Guild Wars 2

Essence Snow.3194:

Behellagh.1468:

You are too reward driven. Where’s the fun, the enjoyment? Nope, it’s all about the lucre.

In a MMO that’s like saying “You’re too into killing monsters.” or “You’re too into exploring.”

It’s one of the core elements. Explore…kill things…get rewards…with work together thrown in there.

Yes but some are only focusing on the reward. It’s like focusing on the destination and ignoring the journey.

Sadly that’s what MMOs have devolved into. Build the most OP character that’s currently allowed and repeatedly do the content that rewards the most lucre in the shortest amount of time. Genre isn’t important. Lore isn’t important. Profession isn’t important. It’s about getting the most lucre as fast as possible for what? Get the best of everything and then what? You win so onto the next MMO?

Tman.6349:

And here I clicked on this thread thinking it was a speculation on the Dungeon changes and it’s link for ‘real’ Dungeoneer to sell to buy orders to quickly clear their inventory. I was wrong. :/

Clickbait is clickbait…

Sorry it started as a “if you nerf dungeon rewards you must also nerf traders aka flippers” rage thread.

Behellagh.1468:

Tman.6349:

And here I clicked on this thread thinking it was a speculation on the Dungeon changes and it’s link for ‘real’ Dungeoneer to sell to buy orders to quickly clear their inventory. I was wrong. :/

Clickbait is clickbait…

Sorry it started as a “if you nerf dungeon rewards you must also nerf traders aka flippers” rage thread.

I guess I came in late OR the subtext totally flew over my little brain then… :/

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

Behellagh.1468:

You are too reward driven. Where’s the fun, the enjoyment? Nope, it’s all about the lucre.

In a MMO that’s like saying “You’re too into killing monsters.” or “You’re too into exploring.”

It’s one of the core elements. Explore…kill things…get rewards…with work together thrown in there.

Yes but some are only focusing on the reward. It’s like focusing on the destination and ignoring the journey.

Sadly that’s what MMOs have devolved into. Build the most OP character that’s currently allowed and repeatedly do the content that rewards the most lucre in the shortest amount of time. Genre isn’t important. Lore isn’t important. Profession isn’t important. It’s about getting the most lucre as fast as possible for what? Get the best of everything and then what? You win so onto the next MMO?

the best way to solve that problem is to make content rewarding and not to design goals that are best played through repetitive grind.

But thats a lot more work.

What exactly are flippers

phys.7689:

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

Behellagh.1468:

You are too reward driven. Where’s the fun, the enjoyment? Nope, it’s all about the lucre.

In a MMO that’s like saying “You’re too into killing monsters.” or “You’re too into exploring.”

It’s one of the core elements. Explore…kill things…get rewards…with work together thrown in there.

Yes but some are only focusing on the reward. It’s like focusing on the destination and ignoring the journey.

Sadly that’s what MMOs have devolved into. Build the most OP character that’s currently allowed and repeatedly do the content that rewards the most lucre in the shortest amount of time. Genre isn’t important. Lore isn’t important. Profession isn’t important. It’s about getting the most lucre as fast as possible for what? Get the best of everything and then what? You win so onto the next MMO?

the best way to solve that problem is to make content rewarding and not to design goals that are best played through repetitive grind.

But thats a lot more work.

And too quickly burned through. That’s why there’s this push to “challenging content” and collecting throughout the game to get some reward. To be the time sink that this game wasn’t built with already cooked in.

In theory MMOs are suppose to last forever but that’s tough to execute as the die hard players will burn through anything new in a matter of days and then vocally complain in the forums that there is nothing to do. Only pure sandbox MMOs like EVE can last forever because a large portion of the content is player created syndicates and corporations trying to control the most profitable parts of space.

Eddie Mo.7169:

What exactly are flippers

Flippers is a school of dolphins.

They’re actually fairly clever.

phys.7689:

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

Behellagh.1468:

You are too reward driven. Where’s the fun, the enjoyment? Nope, it’s all about the lucre.

In a MMO that’s like saying “You’re too into killing monsters.” or “You’re too into exploring.”

It’s one of the core elements. Explore…kill things…get rewards…with work together thrown in there.

Yes but some are only focusing on the reward. It’s like focusing on the destination and ignoring the journey.

Sadly that’s what MMOs have devolved into. Build the most OP character that’s currently allowed and repeatedly do the content that rewards the most lucre in the shortest amount of time. Genre isn’t important. Lore isn’t important. Profession isn’t important. It’s about getting the most lucre as fast as possible for what? Get the best of everything and then what? You win so onto the next MMO?

the best way to solve that problem is to make content rewarding and not to design goals that are best played through repetitive grind.

But thats a lot more work.

Neither is it profitable as a game developer.

It’s really easy to get blinded by nostalgia and go all “back in my day MMO’s were called MUD’s and we played for the funzies!” while completely ignoring the fact that modern AAA MMOs cost millions of dollars to make.

Tman.6349:

Eddie Mo.7169:

What exactly are flippers

Flippers is a school of dolphins.

They’re actually fairly clever.

Funny, but I wouldn’t be able to understand discussion unless I know what a flipper is

Anyone?

Eddie Mo.7169:

What exactly are flippers

Instead of buying something for honest purposes they buy stuff with the purpose of reselling it later.

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

Behellagh.1468:

You are too reward driven. Where’s the fun, the enjoyment? Nope, it’s all about the lucre.

In a MMO that’s like saying “You’re too into killing monsters.” or “You’re too into exploring.”

It’s one of the core elements. Explore…kill things…get rewards…with work together thrown in there.

Yes but some are only focusing on the reward. It’s like focusing on the destination and ignoring the journey.

Sadly that’s what MMOs have devolved into. Build the most OP character that’s currently allowed and repeatedly do the content that rewards the most lucre in the shortest amount of time. Genre isn’t important. Lore isn’t important. Profession isn’t important. It’s about getting the most lucre as fast as possible for what? Get the best of everything and then what? You win so onto the next MMO?

That is up to each individual. If more individuals want to do something…so be it, it’s their choice to have.

Agemnon.4608:

Eddie Mo.7169:

What exactly are flippers

Instead of buying something for honest purposes they buy stuff with the purpose of reselling it later.

Replace “honest purposes” with “intent to personally use”.

Eddie Mo.7169:

What exactly are flippers

In the purest form they buy an item off the TP and then turn around and sell it at a price where they can make a profit. They place buy orders and take what they bought and sell it with buy orders.

Now players selling items to the high bid could just as well place a higher sell order but they don’t, willing to leave profit on the table for the quick sale. Same with buying items, they would rather pay more for it now than place a bid that may be filled sometime later. That’s where flippers or player traders step in. They are willing to eat that time for you as long as they can “flip” the item they bought for a profit.

Behellagh.1468:

Only pure sandbox MMOs like EVE can last forever because a large portion of the content is player created syndicates and corporations trying to control the most profitable parts of space.

Eve survives because it’s the purest form of a PvP MMO experience one can have. So much so that the developers completely condone scamming and general griefing in the game.

People play it for the PvP and that is what it survives on just as FPS’s survive on it.

Dungeons are pretty much dead from what I see. There are more people in silverwaste maps there are people in dungeon maps combined. Don’t believe me? Go look. Seriously, check it out. They’re almost dead. I would say they’re kicking a dead horse, but that would imply they’re trying to get something out of it.

At least they’re being honest in a way. Let dungeons fade away; they’re already burnt out.

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Dungeons are pretty much dead from what I see. There are more people in silverwaste maps there are people in dungeon maps combined. Don’t believe me? Go look. Seriously, check it out. They’re almost dead. I would say they’re kicking a dead horse, but that would imply they’re trying to get something out of it.

At least they’re being honest in a way. Let dungeons fade away; they’re already burnt out.

In exchange for what exactly? Mini dungeons that are even less popular and just as abandoned content-wise?

Dungeons died because Anet didn’t want to put in the work to add on to them and keep them relevant. Not because of some inherent design flaw.

Substance E.4852:

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Dungeons are pretty much dead from what I see. There are more people in silverwaste maps there are people in dungeon maps combined. Don’t believe me? Go look. Seriously, check it out. They’re almost dead. I would say they’re kicking a dead horse, but that would imply they’re trying to get something out of it.

At least they’re being honest in a way. Let dungeons fade away; they’re already burnt out.

In exchange for what exactly? Mini dungeons that are even less popular and just as abandoned content-wise?

Dungeons died because Anet didn’t want to put in the work to add on to them and keep them relevant. Not because of some inherent design flaw.

They decided that fractals gave them more design options by not having them integrated into the world.

Shufflepants.9785:

Wanze.8410:

Celtic Lady.3729:

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Obviously, our sole purpose is to destroy the fun for other players, while John Smith takes care of the devs.

John Smith.4610:

Wanze.8410:

John, did it ever happen that a new feature or game mechanic that was proposed internally by the dev team was vetoed by you because it would have too big of an impact on the economy?

50 Times a week, I am the destroyer of the designers intention to make people happy.

Am I the only one who reads these forums almost exclusively for posts written by Wanze?

Nah, I read it for the drama that ensues every time articles like today’s come out.

Behellagh.1468:

Substance E.4852:

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Dungeons are pretty much dead from what I see. There are more people in silverwaste maps there are people in dungeon maps combined. Don’t believe me? Go look. Seriously, check it out. They’re almost dead. I would say they’re kicking a dead horse, but that would imply they’re trying to get something out of it.

At least they’re being honest in a way. Let dungeons fade away; they’re already burnt out.

In exchange for what exactly? Mini dungeons that are even less popular and just as abandoned content-wise?

Dungeons died because Anet didn’t want to put in the work to add on to them and keep them relevant. Not because of some inherent design flaw.

I never said they were exchanging anything for them. You said that. I also never said they were a flawed design, you brought that up. Thanks for arguing with me, or yourself whatever.

They decided that fractals gave them more design options by not having them integrated into the world.

I agree. It’s alot easier to deal with since they don’t need to make sure they’re keeping up with the lore. People just speculate what most fractals are so it doesn’t need to tie into anything really.

Is this troll thread? Its really hard to read all that bull(youknowwhat)

I think OP is just ultra jealous about TP flippers money. How can someone blame flippers for inflation? Just wow!
As long as flippers use TP they are actually helping economy!

Firelysm.4967:

when they flip one item 50 trillion times.

Yes! and everytime they pay TP taxes and drain gold from economy. They dont generate gold. TP dont generate gold at all. Dungeons and fractals do. Devs understand that and are nerfing it.

I am not a tp flipper, I would want to have lots of gold like them. I actually like dungeons and fractals, they are my source of income, but I just cant stand OP lies.

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Behellagh.1468:

Substance E.4852:

ZanchinFissure.7981:

Dungeons are pretty much dead from what I see. There are more people in silverwaste maps there are people in dungeon maps combined. Don’t believe me? Go look. Seriously, check it out. They’re almost dead. I would say they’re kicking a dead horse, but that would imply they’re trying to get something out of it.

At least they’re being honest in a way. Let dungeons fade away; they’re already burnt out.

In exchange for what exactly? Mini dungeons that are even less popular and just as abandoned content-wise?

Dungeons died because Anet didn’t want to put in the work to add on to them and keep them relevant. Not because of some inherent design flaw.

I never said they were exchanging anything for them. You said that. I also never said they were a flawed design, you brought that up. Thanks for arguing with me, or yourself whatever.

They decided that fractals gave them more design options by not having them integrated into the world.

I agree. It’s alot easier to deal with since they don’t need to make sure they’re keeping up with the lore. People just speculate what most fractals are so it doesn’t need to tie into anything really.

I don’t appreciate you making it look like I said something that I didn’t (the part you bolded).

The economy had been a disaster since launch when a few players made bank creating large quantities of a certain precursor. That began the market manipulation of which is still controlled by a small percentage. This is why real world economies have no place in MMO’s. They stink for everyone except the 1%.

The best thing Anet is doing is removing the ability to buy and sell the new legendaries. They’ve been dictating the economy for far too long. and it’s about time this was remedied.

I like how people are in this medieval mindset of trading being devil’s work. “Those guys over there are doing better than me with the same amount of work. I’m actually jealous but I’ll just say in the church that they are evil and all trading must be banned!” Seriously guys… Don’t blame the things you don’t completely comprehend.

Kill the trading post entirely.
Make everything reasonably farmable/earnable by the individual…

And while half the room froths at the mouth and the other half wonders if I’m trolling, I’ll clarify; I don’t expect this would happen, but I actually would prefer it at this point.

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

They’re “allowed” because they facilitate the the gold sink that is the trading post and everything is done with consent from both sides of the party.

If you want to stop trading post flippers then don’t sell to buy orders and only post sell orders…..simple as that. If no one sells to buy orders then flippers can’t flip.

BUT people like instant gratification so they take a hit in potential profit to have the money now and other people take advantage of this desire for immediate cash to make money investing time into the sale.

this

It would be nice to actually farm everything for every item in the game yourself, but GW2 has many examples of how this is simply not practical. There are quite a few items where normal playing and farming would involve many years of doing so in large blocks of time for this to work, in some cases for more years than the game will likely exist.

So people farm gold instead and buy what they need for a given item in order to have it in a reasonable amount of time, but it would be nice to reasonably get all mats for oneself.

“Swimming swimming swimming, all summer long.
Swimming swimming swimming, it makes your flippers strong.”

Ameepa.6793:

“Swimming swimming swimming, all summer long.
Swimming swimming swimming, it makes your flippers strong.”

I think the API needs Quaggan Deep Thoughts.

Shufflepants.9785:

Am I the only one who reads these forums almost exclusively for posts written by Wanze?

It’s because of Wanze that i turned into a flipper long ago.

On-topic i am still no economic expert but from what i’ve learned in gw2 is that flippers are actually good for the ingame economy.
And i do not understand why people are so kitten about this way of moneymaking.
I don’t stand in the trading post all day long.
I do some fractals. i do some pvp and i buy and sell some items on the TP.
Just like everyone else can.

Sampo.9678:

Shufflepants.9785:

Am I the only one who reads these forums almost exclusively for posts written by Wanze?

It’s because of Wanze that i turned into a flipper long ago.

On-topic i am still no economic expert but from what i’ve learned in gw2 is that flippers are actually good for the ingame economy.
And i do not understand why people are so kitten about this way of moneymaking.
I don’t stand in the trading post all day long.
I do some fractals. i do some pvp and i buy and sell some items on the TP.
Just like everyone else can.

But … ah you use your brain. That’s not fair.

Shufflepants.9785:

Wanze.8410:

Celtic Lady.3729:

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Obviously, our sole purpose is to destroy the fun for other players, while John Smith takes care of the devs.

John Smith.4610:

Wanze.8410:

John, did it ever happen that a new feature or game mechanic that was proposed internally by the dev team was vetoed by you because it would have too big of an impact on the economy?

50 Times a week, I am the destroyer of the designers intention to make people happy.

Am I the only one who reads these forums almost exclusively for posts written by Wanze?

Me too.

This game is going downhill fast, I hope we can change this with a big enough riot or itll pretty much become a grindfest / pay to win micro transaction game :c

@Logos.1306

Logos you simply don’t understand that most of flippers don’t even lose money, the most money lost is by people who actually try to buy items that they need! And the money sink doesn’t even matter if small and big people pay taxes with same rate.

2nd suggestion that i got was such:
Make a boolean in an item object,

• if item was sold 1x on tp already
• market taxe fee to list is 50% higher

Simple as that.

Then every item would need to be tagged.

Firelysm.4967:

@Logos.1306

Logos you simply don’t understand that most of flippers don’t even lose money, the most money lost is by people who actually try to buy items that they need! And the money sink doesn’t even matter if small and big people pay taxes with same rate.

Simple as that.

wrong. the seller pay tax not the buyier. So when flippers sell something they pay tax everytime. So if they sell lets say thousands of materials for thousands of gold they pay both TP taxes thats 15% of that thousands gold being destroyed. They are loosing if for the sake of better economy (less inflation). Of course they are making lots on money anyway. But well, so what?
I see you are one of these people who would want to tax rich people in reall life ?
Everytime there is an voting, election or something, politicians promise that they will make bigger taxes for rich people so poor majority of socienty will vote on them. Because they are just jealous of their money.
You know what rich people then say when they hear that? They say “why you are punish us for our success?”
So you want to punish flippers because they are making money better then other players? why?

Again I am not flipper, and I am not rich, I have only 1 legendary, rich players have 3 or more, or all of them.

Firelysm.4967:

@Logos.1306

Logos you simply don’t understand that most of flippers don’t even lose money, the most money lost is by people who actually try to buy items that they need! And the money sink doesn’t even matter if small and big people pay taxes with same rate.

2nd suggestion that i got was such:
Make a boolean in an item object,

• if item was sold 1x on tp already
• market taxe fee to list is 50% higher

Simple as that.

The biggest issues i see for your suggestions are:

First of all, i dont think that flippers or investors are bad for the economy and John Smith, the game economist already mentioned several times that they dont really impact prices on the tp as significantly as most people think. Prices are driven by supply and demand of the general player base.

Its fairly easy to claim that rich players can just buy up some markets and sell at a higher price but it usually doesnt work like that, believe me, i tried many times.
You wont be able to get rid of all your stock at inflated prices unless there is a general demand change from the player base. And in that case, the price would have gone up, regardless of the investor buying up a large quantity.

For you as a consumer for that in demand item, it doesnt really matter, if 1 person bought up 100k supply between 1-2s and relisted it at 3s or if 4000 individual players bought a stack each for personal consumption.
The new price will be 2s. The difference is that the price spike will prbably conclude faster, if the investor buys them all up at once rather than 4000 players buying a stack each. A sudden price spike can be seen in a negative way, thats true but if the investor bought it, it has the positive effect, that the supply will go back onto the tp at 3s.

That creates a huge supply wall at 3s, which comes in handy, once the price actually reaches that barrier. If it wasnt there, the price will inflate much quicker to 4 or 5 silver.

So i think traders arent responsible for price inflation in most cases, its general demand.
There are some exceptions of course, especially for currently unobtainable items but for over a year now, since the start of LS season 2, Anet made a great effort to make most items available year round or at least reintroduce them from time to time to add new supply.

The biggest problem i see with your suggestions of account bound items after tp purchase or raising its sales tax after being traded once:
It will have huge implementation costs. They would need to make a 2nd item ID for every item to note if its tradeable or not. That will also mean, that those items wont stack anymore, so people will complain about lack of storage space.
For many item groups, this chance will have little effect anyways. Anything that can be used in crafting, forging, be salvaged or can be altered in other ways (for example a lootbag that gets opened) can just be bought on the tp, altered and sold again.

I make a great deal of profit just by opening lootbags, salvaging, crafting and forging and i guess, i would still be able to make significantly more profit than in other areas of the game, even without flipping and speculating. So your proposed change isnt really a great solution to your perceived problem, it would create unconvenience to a majority of players that have to deal with lack of storage space now and therefore in my eyes wouldnt warrant the implementation costs.

Celtic Lady.3729:

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Because Flipping is the real PvP.

Most people don’t get that you can just make a bot to do the flipping. Searches all the items on the TP, finds profit margins, buys at X price, sells at X% profit, etc. People just run one a couple of hours a day and make bulk coin from it. A month of letting it ‘farm’ the TP for two hours a day while you either AFK or play something else and you can buy a legendary outright. It’s bad.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Celtic Lady.3729:

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Because Flipping is the real PvP.

Most people don’t get that you can just make a bot to do the flipping. Searches all the items on the TP, finds profit margins, buys at X price, sells at X% profit, etc. People just run one a couple of hours a day and make bulk coin from it. A month of letting it ‘farm’ the TP for two hours a day while you either AFK or play something else and you can buy a legendary outright. It’s bad.

You are not allowed to use TP bots, so suggesting it is against the ToS.

Wanze.8410:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Celtic Lady.3729:

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Because Flipping is the real PvP.

Most people don’t get that you can just make a bot to do the flipping. Searches all the items on the TP, finds profit margins, buys at X price, sells at X% profit, etc. People just run one a couple of hours a day and make bulk coin from it. A month of letting it ‘farm’ the TP for two hours a day while you either AFK or play something else and you can buy a legendary outright. It’s bad.

You are not allowed to use TP bots, so suggesting it is against the ToS.

Please point out where I suggested that? I said people do it, its easy to do and its bad.

I’m kittened off.

Halan.7931:

Logos.1306:

So you want to punish flippers because they are making money better then other players? why?

But they are not actually MAKING money. They are redistributing it, screwing (by selling at higher price) those who actually need materials for crafting. They don’t do anything useful, just stand between real seller (who gathered the materials or items) and real buyer (who will use the them).

I support making everything (or at least materials) buyable/sellable only once.

You’re forgetting that flippers are also the ones who are buying materials. Now that you have flippers buying and selling you have a market. Having items account bound will make the market that much more static and the prices will never reach an equilibrium (results in low buy orders and high sell orders).

Secondly when the flipper are between the real buyer and real seller the market pays the tax 2 times -> more money goes away -> less inflation

Thirdly this redistributing “problem” you brought up sounds like straight up jealousy. Why would you not let people enjoy certain aspects of the game? Some ways just generate more gold than others. For example the RPers out there genuinely enjoy that type of gameplay but they don’t exactly get rewarded for it and I’ve never heard anyone complaining about it. If you say your way of playing the game should provide the most amount of gold then you sir are very very self centric.

People that talk about the economy if this game being kitten are really crazy. I have seen so much worse that GW2’s economy looks amazingly stable. There was a thread a while back that showed we are currently in deflation rather then inflation. (And don’t give me a spidy link with a mat that has a higher price now because that is not how it works!)

It is true that the first two years saw a huge spike but that is logical. Also Flippers can’t drive the price up, if any they will drive it down in the long run as the gap will close and they have to move on.

It does put existing money in the hands of fewer people. But since you cannot really have a monopoly in this game it does not matter. Patience is the key, just place sell order then selling your stuff to the flippers if you are mad about it.

Firelysm.4967:

I’m not even dungeon runner, but i feel sorry for those that love doing dungeons, and still getting rewarded for it, but now they will be left out. What is happening right now is, that dungeons will get a decent nerf so that HoT content(NEW)¸will be more rewarded then Core (OLD) content.

But i wonder, why are Trading Post flippers still allowed to flip without punishment? Those people control the economy, and those people don’t even play the game for real. I’m not saying how people should play the game, but this type of playing is killing the game economy and gaming experience is suffering because ArenaNet is allowing this!

MY SOLUTION:
Every item should become account bound once you purchase them, lets kill trade post flipping and fix the economy and with that GAMING EXPERIENCE!!!

Post your opinion how to stop this game breaking feature!

EDIT:
2ND SOLUTION:

• each item has properties as buy, sell, ID, texture, animation, type, rarity and more
  How to do it?
• add boolean (property that has state 0 and 1)to above already existing properties
• 0 means item was never sold on TP yet, 1 means item was sold already at least 1x
• If item was sold at least 1x, listing fee would be 66% if you try to resell it.
  This solution is better because those that would try to resell items would lost a lot of gold, and TP flipping would not be viable any more, but those who want to buy and give to friends/guildies/randoms can still do that.

I’m not fond of the news that dungeon rewards will be nerfed. But flipping doesn’t bring any new items into the game, it just moves existing items/wealth around between players, and in the process removes at least 15% of the value of the item from the game — twice. Because with flipping the item is sold not just once, but twice. At least. That keeps inflation in check for the rest of us.

Halan.7931:

They don’t do anything useful, just stand between real seller (who gathered the materials or items) and real buyer (who will use the them)

A “real buyer” who is using buy orders to buy from “real sellers” is not buying from a flipper.

Lazy people who are not using sell or buy orders are buying from flippers.
But they profit from flippers. Flipping closes the gap between sell orders and buy orders. For example: an item is bought for 10 copper and sold for 20. A flipper will buy it for 11 copper and sell it for 19. A farmer who sells directly to buyers will now get more money for his stuff. A buyer has to pay a lower price.

Logos.1306:

Firelysm.4967:

@Logos.1306

Logos you simply don’t understand that most of flippers don’t even lose money, the most money lost is by people who actually try to buy items that they need! And the money sink doesn’t even matter if small and big people pay taxes with same rate.

Simple as that.

wrong. the seller pay tax not the buyier. So when flippers sell something they pay tax everytime. So if they sell lets say thousands of materials for thousands of gold they pay both TP taxes thats 15% of that thousands gold being destroyed. They are loosing if for the sake of better economy (less inflation). Of course they are making lots on money anyway. But well, so what?
I see you are one of these people who would want to tax rich people in reall life ?
Everytime there is an voting, election or something, politicians promise that they will make bigger taxes for rich people so poor majority of socienty will vote on them. Because they are just jealous of their money.
You know what rich people then say when they hear that? They say “why you are punish us for our success?”
So you want to punish flippers because they are making money better then other players? why?

Again I am not flipper, and I am not rich, I have only 1 legendary, rich players have 3 or more, or all of them.

But what are you when you try to first sell item buyer or seller?
And what does flipper do when they try to resell things? Buy at low price right?
On the end we all pay THE TAX because you lose gold to flipper, and they lose YOUR money to the NPC, on the end YOU are the one losing not flippers.

I hope this is clear to you and that’s what the purpose of this topic is, they rather use other people, then play the game.

Forget flippers, they need to nerf ToT farming, SW farming, and every other type of boring farm that pumps way more money into the game than dungeons ever will. Mark my works, this is anet trying to kill dungeons without outright removing them because they know their new content sucks and are afraid that dungeons (even in their current kitten state) will still look good after people notice that.

while we are at it. Let’s remove drops from the games, give no rewards for karma, xp, or gold after event completion, and only award unique map/event currencies that are tradeable for items which are account bound.

Wait a minute isn’t that what they did with that Mordem event last month? Maybe this isn’t kitten sarcastic/unrealistic as it sounds?

Wanze.8410:

The biggest problem i see with your suggestions of account bound items after tp purchase or raising its sales tax after being traded once:
It will have huge implementation costs. They would need to make a 2nd item ID for every item to note if its tradeable or not. That will also mean, that those items wont stack anymore, so people will complain about lack of storage space.
For many item groups, this chance will have little effect anyways. Anything that can be used in crafting, forging, be salvaged or can be altered in other ways (for example a lootbag that gets opened) can just be bought on the tp, altered and sold again.

I make a great deal of profit just by opening lootbags, salvaging, crafting and forging and i guess, i would still be able to make significantly more profit than in other areas of the game, even without flipping and speculating. So your proposed change isnt really a great solution to your perceived problem, it would create unconvenience to a majority of players that have to deal with lack of storage space now and therefore in my eyes wouldnt warrant the implementation costs.

Wrong, depends how creative are you, but from my programming experience this could be done fairly easy. You just have to add one attribute to data base which doesnt even effect existing items. Once you have sold items on TP they would be flag “Been on Trading Post”, you simply stack them as usual, but once you try to sell them you can choose which to sell first, implementation can be made with one simple CHECK box, “Sell spoiled items”. As a buyer it doesn’t even matter? Why? Because once you buy it you know that item will become spoiled and will be worthless to sell again.

And this implementation would take no time to implement.
Update TP:
http://prntscr.com/8qu859
Update inventory:
http://prntscr.com/8qud5l

You make great deal of profit just by opening lootbags, u can still do that because items contained wouldn’t be marked as spoiled (been on trading post). This is in no mean flipping it’s playing a game, and if you enjoy playing crafting game, i’m fine with it, it’s part of the game, but flipping is not.

Dinks.2478:

Forget flippers, they need to nerf ToT farming, SW farming, and every other type of boring farm that pumps way more money into the game than dungeons ever will. Mark my works, this is anet trying to kill dungeons without outright removing them because they know their new content sucks and are afraid that dungeons (even in their current kitten state) will still look good after people notice that.

By ToT farming and SW you play the game, by flipping you don’t.
Flipping is something as side effect of bad model making of trading post.
If people want to play economy simulator, they can clearly instead of playing the game, play the “REAL GAME” go work for lets say 1 week, and use that money for real stock breaking.

And man, i think i should agree on your argument, i trully the same, that anet is doing this just because they made “average” content and nothing to special to make us busy for “next 3 years”, that’s probably why they are breaking the existing dungeons.

But on the other hand, i wish that dungeons would become 100X HARDER and they would make them open world… like a real cave, Just like SW labyrinth, but more epic underground, or above the sky thingy.

Trinnitty.8256:

I have often thought about account bound TP purchases. I think I kinda agree. I get tired of TP flippers buying up things just to resell them at higher prices. I’m talking the buying up large quantities of item to make them rarer and thus driving up the price by slowly releasing their stock back into the tp.

This practice removes money from the game, ultimately bringing the price down.

Contrary to that dungeon grinding floods the economy with money, increasing the maximum price ceiling for items and increasing gem-cost.