Guild Wars 2

ProxyDamage.9826:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Some of the best dungeon players in the game only use double tap, they dont even have a dodge key bound. The only person who I know of, that has solo’d Lupicus on every profession uses only double tap.

Since, according to your post bellow, this was directed at me: That only means they would be even better players if they didn’t.

Again, the training wheels dilemma. Maybe someone is really, really, good at riding a bike with training wheels on. They’re still gimping themselves and their performance will only improve once they take them off.

There is no room for discussion on this one. You can be more comfortable with it, and maybe you can even be good enough , but it’s an objective and demonstrable fact that double tap is just bad for your performance.

Also: Source please.

Dub (if you visit the dungeon sub-forum at all, you’ll see him around). He also clicks his skills. Just because someone has an arguably inferior style of playing, does not make them a bad player, which is what your first post implied.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SylarsCreed/

I think you need to get off your imaginary high horse. His youtube channel will show a couple videos of various Lupi solos, he had more videos but I guess he unlisted them.

Algreg.3629:

First of all, as funny as you think your analogy is, it is just way off the same. According to you dodging is faster = easier with a single key, doubletapping is unnecessarily slower. So, no, it is not a training wheel, but I can see how that makes you snicker in your own grandeur, so just keep on using it.

Snide remarks overcompensating your own inferiority complex aside, the analogy is correct, you just don’t understand it. It’s easier for someone who never rode a bike, or never did so without training wheels, to use them. It’s more comfortable. More “intuitive”. Much like double tapping. However, once you learn to ride a bike without them they become nothing but a hindrance holding you back.

Algreg.3629:

So, if that assumption of yours is that objective and demonstrable, care to share some of your valuable research data with everyone? No anecdotes, no “every good player I know…”, numbers, reaction times, recordings and sources. Well? Yeah, thought so…

I’m lacking a scientific article with exact numbers that can be generalized to a large population I’m afraid. If you’d like to provide the appropriate material to do the testing I’d love to do it. Would be quite amusing. Provide the funding and I’ll give you an actual scientific article on the subject.

So I can’t tell you exactly how much faster it generally is, sadly. But it is easily demonstrable that it is faster.

*Here’s an experiment you can do on your own: Go here – It’s an online stopwatch, you can find your own if you don’t like the look of the link, so long as it works with the keyboard.

*Double tap the space bar as you normally would.

Congratulations, that’s the time you’re usually losing with double tapping.

Simply put, if we’re both moving, and we both wanna dodge, you need to tap the direction you want twice. I just hit 1 key while moving.

And now you’re going to say “But Proxy, what if you’re moving in one direction and need to dodge in another? You still need to press 2 buttons!”.

That’s true, except my two button presses can be done concurrently. I can press dodge and the direction I want at the same time. You can’t double tap the same key at the same time, resulting in the aforementioned extra delay.

Now consider additional situations, for example, if you’re running forward and want to dodge forward:

• I simply press a key. Smooth. Fast. Efficient.
• You need to tap the forward key twice. Even assuming you’re incredibly fast at double tapping, you’re going to stop walking forward temporarily. You’re going to give yourself a small “hiccup”, costing you performance.

And then you need to consider input overlap: Your dodge key is overlapped with your movement. If, for any reason, you need quickly adjust your movement twice in the same direction you’re going to force a roll. This is undesirable, not only because it forces extra, rather significant, movement you didn’t want, but because it wastes a valuable resource – stamina. Someone without double tap will never need to concern themselves with that. They can adjust their movement as often as the situation demands without accidental dodges.

No matter how you cut it, using a dodge key instead of double tap is an objective straight up upgrade.

The kid that always used training wheels can tell you that they don’t need to take them off. That they ride their bike well enough like that, and that may be true depending on what you define “enough” to be. But once you learn to ride without them… You realize how sluggish you were, and you can never go back.

Proxy, who freakin cares?

Some people keyboard turn and click their skills. Some people don’t rebind keys and have to reach all the was across the keyboard to do their elite skill. Some people have it all on their sweet super pro gaming mouse.

You act like this stuff matters.

Banono.4597:

Proxy, who freakin cares?

I answered that in the very first post I made in this thread.

Redfeather.6401:

I tried double-tap at first, but it didn’t suit how I wanted to play.
Here is my setup.

i use these two for closest/farthest enemy, makes targeting much easier in a game with such a poor click to attack system that doesn’t register your clicks half the time

After double tapping off cliffs, I turned it off. I only use “v” now.

Vayne.8563:

Doggie.3184:

People who double tap dodge are the kinda baddies who QQ constantly about Thieves killing them and are horrible at Jumping Puzzles.

My dodge is on Ctrl.

Totally untrue. I use thieves to wipe my shoes on, after I’m done filleting them.

Totally untrue if you use double tap. You’re probably just running into double tap to dodge Thieves, clickers or keyboard turners.

I do it since thats where my hand rests while playing and I feel it gives more control.
HOWEVER it does like to bug out and dodge random directions sometimes the worse is when you’re walking and press W+Q at like the same millisecond and you phantom dodge off something lol.

ProxyDamage.9826:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Some of the best dungeon players in the game only use double tap, they dont even have a dodge key bound. The only person who I know of, that has solo’d Lupicus on every profession uses only double tap.

Since, according to your post bellow, this was directed at me: That only means they would be even better players if they didn’t.

Again, the training wheels dilemma. Maybe someone is really, really, good at riding a bike with training wheels on. They’re still gimping themselves and their performance will only improve once they take them off.

There is no room for discussion on this one. You can be more comfortable with it, and maybe you can even be good enough , but it’s an objective and demonstrable fact that double tap is just bad for your performance.

Also: Source please.

Source here, although i’m still missing a full necro solo. Got him to 20% but started struggling out of boredom. Don’t try solo’ing a boss with 1.456.800 HP with your necro on a vitality mainstat equip.

This game gives you enough time to react with a doubletap everywhere. IYou can even dodge the quickest animations (rapidfire/fiery whirl from ascalon captain ashym after one tick blocked with aegis and some few others) in PvE and gives you even more time in PvP. A 0.25 second reaction window is more than enough to doubletap.
Also, double tap has it’s strengths. No need to use an additional button so you won’t get problems dodging and activating utilitys at the same. And the biggest plus for doubletapping is actually dodging into whatever direction you feel like without moving any bit in there before.

Sure, there are better players than me, some using doubletap and sone using hotkeys.
But personally i’m sure i won’t do any better using a hotkey. I did it for two weeks or so but quickly came back to doubletap.

ProxyDamage.9826:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Some of the best dungeon players in the game only use double tap, they dont even have a dodge key bound. The only person who I know of, that has solo’d Lupicus on every profession uses only double tap.

Since, according to your post bellow, this was directed at me: That only means they would be even better players if they didn’t.

Again, the training wheels dilemma. Maybe someone is really, really, good at riding a bike with training wheels on. They’re still gimping themselves and their performance will only improve once they take them off.

There is no room for discussion on this one. You can be more comfortable with it, and maybe you can even be good enough , but it’s an objective and demonstrable fact that double tap is just bad for your performance.

Also: Source please.

Training wheels indeed.

In order to dodge correctly, in the first place, you need to know where you are and where your opponent is…and you don’t.

No matter how fast your connection no matter how low your ping, there is a difference between where things on on the main server and where they show on your screen. It’s never 100% accurate.

The more latency/lag you have due to either internet providers or location, the more likely it is you’re seeing something that doesn’t exist anymore. This whole I can press one key faster than two making any difference at all is mostly influenced by people with the absolutely lowest pings.

It’s no less efficient to use it with a higher ping because it all comes down to random chance anyway. It’s not a matter of skill at whether you dodge at that point, but it’s a matter of luck. The absolutely split second you’re calling training wheels changes nothing for most of the game’s population.

After 5 minutes of playing I turned it off. It is slower and finicky to use.

It really does depend on just how beautiful she is.

I used to. I got kitten ed off too much when I fell at the midpoint or end of hard jump puzzles.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

ProxyDamage.9826:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Some of the best dungeon players in the game only use double tap, they dont even have a dodge key bound. The only person who I know of, that has solo’d Lupicus on every profession uses only double tap.

Since, according to your post bellow, this was directed at me: That only means they would be even better players if they didn’t.

Again, the training wheels dilemma. Maybe someone is really, really, good at riding a bike with training wheels on. They’re still gimping themselves and their performance will only improve once they take them off.

There is no room for discussion on this one. You can be more comfortable with it, and maybe you can even be good enough , but it’s an objective and demonstrable fact that double tap is just bad for your performance.

Also: Source please.

Dub (if you visit the dungeon sub-forum at all, you’ll see him around). He also clicks his skills. Just because someone has an arguably inferior style of playing, does not make them a bad player, which is what your first post implied.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SylarsCreed/

I think you need to get off your imaginary high horse. His youtube channel will show a couple videos of various Lupi solos, he had more videos but I guess he unlisted them.

No wonder he blames lag so often. It definitely must feel like that with double-tapping.

Bunch of slackjawed double-tappers around here.
Dodge key will make you a goddman sexual Tyrannosaurus!
Just like me.

Wethospu.6437:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

ProxyDamage.9826:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Some of the best dungeon players in the game only use double tap, they dont even have a dodge key bound. The only person who I know of, that has solo’d Lupicus on every profession uses only double tap.

Since, according to your post bellow, this was directed at me: That only means they would be even better players if they didn’t.

Again, the training wheels dilemma. Maybe someone is really, really, good at riding a bike with training wheels on. They’re still gimping themselves and their performance will only improve once they take them off.

There is no room for discussion on this one. You can be more comfortable with it, and maybe you can even be good enough , but it’s an objective and demonstrable fact that double tap is just bad for your performance.

Also: Source please.

Dub (if you visit the dungeon sub-forum at all, you’ll see him around). He also clicks his skills. Just because someone has an arguably inferior style of playing, does not make them a bad player, which is what your first post implied.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SylarsCreed/

I think you need to get off your imaginary high horse. His youtube channel will show a couple videos of various Lupi solos, he had more videos but I guess he unlisted them.

No wonder he blames lag so often. It definitely must feel like that with double-tapping.

Indeed doubletapping it is what makes me able to dodge thrice in a row. This must be the issue.

I double-tap. I like being able to control which direction I dodge. Most often I dodge to the sides in a strafing pattern to maintain distance to target.
Also, I don’t panic and mash my buttons causing an accidental dodge. I see no reason not to double-tap for dodge.

Disclaimer: I don’t like JPs and don’t do them often. I can see how the double-tap here would be a serious hinderance.

Dub.1273:

Source here, although i’m still missing a full necro solo. Got him to 20% but started struggling out of boredom. Don’t try solo’ing a boss with 1.456.800 HP with your necro on a vitality mainstat equip.

This game gives you enough time to react with a doubletap everywhere. IYou can even dodge the quickest animations (rapidfire/fiery whirl from ascalon captain ashym after one tick blocked with aegis and some few others) in PvE and gives you even more time in PvP. A 0.25 second reaction window is more than enough to doubletap.

“Enough” is trivial. PvE in this game is easy, and most players in PvP are very bad, so “enough” is relative.

If it works for you, more power to you. The point isn’t whether it is enough for a certain person, but whether the method is itself superior – it is. Unarguably.

Dub.1273:

Also, double tap has it’s strengths. No need to use an additional button so you won’t get problems dodging and activating utilitys at the same.

I don’t see how this is an issue. You can’t move while dodging, so you have at least one extra finger free. Press the respective utility key and return to normal place.

Dub.1273:

And the biggest plus for doubletapping is actually dodging into whatever direction you feel like without moving any bit in there before.

How is this exclusive to double taping? You can dodge into any direction instantly and without “moving any bit in there before” with a dodge key too: Press the direction you wish to dodge in at the same time you press dodge. In fact, it’s the most accurate way to do it since double tapping requires a premature pressing of the direction you wish to dodge in.

Dub.1273:

Sure, there are better players than me, some using doubletap and sone using hotkeys.
But personally i’m sure i won’t do any better using a hotkey. I did it for two weeks or so but quickly came back to doubletap.

Guarantee you will if you give it enough time to adjust. Again, back to the training wheels analogy, once a person first drops their training wheels they require re-adjusting. They need to re-learn to ride a bike without the wheels. For the duration of this process they are, indeed, worse bike riders. But once they adjust their performance increases notoriously.

Vayne.8563:

Training wheels indeed.

In order to dodge correctly, in the first place, you need to know where you are and where your opponent is…and you don’t.

Because? How in the world can one extrapolate positional awareness based on keyboard preference? Or were you just spouting incoherent nonsense with the objective of aggravating me?

Vayne.8563:

No matter how fast your connection no matter how low your ping, there is a difference between where things on on the main server and where they show on your screen. It’s never 100% accurate.

The more latency/lag you have due to either internet providers or location, the more likely it is you’re seeing something that doesn’t exist anymore. This whole I can press one key faster than two making any difference at all is mostly influenced by people with the absolutely lowest pings.

The first paragraph is correct, but irrelevant, the second paragraph is incorrect and mostly nonsense.

Yes, lag exists. How in the world does this matter? Double tap does not bypass or circumvent the latency issue. If anything it is more vulnerable to it. Since it requires a double overlapping input, latency and lag spikes can cause very time-separate inputs to be received closely enough together to turn a non-dodge input into a dodge. Or separate inputs just enough to deny a necessary roll.

Vayne.8563:

It’s no less efficient to use it with a higher ping because it all comes down to random chance anyway. It’s not a matter of skill at whether you dodge at that point, but it’s a matter of luck. The absolutely split second you’re calling training wheels changes nothing for most of the game’s population.

If most of the game’s population happens to be from Australia you are correct. Since they aren’t, I very much doubt most of the game’s population is playing with over 200 ms of ping, which is roughly the average human reaction time. In fact, based on my online experience I’d extrapolate most of us are playing anywhere from 50 to 100 ping, which is quite good and, in a game like GW2, nearly inconsequential. If you have evidence of the contrary please show it, otherwise I’m calling BS and saying maybe it’s just you who plays “down to random chance anyways”. Would explain a lot.

I don’t double tap, i play with a game mouse and a nostromo, target, movement, dodge and interaction etc are all on mouse buttons, skills, f keys, loot, map etc are bound on the nostromo.

The second time I double-tapped off a ledge trying to position the next jump in the halloween puzzle, that was when I turned double tap off. I use B to dodge on my gamepad.

ofcourse double tap dodging so I can dodge to appropriate direction

Using shift for dodge is so much faster and easier than double tapping. But I move and strafe with the keyboard and turn with my mouse so if I want to dodge I’m generally wanting to do it in the direction I’m already moving and it’s just a quick button press away.

doubletap will get you killed in pvp so no tnx