious champ farming.

Izaya.2906:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Izaya.2906:

Lord Kuru.3685:

mesme.5028:

I think they make things hard for you in game and give the gem store as a way to make it easier, idk about a rl simulation but they clearly are focused on our rl money.

I do miss guild halls:(.

Good point. But most players are not gemstore customers — their purpose (in Anet’s eyes) is to be “playing companions” to the gemstore users; and without them, you have no gemstore customers. For these players, IMO, the game is too much like a job — which in the end, is bad for Anet.

I’m curious, what exactly is the aspect of the game that you enjoy doing(dungeons, fractals, world map pve, wvw, tpvp)?

WvW, I solo SEp1 once a day (it’s really fun to solo and to try to beat your times), plus the occasional other dungeon — but mostly for gold for WvW.

I also enjoy farming (in small doses) as a puzzle — finding a good route and building a good build to farm those holographic nodes during Dragon Bash, for example. (The open world Wintersday gifts can be farmed similarly — in fact it’s the same nodes, but the rewards are just so bad that I can’t bring myself to do it.)

Ah I guess that’s the thing, WvW is really unrewarding relatively compared to PvE intentionally.

They can’t really make good drops rain in WvW else you will see EVERYONE clogging up WvW maps. Just the promise of Achievement Points and “something good” showed us how badly limited WvW is during first season u.u

I’m sure you’ll enjoy being able to get into WvW action anytime you like than sitting for hours in queue because everyone is farming there.

On the contrary, I’m on NSP (T6) and we practically never have queues (reset night for very short periods of time — on the order of minutes) …. more PvE people coming in for achievements would actually be great. I’d welcome another set of WvW achievements (but not the Leagues itself)!

On topic:

As for WvW being my primary playstyle — it’s not just that. Look at the 20 slot pail for Halloween, or all the posts we see where people are asking how to farm this or that (linen’s been a popular topic recently) .. the correct answer is always to buy from the TP, and I feel that’s a problem.

Another example: the T6 mats needed for Legendaries. Yes Legendaries are supposed to be a grind, but has anyone actually crafted their Legendary through farming T6 mats instead of buying on the TP?

My take is that drops are as they are because ANet tried something new. Everyone attacking a mob has a chance at loot. That’s a lot more loot than other games throw at players. There, only the person who tags a mob gets a chance at a drop. ANet’s number crunchers were probably trying for an approach designed to avoid the item glut which would have resulted if drop chances were better. As it was, blue and green items were trivial until the Magic Find revision. Many of them were selling for +1 copper over merchant price.

As somebody who refuses to grind or farm more than an hour or two per week, I’m always feeling rather poor. I’d love it if they reduced the gold/hour discrepancies of different activities so I could do whatever I wanted while feeling equally rewarded.

Or more equally rewarded. I’m fine with harder content having better rewards. What’s weird is that the highest rewards seem to come from brainless, easy content.

Actually IMO we don’t use the trading post enough. In EVE we marketed everything because everything had value. In GW2 most items go to NPC merchants.

I was chatting with Mrs. Krait next door about this only yesterday…

Don’t they go for the customers known as “whales” i think thats the company term unsure if so, anyway they go for people who want everything off the gem store and have the cash to spend on it. Personally it does not bother me i do pay every now and again as im happy with the game it could be better but all mmos can be and supporting what you like is a thing i think you should do if you have the means.

I wouldn’t say “tweaked” insomuch as I would say that it was this way from the start.

Lord Kuru.3685:

If you want something then almost always, by far the easiest way is to farm gold and buy off the TP.

Isn’t that the case for most MMORPGs?

In real life, you can go to a store and buy food (and stuff). You don’t need to make a hydroponics or land farm, hunt, etc.

In WoW, you can go to the Auction House and buy food (and stuff). You don’t need to fish, hunt, be a chef, etc.

In RO, you can go around Prontera and buy food (and stuff.). You don’t need to hunt for ((Insert list of items here.)), etc.

In GW2, you can go onto the TP and buy food (and stuff). You don’t need to hunt for meat, be a chef, discover recipes, etc.

So… what are you trying to get at exactly?

I think it really depends on what items you want.

My main character is level 80 in a mix of exotics and ascended (only trinkets so far) and the only part of that I’ve bought from the TP is one sword (for 3g) and 6 superior runes.

When I hit 80 I had enough karma saved up to get a full set of exotics from the temples in Orr and then I used dungeon skins (and T2 human boots) to get the look I wanted. My other weapons came from dungeons or were bought with WvW badges. (Oh and by coincidence I got an exotic, soulbound, harpoon gun with exactly the stats I wanted from the end-chest in TA so I’m using that too.)

If you’re just concerned about stats you have many different options other than just waiting for a drop or buying it from the TP. You can buy it with WvW badges, dungeon tokens, karma or craft it yourself. If you want nice skins too then it really depends on which ones you like.

The problem IMO is that a lot of people don’t want all the options. They want the easiest/fastest option. And that would be either getting amazingly lucky and getting exactly what you want as a drop or buying it with gold. But to say those are the only options is a massive exaggeration.

I think I’m going to have to agree with Danikat for the most part. A lot depends on what you are after, and how much patience you have.

Yes, throwing rl money at the problem does help you shortcut it; however, I don’t really find the ‘grind’ in GW2 to be any more out of skew than other MMOs that I’ve played.

Perhaps its because we can use rl money to shorten the grind here (where we can’t in other MMOs) that it highlights the grind involved more. In other MMOs we would go about our merry way grinding our hearts out, for gold or stuff, until we achieved what we were after. Here, we have the additional option of throwing money at it if we don’t want to (or simply don’t have the time to) grind. For those that don’t have the money to throw at it, they’re more than a little miffed that they have to spend the time. Instead of making people happy, this equalizing convenience that Anet tried to provide, has instead caused strife though it’s not completely their fault. Part of the issue is also due to our conditioning and mentality when it comes to MMOs.

morrolan.9608:

My opinion of the TP is that they want it to be a simulation of a market economy and a minigame, but then they constantly manipulate it via supply which is contradictory and as a result it doesn’t properly support the game as a TP in a theme park game should. Plus there’s the issue that the easiest way to earn gold in the game by far is via TP flipping when ingame ways to earn gold are nerfed, with the current exception of the tedious champ farming.

Capitalism hhhhhhh. That urge to kill someone… ah.

I think it has both pros and cons. I do miss being able to reliably farm a specific item off certain mobs or doing a certain activity – and not feeling like making gold and using the TP would have been the most efficient way to do it. It had its flavor. At the same time, the current system allows you to slowly build a stack of anything as long as you play the game – since there are many different sources for almost everything [salvaging, loot bags, chests, laurel vendor, mystic forge…]. Since the loot is more spread out, you are more likely to buy 5 armored scales per person from 10 different players than 50 from a single one -not taking flippers into account. But you probably also have a stack of 35 slabs of red meat even though you’ve been killing nothing but dredges and pirates.

At least that’s the way I understood the OP! ^^;

Lord Kuru.3685:

The TP is great in GW2 in that you can buy almost anything you want. But has Anet tweaked the RNG numbers so that we’re too reliant on the TP?

Farming for items or getting good drops from “normal” play is pretty much unviable in this game, considering RNG drop rates (as an extreme example, consider the 20-slot pail from halloween). If you want something then almost always, by far the easiest way is to farm gold and buy off the TP. So that means players are conditioned to play for gold.

Basically, you get a mind numbing tedious job that earns you gold (e.g. Champ farming), spend most of your time doing that, then spend that gold during the little bit of free time you have left over.

Certainly, players do have a choice, but Anet basically entraps people into playing this way. Is this a real-life simulation game? What’s next? Guild Halls with mortgages and utility bills? Mounts where you have to get a loan from BLTC to buy?

This is the exact problem Diablo III had and they removed both auction houses entirely from the game so people could get what they wanted from gameplay. It meant removing some of the restrictions on RNG as well but overall I think players are much much happier. They lost about 60% of their players early on because they kept trying to restrict the drops they even lowered even lower than most titles the drop rates of what we’d consider Exotics on this title (before ascended came along) and people got fed up and left.

Hopefully the devs here will do the same, it would go a long way to bringing the casuals back to the game I’m sure.