Guild Wars 2

Thats because their own vision isn’t something that is what MMO players want. Part of the reason that we play these stupid things is that there is always some sort of next plateau to keep logging in to get to. Whether it be higher tiers of dungeon or PVP or whatever you need more powerful gear to get there. This is a tried and true principle in this industry and for them to simply ignore it I think they can see that in 6 months people will have done what they are going to do and if they don’t find PVP is their thing they have essentially finished a bit of a longer version of Skyrim and are going to find other things to do…

Hunterdan.4921:

TL;DR – This is not about adding vertical progression. It’s about balancing the gap (Of difficulty in obtaining) between exotic and legendary gear. As far as the stat increase…I have no idea. So you’ll want it more?

this is absolutely about adding vertical progression
if this is about balancing the gap in difficulty of obtaining exotics and legendaries — that means ascended will be harder than exotic to acquire, which means, yes, gear treadmill.

The stat increase, yes, gear treadmill. They added it because there’s some people who just can’t play a game without endlessly increasing their numbers relative to their old numbers. Exotics were supposed to be it, the cap, the top-end — and legendaries were equal to that, but looked awesome.

If all they wanted to address was the gap in the time needed between exotic and legendary, they could have done it without a new tier. Add hard to find exotics that look slightly cooler (OH, WAIT, THAT ALREADY IS A THING), add legendaries that look less cool but are easier to get.

This? This is just them trying to reshape their game into a WoW clone.

Thats because their own vision isn’t something that is what MMO players want. Part of the reason that we play these stupid things is that there is always some sort of next plateau to keep logging in to get to.

LMAO really, really. No. You didn’t do any checking on this game before you spent money on it did you? Just saw “MMO” and thought “I liked WoW!” and bought it?

No, many of us bought this game BECAUSE OF their vision, that there was not going to be endless gear progression.

I’ve got enough kitten in my life that’s never-ending and always unfinished. I don’t need some kittened game doing the same thing.

Screw it, maybe I’ll just go steal my NES back and beat Battletoads again

Reaver.9256:

They’ve already lost a lot from not having enough to do. How many posts have been on these forums of people complaining about lack of players? I know a lot of my friends/guildies quit because they already accomplished everything to do. Most people don’t care if there weapon has a pretty unicorn on it or not. Most people I know want better/cooler items to work for.

Then this game, according to what they said it was designed for, is not for those people. The initial “WoW” crowd has moved on as they do with EVERY new MMO that launches. Its nothing new. Now should ANet keep in the direction that this latest blog post sujests they will be commiting seppuku. Retaining the original core of GW1 would pay off better in the long run than trying to entice the “WoW” crowd to come back, and in doing so drive away that original core of people. Because honestly you will lose WAY more than you gain.

They changed things during the Halloween event with much less push back. The thread was not half the size of the current one. The forum population represents a fraction of the playing population, but its also typically accurate to what people want.

I don’t think they will stop with the next patch, but I do believe they will rethink what they are doing down the road in relation to this type of progression.

Hunterdan.4921:

TL;DR – This is not about adding vertical progression. It’s about balancing the gap (Of difficulty in obtaining) between exotic and legendary gear. As far as the stat increase…I have no idea. So you’ll want it more?

So they’re going to balance the effort gap by adding a statistical gap and that’s not vertical progression because…? You don’t fix one gap by adding another.

warmonkey.8013:

Hunterdan.4921:

TL;DR – This is not about adding vertical progression. It’s about balancing the gap (Of difficulty in obtaining) between exotic and legendary gear. As far as the stat increase…I have no idea. So you’ll want it more?

this is absolutely about adding vertical progression
if this is about balancing the gap in difficulty of obtaining exotics and legendaries — that means ascended will be harder than exotic to acquire, which means, yes, gear treadmill.

The stat increase, yes, gear treadmill. They added it because there’s some people who just can’t play a game without endlessly increasing their numbers relative to their old numbers. Exotics were supposed to be it, the cap, the top-end — and legendaries were equal to that, but looked awesome.

If all they wanted to address was the gap in the time needed between exotic and legendary, they could have done it without a new tier. Add hard to find exotics that look slightly cooler (OH, WAIT, THAT ALREADY IS A THING), add legendaries that look less cool but are easier to get.

This? This is just them trying to reshape their game into a WoW clone.

Since we’re both basing this on speculation, I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I do not feel that adding a single new tier to fill the gap between exotic and legendary constitutes as a gear treadmill. Nor do I feel that this is a “sign for the future of constant new gear additions! omg treadmill!”

I personally still subscribe to the idea that it’s possible that a few of the 200 new recipes coming along with this update could be related to crafted upgrade slot items that could very well balance exotics against ascended (ascended being more useful for their infusion / dungeon needs) items. But hey, I’m only guessing.

Making wild claims that this is the beginning of the end with the WoW conversion coming is rather over the top, though. And awfully cynical might I add.

camoflaugz.5031:

Not trying to make it different in anyway.. This is an MMO, its part of the genre and its a basic function that MMO’s do. Im not even thinking of wow or any other game.. Im thinking MMO thats it.. It already has its unique functions such as no set roles. That alone already sets it apart from others but trying to eliminate basic MMO functions is fail.

“it’s part of the genre and its a basic function that MMO’s do.” Based on what? WoW? Oh wait, you say it’s not based on WoW… okay, then… your own personal ideal of what the MMO genre is?

The fact is, the lack of gear grind was a selling point of the game. The Devs made interviews and videos about it- it’s been quoted dozens of times on multiple posts. What’s fail is players bringing preconceptualized ideas from other MMOs and trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Hunterdan.4921:

TL;DR – This is not about adding vertical progression. It’s about balancing the gap (Of difficulty in obtaining) between exotic and legendary gear. As far as the stat increase…I have no idea. So you’ll want it more?

So they’re going to balance the effort gap by adding a statistical gap and that’s not vertical progression because…? You don’t fix one gap by adding another.

Certainly not. You fix the gap by either making one side more difficult to obtain, the other easier to obtain, or adding something in the middle. They seem to be going with the latter. But again, we’re only speculating until we actually get to check it out.

Hawkmoon.5849:

“it’s part of the genre and its a basic function that MMO’s do.” Based on what? WoW? Oh wait, you say it’s not based on WoW… okay, then… your own personal ideal of what the MMO genre is?

The fact is, the lack of gear grind was a selling point of the game. The Devs made interviews and videos about it- it’s been quoted dozens of times on multiple posts. What’s fail is players bringing preconceptualized ideas from other MMOs and trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

This is a huge problem for this genre. Too many people were introduced to MMOs with WoW so their ideal vision for MMOs is WoW. So they want all MMOs to be like WoW.

Hunterdan.4921:

Certainly not. You fix the gap by either making one side more difficult to obtain, the other easier to obtain, or adding something in the middle. They seem to be going with the latter. But again, we’re only speculating until we actually get to check it out.

But ascended is equal to legendary statistically speaking. And that’s after ArenaNet boosts legendary up just for the sake of creating this gear gap which didn’t exist before. If this isn’t vertical progression what is it?

Vocal minority? Hmmm… Could it be that the vocal minority might actually care for the future of a game in voicing their concerns when their game starts to contradict their initial promises?

A certain game developer who shall not be named made a certain game in a galaxy far far away that shall not be named. They lost about half a million players in under six months because they were too arrogant to listen to the concerns of those designated as ‘the vocal minority’.

Personally I hope it won’t be as bad as rumors make it out to be though; but I thought I’d mention this

The irony is that anyone claiming there is a “vocal minority” in a forum like this IS part of a that vocal minority pretending to represent the “silent majority.”

You are incorrect. Statistically people are less inclined to voice their opinions on something positive than they are to complain when they disagree. It’s the ‘Amazon Rule’. How many times have you bought something on Amazon and went and praised it? Now compare to the number of times you went and complained and gave it 2 stars.

This forum is filled with the latter, people demanding this and that like they’re entitled to it and when they don’t get it, throwing ‘threats’ around and commanding ANet like they were their children.

Ultimately I find it amusing, because all this whining is just solidfying ANet’s decision to cater to the % of people who are willing to put in the work for better gear and not simply demand it because they paid for the game.

lol, they aren’t going to pick up wow players. Those people are too busy with MOP and gearing for raids, if they haven’t finished doing that already. A friend of mine is waiting for her next paycheck so she can renew her subscription. :p

Even if Anet revamped their game and made it another boring wow-clone it wouldn’t draw wow players because it isn’t wow. End of story. None of the other so called wow-killers have been successful by doing this.

Hunterdan.4921:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Hunterdan.4921:

TL;DR – This is not about adding vertical progression. It’s about balancing the gap (Of difficulty in obtaining) between exotic and legendary gear. As far as the stat increase…I have no idea. So you’ll want it more?

So they’re going to balance the effort gap by adding a statistical gap and that’s not vertical progression because…? You don’t fix one gap by adding another.

Certainly not. You fix the gap by either making one side more difficult to obtain, the other easier to obtain, or adding something in the middle. They seem to be going with the latter. But again, we’re only speculating until we actually get to check it out.

they are not going with the latter. if they were, ascended would have stats no better than exotic, but would look cooler.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Hunterdan.4921:

Certainly not. You fix the gap by either making one side more difficult to obtain, the other easier to obtain, or adding something in the middle. They seem to be going with the latter. But again, we’re only speculating until we actually get to check it out.

But ascended is equal to legendary statistically speaking. And that’s after ArenaNet boosts legendary up just for the sake of creating this gear gap which didn’t exist before. If this isn’t vertical progression what is it?

Would it make more sense of them to keep Legendary weapons stats the same as exotic? Maybe so. Since I believe the idea was to transmute your legendary skin onto your choice exotic gear anyway. But now, there may not be a reason to do that anymore, or is there?

I’m just posing questions. Share your thoughts.

With the addition of ascended gear that holds higher stats than exotic + upgrade slot gear…they effectively render exotic gear, along with the upgrades, useless. Meaning that all that runes and sigils crafters make and sell are worthless. Also meaning that numerous areas of crafting are even more useless. Would they really do this? With the addition of the new harvested resource, and 200 new recipes, I see a few possibilities.

A. The addition of new craftable upgrades that render exotics on par with, or better than ascended gear while outside of the ascended gear’s specific or general purpose.

B. Crafting professions can now make infusion slot upgrades that can entirely take the place of runes and sigils, again, rendering exotic gear and the upgrade mechanic that followed loot all the way to the exotic tier, useless.

C. We can all just craft 200 new funny hats!

I’ve no idea. I tended to lean towards the A option myself. But I’m not so sure at this point. To me, a gear treadmill is the main design focus of a game such as World of Warcraft. You’re constantly working towards new gear, which is continually added. Gear you absolutely need to progress, or experience content. Something Anet has been against from the beginning, as so many of you have pointed out. As of now, I just don’t see a single tier of new loot, mostly designed around running a dungeon that contains rather small stat increases (We’ll see on the rest of the pieces) as a treadmill. It has been stated that it is not their intention to add new loot every 3 months. (Does that mean they’ll do it every 6?) I can still run the dungeon without it. I can still kill people in wvw who have it. I can also obtain this loot by numerous means.

In the end, we do not yet know the full intent. Which I personally wish they would share. They’ve stated that this is just one step in the long line of steps to come. Will those steps lead to a continual vertical progression? I have no idea. But I am rather skeptical of the suggestion at the moment. Maybe I’m just a trustworthy fool. But I’d just rather not jump to conclusions until I see for myself.

warmonkey.8013:

Hunterdan.4921:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Hunterdan.4921:

TL;DR – This is not about adding vertical progression. It’s about balancing the gap (Of difficulty in obtaining) between exotic and legendary gear. As far as the stat increase…I have no idea. So you’ll want it more?

So they’re going to balance the effort gap by adding a statistical gap and that’s not vertical progression because…? You don’t fix one gap by adding another.

Certainly not. You fix the gap by either making one side more difficult to obtain, the other easier to obtain, or adding something in the middle. They seem to be going with the latter. But again, we’re only speculating until we actually get to check it out.

they are not going with the latter. if they were, ascended would have stats no better than exotic, but would look cooler.

I can agree with that notion. The stat bump is a mystery to me at this point.

Considering the constant whining that took place on this forum prior to the announcement of Ascended gear that there was “nothing to do” because they were already maxed out, I think that what ArenaNet is doing can be exactly described as ‘Caving in to the vocal minority’.

There’s probably close to ten times the amount of complaining coming from people who don’t want stronger equipment, now that they’ve announced it’s coming, than there ever was from people who do want stronger equipment when, there was no indication there would ever be any.

So if ArenaNet removing the Ascended gear treadmill is catering to a ‘vocal minority’, what does that make adding the gear treadmill to begin with? Catering to a ‘vocal superminority’?

most the “nothing to do” threads were overwhelmed with people posting that they were enjoying the game and that the OP’s statement was nothing more than “I don’t have a gear treadmill”.

so even in those threads, the gear-treadmill faction was a minority. the rest of us were usually too busy playing to bother.

now we’re not playing, we’re here. posting. angry.

not playing, though.

I guess a new term will need to be invented if you ever want to release an MMO that isn’t a WoW knockoff, or all the kiddos who want their gear ladders will cry and cry and cry until they get their way (and then quit and go back to WoW anyway)

ArcTheFallen.7682:

krookie.6378:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Fungalfoot.7213:

They already did cave in to the vocal minority by introducing this form of progression.

We’re just asking for them to rethink the decision. This isn’t WoW and it really shouldn’t be.

Hm, this isn’t Gw1 either. Neutral party here though.

No it’s not GW1 but it was advertised to follow a similar philosophy when it comes to gear.

Right. Totally agree, but it’s still not good to compare it to a game that’s completely irrelevant. This is a new game. Not an expansion. Refer to the promise not another game.

They already broke the promise.

Hmm 2.5 million people bought the game….

~7000 posts complaining about the new system.

~3000 are people defending the new system

~2 posts per user in the thread

= ~2000 people actually complaining about the new system

= ~0.1% of the players

Yeah i’m gunna go ahead and say that is a minority. When you get 500,000 posts from individual users that this is a bad system then you might have something credible. Most people just don’t care enough to come to the forums because it isn’t a big deal to them, they are having fun in the game or they already left.

I spent all my time getting all the armor and runes I could want so I could always match my play style. I now have 5 exotic sets of armor and 2 different set of weapons for my necro now. I kinda do want the axe legendary weapon since it kinda fits my necro looks most times right now but mostly I have been getting all my gear with stats I wanted to match my play style of the day so I dont get bored of just auto attack on my specter .

Now i am working on trying to make them look different from every other necro. I loved that there was no gear grind or power creep, one the major things I loved from Gw1 and this game. I do not want all my time to be wasted on this because some small amount of players cant live without seeing a small increase to the armor stats every few months.

Also most players on MMO’s do not go to forum pages, could never explain why but really alot MMO players do not do it. They might check the forum on the guild website if a guild has one, but seldom do they check the developer forum pages and or class forum’s.

Most people won’t even bother to go here and complain – they’ll just silently quit.

Hmm 2.5 million people bought the game….

~0.5 million people got a refund.

~1.5 million people stopped playing after the first month because the game is broke

~ 0.5 million people still play semi-actively

~ Unknown percentage of people in the forums talking about the game, yet the reception is negative.

Like I said before. If this is the last tier of gear they plan on implementing and they add a way to earn it thru wvw then go ahead (both mentioned in Chris’ post). Exotics where to easy to get anyways and it wouldn’t hurt to work a bit for good gear.

But if after the full set of ascended is out if they feel the need to cave to the treadmill and start adding yet another tier of gear then I will go find a game that lets me just play. That’s why I came here to begin with.

Satans Chosen.1024:

That would be like suggesting all the players opposed to flying mounts are a minority.

I very much WANT flying mounts. So which of us is the minority? Got any proof?

The number of people that post in these forums is a small percentage of the total that play the game. If the opinions expressed by those posting in the forum represent the majority of players is unknown.

And I completely support the new Gear Tier.

Patches always come with bugs, ALWAYS, I’d prefer that they reduced the number of EXISTENT bugs in game atm before adding more bugs to it.

Instead of spending most of theyre time designing new pices of clothing they should be fixing the kitten bugs… this is not the “Project Runway”

So will this be one of the few games where not the MMO locusts, but the actual playerbase leaves, due to said locusts?

krookie.6378:

This is a huge problem for this genre. Too many people were introduced to MMOs with WoW so their ideal vision for MMOs is WoW. So they want all MMOs to be like WoW.

I started in on playing muds back in the early 90’s and even ended up writing code for Smaug mud in the late 90’s(google Dracones and smaugmud). The constant striving for better gear was a big part of those games.

The concept made its ways into MMO’s via Everquest which was based heavily on Diku mud concepts. So no, it’s not a WoW thing.

Amra.6028:

So will this be one of the few games where not the MMO locusts, but the actual playerbase leaves, due to said locusts?

Few? It happens with just about every MMO. Loyal player base supports, does free marketing and draws more and more people in. Game grows immensely successful and the developer starts glancing at all the dough Blizzard is raking in. In their hubris they decide they want that dough and attempts to out Blizzard… well, Blizzard. Obviously this doesn’t pan out and the game ends up dead due to abandoning the very principles which made it great and unique in a futile effort to ape the more popular MMO.

OP is assuming people don’t want progression and new gear. That’s not the point. The point is they could be offering the exact same thing minus the stat increases, and gear requirements to progress dungeons.

Ryan.6951:

OP is vocal minority.

Stick to what you said for years in blog posts, AMAs, manifesto videos, interviews, at the gamescoms.

Gear grind is lazy bad game design and it ruins fun.

People like the OP that burn trough what they perceive as content then demand more have always been the minority in MMOs.
So yes ANET do not cave into their never ending demands.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

BBilbo.9641:

This really isn’t about who’s the “vocal minority.” And it’s not about weather or not the new gear is legitimately more powerful or only slightly.

That’s really not the big picture, here.

This is about the basic gameplay standards and promises made by Anet, in the Guild Wars 2 Manifesto, AMAs, and press releases during development.

Arenanet. Don’t after-the-fact change the product that we already paid for.

Casual players…sad to say do not generate as much revenue has hardcore player/competitive players.

Do they? From my experience in F2P MMOs I would say hardcore gamers contribute nearly nothing themselves to a revenue. What they normaly do, is generating ingame-cash like gold, they are selling for shop-currency. So they are only set as a rolemodel for the greed competition to make “causals” or “midcore-gamers” spend RL-money to catch up.

Dracones.9105:

krookie.6378:

This is a huge problem for this genre. Too many people were introduced to MMOs with WoW so their ideal vision for MMOs is WoW. So they want all MMOs to be like WoW.

I started in on playing muds back in the early 90’s and even ended up writing code for Smaug mud in the late 90’s(google Dracones and smaugmud). The constant striving for better gear was a big part of those games.

The concept made its ways into MMO’s via Everquest which was based heavily on Diku mud concepts. So no, it’s not a WoW thing.

It’s mostly true with Diku line, but it wasn’t the only MUD model out there. And even in Sojourn (the mud that Everquest was mostly based on) eq treadmill was considered to be a huge problem, with several attempts being made to eliminate it.

Malediktus.9250:

Please go ahead and keep adding more item and character progression. Its a very good way to keep pve interesting for a long time. New skins are good, but what if you dont like the new skins or like the one you have more? After all visuals are personal preference.

… and character progression …

What.

Gear = character progression??

: – |

Well atleast the forums are education with people finding definitions of certain words and phrases.

Ontopic, i agree with OP.

Focksbot.6798:

Malediktus.9250:

Please go ahead and keep adding more item and character progression. Its a very good way to keep pve interesting for a long time. New skins are good, but what if you dont like the new skins or like the one you have more? After all visuals are personal preference.

… and character progression …

What.

Gear = character progression??

: – |

what you mean? Gear is part of character progression.

If anyone thinks this is going to bring in and hold the WoW crowd’s attention, you must not have played WoW. I did, for quite awhile. I grew tired of chasing the gear and played only alts until that too grew stale.

The people who still play WoW are going to continue to play WoW. They obviously enjoy the gear treadmill. Since they enjoy the treadmill, why would they jump off the one they are on for a different one? Gold is easy to make in WoW, especially for long time players. Crafting nets you more gold in WoW. Can’t say the same of GW2. The WoW players have years invested in their characters…this means achievements, titles, mounts, pets, etc. They are not going to switch! My son still plays WoW. He isn’t remotely interested in GW2. I have friends who still play WoW who I couldn’t pry off their Pink Uber Sparkly Drake of Happiness with a crowbar.

Introducing a gear grind to GW2 might bring in a few people who are in between mmo’s for a short amount of time but it is not going to hold the core players here who would spend the money in cash shop and buy additional box expansions. It certainly isn’t going to pull in the current WoW crowd.

i have 280 inactive accounts in my guild, and that is after purging many times till i gave up. the fall off of active players after people get a toon to 80 is larger then any MMO i have ever seen. if Anet can not get more players into this game it will fail and become a small niche low server game like GW1 is. sorry but Rift as a WOW clone is racking in the cash and can make more with a 1/10th the players then GW2 can. As a business Trion is kicking Anets Butt , even though i think Guild Wars 2 has greater potential .
you say go back to WOW if you like this type of MMO?! have you seen the new Panda expansion its so so bad even WOW fan boys are starting to walk away. my guild is in WOW, Rift ,LOL and Guild Wars 2 and there has been a big shift away from WOW. the question is does Rift take the crown as top MMO or does Guild Wars 2?

That’s funny, it’s always seemed to me that the progression supporters are just WoW players who don’t know what they’re doing if someone doesn’t show them a big number to gallop after. The vocal minority. That’s the problem. The game is being diminished to cater to the vocal minority of progression obsessed players. You are the problem. Not the actual players.

Only Anet really knows how many accounts have reached or are close to reaching “end game”. I guess they must figure that it is a high number. Pretty sure this isnt just somethung that was thrown together in a couple weeks and was planned all along. I played much more than I had intended as I always do and have not even run each of the dungeons and have about 50% of the map. If Id played like Id intended like my wife has btw just weekends I would not even know or care about this new gear tier. I wonder how many accounts that are still played once a week have not hit 80 yet?

Malediktus.9250:

Please go ahead and keep adding more item and character progression. Its a very good way to keep pve interesting for a long time. New skins are good, but what if you dont like the new skins or like the one you have more? After all visuals are personal preference.

You believe that in a game designed around the idea of not having a gear treadmill, the people who want a gear treadmill are the majority?

If this were the WoW forums you may have a point, but in this game?

People say a lot have already quit for lack of things to do. Why are all the servers full at most times then?

Zen.1740:

Hmm 2.5 million people bought the game….

~0.5 million people got a refund.

~1.5 million people stopped playing after the first month because the game is broke

~ 0.5 million people still play semi-actively

~ Unknown percentage of people in the forums talking about the game, yet the reception is negative.

Source please

If you disagree so much with the coming changes…then just don’t do it. Don’t include it in your gameplay.

I don’t really get why there is this uproar.

There’s this really weird cognitive phenomenon where the people with the strongest convictions always believe that the other side is a vocal minority. This probably happens because it’s so easy—and so tempting—to believe that more people have to be on your side, because your side makes the most sense.

I really wish people would stop splitting our own community into false dichotomies: Vocal Minorities vs. Silent Majorities, Casuals vs Hardcore, Fanboys vs. Critical People, WoW Kiddies vs. Everyone Else.

The level of discourse in MMO communities would be better served if we quit trying to package every complex issue and the range of nuanced opinions that constitute them into a neat little bifurcation of People Like Myself vs. Everyone Else.

Pirlipat.2479:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

BBilbo.9641:

This really isn’t about who’s the “vocal minority.” And it’s not about weather or not the new gear is legitimately more powerful or only slightly.

That’s really not the big picture, here.

This is about the basic gameplay standards and promises made by Anet, in the Guild Wars 2 Manifesto, AMAs, and press releases during development.

Arenanet. Don’t after-the-fact change the product that we already paid for.

Casual players…sad to say do not generate as much revenue has hardcore player/competitive players.

Do they? From my experience in F2P MMOs I would say hardcore gamers contribute nearly nothing themselves to a revenue. What they normaly do, is generating ingame-cash like gold, they are selling for shop-currency. So they are only set as a rolemodel for the greed competition to make “causals” or “midcore-gamers” spend RL-money to catch up.

I’d have to agree here. Casual players tend to have more cash than time due to, generally, working for a living.

Most hardcore gamers I’ve ever known almost make it an ideology to never, ever spend an rl dime in any game.

Eveningstar.6940:

There’s this really weird cognitive phenomenon where the people with the strongest convictions always believe that the other side is a vocal minority. This probably happens because it’s so easy—and so tempting—to believe that more people have to be on your side, because your side makes the most sense.

I really wish people would stop splitting our own community into false dichotomies: Vocal Minorities vs. Silent Majorities, Casuals vs Hardcore, Fanboys vs. Critical People, WoW Kiddies vs. Everyone Else.

The level of discourse in MMO communities would be better served if we quit trying to package every complex issue and the range of nuanced opinions that constitute them into a neat little bifurcation of People Like Myself vs. Everyone Else.

From a forum standpoint though….the real majority doesn’t give fat rats patootie about anything talked about in the forums. Forumites are really the minority. And why ANet would pay attention to anything posted here is beyond me.

Its not even a good sampling. If they want to find out what the real majority wants…start running in game polls via the mail system.

Raf.1078:

If you disagree so much with the coming changes…then just don’t do it. Don’t include it in your gameplay.

I don’t really get why there is this uproar.

Let me show you how much sense this makes.

Lets say we were talking about aimbots:

“If you don’t like it, don’t use them”

Bots (for gold farming):

“If you don’t like them, don’t use them”

The statistically best gear:

“if you don’t like them, don’t use them”

_ _

Has anyone worked out what these subjects have in common?

They all affect us whether we personally use them or not.

If the person I am fighting has higher stats, that affects me. If the mobs in the new content have higher stats because they are balanced around the top tier of gear, that affects me. And aimbotters and bots affect me in more obvious ways (combat advantage, completely altering the economy, etc).

I find it quite ironic whenever someone clueless posts “don’t cave to the vocal minority” in this subject. Are you aware of the two simple facts that:

-the game you bought was developed for half a decade, marketed and sold as one that will defy the so called holy mechanics of other MMOs, including holy trinity and vertical gear progression?

-the vertical progression was added because ANet already caved in to the “vocal minority” that requested vertical gear progression in the first place?
There was plenty of character progression in this game, just not vertical

Malediktus.9250:

Focksbot.6798:

Malediktus.9250:

Please go ahead and keep adding more item and character progression. Its a very good way to keep pve interesting for a long time. New skins are good, but what if you dont like the new skins or like the one you have more? After all visuals are personal preference.

… and character progression …

What.

Gear = character progression??

: – |

what you mean? Gear is part of character progression.

So the brand you wear defines you?