Guild Wars 2

What is everyone’s opinion of the downed state in all states of the game? sPvP, WvW, PvE, etc.

I’m rather curious because it is kind of a new thing in MMO genre and my friends and I have been discussing it. This is our opinion on the matter. What is everyone elses? We’re nearing the one year anniversary of Gw2 so I feel we’ve had enough experience with this mechanic to properly gauge it’s usefulness and effectiveness in the game.

Basically we’ve come to the conclusion (just our opinions of course) that the downed state is great for leveling and event end game dungeons/PvE content. However, we feel that it should be looked at in WvW and PvP. We both agree that the rally system in these two aspects of the game could be a bit too helpful. Having a play tag a random mosquito and then it getting killed by AoE in the middle of a fight for him to rez off of is a bit ridiculous. We also feel it splits the community too much in WvW because people view lower levels as burdens and annoyances. You’re in the middle of a fight and the enemy is rallied because a level 15 was in the battle and died very quickly or was focused down. The rally mechanic also makes coming back from out-manned situations a lot harder, close to impossible depending on your classes. We believe the downed state should stay, but the rally mechanic should not stay in PvP/WvW. Force players to rez teammates or to use their rez skills. Not just rely on underleveled players or random NPCs.

I don’t even like it in normal pve content. It’s a bad idea and because it’s part of the combat system as it is, you’re expected to go down. Not very heroic and for me a mechanic I could’ve done without.

Needs to go away

Down-state is GW2 unique feature. It won’t go away. And it gives a heroic feeling when you succeed and rally up. It is really innovative feature.
If you don’t want to use it, just let yourself get killed, but let others fight for their survival if they prefer.

Ronah.2869:

Down-state is GW2 unique feature. It won’t go away. And it gives a heroic feeling when you succeed and rally up. It is really innovative feature.
If you don’t want to use it, just let yourself get killed, but let others fight for their survival if they prefer.

pretty much this!

tho there is no place in sPvP (im looking at you zerg rez!)

Denial Of Service.5732:

Ronah.2869:

Down-state is GW2 unique feature. It won’t go away. And it gives a heroic feeling when you succeed and rally up. It is really innovative feature.
If you don’t want to use it, just let yourself get killed, but let others fight for their survival if they prefer.

pretty much this!

tho there is no place in sPvP (im looking at you zerg rez!)

Yeah I’m not saying its bad in all aspects of the game. I understand it wont go away and we know that many players like it. That why we were thinking of reworking the rez mechanic to remove the rally system so players rely more on their teammates to rez. Helps encourage team play rather than tagging npcs.

Denial Of Service.5732:

Ronah.2869:

Down-state is GW2 unique feature. It won’t go away. And it gives a heroic feeling when you succeed and rally up. It is really innovative feature.
If you don’t want to use it, just let yourself get killed, but let others fight for their survival if they prefer.

pretty much this!

tho there is no place in sPvP (im looking at you zerg rez!)

There is a sPvP format that is larger than 8v8?

The skills should be redone for pvp and players should start with less health. That is unless Anet would kindly remove it. Down state alone is responsible for making the game rather crappy in 2v1/3v1. “I got one…nvm he’s back up…gg”. Other games are more enjoyable in outnumbered situations, GW2 favors bad play immensely.

I hate it. kittened mechanic for casuals. Death is already very forgiving in this game.

My views on it:

In PvE its a beneficial mechanic that adds another layer to the combat. Because of it the enemy damage can be higher giving more reliance to things like dodges rather than players tanking all the damage, and if someone makes a mistake they aren’t instantly killed, they only fall down where their allies can help them back up.

However a problem arises when it comes to “stacking”. Since enemies have single target focused attacks or very predictable AoE attacks that can easily be dodged by the entire party, players can huddle together and if anyone goes down the group is already next to him and can instantly bring him back up.

Because of this the downed state removes any risk that stacking would cause otherwise, and in the end stacking is less risky than spreading out and keeping your distance from the boss. This causes some major issues in the risk vs reward system, which is what certain things like melee vs range damage were balanced around.

In WvW I don’t see the downed state as a beneficial mechanic. It gives even further advantages to higher numbers, is biased towards melee and high survivability builds who can use finishers better, some classes have obviously better downed states, just to name a few of the issues.

I do think the mechanic has potential and could use some major tweaks. My main issue with it is that there are not enough tactical options when dealing with downed players. When assisting downed players the only options you have are reviving or killing nearby players, and when reviving the only thing you need to account for is if you are going to be attacked when doing so. When finishing downed players direct damage can’t even out damage a single reviver, finishers are more melee based, easily interrupted, and risky, and its too difficult to shut down players who are trying to revive the player.

In order to address this, I can think of a few things that would help:

There needs to be a larger penalty for the player after he is revived, and possibly one for the reviver. This would make stacking less effective and give players more to think about when reviving a player; should they focus on finishing nearby enemies first or bring the player back up in the middle of the fight and have to continue fighting with a penalty?

Reviving needs to be easier to shut down. Making it would similarly to a finish, where they need to charge it up and it heals the player at the end of the charged revive, would allow players to more effectively shut down the reviver.

We could use more options than just reviving and finishing. Perhaps a system where certain boons and conditions affected downed players in special ways would work. Aegis could stop a finisher, immobilize and stuns could stop healing from revives, swiftness could increase bandage healing, stability could stop bandage from being interrupted, and things like that. This would essentially allow players to shut down or support downed players without having to revive, finish, or damage them, giving more tactical options.

Peetee.9406:

Needs to go away

/\ x 1,000,000

I absolutely loathe the ‘downed state’. The only place it seems to be even remotely useful is during underwater combat.

The Downed state is fine in every aspect of the game. However when it comes to Rally I don’t know I think you should only rally if YOU kill your target or at least damaged it more than someone else.

All it does is prolong my death. I wish there was a key I could use to just kill myself once I’m downed instead of waiting to get killed by the 50 mobs I accidentally agroed because I’m terrible at this game.

For my characters the best downed skill would be called, “pistol to temple”.

In PvE, as long as we have players being downed by attacks that are impossible to see and thus avoid, I believe downed state is a benefit. In WvW, it’s a pain, especially when outnumbered.

I actually like rally in PvE, it allows for some small measure of skill to apply in some situations. In WvW, rallying off a mob is silly, but then again, I’m not sure why there are mobs in WvW. If rallying off the upscaled is an issue, then revise the upscaling.

I think it’s pointless and redundant.

There is already a mechanic called “knockdown” – which means you’re down on the ground not being able to do anything while you are still alive.

A friend watching me play commented that it has got to be the stupidest thing he has seen in an mmorpg. Not only is death already without any real penalty in this game, Downed State just removes the risk completely from not paying attention to your HP going down.

Furthermore, not only does coming back up allows you to “Rally”(which again doesn’t make sense. Why would something like that be glorified?), getting downed also remove all conditions previously had.

Bri.8354:

However a problem arises when it comes to “stacking”. Since enemies have single target focused attacks or very predictable AoE attacks that can easily be dodged by the entire party, players can huddle together and if anyone goes down the group is already next to him and can instantly bring him back up.

Because of this the downed state removes any risk that stacking would cause otherwise, and in the end stacking is less risky than spreading out and keeping your distance from the boss. This causes some major issues in the risk vs reward system, which is what certain things like melee vs range damage were balanced around.

Removing downed state will not affect this. Even without downed state stacking would still be more preferable due to the range of support abilities.

Btw, i quite like downed state. Being downed chucking rocks at a boss only to kill it and thus avoiding a complete wipe feels awesome.

Oh and it’s not that much harder to solo small groups of other players you just can’t forget that they’re still alive which loads of people do. The amount of times i was ignored while downed and then got back up from using bandage is astonishing. Stability stomp, invuln stomp, stealth stomp, simple damage and CCing their allies are the order of the day.

As for rallying off mossies in wvw… yeah, they should be ambients or vets.

I do not believe it belongs in this game. PvE shouldn’t be centred around it because it opens the door for one shot mechanics and perma-stun fights, the new living world content best reflects this example. Stability only lasts for so long and the utility cool downs are downright redonkulous.

Not to mention it makes PvP in general pretty bland and annoying. When I PvP, I am here to see bodies drop not crawl around and knock back people for sake of just annoying the opposite opponent.

Ok so the general responses seem to be either removal or major reworks of a few things.

Now lets say they remove the downed state from s/tpvp, WvW, and instanced PvE (such as fractals and dungeons). Do you think the community would react in a bad or good way.

Lets say the take out the rally mechanic, same thing. Community react in a positive or negative manner?

Finally what if they remove it completely? How would the community react?

I think they need to work on balancing downed stats across professions

I like the mechanic over all for learning. If something kills you you get a chance to get back up and try again without having to run back and restart everything from scratch. So good for PvE. I’m not sure about in PvP as the downed abilities aren’t exactly balanced.

I like the downed state. The downed state (combined with dodge and positional attacks) is GW2’s replacement for dedicated healers. In most MMOs you need a dedicated Healer in order to recover the party in dire circumstances. Instead, GW2 offers the downed state which allows everyone to suddenly become a Healer and help a party member in need.

Stop thinking of the end of the health bar being the point where the player should die. That simply isn’t how it works in this game. The downed state in GW2 is no different than any other MMOs when you get an enemy nearly dead and then suddenly have someone fully heal them.

Dastion.3106:

I like the downed state. The downed state (combined with dodge and positional attacks) is GW2’s replacement for dedicated healers. In most MMOs you need a dedicated Healer in order to recover the party in dire circumstances. Instead, GW2 offers the downed state which allows everyone to suddenly become a Healer and help a party member in need.

Stop thinking of the end of the health bar being the point where the player should die. That simply isn’t how it works in this game. The downed state in GW2 is no different than any other MMOs when you get an enemy nearly dead and then suddenly have someone fully heal them.

I see your point, but remember that most people had teams where they would only have one healer. In this game people not only have support/heal skills, but also rez skills and manual rezzing. So in previous game it was a lot easier to stop one healer than it is to stop 2+ people rezzing someone.

But I talked with a few guildies in game and some randoms. People do seem to like the mechanic, but many want a lot of balancing done. Making downed state effective in all aspects of the game. Others felt it was out of place in PvP scenarios.

Been saying it was horrible since release.

It’s nothing but a big excuse to have terrible telegraphs, one shot mechanics and way too much dmg flying around.

Get one shot by stuff you can’t see? NO PROBLEM, just get back up anyway, then again, and again, then again. Spend literally half the fight in downed state spamming 1 for bad dmg, instead of being able to use player skill to outplay mob mechanics and players, FUN!

It needs to go away, make downed state a lot weaker (can be killed easily), but reduce the crazy amount of dmg flying around and make it actually well telegraphed so everything is actually reasonably avoidable and clear.

Same goes for PvP, increase the TTK instead of the cheesy burst dmg that exists and then nerf downed state, increase telegraphs so it’s possible to avoid being killed with skill instead of down state saving you over and over.

Dastion.3106:

I like the downed state. The downed state (combined with dodge and positional attacks) is GW2’s replacement for dedicated healers. In most MMOs you need a dedicated Healer in order to recover the party in dire circumstances. Instead, GW2 offers the downed state which allows everyone to suddenly become a Healer and help a party member in need.

Stop thinking of the end of the health bar being the point where the player should die. That simply isn’t how it works in this game. The downed state in GW2 is no different than any other MMOs when you get an enemy nearly dead and then suddenly have someone fully heal them.

No it’s a replacement for player skill. Everyone having self heals is a replacement for healers, and this an action RPG, player skill and avoidance is what should be keeping you alive, not downed state.

As I said downed state is just an excuse to have ridiculous one shot mechanics that are NOT telegraphed properly and too much unavoidable dmg flying around, that’s all it is, it essentially dumbs down the game in the most annoying way possible.

I like it because it gives you a chance to make a comeback.

I don’t like it because it is still somewhat glitchy, and because the downed states between classes are horribly unbalanced. The 3-skills on all of them except Rangers are next to worthless, 4-skill means nothing if you’re being directly attacked, and 1-skill is, as I said, horribly unbalanced between classes.

If it were me, I’d change the downed skills appropriately:

Elementalist: Skill 1 inflicts 1 second of blind with each attack. That lets you pin down one opponent, so if you were being group attacked you’d still get killed. In PvP, it wouldn’t matter much if the opponent is intelligent enough to fight a way around and finish you, so it wouldn’t upset the balance much. Elementalist’s downed state should be themed around avoidance and disruption, judging by Mist Form’s presence.

Engineer: While an Engineer’s downed state is very disruptive, it sits in a class akin to the guardian’s: a downed engie is a dead one.

Guardian: Skill 1 should inflict 2 seconds of burn with each attack; more damage on burning targets. Being that the Guardian fires a death ray of smiting from his fingertips, it hits more like a flashlight of smiting. Adding a conditional damage increase gives a guardian a better fighting chance when downed. As it currently stands, a downed guardian is as good as a dead guardian.

Mesmer: Actually, the inflicted confusion can be really strong. I’m not going to suggest any changes here.

Necromancer: A Necromancer in downed state can actually cause quite a bit of havoc, although you have to trait into it to do it, and who is honestly going to waste traits on buffing a semi-defeated state? This goes against the idea of building a character in the first place, which is to not get owned. If Necromancer downed skills get a little buff and the stupid downed state traits get dumped entirely, I won’t be sad.

Ranger: Likewise, rangers can stack a lot of bleeds with throw dirt, so no change, though why it causes bleeding is far beyond my ken. Also, Lick Wounds is very glitchy. I’ve had times when I’ve used this skill and my pet just sits there going “hurrrr” while I’m getting slapped around until I die.

Warrior: Warrior’s downed state is awfully weaksauce, but it needs to be because a Warrior can essentially say “no” to a downed state and have a chance to rally after fighting at FULL POWER. While this is very cool lorewise, I do not know if I agree that it is balanced.

Thief: Thief’s downed state is also very meh, but I don’t know if I have any suggestions.

For all classes, Call Aid should either heal more or not get interrupted every time one takes damage. I feel like these changes would make downed state more relevant and a part of the experience rather than an underpowered state of inevitable death.

Deified.7520:

What is everyone’s opinion of the downed state in all states of the game? sPvP, WvW, PvE, etc.

I’m rather curious because it is kind of a new thing in MMO genre and my friends and I have been discussing it. This is our opinion on the matter. What is everyone elses? We’re nearing the one year anniversary of Gw2 so I feel we’ve had enough experience with this mechanic to properly gauge it’s usefulness and effectiveness in the game.

Basically we’ve come to the conclusion (just our opinions of course) that the downed state is great for leveling and event end game dungeons/PvE content. However, we feel that it should be looked at in WvW and PvP. We both agree that the rally system in these two aspects of the game could be a bit too helpful. Having a play tag a random mosquito and then it getting killed by AoE in the middle of a fight for him to rez off of is a bit ridiculous. We also feel it splits the community too much in WvW because people view lower levels as burdens and annoyances. You’re in the middle of a fight and the enemy is rallied because a level 15 was in the battle and died very quickly or was focused down. The rally mechanic also makes coming back from out-manned situations a lot harder, close to impossible depending on your classes. We believe the downed state should stay, but the rally mechanic should not stay in PvP/WvW. Force players to rez teammates or to use their rez skills. Not just rely on underleveled players or random NPCs.

I’m not a fan of it personally. I respect that they tried to do something different, and in other games like call of duty I do like having a down state, but here it just doesn’t feel right for me – and I’m almost certain it’s specifically because of the moves they give you in that state that makes me not like it so much. Just way too weak for me.

I’d honestly rather just die and respawn then sit there in a sometimes long, drawn out button mashing mess looking like the most helpless and weak creature in the game. One second I’m an amazing warrior, bashing in skulls in with my mace..the next i’m a defenseless little kitten throwing pebbles…man just typing about it sucks. At the very least it needs to be overhauled. It pretty much feels like a band-aid solution to teamwork.

The downed state in PvP is a little …. Demeaning. When I down a player in pvp, and they use up their #2 skill which interrupts me, all they are left with is my mercy, and all I can think of while stomping them is “Yeah! Yeaaaah! Plead for your life!”

I was a big supporter of downed state, but I’t getting more annoying from day to day. It promotes sloppy playing and doesn’t reward skillful play is pvp.

There would be way more strategy without downed state imo.

To me the downed state is just more HP before you die…except that you do not have full control over your character during the last stage of his health.

The downed state is only useful when

a) you are not alone and there are not too many hard hitting enemies or enemies with knock down skills around

b) the enemy is alone and nearly dead too

c) you are close to the leash distance of the mob and don’t die before the “move me away from here” skill is useable.

In every other situation downed is a waste of time. I already hated the down state in “Borderlands”. Also having the “down state” can and probably does influence balance decisions.

Downed state is fine. You have to learn how to use it.

Azraelle.1683:

I hate it. kittened mechanic for casuals. Death is already very forgiving in this game.

Casual =/= bad.
Casual employees aren’t necessarily less qualified/productive than full-time workers, they simply prioritize their time elsewhere

Been playing the game for a while and have been in strong favour of the downed state. Added new depth until I started to get serious about wvwvw and spvp.
It really needs to go in spvp and wvw-
As everyone stated – it promotes really bad play and just annoys the heck out of you… thieves/s and their cheesy ports while downed, eles cheap mistforming into towers…
By all means, keep it in pve! Actually give us more skills and options! but really, please take it out of spvp and wvw.

Wanderer.3248:

Downed state is fine. You have to learn how to use it.

Arrogant much?

Ronah.2869:

Down-state is GW2 unique feature.

It is really innovative feature.

Conceptually similar to preexisting game mechanics – undeserving of this praise.
Also originality isn’t justifiably inherently praiseworthy.

Ronah.2869:

It won’t go away.

And there are space ponies on Mars.
Neither of our claims have any truthful credibility.

Ronah.2869:

And it gives a heroic feeling when you succeed and rally up.

Not everyone feels this way, and this success is mostly determined by allying players.

Ronah.2869:

If you don’t want to use it, just let yourself get killed, but let others fight for their survival if they prefer.

Down-state is a fixed passive effect. The choice to use it or not has never been an option.

Stay in pve and be removed in anything pvp involved. I hate seeing three people mob rushing and rez a person, really poor game mechanic

It isn’t going away. Get over it, or find a new game to play. There are a few coming.

ANet has monetized the downed state via finisher items on the gem store.

It can be safely said that it is not going away.

I like the down state in pve. There are some situations, though, when I would like to shorten the process and get over with the dying business. So a “suicide” skill would be handy.

I have no opinion about the down state in wvw or pvp, not doing that.

Ronah.2869:

Down-state is GW2 unique feature. It won’t go away. And it gives a heroic feeling when you succeed and rally up. It is really innovative feature.
If you don’t want to use it, just let yourself get killed, but let others fight for their survival if they prefer.

It gives you a heroic feeling throwing sand at someone while you try and stand back up?

It’s simply a delay to death… time waster.

Soja.5918:

ANet has monetized the downed state via finisher items on the gem store.

It can be safely said that it is not going away.

And this, folks, is the truth of the f2p model.

Zeldain.5710:

Soja.5918:

ANet has monetized the downed state via finisher items on the gem store.

It can be safely said that it is not going away.

And this, folks, is the truth of the f2p model.

Because them finishers are SO OP!

Not sure what the issue with finishers are…they don’t affect game-play whatsoever and are purely cosmetic.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Because them finishers are SO OP!

Not sure what the issue with finishers are…they don’t affect game-play whatsoever and are purely cosmetic.

That’s exactly the issue – they don’t affect gameplay whatsoever. So instead of design time going into gameplay, it went into monetization.

Zeldain.5710:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Because them finishers are SO OP!

Not sure what the issue with finishers are…they don’t affect game-play whatsoever and are purely cosmetic.

That’s exactly the issue – they don’t affect gameplay whatsoever. So instead of design time going into gameplay, it went into monetization.

Yup, it’s exactly the same issue with GvG players squatting in the WvW maps. Anet hasn’t yet figured out how to monetize it, so they don’t support it all.

it is part of the game and can/should be utilized by any pvp player, it actually adds a new layer of tactics to the fights. I think it mainly is debated at all because “it wasn´t in that other game I played before…”.

Soja.5918:

ANet has monetized the downed state via finisher items on the gem store.

It can be safely said that it is not going away.

I get what you mean.
Their commitment discourages the likelihood they would completely remove down-state from PvP (though not impossible ;P ).

Personally I would settle for the map option to toggle it off (even though I love the strategy involved in resurrecting/finishing players), because it rewards negative play – effectually punishing good play, lowers combat potency/influence and removes skill as a determining factor of combat: not fun.

I know balance is practically unobtainable in the genre, but down-state is a shackle to the cause.

Next thing you know, people will be asking for the removal of the ability to resurrect people unless they specifically slot a skill for it.

If they can’t remove it, they should make the “FINISH” animation 50% faster and not have the player go INVULNERABLE when they’re going into their Downed State, also reduce their Downed hp by 50%.

In sPvP and WvW that is, I think it’s perfectly fine the way it is in PvE.

IceBlink.4317:

Next thing you know, people will be asking for the removal of the ability to resurrect people unless they specifically slot a skill for it.

Yep, I made up perfectly valid points of contention because I secretly want to change the game formula to replicate WoW…

Or you know, there could actually be something wrong with the mechanic – indifferent to any assumed fix/suggestion.

Zeldain.5710:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Because them finishers are SO OP!

Not sure what the issue with finishers are…they don’t affect game-play whatsoever and are purely cosmetic.

That’s exactly the issue – they don’t affect gameplay whatsoever. So instead of design time going into gameplay, it went into monetization.

So, what, you’re saying that anything monetized should affect game-play? Because, one way or another, Anet needs to have income from the gemstore.

Also, I’m pretty sure the animators and modelers who create things like finishers aren’t the ones who work on game-play mechanics.

So while the game designers are coming up / working on things like mechanics, instead of just sitting around, these animators and modelers work on items such as these. I can’t imagine things like finishers taking up a tonne of time to create.

Personally, I hate it, because of rallying (rallying is the real issue, not downed state). Its one of the main reasons this game’s content is so easy. It should be completely removed from PvP, WvW and open world PvE, and maybe dungeons.

In PvP, all it does is shorten the skill gap. Even the worst of players can come out on top if a team mate shows up at the right time to get them back up. In WvW and PvE, it promotes and prolongs zerg play (something the game’s engine can’t handle well); it turns something that should be about tactics and strategy into a numbers game.